Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 12 topics

Monday, July 30, 2007

25 new messages in 12 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why I hate Washington Mutual (a rant)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/02d22dacefd6cc05?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 30 2007 4:02 am
From: root

The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Damn, you really remember things, don't you? Actually, looking back at
> pictures of me taken around that time, I really wasn't all that bad-looking!
> Warning: we don't appreciate what we have until we don't have it any more.
>

You're good looking now. I appreciate what I have right now.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Anti-Tax guys won -- round 2
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b15b2290838aeb55?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 30 2007 5:45 am
From: "Tockk"

"Chloe" <justsayno@spam.com> wrote in message
news:46ac6ed2$0$20619$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> "Tockk" <tock1@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:XZUqi.29924$2v1.22147@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net...
>> I've done some more digging around, and it looks like there might
>> actually be something to all this anti-income tax business. This link
>> is to a video (almost 2 hours long) that I found quite curious.
>> http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...80303867390173
>>
>>
>> But then, I found this site:
>> http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#income
>> which seems to answer many of the issues raised by the video. But then,
>> I'm no lawyer, so maybe it does, maybe it doesn't . . . I dunno . . .
>>
>>
>> What do y'all think about this? I can't tell if the anti-tax guys are
>> crackpots or not, or if the IRS is the Great Satan.
>
> Mull this over. What would happen if--legal or not--everyone suddenly quit
> paying income tax?

Well, a lot of stuff would have to be paid for by each individual state,
like highway construction, and social services, etc. It's not like the
federal government would suddenly go bankrupt; I'm sure they have lots of
other sources of income.

== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 30 2007 5:52 am
From: "Tockk"

"Don K" <dk@dont_bother_me.com> wrote
>
> Personally I don't have a dog in this fight, so I haven't bothered to
> watch.
> A casual google indicates that the issue revolves around claims that
> the 16th Amendment wasn't properly ratified and so isn't part of the
> Constitution.

Ya, that's one aspect of things. I don't think that's a good reason to
dispute the veracity of the 16th Amendment, because the question there
centers over whether or not Ohio was officially a state when they were
admitted into the Union (1803?) -- several other states approved the 16th
after Ohio, so there were plenty of states to approve it . . .

The big question seems to center around Supreme Court rulings regarding the
Income Tax before and after the 16th Amendment was approved. I haven't had
time to sift through everything, but it seems to me that the anti-tax people
may not be taking the later Supreme Court rulings into account . . . When I
get a chance I'll dig through it all, and find out what's what. Today,
though, I gotta run down to Austin and buy me a bunch of bottles -- looks
like I'm going into the aftershave/cologne/hairtonic business . . .

L8ter . . .

== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 30 2007 6:14 am
From: clams casino

Chloe wrote:

>Mull this over. What would happen if--legal or not--everyone suddenly quit
>paying income tax?
>
>
>
>
Guess George would have to stop his war in Iraq (about 50-60% of Federal
income goes to military / national security), the airports would be shut
down, China could send any quality product into the US, state taxes
would increase significantly, public schools would lose significant
levels of funding, farmers and many businesses would have to give up
significant subsidies / welfare that would result in increased prices, etc

== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 30 2007 7:31 am
From: Zuke

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007, Tockk wrote:

> I've done some more digging around, and it looks like there might actually
> be something to all this anti-income tax business. This link is to a

Yeah there is normally something to it--about 2-4 years in a Federal
pen. That is if they don't just show up at your house and start
shooting.

There was a guy I knew who tried this bunk and ended up locked up.

I read a book not too long ago by an IRS collection agent about his
experiences. It was
a pretty good read. Can't remember the title though.

== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 30 2007 8:23 am
From: "Chloe"

"Tockk" <tock1@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:x3lri.264$rG7.75@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...
>
> "Chloe" <justsayno@spam.com> wrote in message
> news:46ac6ed2$0$20619$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> "Tockk" <tock1@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>> news:XZUqi.29924$2v1.22147@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net...
>>> I've done some more digging around, and it looks like there might
>>> actually be something to all this anti-income tax business. This link
>>> is to a video (almost 2 hours long) that I found quite curious.
>>> http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...80303867390173
>>>
>>>
>>> But then, I found this site:
>>> http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#income
>>> which seems to answer many of the issues raised by the video. But then,
>>> I'm no lawyer, so maybe it does, maybe it doesn't . . . I dunno . . .
>>>
>>>
>>> What do y'all think about this? I can't tell if the anti-tax guys are
>>> crackpots or not, or if the IRS is the Great Satan.
>>
>> Mull this over. What would happen if--legal or not--everyone suddenly
>> quit paying income tax?
>
> Well, a lot of stuff would have to be paid for by each individual state,
> like highway construction, and social services, etc. It's not like the
> federal government would suddenly go bankrupt; I'm sure they have lots of
> other sources of income.

According to the nonpartisan, nonprofit Urban Institute, about 80 percent of
the federal government's revenue comes from individual income and payroll
taxes. Of the other 20 percent, about 2/3 comes from corporate income tax.
So, yeah, it *is* like the federal government would suddenly go bankrupt.

So, no big deal, you say, other than we wouldn't be paying for a bunch of
fraud, waste and pointless "wars on terror" like we are now?
Consider--according to the same source--that some 60 percent of federal
outlays go for entitlements like Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid,
plus other contractual obligations and interest. You think all the people
receiving benefits would just shrug, suck it up, and manage somehow?

Of course we could shift some of these programs to the states--but the money
for them would still have to come from somewhere. The point of my post was
that suddenly doing away with the federal income tax, regardless of
legality, simply isn't practical. And if you think it's ever going to
happen--at least on some kind of legal ground--you probably believe in the
Tooth Fairy's going to come to your house tomorrow night and leave you a
basket of Easter eggs, too.

== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 30 2007 8:38 am
From: Dennis

On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 11:23:00 -0400, "Chloe" <justsayno@spam.com>
wrote:

>"Tockk" <tock1@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>news:x3lri.264$rG7.75@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>
>> "Chloe" <justsayno@spam.com> wrote in message
>> news:46ac6ed2$0$20619$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>> "Tockk" <tock1@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>>> news:XZUqi.29924$2v1.22147@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net...
>>>> I've done some more digging around, and it looks like there might
>>>> actually be something to all this anti-income tax business. This link
>>>> is to a video (almost 2 hours long) that I found quite curious.
>>>> http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...80303867390173
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But then, I found this site:
>>>> http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#income
>>>> which seems to answer many of the issues raised by the video. But then,
>>>> I'm no lawyer, so maybe it does, maybe it doesn't . . . I dunno . . .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What do y'all think about this? I can't tell if the anti-tax guys are
>>>> crackpots or not, or if the IRS is the Great Satan.
>>>
>>> Mull this over. What would happen if--legal or not--everyone suddenly
>>> quit paying income tax?
>>
>> Well, a lot of stuff would have to be paid for by each individual state,
>> like highway construction, and social services, etc. It's not like the
>> federal government would suddenly go bankrupt; I'm sure they have lots of
>> other sources of income.
>
>According to the nonpartisan, nonprofit Urban Institute, about 80 percent of
>the federal government's revenue comes from individual income and payroll
>taxes. Of the other 20 percent, about 2/3 comes from corporate income tax.
>So, yeah, it *is* like the federal government would suddenly go bankrupt.
>
>So, no big deal, you say, other than we wouldn't be paying for a bunch of
>fraud, waste and pointless "wars on terror" like we are now?
>Consider--according to the same source--that some 60 percent of federal
>outlays go for entitlements like Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid,
>plus other contractual obligations and interest. You think all the people
>receiving benefits would just shrug, suck it up, and manage somehow?
>
>Of course we could shift some of these programs to the states--but the money
>for them would still have to come from somewhere. The point of my post was
>that suddenly doing away with the federal income tax, regardless of
>legality, simply isn't practical. And if you think it's ever going to
>happen--at least on some kind of legal ground--you probably believe in the
>Tooth Fairy's going to come to your house tomorrow night and leave you a
>basket of Easter eggs, too.
>

I understand what you're saying, but I have never understood what
value is added to my tax money by having it leave my state, go to
Washington DC and then come back to my state. It seems like it would
be much more efficient to handle the accounting at a more local level.
(Yes, I realize that that would require some amount of growth of state
government.)

Dennis (evil)
--
What the government gives, it must first take.

== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 30 2007 9:12 am
From: clams casino

Dennis wrote:

>>
>>
>>
>
>I understand what you're saying, but I have never understood what
>value is added to my tax money by having it leave my state, go to
>Washington DC and then come back to my state.
>

Most of the money that gets returned to states (in the widely published
statistics) is for the military / homeland security. States with a
high military presence (bases, R&D contracts, etc) tend to get more back
from the government than they send to the federal government.

Next highest return is probably for schools & roads.

== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 30 2007 9:37 am
From: Dennis

On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 12:12:51 -0400, clams casino
<PeterGriffin@drunkin-clam.com> wrote:

>Dennis wrote:
>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I understand what you're saying, but I have never understood what
>>value is added to my tax money by having it leave my state, go to
>>Washington DC and then come back to my state.
>>
>
>Most of the money that gets returned to states (in the widely published
>statistics) is for the military / homeland security. States with a
>high military presence (bases, R&D contracts, etc) tend to get more back
>from the government than they send to the federal government.
>
> Next highest return is probably for schools & roads.

So what is the value added by the round trip for this money?
Dennis (evil)
--
What the government gives, it must first take.

== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 30 2007 10:04 am
From: "Chloe"

"Dennis" <dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:271sa31s4qg56vk3lstut36aqroq9p02n3@4ax.com...

>
> I understand what you're saying, but I have never understood what
> value is added to my tax money by having it leave my state, go to
> Washington DC and then come back to my state. It seems like it would
> be much more efficient to handle the accounting at a more local level.
> (Yes, I realize that that would require some amount of growth of state
> government.)

I couldn't agree with you more. I favor handling the work of government on
the "lowest" level possible, i.e., let local governments do as much as they
reasonably can, then state governments, only then the federal government.
Not only is it often more cost-effective, the smaller the unit of
government, the greater likelihood of accountability to the citizens.

Unfortunately, once the function and dollars make it up to the next higher
level, it's pretty much impossible to get it back.

== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 30 2007 10:06 am
From: "Chloe"

"clams casino" <PeterGriffin@drunkin-clam.com> wrote in message
news:46ori.19737$GO6.3673@newsfe21.lga...
> Dennis wrote:
>>
>>I understand what you're saying, but I have never understood what
>>value is added to my tax money by having it leave my state, go to
>>Washington DC and then come back to my state.
>
> Most of the money that gets returned to states (in the widely published
> statistics) is for the military / homeland security. States with a high
> military presence (bases, R&D contracts, etc) tend to get more back from
> the government than they send to the federal government.
>
> Next highest return is probably for schools & roads.

If you say so--but as Dennis inquires, where's the value added? Interesting
couple of examples you cite: IMO both education and highway construction can
be handled perfectly well on the state level. What's the federal government
doing involved in either, except perhaps in a limited, quality-control kind
of way?

== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 30 2007 11:03 am
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 13:06:34 -0400, "Chloe" <justsayno@spam.com>
wrote:

>If you say so--but as Dennis inquires, where's the value added? Interesting
>couple of examples you cite: IMO both education and highway construction can
>be handled perfectly well on the state level. What's the federal government
>doing involved in either, except perhaps in a limited, quality-control kind
>of way?
>
Highway construction? Interstate commerce and defense. Eisenhower
knew the importance of the autobahn. Before the interstates, the
Federal govt was deeply involved in developing railroads for similar
reasons, and in post roads before that. If you've ever been through
Louisiana, you know that not all states can handle roadbuilding.

Education also relates to a basic ability to read/write/follow orders,
which is needed for any militia or military. Again, certain states
<cough Florida cough> were so mired down in teacher's unions and graft
that the kids being shat out were a detriment to the country. Bush's
"no child left behind" is probably his only positive program or claim
to greatness. For all its faults, most of the moaning is coming from
people who never should have been allowed to teach in the first place.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Say, what happened to...
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/42c30428ffd84afe?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 30 2007 7:35 am
From: Parallax

Gordon wrote:
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in news:5h26amF3ifudhU1
> @mid.individual.net:
>
>> Gordon <gonzo@alltomyself.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The frugal sex guy? I havn't seen him around
>>> here in a while. Did he finally get arrested??
>> Nar, wanked himself blind and cant read the group anymore.
>>
>>
>>
>
> LOL: Too funny, but probably true.

I was thinking if he did get arrested, he may have found the most frugal
sex of all (as unpleasant as it may be).

Replace '???????' with 'hotmail' to e-mail me.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal Bicycle Thread
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d41b1df9b2f5565b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 30 2007 7:40 am
From: Zuke

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007, Skyblue wrote:

> This thread comes with approx 3k investment in bicycles/related stuff
> and a lot of time learning things. By reading all the links above,
> several things are greatly simplified for those following this path.
> Bicycles and frugality seems greatly undermined in the frugal
> community, no solid comprehensive articles exist in this regard. This
> thread is an attempt about getting a frugal bicycle and the savings it
> has on our lives. I wanted to do this thread for a long time and have
> been dealying it. Will slowly do this piece by piece based on the
> experience I have so far.
>
> By just having a bicycle instead of a car, one can save between 20K to
> 40K in two years (this is just my rough estimate). Moreover, there are
> several other advantages to cycling as discussed here:
> http://community.stretcher.com/forums/t/807.aspx
>
> In the Book Divorce your Car, the Author describes in great detail the
> enormous savings of using a bicycle as opposed to a Car, in the few
> instances that a car is needed, one can rent a Can. This situation

Like the few times it rains or dips below 40 degrees during the year?

Stay tuned for my thread on how you can save money by never leaving
your house.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 30 2007 10:05 am
From: Cindy Hamilton

On Jul 30, 10:40 am, Zuke <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Jul 2007, Skyblue wrote:
> > This thread comes with approx 3k investment in bicycles/related stuff
> > and a lot of time learning things. By reading all the links above,
> > several things are greatly simplified for those following this path.
> > Bicycles and frugality seems greatly undermined in the frugal
> > community, no solid comprehensive articles exist in this regard. This
> > thread is an attempt about getting a frugal bicycle and the savings it
> > has on our lives. I wanted to do this thread for a long time and have
> > been dealying it. Will slowly do this piece by piece based on the
> > experience I have so far.
>
> > By just having a bicycle instead of a car, one can save between 20K to
> > 40K in two years (this is just my rough estimate). Moreover, there are
> > several other advantages to cycling as discussed here:
> >http://community.stretcher.com/forums/t/807.aspx
>
> > In the Book Divorce your Car, the Author describes in great detail the
> > enormous savings of using a bicycle as opposed to a Car, in the few
> > instances that a car is needed, one can rent a Can. This situation
>
> Like the few times it rains or dips below 40 degrees during the year?

Or, in my neck of the woods, the weeks on end when you'd be riding
through a slushy mix of snow, water and salt, having it sprayed all
over you by trucks doing 60 in a 45 mph zone, on a road with no
shoulders but with potholes the diameter of a bicycle wheel? And of
course there are those weeks when the salty slush freezes because
we never see temperatures above 20.

Honestly, anybody who thinks a bicycle commute is feasible for
everyone is welcome to try my 5-mile commute. In February.

Cindy Hamilton

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Swap Anything Online for FREE!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/04984ce59b5c8fe3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 30 2007 8:26 am
From: Phil

Hey frugral users, want to swap anything for free... the E-Bay style?

The site is loaded with alot of things to swap for. You'll save alot
of money.

http://www.swaptreasures.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ?? Why
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/51f43ffffb99ddf7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 30 2007 8:52 am
From: Seerialmom

On Jul 29, 1:43 pm, Derald <der...@invalid.net> wrote:
> do some folks seem to believe that the retail price of an item when new has some
> relationship to its secondhand price?

Yes. That's why I won't pay more than half of what the retail price
was for a "used" item...and at garage sales less than half. But that
only applies to relatively new items; obsolete technology, for
example...you may have to pay me to take it. Forget that you paid
$3G's for a laptop in 2000...it's work $50 or less now.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How long to build a house from Craigslist "free" materials?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/009019a2521ac2e0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 30 2007 8:57 am
From: Seerialmom

I've been pondering this recently. I'm just wondering...let's say you
inherited an acre of land, free and clear. Presuming it already has
plumbing/sewer/electrical coming to it...how long it might take to
build a house out of just craiglist 'free" items. I often seen
construction/remodel leftovers. I just wish I had a free acre of land
to test my idea.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Photo scanning service?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9f598948386130fc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 30 2007 8:58 am
From: me@privacy.net

I have abt 100 family photos of various shapes and
sizes (old) that Id like to have scanned and digitized

I don't have the time or equip to do myself.

Any advise on services that can do this?

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 30 2007 10:29 am
From: "Jessica V."

On Jul 30, 11:58 am, m...@privacy.net wrote:
> I have abt 100 family photos of various shapes and
> sizes (old) that Id like to have scanned and digitized
>
> I don't have the time or equip to do myself.
>
> Any advise on services that can do this?

Check with the local mom & pop camera store and see if it's a service
they do on site or if there is anyone nearby who performs scanning
service at their location, not mailed off to who knows where. I'd be
very hesitant to send them off for fear that they'd be lost. Friends
and relatives who are photo buffs or family historians, might have the
equipment to do the job and be willing to do it for a reasonable
price.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Backhoe or dozer rental
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/62c19fdb9643f800?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 30 2007 9:03 am
From: Dennis

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 17:18:12 -0400, hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:

>On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 10:41:03 -0700, Dennis <dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Have you ever operated this type of equipment? It could take some
>>time to get the hang of it -- it's not as easy as some of the pros
>>make it look (especially grading). I used to do excavation work 30
>>years ago as a summer job during college. It takes me a while to "get
>>back in the saddle" each time I decide to play in the dirt. It is
>>kind of fun, though. Big boys with big toys, and all...
>
>Nah, haven't used anything like that, but I figure that if I rent for
>a week I'll have time to learn, and still save beaucoup bucks. I tend
>to err on the conservative side with powerful equipment.

That's pretty much how I learned, except it was on someone else's
dime. Looking back with my (more or less) adult perspective, I am
amazed that my boss told a green 20-year-old kid to just jump on a
big, powerful, expensive machine and go to it. Somehow I avoided
killing anyone or doing any major damage (but it was close a few times
:-).

If you have a choice, go for the all hydrostatic drive machines
(probably most rental equipment will be anyway). Much easier. My own
preference is for the John Deere "joystick" type hydraulic controls
over the multi-lever ones used by Case, but YMMV.

Dennis (evil)
--
The honest man is the one who realizes that he cannot
consume more, in his lifetime, than he produces.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Watch Satellite Channels on your PC - FREE!

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/63f8970760365f15?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 30 2007 9:10 am
From: Y Waugh

The New Way To Enjoy Satellite TV on your PC!

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music, shopping and much, much more!

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PC!

For More Details: http://tvonpc.5gbfree.com/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Windows Mobile 6 Pro Video 1st Look
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8db48c09e6037a92?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 30 2007 10:02 am
From: Nutrition.tips@gmail.com

Windows Mobile 6 Pro Video 1st Look
http://mobilephone-guide.blogspot.com/2007/07/windows-mobile-6-pro-video-1st-look.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How does one Reduce or Suspend thier Child Support
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ec155f2ae812643f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 30 2007 10:13 am
From: John C

This question is blazing across America and the people of all walks of
life and child support situation are reading the best selling Book:

"The Child Support Battle" by John Christopher

Learn to Reduce or Suspend Child Support

Get the Book that every father should have. Know what the experts
know about Child Su pport Reductions.

"The Child Support Battle", Methods to Reduce or Suspend and Child
Support is Now available in all Major Book Stores. Click on the
Amazon.com link to learn more.

The Child Support Battle - Download the E-Book from www.FatherHelp.com

Go to Your Local Book Store and ask for the "The Child Support Battle"
by John Christopher or go to Amazon.com and type in "The Child Support
Battle".

The Child Support Battle Volume 2 ---Coming Soon...

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 30 2007 10:34 am
From: "ChairMan"

In news:1185815611.102601.319970@z24g2000prh.googlegroups.com,
John C <fatherchildinfo@yahoo.com>spewed forth:
> This question is blazing across America and the people of all walks of
> life and child support situation are reading the best selling Book:
>
> "The Child Support Battle" by John Christopher
>
> Learn to Reduce or Suspend Child Support
>
> Get the Book that every father should have. Know what the experts
> know about Child Su pport Reductions.
>
> "The Child Support Battle", Methods to Reduce or Suspend and Child
> Support is Now available in all Major Book Stores. Click on the
> Amazon.com link to learn more.
>
> The Child Support Battle - Download the E-Book from www.FatherHelp.com
>
> Go to Your Local Book Store and ask for the "The Child Support Battle"
> by John Christopher or go to Amazon.com and type in "The Child Support
> Battle".
>
> The Child Support Battle Volume 2 ---Coming Soon...

and if can't or won't support what you produce, keep it it your damn pants
or STFU

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Frugal Living

Blog Archive

Monday, July 30, 2007

25 new messages in 12 topics - digest

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