Frugal Living: 24 new messages in 10 topics

Sunday, January 27, 2008

24 new messages in 10 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What to do if a power line comes down near you?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/dfe1b4fdedc09600?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 27 2008 12:53 am
From: ultimauw@hotmail.com

I was wondering what one should do if they find themselves standing on
ground that has become electrified due to a downed power line. Since
the difference between one spot of ground could easily be hundereds or
thousands of volts more than a spot just a foot away, this difference
could be very leathal due to the fact that the current travels up one
leg, through the heart and down the other leg. With this in mind,
would hopping out of the area with both feet together (like you are in
a potato sack race) be safest thing to do when leaving since you will
be mimimising the voltage difference between your feet?

== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 27 2008 2:12 am
From: nospam@noway.net (Ralph)

<ultimauw@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I was wondering what one should do if they find themselves standing on
> ground that has become electrified due to a downed power line. Since
> the difference between one spot of ground could easily be hundereds or
> thousands of volts more than a spot just a foot away, this difference
> could be very leathal due to the fact that the current travels up one
> leg, through the heart and down the other leg. With this in mind,
> would hopping out of the area with both feet together (like you are in
> a potato sack race) be safest thing to do when leaving since you will
> be mimimising the voltage difference between your feet?

The ground will likely be wet since power lines usually come down in a
storm. Hopping around on wet pavement could cause you to fall, making
the situation much worse.

I'd think a slow run while picking your feet up would be much safer.
Plus, if you were shocked, by moving quickly it would possibly shorten
the duration of the shock and possibly reducing the injury. I wouldn't
want to stand there thinking about it either, because live wires tend to
jump around unpredictably.

== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 27 2008 2:25 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Ralph <nospam@noway.net> wrote:
> <ultimauw@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I was wondering what one should do if they find themselves standing
>> on ground that has become electrified due to a downed power line.
>> Since the difference between one spot of ground could easily be
>> hundereds or thousands of volts more than a spot just a foot away,
>> this difference could be very leathal due to the fact that the
>> current travels up one leg, through the heart and down the other
>> leg. With this in mind, would hopping out of the area with both feet
>> together (like you are in a potato sack race) be safest thing to do
>> when leaving since you will be mimimising the voltage difference
>> between your feet?

> The ground will likely be wet since power lines usually come down in a storm.

Nope, the other common way for the power line to come down is in high
winds or some fool driving into a power pole and bringing that down.

> Hopping around on wet pavement could cause
> you to fall, making the situation much worse.

Yes, you could fall on the power line.

> I'd think a slow run while picking your feet up would be much safer.

You dont need to play silly buggers at all, there wont be any gradient
in the ground that will cause you any problem even with bare feet.

> Plus, if you were shocked, by moving quickly it would possibly
> shorten the duration of the shock and possibly reducing the injury.

Mindlessly silly.

> I wouldn't want to stand there thinking about it either,
> because live wires tend to jump around unpredictably.

No they dont. They might be blown around if its high winds that brought
the power line down, but they dont jump around spontaneously.

== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 27 2008 3:35 am
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <1ibcqie.3spj5y1tivon4N%nospam@noway.net>,
nospam@noway.net (Ralph) wrote:

> <ultimauw@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I was wondering what one should do if they find themselves standing on
> > ground that has become electrified due to a downed power line. Since
> > the difference between one spot of ground could easily be hundereds or
> > thousands of volts more than a spot just a foot away, this difference
> > could be very leathal due to the fact that the current travels up one
> > leg, through the heart and down the other leg. With this in mind,
> > would hopping out of the area with both feet together (like you are in
> > a potato sack race) be safest thing to do when leaving since you will
> > be mimimising the voltage difference between your feet?
>
> The ground will likely be wet since power lines usually come down in a
> storm. Hopping around on wet pavement could cause you to fall, making
> the situation much worse.
>
> I'd think a slow run while picking your feet up would be much safer.
> Plus, if you were shocked, by moving quickly it would possibly shorten
> the duration of the shock and possibly reducing the injury. I wouldn't
> want to stand there thinking about it either, because live wires tend to
> jump around unpredictably.

I googled for "power line down" and the first hit was very informative.
Go to

http://www.austinenergy.com/Customer%20Care/Power%20Outages/fallenPowerli
ne.htm

== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 27 2008 5:30 am
From: "When Reagan died, a demon crawled out of the hole in his head"

On Jan 27, 12:53 am, ultim...@hotmail.com wrote:
> I was wondering what one should do if they find themselves standing on
> ground that has become electrified due to a downed power line. Since
> the difference between one spot of ground could easily be hundereds or
> thousands of volts more than a spot just a foot away, this difference
> could be very leathal due to the fact that the current travels up one
> leg, through the heart and down the other leg. With this in mind,
> would hopping out of the area with both feet together (like you are in
> a potato sack race) be safest thing to do when leaving since you will
> be mimimising the voltage difference between your feet?

Since this is a alt.politics, I think it depends on your party
affiliation. If you're Republican, wait for the Terror Alert to go to
red, then duct tape yourself inside some plastic tarp and wait for the
the alert to go to orange or green.

If you're a democrat, blame Bush, Rove and Halliburton until you're
red in the face or until an unpopular politician pretends to call for
Impeachment. Then you can just go back to your business as if nothing
happened.

== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 27 2008 9:00 am
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 00:53:07 -0800 (PST), ultimauw@hotmail.com wrote:

>I was wondering what one should do if they find themselves standing on
>ground that has become electrified due to a downed power line. Since
>the difference between one spot of ground could easily be hundereds or
>thousands of volts more than a spot just a foot away, this difference
>could be very leathal due to the fact that the current travels up one
>leg, through the heart and down the other leg. With this in mind,
>would hopping out of the area with both feet together (like you are in
>a potato sack race) be safest thing to do when leaving since you will
>be mimimising the voltage difference between your feet?

Depends <checks newsgroups involved>:

Are you democrat, republican, libertarian, socialist, frugal, a kid,
or a troll?

If you are a democrat, you stand in the same spot and yell loudly for
immediate universal health care.

If you are a republican, you call the owner of the power company, have
the entire city de-energized for five minutes, and walk off scot free
while the rest of the city suffers in the dark.

If you are a libertarian, you don't get into the problem in the first
place, because power lines aren't covered by the constitution, and you
avoid things not covered by the constitution.

If you are a socialist, you contact the union boss and file a
grievance.

If you are frugal, you figure out a way to use the downed powerline to
somehow save toilet paper.

If you are a kid, you mimic the standard cartoon role model, by
immediately jumping one foot off the ground, churning your legs so
fast that they are a blur, and your feet never touch the ground for a
few hundred feet. When you do land, you wipe your brow in relief, and
get hit by a falling ACME anvil.

If you are a troll, you pee on the downed line while the rest of us
watch.

I think that covers the basics. Next similarly relevant question for
frugal-living and politics - What do you do when you are posting to
usenet from your hot air balloon and a Boing 777 suddenly loses engine
power and heads straight for your balloon?

== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 27 2008 9:43 am
From: wbyeats@ireland.com

On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 12:00:15 -0500, hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:

>I think that covers the basics. Next similarly relevant question for
>frugal-living and politics - What do you do when you are posting to
>usenet from your hot air balloon and a Boeing 777 suddenly loses engine
>power and heads straight for your balloon?

Find a politician and quickly refill the balloon with hot air?
Fart in the jet's general direction?

WB Yeats

== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 27 2008 10:57 am
From: nospam@noway.net (Ralph)

Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ralph <nospam@noway.net> wrote:
> > <ultimauw@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I was wondering what one should do if they find themselves standing
> >> on ground that has become electrified due to a downed power line.
> >> Since the difference between one spot of ground could easily be
> >> hundereds or thousands of volts more than a spot just a foot away,
> >> this difference could be very leathal due to the fact that the
> >> current travels up one leg, through the heart and down the other
> >> leg. With this in mind, would hopping out of the area with both feet
> >> together (like you are in a potato sack race) be safest thing to do
> >> when leaving since you will be mimimising the voltage difference
> >> between your feet?
>
> > The ground will likely be wet since power lines usually come down in a
> > storm.
>
> Nope, the other common way for the power line to come down is in high
> winds or some fool driving into a power pole and bringing that down.

Then how come almost all power outages seem to happen during a storm?

> > Hopping around on wet pavement could cause
> > you to fall, making the situation much worse.
>
> Yes, you could fall on the power line.
>
> > I'd think a slow run while picking your feet up would be much safer.
>
> You dont need to play silly buggers at all, there wont be any gradient
> in the ground that will cause you any problem even with bare feet.
>
> > Plus, if you were shocked, by moving quickly it would possibly
> > shorten the duration of the shock and possibly reducing the injury.
>
> Mindlessly silly.

It is possible to get shocked by high voltage power lines and survive.

Here's a video of a hang glider who landed on one of those huge power
line towers and survived. The last thing this video said is he suffered
"serious electric shock":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dItfuEPo_s

Here's someone on an electric pole who seems to get shocked a couple
times and survives, until the finale:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_k-_FsDu55U

This guy lit up like a light bulb and survived:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8tprAIQFCE

> > I wouldn't want to stand there thinking about it either,
> > because live wires tend to jump around unpredictably.
>
> No they dont. They might be blown around if its high winds that brought
> the power line down, but they dont jump around spontaneously.

== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 27 2008 10:57 am
From: nospam@noway.net (Ralph)

Shawn Hirn <srhi@comcast.net> wrote:

> In article <1ibcqie.3spj5y1tivon4N%nospam@noway.net>,
> nospam@noway.net (Ralph) wrote:
>
> > <ultimauw@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I was wondering what one should do if they find themselves standing on
> > > ground that has become electrified due to a downed power line. Since
> > > the difference between one spot of ground could easily be hundereds or
> > > thousands of volts more than a spot just a foot away, this difference
> > > could be very leathal due to the fact that the current travels up one
> > > leg, through the heart and down the other leg. With this in mind,
> > > would hopping out of the area with both feet together (like you are in
> > > a potato sack race) be safest thing to do when leaving since you will
> > > be mimimising the voltage difference between your feet?
> >
> > The ground will likely be wet since power lines usually come down in a
> > storm. Hopping around on wet pavement could cause you to fall, making
> > the situation much worse.
> >
> > I'd think a slow run while picking your feet up would be much safer.
> > Plus, if you were shocked, by moving quickly it would possibly shorten
> > the duration of the shock and possibly reducing the injury. I wouldn't
> > want to stand there thinking about it either, because live wires tend to
> > jump around unpredictably.
>
> I googled for "power line down" and the first hit was very informative.
> Go to
>
> http://www.austinenergy.com/Customer%20Care/Power%20Outages/fallenPowerli
> ne.htm

I guess I was wrong about hopping lol

== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 27 2008 11:37 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Ralph <nospam@noway.net> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Ralph <nospam@noway.net> wrote
>>> <ultimauw@hotmail.com> wrote

>>>> I was wondering what one should do if they find themselves standing
>>>> on ground that has become electrified due to a downed power line.
>>>> Since the difference between one spot of ground could easily be
>>>> hundereds or thousands of volts more than a spot just a foot away,
>>>> this difference could be very leathal due to the fact that the
>>>> current travels up one leg, through the heart and down the other
>>>> leg. With this in mind, would hopping out of the area with both
>>>> feet together (like you are in a potato sack race) be safest thing
>>>> to do when leaving since you will be mimimising the voltage
>>>> difference between your feet?

>>> The ground will likely be wet since power lines usually come down in a storm.

>> Nope, the other common way for the power line to come down is in high
>> winds or some fool driving into a power pole and bringing that down.

> Then how come almost all power outages seem to happen during a storm?

You've just plucked that claim out of your arse.

>>> Hopping around on wet pavement could cause
>>> you to fall, making the situation much worse.

>> Yes, you could fall on the power line.

>>> I'd think a slow run while picking your feet up would be much safer.

>> You dont need to play silly buggers at all, there wont be any gradient
>> in the ground that will cause you any problem even with bare feet.

>>> Plus, if you were shocked, by moving quickly it would possibly
>>> shorten the duration of the shock and possibly reducing the injury.

>> Mindlessly silly.

> It is possible to get shocked by high voltage power lines and survive.

Yes, and its possible get struck by lightning and survive too. So what ?

> Here's a video of a hang glider who landed on one
> of those huge power line towers and survived.

And most maintenance on high voltage lines is done with the lines live too.

Not relevant to what is being discussed.

> The last thing this video said is he suffered "serious electric shock":
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dItfuEPo_s

Pity about those that do live maintenance on high voltage lines that dont.

> Here's someone on an electric pole who seems to get
> shocked a couple times and survives, until the finale:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_k-_FsDu55U

Not relevant to what is being discussed.

> This guy lit up like a light bulb and survived:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8tprAIQFCE

Not relevant to what is being discussed.

>>> I wouldn't want to stand there thinking about it either,
>>> because live wires tend to jump around unpredictably.

>> No they dont. They might be blown around if its high winds that
>> brought the power line down, but they dont jump around spontaneously.

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Date: Sun, Jan 27 2008 3:42 am
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>
>
>

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Find the value of your house..
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/56458ea67da69c4f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 27 2008 9:22 am
From: "John Lee"

Index the websites and search engines to help you to find the value of your
house. You don't need to contact the
realtor and appraiser . To know the value of your house just a click!

Best Regards
Chris ZiiFa
Address:
e-mail:
web-site: http://www.geocities.com/zifaafena/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Driving a Lemon Car?! Free Lemon Law Guide...
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7fccf9dda6752f89?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 27 2008 9:36 am
From: "Simon Yorker"

I have collect many free Lemon Law information -- List of free information
on the net. To teach you what is a lemon law. What is the lemon law in your
state. How to handel a lemon car.......
Best Regards

John Clay
E-mail:XXX!!@hotmail.com
web-site: http://www.geocities.com/lawsamma/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why we don't need Mexicans
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a33d78e3d758123f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 27 2008 9:37 am
From: "RD (The Sandman)"

Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> wrote in
news:602kjmF1p3kbgU1@mid.individual.net:

> "RD (The Sandman)" <rdsandman(spamlock)@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> wrote in
>>news:6016g1F1odselU1@mid.individual.net:
>
>>> If the president vetoes everything that they try, then they don't
>>> "control" it until they either have a few more senators, or until
>>> they control the white house.
>>
>>If they can't override a presidential veto, then, apparently, they
>>aren't being bi-partisan enough to gain votes from the other side of
>>the aisle.
>
> If the other party isn't interested in bipartisanship, then the only
> way to get bipartisanship is to surrender.

Why is it that with both parties, bipartisanship is defined as "my way"?
That holds to both sides of the aisle. Neither side has the high ground
in that argumet.

> Have you considered bipartisanship with Osama?

Which house is he in? Representatives or the Senate? ;)

> It takes two to tango. Until the public told them to f... off, the
> Republicans had no interest in dancing.

As noted above, neither side has the high moral ground on bipartisanship.
Both sides look at it as "I lead or we don't dance".

--
RD (The Sandman)

War is absolute hell.....but to give in
to terrorism is much, much worse

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 27 2008 9:45 am
From: nospam@nospam.com (Paul Ciszek)

In article <Xns9A326C06D7D9BSandman@216.196.97.136>,
The Sandman)" <rdsandman(spamlock <rdsandman(spamlock)@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>As noted above, neither side has the high moral ground on bipartisanship.
>Both sides look at it as "I lead or we don't dance".

The American people voted more Democrats than Republicans into the house,
so the Democrats lead. That's how democracy works.

--
Please reply to: | "One of the hardest parts of my job is to
pciszek at panix dot com | connect Iraq to the War on Terror."
Autoreply is disabled | -- G. W. Bush, 9/7/2006

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 27 2008 9:57 am
From: "RD (The Sandman)"

nospam@nospam.com (Paul Ciszek) wrote in
news:fnig0e$jdt$1@reader2.panix.com:

>
> In article <Xns9A326C06D7D9BSandman@216.196.97.136>,
> The Sandman)" <rdsandman(spamlock <rdsandman(spamlock)@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>>
>>As noted above, neither side has the high moral ground on
>>bipartisanship. Both sides look at it as "I lead or we don't dance".
>
> The American people voted more Democrats than Republicans into the
> house, so the Democrats lead. That's how democracy works.

The discussion was a presidential veto. That's also how democracy works.
In order to override that veto (unless you have 2/3s of both houses)
bipartisanship is required. Neither side is very good at that.

--
RD (The Sandman)

War is absolute hell.....but to give in
to terrorism is much, much worse

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 27 2008 10:10 am
From: Greg Goss

"RD (The Sandman)" <rdsandman(spamlock)@comcast.net> wrote:

>The discussion was a presidential veto. That's also how democracy works.
>In order to override that veto (unless you have 2/3s of both houses)
>bipartisanship is required. Neither side is very good at that.

I misunderstood RD's point when I posted my sarcastic reply earlier.
The Republicans are better at internal discipline to keep their side
of the non-bi-partisan divide intact. The Democrats are often a
collection of unherdable cats

Look at the current idea of a law to exempt telecoms from any lawsuits
for violating privacy laws. A senator often touted as a possible
Hillary VP is one of the people rumoured to be about to vote against
enforcing laws when rich companies help the government spy on the
general public.

While this law seems to be against the stereotyped spirit of BOTH
parties, bailing out corporate cronies of the Bush presidency seems to
be especially surprising.
--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 27 2008 11:14 am
From: "RSweeney"

"Greg Goss" <gossg@gossg.org> wrote in message
news:603vpdF1mf7peU1@mid.individual.net...

> The Republicans are better at internal discipline to keep their side
> of the non-bi-partisan divide intact. The Democrats are often a
> collection of unherdable cats

Given the number of RINO's and pork barrel merchants in the party, I'd say
the Republicans are fractured too.

It was the pork barrel merchants and their Republican enablers who lost the
last election for the Republicans.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Tempur-pedic/ Tempurpedic question
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b1829439e874a71f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 27 2008 10:22 am
From: ayeshahill@gmail.com

Tempur-pedic/ Tempurpedic question

We are thinking of buying of Tempur pedic type matteress.

If anyone in this group is using one...
Would you pls let us know your thoughts.

Tempur pedic is quite expensive. We have heard that many companies
now have very similar products in the marketplace and at more
reasonable prices.
Can anyone who has experience / is knowledgeable about this, pls let
us know.

What brand is the best value for money ?

We need a Queen and live in the San Francisco Bay Area, CA.
Any particular outlet/store that has the best deals ?

Any thoughts/ suggestions/ ideas /pointers would be highly
appreciated.

Thanks,
Ayesha Hill

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 27 2008 12:11 pm
From:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<ayeshahill@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4ff809c6-fbce-40a0-94f2-0437e6cf4fce@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> Tempur-pedic/ Tempurpedic question
>
> We are thinking of buying of Tempur pedic type matteress.
>
> If anyone in this group is using one...
> Would you pls let us know your thoughts.
>
> Tempur pedic is quite expensive. We have heard that many companies
> now have very similar products in the marketplace and at more
> reasonable prices.
> Can anyone who has experience / is knowledgeable about this, pls let
> us know.
>
> What brand is the best value for money ?
>
> We need a Queen and live in the San Francisco Bay Area, CA.
> Any particular outlet/store that has the best deals ?
>
> Any thoughts/ suggestions/ ideas /pointers would be highly
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Ayesha Hill

We already had a pillowtop mattress we loved, but a year ago DH bought a 3'
thick king-size tempurpedic topper for the bed. It comes with its own cover
and fits under a pillowtop mattress pad. I thought the bed was great before,
but with the topper it's complete bliss. I'm a night person so going to bed
at a reasonable hour has always been tough, but this new bed setup makes me
want to go to bed early!

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Sunday, January 27, 2008

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