Frugal Living: 18 new messages in 8 topics

Sunday, July 13, 2008

18 new messages in 8 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Surviving high heating oil prices
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a184bef53e828bc7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 4:15 pm
From: nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu

krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

>The air gap adds R-value. The foil adds nothing to the
>heat conduction. Foils is METAL, which is a CONDUCTOR.

Foils ARE metal... :-)

Nick

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 4:17 pm
From: nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu

Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:

>Is it possible that it adds indirectly, by serving as a vapor barrier
>so that the outward space stays drier and this is a better insulator?

No. The foil lowers emissivity and radiation. That's basic physics.

Nick

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 8:17 pm
From: krw

In article <MPG.22e2e3d2e793909198b71e@news.individual.net>,
the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm says...
> Sat, 12 Jul 2008 09:32:50 -0400 from krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzz>:
> > In article <g5a6po$jf6@acadia.ece.villanova.edu>,
> > nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu says...
> > > With an air gap, the foil adds a real R-value.
> >
> > Nonsense. The air gap adds R-value. The foil adds nothing to the
> > heat conduction. Foils is METAL, which is a CONDUCTOR.
>
> Is it possible that it adds indirectly, by serving as a vapor barrier
> so that the outward space stays drier and this is a better insulator?

If you read back, I said that foild will help by REFLECTING radiated
heat. It doesn't do squat for the 'R' value, however, because that
is a measure of CONDUCTED heat.

--
Keith

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 8:18 pm
From: krw

In article <g5bdv2$jh6@acadia.ece.villanova.edu>,
nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu says...
> krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
>
> >The air gap adds R-value. The foil adds nothing to the
> >heat conduction. Foils is METAL, which is a CONDUCTOR.
>
> Foils ARE metal... :-)

Foil is too metal. ;-)

--
Keith

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Spacing Trips to the Grocery Store?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9e5316c7228e6cd4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 3:33 pm
From: clams_casino

Dave wrote:

>
>But if you need milk, many convenience stores actually sell gallons of
>milk CHEAPER than supermarkets
>
>On a side note, where I'm living now, I could easily walk to a
>convenience store that carries milk for $1.99 per gallon. -Dave
>
>

I haven't bought a gallon of milk from a major grocer in years. I'll
pick up a gallon at Aldi's if I'm in need during that run or from a
local gas/convenience station (Cumberland Farms / Gulf) that is
currently selling a gallon at $2.79 vs. the $4+ at the major grocers.
I'll gladly walk into the convenience store when I'm fueling to save
$1-1.50 (or even stop in, providing I'm driving by) . Outside of the
gas / milk, however, I'm not sure there is anything else worthwhile at
the convenience store. I'm convinced they are primarily in business to
sell cigarettes & lottery tickets.

== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 4:41 pm
From: "Lou"

"Jonathan Grobe" <grobe@netins.net> wrote in message
news:slrng7i3sk.h8s.grobe@worf.netins.net...
> Since I live several miles from the nearest grocery
> store and since gas prices are rapidly increasing, I
> have been thinking I should increase the time between
> trips to the grocery store. The problem is perishables.
> While some can be frozen, others can't.
>
> Any thoughts on the longest interval one should have
> between trips? (For me it looks like milk would be
> the determining factor).

Milk can be frozen and later thawed for use. The shelf life of perishables
might determine how often you have to go to the store, but the shelf life of
milk is unlikely to be the determining factor.

== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 5:37 pm
From: AL

Lou wrote:
> "Jonathan Grobe" <grobe@netins.net> wrote in message
> news:slrng7i3sk.h8s.grobe@worf.netins.net...
>> Since I live several miles from the nearest grocery
>> store and since gas prices are rapidly increasing, I
>> have been thinking I should increase the time between
>> trips to the grocery store. The problem is perishables.
>> While some can be frozen, others can't.
>>
>> Any thoughts on the longest interval one should have
>> between trips? (For me it looks like milk would be
>> the determining factor).
>
> Milk can be frozen and later thawed for use. The shelf life of perishables
> might determine how often you have to go to the store, but the shelf life of
> milk is unlikely to be the determining factor.
>
>

Or try

http://www.aseptic.org/Packaging%20for%20a%20Healthy%20Lifestyle.shtml

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 7:13 pm
From: "catalpa"

"Dave" <noway@nohow.not> wrote in message
news:20080712174743.6d69a2e0.noway@nohow.not...
> On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 20:09:56 +0000 (UTC)
> Jonathan Grobe <grobe@netins.net> wrote:
>
>> Since I live several miles from the nearest grocery
>> store and since gas prices are rapidly increasing, I
>> have been thinking I should increase the time between
>> trips to the grocery store. The problem is perishables.
>> While some can be frozen, others can't.
>>
>> Any thoughts on the longest interval one should have
>> between trips? (For me it looks like milk would be
>> the determining factor).
>>
>> What is you policy on this? What are you freezing because
>> of the freshness problem...
>>
>
> While gas was still cheap, I was living over 30 miles from the nearest
> supermarket. And I HATE grocery shopping. I managed just fine with
> grocery shopping every other week. But I had given up drinking milk
> years before then. I can't stomach milk now, it makes me ill.
>
> But if you need milk, many convenience stores actually sell gallons of
> milk CHEAPER than supermarkets, hoping you will stop there for cheap
> milk and load up on lots of over-priced convenience items while you are
> buying the cheap milk. My point? You should check the local
> convenience stores to see if you can get your milk there. If so, then
> two weeks between grocery shopping is easily done. But, obviously, you
> have to be careful in making your list before you leave home.
>
> On a side note, where I'm living now, I could easily walk to a
> convenience store that carries milk for $1.99 per gallon. -Dave

Where do you live that milk is only $1.99 a gallon?

Here in PA state minimum price is $4.10 a gallon.

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 7:10 pm
From: "JonquilJan"

Jonathan Grobe <grobe@netins.net> wrote in message
news:slrng7i3sk.h8s.grobe@worf.netins.net...
> Since I live several miles from the nearest grocery
> store and since gas prices are rapidly increasing, I
> have been thinking I should increase the time between
> trips to the grocery store. The problem is perishables.
> While some can be frozen, others can't.
>
> Any thoughts on the longest interval one should have
> between trips? (For me it looks like milk would be
> the determining factor).
>
> What is you policy on this? What are you freezing because
> of the freshness problem...
>
> --
> Jonathan Grobe Books
> Browse our inventory of thousands of used books at:
> http://www.grobebooks.com
>

Milk is available in aseptic (shelf stable) packaging. You might have to
travel to a natural foods store to find it though. You could stock up on
that and only use it when the other (must be refrigerated) type runs out.
Horizon and Organic Valley are the two brands that come to mind. I'm sure
there arfe others.

I don't drink milk any more (adult onset lactose sensitivity) so not sure
about the availability - other than the food buying co-operative I belong
to. Check unitedbuyingclubs.com to see if there is a group in your area
if you're interested.

Or you could get a goat.

JonquilJan

Learn something new every day
As long as you are learning, you are living
When you stop learning, you start dying

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 8:50 pm
From: unow@example.com

Sometimes powdered milk is cheaper then liquid milk.

On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 23:41:07 GMT, in misc.consumers.frugal-living "Lou"
<lpogoda@verizon.net> wrote:

>
>"Jonathan Grobe" <grobe@netins.net> wrote in message
>news:slrng7i3sk.h8s.grobe@worf.netins.net...
>> Since I live several miles from the nearest grocery
>> store and since gas prices are rapidly increasing, I
>> have been thinking I should increase the time between
>> trips to the grocery store. The problem is perishables.
>> While some can be frozen, others can't.
>>
>> Any thoughts on the longest interval one should have
>> between trips? (For me it looks like milk would be
>> the determining factor).
>
>Milk can be frozen and later thawed for use. The shelf life of perishables
>might determine how often you have to go to the store, but the shelf life of
>milk is unlikely to be the determining factor.
>

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 9:06 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

unow@example.com wrote:

> Sometimes powdered milk is cheaper then liquid milk.

Few prefer powdered milk to real milk when they have a choice tho.
>
>
> On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 23:41:07 GMT, in misc.consumers.frugal-living
> "Lou" <lpogoda@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> "Jonathan Grobe" <grobe@netins.net> wrote in message
>> news:slrng7i3sk.h8s.grobe@worf.netins.net...
>>> Since I live several miles from the nearest grocery
>>> store and since gas prices are rapidly increasing, I
>>> have been thinking I should increase the time between
>>> trips to the grocery store. The problem is perishables.
>>> While some can be frozen, others can't.
>>>
>>> Any thoughts on the longest interval one should have
>>> between trips? (For me it looks like milk would be
>>> the determining factor).
>>
>> Milk can be frozen and later thawed for use. The shelf life of
>> perishables might determine how often you have to go to the store,
>> but the shelf life of milk is unlikely to be the determining factor.

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 2:59 pm
From: Neon John

On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 20:09:56 +0000 (UTC), Jonathan Grobe <grobe@netins.net>
wrote:

>Since I live several miles from the nearest grocery
>store and since gas prices are rapidly increasing, I
>have been thinking I should increase the time between
>trips to the grocery store. The problem is perishables.
>While some can be frozen, others can't.
>
>Any thoughts on the longest interval one should have
>between trips? (For me it looks like milk would be
>the determining factor).
>
>What is you policy on this? What are you freezing because
>of the freshness problem...

Almost 30 miles and over an hour to the nearest store for me. I go once a
month. I have three freezers and two refrigerators. I've tuned the
refrigerators to operate almost exactly at 32 degrees. Produce and bread
lasts twice as long at that temperature than the more usual 40-45 deg.

Milk's my biggest problem too. I don't drink the stuff but I make a lot of
ice cream and otherwise cook with it. For non-drinking purposes, milk freezes
fine. It might be OK to drink too - never tried - but it does have a texture
when thawed.

Another avenue that I'm experimenting with is turning powdered milk back into
whole milk by adding butter. I think that it'll be fine for cooking when I
get the amount of butter just right. I haven't tried it for ice cream yet.

Basically, everything that one would normally leave sitting out - bread,
cookies, snacks, etc. goes in the 'fridge. The shelf life extension is
amazing. One of my 'fridges is a chest freezer with the thermostat set to 32
deg. MUCH cheaper to operate than a traditional freezer. One has to be
careful not to let stuff touch the sides, as the refrigerant coils embedded in
the walls still go below freezing during operation. I slide pieces of
cardboard into place at critical points.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources -Albert Einstein

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Free Deep Roots Soap Sample
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/dab53ac977228685?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 4:11 pm
From: "FreebiesPl.us"

Free Deep Roots Soap Sample
http://www.freebiespl.us/index.php/Free%20Samples/37-Free%20Samples/369-free-deep-roots-soap-sample

==============================================================================
TOPIC: You are not frugal if......
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3c5261ec65743940?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 8:02 pm
From: Jeff

Dennis wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 11:48:33 -0700, unow@example.com wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 10:10:13 -0700, in misc.consumers.frugal-living Dennis
>> <dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 17:23:41 -0400, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I wonder if you can tell how much ethanol a particular gas has.
>>>> Ethanol has a lower energy content and 10% Ethanol gives about 3% less
>>>> mileage.
>>> I see about a 5% reduction in mileage on 10% ethanol. 1998 Toyota
>>> Corolla, 1.8L, manual transmission, ~80/20 highway/city.
>>>
>>>
>>> Dennis (evil)
>>
>> I think everything in some states is 10% ethonol now.
>
> It was just mandated for my area at the beginning of this year, so I
> have pretty good before and after data to compare.

The 5% reduction makes sense as the energy content is half. I had
heard 3% perhaps because the can run more advanced in some cars.

What really is your highway mileage, surely not 80!

I might have some money for a replacement car, thinking along the
lines of a Honda Civic HX, if I can find one. That gets 40 + on the
highway. With that kind of mileage I can drive like it's 2007 all over
again!

I don't get this whole ethanol bit, beyond the big Agra boost.
Methanol makes more sense if we have to have some such stuff as it
doesn't boost food costs. Even Bio Diesel makes more sense.

Jeff
>
>
> Dennis (evil)
> --
> What government gives, it must first take away.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Putian City Chengxiang District CiCi Trade Co., Ltd(www.cicitrade.com)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/32d8e7c8f065ee6d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 8:06 pm
From: cicitrade001@yahoo.cn

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: The chickens have arrived
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1b34814faaccbf44?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 10:45 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 09:35:54 -0700, Dennis <dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 07:41:12 -0600, hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 22:16:12 -0500, barbie gee <booger@nosespam.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Wed, 9 Jul 2008, hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>> These aren't your grandfather's chickens. I remember chasing chickens
>>>> when I was only a little larger than them. These aren't what I
>>>> remember. They get pooped after running for a few feet, they can't
>>>> fly more than six inches off the ground, and they huddle when
>>>> stressed.
>>>
>>>I'll bet within 6 weeks they'll be much stronger and spunkier, once given
>>>a little room to move.
>>
>>I think it is more the breeding. The broiler house they came from is
>>huge, about a football field and a half long, and I'd guess about
>>seventy feet wide. The chickens had free run of that entire space.
>
>Yep, some of the meat breeds put on so much weight so fast that their
>legs can barely support them. They just sit most of the time,
>especially if they have feed available without effort.
>
>How's the chicken tractor project coming? My wife recently
>commissioned me to build a new one for one of her flocks. She wanted
>something simple and light enough for her and the kids to move easily.
>I screwed together a couple of 2x2 triangles, 4ft on a side, for the
>ends, then connected the points of the triangles with three 8ft 2x2s.
>Two more 12ft 2x2s attach at middle of the upper sides of the
>triangles to add support and extend past the ends to make carrying
>handles. Then we covered the sides and one end with chicken wire. I
>covered the other end with plywood scraps, hinged for a door.
>Finally, we wrapped a heavy blue tarp across one half to make a
>sun/rain shelter and added a few foraged tree branches across the mid
>(carry handle) 2x2s for roosts.
>
>Cheap, lightweight, easy to build and to move. The clucks seem to
>like it.
>
>
>Dennis (evil)

First tractor - four panels + roof
2x4 treated lumber for base, 2 x3 for rest of frame
2 2x4s with wedge fronts, 2" in from ends, the lap joints to the 2 x
3" x 24" verticals. 24" wide 1/2" metal hardware cloth, stapled all
around. 2x3x92 top frame on sides, 2 x 3 x 40" +- on ends. Roof of
4'x8' sheet of flooring board. When dragging the roof can come off to
limit weight. Roof has a 20" x 48" door for feeding and water.
Hardware cloth stapled to frame, panels screwed together with deck
screws. Cost under $50, probably under $40. Two boxes inside old 18"
cardboard box cubes for nighttime.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: garden fence at right-angle to house
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2b96aa4904acd922?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 10:16 pm
From: mm

On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 17:24:02 -0700, Tim Smith
<reply_in_group@mouse-potato.com> wrote:

>In article <qam7745429mf3og7cjra3rr7kfqj1cn4t6@4ax.com>,
> mm <NOPSAMmm2005@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>> Absolutely. It was also known to and proven by American Indians (long
>> before it was called America). There was a great chief Anohamey
>> among the Chippewa who had three daughters, all of whome were married.
>>
>> It was their custom to sit at night around the campfire, and always
>> Running Lilly would sit with her one boy on a deer skin, Twinkling
>> Star woulld sit with her two boys on a buffalo skin, and Laughing
>> Rabbit would sit with her 3 young bucks on a hippotamus skin.
>>
>> From this they knew that the sons of the squaw on the hippotamus are
>> equal to the sons of the squaws on the other two hides.
>
>It's funnier if it actually matches the Pythagorean Theorem. You want
>the squaw on the hippotamus (not sure what that is...some
>hippopotamus-like animal once found in the Americas?) to equal the sons
>of the squaws on the other two hides, not the sons of her to equal them.

Yeah, I noticed that.

>The way it is usually told is to have the squaw on the hippo hide weigh
>as much as the combined weights of the sons of the squaws, thus making
>the squaw on the hippo hide equal to the sons of the squaws on the other
>two hides.

Hmm. I don't think I heard it that way, which might be the problem.
But maybe I did. Thanks.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: McDonald's free wifi
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f18d134b2385fd64?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 10:46 pm
From: Meghan Noecker

On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 16:55:30 GMT, art.shapiro@unisys.com (Arthur
Shapiro) wrote:

>In article
><1df11318-a381-4607-b022-6a3ae3ec0936@m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
> James <j0069bond@hotmail.com> wrote:
>--> I would just as
>--> soon go to Starbucks or a public library rather than sit amongst a bunch
>--> of noisy kids
>
>But Starbucks, to put it mildly, isn't free. That's both the existing
>T-Mobile and the newly-instituted AT&T Wi-Fi. I understand the latter is free
>for AT&T wireless customers. (I happen to be a pay-per-minute T-Mobile user.)
>

I've used the one at the Starbucks that is inside a Safeway. It was
free.

==============================================================================

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Frugal Living

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Sunday, July 13, 2008

18 new messages in 8 topics - digest

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