Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 9 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Who carved handcraft than us?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/93cef4d485961962?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 11 2007 12:22 am
From: Stone hong

Carve but give up half way, even a decayed piece of wood will not
break; carve without stop, even metal and stone can be engraved.
As a jade without chiseling will not become a useful object, a man
without learning will not know the Way.

http://www.maplem.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Do you like paying for air? (food packages)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/af114586924248d4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 11 2007 1:29 am
From: Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply

timeOday wrote:
>
> And both are on store shelves right next to the bottled water - talk
> about dilution.

Yeah, the next thing you know, they will be selling dehydrated water in
the supermarkets at premium prices.

--
Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your
work with excellence.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 11 2007 2:42 am
From: Anthony Matonak

Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply wrote:
...
> Yeah, the next thing you know, they will be selling dehydrated water in
> the supermarkets at premium prices.

They do almost exactly this in the form of kool-aid.
Just add water and sugar. * :)

Anthony
--
* Cyanide optional.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 11 2007 6:18 am
From: George Grapman

Anthony Matonak wrote:
> Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply wrote:
> ...
>> Yeah, the next thing you know, they will be selling dehydrated water
>> in the supermarkets at premium prices.
>
> They do almost exactly this in the form of kool-aid.
> Just add water and sugar. * :)
>
> Anthony

On a related note I have seen "lite" versions of orange juice and
grape juice. In both cases the "Lite" is the result of water being added
but the prices are the same as the real product.
Gatorade had (might still have bit have not seen in lately) something
called Gatorade A.M. which was hyped as a morning energy drink.
According the the label and nutrition information it was the same as the
regular product but the price was higher.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 11 2007 8:51 am
From: turtlelover

Rick wrote:
> George wrote:
>
>>Marsha wrote:
>>
>>>OhioGuy wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>You can be sure that anything marked New and Improved will be less of a
>>>value to the consumer. Bleach is one example that comes to mind. The
>>>non-splash bottle has about 4-6 oz. less than the regular bleach bottle,
>>>yet charges the same price. Go figure....
>>>Marsha/Ohio
>>>
>>
>>Then there is the pre-mixed (diluted 50% with water) automotive
>>anti-freeze that now sells for the same price as the non-diluted version.
>
>
> From the same "How Dumb Do You Think a Consumer Really Is?" marketing
> department: My favorite is "lite" juices that are just regular juices
> mixed with added water. Profound revelation: If you want a "lite" juice,
> do it yourself.
>
> But these juices are still on the store shelves so I guess P. T. Barnum
> is still right...
>
> Rick

I've looked at some of those juices, and almost tried them.... until I saw that (in the case of Ocean Spray, anyway) they were "lightened"/"litened" with _Splenda._ When I see that name on a label, I steer clear, since Splenda has a putrid aftertaste -- IMHO.

Cheers,
T

==============================================================================
TOPIC: "vintage" Revereware
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7ca72a41c401c219?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 11 2007 1:33 am
From: Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply

Wooly wrote:
>
> I will also ask
> the MIL if she has any idea how the pan came to be so badly stained.

If it is discolored because it overheated, there won't be anything you
can do about it.

Otherwise, if it's real stainless steel, you can find carbon cleaner at
a restaurant supply place or use a mild oven cleaner.

--
Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your
work with excellence.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 11 2007 7:41 am
From: mmills

Revere has an 800 number

1-800-999-3436

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Drive your car to death, save $31,000
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/23a659a15b17cab8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 11 2007 4:15 am
From: SQ

On Sep 10, 1:15 pm, Vic Smith <thismailautodele...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 09:38:55 -0700, Too_Many_Tools
>
> <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >One's time is not free...never has been...never will be.
>
> >Many times it is more economical to get a minimum wage job and pay
> >someone else to do the car repair.
>
> If you value time, it might be better spent learning to do the repair
> than working 40 hours at min wage to pay a mechanic for a couple
> hours work.
> Better yet, learn to select cars that require few repairs.
> Another suggestion for those who aren't confident about diagnostics
> is to pay a pro for diagnostics, then do the repair yourself.
> Sometimes an amateur takes more time to diagnose the actual problem
> than doing the repair itself, and often throws unneeded parts at the
> problem, causing more expense than necessary.

A great web site for this research is carsurvey dot org.
Lots of feedback on used cars. It's amazing how some
get consistently bad reviews.

re: diagnosis is another good idea, it takes a fairly
advanced skills set to diagnose bad fuel pump vs.
an ignition problem. A $100+ code scanner is a good
investment however and will pay for itself even if
used just once or twice.

== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 11 2007 4:35 am
From: SQ

On Sep 10, 2:37 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Fraid so.
>
> > how many miles a year do you put on the car?
>
> Dunno, the odo broke at about year 15 and I didnt bother to replace it.

Hardly an example of awesome auto repair skills. I can
only image what the rest of the vehicle looked like.

Have you considered getting some help with your vehicle?
Try rec.autos.tech, they have a lot of techically advanced
people.

There are also a lot of forums dedicated to a certain maker.

In any case, you are mistaken about your assumption that
this would be acceptable for the average consumer, even
those with frugal mindsets. In light of this, the rest
of your advice and comments aren't particularly useful.

== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 11 2007 4:47 am
From: SQ

On Sep 10, 4:14 pm, James <jl...@idirect.com> wrote:
>
> On the other hand I had a lemon - a Chrysler Intrepid which I bought
> as a 3 year old off lease, and cost me close to 8,000 in repairs over
> a 5 year period. Yes I'm an idiot, but when you owe more than the car

Don't feel bad, I think most modern automakers across all makes
have serious issues with automatic computer-controlled transmissions.
I find it amazing that they still cannot get it right after all these
decades.

It's Chrysler but also Ford and GM. Foreign too, like BMW and Toyota
and Mazda.
Mazda 626, a joint venture between Ford/Mazda had a Ford trany in it
and was known to go out sometimes 3 times by 100K miles, a nightmare
issue. Automatic trannies need external transmission coolers, larger
oil pan, the tranny oil changed annually... high maintainance.

A 5 speed is far more likely to take you to 20 years than an auto.

It has gotten to the point where I don't trust auto trannies, period.

Check out www carsurvey org for reliability reports.

== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 11 2007 4:55 am
From: SQ

Another idea...I think buying a used car, say 5 years old
with OK miles like 80-100K and a blown engine and putting
a new engine in it is a good idea.

You can replace the entire drive train (engine+tranny)
and still have it cost less than a new vehicle and run
forever. If the body is good.

BMW for example has much better corrosion resistance
than Japanese or anything else common. If I had to take
a car to 30 years, that's what I would pick IMO
and for this reason.

Old 1980's Subaru's rusted so bad you could hear it at night.
They are better of course, but I saw a 2001 model rust a bit.

I think age and rust contributes to more failures than miles.
It's very easy to take a 2005 model to 200K miles, but
a 15 year old vehicle will struggle with even 100K miles.
All kinds of electrical problems, leaks, etc.

== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 11 2007 6:30 am
From: James

On Sep 11, 7:55 am, SQ <onestatus...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Another idea...I think buying a used car, say 5 years old
> with OK miles like 80-100K and a blown engine and putting
> a new engine in it is a good idea.
>
> You can replace the entire drive train (engine+tranny)
> and still have it cost less than a new vehicle and run
> forever. If the body is good.
>
> BMW for example has much better corrosion resistance
> than Japanese or anything else common. If I had to take
> a car to 30 years, that's what I would pick IMO
> and for this reason.
>
> Old 1980's Subaru's rusted so bad you could hear it at night.
> They are better of course, but I saw a 2001 model rust a bit.
>
> I think age and rust contributes to more failures than miles.
> It's very easy to take a 2005 model to 200K miles, but
> a 15 year old vehicle will struggle with even 100K miles.
> All kinds of electrical problems, leaks, etc.

There are many factors in longevity. Rust is one - the salt used to
melt ice and snow does play havoc. But just as important are the
places you drive and how you drive. My dad lives in the country and
used to drive his car 8 miles to work and back on back roads with no
traffic. I drive about 60 miles in a day, and the average time it
takes is 2 hours - stop and start driving, or severe service as the
car manuals state. I don't have a garage. I drive through bad weather,
salty slush and all. Even good rustrpoofing only delays the
inevitable.

One thing I noticed in my recent California vacation is how many older
cars there have bodies in good shape, original paint etc. My current
vehicle started to show rust at 4 years old.

James

== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 11 2007 6:44 am
From: "bungalow_steve@yahoo.com"

On Sep 10, 2:37 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> bungalow_st...@yahoo.com wrote
>
> > Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
> >> SQ <onestatus...@yahoo.com> wrote
> >>> IMO and my experience, making a vehicle last for decades takes either
> >>> a very large bank account or an outstanding shade tree mechanic skill set.
> >> You need to choose the cars you buy more carefully.
> >> My last one lasted 30+ years with only a couple of very minor
> >> maintenance costs, one for the alternator regulator and the
> >> other for a fuel hose. Total cost of less than $100.
> > Something doesn't sound right,
>
> Fraid so.
>
> > how many miles a year do you put on the car?
>
> Dunno, the odo broke at about year 15 and I didnt bother to replace it.
>

Ok, the truth is starting to leak out, you have no idea how far you
drive car (I expected that response), and don't fix things that brake

> > No front end work in 30 years?
>
> None.
>
> > No belts?
>
> Changed the fan belt a few times, but thats a consumable like tires and batterys etc

No they arent I have 300,000 miles on a car with no belt changes, you
need to find a better car
.
>
> > No coolant/oil/brake fluid changes/refills/top offs? No plugs?
>
> Corse there were, but again, those are consumables, not repairs.
>

Plugs are not consumables, my 300,000 mile car has original plugs,
again find a better car next time

> > No rotors?
>
> Yeah, forgot that one, add another $5.
>
> > No muffllers? No shocks?
>
> Nope.
>
> > I know guys who lease cars who don't do anything
> > (and I mean anything) for 3 years but not 30 years.
>
> You need to get out more and separate consumables from repairs too.

You said you spend $100 on maintenance costs, maintenance means
consumables, not repairs, look it up

do you even own a car?

== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 11 2007 8:32 am
From: me@privacy.net

Dennis <dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote:

>>>Yep, the shotgun approach can get expensive. A while back, my wife's
>>>car (a Mazda) suddenly began running rough and then the dreaded "Check
>>>Engine" light came on
>>
>>what model and year Mazda was it?
>>
>>just curious
>
>1995 Protege 1.5L

OK.. I have a 2000 Mazda Protege ES (1.8 liter).....
and its check engine light come son as well

I should replace the plug wires and se what it does
huh?

== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 11 2007 9:28 am
From: Dennis

On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 10:32:09 -0500, me@privacy.net wrote:

>Dennis <dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>>Yep, the shotgun approach can get expensive. A while back, my wife's
>>>>car (a Mazda) suddenly began running rough and then the dreaded "Check
>>>>Engine" light came on
>>>
>>>what model and year Mazda was it?
>>>
>>>just curious
>>
>>1995 Protege 1.5L
>
>OK.. I have a 2000 Mazda Protege ES (1.8 liter).....
>and its check engine light come son as well
>
>I should replace the plug wires and se what it does
>huh?

Um, no. The whole point of my story was that I found it to be more
efficient in my case to spend a few bucks to have a pro with the
proper equipment quickly zero in on the specific problem, then fix
that one thing myself, rather than just start blindly replacing parts
until the problem went away.

Dennis (evil)
--
The honest man is the one who realizes that he cannot
consume more, in his lifetime, than he produces.

== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 11 2007 10:50 am
From: "Rod Speed"

SQ <onestatusquo@yahoo.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote

>>> how many miles a year do you put on the car?

>> Dunno, the odo broke at about year 15 and I didnt bother to replace it.

> Hardly an example of awesome auto repair skills.

Its an example of fixing only the things that matter.

> I can only image what the rest of the vehicle looked like.

Your vivid imagination is your problem.

> Have you considered getting some help with your vehicle?

Dont need any. I chose to not fix that because it doesnt matter.

> Try rec.autos.tech, they have a lot of techically advanced people.

Dont need any of those. I physically built my own
house too, doing virtually all the work myself.

> There are also a lot of forums dedicated to a certain maker.

Duh.

> In any case, you are mistaken about your assumption
> that this would be acceptable for the average consumer,

Never ever said a word about those.

> even those with frugal mindsets.

Those are the one that only bother to fix stuff that is needed.

The odo is completely useless to me.

> In light of this, the rest of your advice and comments aren't particularly useful.

Yours in spades when you cant even manage to work out what is worth fixing and what isnt.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: www.cheapestsell.com : nike air max air force one guuci prada lacoste D&
G adiads Dior shoes
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/999230cd41bdce0b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 11 2007 8:01 am
From: 001

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: epidemic SATURN problems (9/11/07)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/729732d08a41fb99?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 11 2007 9:52 am
From: "misterfact@yahoo.com"

I have a 95 SL1 and one of the rear doors cannot
be opened from the inside, but works fine opening
the outside handle/lock. Anyone familiar with
what might be wrong? Are there 2 seperate cables
in the locking mechanism? Might something just
need greasing or is it gone? I would like to know
somewhat the damages before I take it into the
dealer or my regular repair shop.

Thanks.....

Have the TSBs corrected the problem with the headlights and guage
lights
flickering? We followed someone on an early morning trip last week
and they
said it looked as though I was flicking my high beams at them.

marx404 View profile
More options Sep 7, 7:32 am

Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.saturn
From: "marx404" <4...@404.com>
After my little excursion with the pothole from h*ll which resulted in
2 new
rims on the passenger side, my steering just doesn't feel right. The
shop
says that they have balanced and aligned everything, but there is a
very
slight feathering vibration in the steering wheel, especially when I
turn my
steering wheel left it becomes more prominent.
The roads here suck and are all bumpy, but even on the most
"smoothest" of
roads the feathering vibration feeling is there.

I'm thinking that the wheel balance is just a hair off possibly?

1993SL View profile

Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.saturn
Followup-To: rec.autos.makers.saturn
From: 1993SL <korot...@gmail.com>
I have a 1993 Saturn SL. On cold starts in the morning there is no
problem putting the car into reverse gear (automatic) and driving.
However, after the car has been warmed up and has been running for
awhile if you try to put car into reverse there is a delay and then
it
goes into reverse with a rather loud and violent jerk or it will just
hang there. If you slow press the accelerator then it seems to go
into
the reverse gear but you have to be careful otherwise it clunks and
jerks back suddenly. In drive and neutral gear there is no problem.

The "Service Engine Soon" light is also on in the dash every on and
then. The error code from the scanner reads Code 12, but I cannot
find
anyone to tell me what to fix for this code?

Took it to a transmission place and the mechanic told me the reverse
clutch was broken and would cost $900 parts and labour included and
he
would rebuild the existing transmission?

Any ideas on the cause of this problem, how to fix and approximate
cost?

Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.saturn
From: MR <mcr1...@hotmail.com>
For several months my 97 SL1 has gotten really bad MPG compared to
what it
used to get: 35mpg+ vs 25mpg now.
I have changed the plugs, but not the wires and was wondering if there
is
a sensor or sensors that could be causing this.
And are the sensors something that I could change out my self.
Also,
would any codes show up that may point to bad MPG?
Thanks a bunch,

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allan View profile
Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.saturn
From: "allan" <nowh...@accesswave.ca>
here's my dilemma and I hope someone in here can help
I have a 2005 Saturn ION 2, in the winter when it gets to a certain
cold
temp outside, the car will not turn over, put a jumper pack on it and
it
will start eventually, but not unless the booster pack has been hooked
up
for a time ( at least 5 minutes). Thought it was a dead battery so I
went
out and bought one.. same problem, its like a solenoid switch or
fuse,
expands when its cold and disables the starting system, anyone have
this
problem and figure out what it was.. any help would be greatly
appreciated..
BTW if it is a fuse or solenoid.. please describe where it is so I can
find
/ fix it
Thanks
Mary

The group you are posting to is a Usenet group. Messages
tim.bea...@gmail.com View profile
More options Aug 23, 9:15 am

Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.saturn
From: tim.bea...@gmail.com
Hi folks,

Unfortunately, one of the studs on my exhaust manifold broke,
resulting in a light ticking moise when the engine is revved (it
sounds like a valve noise). My Saturn mechanic said it happens all
the
time to the 2.2 engines and it's the stud on the passenger side of
the
engine. He also said he'd have to fail me on a safety inspection
because it's an exhaust leak.

If he could retrieve the broken stud, the cost would be about $250.
If
not, he'd have to send the head to a machine shop and have it taken
out. Unfortunately, he was unable to reach the broken stud. The
labour
charge is 9 hours for this job abd the machine shop would charge
around $250 (if the head was unmolested). The total bill would be
around $1200.

I haven't done anything yet, but I'm interested in knowing if anyone
else is in the same boat. My comment to my service manager was that a
common problem that was cause to fail a safety inspection should be a
recall item. Remember when the S series cars were recalled for head
gasket failures? Same sort of idea, but it isn't a safety concern.

What do you think, folks?

Tim Delaney
Stewiacke, NS, Canada
2002 VUE FWD, 5-speed, 146,000 km

marx404 View profileI'm getting to really hate Saturn Alloy rims.
My '94 and '02 had slightly warped rims that had to be road-force
balanced to keep the ride perfectly smooth, a driving need that I'm un-
conditional about. Those rims were warped by the previous owners, I
bought the cars used. Thought now that I have a brand new car, I
wouldn't have that problem anymore...right. The other day while off to
work, I hit a spot in the road, a very narrow high-speed country road
where the shoulder was missing and there was a foot long hole where
the cement was missing. A very sharp point was jutting out and my
inside part of my rim caught it, wasting my front rim and warping the
rear rim. It felt like a I hit a bad train track. I slowed down, but
saw nothing behind me, thought nothing of it, until a block from work,
the front end started shaking. My front tire started losing 1/2 it's
air. Pulled the ION into the shop and they pulled the rims. Sure
enough, front rim flanged out about 5 inches, rear warped and un-
reparable. Called Progre**ive and they said it's not covered under
comp as road holes aren't covered and it wasn't a collision, WTF? time
for a new ins. co. Called SC DOT, filed a repot, they said file a
bunch of reports and I "may" be reimbursed. I went over and showed
them many pics I took of the road damage and they patched the hole
that day. I'll be sending the pics along with my report. The roads in
upper SC s-u-c-k and I'm not too thrilled of the idea of having
delicate girly-man rims again, bad combo. My tech said that as the
damage was to the side of the rims, the tires aren't damaged, yet
there is over $570. (my discount cost) damage. I have to pay out of
pocket as I need my car and then to wait 'till SC DOT "may" pay for
it. I really am regretting buying alloys again. -- marx404
Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.saturn
From: "marx404" <4...@404.com>
I'm getting to really hate Saturn Alloy rims. My '94 and '02 had
slightly
warped rims that had to be road-force balanced to keep the ride
perfectly
smooth, a driving need that I'm un-conditional about. Those rims were
warped
by the previous owners, I bought the cars used. Thought now that I
have a
brand new car, I wouldn't have that problem anymore...right.

The other day while off to work, I hit a spot in the road, a very
narrow
high-speed country road where the shoulder was missing and there was a
foot
long hole where the cement was missing. A very sharp point was jutting
out
and my inside part of my rim caught it, wasting my front rim and
warping the
rear rim. It felt like a I hit a bad train track. I slowed down, but
saw
nothing behind me, thought nothing of it, until a block from work, the
front
end started shaking.

My front tire started losing 1/2 it's air. Pulled the ION into the
shop and
they pulled the rims. Sure enough, front rim flanged out about 5
inches,
rear warped and un-reparable. Called Progre**ive and they said it's
not
covered under comp as road holes aren't covered and it wasn't a
collision,
WTF? time for a new ins. co.

Called SC DOT, filed a repot, they said file a bunch of reports and I
"may"
be reimbursed. I went over and showed them many pics I took of the
road
damage and they patched the hole that day. I'll be sending the pics
along
with my report. The roads in upper SC s-u-c-k and I'm not too
thrilled of
the idea of having delicate girly-man rims again, bad combo.

My tech said that as the damage was to the side of the rims, the
tires
aren't damaged, yet there is over $570. (my discount cost) damage. I
have to
pay out of pocket as I need my car and then to wait 'till SC DOT "may"
pay
for it.

I really am regretting buying alloys again.

Box134 View profile
Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.saturn
From: Box134 <m...@wooky.invalid>
I have the "Service Engine Soon" indicator lit up in my 1996 SL2
(124,000
km). Being a good conscientious owner I took it to the dealer to
remedy the
situation.

The young man labored over his computer and the service writer quizzed
me
about when I'd last fuelled up. (I'd already checked the fuel tank cap
for
tightness.) They had no definite diagnosis except that it was code
P0440,
Evap system.

So they cleared the code and sent me on my way, saying if it re-
appeared to
return. I didn't even make it out of the auto park before "Service
Engine
Soon" was back, so I returned.

Well, they'd have to do a longer diagnostic a "smoke test." 99.9
percent of
the time it was a loose gas tank cap, they said.

I haven't had time to leave the car again, but I pictured a smoke test
to
have something to do with exhaust gases. However, I now think they may
use
smoke to test for air leaks in the evaporation system.

Anyhow, has anyone:

1. Had that error code.
2. Had a smoke test.

HyperCube33 (Life2Death) View profileOver the day it's been
stumbling and wont start. The starter wont even budge and finally
it'll barely kick over. I'll check my oil, and is there any way I can
test the battery with a standard voltmeter? And lucky me, I am broke
and only have enough extra cash to replace my brakes, but I guess if
my car wont start I cant really go do that tomorrow. -- ===========
Life2Death ===========

Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.saturn
From: "HyperCube33 $Life2Death$" <hypercube[11x3]@hotmail.com>
Over the day it's been stumbling and wont start. The starter wont even
budge
and finally it'll barely kick over. I'll check my oil, and is there
any way
I can test the battery with a standard voltmeter?

And lucky me, I am broke and only have enough extra cash to replace
my
brakes, but I guess if my car wont start I cant really go do that
tomorrow.

--
===========
Life2Death

Our Saturn 2002 SL2 starting having problems turning the ignition key
in the lock.

Finally, no amount of jiggling, wheel turning, and attempting to
shift
could get it to turn.

Locksmith made a new "factory" key that works fine on all doors, but
still no luck. Then he replaced the lock with a new one from Saturn
(2 days to get it shipped in).

It worked to drive home, but the next morning, it was stuck again.
The same locksmith could not get it to turn until he took it apart
and
put it back together. He never found a problem. Curious, he tried
the old lock again, and it worked!?!

I've seen complaints of the column lock locking while driving. In
any
case, there's too much risk of getting stuck somewhere to drive it
out
of town.

Anyone know what is going on?

Thanks,
Bruce

My wife's Saturn is drinking oil like mad. It has 118k miles and used
up
exactly one quart on a 400 mile trip yesterday. Now thats just too
damn
much for a days worth of driving. I should not have to add oil and
gas
at the same ratio.

Doing some searching says the PCV valve could be at fault. I'll try
replacing that and see if the consumption changes.

Adam

WG...@webtv.net View profileThe engine seems to be Hot all the
time, real HOT. But the temp gauge is showing a normal reading. Should
I be concerned about this, or is it normal for this car? Thanks!!
More options Aug 2, 7:57 pm

Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.saturn
From: WG...@webtv.net
The engine seems to be Hot all the time, real HOT. But the temp gauge
is
showing a normal reading. Should I be concerned about this, or is it
normal for this car? Thanks!!

Dooger View profile
From: Dooger <doo...@wildblue.net>
Subject: '96 SL Cooling Fan Not Working
I looked around for the sensor and/or relays that might control the
fan
but didn't find anything in a short look. I don't have a repair or
service manual for this car. Can anyone point me to where to look for
the
"stuff" that makes the fan work. Later I'll test the fan itself to
see if
it it faulty. I have a '97 parts car that may have a good fan and
most
likely wil have the controlls still good. That car was wrecked in
the
left front and I haven't had a chance to see if the fan survived the
crash
or not. Anyone know if the '97 parts will work on the '96 car?

JHOLMBE...@COX.NET View profile
Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.saturn
Subject: WARNING LIGHTS 2002 SATURN
To All,

This morning I started the car to go to work after letting it sit for
a little over a week. The car started fine and all of the engine
warning lights, the fuel light, the battery light, security light
came
on, the spedometer didn't work, gas showed emplty even though it is
full, the tach. didn't work. So which electrcial part needs to be
replaced or do I need to put in a new battery, since it is the
original?

Thank you all for your assistance.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 11 2007 9:57 am
From: "John Weiss"

<misterfact@yahoo.com> wrote...
>I have a 95 SL1 and one of the rear doors cannot
> be opened from the inside, but works fine opening
> the outside handle/lock. Anyone familiar with
> what might be wrong? Are there 2 seperate cables
> in the locking mechanism? Might something just
> need greasing or is it gone? I would like to know
> somewhat the damages before I take it into the
> dealer or my regular repair shop.

Is the "kiddie lock" (probably near the latch on the back edge of the door)
engaged and/or broken? When engaged, it does exactly that -- prevents kids
(and anyone else) from opening the door from the inside.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 11 2007 10:34 am
From: Vic Smith

On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 09:52:58 -0700, "misterfact@yahoo.com"
<misterfact@yahoo.com> wrote:

Smells like Steve Scharf (SMS).

In any case, there's Saturn and GM and autos.tech groups which will
kick your ass, which you appear to desire.
People here are fairly polite - and not known for car expertise.

--Vic

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 11 2007 10:36 am
From: Al Bundy

misterfact@yahoo.com wrote:
> I have a 95 SL1 and one of the rear doors cannot
> be opened from the inside, but works fine opening
> the outside handle/lock. Anyone familiar with
> what might be wrong? Are there 2 seperate cables
> in the locking mechanism? Might something just
> need greasing or is it gone? I would like to know
> somewhat the damages before I take it into the
> dealer or my regular repair shop.
>
> Thanks.....
>
Forgive me, but I couldn't bear to read through the entire tail of
woe and intrigue. I believe you have posted this or pieces of it
elsewhere and didn't like the answers. I still suggest a car site
would offer more technical solutions though. I have seen this rear
door problem before.

You have a 12 year old vehicle with 124K I believe you said. Cars age
like people. Some have heart attacks early and die. Others have
chronic illnesses that make one glad they have insurance. You are
footing the bill for some heavy repairs on a vehicle that is not worth
much in my book. I don't care what KBB says about it. A 12 year old
car ain't worth much to me. And one that has a history of under
performing as yours does would soon be replaced if it were mine.
Beyond a certain point, I refuse to overhaul the tranny or go deep
into the engine because more stuff can come along and you are
committed to doing that too after spending so much. Some cars and
trucks just don't ever seem to let you down. I'm willing to move on
until I'm riding in one of those.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Fashion Footwear Industrial Co.,Ltd(Fujian,CHINA) www.fashion-sky.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/50b925f041ae2e72?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 11 2007 10:08 am
From: fashion-sky@hotmail.com

Dear my friend
It is our pleasure to meet you here.
we are wholesaler sport shoes,clothing,electrons in Fujian of China.
our website: http://www.fashion-sky.com
We are professional and honest wholesaler of all kinds of brand
sneaks and apparel.the products
our company supply are as follows:
1).Nike Jordans
Jordan 1 jordan 1.5 jordan 2 jordan 3 jordan 3.5 jordan 4 jordan 5
jordan 5.5 jordan 6 jordan 6.5 jordan 7 jordan 8 jordan 9 jordan 9.5
jordan 10 jordan 11 jordan 12 jordan 13 jordan 13.5 jordan 14 jordan
15 jordan 16 jordan 17 jordan 18 jordan 18.5 jordan 19 jordan 20
jordan 21 jordan 21.5 jordan 22 jordan King jordan Dub Zero Jordan 23
Jordan 7.5
2).Air Force One Air Force one (low) Air Force one (High) Air Force
one (Mid) Air Force one (clear) Air Force One 25 year
3).SHOX Shox R3 Shox R4 Shox R5 Shox TL1 Shox TL2 Shox TL3 Shox NZ
Shox OZ Shox Turbo Show GO Shox CL Shox Coqnescenti Shox Energia Shox
Explodine Shox Monster Shox Rhythmic Shox Warrior
4).Bape Shoes Bape Bape (transparent)
5).Air max AirMax 90 AirMax 95 AirMax 97 AirMax 2003 AirMax 2004
AirMax 2005 Air Max 2006 AirMax 180 AirMax LTD AirMax TN AirMax solas
AirMax 87 AirMax Rift
6).Puma Puma Rpt2 Puma SK6 Puma Jayfi Puma Cir Puma Speed Puma Repli
Puma Future Cat Puma Mostro Puma Lifestyle
7).Dunk SB Dunk High Dunk Low
8).Timberland Timberland High Timberland Low
9).Adidas Adidas 35 Adicolor Country city sense Adidas NBA
11).Prada & Gucci Prada Gucci
12).Footballer Shoes Footballer
13).Locaste
14).converse & Reebok converse Reebok
15).D&G shoes
16).Dsquared2 shoes
17).James shoes
18).Nike King
9).Children shoes Jordan Shox
20).Women shoes Women Jordans Women Shox R3 Women Shox R4 Women AirMax
95&97 Women AirMax 03&06 Women Dunk Women Shox NZ Women AF1
21).sandal & baboosh Nike Puma Gucci Prada
CLOTHES 1).Bape 2).ED Hardy 3).BBC 4).CLH 5).LRG 6).Artful Dodger
Hoodies 7).GINO GREEN GLOBAL 8).10 Deep 9).A&F Coat 11).Jersey NBA
Jersey Football Jersey 12).Juicy Bikini 13).Adidas Coat 14).F1 Coat
15).D&G Coat 16).Superman Coat 17).NBA Coat
JEAN 1).E&D Jeans 2).BBC Jeans 3).BAPE Jeans 4).D&G Jeans 5).EVSIU
Jeans 6).Red monkey 7).COOGI Jeans
T-shirt 1).POLO 2007 polo(women) 2007 POLO IIII(Men) POLO (stripe)
polo (small )
2).Lacoste Lacoste (LONG) Lacoste (SHORT) 3).Name Brand shirt D&G
Shirt Giorgio Armani TN Shirt 4).BBC T-shirt 5).LRG & gina green
glalal 6).Triumvir 7).ED handy 8).Evsiu 9).R.M.B 10).CLOT
Burse & Handbag 1).LV Bag 2).Gucci Bag 3).Dior Bag 4).Chanel Bag
5).Fendi Bag 6).Coach Bag 7).Burberrys Bag 8).Prada Bag 9).Man Leisure
Bag 11).D&G bag 12).nike bag 13).Wallet 14).Suitcase
Electronics 1).Vertu Mobile 2).New iphone Mobile 3).Nokia Mobile
4).moto Mobile 5).PSP Game & memory card 6).Sony Mobile 7).Samsung
Mobile 8).Ipod nano 9).Sony PS3 10).Laptops IBM laptops DELL laptops
Sony laptops ASUS laptops
CAP 1).ED Hardy Cap 2).New Bape & NY Cap 3).RMC Cap 4).New era NBA
5).F1 6).Chanel 7).D&G 8).gucci 9).LV 10).Prada 11).PUMA 12).wool
WATCH 1).Rolex 2).Omega 3).Cartier 4).Chanel 5).Piaget 6).Breitling
7).Bvlgari 8).Corum
Sunglasses 1).Gucci Sunglasses 2).D&G Sunglasses 3).Dior Sunglasses
4).LV Sunglasses 5).Chanel Sunglasses 6).Prada Sunglasses 7).Versace
Sunglasses 8).Giorgio Armani
Strap 1).Bape Strap 2).D&G Strap 3).Gucci Strap 4).LV Strap 5).Scarf
Other 1).Lighter

size chart
Men Size:
US: 7 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 11.5 12 13 14 15
UK: 6 7 7.5 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 12 13 14
EUR: 40 41 42 42.5 43 44 44.5 45 45.5 46 47.5 48 49
Women Size:
US: 5 5.5 6 6.5 7 7.5 8 8.5
UK: 2.5 3 3.5 4 4.5 5 5.5 6
EUR: 35.5 36 36.5 37.5 38 38.5 39 40

Kid's
US: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 7.5 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 11.5 12 12.5 13 13.5
UK: 13 1 2 3 4 5 6 6.5 7 7.5 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 11.5 12 12.5
EUR:17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 24.5 25 25.5 26 26.5 27 27.5 28 29 30 30.5
31

Clothing Size:
S M L XL XXL XXXL XXXXL XXXXXL

7.because the space of the website is limited,we can also supply many
other products which be not showed out in our site. if you have the
photos of the products you need , we are pleasure to supply for your
orders.
And our company can supply for our customers ,as follow:
1. top quality.all our products have top quality.
2. most rational price. we offer the most competitive price to you to
open your market. So today most of our products have sold well in the
America, Europe, Middle East, Southeast Asia etc..
3. safe and fast shipment. As different country you are in, we will
deliver the products to you by different ways and pledge to arrive to
your address 100%.and we will send the products to you within 24h
after we get your payment.
4.many products in stock. We have many products in stock and kinds of
size you need , also include kid's.
5.our credit. If the products can be not delivered to your address as
our reason, we will refund the money you paid.
Hope sincerely to have glad and long term business relationship with
you.
If you are interested in our products and have any problem, welcome
to
contact us.
Please trust us , we will be your best choice !!!
Website : http://www.fashion-sky.com
MSN and E-mail: fashion-sky@hotmail.com
Yahoo ID:mallinchina@yahoo.com.cn
Michael
Fashion Footwear Industrial Co.,Ltd.(Fujian,CHINA)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: wholesale sport shoes,clothing,electronics in china www.shopbb.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/820ce523de981289?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 11 2007 10:09 am
From: "shopbb.com"

Dear my friend
It is our pleasure to meet you here.
we are wholesaler sport shoes,clothing,electrons in Fujian of China.
our website: http://www.shopbb.com
We are professional and honest wholesaler of all kinds of brand
sneaks and apparel.the products
our company supply are as follows:
1).Nike Jordans
Jordan 1 jordan 1.5 jordan 2 jordan 3 jordan 3.5 jordan 4 jordan 5
jordan 5.5 jordan 6 jordan 6.5 jordan 7 jordan 8 jordan 9 jordan 9.5
jordan 10 jordan 11 jordan 12 jordan 13 jordan 13.5 jordan 14 jordan
15 jordan 16 jordan 17 jordan 18 jordan 18.5 jordan 19 jordan 20
jordan 21 jordan 21.5 jordan 22 jordan King jordan Dub Zero Jordan 23
Jordan 7.5
2).Air Force One Air Force one (low) Air Force one (High) Air Force
one (Mid) Air Force one (clear) Air Force One 25 year
3).SHOX Shox R3 Shox R4 Shox R5 Shox TL1 Shox TL2 Shox TL3 Shox NZ
Shox OZ Shox Turbo Show GO Shox CL Shox Coqnescenti Shox Energia Shox
Explodine Shox Monster Shox Rhythmic Shox Warrior
4).Bape Shoes Bape Bape (transparent)
5).Air max AirMax 90 AirMax 95 AirMax 97 AirMax 2003 AirMax 2004
AirMax 2005 Air Max 2006 AirMax 180 AirMax LTD AirMax TN AirMax solas
AirMax 87 AirMax Rift
6).Puma Puma Rpt2 Puma SK6 Puma Jayfi Puma Cir Puma Speed Puma Repli
Puma Future Cat Puma Mostro Puma Lifestyle
7).Dunk SB Dunk High Dunk Low
8).Timberland Timberland High Timberland Low
9).Adidas Adidas 35 Adicolor Country city sense Adidas NBA
11).Prada & Gucci Prada Gucci
12).Footballer Shoes Footballer
13).Locaste
14).converse & Reebok converse Reebok
15).D&G shoes
16).Dsquared2 shoes
17).James shoes
18).Nike King
9).Children shoes Jordan Shox
20).Women shoes Women Jordans Women Shox R3 Women Shox R4 Women AirMax
95&97 Women AirMax 03&06 Women Dunk Women Shox NZ Women AF1
21).sandal & baboosh Nike Puma Gucci Prada
CLOTHES 1).Bape 2).ED Hardy 3).BBC 4).CLH 5).LRG 6).Artful Dodger
Hoodies 7).GINO GREEN GLOBAL 8).10 Deep 9).A&F Coat 11).Jersey NBA
Jersey Football Jersey 12).Juicy Bikini 13).Adidas Coat 14).F1 Coat
15).D&G Coat 16).Superman Coat 17).NBA Coat
JEAN 1).E&D Jeans 2).BBC Jeans 3).BAPE Jeans 4).D&G Jeans 5).EVSIU
Jeans 6).Red monkey 7).COOGI Jeans
T-shirt 1).POLO 2007 polo(women) 2007 POLO IIII(Men) POLO (stripe)
polo (small )
2).Lacoste Lacoste (LONG) Lacoste (SHORT) 3).Name Brand shirt D&G
Shirt Giorgio Armani TN Shirt 4).BBC T-shirt 5).LRG & gina green
glalal 6).Triumvir 7).ED handy 8).Evsiu 9).R.M.B 10).CLOT
Burse & Handbag 1).LV Bag 2).Gucci Bag 3).Dior Bag 4).Chanel Bag
5).Fendi Bag 6).Coach Bag 7).Burberrys Bag 8).Prada Bag 9).Man Leisure
Bag 11).D&G bag 12).nike bag 13).Wallet 14).Suitcase
Electronics 1).Vertu Mobile 2).New iphone Mobile 3).Nokia Mobile
4).moto Mobile 5).PSP Game & memory card 6).Sony Mobile 7).Samsung
Mobile 8).Ipod nano 9).Sony PS3 10).Laptops IBM laptops DELL laptops
Sony laptops ASUS laptops
CAP 1).ED Hardy Cap 2).New Bape & NY Cap 3).RMC Cap 4).New era NBA
5).F1 6).Chanel 7).D&G 8).gucci 9).LV 10).Prada 11).PUMA 12).wool
WATCH 1).Rolex 2).Omega 3).Cartier 4).Chanel 5).Piaget 6).Breitling
7).Bvlgari 8).Corum
Sunglasses 1).Gucci Sunglasses 2).D&G Sunglasses 3).Dior Sunglasses
4).LV Sunglasses 5).Chanel Sunglasses 6).Prada Sunglasses 7).Versace
Sunglasses 8).Giorgio Armani
Strap 1).Bape Strap 2).D&G Strap 3).Gucci Strap 4).LV Strap 5).Scarf
Other 1).Lighter

Clothing Size:
S M L XL XXL XXXL XXXXL XXXXXL

7.because the space of the website is limited,we can also supply many
other products which be not showed out in our site. if you have the
photos of the products you need , we are pleasure to supply for your
orders.
And our company can supply for our customers ,as follow:
1. top quality.all our products have top quality.
2. most rational price. we offer the most competitive price to you to
open your market. So today most of our products have sold well in the
America, Europe, Middle East, Southeast Asia etc..
3. safe and fast shipment. As different country you are in, we will
deliver the products to you by different ways and pledge to arrive to
your address 100%.and we will send the products to you within 24h
after we get your payment.
4.many products in stock. We have many products in stock and kinds of
size you need , also include kid's.
5.our credit. If the products can be not delivered to your address as
our reason, we will refund the money you paid.
Hope sincerely to have glad and long term business relationship with
you.
If you are interested in our products and have any problem, welcome
to
contact us.
Please trust us , we will be your best choice !!!
Website : http://www.shopbb.com
MSN and E-mail: shopbb@hotmail.com
Yahoo ID:mallinchina@yahoo.com.cn
Michael

==============================================================================
TOPIC: wholesale nike,jordan series,adidas,max,t-shirt,jean,handbag,watch,
children shoes
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8ef7d9b334d3537e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 11 2007 10:43 am
From: chinashoesaaa@gmail.com

we are Chinashoesaaa International Trade Co.,Ltd in Fujian of China.We
are very professional supplier of selling Brand shoes such as
Nike,Jordan,Adidas,Puma,or more Air Max,Air Force1,Shox,Dunk,and so
on,also T-shirt,jean,Watch,Sunglasses,Hat,Handbag in hot sell. We
offer grade a quality product only. Our products are authentic quality
with original box. And most products displayed on our website are
available and have stocks here. We offer very special prices to our
customer (price depends on your quantity).. Very fast and safety
delivery by TNT, DHL OR EMS, we can delivery within 24 hours upon
receiving your payment. It is very safe door to door service, never
get problems with customs. If you have any questions, please feel free
to contact us. We accept small orders! if you are interested in our
goods,you can contact us by email,or you can leave words on our
website,also you can contact me with msn,our MSN ID is
chinashoesaaa,Yahoo ID is chinashoesaaa,please feel free to contact
us.Please go to our website for more details.I am looking forward to
do business with you for long-term.

Our Website:http://www.chinashoesaaa.com
Email Address:chinashoesaaa@yahoo.com.cn
For the best,please send email to me,waiting for your early
reply,thank you for your cooperation.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Our Website:http://www.chinashoesaaa.com
Email Address:chinashoesaaa@yahoo.com.cn
For the best,please send email to me,waiting for your early
reply,thank you for your cooperation.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 11 2007 10:49 am
From: chinashoesaaa@gmail.com

On Sep 12, 1:43 am, chinashoes...@gmail.com wrote:
> we are Chinashoesaaa International Trade Co.,Ltd in Fujian of China.We
> are very professional supplier of selling Brand shoes such as
> Nike,Jordan,Adidas,Puma,or more Air Max,Air Force1,Shox,Dunk,and so
> on,also T-shirt,jean,Watch,Sunglasses,Hat,Handbag in hot sell. We
> offer grade a quality product only. Our products are authentic quality
> with original box. And most products displayed on our website are
> available and have stocks here. We offer very special prices to our
> customer (price depends on your quantity).. Very fast and safety
> delivery by TNT, DHL OR EMS, we can delivery within 24 hours upon
> receiving your payment. It is very safe door to door service, never
> get problems with customs. If you have any questions, please feel free
> to contact us. We accept small orders! if you are interested in our
> goods,you can contact us by email,or you can leave words on our
> website,also you can contact me with msn,our MSN ID is
> chinashoesaaa,Yahoo ID is chinashoesaaa,please feel free to contact
> us.Please go to our website for more details.I am looking forward to
> do business with you for long-term.
>
> Our Website:http://www.chinashoesaaa.com
> Email Address:chinashoes...@yahoo.com.cn
> For the best,please send email to me,waiting for your early
> reply,thank you for your cooperation.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> we are Chinashoesaaa International Trade Co.,Ltd in Fujian of China.We
> are very professional supplier of selling Brand shoes such as
> Nike,Jordan,Adidas,Puma,or more Air Max,Air Force1,Shox,Dunk,and so
> on,also T-shirt,jean,Watch,Sunglasses,Hat,Handbag in hot sell. We
> offer grade a quality product only. Our products are authentic quality
> with original box. And most products displayed on our website are
> available and have stocks here. We offer very special prices to our
> customer (price depends on your quantity).. Very fast and safety
> delivery by TNT, DHL OR EMS, we can delivery within 24 hours upon
> receiving your payment. It is very safe door to door service, never
> get problems with customs. If you have any questions, please feel free
> to contact us. We accept small orders! if you are interested in our
> goods,you can contact us by email,or you can leave words on our
> website,also you can contact me with msn,our MSN ID is
> chinashoesaaa,Yahoo ID is chinashoesaaa,please feel free to contact
> us.Please go to our website for more details.I am looking forward to
> do business with you for long-term.
>
> Our Website:http://www.chinashoesaaa.com
> Email Address:chinashoes...@yahoo.com.cn
> For the best,please send email to me,waiting for your early
> reply,thank you for your cooperation.

==============================================================================

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Frugal Living

Blog Archive

Tuesday, September 11, 2007

25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

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