http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en
misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* Water Sprinkler on hot roof - 6 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cd33b11ba1e1b1ff?hl=en
* Keeping dust down on a dusty road. - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/393453a87e8cc967?hl=en
* Best Webcam/Microphone Combination? - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2051e096377ae580?hl=en
* How often do you take the family out to dinner? - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3a8c926d1dcbd777?hl=en
* Free air conditioning? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/47bf7003402dd31a?hl=en
* PrinterAnywhere - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9b7d6a43e8b172ff?hl=en
* Antique 1912-1949 Porcelain teapot 528 chinaware 400 Website invitation
visit - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/bbb98196e7c5a7f2?hl=en
* Just a $5 investment brings fast returns - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7ba6c7371f27f2d3?hl=en
* Rod Speed - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/70b0509dfad58127?hl=en
* Our $500 1969 van Canadian adventure - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e2fdae77d25d735f?hl=en
* Cleaners shrunk a Lambswool sweater - How can I stretch a it out 1 inch all
the way around - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ef6d257ac1a2dc4a?hl=en
* Who loves ya, Rush? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/50fc4bce846b7dea?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Water Sprinkler on hot roof
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cd33b11ba1e1b1ff?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 3:29 pm
From: Tony Miklos
Rod Speed wrote:
> Tony Miklos <tonymiklos@planetc.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm wondering if anyone out there has tried this,
>
> Yep, hordes have.
>
>> how it worked to help cool the building,
>
> Its better than nothing, but not as good as real air conditioning. Much cheaper tho.
The thing is that I'm not very frugal when summer comes. My bedroom is
at about 66* and the rest of the house 70 - 74*. I'm looking for a way
to make the A/C not have to run as much.
The way I cool is mostly from an little 8k btu window rattler in the
bedroom window. That can run day and night for less than $50/month. I
have central A/C but it's old and costs a lot to run. Part of its
inefficiency is because I don't use about 1/3 of the house and have the
vents closed. I then set the A/C fan speed down one notch since there
are less vents open. The good part is that is also gives me added
dehumidification, and I love it arid! Anyway I set the central at about
76* and leave the bedroom door open. The little window unit with the
door open does a good job up to about 85* outside. The last couple
weeks we have been in a 90-97* heat wave so the central does run on and
off quite a bit.
>> and especially curious how to make it automatic.
>
> Completely trivial to do that. The usual thermostat switches
> a solenoid valve and that controls the water to the sprinkler.
> You can do it with what you can buy in any decent store.
I didn't want to use a thermostat because if I mount it in the attic, it
will respond too slow. I suppose I could figure out a way to put it on
the roof in such a manner that the sprinkler doesn't turn itself off
again in the first pass. From my observations, it may work well if it
just used a timer and turned on for 1 minute every 20 minutes.
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== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 3:53 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
Tony Miklos <tonymiklos@planetc.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Tony Miklos <tonymiklos@planetc.com> wrote
>>> I'm wondering if anyone out there has tried this,
>> Yep, hordes have.
>>> how it worked to help cool the building,
>> Its better than nothing, but not as good as real air conditioning.
>> Much cheaper tho.
> The thing is that I'm not very frugal when summer comes. My bedroom is at about 66* and the rest
> of the house 70 - 74*. I'm looking for a way to make the A/C not have to run as much.
A sprinkler will only help if the roof isnt well insulated. Wont make any difference if it is.
> The way I cool is mostly from an little 8k btu window rattler in the
> bedroom window. That can run day and night for less than $50/month. I have central A/C but it's
> old and costs a lot to run. Part of its inefficiency is because I don't use about 1/3 of the
> house and have the vents closed. I then set the A/C fan speed down one notch since there are less
> vents open. The good part is that is also gives me added dehumidification, and I love it arid!
> Anyway I set the central at about 76* and leave the bedroom door open. The little window unit
> with the door open does a good job up to about 85* outside. The last couple weeks we have been in
> a 90-97* heat wave so the central does run on and off quite a bit.
See above.
>>> and especially curious how to make it automatic.
>> Completely trivial to do that. The usual thermostat switches
>> a solenoid valve and that controls the water to the sprinkler.
>> You can do it with what you can buy in any decent store.
> I didn't want to use a thermostat because if I mount it in the attic,
> it will respond too slow. I suppose I could figure out a way to put it
> on the roof in such a manner that the sprinkler doesn't turn itself off
> again in the first pass. From my observations, it may work well if it
> just used a timer and turned on for 1 minute every 20 minutes.
It'll only make any real difference if the roof/attic isnt insulated.
== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 4:10 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com
On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 15:47:14 -0400, Tony Miklos
<tonymiklos@planetc.com> wrote:
>I'm wondering if anyone out there has tried this, how it worked to help
>cool the building, and especially curious how to make it automatic.
>
>Thanks,
>Tony
Yes, I did it in south Florida. It does help cool the building, but
insulation will do a better job. My primary reason for doing it was
to increase the life expectancy of the asphalt shingles. Shingles
have three main routes to failure - Degradation from UV radiation,
outgassing from excess heat, and expansion contraction cycles creating
cracks. To a lesser extent, mold can be an issue.
Use a single hose end impulse sprinkler and hook the hose to a
programmable water timer. The one I had allowed four sprinkling
events per day. 10 AM, Noon, 2 PM 4 PM 6:30 PM worked for me,
watering for about 15 minutes or less each time. It really was quite
simple to set up. You will need to put a single screw in the base of
the sprinkler to hold it in position. Is it cost effective for
cooling? Marginally, but probably a wash when you pay for the hose,
timer, sprinkler, and water. However... an extra couple of years
life on a roof is a good savings.
You can search the archives for more details on what I did.
== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 5:34 pm
From: Seerialmom
On Aug 17, 12:42 pm, "Bob's Backfire Burrito"
<BLAMP...@pullmyfinger.org> wrote:
> "Tony Miklos" <tonymik...@planetc.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1187379093_1473@sp12lax.superfeed.net...
>
> > I'm wondering if anyone out there has tried this, how it worked to help
> > cool the building, and especially curious how to make it automatic.
>
> > Thanks,
> > Tony
>
> It does NOT work well. It wont pull the heat out of the roof, the Infrared
> energy from the sun heats the water before it can run off with the heat it
> absorbed.
> Besides that, it wastes water,and makes the ground around the place a soggy
> mess.
> Now if you REALLY want to cool the house, mount solar panels about 4 inches
> above the roof, covering the entire roof with shade. The 4 " gap allows air
> to
> flow between the panels, cooling them and the roof.
> Use the power generated by the panels to run the power meter backwards. The
> money saved by this can be spent on running the A/C when you really need it.
> Cover the windows with "Solarscreens". They are perforated metal covers that
> you can see thru, but reflect a lot of the energy so it doesnt heat the
> windows more
> than the outside airtemp.
>
> There are MANY good ideas, the water trick is not one of them....
I like the idea of the elevated solar panels; do any of the companies
actually install them that way? I've invented (in my mind of course)
similar contraptions for the roof like "shades" you could raise to
allow the air flow and shade.
But I agree that sprinkler on the roof would do what you said plus
make the area around the house more humid as well. The bright side
would be if there was a forest fire your house wouldn't burn :)
== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 6:45 pm
From: "Tockk"
"Tony Miklos" <tonymiklos@planetc.com> wrote in message
news:1187379093_1473@sp12lax.superfeed.net...
> I'm wondering if anyone out there has tried this, how it worked to help
> cool the building, and especially curious how to make it automatic.
A friend of mine tried this . . . he bought a gizmo that you attached to a
garden hose, and it ran on the roof and had several smaller hoses extending
from it that dripped water on to the hot roof. He couldn't detect any
difference, but it eventually damaged his shingles where the water dripped.
No idea why.
== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 7:27 pm
From: timeOday
Tockk wrote:
> "Tony Miklos" <tonymiklos@planetc.com> wrote in message
> news:1187379093_1473@sp12lax.superfeed.net...
>
>>I'm wondering if anyone out there has tried this, how it worked to help
>>cool the building, and especially curious how to make it automatic.
>
>
>
> A friend of mine tried this . . . he bought a gizmo that you attached to a
> garden hose, and it ran on the roof and had several smaller hoses extending
> from it that dripped water on to the hot roof. He couldn't detect any
> difference, but it eventually damaged his shingles where the water dripped.
> No idea why.
I would also worry about hard water stains, a problem often created by
leaky swamp coolers. They can be quite unsightly.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Keeping dust down on a dusty road.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/393453a87e8cc967?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 3:56 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
Usenet2007@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG wrote
> georgek@humboldt1.com wrote
>> Our neighbor used to just get out a sprayer and apply
>> old motor oil. Sure keeps the dust down in the summer.
> Used motor oil is seriously carcinogenic.
No it isnt.
> I wouldn't want to have any more contact than it takes
> to change it in a car. And certainly not sprayed around.
Just a neurotic fear.
> Also, it may be a crime in your area - improper disposal of hazardous waste.
It isnt hazardous waste.
== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 4:52 pm
From: George
Rod Speed wrote:
> Usenet2007@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG wrote
>> georgek@humboldt1.com wrote
>
>>> Our neighbor used to just get out a sprayer and apply
>>> old motor oil. Sure keeps the dust down in the summer.
>
>> Used motor oil is seriously carcinogenic.
>
> No it isnt.
Your country seems to think so:
http://www.sustainability.vic.gov.au/www/html/1810-used-motor-oil-in-our-environment.asp
>
>> I wouldn't want to have any more contact than it takes
>> to change it in a car. And certainly not sprayed around.
>
> Just a neurotic fear.
>
>> Also, it may be a crime in your area - improper disposal of hazardous waste.
>
> It isnt hazardous waste.
>
>
== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 4:56 pm
From: clams casino
George wrote:
> Rod Speed wrote:
>
>> Usenet2007@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG wrote
>>
>>> georgek@humboldt1.com wrote
>>
>>
>>>> Our neighbor used to just get out a sprayer and apply
>>>> old motor oil. Sure keeps the dust down in the summer.
>>>
>>
>>> Used motor oil is seriously carcinogenic.
>>
>>
>> No it isnt.
>
>
> Your country seems to think so:
>
> http://www.sustainability.vic.gov.au/www/html/1810-used-motor-oil-in-our-environment.asp
>
>
Now you did it. You're confusing Rod with facts. He'll be walking in
circles for a week.
== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 7:19 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Usenet2007@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG wrote
>>> georgek@humboldt1.com wrote
>>>> Our neighbor used to just get out a sprayer and apply
>>>> old motor oil. Sure keeps the dust down in the summer.
>>> Used motor oil is seriously carcinogenic.
>> No it isnt.
> Your country seems to think so:
> http://www.sustainability.vic.gov.au/www/html/1810-used-motor-oil-in-our-environment.asp
Doesnt say anything like that 'seriously carcinogenic'
claim and even if it did, its just plain wrong on that.
>>> I wouldn't want to have any more contact than it takes
>>> to change it in a car. And certainly not sprayed around.
>> Just a neurotic fear.
>>> Also, it may be a crime in your area - improper disposal of hazardous waste.
>> It isnt hazardous waste.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Best Webcam/Microphone Combination?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2051e096377ae580?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 4:06 pm
From: throwitout
On Aug 16, 10:29 am, Patient Guy <sevisen.adam@gmailDOTHEREcom> wrote:
> Anyone have any idea of the best webcam/microphone to buy for the money?
> Not looking to be extravagant here.
>
> Given today's broadband/cable/DSL speeds and their ability to support "real
> time" two-way connections, I suppose 640 x 480 resolution is the way to go,
> with "microphone support" (whatever that means: don't they all "support"
> microphones?). Don't believe any other bells and whistles are really to be
> considered here.
>
> Personal experiences and knowledgeable opinions gratefully welcome. I am
> separated from spouse and child, who are on other side of planet, and would
> like video chat. Can't be worse than a cheap-per-minute phone connection I
> am using now, which has no video.
>
> I am finding "reviews" (probably paid, eh?) that say that Logitech and
> Creative make the best products. Philips is heavily represented on the
> other side of the planet, although Logitech can be bought, probably under
> different model numbers.
Really they're all pretty much the same. I use a cheap one from a
company called "Ezonics", it actually has surprisingly good video
quality. It doesn't have a built in microphone. A trip to the dollar
store can fix that if need be. I find actually getting a headset works
well because the microphone is positioned near your mouth, which
yields better quality than a mic on the web cam on top of the
computer.
For software I generally use MSN messenger as it's very simple to use.
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 4:10 pm
From: throwitout
On Aug 16, 2:50 pm, Rick <ricka...@rcn.com> wrote:
> Your bigger decision is what software you are going to use for the chat
> sessions. Some cameras may come with only a driver to support the
> camera. Others will come with their own software for chat sessions.
My experience with a lot of hardware is included software is generally
crappy. Why limit yourself to only the crappy voice chat software the
manufacture bundled when the camera can be used with any program?
Personally I use MSN messenger as it's very easy to set up.
Buy a camera at whatever price you want to pay, then use whatever
program you want.
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 5:16 pm
From: Abe
My choices are:
Creative Live! Cam Optia
http://us.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=218&subcategory=219&product=15985
and
Logitech QuickCam Pro 5000
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/webcam_communications/webcams/devices/243&cl=us,en
In my opinion, both strike the optimal balance between
quality/features and price. Either can be had for around $60 online.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: How often do you take the family out to dinner?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3a8c926d1dcbd777?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 4:13 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com
On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 10:55:28 -0700, Dennis <dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 03:05:27 GMT, "Lee K" <lee_keedick@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>><skarkada@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:1187291497.704134.188340@g12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>> Let us just estimate the cost of eating out every day. Let us say it
>>> costs about $25 (including the tip) to eat out every night for a
>>> family of four.
>>
>>!!! $25 for a family of four? Do you eat at McDonald's ALL the time?
>
>My family of 5 had dinner at a local mom'n'pop sitdown cafe last
>night. Four of us ate dinner, my son had already eaten and only had a
>drink. Total tab (minus tip) was US$24.95.
>
>
>Dennis (evil)
DW and I had breakfast of bacon and eggs at a local spot that normally
just serves lunch. Our cost for the two of us was $3.00.
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 4:53 pm
From: Joe
On Aug 16, 4:50 pm, skark...@gmail.com wrote:
> Joe, I didn't really mean to hijack your thread and lead into a
> discussion of a different topic. Hopefully more people will answer
> your particular question.
I don't mind, both topics are of interest to me. I'd appreciate the
people that answer your question at least preface it with how often
they eat out per month
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 7:15 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
Joe <joe5345@gmail.com> wrote
> skark...@gmail.com wrote
>> Joe, I didn't really mean to hijack your thread and
>> lead into a discussion of a different topic. Hopefully
>> more people will answer your particular question.
> I don't mind, both topics are of interest to me. I'd appreciate
> the people that answer your question at least preface it with
> how often they eat out per month
I dont eat out at all in that sense, just due to some event like
the last time when one of the people at work retired and we
had a big pissup since he had been there for 39 years.
I agree with whoever it was that said that I eat better at home
than I do out, and I now have the eating at home down to such
an efficient operation that its actually easier than farting around
going out, so I only really eat out when away from home now.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Free air conditioning?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/47bf7003402dd31a?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 5:13 pm
From: Steve
http://www.instructables.com/id/E20XX17F5FEQ1AA/?ALLSTEPS
http://www.eng.uwaterloo.ca/%7Egmilburn/ac/pete_ac.html
--
The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.
...Flannery O'Connor
==============================================================================
TOPIC: PrinterAnywhere
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9b7d6a43e8b172ff?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 5:22 pm
From: Logan Shaw
AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
> An encrypted version shoots through the 'Net and prints on your buddy's
> printer.
> Turn the idea around and you can share your printer with anyone. It's ideal
> for
> sending confidential docs (the file's encrypted when sent) and unlike
> e-mail,
> it can't be forwarded.
If, when they say, "can't be forwarded" what they mean is that it's
somewhat harder to forward it, then I'll agree. If they actually
mean "can't be forwarded", then they're nuts, and wrong.
- Logan
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Antique 1912-1949 Porcelain teapot 528 chinaware 400 Website invitation
visit
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/bbb98196e7c5a7f2?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 5:41 pm
From: xjx588
Antique 1912-1949 Porcelain teapot 528 chinaware 400 Website
invitation visit
Website http://www.xjx588.com
http://www.xjx588.com/more.asp?name=xjx588&id=14
E-mail xjx_588@tom.com
xjx_588@126.com
City Shengzhou Zhejiang China
Thanks !
Jianxiong Xu
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Just a $5 investment brings fast returns
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7ba6c7371f27f2d3?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 5:57 pm
From: "Alan Parkington"
"c6vega" <c6vega@gmail.com> spammed in message
news:1187316223.917114.27540@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Make $$$ With $5 and Paypal Acct. 2 Easy Steps
>
Yes I'm sure it does bring fast returns.. to you, scumbag
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Rod Speed
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/70b0509dfad58127?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 5:58 pm
From: "Alan Parkington"
"TwoAllBeefPatties" <kwokx2@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1187278140.789453.112940@g12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> Get gold now!
>
Did you mean. "Rod Speed.. got OLD now"
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Our $500 1969 van Canadian adventure
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e2fdae77d25d735f?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 7:00 pm
From: Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply
Rod Speed wrote:
>
> And even the minor pauses to fix the problems is really
> no big deal and provides a bit of a break in the trip.
EEK!!!! when I was a child, we had a number of vacations in a lemon
where we had to spend time getting the car fixed. To me it would not be
worth it, but I suppose to each their own.
--
Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your
work with excellence.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 8:33 pm
From: timeOday
Anthony Matonak wrote:
> OhioGuy wrote:
>
>> Strangely enough, every post I have made on here lately has had
>> people responding mentioning off topic comments about another posting
>> I made over a month ago, regarding whether I should rent a vehicle or
>> buy an old van when I flew out to Bellingham, Washington.
>
>
> If I might summarize...
> $730 Van, Seat and license.
> $ 70 Putting the brakes back together that hadn't been installed right.
> $ 60 Towed and fixed sticking accelerator and loose emergency brake.
> $270 New battery and replace bald front tires.
> $ 10 Grease so it'll shift into first gear.
>
> A $500 van that wound up costing $1140 and that only had to be towed
> once and repaired four times with the minor risks of bad brakes, bald
> tires and a sticking accelerator.
>
It's definitely a "glass half full"-type situation. But since OhioGuy
clearly bargain hunts for sport, it was worth it for him. Good, I say.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cleaners shrunk a Lambswool sweater - How can I stretch a it out 1 inch
all the way around
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ef6d257ac1a2dc4a?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 7:02 pm
From: Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply
IrishGirl925@gmail.com wrote:
> The cleaners shrank a lamb's wool sweater. Is there anyway to relax
> the fibers or to stretch it back out 1 inch all the way around. Oddly
> enough, it shrank more side to side than top to bottom, which is
> unusual for wool knits. I felt (on purpose) a lot and they usually
> shrink more vertically than horizaontally.
No, there is no way except possibly suing the cleaners in small claims
court for the value of the sweater. Go ask in
news:rec.crafts.textiles.sewing or news:rec.crafts.textiles.yarn if you
want to verify this.
--
Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your
work with excellence.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Who loves ya, Rush?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/50fc4bce846b7dea?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 17 2007 8:34 pm
From: bearclaw@cruller.invalid
In article <MPG.212e654dec774ff298a8e3@news.individual.net>,
krw <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote:
> Color doesn't matter.
Sure it doesn't. Especially if you are white.
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