http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en
misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* Living without a credit card - 15 messages, 10 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1543df3db7e868b6?hl=en
* Christ in Islam - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/06c4482e668dd598?hl=en
* Free Plant Seeds to Save Bees - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/069d01cc43edcd93?hl=en
* more laptop selection help - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/614f763badc82c6b?hl=en
* Canned Mackerel - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f049abff31c44b3a?hl=en
* How much do you really save turning down the thermostat? - 4 messages, 4
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e6b14ffb2d998b9e?hl=en
* Free Dunkin' Donuts(r) Coffee - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e3934937368911bc?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Living without a credit card
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1543df3db7e868b6?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 15 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 2 2007 10:55 am
From: "Rod Speed"
Paul Pluzhnikov <ppluzhnikov-nsp@charter.net> wrote
> clams casino <PeterGriffin@drunkin-clam.com> wrote
>> I think it will be difficult to find a low risk, 4%+ bank account.
> Not really:
> http://home.ingdirect.com/products/products.asp?s=OrangeSavingsAccount
Its less clear how those will fair in the sub prime fiasco.
== 2 of 15 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 2 2007 10:50 am
From: Paul Pluzhnikov
"** Frank **" <noemall@xyz.net> writes:
> clams casino <PeterGriffin@drunkin-clam.com> writes:
>> In fact, by paying them off every
>> month, I realize a good $500+ gain every year in rebates.
>>
>
> Wow, that is fantastic! Which card do you use and how much do you have to
> spend to get back $500?
I use REI Visa (http://www.reivisa.com), which gives %1 cash back
on everything, with no maximum. I pay for *everything* with it,
including (reimbursed) business travel and many utility bills.
When you fly a couple of times a year, rent cars, and stay in hotels,
it isn't hard to spend $50K/year, which produces that $500 rebate.
Cheers,
--
In order to understand recursion you must first understand recursion.
Remove /-nsp/ for email.
== 3 of 15 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 2 2007 11:06 am
From: Scott in SoCal
On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 12:39:22 -0500, Just A User
<ken@up-yours-spammer.net> wrote:
>I have 6 cards that I use on a
>rotating basis for normal expenses. I pay the balance off every month.
SIX cards?
What's the advantage to rotating through 6 cards instead of just using
1 (or 2, or 3)?
== 4 of 15 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 2 2007 10:53 am
From: Paul Pluzhnikov
Just A User <ken@up-yours-spammer.net> writes:
> I have 6 cards that I use on a rotating basis for normal expenses.
Why do you "rotate" them?
It's not like they will spoil if you don't use them, is it?
Cheers,
--
In order to understand recursion you must first understand recursion.
Remove /-nsp/ for email.
== 5 of 15 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 2 2007 11:17 am
From: The Etobian
On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 12:35:39 -0500, clams casino
<PeterGriffin@drunkin-clam.com> wrote:
>I think it will be difficult to find a low risk, 4%+ bank account. A
>better way (once all the credit card debt is paid off) may be to have
>that 4-month money in a three or perhaps six month CD which are
>currently paying above 4%. If a true emergency does arise, the CDs can
>be tapped to pay off such emergency charges.
Difficult but not impossible. Certainly more liquid than CDs. If you
go the CD route, then the best thing to do is have multiple CDs that
mature at different times, and keep rolling them over into new CDs
except when you need the cash.
== 6 of 15 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 2 2007 11:21 am
From: clams casino
** Frank ** wrote:
>>Can't help - Since I always pay all balance every month when due every
>>month, I don't have any problems. In fact, by paying them off every
>>month, I realize a good $500+ gain every year in rebates.
>>
>>
>>
>
>Wow, that is fantastic! Which card do you use and how much do you have to
>spend to get back $500?
>
>
>
>
Last year, I was able to get back 5% on all gas & groceries via a
Citibank / Amex card. That was unfortunately discontinued earlier
this year. About that time, Chase / Visa offered me $100 to set up a
new account with 3% off all gas, groceries & my cable bill. They will
pay an extra $50 if I wait until retrieving that cash refund at the
$250 level (if I recall that amount correctly - it might be at the $200
level) plus 1% on all other charges.
I was intending to discontinue another Visa card (2% on gas purchases),
but after a month of not renewing their card, they offered me $50 if I
would renew their card & charge $100. I charged just over $100, took
the cash and put that card away.
Discover pays 5% on gas during the 3nd quarter of the year, is currently
paying 5% on restaurant charges in the 4th quarter with 5% on all
grocery charges in December and has other 5% bonuses in the 1st & 2nd
quarters. They are currently advertising double mileage on the first
$3000 in travel & restaurant charges.
For all else, I tend to use a Bank of America Visa with Choice points,
getting 2% rebate on all other purchases payable as stays at Choice
hotels (plus an added bonus for charges at Choice hotels). Holiday Inn
recently paid an extra 2000 point bonus on my HI Priority club account
(essentially $20 ) for each of several stays I recently made & charged
to any Visa card.
All these are no annual fee cards.
Granted, I'm continually shuffling between 4-5 cards, but IMO, the
return of that much untaxed money is worth that minor inconvenience.
At 3%, $10k/yr in gas, groceries & cable charges can return about
$300. The 2% on all other charges plus the sign-on bonuses will easily
bring that above $500.
== 7 of 15 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 2 2007 11:32 am
From: Just A User
Scott in SoCal wrote:
> On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 12:39:22 -0500, Just A User
> <ken@up-yours-spammer.net> wrote:
>
>> I have 6 cards that I use on a
>> rotating basis for normal expenses. I pay the balance off every month.
>
> SIX cards?
>
> What's the advantage to rotating through 6 cards instead of just using
> 1 (or 2, or 3)?
Well sometime ago I read somewhere that having multiple open accounts is
better for rebuilding your credit. And the last time I checked my credit
report (creditreport.com) I was only using 3% of my available credit on
all my accounts. Actually I will probably cut it down somewhat in the
future. I started rebuilding my credit about 2 years ago, when my credit
score was about 500, now it's up to about 700. My goal is to get to
about 730 or 750 then cut down the number of cards.
== 8 of 15 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 2 2007 11:36 am
From: Just A User
Paul Pluzhnikov wrote:
> Just A User <ken@up-yours-spammer.net> writes:
>
>> I have 6 cards that I use on a rotating basis for normal expenses.
>
> Why do you "rotate" them?
> It's not like they will spoil if you don't use them, is it?
>
> Cheers,
No they won't spoil but by rotating through them that shows activity on
all my accounts. And as how I pay them off every month it's a good thing
for my credit report.
== 9 of 15 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 2 2007 11:42 am
From: Logan Shaw
clams casino wrote:
> I think it will be difficult to find a low risk, 4%+ bank account.
Not that difficult. Here's one:
http://www.capitalone.com/directbanking/hymm/index.php?linkid=WWW_Z_Z_Z_SP25_R3_05_G_SP25
That's a "high yield money market" account. There is no minimum balance
and no monthly fees, and you get a checkbook and an ATM card. However,
since it's a money market, there's a limit on transactions per month.
But it's just about perfect for a rainy day account: if you need money
for a big unexpected expense (like a repair on your home or whatever),
you can write a check and get effectively instant access to the money.
> A better way (once all the credit card debt is paid off) may be to have
> that 4-month money in a three or perhaps six month CD which are
> currently paying above 4%. If a true emergency does arise, the CDs can
> be tapped to pay off such emergency charges.
That can work great too. It really depends on whether the CD is paying a
higher rate and if so whether it's worth it to risk the penalty for early
withdrawal if/when you need the money. A lot of CDs don't have that big
a penalty, so it probably is pretty often worth it.
> Our preferred method for an emergency fund was to make extra payments
> against the mortgage where the (extra) equity could be made available
> in case of emergencies.
Did you get that type of loan in the US? You mentioned the IRS, making
me think you are in the US, but I thought that type of loan was only
available in other countries. If it is available in the US, that would
be great to know about since I want to get that type of loan.
- Logan
== 10 of 15 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 2 2007 11:30 am
From: Paul Pluzhnikov
Just A User <ken@up-yours-spammer.net> writes:
> Well sometime ago I read somewhere that having multiple open accounts
> is better for rebuilding your credit.
That is correct. But having multiple accounts with balance on them
is not. If your goal is to raise your credit score, you'll probably
be better off using one card primarily, and charging $5 once a
month on one of the other 5.
> And the last time I checked my
> credit report (creditreport.com) I was only using 3% of my available
> credit on all my accounts.
How many cards were reported with a balance on them?
If you "rotate" on a monthly basis, I am guessing at least 3 had
some substantial balance, which *lowers* your score.
BTW, wamu.com offers a credit card which allows you to see your
FICO score every month, answers "why is my score XXX?" question, and
has a FICO "simulator" which answers "what would happen to my FICO
score if I did..." question.
Cheers,
--
In order to understand recursion you must first understand recursion.
Remove /-nsp/ for email.
== 11 of 15 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 2 2007 11:47 am
From: "SpammersDie"
"Paul Pluzhnikov" <ppluzhnikov-nsp@charter.net> wrote in message
news:m3odd9udvc.fsf@somewhere.in.california.localhost...
> Just A User <ken@up-yours-spammer.net> writes:
>
>> I have 6 cards that I use on a rotating basis for normal expenses.
>
> Why do you "rotate" them?
> It's not like they will spoil if you don't use them, is it?
Only reason I can think of is to keep the utilization ratio from climbing
too high on any particular card (or more importantly, on whatever subset of
cards is reported to whatever credit bureau your next lender gets his
reports from.)
== 12 of 15 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 2 2007 12:14 pm
From: Logan Shaw
Scott in SoCal wrote:
> On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 08:06:37 -0500, Neil Jones
> <castellan2004-atnews@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> I have problem with credit cards. I flash them for gas, sometimes for
>> lunch, groceries etc. They are the small ticket items but are
>> accumulating on my balance. Now that I have accepted that I have a
>> problem, I want to really wean out of this reliance on credit card.
>
> Your problem is not credit cards per se. You problem is that you are
> not living within your means. In general, paying with a credit card is
> no worse than paying with cash (and sometimes better, since some
> credit cards pay cash rewards for using them). The problems only come
> in when you don't pay your balance in full each month.
I both agree and disagree.
I agree because the fundamental problem is in fact spending more than
you earn. Spending less than you earn is the goal.
I disagree because credit cards require somewhat more self-discipline
(or maybe just good habits) than cash requires in order to achieve
the goal. With credit cards, tracking is more difficult (not impossible)
because the amount you've spent is an invisible quantity. With cash,
you either have cash in your hand or you don't. Cash creates a barrier
that stops you from going into the red; with credit cards, there is a
line that you cross but it's invisible and unless you do the math, you
don't know when you've crossed it.
Granted, you shouldn't be flirting with that line in the first place.
But let's take it as a given that flirting with that line is exactly
what's going on, because otherwise the original poster wouldn't be
asking this question.
So, while credit cards are not the problem, getting rid of credit cards
may be one step on the path to solving the problem. The ultimate plan
should be to get to a point where you *can* carry credit cards and still
not spend too much. That's partly because credit cards are convenient,
but mainly because reaching that point is an indicator that you've really
solved the root problem, which is control over yourself and control over
your finances across the board.
> I had problems similar to yours many years ago, but my solution was to
> stop spending more money than I earned. I still have all my credit
> cards, BTW - I never cut them up or froze them in a block of ice or
> any of that crap. Those are crutches for people who are too
> weak-willed to stick to a spending plan. The real way to solve your
> problem is to develop some fiscal discipline.
I agree they're crutches, but if one is in this situation, they should
do one of the following:
(A) really, truly decide they are going to do it right and control
their spending for real, make the commitment, and keep the credit
cards; or
(B) decide they're going to do it in steps, ditch the credit cards
for now as the first step, and then be serious about getting
control overall by taking further steps later (but not too much
later).
In particular, it would not be a good idea to do:
(C) not be committed to completely reforming, but keep the credit cards
anyway because you think it's more impressive to do (A) than it is
to do (B).
I guess my point is, decide what you're willing to commit to, and then
make a plan that works based on that. I'll say that you will be
happiest if you decide to commit to controlling spending in general
so that credit cards aren't a temptation. But be realistic, and if
you're not willing to commit to that, make a plan that involves cutting
up the credit cards or something.
- Logan
== 13 of 15 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 2 2007 12:19 pm
From: Anthony Matonak
Scott in SoCal wrote:
> What's the advantage to rotating through 6 cards instead of just using
> 1 (or 2, or 3)?
The advantage is that while the credit card companies might not raise
your credit limit on any one card, there are always more cards you
can get. You can also pay off one card with another. Once you've
established that you regularly pay off your card at the end of the
month, they'll raise your limit.
Anthony
== 14 of 15 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 2 2007 12:41 pm
From: clams casino
Logan Shaw wrote:
> clams casino wrote:
>
>> I think it will be difficult to find a low risk, 4%+ bank account.
>
>
> Not that difficult. Here's one:
>
> http://www.capitalone.com/directbanking/hymm/index.php?linkid=WWW_Z_Z_Z_SP25_R3_05_G_SP25
>
>
> That's a "high yield money market" account. There is no minimum balance
> and no monthly fees, and you get a checkbook and an ATM card. However,
> since it's a money market, there's a limit on transactions per month.
> But it's just about perfect for a rainy day account: if you need money
> for a big unexpected expense (like a repair on your home or whatever),
> you can write a check and get effectively instant access to the money.
>
>> A better way (once all the credit card debt is paid off) may be to
>> have that 4-month money in a three or perhaps six month CD which are
>> currently paying above 4%. If a true emergency does arise, the CDs
>> can be tapped to pay off such emergency charges.
>
>
> That can work great too. It really depends on whether the CD is paying a
> higher rate and if so whether it's worth it to risk the penalty for early
> withdrawal if/when you need the money. A lot of CDs don't have that big
> a penalty, so it probably is pretty often worth it.
>
>> Our preferred method for an emergency fund was to make extra
>> payments against the mortgage where the (extra) equity could be
>> made available in case of emergencies.
>
>
> Did you get that type of loan in the US? You mentioned the IRS, making
> me think you are in the US, but I thought that type of loan was only
> available in other countries. If it is available in the US, that would
> be great to know about since I want to get that type of loan.
>
> - Logan
It was simply a home equity loan (US) where the loan interest is
typically deductible vs. conventional loans which are typically not
interest deductible.
I'm confident most every mortgage lender has a home equity loan option,
assuming one has enough equity..
== 15 of 15 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 2 2007 1:00 pm
From: pc
Logan Shaw wrote:
> Scott in SoCal wrote:
>> On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 08:06:37 -0500, Neil Jones
>> <castellan2004-atnews@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I have problem with credit cards. I flash them for gas, sometimes
>>> for lunch, groceries etc. They are the small ticket items but are
>>> accumulating on my balance. Now that I have accepted that I have a
>>> problem, I want to really wean out of this reliance on credit card.
>>
>> Your problem is not credit cards per se. You problem is that you are
>> not living within your means. In general, paying with a credit card is
>> no worse than paying with cash (and sometimes better, since some
>> credit cards pay cash rewards for using them). The problems only come
>> in when you don't pay your balance in full each month.
>
> I both agree and disagree.
>
> I agree because the fundamental problem is in fact spending more than
> you earn. Spending less than you earn is the goal.
>
> I disagree because credit cards require somewhat more self-discipline
> (or maybe just good habits) than cash requires in order to achieve
> the goal. With credit cards, tracking is more difficult (not impossible)
> because the amount you've spent is an invisible quantity. With cash,
> you either have cash in your hand or you don't. Cash creates a barrier
> that stops you from going into the red; with credit cards, there is a
> line that you cross but it's invisible and unless you do the math, you
> don't know when you've crossed it.
Things have changed so much in the past 10, let alone 20, years. It
makes it hard for a lot of people to understand what cold, hard cash
really means.
My paycheck is automatically deposited [my company's rule]. Health,
life and auto insurance is deducted automatically by my employer.
I pay all the bills online. Most are set up on auto-pay.
In the past three years, I've written approximately two checks per year.
I've been to my bank only once in the past year [DH still gets paid by
paper check so he goes to the bank].
I've been considering opting into Ebills that my bank offers. But, I'm
not quite there yet. I like the hard copy reminder of the expense I've
incurred.
The 'cause and effect' experience of depositing a check, taking out
cash, balancing a checkbook is pretty much gone for many. This can make
things difficult for people.
..PC
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Christ in Islam
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/06c4482e668dd598?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 2 2007 11:01 am
From: "231" <231@alok.com>
AllEmailDeletedImmediately <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:
> here's what i know:
Nope.
> my God has a Son name Christ Jesus.
You dont know that.
> islam's god does not.
Its the same god, stupid.
> therefore they cannot be the same god
Or it is the same god and its devotees cant get the basics right.
> and they are not, no matter how hard islam tries to horn in and claim it as so.
Just as true of the stupid xtians.
> allah IS NOT the same god as the God of the hebrew and christians.
Easy to claim. Hell of a lot harder to actually substantiate that claim.
In spades that there is any 'god' at all.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Free Plant Seeds to Save Bees
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/069d01cc43edcd93?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 2 2007 11:25 am
From: "TheBestFreebies.com"
Receive a free packet of wildflower seeds. Just follow the planting
instructions and soon you will have a pretty patch of flowers where
bees can live and thrive.
Together, we can fight Colony Collapse Disorder for The Greater Good.
--
The Best Freebies
All free products are available at http://TheBestFreebies.com/ and
are intended for families, businesses, and individuals residing in
the United States, Canada, and the United Kingdom.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: more laptop selection help
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/614f763badc82c6b?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 2 2007 11:13 am
From: Paul Pluzhnikov
gheston@hiwaay.net (Gary Heston) writes:
> AllEmailDeletedImmediately <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>i'm not sure what the 32 and the 64 mean.
>
> How many bits form an instruction.
That is incorrect: for x86_64 Intel architecture, the shortest
instruction takes just 1 byte (e.g. '0xC3' == RET) and the longest
is at least 12 bytes long). The 64-bit refers to the size of
integer/address registers in the CPU, as the wikipedia page you
referenced correctly states.
> 32-bit code will run on 64-bit architectures, although not always very well.
Do you have an example of a 32-bit application running "not very well"
on an x86_64 CPU? (My experience has been that they run *better*
than their 64-bit coutnerparts, until the task becomes too large
for 32-bit application to handle.)
Cheers,
--
In order to understand recursion you must first understand recursion.
Remove /-nsp/ for email.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 2 2007 12:59 pm
From: Logan Shaw
AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
> if so, would there be an advantage to getting the turion 64x2 in terms of
> future software/hardware? i'm not sure what the 32 and the 64 mean.
> would software written for the 32 run on the 64? vice versa? is software
> most likely to be written for one over the other in the future? does it
> even affect the software? :) i'm thinking it might because i know there
> are terms like 32 bit platform and 64 bit platform and i think this might be
> what it refers to, but, i'm a real dummy when it comes to hardware :(
OK, here's my crack at an explanation. You know when you're filling out
a paper form and there is a blank for your last name, and it's (say) 15
letters long? For some people the blank isn't long enough and they have
to write only the first 15 letters of their last name. This can lead to
problems.
In computers, everything is basically ultimately a number, and the easiest
way to build a computer is to pick some standard size of number (i.e. a
maximum number of digits, just like the maximum number of letters in the
blank on the form) and use that for almost everything. That way everything
is standardized and a whole bunch of stuff can all work the same way. And
that makes it easier to build the hardware mainly, but also the software.
A "bit" is in fact a digit. In fact, it's a contraction of the words
"binary" and "digit". So 64-bit bits means 64 digits. Specifically,
it means *up to* 64 digits. A "64-bit" computer uses (up to) 64-digit
binary numbers for most things. A "32-bit" computer uses 32-digit binary
numbers, so there are certain things it can't do as easily.
To make things a little more complicated, computer engineers wanted to give
people the option of not wasting space, so they allow you to use smaller
numbers if that's all that's needed. That means a 32-bit computer can use
32-bit numbers, but it also can use 16-bit numbers and 8-bit ones. And a
64-bit computer can use 64-bit, 32-bit, 16-bit, and 8-bit numbers.
And then it gets more complicated than that: computers not only have the
ability to deal with numbers, but they have "instructions" as well. An
instruction is just a code where the computer knows that a certain number
means to do a certain thing. One number means "reset the whole computer",
another number means "add some numbers together", another means "copy
some data from here to there", and so on. Software is ultimately built
by stringing together millions of the right numbers, i.e. instructions,
so that the computer knows what to do, one step after another. Different
types of computers have different instructions, and a particular type of
computer's instructions are collectively known as an "instruction set".
And when you build a piece of software, you've got to build it out of
the right kind of instructions for the target computer to use. The
software has to match the instruction set on the computer that's going
to run it.
32-bit computers have different instructions sets than 64-bit computers.
With a 32-bit computer, the instructions are written as 32-bit numbers.
With a 64-bit computer, the instructions are written as 64-bit numbers.
That's the most important difference right there.
However, the manufacturers aren't stupid. They don't want their processor
to completely flop in the marketplace, so they make it so the 64-bit
machines can understand either 64-bit or 32-bit instructions. And most
of the people who make software assemble their software out of 32-bit
instructions because that will work on either type of computer. Eventually,
there will come a day when enough people have 64-bit computers that people
will start building their software out of 64-bit instructions, but that
doesn't happen very much right now because software people are also not
stupid and don't want their software to flop in the marketplace. (Some
software people offer both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of the same software,
but very few offer only 64-bit.)
So, bottom line is, the 64-bit computer can do everything that the 32-bit
computer can do, but it can also do some "64-bit type things" that a 32-bit
computer can't do. But since not everybody has 64-bit computers, 99.9%
of the software out there doesn't take advantage of "64-bit type things".
So for the next several years, you don't *need* a 64-bit computer.
Of course, as somebody else said, you almost can't buy anything *but*
a 64-bit computer these days, so it doesn't really matter. But now
you know.
- Logan
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Canned Mackerel
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f049abff31c44b3a?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 2 2007 12:20 pm
From: Logan Shaw
PaPaPeng wrote:
> This is neat. I just bought a 115gm can of Mackerel, the flat can with
> a pull tab to open it. Included inside is a plastic fork so that I
> can eat from the can without further ado. Its a really brilliant
> idea.
How does the plastic fork not end up with fish juices and oil all over it?
Is there a barrier between it and the fish? Or do you just have to wipe
off the fork before using it?
- Logan
==============================================================================
TOPIC: How much do you really save turning down the thermostat?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e6b14ffb2d998b9e?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 2 2007 12:27 pm
From: Joe
I'm struggling with the idea between keeping my thermostat at 66
degrees which I need to wear at least two layers of clothing around my
house to feel comfortable and 69 degrees with which I can walk around
comfortably in a t-shirt. Has any actually calculated actual savings
of turning down the thermostat? I've read all the articles about how
you can save 10% per each degree you turn down your thermostat but I
would like to see if anyone actually have some real numbers to back me
up. I'm not sure it's worth $30 a month to live like this.
== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 2 2007 12:42 pm
From: Vic Smith
On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 12:27:39 -0800 (PST), Joe <joe5345@gmail.com>
wrote:
>I'm struggling with the idea between keeping my thermostat at 66
>degrees which I need to wear at least two layers of clothing around my
>house to feel comfortable and 69 degrees with which I can walk around
>comfortably in a t-shirt. Has any actually calculated actual savings
>of turning down the thermostat? I've read all the articles about how
>you can save 10% per each degree you turn down your thermostat but I
>would like to see if anyone actually have some real numbers to back me
>up. I'm not sure it's worth $30 a month to live like this.
The problem is dealing with others in the house. I gave up trying to
convince them the savings was worth it.
The best I could get out of them was 69 degrees - and they're still
bitching.
--Vic
== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 2 2007 1:00 pm
From: clams casino
Joe wrote:
>I'm struggling with the idea between keeping my thermostat at 66
>degrees which I need to wear at least two layers of clothing around my
>house to feel comfortable and 69 degrees with which I can walk around
>comfortably in a t-shirt. Has any actually calculated actual savings
>of turning down the thermostat? I've read all the articles about how
>you can save 10% per each degree you turn down your thermostat but I
>would like to see if anyone actually have some real numbers to back me
>up. I'm not sure it's worth $30 a month to live like this.
>
>
No hard figures, but logically there is a savings for any reduced temp
level (except with heat pumps).
I suggest using programmable thermostats with several daily time
adjustments. They should pay for themselves within months.
For a start, we have up and down zones / thermostats. During the day, we
keep the upstairs at 62 (doors shut so the heat from downstairs stays
primarily downstairs), with the heat increased to 68 early evening and
down to 66 about midnight.
Downstairs, we set the thermostat at 62 at 10pm & step up the temp to 66
about 4am, 67 at 8am, 68 and 3pm and 69 at 5pm. When we leave the
house, we drop the thermostat a few degrees and usually reset as we
enter. The thermostat is near the door we use most, so it's no bother
to hit the buttons up / down as desired. During the morning, 66-67 can
be comfortable, but there is always a chill about the time the sun drops
so the change helps keep the comfort..
This will not work with a heat pump (secondary heating will kill the
savings), but should work with gas & oil.
== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 2 2007 1:04 pm
From: Jeff
Joe wrote:
> I'm struggling with the idea between keeping my thermostat at 66
> degrees which I need to wear at least two layers of clothing around my
> house to feel comfortable and 69 degrees with which I can walk around
> comfortably in a t-shirt. Has any actually calculated actual savings
> of turning down the thermostat?
Look up the degree days of heating for your locale for each month.
If you have 600 degree days in November, that would be 20 "degree
day", so you would save roughly 3/20 or 15%.
Jeff
I've read all the articles about how
> you can save 10% per each degree you turn down your thermostat but I
> would like to see if anyone actually have some real numbers to back me
> up. I'm not sure it's worth $30 a month to live like this.
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