Frugal Living: 15 new messages in 11 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ~*^~ Turns your PC into a Super Entertainment Center~^*~
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/38c00178b1b21f32?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 25 2007 10:16 am
From: Marina

The New Way To Enjoy Satellite TV on your PC!

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Most people pay $19 to $100+ a month for a very limited number of TV
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Merry Christmas Frugal Friends
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/96c8136e7bd59c0a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 25 2007 10:34 am
From: Donna

And a happy and below your means 2008!

--
~Donna
http://www.frugalsewing.com
Reduce, reuse, recycle, re-create.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: (www.globwholesale.com)China Cheap Wholesale NBA Football Sports Shoes &
Sneakers
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7e321fe3d8836106?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 25 2007 11:43 am
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Natural gas space heaters
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/620118e627721656?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 25 2007 2:03 pm
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Dec 18, 9:06 pm, clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:
> On 18 Dec 2007 08:46:13 -0500, nicksans...@ece.villanova.edu wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >I just installed a 30K Btu/h natural gas vent-free radiant heater in
> >a house near Allentown, PA, where kerosine now costs $3.50/gallon
> >and natural gas costs about $1.50/therm (roughly equivalent).
>
> >Empire Comfort Systems (Enerco) makes this "Mr. Heater." Tractor Supply
> >sells it for $229.99 as sku #2151954. It comes with a thermostat and
> >a blower and a digital temperature display. It has an oxygen depletion
> >sensor, and it can work without grid power, but there have been some
> >problems since installation.
>
> >The thermostat only has 5 temp settings, as well as "pilot only." It is
> >supposed to make the room about 55 F min, with 5 F steps above that, but
> >the temp sensing bulb is on the back near a cold floor under a cold single-
> >pane window. When the first setting heats most of the room to more than
> >70 F, the owner turns the thermostat back to pilot before the heater
> >turns itself off, while the temperature display still only reads 58 F, ie
> >the thermostat isn't doing much. The owner says with the knob between
> >the lowest and pilot settings, the heater emits interesting flaming blue
> >gas footballs instead of the usual red glow. And it makes condensation
> >on the indoor window surfaces.
>
> >We might fix the first 2 problems by putting a 25 watt light bulb near
> >the temp sensor with a $15 line-voltage thermostat on the wall that
> >turns the bulb off when the room is warm enough.
>
> >This old house seemed drafty enough to avoid window condensation, but
> >it also has a damp basement, with puddles of water after rain. Keeping
> >water out of the basement might help a lot. Indoor storm window shrink
> >films could also help. Allentown is 31.8 F on an average December day.
> >An R1 window with a 1.5 Btu/h-F-ft^2 still airfilm indoor conductance to
> >70 F room air and (70-31.8)1ft^2/R1 = 38.2 Btu/h-ft^2 of heatflow would
> >have a glazing temp (dew point) of 70-38.2x1ft^2/1.5 = 44.5 F (504.5 R),
> >with indoor RH = 100e^-(9621(530-504.5)/(504.5x530) = 40% at 70 F (530 R).
> >Basement puddles at 55 F could condense on window surfaces.
>
> >If indoor film makes the windows R2 and raises the film temp to 70-19.1/1.5
> >59.4 F (519.4 R), the a max indoor RH = 100e^-(9621(530-519.4)/(519.4x530)
> >= 69%, with no condensation from basement puddles.
>
> >NREL says Allentown has an average humidity ratio wo = 0.0028 pounds of water
> >per pound of dry air in December, with Pa = 29.921/(1+0.62198/0.0028)
> >= 0.1341 "Hg. Air at 70 F and 100% RH has Psat = e^(17.863-9621/(460+70))
> >= 0.748 "Hg, approximately, so merely heating the outdoor air to 70 F
> >with no basement puddles would make the indoor RH = 100Pa/Psat = 18%.
>
> >The ASHRAE HOF says pure methane (vs a different natural gas mixture) has
> >a high heating value (HHV) of 23,875 Btu/lb, when we condense the water vapor
> >from combustion and a low heating value (LHV) of 21,495 (11% less) when we
> >don't, and 1000 Btu can evaporate a pound of water, so a vent-free heater
> >that makes 20K Btu/h also makes 0.11x20K/1000 = 2.2 lb/h of water vapor.
> >With window films and no basement puddles, we could keep a 50% indoor RH
> >(wi= 0.016) by moving in C cfm of fresh air (at 0.075 lb/ft^3), where
> >2.2=60C0.075(wi-wo), so C = 37 cfm, with a heat loss of about 37(70-31.8)
> >1420 Btu/h, which lowers the heater system efficiency to 93%, compared to
> >an HHV- 100%.
>
> >We might move outdoor air into the room with a $30 humidistat and a muffin
> >fan, or (more efficiently) use a homebrew HRV with condensation outside
> >and fresh air inside Coroplast (plastic corrugated sign material) plates,
> >or run a dehumidifier or an $80 low-airspeed window AC inside the room.
>
> >If the $1275 DV-20E 81.5%-efficient direct vent and $3268 93%-efficient
> >Mantis condensing gas heaters are measured with LHV-based efficiencies
> >and we subtract 11% to compare apples to apples, the $229 vent-free
> >heater is more efficient, as well as a lot cheaper.
>
> >Kiddie's 900-0113 plug-in CO and explosive gas detector with battery backup
> >($48 from Amazon, with free shipping) would go well with this.
>
> >Nick
>
> Vent free heaters produce COPIOUS amounts of water vapour - a much
> more serious issue in most cases thanoxygen depletement or CO
> concentration.
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

True....and believe me when I say you do need to deal with the
moisture.

That moisture condenses everywhere where the surfaces are dewpoint or
lower.

Mold growth, dry rot and termites all love that ready moisture that
you are providing.

Excessive moisture will destroy a house.

TMT

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 25 2007 2:48 pm
From: nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu

Too_Many_Tools <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote:

>... believe me when I say you do need to deal with the moisture.
>
>... Excessive moisture will destroy a house.

This one's pretty much already destroyed :-)

Lately I'm thinking a natural convection air-air heat exchanger might be nice,
with more airflow than a sensible heat exchanger, since humidity adds bouyancy
and the outgoing air would be warmer, with condensation.

Nick

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Billy Mays
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/566322ae66ece835?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 25 2007 4:18 pm
From: Ted

On Dec 23, 6:55 pm, greg3347 <theodor...@lycos.com> wrote:
> On Dec 23, 1:54 pm, cuhu...@webtv.net wrote:
>
> > Almost every tv channel I get to, sooner or later, that high tone
> > ''woman'' Billy Mays pops up on there.He is like a hemorhhoid that won't
> > go away, with his/her fake phoney as seen on tv junk.Why doesn't
> > somebody DO Something! about that B..ch!?
> > cuhulin
>
> I totally agree, the oily SOB has touted me off of any number of
> products. I may start something like the Committee to Ban OxyClean.
>
> greg

Hurrah! I'm not the only one who finds asshole with shoe-polish black
hair to
be offensive. Saw the slovenly dork touting some overpriced epoxy
product
today. But as the great Barnum proclaimed, "You will never lose money
underestimating the public taste."

ted

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Learn Chinese ,chinese instrument and travel in Beijing
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/86e93e2793941c27?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 25 2007 5:54 pm
From: Julia

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: More Selective reporting from Limbaugh
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/306db91f018962b9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 25 2007 6:11 pm
From: "Nicik Name"

"jdoe" <jdoe@aol.com> wrote in message
news:sms0n3pbtjkicpbvvnijtrehcu4pdddda9@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 24 Dec 2007 20:53:02 -0500, "Nicik Name"
> <orbits@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>Problem is Ditto Heads think they are getting real news from Limbaugh.
>>http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-libmedia.htm
>>
> no, the problem is that people like you guessing how people take
> things, your prejudices are as bad as anyone else's
read the blue fool above"?
> __________________________________________
> Never argue with an idiot.
> They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: AMT ??
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/24c6087a6b1730b9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 25 2007 6:36 pm
From: clams_casino

jdoe wrote:

>On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 07:32:00 -0500, clams_casino
><PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>jdoe wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>I don't understand the losers like you who don't realize that the top
>>>10% of earners in the US pay about 95% of the taxes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Care to provide ANY reference to support such a wild statement? Or is
>>that a Rush statistic?
>>
>>In 2004, the top 10% paid $567B of the $832B dollars of federal income
>>taxes collected in 2004 (68%). Of course, that's only federal income
>>tax.
>>
>>http://www.itepnet.org/wp2000/pr.pdf shows the top 1% pay about 7% in
>>state and local taxes vs. about 10% for average earners.
>>
>>Furthermore, average earners pay about 7.7% for FICA taxes vs. 0.8% for
>>the top 1% (taxed income is capped at about $90,000)
>>
>>When you factor in all taxes, the percent taxes paid by the wealthy
>>tend to be quite similar to others. Bottom line, the wealthy pay more
>>taxes simply because they have more of the wealth / have higher incomes,
>>but the percentage tends to be relatively similar.
>>
>>For example, the top 1% pay about 23.5% of their income in Federal
>>taxes, 5% in State/local taxes and 0.8% in FICA taxes or about 29.3% of
>>income.
>>
>>The average payer pays about 13.5% in Fed taxes, 7% in state/local taxes
>>and 7.7% in FICA taxes (likely 9-15% for dual wage earning families) or
>>about 28.2% of income (higher for duel income households)
>>
>>Of course, there are also many perks for the wealthy that average people
>>tend not to enjoy, including typically $14k+ tax-free medical care, very
>>gracious home ownership tax subsidies, various business perks (tax free
>>meals at the finest restaurants, preferred / free seating at sporting
>>events, free use of cars), etc.
>>
>>
>for some real facts visit www.taxfoundation.org/
>__________________________________________
>Never argue with an idiot.
>They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
>
>

Your statistic should read "the top 10% of earners pay about 70% of the
Federal incomes taxes" - http://www.actionamerica.org/taxecon/irsdata.shtml

Some additional statistics are that an income of >104K in 2005 qualified
for the top 10% with about 45% of the income.

Of course, that says nothing about the total taxes paid as Federal
income taxes are only about 1/3 of the total taxes. If you were to
figure in social security, sales, excise, property, etc, you'll find
most tend to pay close to the the same as a percentage of their total
income.

The typical problem with those who complaint about tax fairness is that
most will tend to only look at Federal incomes taxes (which do effect
the wealthy most) and (conveniently) ignore the total tax distribution,
but refer to taxes when they are only talking about Federal income taxes.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 25 2007 7:00 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
> jdoe wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 07:32:00 -0500, clams_casino
>> <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> jdoe wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I don't understand the losers like you who don't realize that the
>>>> top 10% of earners in the US pay about 95% of the taxes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Care to provide ANY reference to support such a wild statement? Or
>>> is that a Rush statistic?
>>>
>>> In 2004, the top 10% paid $567B of the $832B dollars of federal
>>> income taxes collected in 2004 (68%). Of course, that's only
>>> federal income tax.
>>>
>>> http://www.itepnet.org/wp2000/pr.pdf shows the top 1% pay about 7%
>>> in state and local taxes vs. about 10% for average earners.
>>>
>>> Furthermore, average earners pay about 7.7% for FICA taxes vs. 0.8%
>>> for the top 1% (taxed income is capped at about $90,000)
>>>
>>> When you factor in all taxes, the percent taxes paid by the
>>> wealthy tend to be quite similar to others. Bottom line, the
>>> wealthy pay more taxes simply because they have more of the wealth
>>> / have higher incomes, but the percentage tends to be relatively
>>> similar. For example, the top 1% pay about 23.5% of their income in Federal
>>> taxes, 5% in State/local taxes and 0.8% in FICA taxes or about
>>> 29.3% of income.
>>>
>>> The average payer pays about 13.5% in Fed taxes, 7% in state/local
>>> taxes and 7.7% in FICA taxes (likely 9-15% for dual wage earning
>>> families) or about 28.2% of income (higher for duel income
>>> households) Of course, there are also many perks for the wealthy that average
>>> people tend not to enjoy, including typically $14k+ tax-free
>>> medical care, very gracious home ownership tax subsidies, various
>>> business perks (tax free meals at the finest restaurants, preferred / free seating at sporting events, free use of
>>> cars), etc.
>>>
>>>
>> for some real facts visit www.taxfoundation.org/
>> __________________________________________
>> Never argue with an idiot.
>> They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
>>
>>
>
>
>
> Your statistic should read "the top 10% of earners pay about 70% of
> the Federal incomes taxes" -
> http://www.actionamerica.org/taxecon/irsdata.shtml
> Some additional statistics are that an income of >104K in 2005
> qualified for the top 10% with about 45% of the income.

> Of course, that says nothing about the total taxes paid as Federal
> income taxes are only about 1/3 of the total taxes. If you were to
> figure in social security, sales, excise, property, etc, you'll find most tend to pay close to the the same as a
> percentage of their total income.

That last is mindlessly silly.

And even if it was true, you havent established that the percentage
being the same is what makes the tax system overall 'fair' anyway.

> The typical problem with those who complaint about tax fairness is
> that most will tend to only look at Federal incomes taxes (which do
> effect the wealthy most) and (conveniently) ignore the total tax
> distribution, but refer to taxes when they are only talking about
> Federal income taxes.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: GSM Home Alarm System
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/485abaf41445e06a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 25 2007 7:52 pm
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: UN official calls biofuel schemes a "crime against humanity! Food riots
around the world! Bush bill wil starve the world!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d74a7292558d763e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 25 2007 8:30 pm
From: "calderhome@yahoo.com"

http://canberra.yourguide.com.au/news/local/news-features/un-issues-warning-of-critical-food-shortages-the-livelihoods-of-billions-of-people-will-be-se/1151741.html
.
Wednesday, 26 December 2007
.
UN issues warning of critical food shortages 'The livelihoods of
billions of people will be severely challenged
.
Rosslyn Beeby
.
Almost 40 countries are facing critical food shortages as world food
prices soar to record levels, the United Nations warns.
.
The world's food supplies are rapidly dwindling due to crop failures
caused by global warming, natural disasters, wars, and a trend away
from farming food crops to growing biofuels and grain to feed cattle,
the agency says.
.
The UN Food and Agriculture Organisation's global food price index
reached its highest level this year, rising by more than 40 per cent,
compared with 9 per cent last year.
"There is a very serious risk that there will be less people able to
get access to food because of prices," FAO head Jacques Diouf said.
.
The cost of imported food for the world's poorest countries has risen
by 25 per cent this year to about $US107 billion the highest on
record. Countries facing critical food shortages include 20 African
countries as well as Iraq, Afghanistan, Nepal and Pakistan.

Food riots caused by shortages and rising prices have also occurred in
Mexico, Morocco, Uzbekistan, Yemen and Senegal.
.
In its monthly analysis of global food prices, the FAO said there had
been an unprecedented "hike in world prices of, not just a selected
few, but of nearly all, major food and feed commodities".
Rarely had the world felt such "a widespread and commonly shared
concern about food price inflation," the FAO analysis said. In
Australia, food prices have increased by 12percent over the past two
years, chiefly because of drought and crop shortages linked to global
climate change.

Australian Bureau of Statistics data shows prices for bread and eggs
have increased by 17 per cent since 2005, vegetables by 33 per cent,
honey by 100 per cent, dairy products by 11percent and fruit by 43 per
cent.
.
A recent report by economist John Quiggin for the Australian
Conservation Foundation concluded "price shocks similar to those being
experienced by Australian consumers during the currently severe
drought may start to occur every two to four years, rather than once a
decade, unless strong action is taken to reduce global emissions".

Quiggin said some practices proposed as strategies to mitigate the
impact of climate change such as growing corn and sugar cane for
biofuels and the use of forestry plantations as carbon sinks would
inevitably contribute to "upward pressure on food prices".
The impact of biofuels on world food production will be reviewed at a
UN conference on food security next year.
.
It was essential biofuel policies were "coordinated at an
international level taking into consideration the objective of
fighting hunger," Diouf said.

Higher meat consumption in emerging market nations across Asia are
also driving food price increases.

In 1985, China's average consumption of meat was of 20kg, but per
capita meat consumption had now increased to 50kg, Diouf said. This
reduced the amount of grain available because 1kg of beef could take
as much as 8kg of grain to produce.
The British medical journal The Lancet recently published a study
suggesting a 10 per cent cut in global meat consumption by 2050 would
reduce greenhouse emissions from agriculture and also improve health
for rich and poor nations.
.
Agricultural experts have also warned global warming will result in
shorter growing seasons and smaller crop yields across most of the
developing world, affecting the lives of billions of people. A report
by the Consultative Group on International Agricultural Research
estimates wheat production in India could drop by 50 per cent within
40 years, putting as many as 200 million people at risk of worsening
food shortages.
.
Growing seasons in many parts of Africa will decrease by 20 per cent,
with some of the world's poorest farming communities in east and
central Africa including Rwanda, Burundi, Ethiopia and Eritrea among
the worst affected.
.
"The livelihoods of billions of people in developing countries,
particularly those in the tropics, will be severely challenged as crop
yields decline due to shorter growing seasons," International Rice
Research Institute director Dr Robert Zeigler said.
The FAO said soaring petroleum prices had contributed to price
increases for agricultural crops by raising farm production costs and
boosting demand for biofuels.

"The combination of high petroleum prices and the desire to address
environmental issues is currently at the forefront of the rapid
expansion of the biofuel sector: this is likely to boost demand for
feedstocks, most notably, sugar, maize, rapeseed, soybean, palm oil
and other oil crops as well as wheat for many more years to come."
.
According to the FAO, the amount of corn used for biofuel production
in the US will double to 110 million tonnes by 2016. In Europe, the
amount of wheat devoted to biofuel will rise twelvefold to 18 million
tonnes by the same date.

Earlier this year, Jean Ziegler, the UN's Special Rapporteur on the
Right to Food, denounced biofuels as "a crime against humanity" and
called for a five-year moratorium on their production.
--------------------------
SEE "The biofuel hoax is causing a world food crisis!"
http://home.att.net/~meditation/bio-fuel-hoax.html

Don't let this nightmare stupidity continue! Write your politicians
and tell them to stop this disaster before it gets worse!

Other shocking news stories on the biofuel hoax at:
http://home.att.net/~meditation/biofuel-news.html
.
Christopher Calder

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 25 2007 9:30 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

calderhome@yahoo.com wrote:

> http://canberra.yourguide.com.au/news/local/news-features/un-issues-warning-of-critical-food-shortages-the-livelihoods-of-billions-of-people-will-be-se/1151741.html

> Wednesday, 26 December 2007

> UN issues warning of critical food shortages
> 'The livelihoods of billions of people will be severely challenged

Mindlessly silly. And hasnt got a damned thing to
do with your stupid claims about biofuels anyway.

> Rosslyn Beeby

> Almost 40 countries are facing critical food shortages as world
> food prices soar to record levels, the United Nations warns.

World food prices havent done anything even remotely resembling 'soar', fool.

> The world's food supplies are rapidly dwindling due to crop
> failures caused by global warming, natural disasters, wars,
> and a trend away from farming food crops to growing
> biofuels and grain to feed cattle, the agency says.

Biofuels are a trivial part of that.

> The UN Food and Agriculture Organisation's global food
> price index reached its highest level this year, rising by
> more than 40 per cent, compared with 9 per cent last year.

Mindlessly silly, the real increase in retail prices have been
nothing even remotely resembling anything like 40%, fool.

AND whatever has been seen in the last year, wont be repeated anyway, you watch.

> "There is a very serious risk that there will be less people able to get
> access to food because of prices," FAO head Jacques Diouf said.

What a fool, wont happen, you watch.

And in the first world thats exactly what most need
anyway, less calories shovelled into their mouths.

> The cost of imported food for the world's poorest countries has risen
> by 25 per cent this year to about $US107 billion the highest on record.

Usual bogus statistic. The vast bulk of the food in the world's
poorest countrys isnt even imported in those countrys, fool.

> Countries facing critical food shortages include 20 African
> countries as well as Iraq, Afghanistan, Nepal and Pakistan.

Mindlessly silly. You wont be seeing famine in any one of those countrys, you watch.

> Food riots caused by shortages and rising prices have also
> occurred in Mexico, Morocco, Uzbekistan, Yemen and Senegal.

Bare faced lie.

> In its monthly analysis of global food prices, the FAO said there had
> been an unprecedented "hike in world prices of, not just a selected
> few, but of nearly all, major food and feed commodities".

Pity about the rest that didnt see that. Anyone with a clue eats
those in the years where the other stuff increases unusually.

Not a shred of rocket science whatever required.

> Rarely had the world felt such "a widespread and commonly
> shared concern about food price inflation," the FAO analysis said.

It wont be repeated, you watch.

> In Australia, food prices have increased by 12percent over the past two years,

Bare faced lie.

> chiefly because of drought and crop shortages linked to global climate change.

Nope, nothing to do with global climate change.

There's been a drought, fool, and thats just come to an end.

So you can stop mindlessly hyperventilating because it wont be
repeated, and 6% a year is no big deal even if it had happened
in the worst drought we have seen for over a century.

> Australian Bureau of Statistics data shows prices for bread and eggs
> have increased by 17 per cent since 2005, vegetables by 33 per cent,

That is a lie, and the ABS never said that either.

> honey by 100 per cent, dairy products by 11percent and fruit by 43 per cent.

That is a lie, and the ABS never said that either.

> A recent report by economist John Quiggin
> for the Australian Conservation Foundation

Who are a complete pack of hysterical fools.

> concluded "price shocks similar to those being experienced
> by Australian consumers during the currently severe drought

Pure fantasy.

> may start to occur every two to four years, rather than once a decade,

We dont get droughts like that every decade, fool.

And we wont be seeing them every 2-4 years either, you watch.

> unless strong action is taken to reduce global emissions".

Even the complete replacement of all power generation and transport
fuel with nukes and hydrogen overnight wouldnt stop that anyway, fool.

> Quiggin said some practices proposed as strategies to mitigate the impact
> of climate change such as growing corn and sugar cane for biofuels

That aint why some are into biofuels, fool.

> and the use of forestry plantations as carbon sinks would
> inevitably contribute to "upward pressure on food prices".

Pig ignorant lie.

> The impact of biofuels on world food production will be
> reviewed at a UN conference on food security next year.

And if they actually have a clue, will find that the effect is completely trivial.

> It was essential biofuel policies were "coordinated at an international
> level taking into consideration the objective of fighting hunger," Diouf said.

More fool Diouf.

> Higher meat consumption in emerging market nations
> across Asia are also driving food price increases.

They can afford that, which is why they are doing that, fool.

> In 1985, China's average consumption of meat was of 20kg, but per
> capita meat consumption had now increased to 50kg, Diouf said.

They can afford that, which is why they are doing that, fool.

> This reduced the amount of grain available because 1kg
> of beef could take as much as 8kg of grain to produce.

They can afford that, which is why they are doing that, fool.

> The British medical journal The Lancet recently published
> a study suggesting a 10 per cent cut in global meat consumption
> by 2050 would reduce greenhouse emissions from agriculture

And changing to nukes for power generation
would reduce greenhouse emissions much more.

> and also improve health for rich and poor nations.