Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 18 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

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TOPIC: What's the difference?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/df54fd76af90ced4?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 1:57 am
From: Anthony Matonak

Douglas Berry wrote:
> Frugal is making intelligent choices designed to minimize your
> spending.
...
> Cheap is the tendency to always choose the least expensive option,
> regardless of quality, appropriateness, or public reaction.

I wouldn't put intelligence in the mix, or public opinion.

Frugal is simply getting the best value in an exchange. A frugal
lifestyle means getting the best value in exchange for your time,
effort, money, emotions or whatever else you use for barter.

Other peoples opinions are only frugal if these people base their
opinions on frugal values. It's more likely other random people
will prefer you to spend a lot more than they will spend themselves.

Cheap is going for the least cost, regardless of total value or
long term expense. What you buy is probably the smallest of
decisions that can be cheap and wind up costing you huge in the
long term. Not investing time, effort and money for an education,
a good spouse, good friends and a healthy lifestyle can lock a
person into a lifetime of low paying jobs, unhappiness and even
health issues.

In a sense, cheap is shortsighted (what it costs now) while frugal
is looking farther into the future (what is the total lifetime cost).

Anthony

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TOPIC: Discount Nike shoes, Jordan Sneakers,& Handbag,Mp3, Nokia N92 Mobile
Phone, Nokia 7500 Mobile Phone , Nokia N76 Mobile Phone, Apple Iphone
Wholesale, Lpod Nano , Nintendo Ds Lite And Nintendo Wii Wholesale
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7038c42053b4ae98?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 2:26 am
From: globwholesale@126.com

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Best regards!

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TOPIC: Free Book: Letters From Ruth's Attic by Ruth Bell Graham
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/72ee86363bfc6a20?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 2:39 am
From: "TheBestFreebies.com"

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--
The Best Freebies

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TOPIC: Supply basketball shoe, football shoes, clothes, hat and so onv
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/bc494de0c8470e1f?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 2:39 am
From: swukong40@gmail.com

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TOPIC: Crucial Criteria for choosing equipment.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ee8cb2f81c0d6b16?hl=en
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== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 2:53 am
From: "Brian"

> Their Scottish helpdesk told me to get lost over a faulty monitor, even
> though it was only 6 months old and displayed a vertical line with 4
> different computers (2 new Vista, 2 oldish XP). Monitor had to go in bin,
as
> the user couldn't work with it.
>
> Caveat Emptor.
>

Well you should not have given up. If the monitor was not more than 6 months
old, the sale of goods act - specifically the "provision of goods and
services regulations 2002" specifically state that any fault which manifests
itself within the first 6 months is deemd to have been there when supplied
new, and it is up to the supplier to PROVE that it was not.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 3:21 am
From: Roderick Stewart

In article <RH_3j.103$jy3.24@newsfe7-win.ntli.net>, Johngood_____ wrote:
> When it comes to buying a new flat screen television is there an insightful
> way to give priority to one or two criterion for choosing a new set from the
> massive and bewildering array of new models now on the market?

There's no universal rule. Priorities depend on what's important to you.

Do you want a big screen to fix to a wall, or a small one to stand on a table?
How many people will normally be watching this TV? Will it be switched on all
the time, or just for the occasional programme? Do you want to switch between
lots of players, receivers, gameboxes etc using the controls of the TV, or will
you be switching them externally and just using the TV as a display? Do you
need to use the built-in receiver? Will it be suitably located in relation to
your hi-fi system so you don't have to use the built-in loudspeakers?

Go and look at some in a shop. Look at the pictures, from straight in front and
from an oblique angle. Look at the frame and decide whether you like it. Look
at the number of sockets on the back and decide if they're enough for all the
things you plan to plug into it. Look at the power consumption. Look at the
price and after-sales backup arrangements. Once you've picked a few that look
promising, go home and do a Google search for the opinions and experiences of
people who have already bought them, because these will be far more valuable
than the sponsored "reviews" in magazines. Then make your decision.

Rod.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 4:13 am
From: Peter Lynch

On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 17:28:49 -0800, Anthony Matonak wrote:
> johngood_____ wrote:
>> When it comes to buying a new flat screen television is there an insightful
>> way to give priority to one or two criterion for choosing a new set from the
>> massive and bewildering array of new models now on the market?
> ...
> If you don't think you'll get into the whole HD thing then figure out
> how much resolution you need. Go to some stores and look at their
> screens to see what looks good to you.

When you do go and actually "eyeball" some TVs, view them from the same
distance you'll watch them at home (typically 10 - 15 feet IMHO). If you
stand right up close most pictures will look crap - including the one
on the TV you currently own.
Also, a lot of TV shops (Curry, Comet etc.) have their TVs very badly
set up, so in a lot of cases the differences you see between TVs or shops
is nothing to do with the quality of the TVs, merely the ineptitude of the
installer.

> Beware of advertiser-speak. You'll see things like "HDTV Ready" when
> they mean "Does not include an HDTV tuner" or "1080p Compatible" when
> they mean "It displays less than 1080p". There is a lot of this kind
> of almost-false advertising going on.

Very true. Often when you ask about these TVs in shops you'll get a load
of gobbeldygook back from the "sales" person. Most of this is either
irrelevant, wrong or amounts to nothing you want/need. Trust your own
experiences and do your homework before you venture out.

as Tarzan said "it's a jungle out there".

--
..........................................................................
. never trust a man who, when left alone ...... Pete Lynch .
. in a room with a tea cosy ...... Marlow, England .
. doesn't try it on (Billy Connolly) .....................................

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 5:08 am
From: tony sayer

In article <slrnfl2jvu.hu6.pete@freyr.local>, Peter Lynch
<pete@freyr.local> scribeth thus
>On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 17:28:49 -0800, Anthony Matonak wrote:
>> johngood_____ wrote:
>>> When it comes to buying a new flat screen television is there an insightful
>>> way to give priority to one or two criterion for choosing a new set from the
>>> massive and bewildering array of new models now on the market?
>> ...
>> If you don't think you'll get into the whole HD thing then figure out
>> how much resolution you need. Go to some stores and look at their
>> screens to see what looks good to you.
>
>When you do go and actually "eyeball" some TVs, view them from the same
>distance you'll watch them at home (typically 10 - 15 feet IMHO). If you
>stand right up close most pictures will look crap - including the one
>on the TV you currently own.
>Also, a lot of TV shops (Curry, Comet etc.) have their TVs very badly
>set up, so in a lot of cases the differences you see between TVs or shops
>is nothing to do with the quality of the TVs, merely the ineptitude of the
>installer.
>

A lot of shops don't show off air TV they use blue ray discs
instead;!...

--
Tony Sayer

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 7:06 am
From: Tony Bryer

On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 21:46:24 -0000 Super wrote :
> Their [Samsung] Scottish helpdesk told me to get lost over a faulty
> monitor, even though it was only 6 months old and displayed a vertical
> line with 4 different computers (2 new Vista, 2 oldish XP). Monitor
> had to go in bin, as the user couldn't work with it.

My first TFT monitor, a Panasonic, developed a blank horizontal line
fault 2 years and 11 months into the manufacturers 3 year guarantee.
Collected, fixed and returned without the slightest quibble. Subsequently
when buying monitors I have always paid a bit more for a known name.

--
TonyB

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 9:18 am
From: Lordy.UK

> > Their [Samsung] Scottish helpdesk told me to get lost
> > over a faulty monitor
>
> My first TFT monitor, a Panasonic, developed a blank horizontal
> line fault 2 years and 11 months into the manufacturers 3 year
> guarantee. Collected, fixed and returned without the slightest
> quibble. Subsequently when buying monitors I have always paid a
> bit more for a known name.

Last time I checked "Samsung" *was* a known name...

--
Lordy.UK

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TOPIC: MI5 Persecution: BBC Newscasters Spying on my Home (1061)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cebaaa8af5d03a43?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 3:03 am
From: MI5Victim@mi5.gov.uk

MI5 Persecution Update: Friday 13 November, 1998

If You Intend To Reply, Please Read This

If you have any questions or observations you would like to share with me,
then you are very welcome to reply to my fax number 0171-681-1190. But
please.... keep your response to one page if you can! I have had several
people faxing my article back to me, including one MP faxing back twenty
pages. I do not know if he had anything intelligent to say in his 20-page
fax because I applied judicious use of the "Delete" key on my
computer. Faxes over a page or two will be deleted without being read.

MI5 Resume Hostilities in Response to these Faxes

When I wrote last weeks "MI5 Persecution Update" I remarked how quiet my
life had become. No longer! MI5 have restarted hostilities with a
vengeance the past week, in response I believe to the faxes I have been
sending to members of the House of Commons.

On Saturday 7 November I went to Clapham Picture House cinema to see the
film "Antz" (a very enjoyable film). At the cinema, I was verbally
assaulted by a group of teenagers with the words "still crazy", repeated
about ten times. There was a film with that name showing at the cinema,
but it was clear their abuse was directed at me. I do not look ill, so why
would they pick on me? answer, the incident was set-up by the
persecutors. One of the teenagers also said to another, "I don't know what
we're laughing at".

The following day, Sunday 8/11/98, I was on my way to play squash when I
was verbally assaulted by a youth who said "it was so funny", without the
slightest trace of humour. What he meant by this phrase was that was
funny, and they were trying to humiliate me. I have heard this phrase "it
was so funny" used at me before many, many times over the last eight and
half years.

Please Encourage Keith Hill MP to Help Me

I live in a bugged house, bugged both for audio and video. My movements
are monitored by MI5. The Security Service have followed me to Canada, to
Poland and the Continent, to the States. I cannot work anywhere, not in
England, not in Canada, because MI5 will destroy whatever employment I am
able to obtain. I have asked Keith Hill MP to help me, and he has refused.

The situation is intolerable. It is Mr Hills job to help me out of this
mess. So, please, as I said in the last fax a week ago: Do not waste your
time returning multiple copies of my faxes to my fax mailbox, as some of
you have done. Instead;

Please encourage Keith Hill M.P. to help me.

I am sorry to be using this device to encourage Mr Hill to help, but I
think eight and half years are quite enough and it is time something was
done to bring this matter to a close.

MI5 Persecution : BBC Newscasters Spying on my Home

This week's topic is the quite extraordinary claim that BBC newscasters
such as Martyn Lewis and Michael Buerk have spied on my living room while
they read the news. I currently have an advert running for the next six
months in Private Eye's "Eye Say" column (at a cost of over #200) which
says,"MI5 Persecution - BBC Newscasters Spying on my Home"; the story of
my campaign in the Eye is on my Website
at; http://www.pair.com/spook/evidence/plaint/priveye.htm

BBCs staff magazine Ariel also ran my advert "BBC Newsreaders Spying on my
home" for one issue in the Personal category on 8/July/1997 before it was
spotted and axed by editor Robin Reynolds; please see
webpage; http://www.pair.com/spook/evidence/plaint/ariel.htm

Beginnings

The very first incident in the "MI5/BBC Persecution" occurred in June of
1990, when a newsreader reacted to what she saw in my living room at home
as she read the news. My mother had brought an apple for me into the room,
whereupon the newsreader smirked and giggled, apparently finding this
funny. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I carried on watching news
and other television programmes to see if presenters would show signs of
"interactive watching"; to my surprise, this happened again and
again. Unfortunately, I did not have my wits sufficiently about me to
videotape these programmes, and it is now almost impossible to obtain
recordings dating back to 1990.

Most of the "TV watching" has occurred on the news, and most of it in
summer 1990, although some as late as autumn 1993. My website has a few
extracts of what might be politicians "getting at" me, in particular John
Major and interviewer Dimbleby sharing a joke about the "Knutsford
Guardian" which is almost certainly about me.

I sold my portable TV in autumn 1990 and stopped watching television
regularly. I realise now that this may have been a mistake. What I should
have done was to watch TV and listen to the radio, but tape-record
everything and make a note of what each excerpt meant to me. I would then
be in a much stronger position as regards to evidence that I am now. That
is what I am trying to do now, but unsurprisingly the TV/radio presenters
have stopped getting at me, now they know they are being recorded.

Examples of Media Harassment

Here are a few examples which I can still remember of media harassment;

In early 1992 I was watching the BBC news with Martyn Lewis on a small
black-and-white portable television at my then home in Oxford. I threw a
term of abuse at Lewis; he flinched, then gave a grin and made a comment
from which I understood that he had been on my side, but might have
changed his mind as a result of what Id just said to him.

Victor Lewis Smith in his TV (BBC2?) program at the end of 1993, had a
taxi-driver saying, "theyre all out to get me", to which VLS replied, "but
you're quite intelligent aren't you?" (what a nice chap VLS is,
compliments no less!)

Paul Daniels the TV magician, sometime in 1990-92 (sorry I can't be more
precise but it was so long ago), made a "crying face" and put his face in
his hands, which was his way of expressing that I was frequently crying in
1990-92, and that he and other media people found my crying funny.

Kenny Everett (deceased) on some talk show, compared me to a "huge
ape" who "scratches himself"; he made some other remarks about what the
"ape" got up to which unfortunately I cant remember. (I remember that
Everetts comments were quite sympathetic and human, but were obviously
about me.)

Stephen Fry on another talkshow (Wogan I think) talking about
"masturbatory fantasies", he then referred to me with the words "you
prat"; I wonder if the studio audience knew what he was talking about and
to whom his comments were directed?

Griff Rhys Jones on Clive James' TV show, made a "lunatic face" (wide
fixed grin) to which I said to the TV that he had a "face like a horse's
arse", to which Clive James said to GRJ "did you hear that?"

Crimestoppers summer 1990, remarks by a Midlands police officer on the
programme, while Nick Ross was presenter (as far as I can remember). The
officer talked about "in car entertainment". Nick Ross said to officer,
"why don't you stop doing it?" to which he replied, "we can't while he's
like this".

BBC2 Newsnight in autumn 1993 had a piece on football hooliganism. A black
interviewee said apparently of the hooligans, but in fact of me; "they're
just idiots, carry on with the surveillance".

There was an incident with Jonathan Ross which I remember clearly; he was
on both BBC and ITV television at the same time, one (ITV I think) was
recorded, the other channel was live. Ross has a speech impediment which
causes him to pronounce his "r"s as "w". I sarcastically said something
about "Mr Woss" to the recorded channel, then turned over to where he was
live, and he repeated "Woss" with heavy emphasis and sarcasm.

On the radio, in spring 1994, Chris Tarrant made a sarcastic remark in his
morning show, saying "he says were trying to kill him, we should be done
for attempted manslaughter", to which another of the studio staff said,
"oh no, dont say that". His comment was in reply to a comparison Id made
the previous evening between my persecutors and the Polish secret police
who murdered dissidents.

Martyn Lewis Denies & Lies, But Wont in Writing

In February 1997 I wrote to BBC Viewer & Listener Correspondence and asked
them to investigate the claim that their newscasters had engaged in
"interactive watching". They replied that they had asked Martyn Lewis and
Michael Buerk whether they had engaged in such practices, and that they
had both made verbal denials to VLC, but were refusing to put their
denials in writing.

I can understand that they might think that if they were to make written
denials to me, then many other people with my condition might write to
them with similar questions. But Ive asked a couple of journalists if
theyve been writing about me, theyve made written denials, Ive believed
them, and I have not put their denials on my website because, since I
believe their denials, it would not be relevant to publish them.

To me it looks as if Lewis and Buerk are happy to lie verbally but not in
writing, because written falsehoods would place them unambiguously in the
wrong, whereas they can try to talk their way out of verbal lies if they
are ever caught, or perhaps even deny the verbal lies completely? If they
lie without shame, then why would they have any shame about future lies
about lying?

One of the strangest aspects of "TV watching" is that Buerk and Lewis have
convinced themselves that their "interactive spying" is reasonable
behaviour. Martyn Lewis thinks of himself as a "gentleman". He expressed
in 1992 that he was "on my side". If this matter ever comes out into the
open, I wonder what these newscasters will have to say for themselves, and
what the British public will make of their behaviour?

Media Persecution Evidence on my Website

You may directly access the Evidence section on my website at URL;

The category currently contains four video segments, a number of audio
files and three published articles. The first video of ITN's John Suchet
is unfortunately a mistake - after looking at it again it is obviously not
about me. The two Ken Clarke excerpts may or may not be about me; it is
funny that he should keep on harping about "paranoia" and "madness", but I
have given these ratings of only 30% certainty, as it is more likely that
they are not about me in particular, and Clarke is simply displaying the
normal prejudices against the mentally ill found in much of society.

The piece I find most interesting is the Dimbleby/John Major interview
from April 1997. I have assigned this a 90% rating. Dimbleby starts by
emphasising a report from the "Knutsford Guardian". Major recognizes
what's going on and joins in with a falsely apologetic "heaven
forfend". The emphasis is on the first syllable pronounced "nuts" in
"Knutsford", which is repeated three times. Of course this is hardly
anywhere near convincing evidence; the really clear items were all in
1990-92, and they are basically unobtainable now.

If you're reading the website, have a look at the two files from David
Hepworth's programme on GLR radio. The first one from 21/Feb/1997 has him
talking about an "embarassment" of prizes and "absolute obscene", in
reference I believe to the verbal sexual abuse that was being used against
me at the time (and which unfortunately is still current). In the second
file dated 9/May/1997 he again talks about "absolute embarrassment" of
prizes, followed by laughter. To my mind he knows I am listening to his
programme, and deliberately makes these remarks for my benefit, with very
little attempt to disguise their purpose.

Bernard Levin - "Fanatic's Fare for the Common Man"

On 21 September 1991 this article by Bernard Levin appeared in The
Times. It is reproduced in the Evidence section of the website, or may be
accessed directly at URL;

To my mind, Levin's article described the situation at the time and in
particular a recent meeting with a friend, during which I for the first
time admitted to someone other than my GP that I had been subjected to a
conspiracy of harassment over the previous year and a half.

Levin writes about a "madman running loose about London" who "bursts into
tears, and swears it is all true. And it is." I am pleased to agree with
his assertion that "it is all true" because the truth is what I presented
to my friend in September 1991 and it is what is being presented to the
readership of these articles now.

Conclusion

The harassment, in particular media persecution, was at its strongest in
1990-92. Today, I am recording everything I watch, read and listen, and
the media have pretty much given up. It is now incidents "in public" which
make up what there is of MI5s persecution. But much of the material from
1990-92 still exists in archives, although the organisations which have
those archives generally wont make the material available to the public,
for copyright and other reasons.

MI5 can no longer employ the media to persecute me, partly because
journalists now know who is behind the persecution, and also because I
would publish any instances. My mistake during 1990-92 was to not record
instances as they happened; Ive learned from that mistake, and know better
now.

1061

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TOPIC: Only 30k miles from tires?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a84bf58bf2c23f50?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 3:53 am
From: George

Gordon wrote:
> George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote in
> news:zJCdnU5aE9h0os3anZ2dnUVZ_uSdnZ2d@comcast.com:
>
>> Gordon wrote:
>>> me@privacy.net wrote in news:3eptk3p0k2o6a5uk0s1q7k04r4edkf3lla@
> 4ax.com:
>>>> Seems like my 2000 Mazda Protege ES just goes through
>>>> tires!
>>>>
>>>> I just bought 4 new tires July 2006 and 30k miles later
>>>> (now) they are almost worn out.
>>>>
>>>> Is 30k mile abt right for tire life now days?
>>>>
>>>> What you get?
>>> What was the rated life of the tire?? 30K may be what
>>> they were rated for.
>>>
>>> Had the alignment checked recently?
>>>
>>> Also check the wear pattern. Over or under inflated tires
>>> will wear out faster.
>>>
>>> A trick to extending tire life on a front wheel drive car
>>> is to not rotate the tires. On a front wheel drive car
>>> the front tires take most of the wear. Go ahead and let
>>> them wear. Then replace them. But keep the rear tires.
>> I don't understand the trick. I think there will be little actual
>> difference in "tire consumption" compared to rotation.
>>
>
> Because the front tires take most of the braking and acceleration.
> it isn't just rotation that wears out tires. On a front wheel drive
> car the front tires work very hard.

I know that front tires wear quicker especially on front wheel drive.
But the car has 4 tires and there is a net amount of wear no matter
where the tires are installed. My question was how is there a reduction
in net wear by not doing rotation?

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TOPIC: MI5 Persecution: Four Years of MI5 Persecution Posts on Internet
Newsgroups (8416)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9b554f529b0fd7ae?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 5:01 am
From: MI5Victim@mi5.gov.uk

Four Years of "MI5 Persecution" Posts on Internet Newsgroups

For approximately the first three years of the MI5 persecution, from June
1990 until late 1992, I kept as quiet as possible, in the hope that by not
reacting, MI5s interest in me would decrease and they would simply go away
of their own accord. This is the sort of behaviour some people employ
against bullies; if the bullies arent getting a reaction, then they might
simply go away and victimize someone else.

Unfortunately, this tactic didnt work. The quieter I became, the more
shrill and hysterical the noise from the Security Service operatives. For
about two years I didnt watch TV news at all. Yet this only heightened
their obsessed fixation; they continued to follow me wherever I went, they
continued to induce harassment at work by managers and fellow workers, and
they continued to encourage me to commit suicide. They seemed to regard my
refusal to react as a crime which they would have to "put right" by ever
more extreme forms of abuse.

Finally, in 1995, I changed tactics radically. Since late 1994 I had had
accounts with internet providers in Ontario, Canada. I discovered the
cornucopia of internet newsgroups, on every topic from consumer
electronics, to politics and legal topics, and I discovered online
services such as Compuserve and AOL. In May 1995, I made the first posting
to the conspiracy newsgroup, on the subject of "BBCs Hidden Shame".

BBC's Hidden Shame

The internet newsgroup discussion, which has now reached its fourth
anniversary, started with an article in alt.conspiracy, which I reproduce
here.

Date: Thu May 4 18:27:24 1995
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: BBC's Hidden Shame

Remember the two-way televisions in George Orwell's 1984? The ones which watched you
back? Which you could never get rid of, only the sound could be turned down?

Well the country which brought Orwell into the world has made his nightmare follow into
the world after him. Since 1990 the British have been waging war against one of their
own citizens using surveillance to invade privacy and a campaign of abuse in the
transmitted media in their efforts to humiliate their "victim".

And the most remarkable thing about it is that what they do is not even illegal - the
UK has no laws to protect the privacy of its citizens, nor does it proscribe harassment
or abuse except in the case of racial abuse.

A lot of people in England know this to be going on, yet so far they have maintained
perfect "omerta"; not a sound, not a squeak has escaped into the English press, and for
all the covert harassment absolutely nothing has come out into the public domain.

Have the British gone mad? I think we should be told

At this point, I did not name MI5 as my persecutors. I was still unsure
that they were the ones responsible for the "psychological terrorism". In
followup posts however I did name them; and the persecutors have never
denied the claim; so I think my guess is valid. (The Security Service
Tribunal in 1997 have said "no determination in your favour was made", but
it is a well established fact that MI5 lies routinely to the Tribunal
which has never found in favour of a plaintiff, so no conclusions can be
drawn from this.)

This first post was made to alt.conspiracy, but further posts were made to
the UK-local newsgroups, in particular uk.misc but also uk.legal and
uk.politics (which is now called uk.politics.misc). Some time ago I tried
to take the battle to the Compuserve forums, UKPOLITICS (which is now
called UKCURRENT - current affairs), but my articles were censored by the
forum operators. Such censorship is impossible on the internet newsgroups.

Police Refuse to Act

I have complained several times to the Metropolitan Police, who have each
time refused to help.

From: Green <Green@guidion.demon.co.uk>
Newsgroups: uk.misc,uk.politics,alt.politics.british,soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: MI5 Persecution: Why Aren't the British Police Doing Their
Job?
Reply-To: Green@guidion.demon.co.uk
Date: Sun Apr 7 21:13:30 1996

In article <DpIE0r.736.0.bloor@torfree.net>
bu765@torfree.net "Mike Corley" writes:

>Last Easter (1995) I went into the local police station in London and spoke to
>an officer about the harassment against me. But I couldn't provide tangible
>evidence; what people said, in many cases years ago, is beyond proof, and
>without something to support my statements I cannot expect a police officer to
>take the complaint seriously.

This in itself dos not suggest that the police have it in for you. The old bill
operates on extremely tight spending limits forced on them by that pillock Michael
Howard, and without evidence, they often have higher priorities than chasing something
that cannot go to court.

I doubt that the police are actually being leant on, but they probably realise that if
they looked into this, they would be leant on hard. The met always stays away from
anything that looks like it has Defence, Security or secret service interest already,
because they realise that they are below these government agencies in the general
pecking order.

If I walked into my local nick and complained that MI5 were snooping on me, they would
show me the door without even looking at my evidence, because that bored desk seargant
with only five years to go before he retires doesn't want to start fucking about with
somebody who has incurred the wrath of Stella Rimington. He would rather deal with the
lost dogs and driving licence producers, eat his cheese and pickle sandwiches and piss
off home at the end of his shift than have some high ranking spook having a go at his
boss and getting him a bollocking.

In short, you have earned much sympathy but little surprise. Just remember that saying
about the enemy of your enemies.

Most recently, I wrote in March 1999 to Charing Cross Police Station
CID. They did not acknowledge or reply to my letter. When I phoned them
up, the detective Id written to treated me to a sadly not unusual display
of police bigotry, with an uneducated rant about "your paranoid rubbish".

It would be nice to think that such uneducated bigotry is something other
than wholly typical of police behaviour, but unfortunately that is an
illusion that is rapidly dispelled.

Uncorruptible Jon Snow of Channel Four News

From previous articles the reader will know what I think Jon Snow has
recently been watching me while he reads Channel Four News in the
evening. Recently I digitized a few moments of one such broadcast, where
his face twists into a smile, without there being anything in the news
broadcast to cause merriment. Here is a usenet post from some time ago on
MI5s "bought and paid for" tools in the so-called "free" press.

Peter Harding (harding@ermine.ox.ac.uk) wrote:
: I was at speakers' corner on Sunday. There was one chap who was bellowing
: about something or other, I don't know what, but one thing he said to
: someone caught my ear:

: "BBC, MI5, same thing."

Can't disagree with that sentiment.

Wasn't it documented that MI5 sometimes "bought" journalists and broadcasters?
I remember reading a report by some jouralist who had been offered an extra
tax-free income by MI5 to become their covert mouthpiece, and had refused.
.............................................................................
> : >mouthpiece, and had refused.
> :
> : It was Jon Snow of Channel 4.
>
> Was it reported in any of the papers?

It has been reported several times. The most recent was in Private Eye,
a few months back. As I recall they also wanted information from him;
journalists would be a natural choice for members of the Security Service
and the Secret Intelligence Service for information sources.

> It might be interesting to see what he had to say regarding their
> attempt to recruit him.

He was most concerned that many others would have accepted such an
offer. However, we can probably make an educated guess as to some of
those who accepted: Nigel West (Rupert Allason, MP) and Chapman Pincher
would come near to the top of the list.

--
\/ David Boothroyd. Socialist and election analyst. Omne ignotum pro
magnifico.
British Elections and Politics at
http://www.qmw.ac.uk/~laws/election/home.html
I wish I was in North Dakota. Next General Election must be before 22nd May '97
The House of Commons now : C 324, Lab 272, L Dem 25, UU 9, PC 4, SDLP 4, SNP 4,
UDUP 3, Ind 1, Ind UU 1, Spkrs 4. Government majority = 1. Telephone Tate 6125.

Corrupt Security Service agents steal millions from taxpayers

Money is of course a factor in the grand equation which is the MI5
persecution. It costs money for the Security Service to "buy" people in
the media etc. But that is only a small part of their expenditure of
taxpayers resources. Most of the expenditure is directly on the salaries
if the agents involved; and in this post I put forward the theory that MI5
are trying to draw out their involvement for as long as possible, very
cynically, to maximise their income and line their own pockets.

At each stage they have tried to pretend that I am something out of the ordinary.
Either I was very stupid ("he's an idiot") or very clever ("he's like a genius").
Either I was a threat to Western civilization (Levin once referred to me as the next
Hitler) or I was completely defenceless ("a soft toy").

Now, it should be obvious to any person with common-sense that I am not out of the
ordinary in any way. I have an IQ which is average for the Web, I am racially white
European, and there are plenty of other people with schizophrenia or epilepsy out there
who haven't been targeted for MI5 attention, so why me?

I think the answer is that the MI5 agents who harass me have cynically exploited the
situation by painting me as extraordinary in order to assure themselves of well-paid
employment funded by the ordinary British taxpayer. To put it bluntly, they are
stealing millions of pounds from the taxpayer to feed their own pockets.

This assertion is supported by the observation that it's the same agents who are doing
the harassment. Six months ago in a local hospital I was harassed by someone whose face
I had seen (he had stared straight at me aggressively, at the time I just thought it
was some nutter but it turns out he was one of "them") aboard a KLM flight a couple of
years ago. It's presumably been the same people most of the time. I've seen the way
contractors act when they don't want their positions terminated. Would these agents
really want to lose their well-paid employment harassing me? Presumably they are
promising their bosses a "breakthrough" (ie my demise) real-soon-now and have been for
the last seven years, while all the while these MI5 agents skim millions
off the taxpayer.

I wouldn't mind a job like that. Perhaps if I persecute myself a little bit, like
standing in front of a mirror and shouting mindless obscenities, do you reckon I'd get
a slice of the caky Service Tribunal. This year Nick Brooks, current
Tribunal Secretary, confirmed to me that he could not think of a single
case where the Tribunal had found in favour of a complainant. Here is my
usenet post from two years ago.

Subject: MI5: "It wasn't us"
Newsgroups: uk.misc,uk.legal
Organization: Toronto Free-Net

"The Security Service Tribunal have now investigated your complaint and have
asked me to inform you that no determination in your favour has been made on
your complaint."

Signed ER Wilson, Tribunal Secretary

Well that's a relief then. All that spamming for nothing eh. Gaw blimey, if
they say they're not doing it then it can't be them, can it?

In a recent letter to Mr Brooks I expressed the opinion that the Tribunal
were unable to fulfil their responsibilities in the face of MI5
falsehoods. Nevertheless, I do intend to make another complaint to the
Tribunal in the near future, despite the Tribunal appearing to be a
toothless watchdog.

Discrimination against a Unit Minority

MI5 have been very clear in their instructions as to what I should
do. They have openly shouted at me the word "suicide", and also from the
other abuse it is clear that they want my existence terminated.

This point is covered in more detail in a previous article. The following
post describes the xenophobic nature of MI5s campaign against me. They
have refined their bigotry down to a unit minority, yet they make use of
the discrimination against the mentally ill which is a feature of current
British society.

Subject: Re: MI5 says "Kill Yourself"
Newsgroups: uk.misc,uk.legal,uk.politics.misc,uk.media
References: <zlsiida.4248.3258FE24@fs1.mcc.ac.uk>
<53eeev$cmg@axalotl.demon.co.uk>
Organization: Toronto Free-Net
Distribution:

iain@hotch.demon.co.uk (Iain L M Hotchkies) wrote:
>Indeed. If you've ever had a 'conversation' with someone suffering
>from florid schizophrenia, you'll know how difficult it can be to
>'argue' with them.

I don't have florid symptoms. But I'm in a difficult situation, because those
people who don't know, aren't going to believe, and those who do, they just go
along with the crowd. It's never a good idea to go against the grain, and the
grain here is defined by interests in the establishment and the media. Even
people who could say out loud what was happening won't, because then there's a
risk that they'll be seen as traitors and ostracised.

Usually this type of 'hidden abuse' is racial and targetted at a racial
minority within a country. You keep the minorities out of the good jobs, but
you don't admit discrimination exists. It happens everywhere, not just in
Britain. The persecution that is going on now is in reality a refined form of
racism. Instead of "nigger" it's "nutter", and abusing the mentally ill is
still socially acceptable today. In 50 years it might not be, but today there
isn't any social or legal sanction against it.

So really they've refined racial harassment down to a minority of one. The
words may be different, but the methods are the same.

8416

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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 5:05 am
From: "Don K"

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>
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Or clean it up and lay it out flat on your living room rug and invite all your
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Don

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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 7:51 am
From: "shopbb.com"

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sneaks and apparel.the products
our company supply are as follows:
1).Nike Jordans
Jordan 1 jordan 1.5 jordan 2 jordan 3 jordan 3.5 jordan 4 jordan 5
jordan 5.5 jordan 6 jordan 6.5 jordan 7 jordan 8 jordan 9 jordan 9.5
jordan 10 jordan 11 jordan 12 jordan 13 jordan 13.5 jordan 14 jordan
15 jordan 16 jordan 17 jordan 18 jordan 18.5 jordan 19 jordan 20
jordan 21 jordan 21.5 jordan 22 jordan King jordan Dub Zero Jordan 23
Jordan 7.5
2).Air Force One Air Force one (low) Air Force one (High) Air Force
one (Mid) Air Force one (clear) Air Force One 25 year
3).SHOX Shox R3 Shox R4 Shox R5 Shox TL1 Shox TL2 Shox TL3 Shox NZ
Shox OZ Shox Turbo Show GO Shox CL Shox Coqnescenti Shox Energia Shox
Explodine Shox Monster Shox Rhythmic Shox Warrior
4).Bape Shoes Bape Bape (transparent)
5).Air max AirMax 90 AirMax 95 AirMax 97 AirMax 2003 AirMax 2004
AirMax 2005 Air Max 2006 AirMax 180 AirMax LTD AirMax TN AirMax solas
AirMax 87 AirMax Rift
6).Puma Puma Rpt2 Puma SK6 Puma Jayfi Puma Cir Puma Speed Puma Repli
Puma Future Cat Puma Mostro Puma Lifestyle
7).Dunk SB Dunk High Dunk Low
8).Timberland Timberland High Timberland Low
9).Adidas Adidas 35 Adicolor Country city sense Adidas NBA
11).Prada & Gucci Prada Gucci
12).Footballer Shoes Footballer
13).Locaste
14).converse & Reebok converse Reebok
15).D&G shoes
16).Dsquared2 shoes
17).James shoes
18).Nike King
9).Children shoes Jordan Shox
20).Women shoes Women Jordans Women Shox R3 Women Shox R4 Women AirMax
95&97 Women AirMax 03&06 Women Dunk Women Shox NZ Women AF1
21).sandal & baboosh Nike Puma Gucci Prada
CLOTHES 1).Bape 2).ED Hardy 3).BBC 4).CLH 5).LRG 6).Artful Dodger
Hoodies 7).GINO GREEN GLOBAL 8).10 Deep 9).A&F Coat 11).Jersey NBA
Jersey Football Jersey 12).Juicy Bikini 13).Adidas Coat 14).F1 Coat
15).D&G Coat 16).Superman Coat 17).NBA Coat
JEAN 1).E&D Jeans 2).BBC Jeans 3).BAPE Jeans 4).D&G Jeans 5).EVSIU
Jeans 6).Red monkey 7).COOGI Jeans
T-shirt 1).POLO 2007 polo(women) 2007 POLO IIII(Men) POLO (stripe)
polo (small )
2).Lacoste Lacoste (LONG) Lacoste (SHORT) 3).Name Brand shirt D&G
Shirt Giorgio Armani TN Shirt 4).BBC T-shirt 5).LRG & gina green
glalal 6).Triumvir 7).ED handy 8).Evsiu 9).R.M.B 10).CLOT
Burse & Handbag 1).LV Bag 2).Gucci Bag 3).Dior Bag 4).Chanel Bag
5).Fendi Bag 6).Coach Bag 7).Burberrys Bag 8).Prada Bag 9).Man Leisure
Bag 11).D&G bag 12).nike bag 13).Wallet 14).Suitcase
Electronics 1).Vertu Mobile 2).New iphone Mobile 3).Nokia Mobile
4).moto Mobile 5).PSP Game & memory card 6).Sony Mobile 7).Samsung
Mobile 8).Ipod nano 9).Sony PS3 10).Laptops IBM laptops DELL laptops
Sony laptops ASUS laptops
CAP 1).ED Hardy Cap 2).New Bape & NY Cap 3).RMC Cap 4).New era NBA
5).F1 6).Chanel 7).D&G 8).gucci 9).LV 10).Prada 11).PUMA 12).wool
WATCH 1).Rolex 2).Omega 3).Cartier 4).Chanel 5).Piaget 6).Breitling
7).Bvlgari 8).Corum
Sunglasses 1).Gucci Sunglasses 2).D&G Sunglasses 3).Dior Sunglasses
4).LV Sunglasses 5).Chanel Sunglasses 6).Prada Sunglasses 7).Versace
Sunglasses 8).Giorgio Armani
Strap 1).Bape Strap 2).D&G Strap 3).Gucci Strap 4).LV Strap 5).Scarf
Other 1).Lighter

Clothing Size:
S M L XL XXL XXXL XXXXL XXXXXL

7.because the space of the website is limited,we can also supply many
other products which be not showed out in our site. if you have the
photos of the products you need , we are pleasure to supply for your
orders.
And our company can supply for our customers ,as follow:
1. top quality.all our products have top quality.
2. most rational price. we offer the most competitive price to you to
open your market. So today most of our products have sold well in the
America, Europe, Middle East, Southeast Asia etc..
3. safe and fast shipment. As different country you are in, we will
deliver the products to you by different ways and pledge to arrive to
your address 100%.and we will send the products to you within 24h
after we get your payment.
4.many products in stock. We have many products in stock and kinds of
size you need , also include kid's.
5.our credit. If the products can be not delivered to your address as
our reason, we will refund the money you paid.
Hope sincerely to have glad and long term business relationship with
you.
If you are interested in our products and have any problem, welcome
to
contact us.
Please trust us , we will be your best choice !!!
Website : http://www.fashion-sky.com
MSN and E-mail: fashion-sky@hotmail.com
Yahoo ID:mallinchina@yahoo.com.cn
Michael
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TOPIC: cheap buy sell d&g g-star shmack aftful dodger aka stash house diesel
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3ee0d5a2b59c1b21?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 8:15 am
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Coinstar Warning
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0a78df299577cc2f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 8:19 am
From: sarge137

On Nov 29, 1:28 pm, "Roger Shoaf" <sh...@nospamsyix.com> wrote:
> I really do not understand why there are so many folks with vast
> accumulations of coins. What I do is to use the coins as they are intended.
> If my purchase comes to $8.32, I will rid my pocket of either $.32 cents or
> if my pocket does not have that much, then I will give them either 2 cents
> or 7 cents.
>
> Seems to me I never have much more than $2-3 change in my pockets at a time.
>
> --
>
> Roger Shoaf
>
> About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
> they come up with this striped stuff.
>
Well Roger, I don't think it's so much that people set out accumulate
"vast" quantities of coin. Personally, I can't stand having coins
ringing and jingling in my pocket. I use them up as I can, but at the
end of the day there are always some left over. They go into a jar on
my dresser. When the jar is full I take it to my credit union where
it's counted and deposited in my account for free. For now, it's a
little bimonthly or quarterly bonus that I use to take my wife out for
a nice dinner, or buy her a gift. If the credit union ever starts
charging for the service I guess those nasty coins will go back into
my pocket in the morning. Nobody will ever find bags of coins in my
house.

Regards,
Sarge

==============================================================================
TOPIC: mortgage refinancing
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/924e210f22812fca?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 8:42 am
From: uapb22

Get into the Mortgage Bushiness.
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== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 8:44 am
From: uapb22

Get into the Mortgage Bushiness.
Make Huge Bucks your First Day
http://mortgage.muchanime.com/

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 8:44 am
From: uapb22

Get into the Mortgage Bushiness.
Make Huge Bucks your First Day
http://mortgage.muchanime.com/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Earn $10,000 A Month From Your Bedroom!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a71fd937df53d15c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 9:05 am
From: mathewvettori@googlemail.com

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Saturday, December 1, 2007

25 new messages in 18 topics - digest

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