http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en
misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* Electricity cost breakdown in average USA home - 8 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/21766bdce8117f83?hl=en
* Bush STILL Pushing Increasing U.S. Population - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/abca4c0b7df632ec?hl=en
* McDonald's free wifi - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f18d134b2385fd64?hl=en
* Surviving high heating oil prices - 10 messages, 8 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a184bef53e828bc7?hl=en
* DTV Converter box major snafu in the US - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5479512ec399c625?hl=en
* Donating blood - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/51be6adc7412e820?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Electricity cost breakdown in average USA home
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/21766bdce8117f83?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 5 2008 2:30 pm
From: jeeppintom@webtv.net (Tommy)
I'll take that cheap coal power. Your power come from Harrisburg? I
snapped a pic of 3 mile Island flying out of there a few years ago.
Beautiful country between there, and Lancatser.
== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 5 2008 2:46 pm
From: clams_casino
Tommy wrote:
>With a June electric bill of a wopping $76.74 at 920 kwh in a all
>electric 1675 square foot air conditioned summertime home.
>
>
I'm envious. I just got my June bill - $78.54 for 512 KWh (15.3
cents/Kwh).
== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 5 2008 2:58 pm
From: jeeppintom@webtv.net (Tommy)
Dang you have done real well on your KWH's. Any details???
== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 5 2008 3:28 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
Tommy <jeeppintom@webtv.net> wrote
> You say I'm stupid, and silly.
You quite sure you aint one of those rocket scientist silly stupids ?
> That is you talking.
You quite sure you aint one of those rocket scientist silly stupids ?
> You absolutely dissected the crap out of Dons helpful post.
You quite sure you aint one of those rocket scientist silly stupids ?
> You must be a regular here,
You quite sure you aint one of those rocket scientist silly stupids ?
> theres one or ten in every group like you.
And plenty of fools like you, too.
> Tips, and positive remarks from people like Don has helped me out allot.
Your problem.
> With a June electric bill of a wopping $76.74 at 920 kwh in a
> all electric 1675 square foot air conditioned summertime home.
House, actually.
> That includes a environmental surcharge of $3.45 Next bill usage is around
> 650 KWH somewhere. NOT DONE YET with the electrical savings that is.
Irrelevant to the point I made that it makes no sense to be farting around
with trivial stuff that consumes very little power like cellphone chargers.
> Heck Rod let me ship you a dozen CFL's @ 13 watts each.
No thanks, I get free ones locally.
> They will be free to you, and be significantly cost effective.
Nope, because I spend bugger all on powering my lights.
== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 5 2008 4:08 pm
From: clams_casino
Tommy wrote:
>Dang you have done real well on your KWH's. Any details???
>
>
>
Air hasn't been a big factor..... yet (RI climate - was relatively cool
in June). Cut off date was 6/26.
We do tend to keep lighting under control & don't cook all that much
anymore. Most usage is probably the frig, washer / dryer and
computer. Gas hot water / No freezer / No kids (at home).
I installed a number of the low wattage bulbs last year, although I'm
not sure our usage has significantly dropped (not really showing up in
the monthly averages).
== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 5 2008 4:19 pm
From: clams_casino
clams_casino wrote:
> Tommy wrote:
>
>> Dang you have done real well on your KWH's. Any details???
>>
>>
>>
> Air hasn't been a big factor..... yet (RI climate - was relatively
> cool in June). Cut off date was 6/26.
>
> We do tend to keep lighting under control & don't cook all that
> much anymore. Most usage is probably the frig, washer / dryer and
> computer. Gas hot water / No freezer / No kids (at home).
>
> I installed a number of the low wattage bulbs last year, although
> I'm not sure our usage has significantly dropped (not really showing
> up in the monthly averages).
I should have added that we have 2x6 construction (extra insulation) and
the south side (back) is well shaded from noon on.
== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 5 2008 6:40 pm
From: clams_casino
clams_casino wrote:
> Tommy wrote:
>
>> With a June electric bill of a wopping $76.74 at 920 kwh in a all
>> electric 1675 square foot air conditioned summertime home.
>>
>>
>
> I'm envious. I just got my June bill - $78.54 for 512 KWh (15.3
> cents/Kwh).
and this power company is requesting a 21% rate hike.
== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 5 2008 8:59 pm
From: jeeppintom@webtv.net (Tommy)
Chatted with some people today that knows you. It was very easy to read
your book cover, and they filled in the pages.
How many groups do you screw up???
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bush STILL Pushing Increasing U.S. Population
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/abca4c0b7df632ec?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 5 2008 2:56 pm
From: OrangeSFO
Republicans...they want more babies...but they don't want anyone to
fuck.
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 5 2008 3:26 pm
From: "Clave"
"OrangeSFO" <intangible103@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:90472b84-f3a1-47b0-911d-b1f2fe121e2b@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> Republicans...they want more babies...but they don't want anyone to
> fuck.
Nonsense. They just don't want women to enjoy it.
Jim
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 5 2008 9:05 pm
From: "Lord Gow333, Conservative Fullback!"
"Clave" <ClaviusNoSpamDammit@cablespeed.com> wrote in message
news:W6-dnTvT1pK7aPLVnZ2dnUVZ_r7inZ2d@cablespeedwa.com...
> "OrangeSFO" <intangible103@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:90472b84-f3a1-47b0-911d-b1f2fe121e2b@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> Republicans...they want more babies...but they don't want anyone to
>> fuck.
>
> Nonsense. They just don't want women to enjoy it.
Completely wrong. They want all couples to be married before having sex,
thereby ensuring that the MAN won't enjoy it.
LG
--
Failure is the opportunity to begin again more intelligently. - Henry Ford
==============================================================================
TOPIC: McDonald's free wifi
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f18d134b2385fd64?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 5 2008 3:37 pm
From: max
In article <20080705134204.ffb4ea97.noway@nohow.not>,
Dave <noway@nohow.not> wrote:
> If you are interested in free wifi, there are several chains that offer
> truly free wifi. Panera bread for example. But don't bother with
> McDonald's, it is not free.
I'd like to reiterate, in case anyone missed it: PANERA WIFI IS FREE!
No BS, works great.
<http://www.wififreespot.com/il.html> is a goo starting place. Not
wholly up-to-date (i.e. it doesn't list all the Panera locations), but
useful. Most public libraries have free wifi.
--
This signature can be appended to your outgoing mesages. Many people include in
their signatures contact information, and perhaps a joke or quotation.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Surviving high heating oil prices
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a184bef53e828bc7?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 5 2008 3:57 pm
From: BeaForoni
On Jul 4, 12:11 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> AKA Sambo
spewed:
>
> Then he's a fool that doesnt have a clue.
>
More commie nonsense
> Thats just plain wrong.
>
Again you don't know what you are taking about.
>
> And that is just plain wrong too.
>
Nothing but a bare face lie
> Nope.
>
Yep
.
>
> Nope.
Yep
.
>
> Waste of time, he clearly doesnt have a clue.
You are a bald faced PIG liar.
Gowd, this is so much fun! And I even feel smarter. How about everyone
else; do I seem smart?
== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 5 2008 4:33 pm
From: krw
In article <MPG.22d91b5db066957a98b6f6@news.individual.net>,
the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm says...
> Fri, 04 Jul 2008 22:17:02 -0700 from Tim Smith <reply_in_group@mouse-
> potato.com>:
> > In article <MPG.22d7fc27b4a0188d98b6f2@news.individual.net>,
> > Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> > > My understanding is that the furnace uses less fuel overall to keep
> > > the water in the heating pipes at a constant temperature than to let
> > > it cool down by 10 or 15 degrees in the day time (when I'm at work)
> > > and the night (when I'm in bed) and then reheat it.
> > >
> > > My understanding is that this is true for hot-water heat but not for
> > > forced-air, since it takes much less energy to heat air than water.
> >
> > In general, if you have something that you need to be above ambient
> > temperature at time 1 and at time 2, it takes more energy to keep it at
> > that temperature than it does to let it cool after time 1, and heat it
> > back to the desired temperature at time 2.
> [snip logical explanation]
>
> Yes, that makes perfect sense -- basic thermodynamics.
>
> The problem, and the difference between physics and engineering :-)
> is that no device is not 100% efficient. What I don't know is how
> that affects things.
"Efficency" of the mass doesn't matter. The heat used is
proportional to the difference in temperature between inside and
outside only. Any energy you put into latent heat will come back
later. Though as Stan points out that a longer running fire would
likely be more efficient.
> I also wonder about effects on the house structure of letting the
> indoor temperature fluctuate 10 or 15 degrees twice a day. And I
> wonder about mold too -- maybe I misremembered what my mold guy said
> and it's just that he said to keep the temp above 65 to prevent mold
> formation -- though presumably that's more of an issue in spring and
> fall since winter humidity is too low for mold.
As long as you don't get condensation mold shouldn't be an issue.
The issue here would be the minimum temperature not the difference.
However, there are things in the house that might not like the
constant temperature and humidity variation. IOW, there may be
other reasons to not go wild here.
> It's not a simple question. The answer could well turn out to be,
> "yes, setting back the temperature uses less energy, but it's worse
> because ..."
Ok, find the "..." and we'll listen. So far, the cost argument
isn't cutting it. ;-)
--
Keith
== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 5 2008 5:49 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com
On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 22:42:48 -0400, "JonquilJan" <ward39@imcnet.net>
wrote:
>wondering about heating this next winter. right now, I have forced air with
>a propane furnace. Furnace new this past season. Very old house (pre 1850)
>which has been insulated as much as possible (vertical very thick plank
>walls - would have to build stud wall on the inside to put in more
>insulation )
>
>thinking of closing off more than I have already (2nd floor entirely closed
>off) and using heavy drapes/curtain/blankets to enclose the living room and
>adjacent bedroom - which would be the only rooms with open registers - other
>than the bathroom - and supplementing with a kerosene heater (which I have
>had for 25 years). But considering that the rooms would be closed/curtained
>off - with reduced air flow - thinking also one of the oil filled electric
>heater might be safer. If power goes (which it can) would open the curtains
>and use the kero heater. Last winter I had the thermostat at 64. I am
>disabled - 69 - and having increasing problems with mobility and keeping
>warm.
>
>Pay about $4000 a year for propane - heat and cooking only. Hot water
>heater is electric - new at the same time as the furnace - and has only
>raised my electric bill about $10 a month - so far. I expect propane will
>be much, much more costly this next heating season.
>
>Suggestions - ideas. I live in northern New York state.
>
>JonquilJan
>
>Learn something new every day
>As long as you are learning, you are living
>When you stop learning, you start dying
>
I hate to say it, but it might be time to consider a move to a house
that is more efficient. Sometimes there is only so much you can do.
If you have decreased mobility, can't deal with wood or coal, and have
essentially cordoned off the second floor, sounds like you might be a
prime candidate for such an extreme measure, and possibly even a move
south. I've been reading a bunch of stuff recently about solar
fluctuations, and I anticipate this winter to be *at least* as cold as
the last one.
In a Vermont forum, I mentioned early this year that there would be a
possibility of a lot of people trying to move south come November, due
to increased heating costs. I can vouch that north Alabama is a lot
warmer than northern New York state, has lower taxes, and has some
great people, like Gary.
Another option that you might consider if you are in a college area,
is to take on a boarder for the winter months, with the understanding
that they get the upstairs, and the rent is the cost of heating the
house.
If I was living back north, and had to stay in a house like that, and
had seriously limited resources, I would seriously consider building a
room within a room, where I would spend most of my time while at home.
A few rolls of insulation, some studs, some sheetrock and/or plastic,
and an electric heater and light and tv, comfy chair and bed. Let the
rest of the house drop into the 40s, scoot to the kitchen to cook, but
otherwise live in the heated small space. It would be cabin fever
time, but at least it would be survivable.
== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 5 2008 4:59 pm
From: Ron Peterson
On Jul 4, 9:42 pm, "JonquilJan" <war...@imcnet.net> wrote:
> Suggestions - ideas. I live in northern New York state.
Convert to natural gas if you can.
Have you put in energy efficient windows?
--
Ron
== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 5 2008 5:32 pm
From: "h"
"Ron Peterson" <ron@shell.core.com> wrote in message
news:255f3a46-dfe1-4ec6-921a-5072b95031eb@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 4, 9:42 pm, "JonquilJan" <war...@imcnet.net> wrote:
> Suggestions - ideas. I live in northern New York state.
>Convert to natural gas if you can.
>Have you put in energy efficient windows?
I'm in upstate NY and natural gas is not an option (no gas lines here).
Propane would be the only alternative, and it's not that much less than oil,
especially once you factor in dumping a fairly new oil burning and
buying/installing the propane unit.
My house is slightly older than the OPs (about 1815), and we used about
$2,500 worth of oil last year for a 2000 sq ft house. Of course, I don't
heat much past 55F. We've insulated all we can and have brand new (2006)
sheathing, clapboards, windows, etc., and frankly, my very old house is much
better built and secure than any new econbox being built around here. Moving
to a "new" structure is not only not an option, it's not even smart. The OP
shouldn't even think about moving just yet.
== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 5 2008 5:18 pm
From: "JonquilJan"
Ron Peterson <ron@shell.core.com> wrote in message
news:255f3a46-dfe1-4ec6-921a-5072b95031eb@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 4, 9:42 pm, "JonquilJan" <war...@imcnet.net> wrote:
> >Suggestions - ideas. I live in northern New York state.
>Convert to natural gas if you can.
Not available.
>Have you put in energy efficient windows?
Don't have the funds for that. Use heavy drapes/blankets/old quilts.
JonquilJan
--
Ron
== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 5 2008 5:25 pm
From: "JonquilJan"
> If I was living back north, and had to stay in a house like that, and
> had seriously limited resources, I would seriously consider building a
> room within a room, where I would spend most of my time while at home.
> A few rolls of insulation, some studs, some sheetrock and/or plastic,
> and an electric heater and light and tv, comfy chair and bed. Let the
> rest of the house drop into the 40s, scoot to the kitchen to cook, but
> otherwise live in the heated small space. It would be cabin fever
> time, but at least it would be survivable.
>
Interesting point. I am considering something along that line with the
curtains and drapes. Big problem is heating the bathroom (and pipes) very
old house has weird setup. And not too thoughful additions (before my
purchase). As for cabin fever - been there - every winter when the weather
gets bad/icy and/or the car gets 'sick' and spends time at the mechanics (5
times last winter)
My snip took out mention of a college student/boarder. College is 15 miles
and is a local community college. Besides I have a lot of 'stuff' on the
second floor. Perhaps not important to others - but it's 'my' stuff.
JonquilJan a stubborn old lady.
Learn something new every day
As long as you are learning, you are living
When you stop learning, you start dying
== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 5 2008 9:05 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com
On Sat, 5 Jul 2008 20:32:57 -0400, "h" <tmclone@searchmachine.com>
wrote:
>and frankly, my very old house is much
>better built and secure than any new econbox being built around here. Moving
>to a "new" structure is not only not an option, it's not even smart. The OP
>shouldn't even think about moving just yet.
I used to think that way. I also like DOS. Shit changes.
== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 5 2008 8:15 pm
From: gheston@hiwaay.net (Gary Heston)
In article <487012b8$0$21486$38cefb40@news.westelcom.com>,
JonquilJan <ward39@imcnet.net> wrote:
[room within a room]
>Interesting point. I am considering something along that line with the
>curtains and drapes. Big problem is heating the bathroom (and pipes) very
>old house has weird setup. And not too thoughful additions (before my
>purchase).
The plumbing can be helped with electric heat tapes (on the drains as well;
a ex-coworker had hers freeze in her apartment), and insulation where it's
possible.
> As for cabin fever - been there - every winter when the weather
>gets bad/icy and/or the car gets 'sick' and spends time at the mechanics (5
>times last winter)
Yes, the Internet isn't everything...
>My snip took out mention of a college student/boarder. College is 15 miles
>and is a local community college. Besides I have a lot of 'stuff' on the
>second floor. Perhaps not important to others - but it's 'my' stuff.
And you value your space. Reasonable.
>JonquilJan a stubborn old lady.
Which means you'll be around for quite a while longer. :-)
Gary
--
Gary Heston gheston@hiwaay.net
http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/
"a member or members of Osama bin Ladens' Al Qaeda network, posing as
computer programmers, were able to gain employment at Microsoft..."
claim made by Mohammed Afroze Abdul Razzak to police in India, 12/01.
== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 5 2008 8:39 pm
From: WDS
On Jul 5, 7:49 pm, hchick...@hotmail.com wrote:
> In a Vermont forum, I mentioned early this year that there would be a
> possibility of a lot of people trying to move south come November, due
> to increased heating costs. I can vouch that north Alabama is a lot
> warmer than northern New York state, has lower taxes, and has some
> great people, like Gary.
You can actually end up WORSE by doing that. A few years ago I worked
with some guys from southern California. They were complaining about
their heating bills and asked what mine (in Minnesota) was. When I
told them they didn't believe me because theirs were running 2x to 4x
mine. And that was in my old house which wasn't all that well
insulated. It had been a "cold" (for CA) winter and their houses
basically weren't insulated.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: DTV Converter box major snafu in the US
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5479512ec399c625?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 5 2008 6:14 pm
From: me@privacy.net (GordonD)
In article <7klv64pqgre916tloireq9nlj4b1l92lfr@4ax.com>, Dennis <dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 5 Jul 2008 13:53:13 +0800, Dave <noway@nohow.not> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 5 Jul 2008 05:31:40 -0700 (PDT)
>>James <j0069bond@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Do some boxes get better reception than others? I wonder if a more
>>> expensive box gets better results than the cheap one from Walmart.
>>
>>The short answer is NO.
>>
>>With digital, you either have picture or you don't. There's no
>>"better" reception. The processing of the video information is where
>>quality differences would lie. That is, one box might OUTPUT better
>>quality picture than another. BUT, these boxes are meant to be used on
>>older analog television sets. If there is a difference in video
>>quality from one DTV converter box to another, it will not be
>>noticeable when the monitor being used is analog. -Dave
>
>Gotta disagree here. There are differences between the performance of
>digital tuners built into different digital TVs and ATSC PC tuner
>cards. In some cases, different tuners running side-by-side from the
>same signal input can have significantly different performance. True,
>once locked on a signal the pictures are the same, but one may hold a
>given (marginal) station better, with fewer dropouts and glitches,
>than the other.
>
>I don't see why it would be any different with convertor boxes.
>
>
>Dennis (evil)
My personal experience also bears this out. I've tried Zenith, Magnavox and
Dish (DTVPal) boxes and both picture quality and number of stations recieved
varies significantly. The difference is noticeable even on a 20" Sony TV. The
Zenith picture quality and reception is far better than the other two, the
Dish has the poorest reception. Picture qulity between the Magnavox and Dish
is about equal.
GordonD
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 5 2008 8:18 pm
From: gheston@hiwaay.net (Gary Heston)
In article <48701715$0$10001$8ebe3a62@news.megabitz.net>,
GordonD <me@privacy.net> wrote:
[ ... ]
>My personal experience also bears this out. I've tried Zenith, Magnavox and
>Dish (DTVPal) boxes and both picture quality and number of stations recieved
>varies significantly. The difference is noticeable even on a 20" Sony TV. The
>Zenith picture quality and reception is far better than the other two, the
>Dish has the poorest reception. Picture qulity between the Magnavox and Dish
>is about equal.
What model Zenith converter box do you have?
Gary
--
Gary Heston gheston@hiwaay.net
http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/
"a member or members of Osama bin Ladens' Al Qaeda network, posing as
computer programmers, were able to gain employment at Microsoft..."
claim made by Mohammed Afroze Abdul Razzak to police in India, 12/01.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Donating blood
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/51be6adc7412e820?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 5 2008 9:27 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com
On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 10:31:07 -0700 (PDT), val189
<gwehrenb@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Ever thought about your psa score?
>
>Let me remind you of a friend who also boasted that he hadn't been to
>a doctor in 25 years - and died in bed one night - coronary - widow
>still angry that he might have prevented his untimely death.
Last time I checked, those weren't related...
People die. I once had the wife of a janitor accuse me of killing her
husband by asking him to do his job. He happened to die of a coronary
within a month of my supervising him.
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