Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 11 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f1ccbf1e0c051fd8?hl=en
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: CHANEL COCO CABAS BLACK LEATHER TOTE BAG,retail,dropship,wholesale
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f1ccbf1e0c051fd8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 8 2008 6:22 am
From: lottutrade@gmail.com

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Louis Vuitton Palermo PM Handbag,RETAIL,DROPSHIP,WHOLESALE AVAILABLE
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2d176e02ab358887?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 8 2008 6:40 am
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Nephew running with the money
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/edfc5e913ef45ab5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 12 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 8 2008 6:40 am
From: "tim $not at home$"

"johnclayton_____" <void95@voidacious.net> wrote in message
news:aKvAj.6568$kN5.2871@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
>A friend who is normally resident in the U.K., on the recent death of his
> mother in Scotland arranged with his two sisters and the family solicitor
> (in Scotland) to pay £100,000 to his nephew to 'reduce' the inheritence
> tax
> they would have to pay because of the value of the mother's house.
>
> It was made clear to the Nephew by the mother's three children that this
> money was *not permanently* given to him, and that he was expected to pay
> it
> back at a later date.
>
> This understanding that he would pay it back, was also made clear to the
> solicitor in Scotland who 'arranged' the transaction. The solicitor also
> knew that this payment to the nephew was to *evade* (avoid) paying the
> full
> inheritance tax.
>
> Surprise, surprise... the Nephew does not want to pay the money back. He
> is
> now turning nasty and unco-operative. What advice might it possible
> to give in this situation to try to recover some of this *stolen* money?

Firstly, I agree with Peter about not seeing how it would reduce an IHT
bill.

But if this situation did occur:
you have zero chance of getting the money back, because the clauses of a
contract, the purpose of which is to commit a crime, cannot be enforced.
So, the requirement to give the money back is effectively void.

tim

== 2 of 12 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 8 2008 8:41 am
From: Logan Shaw

johnclayton_____ wrote:
> A friend who is normally resident in the U.K., on the recent death of his
> mother in Scotland arranged with his two sisters and the family solicitor
> (in Scotland) to pay £100,000 to his nephew to 'reduce' the inheritence tax
> they would have to pay because of the value of the mother's house.
>
> It was made clear to the Nephew by the mother's three children that this
> money was *not permanently* given to him, and that he was expected to pay it
> back at a later date.
>
> This understanding that he would pay it back, was also made clear to the
> solicitor in Scotland who 'arranged' the transaction. The solicitor also
> knew that this payment to the nephew was to *evade* (avoid) paying the full
> inheritance tax.
>
> Surprise, surprise... the Nephew does not want to pay the money back. He is
> now turning nasty and unco-operative. What advice might it possible
> to give in this situation to try to recover some of this *stolen* money?

To me, the most interesting question to ask about this situation is
where the nephew got the idea that it was OK to refuse to give someone
money that you currently possess but rightfully owe to them. And the
reason that's an interesting question is that the answer is his parents,
and/or aunts/uncles. In fact, it seems like an entire group of
authority figures got together and made a concerted, organized effort
to demonstrate to him that it's acceptable to try to hold on to
someone else's money if you can get away with it.

So it's not surprising at all that he, being young and having nobody
worthy to rely on for moral direction, decided to keep the money.
What is surprising is that the adults didn't seem to expect him to
do it. I guess in this situation he outsmarted them.

Then the next question is what the nephew should do about it.
Financially, he's up by £100,000, but money isn't everything, and on
a personal level, he's setting a precedent for his own behavior by
participating in this. That's actually kind of damaging to him,
and it might be good for him to find a way to make this right, in
order to preserve (or improve) his character. Just keeping the
money means that he's decided for himself that it is, in fact, OK
to keep things that are not yours. It's one thing for another
person to steer you in a certain direction, but it's a different
thing to choose that path for yourself, so if I were him, I would
think that'd be something to avoid. So, IMHO, he should get rid
of the money somehow.

- Logan

== 3 of 12 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 8 2008 9:11 am
From: "TJ"

Logan Shaw wrote:

> johnclayton_____ wrote:
>> A friend who is normally resident in the U.K., on the recent death
>> of his mother in Scotland arranged with his two sisters and the
>> family solicitor (in Scotland) to pay £100,000 to his nephew to
>> 'reduce' the inheritence tax they would have to pay because of the
>> value of the mother's house. It was made clear to the Nephew by the
>> mother's three children that
>> this money was *not permanently* given to him, and that he was
>> expected to pay it back at a later date.
>>
>> This understanding that he would pay it back, was also made clear to
>> the solicitor in Scotland who 'arranged' the transaction. The solicitor
>> also knew that this payment to the nephew was to *evade*
>> (avoid) paying the full inheritance tax.
>>
>> Surprise, surprise... the Nephew does not want to pay the money
>> back. He is now turning nasty and unco-operative. What advice
>> might it possible to give in this situation to try to recover some of
>> this *stolen*
>> money?
>
> To me, the most interesting question to ask about this situation is
> where the nephew got the idea that it was OK to refuse to give someone
> money that you currently possess but rightfully owe to them.

Don't know how it works in the UK, but if the same thing happened in the US
I doubt he would "rightfully" owe them a dime. (Morally would be a
different issue) Most likely he got the idea from the family. They
knowingly involved him in a scheme to fuck the government out of inheritance
tax, so he took a page out of their book, and in the end, decided to fuck
the relatives as well as the government. IANAL, but I think this would come
under the "clean hands" rule of law which dictates that you can't sue
anybody to recover ill-gotten gains.

They certainly can't go after the nephew for the money without exposing
their own guilt in trying to avoid taxes.

I would think if the relatives have cause of action against ANYONE, it would
be the "Solicitor" who assisted in creating the scam. But again, IANAL (I
am not a lawyer) and even THAT would cause them to expose themselves as
crooks.

Bottom line IMO,

Nephew: + 100K
Relatives: 0

Either that, or EVERYBODY goes to jail. :-)

[...]

== 4 of 12 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 8 2008 9:47 am
From: "mentalguy2004"

"TJ" <TJ@no.not> wrote in message
news:8L-dnRh6Q-NIVU_anZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Logan Shaw wrote:
>
>> johnclayton_____ wrote:
>>> A friend who is normally resident in the U.K., on the recent death
>>> of his mother in Scotland arranged with his two sisters and the
>>> family solicitor (in Scotland) to pay £100,000 to his nephew to
>>> 'reduce' the inheritence tax they would have to pay because of the
>>> value of the mother's house. It was made clear to the Nephew by the
>>> mother's three children that
>>> this money was *not permanently* given to him, and that he was
>>> expected to pay it back at a later date.
>>>
>>> This understanding that he would pay it back, was also made clear to
>>> the solicitor in Scotland who 'arranged' the transaction. The solicitor
>>> also knew that this payment to the nephew was to *evade*
>>> (avoid) paying the full inheritance tax.
>>>
>>> Surprise, surprise... the Nephew does not want to pay the money
>>> back. He is now turning nasty and unco-operative. What advice
>>> might it possible to give in this situation to try to recover some of
>>> this *stolen*
>>> money?
>>
>> To me, the most interesting question to ask about this situation is
>> where the nephew got the idea that it was OK to refuse to give someone
>> money that you currently possess but rightfully owe to them.
>
> Don't know how it works in the UK, but if the same thing happened in the
> US I doubt he would "rightfully" owe them a dime. (Morally would be a
> different issue) Most likely he got the idea from the family. They
> knowingly involved him in a scheme to fuck the government out of
> inheritance tax, so he took a page out of their book, and in the end,
> decided to fuck the relatives as well as the government. IANAL, but I
> think this would come under the "clean hands" rule of law which dictates
> that you can't sue anybody to recover ill-gotten gains.
>
> They certainly can't go after the nephew for the money without exposing
> their own guilt in trying to avoid taxes.
>
> I would think if the relatives have cause of action against ANYONE, it
> would be the "Solicitor" who assisted in creating the scam. But again,
> IANAL (I am not a lawyer) and even THAT would cause them to expose
> themselves as crooks.
>
> Bottom line IMO,
>
> Nephew: + 100K
> Relatives: 0
>
> Either that, or EVERYBODY goes to jail. :-)

Hindsight suggests that it would have been cheaper to pay the tax. That
would definitely be better than watching the nephew flaunting his 100 grand.
Best 5 minutes work he ever did, agreeing to that deal!

== 5 of 12 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 8 2008 9:46 am
From: Scott in SoCal

On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 12:35:18 GMT, "johnclayton_____"
<void95@voidacious.net> wrote:

>A friend who is normally resident in the U.K., on the recent death of his
>mother in Scotland arranged with his two sisters and the family solicitor
>(in Scotland) to pay £100,000 to his nephew to 'reduce' the inheritence tax
>they would have to pay because of the value of the mother's house.
>
>It was made clear to the Nephew by the mother's three children that this
>money was *not permanently* given to him, and that he was expected to pay it
>back at a later date.
>
>This understanding that he would pay it back, was also made clear to the
>solicitor in Scotland who 'arranged' the transaction. The solicitor also
>knew that this payment to the nephew was to *evade* (avoid) paying the full
>inheritance tax.
>
>Surprise, surprise... the Nephew does not want to pay the money back. He is
>now turning nasty and unco-operative. What advice might it possible
>to give in this situation to try to recover some of this *stolen* money?

Serves you right for trying to cheat on your taxes. Karma bites you in
the ass. :)

== 6 of 12 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 8 2008 9:55 am
From: "Rod Speed"

johnclayton_____ <void95@voidacious.net> wrote:

> A friend who is normally resident in the U.K., on the recent death of
> his mother in Scotland arranged with his two sisters and the family
> solicitor (in Scotland) to pay £100,000 to his nephew to 'reduce' the
> inheritence tax they would have to pay because of the value of the
> mother's house.

> It was made clear to the Nephew by the mother's three children that
> this money was *not permanently* given to him, and that he was
> expected to pay it back at a later date.

> This understanding that he would pay it back, was also made clear to
> the solicitor in Scotland who 'arranged' the transaction. The solicitor also knew that this payment to the nephew was
> to *evade*
> (avoid) paying the full inheritance tax.

> Surprise, surprise... the Nephew does not want to pay the money back.
> He is now turning nasty and unco-operative. What advice might it possible to give in this situation to try to
> recover some of this *stolen* money?

It aint stolen money, they were stupid enough to give it to him.

== 7 of 12 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 8 2008 9:58 am
From: "Rod Speed"

TJ <TJ@no.not> wrote:
> Logan Shaw wrote:
>
>> johnclayton_____ wrote:
>>> A friend who is normally resident in the U.K., on the recent death
>>> of his mother in Scotland arranged with his two sisters and the
>>> family solicitor (in Scotland) to pay £100,000 to his nephew to
>>> 'reduce' the inheritence tax they would have to pay because of the
>>> value of the mother's house. It was made clear to the Nephew by the
>>> mother's three children that
>>> this money was *not permanently* given to him, and that he was
>>> expected to pay it back at a later date.
>>>
>>> This understanding that he would pay it back, was also made clear to
>>> the solicitor in Scotland who 'arranged' the transaction. The
>>> solicitor also knew that this payment to the nephew was to *evade*
>>> (avoid) paying the full inheritance tax.
>>>
>>> Surprise, surprise... the Nephew does not want to pay the money
>>> back. He is now turning nasty and unco-operative. What advice
>>> might it possible to give in this situation to try to recover some
>>> of this *stolen*
>>> money?
>>
>> To me, the most interesting question to ask about this situation is
>> where the nephew got the idea that it was OK to refuse to give
>> someone money that you currently possess but rightfully owe to them.
>
> Don't know how it works in the UK, but if the same thing happened in
> the US I doubt he would "rightfully" owe them a dime. (Morally would
> be a different issue) Most likely he got the idea from the family. They knowingly involved him in a scheme to fuck
> the government out of
> inheritance tax, so he took a page out of their book, and in the end,
> decided to fuck the relatives as well as the government. IANAL, but
> I think this would come under the "clean hands" rule of law which
> dictates that you can't sue anybody to recover ill-gotten gains.
>
> They certainly can't go after the nephew for the money without
> exposing their own guilt in trying to avoid taxes.
>
> I would think if the relatives have cause of action against ANYONE,
> it would be the "Solicitor" who assisted in creating the scam. But
> again, IANAL (I am not a lawyer) and even THAT would cause them to
> expose themselves as crooks.
>
> Bottom line IMO,
>
> Nephew: + 100K
> Relatives: 0
>
> Either that, or EVERYBODY goes to jail. :-)

It isnt a jailable offense there.

== 8 of 12 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 8 2008 10:00 am
From: "TJ"

Rod Speed wrote:

> TJ <TJ@no.not> wrote:
>> Logan Shaw wrote:
>>
>>> johnclayton_____ wrote:
>>>> A friend who is normally resident in the U.K., on the recent death
>>>> of his mother in Scotland arranged with his two sisters and the
>>>> family solicitor (in Scotland) to pay £100,000 to his nephew to
>>>> 'reduce' the inheritence tax they would have to pay because of the
>>>> value of the mother's house. It was made clear to the Nephew by the
>>>> mother's three children that
>>>> this money was *not permanently* given to him, and that he was
>>>> expected to pay it back at a later date.
>>>>
>>>> This understanding that he would pay it back, was also made clear
>>>> to the solicitor in Scotland who 'arranged' the transaction. The
>>>> solicitor also knew that this payment to the nephew was to *evade*
>>>> (avoid) paying the full inheritance tax.
>>>>
>>>> Surprise, surprise... the Nephew does not want to pay the money
>>>> back. He is now turning nasty and unco-operative. What advice
>>>> might it possible to give in this situation to try to recover some
>>>> of this *stolen*
>>>> money?
>>>
>>> To me, the most interesting question to ask about this situation is
>>> where the nephew got the idea that it was OK to refuse to give
>>> someone money that you currently possess but rightfully owe to them.
>>
>> Don't know how it works in the UK, but if the same thing happened in
>> the US I doubt he would "rightfully" owe them a dime. (Morally would
>> be a different issue) Most likely he got the idea from the family.
>> They knowingly involved him in a scheme to fuck the government out of
>> inheritance tax, so he took a page out of their book, and in the end,
>> decided to fuck the relatives as well as the government. IANAL, but
>> I think this would come under the "clean hands" rule of law which
>> dictates that you can't sue anybody to recover ill-gotten gains.
>>
>> They certainly can't go after the nephew for the money without
>> exposing their own guilt in trying to avoid taxes.
>>
>> I would think if the relatives have cause of action against ANYONE,
>> it would be the "Solicitor" who assisted in creating the scam. But
>> again, IANAL (I am not a lawyer) and even THAT would cause them to
>> expose themselves as crooks.
>>
>> Bottom line IMO,
>>
>> Nephew: + 100K
>> Relatives: 0
>>
>> Either that, or EVERYBODY goes to jail. :-)
>
> It isnt a jailable offense there.

OK. Then EVERYBODY pays a fine? :-)

== 9 of 12 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 8 2008 10:03 am
From: "TJ"

Rod Speed wrote:

> johnclayton_____ <void95@voidacious.net> wrote:
>
>> A friend who is normally resident in the U.K., on the recent death of
>> his mother in Scotland arranged with his two sisters and the family
>> solicitor (in Scotland) to pay £100,000 to his nephew to 'reduce' the
>> inheritence tax they would have to pay because of the value of the
>> mother's house.
>
>> It was made clear to the Nephew by the mother's three children that
>> this money was *not permanently* given to him, and that he was
>> expected to pay it back at a later date.
>
>> This understanding that he would pay it back, was also made clear to
>> the solicitor in Scotland who 'arranged' the transaction. The
>> solicitor also knew that this payment to the nephew was to *evade*
>> (avoid) paying the full inheritance tax.
>
>> Surprise, surprise... the Nephew does not want to pay the money back.
>> He is now turning nasty and unco-operative. What advice might it
>> possible to give in this situation to try to recover some of this
>> *stolen* money?
>
> It aint stolen money, they were stupid enough to give it to him.

It wasn't theirs to "give". At least not until AFTER the taxes were paid on
it.

== 10 of 12 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 8 2008 10:08 am
From: "Nebulous"

Bwahaaahaaa

They arrange an illegal transaction then get upset when he doesn't pay it
back!

Neb

== 11 of 12 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 8 2008 10:09 am
From: "Geoff Pearson"

"TJ" <TJ@no.not> wrote in message
news:e4idnTuRSP9xSU_anZ2dnUVZ_u-unZ2d@comcast.com...
> Rod Speed wrote:
>
>> johnclayton_____ <void95@voidacious.net> wrote:
>>
>>> A friend who is normally resident in the U.K., on the recent death of
>>> his mother in Scotland arranged with his two sisters and the family
>>> solicitor (in Scotland) to pay £100,000 to his nephew to 'reduce' the
>>> inheritence tax they would have to pay because of the value of the
>>> mother's house.
>>
>>> It was made clear to the Nephew by the mother's three children that
>>> this money was *not permanently* given to him, and that he was
>>> expected to pay it back at a later date.
>>
>>> This understanding that he would pay it back, was also made clear to
>>> the solicitor in Scotland who 'arranged' the transaction. The
>>> solicitor also knew that this payment to the nephew was to *evade*
>>> (avoid) paying the full inheritance tax.
>>
>>> Surprise, surprise... the Nephew does not want to pay the money back.
>>> He is now turning nasty and unco-operative. What advice might it
>>> possible to give in this situation to try to recover some of this
>>> *stolen* money?
>>
>> It aint stolen money, they were stupid enough to give it to him.
>
> It wasn't theirs to "give". At least not until AFTER the taxes were paid
> on it.
>
>
>
>
>

I can't believe we are discussing this hokum. It is a troll, big time.

== 12 of 12 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 8 2008 10:15 am
From: "TJ"

Geoff Pearson wrote:

> "TJ" <TJ@no.not> wrote in message
> news:e4idnTuRSP9xSU_anZ2dnUVZ_u-unZ2d@comcast.com...
>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>
>>> johnclayton_____ <void95@voidacious.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> A friend who is normally resident in the U.K., on the recent death
>>>> of his mother in Scotland arranged with his two sisters and the
>>>> family solicitor (in Scotland) to pay £100,000 to his nephew to
>>>> 'reduce' the inheritence tax they would have to pay because of the
>>>> value of the mother's house.
>>>
>>>> It was made clear to the Nephew by the mother's three children that
>>>> this money was *not permanently* given to him, and that he was
>>>> expected to pay it back at a later date.
>>>
>>>> This understanding that he would pay it back, was also made clear
>>>> to the solicitor in Scotland who 'arranged' the transaction. The
>>>> solicitor also knew that this payment to the nephew was to *evade*
>>>> (avoid) paying the full inheritance tax.
>>>
>>>> Surprise, surprise... the Nephew does not want to pay the money
>>>> back. He is now turning nasty and unco-operative. What advice
>>>> might it possible to give in this situation to try to recover some
>>>> of this *stolen* money?
>>>
>>> It aint stolen money, they were stupid enough to give it to him.
>>
>> It wasn't theirs to "give". At least not until AFTER the taxes were
>> paid on it.

> I can't believe we are discussing this hokum. It is a troll, big
> time.

Maybe it is, maybe it's not. All I can say is that in this day and age,
it's certainly within the realm of possibility that something like the above
might occur.

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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 8 2008 8:59 am
From: Patient Guy

Shawn Hirn <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in misc.consumers.frugal-living:

> In article
> <e6c5c8ce-93fa-410f-ab12-b22c58d13fd8@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
> James <j0069bond@hotmail.com> wrote:
>

> I also recently replaced my old car with a Toyota Prius because I fully
> expect the price of gas to go even higher over the life of the car.

I was just watching a Fox Noise early Saturday morning "cost of freedom"
show, and one of their typically idiot analysts said that a hybrid costing
$9000 more---does it?----means that the owner will not re-coup that cost
in fuel savings presumbably over the life of the vehicle.

I have been trying to make calculations to determine whether that is true.

Assume you are comparing two car buyers. One buys the average gas guzzler
on the road----an SUV that gets 15 mpg city mileage----and laughs
uncontrollably at the other one who buys a hybrid---say a Prius getting 50
mpg in the city. Assume that the Prius buyer paid $9000 more (don't
forget to include taxes and govt fees here, and maybe interest on the
loan, if any) for the vehicle (this is the analyst's statement...feel free
to chime in with an alternate or true reality and mess with these
figures). For the question below, you will need to also assume that both
drivers put 15,000 miles annually on their vehicles, and also assume that
the price of gas is the current price of gas, let's say $3.50 / gallon.

The question before you is "how many months will it take for the Prius
owner to realize the fuel savings for the additional $9000 he put into the
vehicle?" You might also want to factor in a reasonable estimation of
the depreciation/re-sale value of the Prius vs. the SUV.

The Prius driver gets 35 mpg (= 50 - 15) more than the SUV driver.

gal 35 miles year 12 months
$9000 * ------- * --------- * ------------ * --------- = 72 months
$3.50 gal 15,000 miles year

In other words, it will take exactly 6 years for the Prius owner to be
able to laugh uncontrollably at the SUV driver and to be able to say that
he's starting to realize those fuel savings.

Of course, you can argue with the assumptions about the $9000 additional
cost, the price of gasoline remaining steady, or the annual mileage use.

Feel free to interject with what you may consider to be more realistic
numbers here, or even an actual comparison!

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 8 2008 9:52 am
From: "Lou"

"Patient Guy" <sevisen.adam@gmailDOTHEREcom> wrote in message
news:Xns9A5B5B7FE8490UVAA@207.115.33.102...
> Shawn Hirn <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in misc.consumers.frugal-living:
>
> > In article
> > <e6c5c8ce-93fa-410f-ab12-b22c58d13fd8@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
> > James <j0069bond@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
>
> > I also recently replaced my old car with a Toyota Prius because I fully
> > expect the price of gas to go even higher over the life of the car.
>
> I was just watching a Fox Noise early Saturday morning "cost of freedom"
> show, and one of their typically idiot analysts said that a hybrid costing
> $9000 more---does it?----means that the owner will not re-coup that cost
> in fuel savings presumbably over the life of the vehicle.
>
> I have been trying to make calculations to determine whether that is true.
>
> Assume you are comparing two car buyers. One buys the average gas guzzler
> on the road----an SUV that gets 15 mpg city mileage----and laughs
> uncontrollably at the other one who buys a hybrid---say a Prius getting 50
> mpg in the city. Assume that the Prius buyer paid $9000 more (don't
> forget to include taxes and govt fees here, and maybe interest on the
> loan, if any) for the vehicle (this is the analyst's statement...feel free
> to chime in with an alternate or true reality and mess with these
> figures). For the question below, you will need to also assume that both
> drivers put 15,000 miles annually on their vehicles, and also assume that
> the price of gas is the current price of gas, let's say $3.50 / gallon.
>
> The question before you is "how many months will it take for the Prius
> owner to realize the fuel savings for the additional $9000 he put into the
> vehicle?" You might also want to factor in a reasonable estimation of
> the depreciation/re-sale value of the Prius vs. the SUV.
>
> The Prius driver gets 35 mpg (= 50 - 15) more than the SUV driver.
>
> gal 35 miles year 12 months
> $9000 * ------- * --------- * ------------ * --------- = 72 months
> $3.50 gal 15,000 miles year
>
> In other words, it will take exactly 6 years for the Prius owner to be
> able to laugh uncontrollably at the SUV driver and to be able to say that
> he's starting to realize those fuel savings.
>
> Of course, you can argue with the assumptions about the $9000 additional
> cost, the price of gasoline remaining steady, or the annual mileage use.
>
> Feel free to interject with what you may consider to be more realistic
> numbers here, or even an actual comparison!

Well, considering that the average life of a car in the US is 12-13 years,
I'd say that your numbers tend to confirm what that analyst said.

But your comparison between such two very different vehicles is
unreasonable. You pay a premium for a hybrid vehicle, and it takes time to
recoup that premium in the form of reduced fuel usage. To judge whether
it's worth it or not, comparisons should be between similar vehicles. If I
posted figures comparing the Ford Escape SUV hybrid (which is rated pretty
decent, mileage-wise) and a Toyota Yaris, I could easily show that the
non-hybrid would be a smarter buy, but you would very reasonably object that
comparing what amounts to a truck with a compact car wasn't fair.

Pulling figures from www.edmunds.com, a basic Honda civic sedan hybrid has a
five year "true cost to own" (based on 15,000 miles per year, and includes
depreciation, financing, insurances, taxes, fuel, maintenance, and repairs)
of $35,912. (Edmunds comes up with the same number for the Prius)
Meanwhile, a basic Honda civic sedan (since the hybrid has a continuously
variable transmission, I'm looking at the non-hybrid with automatic
transmission) has a true cost to own over 5 years of $32, 373.

That's a 5 year cost difference of $3,539 in favor of the non hybrid.
There's an initial purchase price difference of $6,790 - if you're not
financing the car but paying cash on the barrelhead, calculate what that
difference could earn using whatever set of assumptions you like.

Not a stunning difference, but still over 5 years you'll likely spend more
to drive a hybrid than a COMPARABLE non-hybrid. You'll spend more on gas
for the non-hybrid, but more than make up for that savings in increased
financing and depreciation costs. If your aim is to save gas, buy the
hybrid. If your aim is to save money, buy the non hybrid.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 8 2008 9:55 am
From: "unreelistuk@aol.com"

> Years ago, I moved very close to work, so my commute averages about 20
> minutes each way in normal traffic. Were in not for a bridge I have to
> pass over, my commute would be even shorter.
>

I wish I could have a short commute. Every time I go jobseeking, it
seems there is always only one "good" job out of the 20 or 30 I check
out, and this "good" job is always far away from me, and the so-so
jobs are all close. So I end up going for the "good" job (higherpay,
better hours, bens, everything) and suffering the commute.

On ethanol, I fear that it does eat away at seals. My car has a
carburetor, which has seals, so I worry about it.

The greedheads are now talking about bumping it up from 10% ethanol
to 20% ethanol, which will suck even more for Joe Average, but hey it
will make money for corporations like ADM and Exxon/Mobil , and we all
know corprations are God, so I guess we must have more ethanol.

And keep that BushFlation going, since we need more easy money to
pay off the Iraq oil war debt.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: where wholesales the cheapest electrionical products?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/babbafffc79562db?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 8 2008 9:15 am
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TOPIC: where wholesales the cheapest electronic products?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/10c1a16f2cd7c75c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 8 2008 9:58 am
From: aaaeryuyhyui@gmail.com

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== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 8 2008 10:06 am
From: aaaeryuyhyui@gmail.com

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If you have some suggestions about our products or our service, please
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Our Belief: Credit is the first, Customers are our God.
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