Frugal Living: 24 new messages in 13 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Learn Chinese ,chinese instrument and travel in Beijing
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/86e93e2793941c27?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 27 2007 12:48 am
From: Anthony Matonak

Julia wrote:
> Learn Chinese ,chinese instrument and travel in Beijing
...
Translation, "Come to China for the Language and Culture,
stay for the lifetime of slavery and oppression."

Anthony

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Villa in Sicily for sale
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/df115b56e0975da2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 27 2007 12:56 am
From: Anthony Matonak

Dave wrote:
> Set in 1.25 acres of land overlooking valley and mountains. Private
> sale. £65,000 details: http://www.homesinsicily.com/tranquil/tranquil.htm

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/news/sicilian-toxic-emergency

Cheap land can be found almost anywhere. There is usually a very good
reason why it's cheap. The trick is to find out before you buy and,
even better, before it kills you.

Anthony

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Please help - I need to get my credit card debt under control
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/072147bbeeb4a6a6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 27 2007 2:19 am
From: Shawn Hirn

In article
<bd6f8dd3-e2af-4196-b86d-32fec581750f@i3g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
Sev <servdemon@aol.com> wrote:

> On Dec 26, 9:15?pm, roches...@myaddress.rr.com wrote:
> > Due to circumstances of my own doing, I have a bad problem with credit
> > card debt.
> >
> > Sparing the details, the company I worked for went under in 2002, I
> > worked on my own and made little money for three years, and the job I
> > got after that, though promsing, involves a long ramp-up curve; my
> > best earnings are ahead of me.
> >
> > Right now, here are my circumstances:
> >
> > - Three bank credit cards with a total indebtedness of roughly $70k,
> > and monthly payments of about $2,200
> > - A fourth bank card on which I make all of my purchases and pay off
> > in full every month
> > - A 30k personal loan from Capital One with a $500 monthly payment
> > - House fully mortgaged, no equity to tap, interest rate about 6.5%,
> > 18 years left on a 20-year mortgage
> > - car loan of $450 a month
> >
> > The interest rates on my cards are all high - basically 19-29%.
> >
> > My wife and I together earn about $10k a month, and I expect this
> > amount will begin to increase late to mid 2008. ?But I'm just dying
> > under the weight of these cards. ?I applied to Cap One earlier this
> > month for a balance transfer on one of my cards, hoping to cut the
> > interest rate, but I was turned down because of a combination of my
> > income and the fact that my debt-carrying cards are close to maxed.
> >
> > What are some good ways that I can cut these monthly payments? ?Or
> > more accurately, maintain the monthly payments but have more money go
> > to pay down the balance and less money go to interest? ?My wife and I
> > both have FICO scores in the 700-740 range - not bluest of blue chip
> > for credit, but still very good.
>
> You applied one place and were turned down? Try a few more- no
> reason to pay those interest rates. Though you are pretty maxed out,
> and credit is getting tighter, you still ought to find something
> better.

The OP should shop around on http://www.bankrate.com

== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 27 2007 5:25 am
From: "Chloe"

"Gordon" <gonzo@alltomyself.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A12C91981A27greederxprtnet@199.45.49.11...
> rochester@myaddress.rr.com wrote in
> news:9326n3tt9n6ii0h4jjrf9rm4nvu46h631s@4ax.com:
>
>> Due to circumstances of my own doing, I have a bad problem with credit
>> card debt.
>>
>> Sparing the details, the company I worked for went under in 2002, I
>> worked on my own and made little money for three years, and the job I
>> got after that, though promsing, involves a long ramp-up curve; my
>> best earnings are ahead of me.
>>
>> Right now, here are my circumstances:
>>
>> - Three bank credit cards with a total indebtedness of roughly $70k,
>> and monthly payments of about $2,200
>> - A fourth bank card on which I make all of my purchases and pay off
>> in full every month
>> - A 30k personal loan from Capital One with a $500 monthly payment
>> - House fully mortgaged, no equity to tap, interest rate about 6.5%,
>> 18 years left on a 20-year mortgage
>> - car loan of $450 a month
>>
>> The interest rates on my cards are all high - basically 19-29%.
>>
>> My wife and I together earn about $10k a month, and I expect this
>> amount will begin to increase late to mid 2008. But I'm just dying
>> under the weight of these cards. I applied to Cap One earlier this
>> month for a balance transfer on one of my cards, hoping to cut the
>> interest rate, but I was turned down because of a combination of my
>> income and the fact that my debt-carrying cards are close to maxed.
>>
>> What are some good ways that I can cut these monthly payments? Or
>> more accurately, maintain the monthly payments but have more money go
>> to pay down the balance and less money go to interest? My wife and I
>> both have FICO scores in the 700-740 range - not bluest of blue chip
>> for credit, but still very good.
>
> See if you can get a debt consolidation loan from your bank. Then
> arange to have the monthly payment directly deducted from your
> bank account.
>
> What are you spending the 10K per month on? I would love to be
> making that much. To pay off your credit cards you should be
> makeing more (much more) than the minimum monthly payment.
> Is there any way you can free up about $1000.00 more per month
> and apply it to your debt?

The advice about trying to find lower interest rates and/or a consolidation
loan is, of course, solid. But I think you need to immediately sit down and
figure out what your rationale was in giving yourself permission to rack up
credit card and personal loan debt at this level. If you don't get some
insight there, you're not likely to be able to solve the underlying problem,
which is simply that you've bought a whole lot of stuff you couldn't
pay for. A stunning (to me, anyway) $100,00 worth of stuff (not counting
your house) which you couldn't pay for.

With this level of debt, I'd say you need to raise money wherever you can.
You've given us no real idea where your income is going, but for starters
you would need to cease all discretionary spending, things like eating out,
entertainment, vacations, etc. and limit your buying to bare necessities.
I'd also be looking around to see if there's anything I could sell,
including my house. I realize you might well be upside down on your
mortgage, though, so that well may not be an option.

== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 27 2007 5:50 am
From: rochester@myaddress.rr.com

Please understand that my question wasn't an invitation to analyze my
lifestyle, spending habits, etc. It was merely asking for help on
lowering my interest rates. I'm not sure if the best approach would
be to initially ask my current card companies to lower their rates, or
to seek help from my bank (same account for 20 years, albeit under
different banks due to mergers), or to shop for new cards with lower
interest, or something else.

I am dubious about "credit card counseling" places; I do understand
the concepts of "pay yourself first" and spending less than one makes.

Not that this is germane to the discussion, but $10k a month nets out
to around $7,500 after taxes, and with three kids, insurance, etc.,
etc., the money does go away quickly.

The credit card mess began when my company folded five years ago.
Instead of instantly refinancing my home (I'd feared that doing so
would snapshot that my income at the time was zero), I started
borrowing against credit cards. Very dumb move; I should have
refinanced - I know I could have found a good deal and doing so would
have averted much of what followed.

I realize that my $450 car payment was a "big fat target" for
criticism. Due to the nature of my job, a nice car is something I
need; let's leave it at that. Our other car is a 2000 minivan with
110k miles on it; my previous car was a 1994 one that looked and ran
well and I kept it until 18 months ago. I will obviously be holding
on to the current car well after it is paid off.

I am reluctant to willy-nilly seek credit from different sources
because my understanding is that each attempt is a mark against my
credit rating. So, based on the knowledge and experiences of those in
this newsgroup, what would be my best approach(es) to lowering the
interest rates I'm paying? If there's a lender with a good record of
dealing with people in my situation, I'd like to hear of the place.

Thanks again.

== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 27 2007 6:06 am
From: clams_casino

rochester@myaddress.rr.com wrote:

>Please understand that my question wasn't an invitation to analyze my
>lifestyle, spending habits, etc. It was merely asking for help on
>lowering my interest rates. I'm not sure if the best approach would
>be to initially ask my current card companies to lower their rates, or
>to seek help from my bank (same account for 20 years, albeit under
>different banks due to mergers), or to shop for new cards with lower
>interest, or something else.
>
>
>
Your problem is not the high interest rates. Your problem is your
spending. Only an idiot carries a credit card balance.

>I am dubious about "credit card counseling" places; I do understand
>the concepts of "pay yourself first" and spending less than one makes.
>
>Not that this is germane to the discussion, but $10k a month nets out
>to around $7,500 after taxes, and with three kids, insurance, etc.,
>etc., the money does go away quickly.
>
>

Considering your income is about three times the national average, you
really do have a (spending) problem.

Unless you get your spending under control, debt will be a lifelong
problem for you.

== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 27 2007 6:24 am
From: "Chloe"

<rochester@myaddress.rr.com> wrote in message
news:lia7n3dud5pst8n9jlh9o016qnb26pajls@4ax.com...
> Please understand that my question wasn't an invitation to analyze my
> lifestyle, spending habits, etc. It was merely asking for help on
> lowering my interest rates. I'm not sure if the best approach would
> be to initially ask my current card companies to lower their rates, or
> to seek help from my bank (same account for 20 years, albeit under
> different banks due to mergers), or to shop for new cards with lower
> interest, or something else.
<snip>

I have no interest in analyzing your lifestyle and spending habits. I was
merely suggesting that YOU do so.

If you think about it, there's little likelihood that any lending
institution will want to take on your debt at a lower interest rate. Why
would they want to? Although the current debt holders might cut you some
kind of deal at the point where default looks to them like a real
possibility. At that point, you probably won't be worrying about some minor
affect on your credit score of applying for new loans, though.

Realistically, it's not possible to borrow your way out of the kind of debt
you're in. But I don't think you're ready to hear that at this point.

== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 27 2007 6:25 am
From: rochester@myaddress.rr.com

On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 09:06:12 -0500, clams_casino
<PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:

>>
>>
>>
>Your problem is not the high interest rates. Your problem is your
>spending. Only an idiot carries a credit card balance.
>
>>
>
>Considering your income is about three times the national average, you
>really do have a (spending) problem.
>
>Unless you get your spending under control, debt will be a lifelong
>problem for you.
>
>
Okay, last time I address replies not on topic, but:

1. I already explained how I came to have these credit card balances.
I am not proud of them, or that I got myself here, but it happened. I
am not an idiot.

2. So if I had one-third the income and one-third the debt, you'd
elevate yourself to address my actual question? I doubt it. How does
the fact that my income somehow sets off your envy buttons factor into
this?

3. Unless I wind up much older than I would like to, my life is more
than half over. Debt had never been a problem for me; it became one
five years ago. If debt was a lifelong problem for me, I'd not have
the still better-than-average FICO scores.

== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 27 2007 6:40 am
From: clams_casino

rochester@myaddress.rr.com wrote:

>On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 09:06:12 -0500, clams_casino
><PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Your problem is not the high interest rates. Your problem is your
>>spending. Only an idiot carries a credit card balance.
>>
>>
>>
>>Considering your income is about three times the national average, you
>>really do have a (spending) problem.
>>
>>Unless you get your spending under control, debt will be a lifelong
>>problem for you.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>Okay, last time I address replies not on topic, but:
>
>1. I already explained how I came to have these credit card balances.
>I am not proud of them, or that I got myself here, but it happened. I
>am not an idiot.
>
>

Unless perhaps you made a bad business decision or major medical
expense, getting into that much debt is amazing.

>2. So if I had one-third the income and one-third the debt, you'd
>elevate yourself to address my actual question? I doubt it.
>

Guessed correctly.

> How does
>the fact that my income somehow sets off your envy buttons factor into
>this?
>
>

Believe me. I'm not envious of your income. Hint - it's not you income
that caught my attention, but rather how anyone could get into that much
debt.

>3. Unless I wind up much older than I would like to, my life is more
>than half over. Debt had never been a problem for me; it became one
>five years ago. If debt was a lifelong problem for me, I'd not have
>the still better-than-average FICO scores.
>
>

If you are middle aged with no equity in your home, something is
seriously wrong with your spending habits (assuming you didn't have a
very significant business failure / medical expense).

Best guess is that you have been living way beyond your means. Rather
than attempting to shave a few interest points off your loans, perhaps
you need to consider down sizing from that big home & driving a car more
in line with your debt.

Having a high FICO score doesn't necessary mean you haven't had a
spending problem. All it means is that you were able to cover your
debts - most likely living hand to mouth with no savings / investments.

== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 27 2007 8:20 am
From: Foobar

On Dec 26, 9:15 pm, roches...@myaddress.rr.com wrote:
> Due to circumstances of my own doing, I have a bad problem withcredit
> card debt.
>
> Sparing the details, the company I worked for went under in 2002, I
> worked on my own and made little money for three years, and the job I
> got after that, though promsing, involves a long ramp-up curve; my
> best earnings are ahead of me.
>
> Right now, here are my circumstances:
>
> - Three bankcreditcardswith a total indebtedness of roughly $70k,
> and monthly payments of about $2,200
> - A fourth bank card on which I make all of my purchases and pay off
> in full every month
> - A 30k personal loan from Capital One with a $500 monthly payment
> - House fully mortgaged, no equity to tap, interest rate about 6.5%,
> 18 years left on a 20-year mortgage
> - car loan of $450 a month
>
> The interest rates on mycardsare all high - basically 19-29%.
>
> My wife and I together earn about $10k a month, and I expect this
> amount will begin to increase late to mid 2008. But I'm just dying
> under the weight of thesecards. I applied to Cap One earlier this
> month for a balance transfer on one of mycards, hoping to cut the
> interest rate, but I was turned down because of a combination of my
> income and the fact that my debt-carryingcardsare close to maxed.
>
> What are some good ways that I can cut these monthly payments? Or
> more accurately, maintain the monthly payments but have more money go
> to pay down the balance and less money go to interest? My wife and I
> both have FICO scores in the 700-740 range - not bluest of blue chip
> forcredit, but still very good.

troll

== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 27 2007 12:54 pm
From: JL

Damn, making 10K/month and having to use plastic tells me your lifestyle
is way too lavish. At that income level, you should be able to pay in
cash for whatever you need. I suspect you live in a pricey real estate
area like the San Francisco Bay Area or San Diego or New York and have
one of those insane $4000/month mortgages.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: is this feasible??
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/16a355cd27e0ea95?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 27 2007 3:10 am
From: createurfuture@gmail.com

please check out the design @ NASA tech contest and comment on it.

http://www.createthefuturecontest.com/pages/view/entriesdetail.html?entryID=798

--thanks.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 27 2007 4:10 am
From: Anthony Matonak

createurfuture@gmail.com wrote:
> please check out the design @ NASA tech contest and comment on it.

Sounds like blog-spam to me, but I'll bite...

> http://www.createthefuturecontest.com/pages/view/entriesdetail.html?entryID=798

The device is an automatically self-adjusting powered motorcycle stand,
similar to the devices used to level the gear on some helicopters.

Will it work? Most likely. Is it of any use? Probably not. The big heavy
bikes that could use powered stands aren't usually found parked on the
sides of hills and the off-road bikes are light enough not to require a
power stand.

Besides, there are less complex designs for adjustable stands already
out there and patented. A quick search found me this one...

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/7028850-fulltext.html

Anthony

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Free Sample of Friskies Indoor Dry Cat Food
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2624bd1f2a065dc8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 27 2007 5:04 am
From: "FreebiesPl.us"

Free Sample of Friskies Indoor Dry Cat Food
http://www.freebiespl.us/?p=373

==============================================================================
TOPIC: FREE Harman Kardon CD Visor!!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/df4329785ca9fe5e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 27 2007 5:08 am
From: "FreebiesPl.us"

FREE Harman Kardon CD Visor!!
http://www.freebiespl.us/?p=372

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Yet another Best Buy consumer horror story -- woman tasered by cop.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8fc4714b1a22ea0e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 27 2007 6:09 am
From: "Richard"

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5tfufkF1dj870U1@mid.individual.net...
> Richard <rfeirste@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> The police have a Duty to protect the rights of the citizen and not to
>> act as an agent of a mall or place of business.
>
> Wrong when theft is a real possibility.
>
>> This police officer did not use his authroity to protect the rights of
>> anyone
>
> Wrong when theft was a real possibility.
>
>> but exercised his discression to use a device that in a way that was not
>> intended by government.
>
> Wrong again. Tasers were issued so they could be used instead of guns
> when they are a more appropriate way to deal with a member of the public.
>
>> Only when someones life or limb is in danger should this device be used,
>
> You get no say what so ever on that or anything else at all, ever.
>
>> and even then a less intrussive option should be used if possible.
>
> There is no legal requirement to call up more goons
> to deal with that sort of outrageous behaviour.

It is called proper training. If the prospective police are adequately
screened before they are put on the street and adequately trained they will
not pull a gun or use a taser on an unarmed individual unless someone's life
or limb are in real danger. This does not seem to be the situation reported
in this case. There was no crime or violation of any law by the individual
who was tasered.

Richard

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 27 2007 7:16 am
From: William Souden

Richard wrote:
>
> It is called proper training. If the prospective police are adequately
> screened before they are put on the street and adequately trained they will
> not pull a gun or use a taser on an unarmed individual unless someone's life
> or limb are in real danger. This does not seem to be the situation reported
> in this case. There was no crime or violation of any law by the individual
> who was tasered.
>
> Richard
>
>

Rod Speed gets mentally tasered in this group on a regular basis.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 27 2007 10:47 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Richard <rfeirste@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:5tfufkF1dj870U1@mid.individual.net...
>> Richard <rfeirste@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The police have a Duty to protect the rights of the citizen and not
>>> to act as an agent of a mall or place of business.
>>
>> Wrong when theft is a real possibility.
>>
>>> This police officer did not use his authroity to protect the rights
>>> of anyone
>>
>> Wrong when theft was a real possibility.
>>
>>> but exercised his discression to use a device that in a way that
>>> was not intended by government.
>>
>> Wrong again. Tasers were issued so they could be used instead of guns
>> when they are a more appropriate way to deal with a member of the
>> public.
>>> Only when someones life or limb is in danger should this device be
>>> used,
>>
>> You get no say what so ever on that or anything else at all, ever.
>>
>>> and even then a less intrussive option should be used if possible.
>>
>> There is no legal requirement to call up more goons
>> to deal with that sort of outrageous behaviour.

> It is called proper training.

Its actually called effective and efficiently dealing with members
of the public that choose to behave like the stupid woman did.

You can be completely sure that she wont be pulling a stunt like that again, and
countless other individuals who have become aware of what can happen if you
pull a stunt like that when the cop warned her repeatedly, wont be trying it either.

> If the prospective police are adequately screened before they are put on the street and adequately trained they will
> not pull a gun or use a taser on an unarmed individual unless someone's life or limb are in real danger.

That aint the only reason that cops get to control the behaviour of members of the public.

Using that mindlessly silly line of yours, any criminal that chooses
to ignore a cops instruction to show that what he has just done is
reasonable in the circumstances with that possible faudulent card
use, the cop just has to shrug and let them go if they refuse to comply.

> This does not seem to be the situation reported in this case.

You're the one mindlessly asserting that tasers can only be used in that situation.

> There was no crime or violation of any law by the individual who was tasered.

That wasnt clear because that stupid woman refused to explain her activity when
there was a real possibility that fraudulent card use was being attempted and she
had attempted to flee the scene when the transaction could have been fraudulent.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Free Music, Movies, Games And More!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9cb3b2691b5152ca?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 27 2007 6:50 am
From: Sparky1635

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Buy Cheap Louis Vuitton Shoes, Burberry Shoes AT www.globwholesale.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0c27f28802aa6c35?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 27 2007 6:55 am
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TOPIC: buy cheap shoes (www.shoes-ec.com)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7b939106f67d7303?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 27 2007 8:46 am
From: hongfeng08@gmail.com

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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/de30674de46a7206?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
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TOPIC: Welcome to Best home jobs(monthily pay out check 2oo countries)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b15b76c80041a1fc?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 27 2007 10:38 am
From: jasmine

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TOPIC: Free Cottonelle Sample!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4049dfb0642eb158?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 27 2007 10:51 am
From: "FreebiesPl.us"

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Thursday, December 27, 2007

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