http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en
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Today's topics:
* The leeches are reaching for more - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c1f04e2aa1094da5?hl=en
* The DSL 12-Month Commitment - 5 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/bb1b6c0797411fac?hl=en
* Exploding iPods! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/20415c036fa62cee?hl=en
* Compact Flourescent bulbs - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c541905216cc4817?hl=en
* Homemade Cleaner? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8ae05b3b6d060438?hl=en
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TOPIC: The leeches are reaching for more
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c1f04e2aa1094da5?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 20 2008 8:10 pm
From: Coffee's For Closers
In article <92320597-95cb-46bb-a531-
d3238aa35db0@u6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>, seerialmom@yahoo.com
says...
> On Aug 10, 8:30=A0pm, "Gregory Morrow"
> <FlyPrahaJakartaByTU104...@flyokayflycsa.cz> wrote:
> > George Grapman wrote:
> > > Gregory Morrow wrote:
> > > > clams_casino wrote:
> >
> > > >> clams_casino wrote:
> >
> > > >>> George Grapman wrote:
> >
> > > >>>> clams_casino wrote:
> >
> > > >>>>> George Grapman wrote:
> >
> > > >>>>>> clams_casino wrote:
> >
> > > >>>>>>> Gregory Morrow wrote:
> >
> > > >>>>>>>> The cost of phone calls has gone down by factors of tens,
> > > >>>>>>>> hundreds even...
> >
> > > >>>>>>> My phone bill is higher today than it's ever been.
> >
> > > >>>>>> =A0 But are you making the same number of calls?
> >
> > > >>>>> Yes, but we make very few phone calls - usually it's much cheaper=
> /
> > > >>>>> faster (especially for reservations, etc) / easier to use email.
> >
> > > >>>> =A0 You must have an unusual calling pattern. I make more calls th=
> an
> > > >>>> ever since I work at home but pay much less than I did 20 years ag=
> o.
> >
> > > >>> Our 1998 bills averaged $22.05 / month with 115 min LD / mo.
> >
> > > >>> Year to date 2008, they've averaged $28.56/mo for just 35 min long
> > > >>> distance / month. =A0Our base rate is currently $9.17/month with $1=
> 6.02
> > > >>> in fees / taxes using a 5 cent offpeak & 10 cent / min flat rate LD
> > > >>> calling plan. =A0 =A0Last =A0month, our bill was $27.68 =3D $9.17 b=
> ase rate,
> > > >>> $1.48 for LD calls (19 minutes) and $17.03 in taxes / fees.
> >
> > > >>> Businesses have obviously made out well as the LD cost/min has drop=
> ped
> > > >>> significantly, an advantage for big users. =A0 Casual users have
> > > >>> realized a significant price hike due to all the fixed cost fees.
> > > >>> That's not including a Trac phone that we now have for convenience
> > > >>> when traveling, although it is rarely used & was not available 10
> > > >>> years ago.
> >
> > > >>> Seems like most cell phone users are probably paying $50 and up /
> > > >>> month, although they are probably using them 500 hrs / month
> > > >>> considering one in every 10 drivers seem to be driving around just =
> to
> > > >>> talk on their phones.
> >
> > > >> Just found some 1980 data - $18.88/mo.
> >
> > > > About $53.00 in present - day dollars...
> >
> > > =A0 =A0 Which is about what I pay for unlimited service with all the ad=
> d ons
> > > like caller ID and three way.
> >
> > Yup, me too...and most of these features were the stuff of science fictio=
> n
> > or just in development c. 1980. =A0Plus which we can choose our carriers =
> and
> > our phone hardware...
> In 1981 I remember thinking how "Hi-Tech" I was when I got a touch
> tone phone that let me "program" 12 phone #'s into a speed dial area
> on the front. That phone was so cool one of my roommate's brothers
> stole it! :D
You had touch-tone in 1981? Humph... I and my twelve siblings
were still using an AT&T rental rotary-dial desk model in a
cheesy colour! Iiiifff we were lucky!
Although, I recall another residence, with the first domestic
button-pushing phone I ever used. It was actually still "pulse"
dial, and each numerical button sent a "click-click-click..."
type sound down the line while dialing. I think that was in the
late 70s.
Today, I feel a strange emotional resistance to the idea that, my
bottom-of-the-range cell phone actually needs a user's manual.
--
Want Privacy?
http://www.MinistryOfPrivacy.com/
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 20 2008 8:34 pm
From: Coffee's For Closers
In article <aqOnk.6805$np7.4953@flpi149.ffdc.sbc.com>,
sfgeorge@paccbell.net says...
> Gregory Morrow wrote:
> > George Grapman wrote:
> >
> >> clams_casino wrote:
> >>> George Grapman wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> clams_casino wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Gregory Morrow wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> The cost of phone calls has gone down by factors of tens, hundreds
> >>>>>> even...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> My phone bill is higher today than it's ever been.
> >>>> But are you making the same number of calls?
> >>> Yes, but we make very few phone calls - usually it's much cheaper /
> >>> faster (especially for reservations, etc) / easier to use email.
> >> You must have an unusual calling pattern. I make more calls than ever
> >> since I work at home but pay much less than I did 20 years ago.
> >>
> >
> >
> > Yep...and a few decades ago in the Ma Bell daze you didn't have all that
> > jazz such as voice mail, call forwarding, caller ID, etc. You were "locked
> > in" phone service - wise, it was a monopoly...
> >
> > For landline I have Comcast Digital Voice for about $50.00/month, unlimited
> > local and LD calling (including Guam, Hawaii, Puerto Rico) with all the
> > bells and whistles. They are advertising $19.99 for new customers (for six
> > months). I could probably get cheaper if I ditched the landline and went
> > cellular, but I don't want or need a cellphone (at least at this time)...
> >
> > Phone service, along with consumer electronics, is one of the great bargains
> > of this era...
> >
> > Years ago futurists were saying that because of atomic power "electricity
> > will be too cheap to meter". That has not come to pass, but it almost has
> > with phone service, especially LD...
> There was a time when they tried to prevent you from owning your own
> equipment.
I seem to recall that that went to court for the, "Carterphone
Decision," looooong before most Americans even knew that there
was an alternative to the monthly rental on the standard AT&T
supplied phone.
--
Get Credit Where Credit Is Due
http://www.cardreport.com/
Credit Tools, Reference, and Forum
==============================================================================
TOPIC: The DSL 12-Month Commitment
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/bb1b6c0797411fac?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 20 2008 8:18 pm
From: Coffee's For Closers
My ISP here in NZ had a decent sign-up deal.
The router was "free" with a 12-month commitment. And the
penalty for early termination was simply that I would have had to
pay ninety bucks to buy said router.
Plus, the ISP is also the regular, monopolistic phone company,
which seems to be the best I can get, anyway. My vague
understanding is that, other broadband services are just
reselling this same service.
--
Earn Money With Your Web Site
http://www.WebSponsorZone.Net
Web Site Advertising Directory
== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 20 2008 10:09 pm
From: The Real Bev
Rod Speed wrote:
> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote
>> AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote
>>> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Jack wrote
>>>>> <gonzo@alltomyself.com> wrote
>
>>>>>> For a while there was a software problem that required me
>>>>>> to power cycle the modem every few days.
>
>>>>> For those of us who are klutzes, what does this mean?
>
>>>> Turn it off. Wait a minute or so. Turn it back on. If it
>>>> doesn't have a switch, just unplug it. This is the first thing
>>>> you try before you call the helpdroid, and it fixes the
>>>> majority of of connection problems.
>
>>> doing that has never fixed my problems.
>
>> It doesn't solve the "somebody in the main office tripped over the
>> wire and pulled the plug out" or "a car took out the junction box
>> up the street" or "I'm sorry, ma'am, there doesn't seem to be any
>> problem" problems, but nothing does :-(
>
>> Sometimes you have to tweak your router, too.
>
> Hardly ever.
Upon occasion we've had to do that as a last resort. Not often.
>> Sort of like the standard Windows solution: Reboot everything; if
>> that fails, reformat and reinstall everything.
>
> Nothing like. If a reboot of the modem doesnt fix it, the problem is
> certainly upstream of the modem, with the line or back behind that.
>
> And that hasnt been the standard Windows solution for generations of
> Win now.
I know some who regard it as a personal preference and do it
periodically just to clean out the cruft. The very idea fills me with
horror, and I've only had to do stuff like that when upgrading to a new
machine. I always ended up better off than I was, but it was still
traumatic.
--
Cheers,
Bev
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Why is it so hot and what am I doing in this handbasket?
== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 20 2008 10:17 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote
>>> AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote
>>>> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Jack wrote
>>>>>> <gonzo@alltomyself.com> wrote
>>>>>>> For a while there was a software problem that required me to power cycle the modem every few days.
>>>>>> For those of us who are klutzes, what does this mean?
>>>>> Turn it off. Wait a minute or so. Turn it back on. If it
>>>>> doesn't have a switch, just unplug it. This is the first thing
>>>>> you try before you call the helpdroid, and it fixes the
>>>>> majority of of connection problems.
>>>> doing that has never fixed my problems.
>>> It doesn't solve the "somebody in the main office tripped over the
>>> wire and pulled the plug out" or "a car took out the junction box
>>> up the street" or "I'm sorry, ma'am, there doesn't seem to be any
>>> problem" problems, but nothing does :-(
>>> Sometimes you have to tweak your router, too.
>> Hardly ever.
> Upon occasion we've had to do that as a last resort. Not often.
I havent needed to do it ever and I've been using DSL for a lot longer than you have.
And its now a hell of a lot more reliable than dialup ever was too.
>>> Sort of like the standard Windows solution: Reboot everything; if that fails, reformat and reinstall everything.
>> Nothing like. If a reboot of the modem doesnt fix it, the problem is
>> certainly upstream of the modem, with the line or back behind that.
>> And that hasnt been the standard Windows solution for generations of Win now.
> I know some who regard it as a personal preference and do it periodically just to clean out the cruft.
Thats nothing like the standard Windows solution tho.
> The very idea fills me with horror, and I've only had to do stuff like that when upgrading to a new machine.
You dont even need to do it with a new machine anymore, just do a repair install instead and lose nothing.
Even when moving between major OS versions, the files and settings transfer wizard works fine.
> I always ended up better off than I was, but it was still traumatic.
Yeah, but hasnt been necessary for generations now.
== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 20 2008 10:41 pm
From: The Real Bev
Rod Speed wrote:
> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote
>>>>> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>> Jack wrote
>>>>>>> <gonzo@alltomyself.com> wrote
>
>>>>>>>> For a while there was a software problem that required
>>>>>>>> me to power cycle the modem every few days.
>
>>>>>>> For those of us who are klutzes, what does this mean?
>
>>>>>> Turn it off. Wait a minute or so. Turn it back on. If it
>>>>>> doesn't have a switch, just unplug it. This is the first
>>>>>> thing you try before you call the helpdroid, and it fixes
>>>>>> the majority of of connection problems.
>
>>>>> doing that has never fixed my problems.
>
>>>> It doesn't solve the "somebody in the main office tripped over
>>>> the wire and pulled the plug out" or "a car took out the
>>>> junction box up the street" or "I'm sorry, ma'am, there doesn't
>>>> seem to be any problem" problems, but nothing does :-(
>
>>>> Sometimes you have to tweak your router, too.
>
>>> Hardly ever.
>
>> Upon occasion we've had to do that as a last resort. Not often.
>
> I havent needed to do it ever and I've been using DSL for a lot
> longer than you have.
>
> And its now a hell of a lot more reliable than dialup ever was too.
>
>>>> Sort of like the standard Windows solution: Reboot everything;
>>>> if that fails, reformat and reinstall everything.
>
>>> Nothing like. If a reboot of the modem doesnt fix it, the problem
>>> is certainly upstream of the modem, with the line or back behind
>>> that.
>
>>> And that hasnt been the standard Windows solution for generations
>>> of Win now.
>
>> I know some who regard it as a personal preference and do it
>> periodically just to clean out the cruft.
>
> Thats nothing like the standard Windows solution tho.
>
>> The very idea fills me with horror, and I've only had to do stuff
>> like that when upgrading to a new machine.
>
> You dont even need to do it with a new machine anymore, just do a
> repair install instead and lose nothing.
When did that start? I put various stuff of mine on my mom's XP
winmachine, but I don't do anything serious with it.
I just discovered wine. Very handy. I wonder if it can handle
photoshop and how you would do a photoshop installation on a linux
machine...
> Even when moving between major OS versions, the files and settings
> transfer wizard works fine.
What is 'transfer wizard'? I used a number of different 'this always
works' programs to upgrade from 98 to 2000, but nothing worked. I seem
to remember I couldn't even transfer my old system to a new bigger HD.
>> I always ended up better off than I was, but it was still
>> traumatic.
>
> Yeah, but hasnt been necessary for generations now.
I assume you mean windows generations, not human generations.
--
Cheers,
Bev
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Why is it so hot and what am I doing in this handbasket?
== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 20 2008 11:26 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote
>>>>>> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>> Jack wrote
>>>>>>>> <gonzo@alltomyself.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>> For a while there was a software problem that required
>>>>>>>>> me to power cycle the modem every few days.
>>>>>>>> For those of us who are klutzes, what does this mean?
>>>>>>> Turn it off. Wait a minute or so. Turn it back on. If it
>>>>>>> doesn't have a switch, just unplug it. This is the first
>>>>>>> thing you try before you call the helpdroid, and it fixes
>>>>>>> the majority of of connection problems.
>>>>>> doing that has never fixed my problems.
>>>>> It doesn't solve the "somebody in the main office tripped over
>>>>> the wire and pulled the plug out" or "a car took out the
>>>>> junction box up the street" or "I'm sorry, ma'am, there doesn't
>>>>> seem to be any problem" problems, but nothing does :-(
>>>>> Sometimes you have to tweak your router, too.
>>>> Hardly ever.
>>> Upon occasion we've had to do that as a last resort. Not often.
>> I havent needed to do it ever and I've been using DSL for a lot longer than you have.
>> And its now a hell of a lot more reliable than dialup ever was too.
>>>>> Sort of like the standard Windows solution: Reboot everything;
>>>>> if that fails, reformat and reinstall everything.
>>>> Nothing like. If a reboot of the modem doesnt fix it, the problem is certainly upstream of the modem, with the line
>>>> or back behind that.
>>>> And that hasnt been the standard Windows solution for generations of Win now.
>>> I know some who regard it as a personal preference and do it
>>> periodically just to clean out the cruft.
>> Thats nothing like the standard Windows solution tho.
>>> The very idea fills me with horror, and I've only had to do stuff like that when upgrading to a new machine.
>> You dont even need to do it with a new machine anymore, just do a repair install instead and lose nothing.
> When did that start?
XP.
> I put various stuff of mine on my mom's XP winmachine, but I don't do anything serious with it.
> I just discovered wine.
Uh oh, time for AA.
> Very handy.
Only if you dont use the real thing. Anyone with a clue does.
> I wonder if it can handle photoshop
Nope, goes flat on its face.
> and how you would do a photoshop installation on a linux machine...
I'd use real Win instead.
>> Even when moving between major OS versions, the files and settings transfer wizard works fine.
> What is 'transfer wizard'?
Thats what its called, the Files and Settings Transfer Wizard
First showed up with XP, tho it can be used to move 95 and 98 and 2K files and settings to an XP installation.
> I used a number of different 'this always works' programs to upgrade from 98 to 2000, but nothing worked.
The Files and Settings Transfer Wizard does.
> I seem to remember I couldn't even transfer my old system to a new bigger HD.
Just because you didnt know how to do that. Its completely trivial to do it if you know what you are doing.
>>> I always ended up better off than I was, but it was still traumatic.
>> Yeah, but hasnt been necessary for generations now.
> I assume you mean windows generations, not human generations.
Yep, tho its also true of human generations too, I bet the grand rug rats know how to do it.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Exploding iPods!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/20415c036fa62cee?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 20 2008 9:17 pm
From: Shawn Hirn
In article <LP6dnUlQWLOSejHVnZ2dnUVZ_uednZ2d@giganews.com>,
Steve de Mena <steve@stevedemena.com> wrote:
> Shawn Hirn wrote:
>
> > I am a long time Apple user and that hasn't been my experience at all. I
> > own one of those first generation iPod nanos, which was a gift. I also
> > own an Apple G5 PowerMac, an Apple MacPro (Intel-based) and an Apple
> > MacBook Pro (Intel based) and all of them work beautifully. I am using
> > the MacBook Pro to type this message.
>
> Do you have an ATI x1900 XT graphics card in your Mac Pro?
No. I have a first-generation MacBook Pro which has the Radeon X1600
graphics card.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Compact Flourescent bulbs
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c541905216cc4817?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 20 2008 10:37 pm
From: John Savage
terryc <newssixspam-spam@woa.com.au> writes:
>On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 23:42:08 -0400, h wrote:
>
>> I've never had a CFL bulb last less than 5 years. I have lots of different
>> brands (at least a few are GE). All were purchased at either Home Depot or
>> Walmart. As far as electric savings go, I just look at my bill. It dropped
>> dramatically when we switched out all the bulbs.
>
>Weird and totally divorced from my reality, but different country.
7 or 8 years ago, CF globes from the supermarket typically lasted 5 to 12
months in our stairwell/security application requiring 14 hours continuous
service per day. Any CF globes that gave less than 3 months life I returned
directly to the distributor requesting replacement. Invariably the short-
lived globe was replaced with at least two new globes, or a shopping voucher
equivalent. For comparison, incandescent globes last around 3 to 9 months in
this service. Formerly, 60 to 100 watt incandescents were needed in the
stairwells; I replaced them with 15 to 18 watt CFs.
CF globes currently stocked by the supermarket giants** offer significant
improvement. Now, I anticipate a life of 8 to 24 months. (**Australia)
I find it convenient to write the installation date on the matt white
surface of each globe's base.
It is not widely known that ordinary incandescent globes are rated for a
life of 2500 hours (under test conditions). More expensive incandescents
are available which offer double this figure.
If nothing else, the reduced frequency of replacement must count for
something.
--
John Savage (my news address is not valid for email)
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Homemade Cleaner?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8ae05b3b6d060438?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 20 2008 11:32 pm
From: FecklessThug
vinegar + baking soda.
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