Frugal Living: 22 new messages in 11 topics

Saturday, November 17, 2007

22 new messages in 11 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Dump the Dollar, China State TV Tells Viewers
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7ae0cbeede57b9a7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 16 2007 5:18 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Democracy Highlander <nospam_example_com@yahoo.com> wrote
> phil scott wrote

>> i hear you... however china will pull its punches because those
>> would easily take out the world economy, hurting china badly.

> Well, this is quite a misconception. The popular myth that China
> need US as a market to survive does not have any backing.

Corse it does.

> Let assume that tomorrow China decide to dump all
> US dollars they have and stop any trading with US.

They aint that stupid.

> 1. Dollar is going to fall. As a result, more other
> countries holding large US reserves will start to get
> out of their dollars too accelerating the collapse.

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you dont have a clue about how it works.

> 2. In last 10 years US corporations dismantled their US
> factories and moved them to China in quest for cheap labor.

Wrong again. The absolute vast bulk of factorys in China werent
built there by US manufacturers, they just buy what is produced
in chinese factorys, most obviously with the likes of Walmart etc.

> For example, today over 95% of all our clothing are imported.

Yes, but that isnt produced in US factorys in china.

> Around 70% from China if I remember well.

No you dont.

> The trade freeze between US and china

Taint gunna happen.

> will create a scarcity of clothes.

Mindlessly silly, it would produce a surplus of clothes because
what is currently being sold to the US has nowhere to go, stupid.

> The demand (stay the same)

Wont happen either. Clothes arent a necessity, people can vary their
purchases as circumstances change, keep their clothes for longer etc.

> will overpass the supply (30% of the original)

Mindlessly silly again.

> and this is going to make prices for clothes to skyrocket, aka inflation.

You wouldnt know what a real skyrocket was if one was fired up your lard arse.

What would actually happen is that the non china suppliers of clothes would be
happy to sell more to the US if china was actually stupid enough to refuse to
sell to the US anymore. And china aint anything like that stupid, even if you are.

> The inflation will weaken the dollar even more.

Pathetic.

> 3. The US corporations with factories in China

There are fuck all of those.

> want to go out, but the Chinese government say: "You either
> stay and play by OUR rules or we nationalize the factories.

They cant nationalise factorys that dont even exist.

AND they aint actually stupid enough to nationalise factorys anymore either.

> You can leave but all the equipment STAY here with the workers".

Just another of your silly little drug crazed fantasys.

> China factories will keep the same level of production
> while selling the coats directly on oil to Iran, Venezuela
> and other not quite US friendly regimes.

Which buy fuck all clothes compared with what the US buys.

> 4. Due to big drop in dollar, OPEC countries are going
> to decide to switch out of the dollar as oil currency.
> Due to the chaotic times, it is very likely that oil
> countries will prefer goods for oil instead of money.

Mindlessly silly, at most they will use other currencys instead.

> Most of what we call now "US companies"
> have their production facilities in China.

Yes, but they dont actually own those factorys there,
they just buy what they sell from chinese factorys now.

> China is going to have exports to buy oil thanks to "US corporations",

Its going to be able to buy a lot less oil if it cant sell anything to the US anymore.

> US have first to rebuild their factories from scratch.

Mindlessly silly. They just start buying from other factorys if
china was actually stupid enough to stop selling to the US.

> And the oil required to rebuild them ..... is nowhere to be found.

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have
never ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.

> 5. The switch from dollars to barter for oil

Taint gunna happen. The most that might happen
is that other international currencys are used
instead of the USD if the USD sags badly enough.

> will prompt every other country to dump the dollars as fast as they can.

Mindlessly silly.

> The 95% of drop predicted by Bill may not be far away
> from the truth once US economy collapse entirely.

Taint gunna happen, you watch.

> Keep in mind that production is what create raw value.

No such animal.

> Trade just move raw value from one place into another to get more
> raw value created by somebody else by exploiting a local scarcity.

Not a fucking clue.

> The country having the biggest production capacity
> is the country that is going to rule the world.

It aint been about the production of goods for a hell of a long time now.

> It was the production capacity of US what won the WWII.

Yes, but there wont be another world war, nukes changed that forever.

> One may ask:
> "But if China crash US economy what they will gain in
> exchange for all the dollars they are going to lose?"

Corse they wont. Which is why they aint actually stupid
enough to do what you so mindlessly hyperventilate about.

> Well, first of all Chine already "bought" a lot
> of US factories with the money they still have.

Pig ignorant lie. They just built their own.

> Yes, by exploiting the mindless corporate greed, China
> was able to have the cake and eat it in the same time.

Pig ignorant lie. AND they got USD for what they produced, so
they will have just a tad of a problem if the USD plummets, stupid.

> The assets located in China will be Chinese assets as soon as China wants it.

They are ALREADY chinese assets, fool.

> The ownership paper for those "investments"

There is fuck all of those.

> will worth less than his weight in toilet paper. China ALREADY
> bought production assets while still holding on those money.

Which just happens to be mostly USD, because thats who
bought the bulk of the production of those factorys, stupid.

Which might just be why the yuan is locked to the USD, stupid.

> Wealth it is the amount of goods and services one can afford.

Wrong. Real wealth aint about what you can buy in goods and services.

> If all the factories producing now for US will start working
> for China, the Chinese will be able to afford to buy a lot
> more while Americans will be able to consume a lot less.

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you dont have a clue about how it works.

> The balance of wealth will reverse with a flip of a switch !!!!

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you dont have a clue about how it works.

If it was that easy, they'd do that, cretin.

> US will become a third world country

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you dont have a clue about how it works.

> (until we are able to rebuild all the production capacity lost)

Doesnt need to be rebuilt, just start buying from other than china, stupid.

> and China an advanced nation.

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you dont have a clue about how it works.

> US military is the best in the world because of over
> 50 years US had wealth to spend to build it that way.

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you dont have a clue about how it works.

And it continues to be the best in the world, even when the US
imports the bulk of what it consumes in manufactured goods.

If you can work out why that is so, you might just have a glimmer of a
clue about how things actually work outside your drug crazed fantasyland.

> It was the US economy backing the US military might and not anything else.

It was the strength of the US economy that ALLOWED
it to spend part of the GDP on that military system, fool.

> Collapse US economy

Taint gunna happen.

> and in 10 years US military will be almost irrelevant
> in the world, except for the stockpile of nukes.

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you dont have a clue about how it works.

> So, China will win the war for the new world domination.

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you dont have a clue about how it works.

> This is what they have to gain while not loosing anything.

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you dont have a clue about how it works.

> The single reason China still maintain the current status quo to keep attracting more investments.

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you dont have a clue about how it works.

The chinese economy doesnt depend on foreign investment anymore, fool.

It actually depends on exports to foreign countrys now.

AND they arent actually stupid enough to kill that by stopping trading with the US either.

> To foul more idiotic corporations to dismantle US factories and give it as gift to them.

That aint how the current chinese factorys were built.

> Once the majority of US production ability is moved offshore,

That happened LONG ago, and the US economy carried on fine regardless.

> the Chinese (and others) will have no single reason not to take
> offensive and win the "New War" without firing a single shoot.

Corse they do, they lose the exports that their economy depends on, fool.

> Corporate greed and the stupidity of conservative
> ideology are weapons China can use at will against US.

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you dont have a clue about how it works.

> Again: The single way to create new wealth is production.

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you dont have a clue about how it works.

> The "new service oriented economy" it is just a big lie
> intended to hide the truth that we are running off the cliff.

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you dont have a clue about how it works.

Manufactured goods havent been an important part of the US economy for a hell of a long time now.

Or any other modern first world economy either.

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 16 2007 5:20 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

PeterL <po.ning@gmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>> david_huang2...@hotmail.com wrote

>>> http://www.cnbc.com/id/21829883
>>> Chinese lunchtime television on Friday gave ordinary people
>>> a basic tip on how to play the currency markets: sell the dollar!

>> Hardly news, hordes have been doing that for a long time now.

>>> A state news program, quoting unnamed "wealth management
>>> experts," told residents with dollar accounts on the mainland to
>>> convert their holdings into yuan

>> Tad pointless given that the yuan is locked to the USD.

> It's a soft lock that can be changed anytime.

But while ever the bulk of their exports end up in the
US, it aint gunna change dramatically any time soon.

Its locked to the USD for a reason.

>>> or a range of other foreign currencies,
>>> including the pound and the euro.
>>> The prospect of ordinary Chinese ditching the dollar should
>>> be less alarming than reports that have roiled global markets
>>> of Beijing diversifying its official foreign exchange reserves.

>> That aint the problem.

>>> ________________
>>> Expect higher inflation rate, Americans!

>> Wont be the end of civilisation as we know it any time soon.

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 16 2007 5:27 pm
From:

In article <1384650.ToEOr28pd4@q787895.example.com>,
nospam_example_com@yahoo.com says...

> 2. In last 10 years US corporations dismantled their US factories and moved
> them to China in quest for cheap labor. For example, today over 95% of all
> our clothing are imported. Around 70% from China if I remember well.
> The trade freeze between US and china will create a scarcity of clothes. The
> demand (stay the same) will overpass the supply (30% of the original) and
> this is going to make prices for clothes to skyrocket, aka inflation. The
> inflation will weaken the dollar even more.

While a weak dollar would make imports more expensive in the U.S., it
would also make U.S. manufactured goods more affordable overseas.
Despite the widely-reported death of U.S. manufacturing, our
manufacturing output is actually continuing to increase despite the
overvaluation of the dollar. If the dollar falls to a more rational
value, expect growth of U.S. manufacturing and a reduction in our
dependence on artificially-cheap foreign oil.

For clothing in particular, China has no monopoly on cheap clothing
production; a trade freeze with China would lead to greater imports from
India, Pakistan, Honduras, etc., not simply a reduction in clothing
supply to the U.S.

> 4. Due to big drop in dollar, OPEC countries are going to decide to switch
> out of the dollar as oil currency. Due to the chaotic times, it is very
> likely that oil countries will prefer goods for oil instead of money.

The prospect of international petroleum reverting to a barter economy is
laughably remote. Far more likely is a more diversified currency basket
replacing overdependence on the dollar.

> Keep in mind that production is what create raw value. Trade just move raw
> value from one place into another to get more raw value created by somebody
> else by exploiting a local scarcity. The country having the biggest
> production capacity is the country that is going to rule the world. It was
> the production capacity of US what won the WWII.

A modern reincarnation of socialism's labor theory of value? Ignore all
factors that you disagree with philosophically, and try to make the math
work with the variables you have left.

What creates value is providing a good or service that someone wants to
buy. The U.S. is pretty good at both.

--
josh@phred.org is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/>
Braze your own bicycle frames. See
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/build/build.html>

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 16 2007 5:58 pm
From: Democracy Highlander

josh@phred.org wrote:

> While a weak dollar would make imports more expensive in the U.S., it
> would also make U.S. manufactured goods more affordable overseas.

US manufactured goods ?

Go at Home Depot and look how many circular saws "made in USA" you can find.
Go into a toy store and look for Mattel. Go at Target and look at clothes.
The antibacterial cream I used 1 minutes ago in made in Korea, the mouse
and keyboard in China, computer mainboard in in Taiwan while the chair and
TV in China.....

> Despite the widely-reported death of U.S. manufacturing, our
> manufacturing output is actually continuing to increase despite the
> overvaluation of the dollar.

Go into a department store. Common, try for a month to not use any made in
China product and let us know about your nude experience in the office.

> The prospect of international petroleum reverting to a barter economy is
> laughably remote. Far more likely is a more diversified currency basket
> replacing overdependence on the dollar.

I simplified the scenario. EU will not be happy with big Euro vs. dollar
ratio so will start to act, Japanese the same. In the end, a new standard
based on direct goods/oil conversion may emerge and I used a simplification
calling it barter. But if a total international trade meltdown happen, even
a real barter may not be unexpected.

> What creates value is providing a good or service that someone wants to
> buy. The U.S. is pretty good at both.

Belief based empty confidence.

--
The world of the future will be fully democratic or will not be at all.

Democracy Highlander

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 16 2007 6:04 pm
From: Spehro Pefhany

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 12:20:56 +1100, the renowned "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>PeterL <po.ning@gmail.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>> david_huang2...@hotmail.com wrote
>
>>>> http://www.cnbc.com/id/21829883
>>>> Chinese lunchtime television on Friday gave ordinary people
>>>> a basic tip on how to play the currency markets: sell the dollar!
>
>>> Hardly news, hordes have been doing that for a long time now.
>
>>>> A state news program, quoting unnamed "wealth management
>>>> experts," told residents with dollar accounts on the mainland to
>>>> convert their holdings into yuan
>
>>> Tad pointless given that the yuan is locked to the USD.
>
>> It's a soft lock that can be changed anytime.
>
>But while ever the bulk of their exports end up in the
>US, it aint gunna change dramatically any time soon.

If by "the bulk" you mean about 20%, you are correct.

http://www.forbes.com/markets/feeds/afx/2007/11/15/afx4346621.html

.. and dropping, along with the shrinking US dollar.

Since China's exports are 20% of her GDP, if US imports were to drop
to, say, half it would set them back 4% of GDP or about an entire
quarter's worth of growth.

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 16 2007 8:01 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Democracy Highlander <nospam_example_com@yahoo.com> wrote
> josh@phred.org wrote

>> While a weak dollar would make imports more expensive in the U.S., it
>> would also make U.S. manufactured goods more affordable overseas.

> US manufactured goods ?

Yep, like software, aircraft, etc etc etc.

> Go at Home Depot and look how many circular saws "made in USA"
> you can find. Go into a toy store and look for Mattel. Go at Target
> and look at clothes. The antibacterial cream I used 1 minutes ago
> in made in Korea, the mouse and keyboard in China, computer
> mainboard in in Taiwan while the chair and TV in China.....

Pity about all the DVDs, CDs, PC software, etc etc etc.

And while there arent too many aircraft in places like that, even
someone as stupid as you should have noticed them flying around.

Quite a lot of cars still manufactured in the US too.

>> Despite the widely-reported death of U.S. manufacturing,
>> our manufacturing output is actually continuing to increase
>> despite the overvaluation of the dollar.

> Go into a department store. Common, try for a month
> to not use any made in China product and let us know
> about your nude experience in the office.

Trivial to do with cars, planes, software, etc etc etc.

>> The prospect of international petroleum reverting to a barter
>> economy is laughably remote. Far more likely is a more diversified
>> currency basket replacing overdependence on the dollar.

> I simplified the scenario.

You had your dick in your hand and were mindlessly hyperventilating.

> EU will not be happy with big Euro vs. dollar
> ratio so will start to act, Japanese the same.

They certainly wont be stupid enough to resort to barter.

> In the end, a new standard based on direct goods/oil conversion may emerge

Not a chance. At most more transactions may well be done using other currencys.

> and I used a simplification calling it barter.

Taint gunna be anything like barter, just different currencys being used at most.

> But if a total international trade meltdown happen,

Taint gunna happen.

> even a real barter may not be unexpected.

How odd that we didnt even get that during the great depression.

There might just be a reason why we didnt.

>> What creates value is providing a good or service that
>> someone wants to buy. The U.S. is pretty good at both.

> Belief based empty confidence.

Mindless pig ignorant drug crazed wanking in your case, as always.

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 16 2007 8:05 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> PeterL <po.ning@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> david_huang2...@hotmail.com wrote

>>>>> http://www.cnbc.com/id/21829883
>>>>> Chinese lunchtime television on Friday gave ordinary people
>>>>> a basic tip on how to play the currency markets: sell the dollar!

>>>> Hardly news, hordes have been doing that for a long time now.

>>>>> A state news program, quoting unnamed "wealth management
>>>>> experts," told residents with dollar accounts on the mainland to
>>>>> convert their holdings into yuan

>>>> Tad pointless given that the yuan is locked to the USD.

>>> It's a soft lock that can be changed anytime.

>> But while ever the bulk of their exports end up in the
>> US, it aint gunna change dramatically any time soon.

> If by "the bulk" you mean about 20%, you are correct.

> http://www.forbes.com/markets/feeds/afx/2007/11/15/afx4346621.html

> .. and dropping, along with the shrinking US dollar.

> Since China's exports are 20% of her GDP, if US imports were to drop to, say,
> half it would set them back 4% of GDP or about an entire quarter's worth of growth.

So the original mindless hyperventilation is clearly just that.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: WALLET WINDOWS -- Where to get better ones??
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/26cb3b69452e8d70?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 16 2007 5:37 pm
From: gheston@hiwaay.net (Gary Heston)

In article <13jqhu4bufurv7f@corp.supernews.com>,
DemoDisk <packrat@nospam.com> wrote:

>I use one of those tri-fold wallets that folds over the windows in the
>middle. When the original windows wore out, I found replacements at
>Wallyworld. They s*ck. The dang retaining flap for the windows gets
>accordioned up and won't go into its slot.

>Solution? Use an iron! Anyway, that's what I did; it's frugal and it
>worked, but I'd rather get better wallet windows to begin with.

Clever solution! Perhaps you can glue another thin piece of plastic
to the flap to stiffen it.

>Anyone know who makes/sells a better idea in wallet windows?

I bought my last set from a place called Mori Luggage and Gifts; they
may have a store near you. This set is holding up well.

http://www.moriluggage.com/content/17.htm

Gary

--
Gary Heston gheston@hiwaay.net

http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

Yoko Onos' former driver tried to extort $2M from her, threating to
"release embarassing recordings...". What, he has a copy of her album?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 11% inflation
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/305989c06e5c1309?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 16 2007 6:18 pm
From: timeOday

<http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN1532573220071115>

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. consumers will pay 11 percent more for the
traditional Thanksgiving meal this year, due in part to higher energy
costs, the American Farm Bureau Federation said on Thursday.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

How do the official inflation figures stay so low? Food, gas, health
care, travel, all shooting up in price.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 16 2007 11:18 pm
From: Anthony Matonak

timeOday wrote:
> <http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN1532573220071115>
>
> WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. consumers will pay 11 percent more for the
> traditional Thanksgiving meal this year, due in part to higher energy
> costs, the American Farm Bureau Federation said on Thursday.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> How do the official inflation figures stay so low? Food, gas, health
> care, travel, all shooting up in price.

These are statistics. Statistics can be manipulated.
In short, they cheat.

Anthony

==============================================================================
TOPIC: * * * Earn up to $100 per hour with your own home business. Join for
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4cf721b48069f842?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 16 2007 6:45 pm
From: C Kevin

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Auto Related - Gas Saving Tips
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/815dabf997589ba7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 16 2007 8:14 pm
From: Bill Rider

John Weiss wrote:
> "Lou" <lpogodajr292185@comcast.net> wrote...
>> I suppose that every car is different, and I suppose that it depends on what
>> your definition of "highway speeds" is (as fast as you possibly can or the
>> posted speed limit), but in my car on about an 80 mile a day drive, one
>> third local two thirds interstate, air conditioning uses more gas than
>> driving with the windows open - a lot more.
>
> My VW Passat wagon is one that uses a LOT less gas with the A/C on and the
> windows closed. I've tried it both ways, many times.
>
> Max with A/C is 27.5 at 70+; with windows open it's 25.
>
>
Why do you say max? Does it vary?

I wouldn't want to drive at 70 with windows wide open. I open front and
rear windows about 1/2". For me, that's usually as good as A/C and the
air seems to flow smoothly.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 16 2007 8:44 pm
From: "Joe"

>> I actually wear ear plugs in my CAR when I drive with the windows open...
>
> You would get a ticket in California, legal if you ware only one.

Did it in California this August... And NJ, PA, OH, IL, NE, WY, AZ, MN,
SD... Just didn't get caught. I believe the law says they can't be used
unless they are prescription or something like that...
--

Joe in Northern, NJ - V#8013-R

Currently Riding The "Mother Ship"
http://yunx.com/valk.htm

Ride a motorcycle in or near NJ?
http://tinyurl.com/5apkg

Hillary Exposed:
http://tinyurl.com/2v4avg

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 16 2007 8:46 pm
From: "Joe"

> I make a 19 mile run fairly often, have two routes of the almost the
> same distance. However, one route has a much greater number of red
> lights and stop signs than the other. Might be something you could
> also consider.

I've done this... to work route is all highway... Home route is NO highway
because all of the NYC-related traffic makes it not only 12 hour slower, but
more stops and all... Plus, 10 more miles.
--

Joe in Northern, NJ - V#8013-R

Currently Riding The "Mother Ship"
http://yunx.com/valk.htm

Ride a motorcycle in or near NJ?
http://tinyurl.com/5apkg

Hillary Exposed:
http://tinyurl.com/2v4avg

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 16 2007 9:20 pm
From: Bill Rider

Just A User wrote:

>>
> cleaning the throttle body will help, but more importantly put a FI
> cleaner in your tank every two or three fill ups.
>
> If you don't drive on the highway, make it a point to drive 30 or 40
> miles a month on the highway to help keep injectors clear and combustion
> chambers clean.

Last year an injector cleaner additive worked wonders for my 22-year-old
car. I used only a fraction of the bottle. I've read that it can cause
deterioration of parts in the fuel system, so I won't use it again if
the engine runs smoothly.

Decades ago, when engines ran dirty at low speeds, they often ran better
after a highway trip. I haven't noticed that lately.

Injector varnish can form each time the engine is turned off. I don't
think driving more miles reduces the problem, but cleaners included in
gasoline can. They're cheap, but some refiners add a lot less than
engine manufacturers may recommend. How does the consumer know what
he's getting?

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 16 2007 11:16 pm
From: Anthony Matonak

Joe wrote:
>>> I actually wear ear plugs in my CAR when I drive with the windows open...
>> You would get a ticket in California, legal if you ware only one.
>
> Did it in California this August... And NJ, PA, OH, IL, NE, WY, AZ, MN,
> SD... Just didn't get caught. I believe the law says they can't be used
> unless they are prescription or something like that...

I guess it's not illegal unless you get caught? No one gets tickets
(or arrested) for anything unless they get caught.

That said, the earplugs laws don't really make much sense. They allow
both deaf people and those playing very loud music to drive so they
can't claim that being able to hear is a requirement to drive.

Anthony
--
"These go to 11"

==============================================================================
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globwholesle.com)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/98c9399601947b7e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
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our company supply are as follows:
1).Nike Jordans
Jordan 1 jordan 1.5 jordan 2 jordan 3 jordan 3.5 jordan 4 jordan 5
jordan 5.5 jordan 6 jordan 6.5 jordan 7 jordan 8 jordan 9 jordan 9.5
jordan 10 jordan 11 jordan 12 jordan 13 jordan 13.5 jordan 14 jordan
15 jordan 16 jordan 17 jordan 18 jordan 18.5 jordan 19 jordan 20
jordan 21 jordan 21.5 jordan 22 jordan King jordan Dub Zero Jordan 23
Jordan 7.5
2).Air Force One Air Force one (low) Air Force one (High) Air Force
one (Mid) Air Force one (clear) Air Force One 25 year
3).SHOX Shox R3 Shox R4 Shox R5 Shox TL1 Shox TL2 Shox TL3 Shox NZ
Shox OZ Shox Turbo Show GO Shox CL Shox Coqnescenti Shox Energia Shox
Explodine Shox Monster Shox Rhythmic Shox Warrior
4).Bape Shoes Bape Bape (transparent)
5).Air max AirMax 90 AirMax 95 AirMax 97 AirMax 2003 AirMax 2004
AirMax 2005 Air Max 2006 AirMax 180 AirMax LTD AirMax TN AirMax solas
AirMax 87 AirMax Rift
6).Puma Puma Rpt2 Puma SK6 Puma Jayfi Puma Cir Puma Speed Puma Repli
Puma Future Cat Puma Mostro Puma Lifestyle
7).Dunk SB Dunk High Dunk Low
8).Timberland Timberland High Timberland Low
9).Adidas Adidas 35 Adicolor Country city sense Adidas NBA
11).Prada & Gucci Prada Gucci
12).Footballer Shoes Footballer
13).Locaste
14).converse & Reebok converse Reebok
15).D&G shoes
16).Dsquared2 shoes
17).James shoes
18).Nike King
9).Children shoes Jordan Shox
20).Women shoes Women Jordans Women Shox R3 Women Shox R4 Women
AirMax
95&97 Women AirMax 03&06 Women Dunk Women Shox NZ Women AF1
21).sandal & baboosh Nike Puma Gucci Prada
CLOTHES 1).Bape 2).ED Hardy 3).BBC 4).CLH 5).LRG 6).Artful Dodger
Hoodies 7).GINO GREEN GLOBAL 8).10 Deep 9).A&F Coat 11).Jersey NBA
Jersey Football Jersey 12).Juicy Bikini 13).Adidas Coat 14).F1 Coat
15).D&G Coat 16).Superman Coat 17).NBA Coat
JEAN 1).E&D Jeans 2).BBC Jeans 3).BAPE Jeans 4).D&G Jeans 5).EVSIU
Jeans 6).Red monkey 7).COOGI Jeans
T-shirt 1).POLO 2007 polo(women) 2007 POLO IIII(Men) POLO (stripe)
polo (small )
2).Lacoste Lacoste (LONG) Lacoste (SHORT) 3).Name Brand shirt D&G
Shirt Giorgio Armani TN Shirt 4).BBC T-shirt 5).LRG & gina green
glalal 6).Triumvir 7).ED handy 8).Evsiu 9).R.M.B 10).CLOT
Burse & Handbag 1).LV Bag 2).Gucci Bag 3).Dior Bag 4).Chanel Bag
5).Fendi Bag 6).Coach Bag 7).Burberrys Bag 8).Prada Bag 9).Man
Leisure
Bag 11).D&G bag 12).nike bag 13).Wallet 14).Suitcase
Electronics 1).Vertu Mobile 2).New iphone Mobile 3).Nokia Mobile
4).moto Mobile 5).PSP Game & memory card 6).Sony Mobile 7).Samsung
Mobile 8).Ipod nano 9).Sony PS3 10).Laptops IBM laptops DELL laptops
Sony laptops ASUS laptops
CAP 1).ED Hardy Cap 2).New Bape & NY Cap 3).RMC Cap 4).New era NBA
5).F1 6).Chanel 7).D&G 8).gucci 9).LV 10).Prada 11).PUMA 12).wool
WATCH 1).Rolex 2).Omega 3).Cartier 4).Chanel 5).Piaget 6).Breitling
7).Bvlgari 8).Corum
Sunglasses 1).Gucci Sunglasses 2).D&G Sunglasses 3).Dior Sunglasses
4).LV Sunglasses 5).Chanel Sunglasses 6).Prada Sunglasses 7).Versace
Sunglasses 8).Giorgio Armani
Strap 1).Bape Strap 2).D&G Strap 3).Gucci Strap 4).LV Strap 5).Scarf
Other 1).Lighter

size chart
Men Size:
US: 7 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 11.5 12 13 14 15
UK: 6 7 7.5 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 12 13 14
EUR: 40 41 42 42.5 43 44 44.5 45 45.5 46 47.5 48 49
Women Size:
US: 5 5.5 6 6.5 7 7.5 8 8.5
UK: 2.5 3 3.5 4 4.5 5 5.5 6
EUR: 35.5 36 36.5 37.5 38 38.5 39 40

Kid's
US: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 7.5 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 11.5 12 12.5 13 13.5
UK: 13 1 2 3 4 5 6 6.5 7 7.5 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 11.5 12 12.5
EUR:17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 24.5 25 25.5 26 26.5 27 27.5 28 29 30
30.5
31

Clothing Size:
S M L XL XXL XXXL XXXXL XXXXXL

7.because the space of the website is limited,we can also supply many
other products which be not showed out in our site. if you have the
photos of the products you need , we are pleasure to supply for your
orders.
And our company can supply for our customers ,as follow:
1. top quality.all our products have top quality.
2. most rational price. we offer the most competitive price to you
to
open your market. So today most of our products have sold well in the
America, Europe, Middle East, Southeast Asia etc..
3. safe and fast shipment. As different country you are in, we will
deliver the products to you by different ways and pledge to arrive to
your address 100%.and we will send the products to you within 24h
after we get your payment.
4.many products in stock. We have many products in stock and kinds of
size you need , also include kid's.
5.our credit. If the products can be not delivered to your address as
our reason, we will refund the money you paid.
Hope sincerely to have glad and long term business relationship with
you.
If you are interested in our products and have any problem, welcome
to
contact us.
Please trust us , we will be your best choice !!!

Website : http://www.globwholesale.com
Yahoo ID:globwholesale@yahoo.com.cn
Michael
Fashion Footwear Industrial Co.,Ltd.(Fujian,CHINA)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The sale of various brands packets.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ace693e2ae27aa99?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 16 2007 9:14 pm
From: "www.shoessuperstar.com"

Hello

http://www.shoessuperstar.com/

shoessuperstar.co.,LTD greets and desires of success and wishes you
happy times.
This is professional export company from china who carry PAYPAL
payment and DROPSHIP .
We greated in 1998 year ,and now we become the one of best supplier
here because of we keep our credit standing .
Pls visit our site if u are interest in any products below ,

http://www.shoessuperstar.com/

Our main products :
Fashion shoes:
Air Jordan , Air force , Air max , Shox , Dunk , Adidas , Puma ,
Prada , Chanel , Gucci , Lacoste , LouisVuiton and more .
Fashion Hoodies&T-Shirt&Jeans&Jacket:
Gino Green Globa , Bape , BBC , Evsiu , Juicy couture , Burberry , 10
Deep , LRG , ED Hardy , Chanel , G-Star , Red monkey , lacoste ,
POLO,
Armani ,Replay , Tommy and more.
Fashion bags:
LouisVuiton , Pada , Chanel , Fendi , Versace , Burberry , MIUMIU ,
Y-3 , Gucci ,Chloe , Guess , Juicy and more
Electronic :
IPOD NANO ,

http://www.shoessuperstar.com/

Features:
1) All Package are original ,coming with guarantee cards
2) Main Market : U.S.A . U.K ,ITALY , EURO COUNTRY ,
AUSTRALIA
3) Ship Company : DHL , TNT , UPS , SODIEX , EMS
4) Payment Method : PAYPAL , WESTERN UNION ,T/T .
5) Custom : We carry the custom clear and promise items
must be arrive .
Thanks for your reading , pls mail us if u have any problem
with
the business . We hope that will make a long&great business with you
in future.

Your satisfactions,Our pursuit!
Please Email me to get discount!!

MSN : shoessuperstar.com@hotmail.com
swukong1@hotmail.com
EMAIL: swukong116@hotmail.com

http://www.shoessuperstar.com/
Best regards
Yours sincerely

==============================================================================
TOPIC: MI5 Persecution: BA984 LHR->TXL 13/6/98 (342)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8046aa0904cefa0e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 16 2007 6:24 pm
From: MI5Victim@mi5.gov.uk

BA984 LHR->TXL 13/June/1998

Certainty level: 100%

In June 1998 I travelled on the above British Airways flight to Berlin
with my mother, to visit her family. There were two women in seats 30D/E,
about 4/5 rows behind us. It was quite obvious from the torrent of abuse
during these flight that these women had been instructed to harass me
and attempt to obtain a reaction.

I did manage to record much of the flight, but unfortunately much of the
recording is unclear because of high background noise on the aircraft.
The following three excerpts from the recording are the best I can do.

The segment at position 11:34 minutes on my recording contains a fairly
quiet word "paranoid", followed immediately by a much louder
"yeah, he's paranoid, yeah". During the flight the abuse was not sexual,
as it so often is elsewhere, but attacking my mental health.

One of the women in seats 30D/E said "paranoid" very clearly towards the
end of the flight, but unfortunately I had run out of minidisc space and
stopped recording by then. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that
these women were directed to harass me. This harassment happens without
fail on British Airways flights; I've been on something like three or
four BA flights in the last 5 years and it's happened each time.
Presumably this is because of international law which says incidents on
aircraft during flight are actionable in the airline's country of
origin - so my persecutors want a reaction from me, and they want to see
me "done" in the UK where they can influence the justice system.

These incidents never happen on foreign-domiciled carriers.

342

--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Best place to post online classifieds?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8237051731654550?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 16 2007 10:38 pm
From: Charles Quinn

"OhioGuy" <none@none.net> wrote in news:fhkmfb$4uv$1@aioe.org:

>> definitely craigslist. They're probably why Yahoo gave up.
>
>
> Already been trying them, but have yet to get a single response. I
> wish
> they had a "comic book" section, but they lump it all together in
> "collectibles".

Hmmm, comic books, Ohioguy. OSU? M go Blue!

Charles
The significant problems we face cannot be solved
at the same level of thinking we were at when we
created them. Albert Einstein

==============================================================================
TOPIC: MI5 Persecution: BHS Croydon 18/12/98 (2517)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ba000bba333fcf34?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 16 2007 7:43 pm
From: MI5Victim@mi5.gov.uk

Evil old bat in BHS 18/12/98

Certainty level: 40%

Not quite sure how sure I am about this one. I went down to Croydon (Surrey)
with my mother to buy her a beret. After doing the shopping, we went to
the BHS store restaurant to lunch on fish and chips.

You can guess the rest. Auditory hallucinations my shrink calls them,
faithfully recorded on Sony minidisc. Some old cow going on about
"see that chap, the one over there, something's wrong with him".

It is quite tiring being attacked by random idiots in the street, or as
in this case, by some random, evil old bat in a restaurant. Fortunately
it is only a sporadic occurrence. My enemies seem of late reluctant to
waste resources in my direction. Should I take this as an insult? Am I not
worth the millions of taxpayers money which has been wasted on me? Are the
obsessives of MI5 themselves the "nutters" and "really mad" which they
accuse me of being? Interestingly this suggestion as to the psychological
profiles of Security Service personnel has been made by others... it does
lead one to wonder, doesn't it?

2517

--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Free Tamsulosin Hydrochloride Capsules, 0.4 mg
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8944a826d60f7c58?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 16 2007 11:55 pm
From: "TheBestFreebies.com"

Get a voucher for a free one-week supply of Tamsulosin Hydrochloride
capsules, 0.4 mg, for treatment of male urinary symptoms due to BPH.
This free offer is intended for United States residents only.

--
The Best Freebies

All free products are available at http://TheBestFreebies.com/ and
are intended for families, businesses, and individuals residing in
the United States, Canada, and the United Kingdom.

==============================================================================

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