Frugal Living: 24 new messages in 16 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: For Non-Muslims
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/80b4ebf934225518?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 1 2008 1:51 am
From: Markku Grönroos

"Lookout" <mrLookout@yahoo.com> kirjoitti
viestissä:7ci2v3dg81i3ais2vd1mqnk22vrb90bbua@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 06:01:13 +1100, "Rod Speed"
> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Lookout <mrLookout@yahoo.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> catchme <someone@somewhere.net> wrote
>>>>> Tralfamador wrote
>>>>>> catchme wrote
>>
>>>>>>> Einstein, a self-admitted atheist, found that "God is in the center
>>>>>>> of the Universe."
>>
>>>> Thats not an athiest, stupid.
>>
>>>>>>> lookout is upset that i use references to Einstein, because at least
>>>>>>> Einstein could have made the claim that he was rational in his
>>>>>>> beliefs.
>>
>>> Not me. You must mean my troll. Looks like he's gone now.
>>
>>>> He can claim anything he likes. He was actually stupid enough to
>>>> claim that god does not play dice with the universe. God may well
>>>> not, but something clearly does, most obviously with radioactive decay.
>>
>>> Again, that must be my troll because I never said or implied that.
>>
>>That was a comment about what Einstein said,
>>not a comment about what any poster here said.
>>
>>>>>> I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but
>>>>>> have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called
>>>>>> religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of
>>>>>> the world so far as our science can reveal it. (Albert Einstein,
>>>>>> 1954)
>>
>>>> That aint religion.
>>
>>>>>> I believe in Spinoza's God
>>
>>>> So he aint an atheist.
>>
>>>>>> who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in
>>>>>> a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human
>>>>>> beings. (Albert Einstein)
>>
>>>> More fool you.
>>
>>>>>> The Jewish tradition also contains something else, something which
>>>>>> finds splendid expression in many of the Psalms, namely, a sort of
>>>>>> intoxicated joy and amazement at the beauty and grandeur of this
>>>>>> world, of which man can form just a faint notion. This joy is the
>>>>>> feeling from which true scientific research draws its spiritual
>>>>>> sustenance, but which also seems to find expression in the song of
>>>>>> birds. To tack this feeling to the idea of God seems mere childish
>>>>>> absurdity. (Albert Einstein, 1934)
>>
>>>> It is indeed.
>>>>
>>>>> everytime i read someone like Einstein, I am led to a greater
>>>>> recognisance of my own beliefs.
>>
>>>> More fool you.
>>
>>>>> When I say this, I mean that I am constantly evaluating, and
>>>>> adapting- I am a thinking person, and therefore on occasion i am
>>>>> bound to recognise a flaw in my values.
>>
>>>> But you dont even notice the crutch you are reaching for.
>>
>>>>> Much of my own religion (i.e. on spirituality and respect for Nature)
>>>>> is on similiar terms with Einstein, save that i belive as aristotle,
>>>>> in
>>>>> seeking out one's own truth- and therefore I imagine a God much
>>>>> diferent from Einstein and that of Organised Religion- a God who is
>>>>> (for the most part) as disaffected with Humanity as we would be
>>>>> with an ant farm.
>>
>>>> Just the crutch you need.
>>
>>>>> I dont fear God- not in the sense that if i commit a sin, im going to
>>>>> die.
>>
>>>> Few religions run that line.
>>
>>>>> In the greater sense, that what was made can be undone by the
>>>>> merest whisper of a whim from a Superior Being...this i fear.
>>
>>>> More fool you.
>>
>>>>> But why create the Universe at all?
>>
>>>> Yep, thats the obvious flaw in your crutch.
>>
>>>>> If you were God, how else could you prove your power, if there was
>>>>> no one to witness it? God's fear is that of being alone.
>>
>>>> Mindlessly silly.
>>
>>>>> Therefore he needs us and we need Him. Whatever name you call him,
>>>>> he does not care. Likely he will answer to every religious belief.
>>
>>>> Just another mindless crutch.
>>
>>>>> http://www.spaceandmotion.com/albert-einstein-god-religion-theology.htm
>>
>>>>> The most beautiful and most profound experience is the sensation of
>>>>> the mystical.
>>
>>>> Only for the terminally wooly minded fools.
>>
>>>>> It is the sower of all true science.
>>
>>>> Wrong.
>>
>>>>> He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer wonder and
>>>>> stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead.
>>
>>>> Mindlessly silly.
>>
>>>>> To know that what is impenetrable to us really exists, manifesting
>>>>> itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty which our
>>>>> dull faculties can comprehend only in their primitive forms - this
>>>>> knowledge, this feeling is at the center of true religiousness. (
>>>>> Albert Einstein - The Merging of Spirit and Science)
>>
>>>> Just another crutch.
>>
>>>>> My religiosity consists in a humble admiration of the infinitely
>>>>> superior spirit that reveals itself in the little that we, with our
>>>>> weak and transitory understanding, can comprehend of reality.
>>>>> Morality is of the highest importance -- but for us, not for God.
>>>>> (Albert Einstein,The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh
>>>>> Hoffman, Princeton University Press)
>>
>>>>> but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist
>>>>> whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the
>>>>> fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth.
>>
>>>> Easy to claim, hell of a lot harder to actually substantiate that
>>>> claim.
>>
>>>>> I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of
>>>>> our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being.
>>>>> (Albert Einstein)
>>
>>>> Your problem.
>>
>>>>> I see a pattern, but my imagination cannot picture the maker of that
>>>>> pattern. I see a clock, but I cannot envision the clockmaker. The
>>>>> human
>>>>> mind is unable to conceive of the four dimensions, so how can it
>>>>> conceive of a God, before whom a thousand years and a thousand
>>>>> dimensions are as one? (The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton
>>>>> University Press, 2000 p. 208)
>>
>>>> Just another complete wank.
>>
>>>>> Then there are the fanatical atheists whose intolerance is the same
>>>>> as that of the religious fanatics, and it springs from the same
>>>>> source .
>>
>>>> Nope.
>>
>>>>> . . They are creatures who can't hear the music of the spheres.
>>
>>>> There is no music of the spheres.
>>
>>>>> (The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton University Press, 2000 p.
>>>>> 214)
>>
>>>>> In the view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited
>>>>> human mind, am able to recognise, there are yet people who say
>>>>> there is no God.
>>
>>>> Must be one of those rocket scientist wankers.
>>
>>>>> But what makes me really angry is that they quote me for support
>>>>> for such views. (The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton
>>>>> University Press, p. 214)
>>
>>>> Your problem.
>>
>>>>> In my view, it is the most important function of art and science to
>>>>> awaken this religious feeling and keep it alive in those who are
>>>>> receptive to it. (Albert Einstein, 1930)
>>
>>>> More fool you.
>>
>>>>> also:
>>>>> No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of
>>>>> Jesus.
>>
>>>> Trouble is that all that proves is what a fool he was.
>>
>>>>> His personality pulsates in every word.
>>
>>>> True of all the other fools that have started other religions too.
>>
>>>>> No myth is filled with such life."
>>
>>>> What he was stupid enough to believe is the myth.
>>
>>>> And he was stupid enough to get nailed up by the romans.
>>
>>>>> "To sense that behind anything that can be experienced there is
>>>>> something that our minds cannot grasp, whose beauty and sublimity
>>>>> reaches us only indirectly, this is religiousness."
>>
>>>> Just another mindlessly silly wank, actually.
>>
>>>>> (What I Believe, 1930)
>>
>>>> Pffft.
>>
>>> Don't forget Einstein was wrong about the expanding universe theory,
>>> even made up a "universal constant" to hide his mistake. It took Hubble
>>> viewing Andromeda to make Einstein rethink and admit he was wrong.
>>
>>Sure, but at least he did admit he was wrong.
>>
> And he's wrong on a living god.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 1 2008 4:24 am
From: Aardvark

On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 11:49:49 +0300, Markku Grönroos wrote:

> menes nyt takapuolireikään nussiva kakka muualle
>
>
>
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> kirjoitti
> viestissä:65d1vfF2fejleU1@mid.individual.net... x

At last you post something original, Markku. Pity it's not in English and
only a few reindeer herders are likely to understand what you wrote.

Oh, well.

--
Liverpool. European City Of Culture 2008
http://www.liverpool08.com

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 1 2008 4:30 am
From: Markku Grönroos

"Aardvark" <aardvark@youllnever.know> kirjoitti
viestissä:UXoIj.7167$Re3.4186@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
> On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 11:49:49 +0300, Markku GrÃ¶nroos wrote:
>
>> menes nyt takapuolireikÃ¤Ã¤n nussiva kakka muualle
>>
>>
>>
>> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> kirjoitti
>> viestissÃ¤:65d1vfF2fejleU1@mid.individual.net... x
>
>
> At last you post something original, Markku. Pity it's not in English and
> only a few reindeer herders are likely to understand what you wrote.
>
> Oh, well.
>
>
> --
> Liverpool. European City Of Culture 2008
> http://www.liverpool08.com

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 1 2008 4:37 am
From: Aardvark

On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 14:30:05 +0300, Markku Grönroos wrote:

> "Aardvark" <aardvark@youllnever.know> kirjoitti
> viestissä:UXoIj.7167$Re3.4186@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
>> On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 11:49:49 +0300, Markku GrÃ¶nroos wrote:
>>
>>> menes nyt takapuolireikÃ¤Ã¤n nussiva kakka muualle
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> kirjoitti
>>> viestissÃ¤:65d1vfF2fejleU1@mid.individual.net... x
>>
>>
>> At last you post something original, Markku. Pity it's not in English
>> and only a few reindeer herders are likely to understand what you
>> wrote.
>>
>> Oh, well.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Liverpool. European City Of Culture 2008 http://www.liverpool08.com

LOL. You're on the ball today Markku. Six minutes and I get one of your
pointless replies.

You do know there's no newsgroup called alt.homopojat, don't you? What's
that all about?

--
Liverpool. European City Of Culture 2008
http://www.liverpool08.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Definition
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/01325490a4f876e9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 1 2008 1:51 am
From: Markku Grönroos

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> kirjoitti
viestissä:65cuhbF2f4o82U1@mid.individual.net...
> William Black <william.black@hotmail.co.uk> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> James Farrar <james.s.farrar@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>>>> Without the yanks, the british military system wouldnt have lasted for
>>>>> very long.
>
>>>> Two years, three months, then.
>
>>> Nope, it wouldnt have lasted that long without the yanks.
>
>> So, suggest a credible end to the war.
>
> You lot put your hands up when you realise that the yanks arent going to
> bail you out.
>
>> No invasion is possible.
>
> Pig ignorant lie. In spades if Adolf hadnt been stupid enough to invade
> russia that early.
>
>> After early in 1940 the appeasers had been separated from power, there's
>> nobody prepared to surrender.
>
> There would have been plenty if the yanks had told you lot that you were
> doomed and that they werent prepared to send you a damned thing
> without payment in cas up front because your prospects were so pathetic.
>
>> Where does the UK go without US support?
>
> They put their hands up, just like Holland and France etc did.
>
> Adolf would certainly have been prepared to accept an amicable ceasefire,
> but its likely that
> the english would have been too stupid to do that if the yanks had told
> them to get fucked.
>

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 1 2008 1:51 am
From: Markku Grönroos

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> kirjoitti
viestissä:65cu4kF2f5glhU1@mid.individual.net...
> William Black <william.black@hotmail.co.uk> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>> And there's the tiny matter of the Marshall Plan that ensured that we
>>> wouldnt
>>> see an endless repeat of world war after world war in every generation
>>> as well.
>
>> No Marshall Plan money for the UK.
>
> Irrelevant to that ensuring that there wouldnt be WW3 a generation later.
>
>> They wouldn't give us any for political reasons.
>
> Pity about Lend-Lease which left it for dead.
>
> Pity about the yanks choosing to deal with Europe first, even tho they
> had experience much more of a direct problem for themselves with Japan.
>
>> Same as the stab in the back over nuclear weapons.
>
> Another pig ignorant lie.
>
>> We got a loan, which has been repaid in full.
>
> Pig ignorant lie. You never got billed for the total cost
> of what the yanks spent in europe to save your bacon.
>
> You never got billed in full for what the yanks spend to save your bacon
> in WW1 either.
>

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 1 2008 2:19 am
From: The Natural Philosopher

Rod Speed wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c> wrote
>> William Black wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> James Farrar <james.s.farrar@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>>>>> Without the yanks, the british military system wouldnt have lasted for very long.
>
>>>>> Two years, three months, then.
>
>>>> Nope, it wouldnt have lasted that long without the yanks.
>
>>> So, suggest a credible end to the war.
>
>>> No invasion is possible.
>
> Bare faced lie.
>
>>> After early in 1940 the appeasers had been separated from power, there's nobody prepared to surrender.
>
>>> Where does the UK go without US support?
>
>> Uncle Joe Stalin.
>
> Who wouldnt have done a damned thing if Adolf hadnt been stupid enough to invade his country.
>

Nor would anyone. No one minded Adolf marching up and down and being
Adolf, so long as it didn't become compulsory.

No one mionds Amerixans deluding themslves that they are 'free', until
they remove all our liberties to enforce it on us... ;-)

>> Who won the European war really. And nicked half of europe to pay for it.
>
>

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 1 2008 2:44 am
From: Markku Grönroos

"The Natural Philosopher" <a@b.c> kirjoitti
viestissä:1207041562.28381.1@proxy00.news.clara.net...
> Rod Speed wrote:
>> The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c> wrote
>>> William Black wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> James Farrar <james.s.farrar@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>
>>>>>>> Without the yanks, the british military system wouldnt have lasted
>>>>>>> for very long.
>>
>>>>>> Two years, three months, then.
>>
>>>>> Nope, it wouldnt have lasted that long without the yanks.
>>
>>>> So, suggest a credible end to the war.
>>
>>>> No invasion is possible.
>>
>> Bare faced lie.
>>
>>>> After early in 1940 the appeasers had been separated from power,
>>>> there's nobody prepared to surrender.
>>
>>>> Where does the UK go without US support?
>>
>>> Uncle Joe Stalin.
>>
>> Who wouldnt have done a damned thing if Adolf hadnt been stupid enough to
>> invade his country.
>>
>
> Nor would anyone. No one minded Adolf marching up and down and being
> Adolf, so long as it didn't become compulsory.
>
>
> No one mionds Amerixans deluding themslves that they are 'free', until
> they remove all our liberties to enforce it on us... ;-)
>
>>> Who won the European war really. And nicked half of europe to pay for
>>> it.
>>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ♀♂wholesale cheap Nike Air Jordan gucci puma shoes jean belt handbag
coat watch mp3/mp4→ www.netfashion2008.cn♂♀
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/97285409ff03f0ca?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 1 2008 3:05 am
From: xiaoshifeng022@gmail.com

Hotmail: netfashion2008@hotmail.com

(www.netfashion2008.cn )professionally wholesale sports shoes from
china,main product including:Footwear-sneakers series
(nike,puma,adidas,Jordan 1-24,nike max,nike shox,nike dunk,nike
kobe,nike rift,bapesta,timberland
boot,D&G,dsquqred,LV,prada,icecream,NBA,lacoste shoes,ect).,T-
shirts,jeans,hootdies/clothes series.,Sandal slippers series.,Leather
belt series.,Handbags series.,Purse series.,Sunglasses,the sun hats/
cap series.,etc.In the short several years, the company by the most
preferential price, the first-class quality, the first-class
service,the first-class security transportation, receives the domestic
and foreign customers welcome. Product best-selling Europe and
America,france, Southeast Asia, Russia, South Africa, country and area
and so on.
Welcome u coming to business with us !!!
Our msn:netfashion2008@hotmail.com
Our website:http://www.netfashion2008.cn
and wholesale jewelry,watch,mp3,mp4.
wholesale Nike Air Jordan, Nike Air Jordan Retro XI, Nike Air Jordan
shoes
http://www.netfashion2008.cn

and
wholesale Nike Air Jordan Retro Basketball Shoes, Air Jordan I, Air
Jordan
http://www.netfashion2008.cn

a
wholesale Jordan Shoes and Nike Shoes can be found here
http://www.netfashion2008.cn
wholesale Nike Jordan, Air Force 1,Dunk,Air max 95,97
http://www.netfashion2008.cn
wholesale Jordan Shoes, Nike Air Jordan XI and IV, Retro Michael
Jordan Shoes
(www.netfashion2008.cn)
wholesale Nike Air Jordan original xi 11, Nike Air Jordan xi, Nike
Air
http://www.netfashion2008.cn
wholesale New nike air jordan XI/11 shoes/nike shoes/air jordan
shoes/
nike
http://www.netfashion2008.cn
wholesale Air Jordan Air Jordan I Air Jordan II Air Jordan III Air
Jordan
(www.netfashion2008.cn)
wholesale Nike, Jordan XI Basketball Shoes Review in Basketball Shoes
(www.netfashion2008.cn)
wholesale Nike Air Jordan retro 9, Nike Air Jordan retro ix, Nike Air
Jordan retro 9 ix sneakers
(www.netfashion2008.cn)
wholesale Jordan Shoes, Nike Air Jordan XI and IV, Retro Michael
Jordan Shoes Jordan shoes
(www.netfashion2008.cn)
wholesale Nike Air Jordan Retro 13 xiii, Nike Air Jordan 13 retro,
Nike Air
(www.netfashion2008.cn)
wholesale Nike Air Jordan, Nike Air Jordan Retro XI, Nike Air Jordan
shoes
(www.netfashion2008.cn)
wholesale Nike Air Max Jordan 15 Jordan 16 Jordan 17 Jordan 18 Jordan
19 Jordan 20 Jordan 21
(www.netfashion2008.cn)
Jordan 1.5 Dubzero Jordan 5.5 Jordan 21.5
(www.netfashion2008.cn)
)Jordan 3.5 ? Jordan 6.5 ? Jordan 9.5 ? Jordan 17.5. Nike DUNK. DUNK.
Air Force one
(www.netfashion2008.cn)
Wholesale/sell nike air jordan 21/XXI,nike shoes suppliers
(www.netfashion2008.cn)
sell nike air jordan, AF1,dunk,airmax,shox,gucci,timberland,bape
(www.netfashion2008.cn)
sell nike air jordan shoes for low price
(www.netfashion2008.cn)
CHINA wholesale Nike Jordan, Air Force 1,Dunk
(www.netfashion2008.cn)
Sell Nike Shoes,Nike Air Jordan Shoes
(www.netfashion2008.cn)
Sell nike , air jordan, Af1,bape,prada,dunk,evisu jeans,coatsNike
Shox
TL III, Shox (www.netfashion2008.cn)
(www.netfashion2008.cn)
NZ, Shox TL 123, Shox 2:40 2:45, Shox
nike jordan, air max, nike shox, nike tn, nike rival, nike
(www. cheapestsell . com)
(www.netfashion2008.cn)
nike shoes, nike air max, air max 95, air max 97, airmax 2003
(www.netfashion2008.cn)nike shox, nike shox shoes, nike shox
basketball
shoes, nike shox
(www.netfashion2008.cn) nike shox tl/tl2 /tl3 shoes with aaa grade,low
price
(www.netfashion2008.cn)nike shox - Offers for nike shox - exporters,
manufacturers
(www.netfashion2008.cn) nike air force one, nike shoes, nike shox,
nike
air, nike dunks
(www.netfashion2008.cn) trainer shoes - Offers for trainer shoes -
exporters
(www.netfashion2008.cn) Sell and buy nike shoes online trade lead,
nike
shoes wholesaler
(www.netfashion2008.cn)wholesale Nike Shoes, Nike air force one 1,
nike
air force ones, nike air forces
(www.netfashion2008.cn) Nike air jordan air jordans, Nike basketball
shoes,
nike sneakers, air jordan shoes, jordan sneaker
(www. cheapestsell . com)wholesale NIKE Sneakers | Air Jordan Sneakers
|
AIR
FORCE ONE 1S | Nike
(www.netfashion2008.cn) wholesale Nike Air Force 1, Nike Air Force 1
Low,
Nike Air Force 1 One white
(www.netfashion2008.cn)wholesale Sell and buy nike shoes online trade
lead,
nike shoes wholesaler
(www.netfashion2008.cn) Sell Nike Jordans, Air Maxes, and Clears
Locally
and Online!
(www.netfashion2008.cn)wholesale Nike Air Max, Nike Air Max 360, Nike
Air
Max 90, Nike
(www.netfashion2008.cn)wholesale Nike Air Force 1, Nike Air Force 1
Low,
Nike Air Force 1 One white
(www.netfashion2008.cn) wholesale nike air force one, af1 shoes, nike
jordan shoes, athletic shoes
(www.netfashion2008.cn) wholesale Nike Shoes, Nike air force one 1 one
shoes, air jordans, air force
(www.netfashion2008.cn) Air Force - Buying Leads for Air Force -
Buyers,
Importers
Nike Air Force One (AF1) Low
nike air force one - Offers for nike air force one - exporters
Wholesale AAA quality Nike Air Force one boot, nike, jordan
Factory Wholesale Suppliers Nike Air Force one
Hot sell nike air force one boot
Factory Wholesale Suppliers Nike Air Force Ones and Jordans
Buy Jordan Shoes Nike Air Force One Clear Shoes (United States)
Sell Bape Hoodies , Polo , Lacoste ,New styles , wholesale ! clear
(www.netfashion2008.cn) sell new type jordan,air force one,bape
(www.netfashion2008.cn)Sell nike shoes clear air jordan 1 onsale Sell
nike
shoes supply AAA quality sport shoes at lowest price
(www.netfashion2008.cn) sell nike ,jordan sport shoes

(www.netfashion2008.cn) sell nike jordan,nike shox,nike air force
one,nike
air max shoes
(www.netfashion2008.cn)buy sell jordan shoes|nike tn|shox|dunk|Puma|
air
max|
air froce 1
(www.netfashion2008.cn)wholesale nike air jordan xxi.v, sell nike air
jordan 21.5, sell nike
(www.netfashion2008.cn)sell nike shoes,air jordan,Air Force One
(www.netfashion2008.cn)sell nike jordan,sports shoes, air force
one.nike
shox, women
(www.netfashion2008.cn) sell Nike shoes,air Jordan,air force one,,bape
hoodies low price
(www.netfashion2008.cn) Air Force Ones Wholesale Nike Factory
Suppliers
low
price
(www.netfashion2008.cn) nike shoes air force one af1 clear hot selling
low
price
sell nike tn/air force one shoes
(www.netfashion2008.cn) nike air force one Manufacturer, Buyer,
Supplier
(www.netfashion2008.cn) Wholesale Nike Air Force One Shoes
(www.netfashion2008.cn)Sell Jordans and Nike Air Force Ones Wholesale
Authentic Nike
(www.netfashion2008.cn)clear air force ones Manufacturer, Buyer,
Supplier,
Importer
(www.netfashion2008.cn) NIKE Sneakers | Air Jordan Sneakers | AIR
FORCE
ONE
1S | Nike
(www.netfashion2008.cn)Air Force One, Air Force One, Nike Air force
one,
air force one shoes, air force one,
sell Nike Shoes,Dunk,Jordan,Jordan11,Jordan DMP,Air Force 1,Shox
(www.netfashion2008.cn) wholesale Nike Air Force 1, Nike Air Force 1
Low,
Nike Air Force 1 One white -
(www.netfashion2008.cn) Sell air force 1 shoes, wholesale new style
af1
shoes, af1 shoes
(www.netfashion2008.cn)Sell Af1 Shoes Sell Air force one, sell China
Air
force one, Air force one trade
(www.netfashion2008.cn) sell Nike air max Nike shox AF1 Nike dunk
Jordan
Adidas Puma
(www.netfashion2008.cn)sellnikeshoes,china,jordan,tn,shox,timberland,puma,p...,
shoes,nike shoes.
(www.netfashion2008.cn)wholesale Sell Air force one JORDAN , NIKE
SHOES,
air force one, air jordan, max360
(www.netfashion2008.cn)sell nike jordan,sports shoes, air force
one.nike
shox, women
(www.netfashion2008.cn)Nike Air Jordan - Nike Air Jordan 4. Nike shoes
wholesale: Nike Air Jordan 4 men\'s women\'s trainers
(www.netfashion2008.cn)sneakers basketball shoes running shoes. Nike
Air
Jordan 4 cheap discount shoes nike wholesale and sale
to nike shop and nike store from our company.. We also sale and
wholesale nike shoes other styles:nike air max - nike air
Welcome to my website: www.netfashion2008.cn

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cheap Kenneth Cole Ladies Reaction Silver Bracelet Watch KC4440
Wholesale, Replicas, Fake
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9ae3e215a833acf4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 1 2008 4:00 am
From: wholesale002@watches-replicas.com

Cheap Kenneth Cole Ladies Reaction Silver Bracelet Watch KC4440
Wholesale, Replicas, Fake

Kenneth Cole Ladies Reaction Silver Bracelet Watch KC4440 Link :
http://www.watches-replicas.com/kenneth-cole-silver-bracelet-kc4440-5794.html

To Wholesale the cheapest Kenneth Cole Ladies Reaction Silver Bracelet
Watch KC4440 in toppest Replica . www.watches-replicas.com helps you
to save money! kenneth-cole-silver-bracelet-kc4440 , Kenneth Cole
Ladies Reaction Silver Bracelet Watch KC4440 , Replias , Cheap ,
Fake , imitation , Kenneth Cole Watches

Kenneth Cole Ladies Reaction Silver Bracelet Watch KC4440
Information :

Brand : Kenneth Cole Watches (http://www.watches-
replicas.com/kenneth-cole-watches.html )
Gender : Ladies
Code : kenneth-cole-silver-bracelet-kc4440
Item Variations :
Case Material : Stainless steel
Case Diameter : 32mm
Case Thickness :
Dial Color : Silver
Bezel : Stainless steel
Movement : Quartz
Crystal : Mineral
Clasp : Stainless steel
Water Resistant : 30m/100ft

This Kenneth Cole Ladies Reaction Silver Bracelet Watch KC4440 watch
case is made out of Stainless steel. The Silver dial is covered with
Mineral. The case diameter is 32 mm. The Kenneth Cole Ladies Reaction
Silver Bracelet Watch KC4440 is water resistant to 30 m / 99 ft.
Kenneth Cole Ladies Reaction Silver Bracelet Watch KC4440

Kenneth Cole Ladies Reaction Silver Bracelet Watch KC4440 is new brand
replica, join thousands of satisfied customers and buy your Kenneth
Cole Watches with total satisfaction. A Watches-Replicas.COM 30 Day
Money Back Guarantee is included with every Kenneth Cole Watches
Replica Series for secure, risk-free online shopping. Watches-
Replicas.COM does not charge sales tax for the Fake Kenneth Cole
Ladies Reaction Silver Bracelet Watch KC4440.

All of our replica watches are shipped via EMS to worldwide. Normally
it takes 3days to prepare the fake watch you ordered and 5-10days to
transmit depending on the different destination.We pay for the free
shipping cost for total quantity over 20 pcs. The EMS tracking NO.
will be sent by email when an order is shipped from our warehouse. No
more other charges from watch-replicas.com such as the tax. If you
have any other questions please check our other pages or feel free to
email us by wholesale@watches-replicas.com.

The Same Kenneth Cole Watches Series :

Kenneth Cole Ladies Reaction Watch KC2365 :
http://www.watches-replicas.com/kenneth-cole-reaction-women-watch-kc2365-5795.html

Kenneth Cole Ladies Reaction Leather Watch KC4330 :
http://www.watches-replicas.com/kenneth-cole-reaction-woman-watch-kc4330-5796.html

Kenneth Cole Ladies Reaction Leather Watch KC2200 :
http://www.watches-replicas.com/kenneth-cole-reaction-woman-watch-kc2200-5797.html

Kenneth Cole Ladies Reaction White Leather Watch KC2279 :
http://www.watches-replicas.com/kenneth-cole-reaction-white-watch-kc2279-5798.html

Kenneth Cole Ladies Reaction Brown Leather Watch KC2354 :
http://www.watches-replicas.com/kenneth-cole-reaction-brown-watch-kc2354-5799.html

Kenneth Cole Ladies Stainless Steel Pink Leather Watch KC2309 :
http://www.watches-replicas.com/kenneth-cole-pink-leather-watch-kc2309-5800.html

Kenneth Cole Ladies Stainless Steel Pink Leather Watch KC2275 :
http://www.watches-replicas.com/kenneth-cole-pink-leather-watch-kc2275-5801.html

Kenneth Cole Men's Multi-Function Stainless Steel Watch KC3587 :
http://www.watches-replicas.com/kenneth-cole-multi-function-watch-kc3587-5802.html

Kenneth Cole Men's Reaction Multi-Function Watch KC1369 :
http://www.watches-replicas.com/kenneth-cole-multi-function-watch-kc1369-5803.html

Kenneth Cole Men's Multi-Function Brown Leather Watch KC1359 :
http://www.watches-replicas.com/kenneth-cole-multi-function-watch-kc1359-5804.html

Cheap Kenneth Cole Ladies Reaction Silver Bracelet Watch KC4440
Wholesale, Replicas, Fake

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cheap Seiko Dress Steel Blue Mens Watch SNF661 Wholesale, Replicas,
Fake
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5887e53cf556a102?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 1 2008 4:00 am
From: wholesale002@watches-replicas.com

Cheap Seiko Dress Steel Blue Mens Watch SNF661 Wholesale, Replicas,
Fake

Seiko Dress Steel Blue Mens Watch SNF661 Link :
http://www.watches-replicas.com/Seiko-Dress-Mens-Watch-SNF661-6272.html

To Wholesale the cheapest Seiko Dress Steel Blue Mens Watch SNF661 in
toppest Replica . www.watches-replicas.com helps you to save money!
Seiko-Dress-Mens-Watch-SNF661 , Seiko Dress Steel Blue Mens Watch
SNF661 , Replias , Cheap , Fake , imitation , Seiko Watches

Seiko Dress Steel Blue Mens Watch SNF661 Information :

Brand : Seiko Watches (http://www.watches-replicas.com/seiko-
watches.html )
Gender : Mens
Code : Seiko-Dress-Mens-Watch-SNF661
Item Variations : SNF661, SNF661-1, SNF661-P1, SNF661P1,
Seiko-SNF661, Seiko-SNF661-1
Case Material : Stainless Steel
Case Diameter : 36mm
Case Thickness :
Dial Color : Blue
Bezel : Fixed
Movement : Quartz
Crystal : Hardlex
Clasp : Stainless Steel
Water Resistant : 30m/100ft

Stainless steel case and bracelet. Blue dial. Silver-tone hands and
hour markers. Hardlex crystal. Push button deployment clasp. Case
diameter 39mm. Case thickness 7mm. Quartz movement. Water resistant at
30 meters (100 feet). Alternate Model Numbers: SNF661, SNF661P1,
SNF661P-1. Seiko Dress Steel Blue Mens Watch SNF661

Seiko Dress Steel Blue Mens Watch SNF661 is new brand replica, join
thousands of satisfied customers and buy your Seiko Watches with total
satisfaction. A Watches-Replicas.COM 30 Day Money Back Guarantee is
included with every Seiko Watches Replica Series for secure, risk-free
online shopping. Watches-Replicas.COM does not charge sales tax for
the Fake Seiko Dress Steel Blue Mens Watch SNF661.

The Same Seiko Watches Series :

Seiko Dress Steel Black Strap Ladies Watch SUJD79 :
http://www.watches-replicas.com/Seiko-Dress-Womens-Watch-SUJD79-6273.html

Seiko Dress Gold-Tone Steel Burgundy Leather Ladies Watch SXD788 :
http://www.watches-replicas.com/Seiko-Dress-Womens-Watch-SXD788-6274.html

Seiko Dress Steel Burgundy Leather Mens Watch SPA003 :
http://www.watches-replicas.com/Seiko-Dress-Date-men-Watch-SPA003-6275.html

Seiko Dress Steel Black Leather Mens Watch SPA001 :
http://www.watches-replicas.com/Seiko-Dress-Date-Mens-Watch-SPA001-6276.html

Seiko Dress Gold-Tone Steel Brown Leather Mens Watch SPA004 :
http://www.watches-replicas.com/Seiko-Dress-Date-Mens-Watch-SPA004-6277.html

Seiko Dress Gold-Tone Steel White Ladies Watch SXB388 :
http://www.watches-replicas.com/Seiko-Dress-Womens-Watch-SXB388-6278.html

Seiko Dress Steel Black Ladies Watch SXH055 :
http://www.watches-replicas.com/Seiko-Dress-Womens-Watch-SXH055-6279.html

Seiko Skinny White Leather Double Buckle Ladies Watch SXH049 :
http://www.watches-replicas.com/Seiko-womens-watch-SXH049-6280.html

Seiko Dress Gold-Tone Steel Brown Leather Mens Watch SKP304 :
http://www.watches-replicas.com/Seiko-Dress-Mens-Watch-SKP304-6281.html

Seiko Dress Steel Black Mens Watch SKK629 :
http://www.watches-replicas.com/Seiko-Dress-Mens-Watch-SKK629-6282.html

Cheap Seiko Dress Steel Blue Mens Watch SNF661 Wholesale, Replicas,
Fake

==============================================================================
TOPIC: www.voguesonline.net wholesale gucci prada chanel handbags & purse,
cheap nike air jordans 1-23 shoes
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4f0bc4c4ef831e0e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 1 2008 4:13 am
From: cnsneakers93@yahoo.com.cn

( WWW.voguesonline.NET ) china wholesale,discounted jordans
sneakers,Nike Gucci Prada Dsquared China Wholesale cheap Nike Air
Jordans Shoes Sneakers
25 Years of Air Force Ones anniversary adidas sneakers china
wholesale ... sunglasses belt sneakers shoes china online and
wholesale Tiffany Watches ...
China Wholesale Nike Jordans AF1 Shoes cheap Gucci Prada Dsquared D&G
Sneakers ... bape lrg clh jeans hoodies shoes sneakers
wholesale,jordans and nike from china ...

Gucci Prada Nikes Jordans Lacoste Puma lv Shoes sneakers trainers
handbags china wholesale outlet gucci prada lv chanel handbags & purse
china wholesale. coach chloe bags china supplers www.voguesonline.net
china cheap wholesale nikes shoes,cheap custom dunks,wholesale jordan
sneakers,jordan gucci prada lacoste bapesta NIKE SHOES,puma shoes
wholesale,free nike, ... www.voguesonline.net
cheap china nike sneakers wholesale factory ... wholesale gucci
sneaker for women. cheap wholesale jordan. china custom jordans ...

Air Jordan V x Air Force 1 Fusion
Air Jordan 12 x Air Force Ones Fusion
Nike AF1 x Air Jordan 23 fusion shoes at cheap price.
Nike Air Force Ones Shoes & Air Jordan 5 at www.voguesonline.net
wholesale Air Jordan 5 (V) x Air Force 1 Fusion

==============================================================================
TOPIC: eyeglasses
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/704f1c7f43520862?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 1 2008 5:28 am
From: "Stormin Mormon"

You might get a better price at Zenni Optical. On the web. They have an
office in California, but the eye glasses are shipped from Hong Kong. Click
in your prescription, and the eye glasses arrive in a couple weeks. Worked
for me.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus

www.lds.org
.

"Terryc" <newsfourspam-spam@woa.com.au> wrote in message
news:fqknsr$43p$1@aioe.org...
Snowbound wrote:

> Well, you could squint a lot. Think Clint Eastwood.

My thoughts were that if I could source lenses, then I could copy the
prescription. I have my eyes checked almost quarterly. it is just that
from day to day focal lengths change,so rather than spend $1,000+ on a
board of eye glasses to cater, I was wonderig if I could roll my own so
to speak.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 1 2008 5:28 am
From: "Stormin Mormon"

The folks at rec.crafts.metalworking have raved about them.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus

www.lds.org
.

"Terryc" <newsfourspam-spam@woa.com.au> wrote in message
news:fqnecf$1hg$3@aioe.org...
Jim Prescott wrote:

> www.zennioptical.com sells complete prescription eyeglasses for as little
> as $8. You could order several each with its own prescription. With
> multiples of the same frame you could even mix and match.

At that price, worth checking out. Thanks.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: gasoline powered water pump wanted (Michigan)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/19ae2e17652162db?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 1 2008 5:30 am
From: "Stormin Mormon"

What have you tried so far? How about your local fire protection supply
house? Or, check a Google shopping search. For cheap, Harbor Freight has
some gasoline power water pumps.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus

www.lds.org
.

<wildfireprotector@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:43911fe0-f836-4966-90ce-595715379a8c@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
must be at least 200 gpm

email: wildfireprotector@yahoo.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Reality of JESUS
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e1cbd9432ad1267e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 1 2008 5:35 am
From: "Stormin Mormon"

And he's an electrician. He went ohm to his Father in Heaven.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus

www.lds.org
.

"Calum" <com.gmail@scottishwildcat.nospam> wrote in message
news:fshdqg$qh9$1@reader01.news.esat.net...
Stormin Mormon wrote:
> And he drove a Honda. His disciples were all of one Accord.

But he rode in Triumph into Jerusalem.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 1 2008 7:00 am
From: Bussy Hoponhopoff

On 1 Apr, 14:35, "Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> And he's an electrician. He went ohm to his Father in Heaven.
>
> --
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
>

www.lds.org
> .
>
> "Calum" <com.gm...@scottishwildcat.nospam> wrote in message
>
> news:fshdqg$qh9$1@reader01.news.esat.net...
>
> Stormin Mormon wrote:
> > And he drove a Honda. His disciples were all of one Accord.
>
> But he rode in Triumph into Jerusalem.

I heard he got nailed with Tax and went into hiding....

==============================================================================
TOPIC: YOU MUST KNOW THIS MAN
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/06f3de4f97ec1f1e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 1 2008 5:39 am
From: "Stormin Mormon"

Who?

I sense that's not the only way by which we may be saved in the Kingdom of
Heaven.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus

www.lds.org
.

<happy_life0011@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9d667b58-1b86-4e99-b810-92c99bbd8a1c@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
In The Name Of Allaah,

Most Gracious, Most Merciful

YOU MUST KNOW THIS MAN
MUHAMMAD

No matter what you
are, and no matter what your religious and political beliefs, personal
and social habits happen to be - YOU MUST STILL KNOW THIS MAN!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: recommendation for a low-flow shower head?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b6f014ac8b678b31?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 1 2008 5:43 am
From: Joe

My water bill just was increased about 30% so I'm thinking I need to
install low-flow showerheads. Can anyone recommend a decent brand that
won't have me end with flat hair?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Fat free food
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/36b96fb922a4b878?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 1 2008 6:05 am
From: Santhosh1992

Recipe for those who are in diet.low calorie,
no need to cook,no fat,suitable for all age groups
please visit
http://recipeforthosewhoareindiet.blogspot.com/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: EARN DAILY WITHOUT ANY INVESTMENT BY SPENDING ONLY 30MIN/DAY!!!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/baa155bc032c7706?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 1 2008 6:44 am
From: makemoney

HI,
This is vasanth and i am working online and at present earning upto
200$ per month by spending only about an hour per day. U can also do
it.
There is no need of any investment or qualification. Its absolutely
free.
The process is very much simple. first, register urself in the
following link...

http://www.ipaydaily.com/index.php?vasa456

a referral link which will be given to u after your registeration
then ask ur friends to register by that link.... u will get 1.5$ for
every registeration...
u r given 2 levels of earning and u ll get the payment when u receive
15$.... U can also reinvest the earnings to earn more....

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 19usd wholesale nike shoes (air max87 90 shox r3 r4 tn ltd air jordan 1-
17)Your satisfactions,Our pursuit!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/bed287d22e2b4017?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 1 2008 6:57 am
From: yuww20@gmail.com

19usd wholesale nike shoes (air max87 90 shox r3 r4 tn ltd air jordan
1-17)Your satisfactions,Our pursuit!
(www.ec231-silkonroad.cn)

www.ec231-silkonroad.cn
Silkonroad Co.,LTD greets and desires of success and wishes you
happy times.
This is professional export company from china who carry PAYPAL
payment and DROPSHIP .
We greated in 2007 year ,and now we become the one of best supplier
here because of we keep our credit standing .
Pls visit our site if u are interest in any products below ,
www.ec231-silkonroad.cn

Our main products :
Fashion shoes:
Air Jordan , Air force , Air max , Shox , Dunk , Adidas , Puma ,
Prada , Chanel , Gucci , Lacoste , LouisVuiton and more .
Fashion Hoodies&T-Shirt&Jeans&Jacket:
Gino Green Globa , Bape , BBC , Evsiu , Juicy couture , Burberry , 10
Deep , LRG , ED Hardy , Chanel , G-Star , Red monkey , lacoste ,
POLO,
Armani ,Replay , Tommy and more.
Fashion bags:
LouisVuiton , Pada , Chanel , Fendi , Versace , Burberry , MIUMIU ,
Y-3 , Gucci ,Chloe , Guess , Juicy and more
Electronic :
IPOD NANO ,
Features:
1) All Package are original ,coming with guarantee cards
2) Main Market : U.S.A . U.K ,ITALY , EURO COUNTRY ,
AUSTRALIA
3) Ship Company : DHL , TNT , UPS , SODIEX , EMS
4) Payment Method : PAYPAL , WESTERN UNION ,T/T .
5) Custom : We carry the custom clear and promise items
must be arrive .
Thanks for your reading , pls mail us if u have any problem
with
the business . We hope that will make a long&great business with you
in future.

Your satisfactions,Our pursuit!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT - Kroger Grocery Stores
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3a6d1db503afb6e6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 1 2006 8:13 am
From: "Lucid"

"rick++" <rick303@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1141227454.275154.280800@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Kroger and other grocers are transitioning from zero-premium,
> zero copay health insurance to one that costs $10 a week.
> And meeting tremendous union opposition. This is still a quarter
> the rate of the average non-union health policy.

The unions need to learn to better choose which battles to fight. Unions
lost much of their relevance and membership during the times when companies
were treating their employees well. Now that the trend is moving toward the
negative, unions need to fight where it is more appropriate and needed. With
so many jobs leaving the country, we are in the midst of a major shift in
the economy. Most of the rules are changing. Those who will survive are
analyzing the trends and making adjustments right now.

>Walmart which has very modest health insurance is justing walking all over
>the union grocery stores.

Wal-Mart has very POOR health insurance and is making its profits partially
via poor treatment of its employees. Their low prices are attractive to the
consumer, but more and more consumers are considering the real cost of those
low prices. I can respect a company that makes its profits by running a
fiscally tight operation, but Wal-Mart seems to have some business ethics
issues that are quite disturbing.

The successful competition for Wal-Mart, in our local area, are the somewhat
upscale markets who sell things like good quality produce. Our Wal-Mart has
very poor quality produce, and that leaves a major opening for customers
like me who were forced to drive long distances to stores like Whole Foods
in order to get decent produce (at premium prices). Other areas like the
deli are open for competition as well. As long as your diet is primarily
deep-fried, Wal-Mart's deli is fine, but if you want something even slightly
above that, you've got to go somewhere else. Having low prices on items that
everybody buys is great, but sometimes customers want a little more. A
grocery store in our town saw that reality and built their market right next
to a Wal-Mart. The parking lot at the new store is so full that people have
to park at Wal-Mart and walk to the other store.

Luc

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Drug Prices Rise Under Medicare Plan
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/81fe71fba0747b48?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 1 2006 8:43 am
From: "Peanutjake"

Drug Prices Rise Under US Medicare Plan

By Susan Heavey

WASHINGTON (Reuters) Feb 22 - Prices for some of the most popular medicines
used by seniors have jumped an average of 4 percent under the new Medicare
drug benefit since it began last month, according to a report released on
Tuesday.

The report, released by the Democratic staff of the House of Representatives
Government Reform Committee, found prices for Pfizer Inc.'s pain reliever
Celebrex, Merck Inc.'s cholesterol drug Zocor and eight other top drugs
offered by 10 major plans rose during the controversial program's first
seven weeks.

In some cases, drug prices rose 10 percent, it also found.

The report looked at plans offered by Aetna Inc., Humana Inc., Medco Health
Solutions Inc. and senior consumer group AARP, which offers its plan with
UnitedHealth Group Inc.

"The private insurers offering the new Medicare drug plans are not providing
seniors and individuals with disabilities with low drug prices," it said,
adding the rise outpaced inflation as well as drug price increases found via
drugstore.com and in Canada.

Under the voluntary program, Medicare's elderly and disabled beneficiaries
can choose from dozens of plans offered by health insurers and others that
administer health care plans called pharmacy benefit managers.

Industry groups and Medicare officials have said that allowing private
companies to provide the benefit, rather than the government, gives
consumers more choices and helps lower prices through competition.

Those who sign up pay a portion of their drug costs as well as monthly fees
that are waived for low-income participants.

Medicare spokesman Peter Ashkenaz dismissed the findings, citing rising
wholesale prices and other factors. "The increase that we saw doesn't
reflect any response to the new Medicare program," he said.

Pharmaceutical Care Management Association spokesman Phil Blando, whose
group represents pharmacy benefit managers, criticized the report for
excluding generic drugs as well as those available through mail order, which
some plans offer.

He said benefit managers were "doing their part" to negotiate lower prices
from drug makers. Earlier this month, his group found prices under the
Medicare plan were 35 percent lower than retail.

Tuesday's report found Caremark Rx Inc.'s Silverscript Plus plan raised
prices 10.2 percent. Under Humana's Standard PDP plan, prices rose 3
percent, while they rose 4 percent under AARP's Medicare Rx plan.

Of the 10 plans reviewed, Avantra's RX Premier plan was the only one to cut
prices, an average of 1.1 percent.

A second report, also released by committee Democrats, found current prices
offered by plans are higher than those offered during the last two years
with Medicare's temporary drug cards.

Representatives for the plans did not have immediate comment.

California Democrat Rep. Henry Waxman, who requested the reports, said the
findings show prices are too high under the benefit.

"The Medicare drug bill was written to enrich the drug companies, not to
provide seniors with a cost-effective new benefit," said Waxman, who has
also requested a congressional investigation into drug company profits from
the program.

Some consumer groups were also stung by the findings.

"It's just wrong that somebody who takes the trouble to compare the prices
of the various plans...and signs up for a plan, then finds out when they
show up at the pharmacy that the prices are different," said Paul Precht,
policy director for the Medicare Rights Center.

Patients can switch plans once a year. There is no limit on companies'
ability to change prices.

Both reports come as the Bush administration aims to get Medicare's 42
million beneficiaries to sign up for the program. So far, 3.6 million have
joined voluntarily while about 20 million were enrolled automatically from
other programs.

On Wednesday, Health and Human Services Secretary Mike Leavitt is expected
to release new enrollment figures.

==============================================================================

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "misc.consumers.frugal-living"
group.

To post to this group, visit http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to misc.consumers.frugal-living-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

To change the way you get mail from this group, visit:
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/subscribe?hl=en

To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to abuse@googlegroups.com

==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com?hl=en

Frugal Living

Blog Archive

Tuesday, April 1, 2008

24 new messages in 16 topics - digest

No comments: