Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 10 topics

Monday, July 21, 2008

25 new messages in 10 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal ways
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8e3584c16c404f4e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 21 2008 1:46 pm
From: "Nixon.D"

"h" <tmclone@searchmachine.com> wrote in message
news:g62jps$dq9$1@aioe.org...
>
> "Cindy Hamilton" <angelicapaganelli@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1a6c62ad-bc4f-4d43-9355-7cdf321b4f94@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 19, 3:55 pm, Al Bundy <MSfort...@mcpmail.com> wrote:
>
>> There's no need to use margarine either. I've heard the health claims
>> for butter. I just don't chose to wear it.-
>
>>Well, there's no NEED to do anything but lay down and die. However,
>>most people aren't willing do exercise that option.
>
>>A little butter won't hurt most people.
>
> Well...I suppose you could just stand up and die instead :)
=========================================================

Yep. Eva'body wanna' go to th' Heav'n. No body wanna' go today !!!

McDave
====================================
>
>

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 19 2008 11:41 am
From: clams_casino

Joan F (MI) wrote:

>My dentist told me it was not necessary to use toothpaste, it is the
>brushing that is important.
>

Considering how cheap it is - I bought a 6 oz tube of Colgate Total at
Walmart yesterday for $1 after a $1 off coupon.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: I found natural cures for gout un-frugal
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5e8bd7f7a0ebe36c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 21 2008 2:26 pm
From: Sky

CurlyQue wrote:
>
> Mark Thorson wrote:
> > CurlyQue wrote:
> >> Mark Thorson wrote:
> >>
> >>> Aspirin helps a lot. Advil works even better.
> >>>
> >>> Here's a good page about colchicine:
> >> Alloprurinol works the best and doesn't cost much more then aspirin.
> >
> > I only mentioned colchicine because the original poster
> > asked for a natural cure.
>
> Yes that's correct, however, 'natural' or not, colchicine is nasty stuff
> with far more potential negative side effects then allopurinol and I
> won't go anywhere near it myself.
>
> Curly

Not to mention, colchicine can be toxic with potentially lethal
effects.

Sky, who's no doctor

--
Ultra Ultimate Kitchen Rule - Use the Timer!
Ultimate Kitchen Rule -- Cook's Choice

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 21 2008 2:54 pm
From: "Dimitri"

<tmclone@searchmachine.com> wrote in message
news:babaab0c-d7b1-4bea-b469-e4edef4702cc@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 21, 11:00 am, James <j0069b...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I haven't found any natural cures to be effective. Even if they were
> effective they cost a lot more than cheap generic drugs used for
> effective treatment.
>
> The other benefit to me using cheap drugs is I can enjoy eating what I
> like instead of a very restricted diet.
>
> I'm still looking for an effective natual cure. So far things that
> didn't work for me includes concentrated cherry juice, baking soda,
> meatless diet.

Gout happens when you consume too much protein, fat, alcohol along
with
carbs. Cut the carbs, consume only moderate alcohol, and the gout
will
vanish.

Just where did you get your medical degree - from a cracker jack box?

--
Old Scoundrel

(AKA Dimitri)

http://www.arthritisinsight.com/medical/disease/gout.html

Causes of Gout
This is one of the few types of arthritis where the cause is known. It
results from deposits of needle-like crystals of uric acid in the connective
tissue, joint spaces, or both. Normally this is a byproduct of the breakdown
of purines or waste products in the body. Normally uric acid breaks down in
the blood and is eliminated in urine. When the body increases its production
of uric acid or if the kidneys do not eliminate enough of it from the body,
levels build up. This is called hyperuricemia. Hyperuricemia is not a
disease and is not dangerous. However, if excess uric acid crystals form as
a result of hyperuricemia, gout can develop.

Foods that Cause Gout

Some people may benefit from a reduction of purine rich foods. These include
beer and other alcoholic beverages, anchovies, sardines (in oil), fish roes,
herring, yeast, organ meats (e.g., liver, kidneys), legumes (e.g., dried
beans, peas, and soybeans), meat extracts, consommé, gravies, mushrooms,
spinach, asparagus, cauliflower, and poultry. Weight loss can help reduce
uric acid levels in those people that are overweight.

Gout Treatment

Although there is no cure, most people with gout can keep it under control
and lead normal lives. Treatment may consist of one treatment or a
combination of treatments.

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 21 2008 3:55 pm
From: The Real Bev

lisajoe@privacy.net wrote:

>
> If you have gout get Gout Out!

If you've GOT gout get Gout Out. Now.

--
Cheers,
Bev
==================================================================
"I used to be convinced that MicroSquish shipped crap because they
simply didn't give a flying fuck as long as the sheep kept buying
their shit. Now, I'm convinced that they really do ship the best
products they are capable of writing, and *that's* tragic."
- John C. Randolph, about MS quality control.

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 21 2008 4:10 pm
From: Goomba

Sky wrote:

>> Yes that's correct, however, 'natural' or not, colchicine is nasty stuff
>> with far more potential negative side effects then allopurinol and I
>> won't go anywhere near it myself.
>>
>> Curly
>
> Not to mention, colchicine can be toxic with potentially lethal
> effects.
>
> Sky, who's no doctor
>
For those unaware, colchicine and allopurinol work in entirely different
ways. One helps you pass excess uric acid out of your body, and the
other works to block production of uric acid, which explains why some
folks take one medication routinely and the other on an "as needed" basis.
I can't say I've actually ever had a patient with toxicity issues to the
cochicine? We used to dose it until they hit the point of gastric
distress (diarrhea).
I'd personally take allopurinol and colchacine before steroids, if I had
gout.

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 21 2008 7:49 pm
From: "Dimitri"

"Goomba" <Goomba38@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:6ekjb0F7go15U1@mid.individual.net...
> Sky wrote:
>
>>> Yes that's correct, however, 'natural' or not, colchicine is nasty stuff
>>> with far more potential negative side effects then allopurinol and I
>>> won't go anywhere near it myself.
>>>
>>> Curly
>>
>> Not to mention, colchicine can be toxic with potentially lethal
>> effects. Sky, who's no doctor
>>
> For those unaware, colchicine and allopurinol work in entirely different
> ways. One helps you pass excess uric acid out of your body, and the other
> works to block production of uric acid, which explains why some folks take
> one medication routinely and the other on an "as needed" basis.
> I can't say I've actually ever had a patient with toxicity issues to the
> cochicine? We used to dose it until they hit the point of gastric distress
> (diarrhea).
> I'd personally take allopurinol and colchacine before steroids, if I had
> gout.

Yea but 100MG of (banned) VIOXX and the gout was gone the next morning.

The only thing the worked that quick and they pulled it.

CRAP!

--
Old Scoundrel

(AKA Dimitri)

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 21 2008 8:25 pm
From: James

On Jul 21, 10:49 pm, "Dimitri" <Dimitr...@prodigy.net> wrote:
> "Goomba" <Goomb...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> news:6ekjb0F7go15U1@mid.individual.net...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Sky wrote:
>
> >>> Yes that's correct, however, 'natural' or not, colchicine is nasty stuff
> >>> with far more potential negative side effects then allopurinol and I
> >>> won't go anywhere near it myself.
>
> >>> Curly
>
> >> Not to mention, colchicine can be toxic with potentially lethal
> >> effects. Sky, who's no doctor
>
> > For those unaware, colchicine and allopurinol work in entirely different
> > ways. One helps you pass excess uric acid out of your body, and the other
> > works to block production of uric acid, which explains why some folks take
> > one medication routinely and the other on an "as needed" basis.
> > I can't say I've actually ever had a patient with toxicity issues to the
> > cochicine? We used to dose it until they hit the point of gastric distress
> > (diarrhea).
> > I'd personally take allopurinol and colchacine before steroids, if I had
> > gout.
>
> Yea but 100MG of (banned) VIOXX and the gout was gone the next morning.
>
> The only thing the worked that quick and they pulled it.
>
> CRAP!
>
> --
> Old Scoundrel
>
> (AKA Dimitri)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

What about the swelling?

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 21 2008 9:15 pm
From: "Nancy Young"

"Dimitri" <Dimitri_C@prodigy.net> wrote

> Yea but 100MG of (banned) VIOXX and the gout was gone the next morning.
>
> The only thing the worked that quick and they pulled it.
>
> CRAP!

Wasn't that the stuff giving people heart attacks? I'd rather you
deal with the gout than we lose you.

nancy, selfish

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Anti-virus software is used to find, remove or fix files
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/efd2c889556b124c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 21 2008 2:36 pm
From: cakapgold

Anti-virus software is used to find, remove or fix files

http://tipsandtricks.lyricscompilation.com/?p=40
Anti-Virus Software

Anti-virus software is used to find, remove or fix files that are
infected with computer viruses. Most anti-virus companies release
weekly updates of their databases to help keep you safe. Your anti-
virus software uses these weekly updates (also known as virus
signatures or definitions file) to identify newly discovered viruses.

http://tipsandtricks.lyricscompilation.com/?p=40

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 21 2008 5:54 pm
From: clams_casino

cakapgold wrote:

>virus software
>

Cool - virus software that's designed to keep your computer attacked by
all the latest viruses.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Car Depreciation
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5d4818ede437a0f5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 21 2008 2:40 pm
From: Seerialmom

On Jul 21, 1:14 pm, James <jl...@idirect.com> wrote:
> On Jul 21, 3:14 pm, "OhioGuy" <n...@none.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Recently, I made a post regarding whether our house payment could be
> > considered a form of savings. During the discussion, someone brought up
> > making a car payment, and asked if I would consider that savings.
>
> > A number of folks chipped in with their various views. Many of them
> > considered depreciation.
>
> > Well, we have a 1969 Ford Econoline van that I got for $500. We also have
> > a Dodge Caravan (van) that we also paid $500 for. Then we have a 1996 Buick
> > Century that we've had since 2002, when it was given to us as a wedding
> > present.
>
> > So we have a grand total of $1,000 in 3 vehicles. From my point of view,
> > there really isn't a whole lot of depreciation to be had. I do most of the
> > maintenance myself. If we had do, I think we could probably sell these 3
> > vehicles for $3,500 or so. The true value is that each is dependable, well
> > cared for, and is insurance against ever having to make a car payment, or
> > have to take out a car loan.
>
> > Plus, each serves a specific purpose. The older van we bought to go
> > camping. We don't have to set up and take down a tent, and it works out
> > great in colder or wet weather. The newer van is good for medium trips
> > where we want a bit more room. The Buick is best for city driving and long
> > distance driving when it is just 1 or 2 people, and the best mileage is
> > desired.
>
> > For some folks, automobile depreciation isn't much of a financial issue.
> > We only have 2.5% of our annual income invested in our 3 autos. Of course,
> > we will probably put in more money into fixing some things up than might be
> > true with newer vehicles. Plus, it will take more time for maintenance on
> > my part. However, that is essentially a hobby that I enjoy, and something I
> > can do with my son to teach him about tools & such, so I don't consider that
> > a negatived aspect at all.
>
> All cars take a huge hit once they are driven off the lot, and most
> continue to depreciate over time (except some classic cars, which
> start out depreciating, level off then appreciate). Its definately a
> front end loaded process - thats why its good to buy a 2 or 3 year
> old vehcile, because they have already been depreciated a significant
> amoutn, but may still have warranty left.
>
> Once you reach a certain rock bottom, book values become somewhat
> meaningless -unless its a car that you can no longer get easy access
> to parts for.
>
> If you have a good eye you can buy old cars and increase the value,
> but many people try and fail at that game. Many classics are sold for
> less than recent restoration efforts.
>
> North American cars definately have a rock bottom - the price at which
> they are worth more as parts cars/scrap than they are as a running
> vehicle.
>
> James- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I know I've never considered my cars to be investments, always an
expense. However, if you play your cards right that expense can be
minimal. And if it helps you acquire more income, then it's a tool :)

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 21 2008 5:14 pm
From: "Lou"

"Seerialmom" <seerialmom@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6ee3a913-c797-4a64-86fb-b557c6701dbb@l8g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 21, 12:14 pm, "OhioGuy" <n...@none.net> wrote:
>

>Generally when one is considering automotive depreciation they aren't
>talking about an almost free car to begin with. Instead they're
>talking about the car that continues to lose value even though you
>don't own it yet, like the $24K Dodge Charger that will probably be
>worth about $6K by the time it's paid off. Keeping your $500 car
>running can be considered an investment if it allows you to keep your
>$50K a year job.

Where are you drawing the line? ANY car that makes it possible to keep your
job could be considered an investment.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 21 2008 5:19 pm
From: Seerialmom

On Jul 21, 5:14 pm, "Lou" <lpog...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "Seerialmom" <seerial...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:6ee3a913-c797-4a64-86fb-b557c6701dbb@l8g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 21, 12:14 pm, "OhioGuy" <n...@none.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> >Generally when one is considering automotive depreciation they aren't
> >talking about an almost free car to begin with. Instead they're
> >talking about the car that continues to lose value even though you
> >don't own it yet, like the $24K Dodge Charger that will probably be
> >worth about $6K by the time it's paid off. Keeping your $500 car
> >running can be considered an investment if it allows you to keep your
> >$50K a year job.
>
> Where are you drawing the line? ANY car that makes it possible to keep your
> job could be considered an investment.

Is it an investment if you buy a $35K car when you have a $19K a year
job? But if you look at the traditional term "investment" the item
itself appreciates in value, a car does not. In the case mentioned
where the cost outweighs the return, it's not a good investment.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 21 2008 5:21 pm
From: Seerialmom

Try telling that to the folks on Craigslist trying to get $3500+ for
the non-running 62 Dodge Dart sitting in grandpa's barn that hasn't
been on the road since 72. :)

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 21 2008 7:09 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Seerialmom <seerialmom@yahoo.com> wrote
> Lou <lpog...@verizon.net> wrote
>> Seerialmom <seerial...@yahoo.com> wrote
>>> OhioGuy <n...@none.net> wrote

>>> Generally when one is considering automotive depreciation they
>>> aren't talking about an almost free car to begin with. Instead
>>> they're talking about the car that continues to lose value even
>>> though you don't own it yet, like the $24K Dodge Charger that will
>>> probably be worth about $6K by the time it's paid off. Keeping your
>>> $500 car running can be considered an investment if it allows you
>>> to keep your $50K a year job.

>> Where are you drawing the line? ANY car that makes it
>> possible to keep your job could be considered an investment.

> Is it an investment if you buy a $35K car when you have a $19K a year job?

Yes, a bad one.

> But if you look at the traditional term "investment"
> the item itself appreciates in value, a car does not.

Its the total value thats intended to increase over time, not just the value of the car.

> In the case mentioned where the cost outweighs the return, it's not a good investment.

Yes, but its still an investment, albeit a bad one.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 21 2008 8:31 pm
From: timeOday

I am one of those who said equity in a vehicle is akin to savings - but
I never said it was a *good* form of savings :)

NPR recently ran a story about collapsing SUV values. A guy who paid
$72,000(!) for a Cadillac Escalade last year was offered $32,000 for it
at carmax. I think the guy would be a fool to sell at that price, since
I think gas prices are in a speculation bubble right now. Problem is,
the payment is so high he cannot keep up. Check and mate. Repossession
must be tempting for him because the bank would get royally screwed.

Good practical cars (unfortunately for us bargain hunters) don't
depreciate nearly so fast.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Spacing Trips to the Grocery Store?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9e5316c7228e6cd4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 19 2008 11:37 am
From: clams_casino

catalpa wrote:

>
>
>Where do you live that milk is only $1.99 a gallon?
>
>Here in PA state minimum price is $4.10 a gallon.
>
>
>
>
Aldi's here has their whole, 2% & skim at $1.99 / gallon - been that way
since they opened here about 4-5 months ago (don't carry 1%).

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 19 2008 11:38 am
From: clams_casino

Ann wrote:

>On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 16:29:14 +0000, Jonathan Grobe wrote:
>
>
>
>>On 2008-07-15, FarmI <ask@itshall> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>It does have a slightly different flavour than fresh milk, but even so,
>>>I'd have to rate it as far better than powdered milk. Any ideas why it
>>>isn't more popular than powdered?
>>>
>>>
>>What are the costs of regular milk vs UHT vs powdered milk vs condensed
>>milk, etc--comparing them after them after the water has been added...so
>>they are all equivolent say to a gallon of fresh milk?
>>
>>
>
>I just paid $14.28 for a box of nfdm that alleges to make 5 gallons of
>skim milk. I don't know the price of liquid skim milk here.
>
>
>
Skim here (Aldi's - RI) is $1.99/gal.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Now registers the member to bestow 50 integrals! PayPal
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/90fa7947e691813a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 20 2008 5:21 pm
From: The Real Bev

Dan Birchall wrote:

> bashley101+usenet@gmail.com (The Real Bev) wrote:
>> I'm sorry, I know it's evil to repeat spam, but this is one of the best
>> ones I've ever read. I have no idea at all what he's trying to sell and
>> can't even make a guess!
>>
>> cheng wrote:
>>
>> > Now registers the member to bestow 50 integrals! PayPal
>
> Obviously he's selling integrals. Didn't you take calculus? :)

No, I was an English major!

It's probably some sort of code signalling an attack on something.
Perhaps we should turn him in to...uh... What if he's NSA?

--
Cheers,
Bev
-------------------------------------------------------------
"We've got some stupid people out there. This morning, I woke
up in a bathtub filled with ice and I had an extra kidney."

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 20 2008 5:20 pm
From: The Real Bev

Dan Birchall wrote:

No, I was an English major!

It's probably some sort of code signalling an attack on something.
Perhaps we should turn him in to...uh... What if he's NSA?

--
Cheers,
Bev
-------------------------------------------------------------
"We've got some stupid people out there. This morning, I woke
up in a bathtub filled with ice and I had an extra kidney."

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A Call for Reassessment
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b27bb6bbb1d276c7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 21 2008 5:14 pm
From: Al Bundy

af_1...@hotmail.com wrote:
> A Call for Reassessment
>
I just reassessed as of 7/21/08 and it's still the same violent evil
religion that it was.
Thanks.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: china supply coach louis vuitton G U C C I prada dior women's sandals
from china suppliers
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3a63eab53bb53228?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cooling Cost
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2332fd61c54eaee9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 21 2008 6:19 pm
From: Vic Smith

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 11:46:33 -0700 (PDT), James
<j0069bond@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Overnight lows are usually around 70 even after 90+ highs where I
>live.
>
>I had the window fan on for 14 hours consumed 70Kw. Had the AC on 1
>hour for 40 to 50Kw. One hour of AC didn't lower the temperature but
>took moisture out of the air. It was pretty humid overnight and I was
>able to lower the house from 82 to 76 after 14 hours.
>
>The night before I had the AC on instead and that took 240Kw.
>
>Based on this one observation it seems cheaper to use window fan at
>night to cool my house.

If you stick you hand outside and find the air considerably cooler
than inside the house, fans will usually suffice.
Some people never open a window and run their A/C 24/7.
Wasteful, except they save the physical effort of effort of checking
the temp, and opening/closing windows.
This is aside from the humidity issue you mentioned.
Some claim allergies of course.

--Vic

==============================================================================
TOPIC: UPDATED: FAMILY GENEALOGY and HISTORY INTERNET EDUCATION DIRECTORY
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8031bb52b837db4c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 21 2008 7:28 pm
From: family-living

UPDATED: FAMILY GENEALOGY and HISTORY
INTERNET EDUCATION DIRECTORY
Professional worldwide humanities and social sciences mega portal,
connected directly to numerously related sub-sets, with billions of
primary or secondary database family history and genealogy records.
URL: http://www.academic-genealogy.com/
.
Within the last few weeks, a review was made
in Salt Lake City, Utah, at the LDS Family
History Library, of every link posted
on their internal computer systems, to
verify as fact that our web site is indeed:
"The most comprehensive Genealogy
and Family History online Handbook,
How-To-Guide and Manual." Quality of
research resources is assured by the
inclusion of links from study guides,
from major institutions of the world.
http://groups.google.com/group/Family-Genealogy-and-History-Internet-Education-Directory/web/family-genealogy-and-history-internet-education-directory?hl=en
.
ADD and SUBMIT URL: URI and Uniform
Resource Locator (URL)
http://www.academic-genealogy.com/genealogywebmasters.htm#submit
is worldwide in scope; not for an inclusion
in this web site alone, (which is a process
restricted to private Email correspondence).
Editing all changes to the core base
of information and link sites is done
professionally, before being posted online.
Every page of this web site has at
the bottom, an Email: vctinney@sbcglobal.net
.
GENEALOGY WEBMASTER TOOLS:
http://www.academic-genealogy.com/genealogywebmasters.htm#tools
Now includes: * digitalresearchtools
Collects information about tools and resources
that can help scholars (particularly in the humanities
and social sciences) conduct research.
The Digital Research Tools team currently
includes academic librarians with expertise
in the humanities, science, and business.
.
REFERENCE:
Genealogy Online by Elizabeth Powell Crowe
http://www.epcrowe.com/2.html
Reference - 2008 - 426 pages says:
"A good listing of both resources and education
in genealogy, and a site that was quite up to
date as of this writing, is at
www.academic-genealogy.com . . ."
.
SEARCH:
Family Genealogy and History Internet Education Directory
http://www.academic-genealogy.com/searchthissite.htm
.
Please post this information elsewhere, if desired.
.
Respectfully yours,
.
Tom Tinney, Sr.
Who's Who in America,
Millennium Edition [54th] through 2004
Who's Who In Genealogy and Heraldry, [both editions]
Family Genealogy & History Internet Education Directory
http://www.academic-genealogy.com/

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