Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 11 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: LEGITIMATE AND PAYPAL APPROVED
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/82fe395ea3984f28?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 27 2007 12:00 pm
From: wasylbrytan

GET RICH IN 30 DAYS>> virtually no investment
The home based opportunity to make substantial money with a $6
investment: as seen on Oprah!

MAKE $250,000 IN WEEKS - AS SEEN ON OPRAH & 20/20

**Proven by various, highly-respected U.S. TV and Radio programs as
being 100% legal, feasible and true.**
**Oprah Winfrey and ABC's investigation team 20/20 also prove it can
be done.***
THIS REALLY CAN MAKE YOU EASY MONEY!! IT WORKS!!! BUT YOU HAVE TO
FOLLOW The LETTER FOR IT TO WORK!!!! THIS IS NOT A PYRAMID SCAM!! :
I came across an article similar to this that said you could make
thousands of dollars within weeks with only an initial investment of
$6.00...here's how!
Paypal verifies that this $6 investment program is 100% legal and is
a
big hit this year see their note below or ask them directly...

For a simple investment of 15-30 minutes and just $6, it is 100%
worth
it to
make thousands so quickly.

This is not another scam that takes lots of your hard earned money;
this is a no risk investment that will make you thousands of dollars
very easily and quickly. Do a little research yourself online and see
if you find any negative comments about this money making investment
program?

If the program didn't work you would see hundreds of negative
comments
saying stay away. Instead you find articles like these where people
have given it a try.

>From PayPal:

"Dear Member, it has come to our attention that there is a paypal
investing opportunity floating around at the moment you may have
heard
or seen the $6 investment. You may have even taken part in it. Well
we
have been asked a lot of questions about this investment the answer
is
yes it does work and yes it is safe to use providing you follow the
rules it is legal and has made a big hit on the internet this year.

If you would like to take part in this scheme or would like a bit
more
information then please see the attached file that was kindly donated
to us. Thank you for using PayPal!"

Turn $6 into $15,000 in only 30 days...heres how! - revealed to you
in
step-by-step detail.

This program is by no means new.

It has been in existence in many forms for at least a decade.
In the early days, it required a lot more time and effort, as well as
an investment of a few hundred dollars.

However, thanks to PayPal and the Internet, the investment is now
virtually ZERO! And what's more, the entire process is FASTER,
EASIER,
and MORE LUCRATIVE than it has EVER been!

I found this on a bulletin board and decided to try it:

Make Money with your Paypal account as shown on Oprah!

"A little while back, I was browsing through news groups and came
across an article similar to this that said you could make thousands
of dollars within weeks with only an initial investment of $6.00!

So I thought, "Yeah right, this must be a scam", but like most of us,
I was curious, so I kept reading. Anyway, it said that you send only
$1.00 to each of the 6 email addresses stated in this article.

You then place your name and address at the bottom of the list at the
# 6th position and email it to your friends as well as post this
message (with your email address in the list) to at least 200
newsgroups. (There are thousands)
No catch that was it.

So after thinking it over, and talking to a few people first, I
thought about trying it.

I figured "what have I got to lose except $6.00, right?"So I invested
the measly $6.00

Well GUESS WHAT!! Within days, I started getting money coming into my
Pay Pal account! I was shocked!

I figured it would end soon, but the money just kept coming in.

In my first week, I made about $25.00, which means that 25 people
joined the group after they saw my posted messages.

By the end of the second week I had made a total of over $1000.00!
In the third week I had over $10,000.00 and it's still growing.

This is now my fourth week and I have made a total of just over
$42,000.00 and it's still coming in rapidly.

It's certainly worth $6.00, and the few minutes it took to join
Paypal.
I have spent more than that on the lottery!

Let me tell you how this works and most importantly, why it works.
Also, make sure you print a copy of this article NOW, so you can get
the information off of it, as you need it. I promise you that if you
follow the directions EXACTLY, that you will start making more money
than you thought possible by doing something so easy!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SUGGESTION:
Read this entire message carefully!
Follow the simple directions and watch the money come in, it's that
easy!
It's legal. And, your investment is only $6.00.

IMPORTANT: This is not a rip-off; it is not indecent; it is not
illegal; and it is virtually no risk-it really works! If all of the
following instructions are adhered to, you will receive extraordinary
dividends.

AGAIN, PLEASE NOTE:
Follow these directions EXACTLY, and $20,000 or more can be yours in
4
to 6 weeks.

This program remains successful because of the honesty and integrity
of the participants.

Please continue its success by carefully adhering to the
instructions.
In this business your product is not solid and tangible, it's a
service.
You are in the business of developing Mailing Lists. Many large
corporations are happy to pay big bucks for quality lists.

However, the money made from the mailing lists is secondary to the
income, which is made from people like you and me asking to be
included in that list.

Here are the 3 easy steps to success:
REQUIREMENTS:
You must have a verified PayPal account. If you do not have an
account,
take a few minutes to join Paypal FREE: <http://www.paypal.com/

>www.paypal.com <http://www.paypal.com>

Paypal is 100% secure and is used by millions of people worldwide.
The Internet's most trusted Internet banking system for your future
income.
When creating your Paypal account make sure you use the same Email
address as your user name in the list below so people can send money
to your account.
STEP 1
Once you have a Paypal account running, use Paypal to pay $1 to EACH
of the 6 Email Addresses below because you pay people with an email
address in Paypal.

FOLLOW THESE EASY STEPS:
1. Log in to PayPal. Go to SEND MONEY tab.
2. Type in
Recipients name: (Email address)
Subject:: "EMAIL LIST"
Category:"SERVICE"
Comments: "PLEASE ADD ME TO YOUR EMAIL LIST".
3. Next screen: CHECK PAYMENT DETAIL - Select "NO SHIPPING ADDRESS
REQUIRED"
4. Send Money.
THAT'S IT. YOU'RE DONE!!
What you are doing is creating a service.
THIS IS ABSOLUTELY LEGAL!
You are requesting a legitimate service and you are paying for it!
Send $1.00 to EACH of these Email addresses:
1) michi_gsi...@yahoo.com
2) franzvog...@gmail.com
3) great_greg...@hushmail.com
4) jasin_abs...@inbox.com
5) theweavers...@netzero.net
6) wasylbrytan@shaw.ca

STEP 2

Now,... AFTER paying $1.00 to each of the email addresses above, take
the #1 Email Address off the list, move the other Email Addresses up
(6 becomes 5, 5 becomes 4, etc.) and add Your Email Address as number
6 on the list.
STEP 3
Keep this article as close to the original as possible.
Post this article to at least 200 newsgroups (there are thousands of
groups).
And email your message to as many people you can. Remember, the more
you post and email the more money you make!

This is perfectly legal!
(If you don't send the money and decide to post the message with your
name in it anyway, Paypal will instantly pick this up and terminate
your account, immediately, besides the other penalties!!)
If you did this you could get into serious trouble because it is
fraud. (So follow the instructions and post the $6 and you will make
lots of money with no hassles.)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HOW TO POST TO NEWSGROUPS & MESSAGE BOARDS

Step #1)
You do not need to re-type this entire letter to do your own posting.
Simply put your CURSOR at the beginning of this letter and drag your
CURSOR to the bottom of this document, and select 'copy' from the
edit
menu. This will copy the entire letter into your computer's temporary
memory.

Step #2)
Open a blank 'Notepad' file and place your cursor at the top of the
blank page. From the 'Edit' menu select 'Paste'. This will paste a
copy of the letter into notepad so that you can add your email to the
list.

Step #3)
Save your new Notepad file as a .txt file. If you want to do your
postings in different sittings, you'll always have this file to go
back to.

Step #4)
Use Netscape or Internet Explorer and try searching for various
newsgroups, on-line forums, message boards, bulletin boards, chat
sites, discussions, discussion groups, online communities, etc.
EXAMPLE: go to any search engine like yahoo.com, google.com,
altavista.com, excite.com - then search with subjects like
millionaire
message board? or money making message board? or opportunity message
board? or money making discussions? or business bulletin board? or
money making forum? etc. You will find thousands & thousands of
message boards. Click them one by one then you will find the option
to
post a new message.

Step #5)
Visit these message boards and post this article as a new message by
highlighting the text of this letter and selecting 'Paste' from the
'Edit' menu. Fill in the Subject, this will be the header that
everyone sees as they scroll thru the list of postings in a
particular
group, click the post message button. You're done with your first
one!
Congratulations!

REMEMBER, THE MORE NEWSGROUPS YOU POST IN, THE MORE MONEY YOU WILL
MAKE!!BUT YOU HAVE TO POST A MINIMUM OF 200!
That is it!

Like most of us I was a little skeptical and a little worried about
the legal aspects of it all.

But I looked around and did some homework and found it was perfectly
legal.
If you have any doubts, refer to Title 18 Sec. 1302 and 1241 of the
Postal Lottery laws.

Keep a copy of these steps for yourself and, whenever you need money,
you can use it again and again.

PLEASE REMEMBER
This program remains successful because of the honesty and integrity
of the participants and by their carefully adhering to the
directions.
You are simply paying into a money making chain of participants and
if
the chain is broken you are screwing someone else out of their fair
share.

So, as each person who joins the family and the directions are
followed, six members will be reimbursed for their participation as a
List Developer with one dollar each.

You then insert your Email Address into the list and it will move up
geometrically.

So that when your name reaches the #1 position you will have
potentially received thousands of dollars into your account!!!
What an opportunity for only a total of $6.00!!
You will begin receiving money in your account from around the world
within days!

JUST MAKE SURE ALL THE ADDRESSES ARE CORRECT.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now the WHY part out of 200 postings:

Say I receive only 5 replies (a very low example).

So then I made $5.00 with my name at #6 on the letter.

Each of the 5 persons who just sent me $1.00 make the MINIMUM 200
postings, each with my name at # 5 and only 5 persons respond to each
of the original 5, this is an additional $25.00 for me.

Now those 25 each make 200 minimum posts with my name at #4 and only
5
replies each.

This brings in an additional $125.00.

Those 125 persons turn around and post the MINIMUM 200 with my name
at
#3 and receive 5 replies each, I will make an additional $625.00.

Ok, now here is the FUN part, each of those 625 people posts a
MINIMUM
of 200 letters with my name at #2 and they receive 5 replies each.

That just made me $3,125.00!!!

Those 3125 persons will all deliver this message to 200 newsgroups
with my name at #1 and if still 5 persons per 200 react, I will
receive an additional $15,625.00!!

With an investment of only $6.00!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When your name is no longer on the list, you just take the latest
posting in the newsgroups, and send out another $6.00 to Email
Addresses using Paypal on the list, putting your name at number 6
again. And start posting again.

The thing to remember is that thousands of people all over the world
are joining the Internet and reading these articles everyday.
JUST LIKE YOU ARE NOW!!

So, can you afford $6.00 to see if it really works??
I think so!

People have said, "what if the plan is played out and no one sends
you
the money? So what!

What are the chances of that happening when there are tons of new
honest users and new honest people who are joining the internet and
newsgroups everyday and are willing to give it a try??

==============================================================================
TOPIC: PagePlus, the Prepaid Service Few People Know About even though they
are usually the cheapest option with the best coverage
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/279ba1ffd2841502?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 27 2007 12:08 pm
From: "Godzilla Pimp"

"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:46f7fd11$0$27203$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> Godzilla Pimp wrote:
>
>> Yes indeed. PP is the best prepaid service out there for anyone in native
>> Verizon territory. An old and reliable company. You can use any Verizon,
>> Alltel and some Amp'd phones or buy a shiny new INpulse phone at Walmart
>> or Target. The other good alternative for folks in the central US where
>> native Verizon coverage is often lacking is Tmo2go. Check out the people
>> who know instead of posting speculative crap.
>
> T-Mobile has very spotty coverage in the western region, so they're not a
> good choice for prepaid (or postpaid) out here. I've used them with no
> problem on the east coast. It's not that they don't want to improve their
> coverage, it's that to do so means placing towers in places where they
> can't get zoning approval for towers. It's not like satellite dishes where
> the FCC prohibits any zoning ordinances from preventing satellite
> receivers.

Tho rapidly improving, Tmo2go coverage is not as good as Verizon's, which is
tops. But in the central US (outside of major urban areas) you will be
roaming and paying about 50c/m on Page Plus while with Tmo2go roaming is
free.

Check your maps, neighbors and friends for coverage in your area.

http://www.howardforums.com/

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 27 2007 2:01 pm
From: Joe

On Sep 23, 5:44 pm, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el...@nastydesigns.com>
wrote:
> In article <46f6f23c$0$27170$742ec...@news.sonic.net>,
>
>
>
>
>
> SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
> > I had to go into explaining how to sign up (having to buy activation on
> > eBay is kind of strange), and which phones to use (any phone that was
> > ever on Verizon CDMA), and explain the rollover, the re-upping every
> > four months, etc.

That's 120 days, not 4 months.

> OK, so do you want to point to actual documentation, say on their web
> site, where they say any of this?
>
> Because it ain't there.
>
> You can buy 700 minutes for $50, but they don't show any 1400 minute
> airtime cards.
>
> Oh, wait--last time I was on their site a few days ago, they had only
> ONE airtime card available. What's with the jumping web site? They
> don't have product to sell? They don't bother to keep airtime cards in
> stock?
>
[snip...]
>
> Given the piss-poor web site and total lack of documentation of
> anything, why would I bother to buy anything from them? On your say so?
> Why should I believe you, or any dealer, for that matter? "Here, it
> works that way, really. No, I don't have any brochures or pamphlets to
> give you. Just take my word for it, everything'll be fine." Yeah,
> right. Uncle Sam's Honest Used Cars. Every car a creampuff, a steal, I
> tell ya!-
>

I have several friends and relatives (all cheap Scots like myself) on
PP, and I evangelize PP in every group I attend.
But their lack of marketing, presentation, retail interface, etc, make
it a very difficult transition from "$2.50 a month" to "Here's
how...". That's why Best Buy, AT&T, Sprint, Virgin, et al, can
continue to sell accounts at $30-50/month: they make it easy for you
to part with your money. Mom and Dad, Sis, and the aunties who still
have black corded 500 sets at home all got PP in the last two years,
when they finally gave up on looking for yucky payphones...

Each relates to me their struggle to buy refills or recharge over the
phone - but a little inconvenience every 4 months seems reasonable to
save $100 per phone-year. (Yes, I know, Virgin on auto-recharge
would only cost about $30 more per year, but we don't believe in
allowing such automatic debits, they tend to get abused.)

I suspect, if PP had their act together to promote themselves well,
they'd probably collapse under their own weight, so I don't worry
about their lack of growth. But I can attest that they're real, and
if you're willing to make the extra effort, an incredible value.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 27 2007 2:17 pm
From: SMS

Joe wrote:

<snip>

> I suspect, if PP had their act together to promote themselves well,
> they'd probably collapse under their own weight, so I don't worry
> about their lack of growth. But I can attest that they're real, and
> if you're willing to make the extra effort, an incredible value.

What's a little strange is that they really have two web sites.

"http://pagepluscellular.stores.yahoo.net" does have all the information
about rates, coverage, minutes, and expiration times, while
"http://www.pagepluscellular.com/" does not.

If they became too successful, Verizon would probably decide that they
are a threat, and not renew their contract to purchase minutes. So maybe
it's time to stop telling people about them! It seems from some of the
posts in this thread that many users are content to live with higher
rates, high minimums, and poorer coverage. More power to 'em.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 27 2007 5:51 pm
From: Joe

On Sep 23, 6:10 pm, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> > In article <46f6f23c$0$27170$742ec...@news.sonic.net>,
> > SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Besides the parent's suggestions of saving electricity by eliminating
> >> all video games, and the scouts suggestion of cutting showers back to
> >> once a month to save water and natural gas
>
> > Obviously the latter is a joke, but the way you put those together, you
> > seem to think "elminating all video games" is a joke?
>
> > It's a perfectly rational thing to do. Of course, today's "I'm too
> > busy" parents just love the video games as an electronic babysitter...
>
> Except that the video games use very little electricity.

Untrue.

Both the Playstation 3 and the Xbox 360 average about 200 watts, and a
typical plasma screen is about 300 watts.
That's not insignificant, especially when the typical household has
the TV on 8 hours a day, and in a family household, that's probably
several TVs.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: China Holds Up The Sky
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/eee388331e616acd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 27 2007 12:16 pm
From: PaPaPeng

World economy

Stronger China
Sep 27th 2007
http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9867004
From The Economist print edition

Thanks to China, an American recession need not cause the whole world
to crash

ECONOMISTS have long warned that the world economy could not fly for
ever on the single engine of American demand. A one-engined plane is
more likely to crash. With its housing market blighted and its
consumers growing fearful, America now faces a mounting risk of
recession. The good news, however, is that the world has found some
powerful new engines in China and other emerging economies. Even as
credit markets seize up, a world economy that is less dependent on the
United States is more likely to stay aloft.

The power of this new motor is startling. For several years, emerging
Asian economies have accounted for more of global GDP growth than
America has. This year China alone will for the first time accomplish
the same feat all on its own (at market exchange rates), even if
American growth holds up. American consumer spending is roughly four
times the size of China's and India's combined, but what matters for
global growth is the extra dollars of spending generated each year. In
the first half of 2007 the increase in consumer spending (in actual
dollar terms) in China and India together contributed more to global
GDP growth than the increase in America did.

Of course, this silver lining has its cloud. A sharp slowdown in China
now would have much nastier global consequences than in the past, and
the Chinese economy has weaknesses. But it does not look like getting
into trouble over the next couple of years (see article)--the period in
which America looks as though it may be feeble. If China can keep
flying high, it will help keep the world economy safe.

Of course, if America suffers a recession, then Asia's exports will
weaken. But this should not hurt GDP growth too much because other
factors should help offset the weakening. It helps that China and most
other Asian emerging economies are now exporting more to the European
Union than to America. China's exports to other emerging economies are
growing even faster. It helps, too, that domestic spending has
strengthened and is likely to stay strong: China, along with most of
the rest of Asia, is one of few parts of the world without a housing
bubble.

If emerging Asian economies start to look weak, their governments have
some scope to strengthen them. Most, with the exception of India, have
small budget deficits; some even have surpluses. So if exports
collapse, governments also have ample scope to boost domestic demand.

Commodity prices, too, will continue to feel the effect of the
emerging economies' increased importance. It is commonly assumed that
an American recession would cause a sharp fall in the prices of oil
and other commodities. But emerging Asia accounted for two-thirds of
the increase in world energy demand over the past five years. So if
Asia remains strong, commodity prices should too, and
commodity-producing emerging economies such as Brazil, Russia and the
Middle East will also continue to thrive.

Steady on
Emerging Asia cannot pick up all the slack if America goes into
recession. Average world growth will slow--and, arguably, it needs to.
But Asia can help to keep the world chugging along. Indeed, a modest
slowing in the American economy could even help Asia in the long run
if it forces governments to switch the mix of growth from exports to
consumption and so make their future growth more sustainable.

Not so long ago, the rich world used to regard emerging economies as
risky and unstable. That view needs to change: emerging economies now
look like a force for stabilising the world economy.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 27 2007 2:45 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"PaPaPeng" <PaPaPeng@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bd0of3hfoht455vtev6q1m6si5p2ba2pt4@4ax.com...
>
i'm really quite sick of paying out the bucks to hold up anything.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 27 2007 5:47 pm
From: James

On Sep 27, 5:45 pm, "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <der...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> "PaPaPeng" <PaPaP...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:bd0of3hfoht455vtev6q1m6si5p2ba2pt4@4ax.com...
>
> i'm really quite sick of paying out the bucks to hold up anything.

Most Americans are tired of paying out bucks to American labor.
That's why they buy Chinese. Blood might be thicker than water but
the greenback is their god.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Excerpt: Are You An Underearner?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4975baef609340a2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 27 2007 12:25 pm
From: Tim Woodall

On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 17:46:43 GMT,
Robin T Cox <nomail@nomail.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 12:48:50 -0400, Goomba38 wrote:
>
>> Robin T Cox wrote:
>>> On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:01:08 -0500, Steve O'Keefe wrote:
>>>
>>>> According to Stanny, all
>>>> underearners share one common trait: a high tolerance for low pay.
>>>
>>> So low pay is the fault of the employee, not the employer? How convenient.
>>
>> Perhaps low extended effort, limited professional level knowledge &
>> skills are the employee's fault in keeping the employee's pay low?
>
> But low extended effort etc are not traits. Traits are things you are born
> with, and cannot change, like the colour of your hair or your eyes.
>
Not in English they aren't

Trait n. distinguishing feature or character, appearance, habit, or
portrayal.

In biology (and in programming) it has a specific meaning but the author
is not using the word in that sense.

> The author of the piece is seriously inviting us to accept that
> underearners are the way they are because of the way they are born.
>
> How convenient.

No. You have just read a tiny posting. I seriously doubt you have read
the linked article because while there are plenty of criticisms you
could make of the article what you are writing here is just a strawman.

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/

http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 27 2007 1:00 pm
From: Robin T Cox

On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:25:46 +0000, Tim Woodall wrote:

> On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 17:46:43 GMT,
> Robin T Cox <nomail@nomail.net> wrote:
>> On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 12:48:50 -0400, Goomba38 wrote:
>>
>>> Robin T Cox wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:01:08 -0500, Steve O'Keefe wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> According to Stanny, all
>>>>> underearners share one common trait: a high tolerance for low pay.
>>>>
>>>> So low pay is the fault of the employee, not the employer? How convenient.
>>>
>>> Perhaps low extended effort, limited professional level knowledge &
>>> skills are the employee's fault in keeping the employee's pay low?
>>
>> But low extended effort etc are not traits. Traits are things you are born
>> with, and cannot change, like the colour of your hair or your eyes.
>>
> Not in English they aren't
>
> Trait n. distinguishing feature or character, appearance, habit, or
> portrayal.
>
> In biology (and in programming) it has a specific meaning but the author
> is not using the word in that sense.
>
>> The author of the piece is seriously inviting us to accept that
>> underearners are the way they are because of the way they are born.
>>
>> How convenient.
>
> No. You have just read a tiny posting. I seriously doubt you have read
> the linked article because while there are plenty of criticisms you
> could make of the article what you are writing here is just a strawman.
>
> Tim.
>

On the contrary. Your argument uses the straw man that attributes words in
the article that are not there.

Such as 'attitude' instead of 'trait'.

And, as I have indicated, your knowledge of basic psychology is deficient,
in that you cannot tell the difference between a psychological attitude
and a psychological trait.

And, since the words are used in their psychological sense in the OP's
article, you display your ignorance of English also.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 27 2007 1:42 pm
From: Tim Woodall

On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 20:00:00 GMT,
Robin T Cox <nomail@nomail.net> wrote:
>
> On the contrary. Your argument uses the straw man that attributes words in
> the article that are not there.
>
> Such as 'attitude' instead of 'trait'.
>
> And, as I have indicated, your knowledge of basic psychology is deficient,
> in that you cannot tell the difference between a psychological attitude
> and a psychological trait.
>
> And, since the words are used in their psychological sense in the OP's
> article, you display your ignorance of English also.

When you are in a hole it's best to stop digging.

My use of attitude that you have so much objection to is:
>Underearning is the fault of the employee. As the article says:
>What does it mean to be an underearner? To start with, it has little
>to do with the amount of money you make. It has everything to do with
>your attitude.

Now lets look at the third paragraph of the article

What does it mean to be an underearner? To start with, it has little to
do with the amount of money you make. It has everything to do with your
attitude.

Notice anything?

Now if you continue it goes on to give ten traits of underearners.

And then:
Did you happen to notice what these ten traits all have in common? Every
one of them is self-imposed. Every one is something we do to ourselves.
Go back and read each trait. Can you see how every one is the result of
a choice we made? That's wonderful news. If we create the conditions for
underearning to occur, we have the power to change them.

Do you really think the author is saying "Underearners have innate traits
that that they were born with and cannot be changed". That's a funny
understanding of "we have the power to change them."

And now lets look at your first reply:
>So low pay is the fault of the employee, not the employer? How
>convenient.

And the very first paragraph has:
All underearners, without question, share one common trait: a high
tolerance for low pay. This is a sure sign of underearning. Yet even
that description doesn't tell the whole story. "Low pay" is a relative
term. You can make six figures and still be an underearner. Conversely,
you can earn far less and not fit that category.

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/

http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 27 2007 1:57 pm
From: Robin T Cox

On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 20:42:03 +0000, Tim Woodall wrote:

> When you are in a hole it's best to stop digging.

Best to take your own advice.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: "Stone Soup" comic strips - on generic cereal
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e2e61630b143b7aa?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 27 2007 12:31 pm
From: lenona321@yahoo.com

http://news.yahoo.com/comics/uclickcomics/20070926/cx_ss_uc/ss20070926

(yesterday's strip)

http://www.gocomics.com/stonesoup/

(today's)

What's interesting, for those who don't know the strip, is that the
mother is hardly the type to tolerate brattiness, but it keeps popping
up anyway - especially in the older daughter.

Lenona.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Did fluorescent bulbs save you money?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8aa0ba4f7349251c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 27 2007 12:45 pm
From: James

My father used to turn off unnecessary lights. After converting to
fluorescent bulbs he didn't turn off lights, had some on all night,
and even left a few on 24/7. Now fluorescent bulbs might only take a
quarter of the energy but he certainly had the lights on more than 4
times as long.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 27 2007 1:01 pm
From: et472@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Michael Black)

James (j0069bond@hotmail.com) writes:
> My father used to turn off unnecessary lights. After converting to
> fluorescent bulbs he didn't turn off lights, had some on all night,
> and even left a few on 24/7. Now fluorescent bulbs might only take a
> quarter of the energy but he certainly had the lights on more than 4
> times as long.
>
You're comparing apples and oranges.

Just because he leaves them on all the time doesn't mean everyone does.

Michael

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 27 2007 1:39 pm
From: "Daniel T."

James <j0069bond@hotmail.com> wrote:

> My father used to turn off unnecessary lights. After converting to
> fluorescent bulbs he didn't turn off lights, had some on all night,
> and even left a few on 24/7. Now fluorescent bulbs might only take a
> quarter of the energy but he certainly had the lights on more than 4
> times as long.

Good for him, he was able to increase the number of hours of light usage
while substantially lowering the cost of that usage per hour.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 27 2007 6:51 pm
From: "Don K"

"Daniel T." <daniel_t@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:daniel_t-63AFE2.16395127092007@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...
> James <j0069bond@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> My father used to turn off unnecessary lights. After converting to
>> fluorescent bulbs he didn't turn off lights, had some on all night,
>> and even left a few on 24/7. Now fluorescent bulbs might only take a
>> quarter of the energy but he certainly had the lights on more than 4
>> times as long.
>
> Good for him, he was able to increase the number of hours of light usage
> while substantially lowering the cost of that usage per hour.

Just because light was being generated, doesn't mean light was being used.

If the light is wasted, then all the power and cost to generate that light is
wasted too.

Don

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 27 2007 7:15 pm
From: Logan Shaw

James wrote:
> My father used to turn off unnecessary lights. After converting to
> fluorescent bulbs he didn't turn off lights, had some on all night,
> and even left a few on 24/7.

I would never do that. I can't stand anything but the minimum amount of
light while I'm trying to sleep. Lights on in another room would drive
me batty.

Having said all that, perhaps your father hated having to worry about
constantly turning the lights off and on, and his switch to fluorescent
lighting was a wash as far as energy savings goes but a huge benefit in
the area of not having to fuss with things you don't want to fuss with.

- Logan

==============================================================================
TOPIC: discount-luxury.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cb1025a48e272dfb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 27 2007 1:56 pm
From: Al Bundy

JOHN41...@gmail.com wrote:
> This website is fraudulent. DO NOT ORDER ANYTHING FROM THEM. I ordered
> a Prada bag from them and it is nothing like the designer pictures
> they are showing and the material is typical Chinese garbage. The bag
> was suppose to be patent leather and it was some cheap crap. They sell
> real bad knock-offs. They have no address where to locate the company
> and only provide a email address. There is no address for returns even
> though they indicate information is available on shipping and returns.
> When you go to returns on their website the page is blank. I had to
> with fight them to get a return address which is in Guangzhou City,
> China and it cost me $40 to return it and they have not returned my
> $259.00 through PayPal. I called PayPal and since they are out of the
> country their is nothing they can do to help other than sending a
> email to them requesting the return of my money and posting a bad
> merchant information. In addition, the Prada bag that I ordered was
> $259.00 and now their website has increased the price to $329.00. Here
> is the website link:

An old timer like Bernie Baruch once said, "A loss quickly taken is
half a gain."
If you had held on to the bag you would now have one worth $70 more.
Anyone stupid enough to buy from one of those sites deserves exactly
what they get.
Generally, I'd say you paid tuition and received an education. In
reality, you probably bought stuff like this in the past and will
again next week when the sting wears off. Welcome to the college of
lifelong learning.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: FileMyReceipt.com - free website...
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/feeac42aa0d8e3eb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 27 2007 1:56 pm
From: SupermanDT@gmail.com

I use www.filemyreceipt.com to upload all of my receipts and even
receipts from the web! They say "never lose a receipt again" and it
is true! I dont have to use outlook and create files for my receipts.
when I want to return something, i go to the site, view my receipts
and print it out and go to the store to return it! pretty cool that
you can access all of your receipts from any computer!! Hope this
helps!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Crowd cheers as Tancredo blasts illegal -- and legal -- immigration in
U.S.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/defc6d96c0bb0533?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 27 2007 2:10 pm
From: BTR1701

In article <gtLKi.8018$f%1.642@trnddc01>,
"Bill Walker" <bill.walker2@verizon.net> wrote:

> "BTR1701" <btr1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:btr1702-13EF1A.16594726092007@news.giganews.com...
> > In article <MNyKi.3181$9r4.148@trnddc04>,
> > "Bill Walker" <bill.walker2@verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> >> "BTR1701" <btr1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> >> news:btr1702-E29946.14363326092007@news.giganews.com...
> >> > In article <cOqKi.8958$Nn4.3968@trnddc02>,
> >> > "Bill Walker" <bill.walker2@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "BTR1701" <btr1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> >> >> news:btr1702-FD305D.21020825092007@news.giganews.com...
> >> >> > In article <kAhKi.1173$hI7.425@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net>,
> >> >> > "Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> "BTR1701" <btr1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> >> >> >> news:btr1702-5A20C5.19032425092007@news.giganews.com...
> >> >> >> > In article <4XfKi.2184$6K4.705@trnddc06>,
> >> >> >> > "Bill Walker" <bill.walker2@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Whups.. <evil grin> Those elected representatives that
> >> >> >> >> you helped elect don't quite see it that way, do they?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > First, I didn't help elect the ones who don't see
> >> >> >> > it that way.
> >> >
> >> >> >> It's such a delight to see you right-wingers deny
> >> >> >> your past this way.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Wow. So you know when and for whom I voted? Interesting...
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Just how do you come by that information?
> >> >>
> >> >> LMAO.. Don't need to "come by that information"..
> >> >
> >> > Of course you don't. People like you never do. Actual facts are
> >> > irrelevant to you.
> >> >
> >> > Like the fact that it's not only Bush who "doesn't quite see it that
> >> > way" when it comes to illegal immigration. Everyone from Ted Kennedy to
> >> > Nancy Pelosi to George Bush is singing the same tune and it's not the
> >> > song the American people want to hear.
> >> >
> >> >> Bushwhores like you are trying to jump the George Bush
> >> >> ship, by the numbers.
> >> >
> >> > Riiight... because you know I voted for Bush. Oh wait...
> >> >
> >> > So you're 0 for 3 now. Don't know to stop while you're only slightly
> >> > behind, I see.
> >> >
> >> >> First manuever is to try and work both sides of the
> >> >> street by denying ever supporting and voting for the
> >> >> corrupt son of a bitch.
> >> >
> >> > I'll give you credit for coming up with a clever little bit here. It's
> >> > rather convenient how it doesn't require a shred of proof on your part.
> >> > Just unabashed and unsupported accusation. All you have to do is claim
> >> > someone is a Bush supporter and if they deny it, it doesn't matter
> >> > whether they're telling the truth or not. All you have to say is,
> >> > "you're just jumping ship, working both sides of the street".
> >> >
> >> > Neat trick if you can find someone stupid enough to fall for it.
> >>
> >> I expect anyone reading your posts has already come to the same
> >> conclusion.
> >
> > I'm sure they have. Not that anyone really needs me to explain your
> > nonsense to them in order to reach the same conclusion I did. Your
> > dishonesty is blindingly obvious.
>
> hmmm.. I'm getting the idea that you MAY be one of the "independent"
> voters (if you vote) who supports some alternative candidate.. LOL.. Is
> that your claim to fame, that you are not a "Bushwhore" ?

Huh? I have no "claim to fame" at all. I neither need nor want to be
famous. Perhaps we've just gotten a glimpse into the roots of your
pathology...

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 27 2007 5:29 pm
From: "Bill Walker"

"BTR1701" <btr1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:btr1702-0017B1.17100927092007@news.giganews.com...
> In article <gtLKi.8018$f%1.642@trnddc01>,
> "Bill Walker" <bill.walker2@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> "BTR1701" <btr1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>> news:btr1702-13EF1A.16594726092007@news.giganews.com...
>> > In article <MNyKi.3181$9r4.148@trnddc04>,
>> > "Bill Walker" <bill.walker2@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> "BTR1701" <btr1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:btr1702-E29946.14363326092007@news.giganews.com...
>> >> > In article <cOqKi.8958$Nn4.3968@trnddc02>,
>> >> > "Bill Walker" <bill.walker2@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> "BTR1701" <btr1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:btr1702-FD305D.21020825092007@news.giganews.com...
>> >> >> > In article <kAhKi.1173$hI7.425@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net>,
>> >> >> > "Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> "BTR1701" <btr1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>> >> >> >> news:btr1702-5A20C5.19032425092007@news.giganews.com...
>> >> >> >> > In article <4XfKi.2184$6K4.705@trnddc06>,
>> >> >> >> > "Bill Walker" <bill.walker2@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Whups.. <evil grin> Those elected representatives that
>> >> >> >> >> you helped elect don't quite see it that way, do they?
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > First, I didn't help elect the ones who don't see
>> >> >> >> > it that way.
>> >> >
>> >> >> >> It's such a delight to see you right-wingers deny
>> >> >> >> your past this way.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Wow. So you know when and for whom I voted? Interesting...
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Just how do you come by that information?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> LMAO.. Don't need to "come by that information"..
>> >> >
>> >> > Of course you don't. People like you never do. Actual facts are
>> >> > irrelevant to you.
>> >> >
>> >> > Like the fact that it's not only Bush who "doesn't quite see it that
>> >> > way" when it comes to illegal immigration. Everyone from Ted Kennedy
>> >> > to
>> >> > Nancy Pelosi to George Bush is singing the same tune and it's not
>> >> > the
>> >> > song the American people want to hear.
>> >> >
>> >> >> Bushwhores like you are trying to jump the George Bush
>> >> >> ship, by the numbers.
>> >> >
>> >> > Riiight... because you know I voted for Bush. Oh wait...
>> >> >
>> >> > So you're 0 for 3 now. Don't know to stop while you're only slightly
>> >> > behind, I see.
>> >> >
>> >> >> First manuever is to try and work both sides of the
>> >> >> street by denying ever supporting and voting for the
>> >> >> corrupt son of a bitch.
>> >> >
>> >> > I'll give you credit for coming up with a clever little bit here.
>> >> > It's
>> >> > rather convenient how it doesn't require a shred of proof on your
>> >> > part.
>> >> > Just unabashed and unsupported accusation. All you have to do is
>> >> > claim
>> >> > someone is a Bush supporter and if they deny it, it doesn't matter
>> >> > whether they're telling the truth or not. All you have to say is,
>> >> > "you're just jumping ship, working both sides of the street".
>> >> >
>> >> > Neat trick if you can find someone stupid enough to fall for it.
>> >>
>> >> I expect anyone reading your posts has already come to the same
>> >> conclusion.
>> >
>> > I'm sure they have. Not that anyone really needs me to explain your
>> > nonsense to them in order to reach the same conclusion I did. Your
>> > dishonesty is blindingly obvious.
>>
>> hmmm.. I'm getting the idea that you MAY be one of the "independent"
>> voters (if you vote) who supports some alternative candidate.. LOL.. Is
>> that your claim to fame, that you are not a "Bushwhore" ?
>
> Huh? I have no "claim to fame" at all. I neither need nor want to be
> famous. Perhaps we've just gotten a glimpse into the roots of your
> pathology...

No kidding? You spend a couple of days on here, making some kind
of lameassed defense of George Bush.. then, when someone calls you
what you really are.. you jump back and deny being a Bush supporter..

One of two conclusions.. either you don't vote or you supported one of
the alternative candidates.. Which was it ? Either way.. you are still a
Bushwhore..

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 27 2007 5:43 pm
From: BTR1701

In article <vVXKi.1171$6h.505@trnddc06>,
"Bill Walker" <bill.walker2@verizon.net> wrote:

> "BTR1701" <btr1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:btr1702-0017B1.17100927092007@news.giganews.com...
> > In article <gtLKi.8018$f%1.642@trnddc01>,
> > "Bill Walker" <bill.walker2@verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> >> "BTR1701" <btr1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> >> news:btr1702-13EF1A.16594726092007@news.giganews.com...
> >> > In article <MNyKi.3181$9r4.148@trnddc04>,
> >> > "Bill Walker" <bill.walker2@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "BTR1701" <btr1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> >> >> news:btr1702-E29946.14363326092007@news.giganews.com...
> >> >> > In article <cOqKi.8958$Nn4.3968@trnddc02>,
> >> >> > "Bill Walker" <bill.walker2@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> "BTR1701" <btr1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> >> >> >> news:btr1702-FD305D.21020825092007@news.giganews.com...
> >> >> >> > In article <kAhKi.1173$hI7.425@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net>,
> >> >> >> > "Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> "BTR1701" <btr1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> >> >> >> >> news:btr1702-5A20C5.19032425092007@news.giganews.com...
> >> >> >> >> > In article <4XfKi.2184$6K4.705@trnddc06>,
> >> >> >> >> > "Bill Walker" <bill.walker2@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> Whups.. <evil grin> Those elected representatives that
> >> >> >> >> >> you helped elect don't quite see it that way, do they?
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > First, I didn't help elect the ones who don't see
> >> >> >> >> > it that way.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> It's such a delight to see you right-wingers deny
> >> >> >> >> your past this way.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Wow. So you know when and for whom I voted? Interesting...
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Just how do you come by that information?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> LMAO.. Don't need to "come by that information"..
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Of course you don't. People like you never do. Actual facts are
> >> >> > irrelevant to you.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Like the fact that it's not only Bush who "doesn't quite see it that
> >> >> > way" when it comes to illegal immigration. Everyone from Ted Kennedy
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > Nancy Pelosi to George Bush is singing the same tune and it's not
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > song the American people want to hear.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Bushwhores like you are trying to jump the George Bush
> >> >> >> ship, by the numbers.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Riiight... because you know I voted for Bush. Oh wait...
> >> >> >
> >> >> > So you're 0 for 3 now. Don't know to stop while you're only slightly
> >> >> > behind, I see.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> First manuever is to try and work both sides of the
> >> >> >> street by denying ever supporting and voting for the
> >> >> >> corrupt son of a bitch.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I'll give you credit for coming up with a clever little bit here.
> >> >> > It's
> >> >> > rather convenient how it doesn't require a shred of proof on your
> >> >> > part.
> >> >> > Just unabashed and unsupported accusation. All you have to do is
> >> >> > claim
> >> >> > someone is a Bush supporter and if they deny it, it doesn't matter
> >> >> > whether they're telling the truth or not. All you have to say is,
> >> >> > "you're just jumping ship, working both sides of the street".
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Neat trick if you can find someone stupid enough to fall for it.
> >> >>
> >> >> I expect anyone reading your posts has already come to the same
> >> >> conclusion.
> >> >
> >> > I'm sure they have. Not that anyone really needs me to explain your
> >> > nonsense to them in order to reach the same conclusion I did. Your
> >> > dishonesty is blindingly obvious.
> >>
> >> hmmm.. I'm getting the idea that you MAY be one of the "independent"
> >> voters (if you vote) who supports some alternative candidate.. LOL.. Is
> >> that your claim to fame, that you are not a "Bushwhore" ?
> >
> > Huh? I have no "claim to fame" at all. I neither need nor want to be
> > famous. Perhaps we've just gotten a glimpse into the roots of your
> > pathology...
>
> No kidding? You spend a couple of days on here, making
> some kind of lameassed defense of George Bush.

Please quote me back any instance where I've defended Bush, lameass or
otherwise, in the last few days or ever.

Betcha can't.

> Either way.. you are still a Bushwhore..

Well, so are you. Pot, kettle, etc.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Funny Puzzle : How many Legs are there inside the bus?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1badd56aad6ac697?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 27 2007 7:18 pm
From: Anthony Matonak

They also don't mention how many legs each girl has but
they make a point of how many legs each cat has. They
also don't many any other wildlife. A single centipede,
for instance, would skew the total significantly.

Godzilla Pimp wrote:
> Depends on whether the bus driver is aboard. They should have said the bus
> was going down the road...would have made a better puzzle.
>
> "avtar" <avtarsaini.84@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> Scenario:
>> There is a bus with 7 girls inside,
>> Each girl has 7 bags,
>> Inside each bag, there are 7 Big cats,
>> Each Big cat has 7 small cats,
>> All cats have 4 Legs each!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Consumers Reports VS. Consumers Digest
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b9b3d6fa0c1fbee9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 27 2007 7:11 pm
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <46fb41ed$0$18942$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Anthony Matonak <anthonym40@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote:

> Shawn Hirn wrote:
> > Steve <ytr@svb.inv> wrote:
> >> Also, dunno why they spend their limited resources reviewing very
> >> expensive luxury cars that wouldn't be considered by the vast majority
> >> of their subscribers.
> >
> > Because some of their subscribers appreciate such reviews.
>
> Because they can take the cars home when they're done. :)

I believe CR sells the cars it reviews as used, but I am not certain of
that.

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Friday, September 28, 2007

25 new messages in 11 topics - digest

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