Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 18 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: do business online ,buy product send web
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cf9d5233722736a8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 4 2008 1:00 am
From: yhnetstore18@gmail.com

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TOPIC: lady's shoes & dress
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cef604b9049bf2c1?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 4 2008 1:24 am
From: girldress@gmail.com

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TOPIC: School Loans Consolidation
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/71fcd2e657cbac99?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 4 2008 1:41 am
From: stvgw13j5hcqnx9mkno7@gmail.com

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TOPIC: 1,001 Deals And Steals: A Guide To Online Classifieds
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b1c912397b568862?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 4 2008 3:19 am
From: bs866806@163.com

Some naysayers way back in the 1990s predicted that online shopping
wouldn't last. Sure, and they said television was a passing fad, too!
As we all know, just the opposite has occurred. There's a television
in every household, and more than likely, the homeowner bought their
television online-along with his books, music CDs, clothes, and maybe
even his home.

Internet shopping is bigger than ever. You can find anything and
everything for sale online. Many times, you can find it cheaper online
than anywhere else. Internet shopping offers so much more than a
discounted price tag, though.

Imagine a shopping mall where there are no lines, where there are no
jammed parking garages, and no pushy sales clerks. This is no land of
make believe. It is the Internet, where you can discover unprecedented
selection, convenience, and opportunities. Online shopping gives you
the luxury of browsing hundreds of stores from your living room, while
saving on time and frustration. It provides you the chance to compare
prices to your heart's delight on a near limitless selection of brands
and models.

For even more benefits, try your hand at classifieds and auction Web
sites. These sites are like yard sales and flea markets rolled into
one. Unlike retail shopping sites, they offer:

Access to super secondary markets. Take your pick of secondhand or
brand-new wholesale goods at steeply discounted prices. The vendors at
classifieds sites can get away with it because they aren't paying high
rent for a storefront or a warehouse. And in many cases, you're not
paying taxes.

Tools to locate unique and rare collectibles. Imagine a classifieds
site to be like a sunken pirate boat, laden with cultural artifacts,
hard-to-find heirlooms, and priceless antiques. The Internet is your
deep-sea vessel, sonar, and oxygen tank all in one.

Reach beyond your neighborhood. Search through the inventory of a
vendor from your home town, or if you don't find what you're looking
for there, try that fellow in California, Texas or Canada for that
matter.

Close relationships with vendors. You deal with real people-not big,
impersonal corporations-when you buy on classifieds sites. They can
provide more details about the product, which you can then use to
bargain for a reasonable price.

Despite this bounty of benefits, you might still be hesitant to dive
into Internet shopping. Don't be embarrassed. You have good reason to
take your time and weigh your choices. According to the U.S. Federal
Trade Commission, Internet fraud tops the list of the thousands of
fraud cases that happen every year. In some ways, WWW could stand for
the Wild West Web, in that anything goes. Vendors can be villains in
disguise, and there aren't any online Wyatt Earps to protect you from
these bad guys. You're on your own.

But give yourself some credit. You have the common sense it takes to
survive the WWW. It is the same commonsense that helps you make the
most of your money on your standard shopping trips. Become familiar
and comfortable with an online vendor before jumping into a purchase.
Ask questions and do a bit of research.

After doing your research, you'll feel more confident in searching for
your online booty. To refine your findings and whittle your list to
only the exceptional sites, look for these additional qualities:

?A focus on local shopping, so you can feel more confident buying from
neighbors.
?Free education and advice on safe purchasing.
?No-cost and easy browsing through available merchandise.
?Search tools that let you prioritize items by category, location, and
distance.
?A straightforward pricing system that avoids the haggling and risk of
auction bidding.
?Quick price comparisons among different vendors.

Unbelievably, a few trustworthy, practical, and exciting Web sites
exist that have all of these features. To find these websites, simply
browse through Yahoo's directory under the classifieds category. The
best of the online classified sites offer these services free to
buyers such as you. Some of these sites can link you at no charge to
your neighbor selling the antique lamp that you've been hunting for or
that retiree looking to unload an incredible piece of real estate-or
the cowboy looking to sell his big-screen television.

http://cncarrental.cn/html/goodspeech/20060924/1101.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Save Me 3
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/678ea5579057b379?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 4 2008 3:56 am
From: lianzhaowei888@yahoo.cn

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Your objective is to help people/objects in the burning building jump
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== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 4 2008 5:00 am
From: clams_casino

lianzhaowei888@yahoo.cn wrote:

>Description:
>Your objective is to help people/objects in the burning building jump
>to safety to the nets held by the firemen or police below. People/
>objects can jump out the window by clicking on them.
>
>

hmm - what could possibly be suspect about a spammer with a fake address
from china offering a connection to an online game with instructions to
play it over and over.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Free Sample of the Mr Clean Magic Eraser Duo! SMOKING FREEBIE!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4a0470893d0b5f14?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 4 2008 5:07 am
From: "FreebiesPl.us"

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Let's take down the MI5 nut poster
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/488c35f9f82f75e6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 4 2008 5:08 am
From: Chris Caputo

Hi. Sorry about this. The flooder was stopped as quickly as I could do
so.

Chris Caputo
President, Altopia Corporation

imascot <imnot@mycomputer.now> writes:
>I have complained to Altopia.com, the news server this individual is using. Please join me and copy
>just one of his messages, showing full headers, to abuse@altopia.com What I wrote was:

>Dear Altopia:
>Someone posting from your news server is absolutely flooding USENET with spam, posting scores of
>paranoid rantings to to hundreds of groups on a daily basis.

>Here is just one message, with full headers:

>Path: be18.lga!hwmnpeer02.lga!hw-filter.lga!hwmnpeer01.lga!hwmnpeer01.phx!news.highwinds-
>media.com!newsfeed.news2me.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!easynews.com!easynews!
>news.alt.net
>From: imvfvefi@gmail.com
>Newsgroups: alt.support.diet.low-carb,dfw.music,cz.comp.lang.python,alt.sex.video,ccu.bbs.food
>Subject: M'I`5,Persecutio n , abu se in set-up situa tions a nd in pub lic
>Followup-To: alt.support.diet.low-
>carb,dfw.music,cz.comp.lang.python,alt.sex.video,ccu.bbs.food,uk.misc
>Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 14:49:47 +0000 (UTC)
>Organization: Altopia Corp. - Usenet Access - www.altopia.com
>Lines: 106
>Message-ID: <tc0800011449465706@4ax.com>
>Xref: Hurricane-Charley alt.support.diet.low-carb:181686 dfw.music:3208 cz.comp.lang.python:5243
>alt.sex.video:5252 ccu.bbs.food:6873
>X-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 07:49:47 MST (be18.lga)

>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>-= abuse in set-up. situations and in public -=
>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

>Strangers in the street have. recognized me on sight many times, and shown
>awareness of the current thread of abuse. To. give you one example, in 1992
>I was seriously ill, and a manager. at work somewhat humorously said that
>"it wasn't fair" that people were bullying me. A few days later,. I attended
>for the first time. a clinic in London as an outpatient, and on my way out
>was accosted. by someone who asked if "they had paid my fare", with emphasis
>on the word "fare". He repeated the. word several times in this different
>context; that they should have. paid my "fare", each time emphasizing the
>word (usual paranoid ranting snipped)

>3713

>Please take action on this individual, it is making USENET unbearable.

>Thank you,

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Which is more frugal - keep thermostat at 62 or bump up to 66 and let
fall
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/32bcb9a55cab5416?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 4 2008 5:32 am
From: "OhioGuy"

It is usually best to leave it at the same temperature, unless of course
you are going to be gone for a while. For example, if nobody is going to be
home from 8 in the morning until 6PM, you might let the temp drop a bit
during the day.

In my case, we use those electric radiant oil filled heaters. The rooms
where we spend the most time are warmest, and the rooms where we spend the
least time are coldest. It makes the bathroom pretty cold, though not cold
enough to worry about the pipes. Besides, with just one bathroom in the
house, this way there isn't much incentive to sit in there and read on the
toilet for a long time.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 4 2008 8:10 am
From:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Joe" <joe5345@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b2a4263c-85fb-497e-918f-0d41416f6175@5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> back down to 62? It will work harder to get up to the higher temp but
> then it will not cycle for 4 or 5 hours. If I keep it set at 62 it
> will cycle every 30 min. Which uses less energy?

Why set it so high? I leave mine at 58 all winter, all the time, and just
wear a sweater.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 4 2008 10:25 am
From: Joe

On Jan 4, 11:10 am, <h> wrote:
> "Joe" <joe5...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:b2a4263c-85fb-497e-918f-0d41416f6175@5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
> > back down to 62? It will work harder to get up to the higher temp but
> > then it will not cycle for 4 or 5 hours. If I keep it set at 62 it
> > will cycle every 30 min. Which uses less energy?
>
> Why set it so high? I leave mine at 58 all winter, all the time, and just
> wear a sweater.

I would, I actually work in my basement that doesn't have heat at all
and gets as low as 52 in the dead of the winter, but my wife insists
on keeping the heat higher.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Best frugal technology deal you've gotten
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/432b1da46fece658?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 4 2008 5:36 am
From: "OhioGuy"

What's the best technology deal you've gotten in the past couple of
months?

For me, it was the PNY 2 GB USB flash drive I picked up at Staples for
$8.48 using a competitor's $15 off coupon. I actually got two of them, to
replace the old 512 MB ones my wife and I were using.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How do you cut your utility cost?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0f775dcaf5b9b909?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 4 2008 8:08 am
From:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Jeff" <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote in message
news:13nq1hv3pan7k4e@corp.supernews.com...
> Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:
>> Leroy wrote:
>>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>>> Evelyn C. Leeper <eleeper@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>>> It is especially important in the summer to avoid turning on more
>>>>> lights and heavy motors, since they will heat up the house and make
>>>>> the A/C work harder.
>>>>
>>>> Nope, those make a trivial difference with A/C.
>>>
>>> Bullshite. A few hundred watts of heat is quite noticable. I'm in
>>> a 34 foot RV and 400 watts of electric heat is more than enough
>>> to keep the interior 30 degrees F warmer than the exterior.
>>>
>>> In the summer, any standby energy consumed results in heat
>>> which must be removed by AC using yet more energy.
>>
>> To back up Leroy (who was backing me up), in the summertime I notice a
>> definite difference in temperature in our family room when I have the six
>> ceiling lights turned on for any significant time. (In the winter, one
>> doesn't mind as much, but I'm sure the effect is still there.)
>
>
> Let's take 100 watts of extra power. That could be just one incandescent
> bulb. Run that all day and you have over 8000 BTU's That would be a small
> to mid size room AC running for one hour. Obviously that's a good reason
> to decrease heating load by using bulbs that consume less power, like
> CFLs.
>
> But even CFLs use power. Leave on a 14W CFL and you'll use almost
> 11kWhrs a month. THats over a dollar at 10 cents/kWhr and just for one
> bulb. So turning off even small electrical appliances adds up. And it
> would take a small AC five hours to remove the thirty six thousand BTUs.
>
> We'll leave phantom watts for another discussion. But many seldom used
> appliances consume much more power off and idling than on. When you attack
> energy consumption you target the biggest users first, then move down the
> ladder.
>
> None of this means you should be anal about consumption, but everything
> has some cost that adds up over time. Just like turning off a light in a
> room you aren't in makes sense, sometimes it's worth leaving a light on,
> but it still has a cost.
>
> Jeff

I changed all my light bulbs to CFLs a few years ago. It wasn't so much the
energy savings as the savings on the bulbs themselves, plus reducing the
heat the old bulbs produced. Since we don't use AC, we noticed a huge
difference in comfort level immediately in the kitchen and my workroom. We
did this in the summer (Upstate NY), and the last day of incandescents the
kitchen was 90 at 3pm and the next day it was 80 (same highs both days). My
work room dropped 20 degrees from 102 to 82. MUCH more pleasant.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 4 2008 8:34 am
From: Jeff

h wrote:
> "Jeff" <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote in message
> news:13nq1hv3pan7k4e@corp.supernews.com...
>> Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:
>>> Leroy wrote:
>>>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>> Evelyn C. Leeper <eleeper@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>>>> It is especially important in the summer to avoid turning on more
>>>>>> lights and heavy motors, since they will heat up the house and make
>>>>>> the A/C work harder.
>>>>> Nope, those make a trivial difference with A/C.
>>>> Bullshite. A few hundred watts of heat is quite noticable. I'm in
>>>> a 34 foot RV and 400 watts of electric heat is more than enough
>>>> to keep the interior 30 degrees F warmer than the exterior.
>>>>
>>>> In the summer, any standby energy consumed results in heat
>>>> which must be removed by AC using yet more energy.
>>> To back up Leroy (who was backing me up), in the summertime I notice a
>>> definite difference in temperature in our family room when I have the six
>>> ceiling lights turned on for any significant time. (In the winter, one
>>> doesn't mind as much, but I'm sure the effect is still there.)
>>
>> Let's take 100 watts of extra power. That could be just one incandescent
>> bulb. Run that all day and you have over 8000 BTU's That would be a small
>> to mid size room AC running for one hour. Obviously that's a good reason
>> to decrease heating load by using bulbs that consume less power, like
>> CFLs.
>>
>> But even CFLs use power. Leave on a 14W CFL and you'll use almost
>> 11kWhrs a month. THats over a dollar at 10 cents/kWhr and just for one
>> bulb. So turning off even small electrical appliances adds up. And it
>> would take a small AC five hours to remove the thirty six thousand BTUs.
>>
>> We'll leave phantom watts for another discussion. But many seldom used
>> appliances consume much more power off and idling than on. When you attack
>> energy consumption you target the biggest users first, then move down the
>> ladder.
>>
>> None of this means you should be anal about consumption, but everything
>> has some cost that adds up over time. Just like turning off a light in a
>> room you aren't in makes sense, sometimes it's worth leaving a light on,
>> but it still has a cost.
>>
>> Jeff
>
> I changed all my light bulbs to CFLs a few years ago. It wasn't so much the
> energy savings as the savings on the bulbs themselves, plus reducing the
> heat the old bulbs produced. Since we don't use AC, we noticed a huge
> difference in comfort level immediately in the kitchen and my workroom. We
> did this in the summer (Upstate NY), and the last day of incandescents the
> kitchen was 90 at 3pm and the next day it was 80 (same highs both days). My
> work room dropped 20 degrees from 102 to 82. MUCH more pleasant.
>

CFLs are wonderful things. And if you buy a brand name they last much
longer. That's more a caution not to buy any from the offbrand discount
stores. Those tend to be just as bad as the others are good. I've had
good results here with lifespan, I think I've replaced one in the last 5
years.

Nice to hear you've made a big boost to your comfort level just by
switching. Kitchens and workrooms need to be well lit and it's great
that you no longer have to withstand the heat and can stay in the kitchen!

Jeff
>

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 4 2008 10:52 am
From: Brian Elfert

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> writes:

>> how much can one expect to save by cutting their thermostat setting by
>> 10 degrees?

>Varys with how well the house is insulated.

>If the insulation is perfect, it wont have any effect.

Insulation slows heat loss. It cannot stop heat loss.

If you heat a house to 65 degrees and the temperature outside is lower
than 65 degrees you will lose heat. It is just a matter of how long it
takes for the heat to be lost. This of course assumes nothing in the
house is generating any heat at all.

Brian Elfert

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 4 2008 11:08 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Brian Elfert <belfert@visi.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>>> how much can one expect to save by cutting their thermostat setting by 10 degrees?

>> Varys with how well the house is insulated.

>> If the insulation is perfect, it wont have any effect.

> Insulation slows heat loss. It cannot stop heat loss.

Wrong, as always.

> If you heat a house to 65 degrees and the temperature
> outside is lower than 65 degrees you will lose heat. It
> is just a matter of how long it takes for the heat to be lost.

And if the insulation is perfect, that will be a very long time, stupid.

> This of course assumes nothing in the house is generating any heat at all.

Which is a stupid assumption. In practice its prefectly possible to
have the insulation so good that the heat generated by the individuals
and stuff like lights sees the temperature rise due to that heat.

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Date: Fri, Jan 4 2008 9:37 am
From: Jeff

BrotherSandMonkey wrote:
> There is obviously a need for soup kitchens to exist in the light of
> homeless, unemployed and disabled people. Recently one soup kitchen
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> kitchens?
>
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Friday, January 4, 2008

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