http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en
misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* Fowl Math - 10 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3f704369916fd0d6?hl=en
* To juice or not. - 6 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/bb065ec0061ab7cd?hl=en
* What are you experiences with Liberty Mutual car/home insurance? - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0c30aea067c4c768?hl=en
* How do you save money, I started with INK for my printer - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3b671e616b1da3dd?hl=en
* PING: Pat Meadows - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0f25aa435fc02242?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Fowl Math
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3f704369916fd0d6?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 4:17 pm
From: Dennis
On 31 Jul 2008 20:31:14 GMT, Terri <Terri@micron.net> wrote:
>While we've got 5.5 acres, it comes with coyotes, fox, hawks, owls,
>badgers, raccoons and the occasional roaming dog.
>I'd need a fortress to lock them up in at night. We're thinking
>of using some spare bricks that came with the place and running
>some hot wire around the outside to plug in at night. I'd
>set it up in back of the shop near power so I can also keep
>the water thawed in the winter.
We've lost clucks to coyotes, raccoons and cars (why DID the chicken
cross the road, anyway?). The eagles and hawks like to eyeball the
flock, but so far haven't worked up the courage to grab anything.
Having a chicken-friendly farm dog helps keep the predators at bay.
(Do you still have your dogs?)
>I'm curious, would you do it for eggs and bug control only? With
>a different breed, of course.
Try a few Americanas -- they lay cool-looking blue-green eggs (normal
inside).
Dennis (evil)
--
I'm behind the eight ball, ahead of the curve, riding the wave,
dodging the bullet and pushing the envelope. -George Carlin
== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 4:19 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"
>> The point is that with broilers, unless you want to run the birds
>> through a car wash or the dishwasher before butchering, there is going
>> to be some poop on them, something that a lot of literature
>> conveniently forgets to mention. Processing plants have methods of
>> safely dealing with this, home growers have to figure things out as
>> best they can.
so do the eggs. all comes from the same place.
== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 5:19 pm
From: Terri
Dennis <dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:2fh494d7krcngo36k443r0mfn31hihoupv@4ax.com:
>
> We've lost clucks to coyotes, raccoons and cars (why DID the chicken
> cross the road, anyway?). The eagles and hawks like to eyeball the
> flock, but so far haven't worked up the courage to grab anything.
> Having a chicken-friendly farm dog helps keep the predators at bay.
> (Do you still have your dogs?)
No. I lost Luke in Jan of '06 and Mojo in July of the same year.
Taffy is our only remaining Katrina dog now and she's getting pretty
old.
We've added a *Carmine to the herd now. He grew up
with geese and other birds just fine. The only birds he hates
are peacocks.
"Good boy Carmine, good boy."
>
>
>>I'm curious, would you do it for eggs and bug control only? With
>>a different breed, of course.
>
> Try a few Americanas -- they lay cool-looking blue-green eggs (normal
> inside).
Are they related to the Anacondas?
It's been so long since I've been around chicken raising endevours that I
don't even know of some of the breeds now.
It used to be Rhodes, Bantys or Big White ones were the only choices.
*Carmine is a black Lab and the best dog in the world. I may stick
with Labs now instead of GSDs.
== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 6:42 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com
On 31 Jul 2008 20:31:14 GMT, Terri <Terri@micron.net> wrote:
>This is one of the main reasons we're not even thinking about getting
>any just yet. That and the fact that until I sell my other house
>money is tight right now.
>While we've got 5.5 acres, it comes with coyotes, fox, hawks, owls,
>badgers, raccoons and the occasional roaming dog.
>I'd need a fortress to lock them up in at night. We're thinking
>of using some spare bricks that came with the place and running
>some hot wire around the outside to plug in at night. I'd
>set it up in back of the shop near power so I can also keep
>the water thawed in the winter.
Sounds plausable.
>> Next, the price of my last 50 lb bag of grower/finisher feed at
>> Tractor Supply was $15. It took a little over a week for 17 of my 14
>> week old culls to go through that, plus table scraps, plus the wormy
>> corn from the garden. The culls are Cobbs, which have been ruthlessly
>> bred for feed to meat efficiency, so expect even higher feed costs
>> from other breeds.
>That's good to know. Thanks, Harry.
da nada
>Having once been party to butchering @50 old chickens once as a kid,
>I flat refuse to ever do it again. Paying someone to do the deed
>is money well spent to me. <shudder>
>I'd rather pump out a septic tank with a garden hose.
>:)
pfft Septic tank with a hose? Child's play. Siphoning it out and
starting the siphon by hand, otoh...
>I'm not sure yet what breeds we're interested in. I want both eggs
>and meat.
Discussions here:
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/forumdisplay.php?f=26
>There is one other aspect of this that I hadn't mentioned and that is
>that I'm in the process of getting an organic rating. There is a large
>chain health food store moving in my area next year and a big organic
>market opening up. In addition to the chickens I'm eyeballing the
>possibility of growing heirloom tomatoes.
The chickens should love eating them :-)
>I'm curious, would you do it for eggs and bug control only? With
>a different breed, of course.
Dunno. Just too many predators around to let them free range. If
they could just be trained to use a litter box...
Seriously, the chicken litter from broiler houses is a valuable
commodity, probably worth more than the bug control. The folks around
here who want bug control get guineas.
Remember that is you are feeding chickens, rats like chicken feed.
== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 6:41 pm
From: Dennis
On 1 Aug 2008 00:19:57 GMT, Terri <Terri@micron.net> wrote:
>Dennis <dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote in
>news:2fh494d7krcngo36k443r0mfn31hihoupv@4ax.com:
>
>>
>> We've lost clucks to coyotes, raccoons and cars (why DID the chicken
>> cross the road, anyway?). The eagles and hawks like to eyeball the
>> flock, but so far haven't worked up the courage to grab anything.
>> Having a chicken-friendly farm dog helps keep the predators at bay.
>> (Do you still have your dogs?)
>
>No. I lost Luke in Jan of '06 and Mojo in July of the same year.
Sorry to hear that. I had to have my Dobie, Kylie, put down in Jan
'07. Her heart gave out at 5 years old. I guess it is fairly common
with Dobies (and Boxers). Tough couple of months watching her go
downhill.
>Taffy is our only remaining Katrina dog now and she's getting pretty
>old.
>We've added a *Carmine to the herd now. He grew up
>with geese and other birds just fine. The only birds he hates
>are peacocks.
>"Good boy Carmine, good boy."
>
>
>*Carmine is a black Lab and the best dog in the world. I may stick
>with Labs now instead of GSDs.
I had a shepherd/lab mix when I was a teenager -- the best of both
worlds!
We have a 2 y.o. Blue Heeler mix that we rescued from the pound last
summer. She is great with the kids, cats and livestock, but so far
doesn't play well with other dogs. Too isolated out here with few
opportunities to socialize, I guess.
>>
>>>I'm curious, would you do it for eggs and bug control only? With
>>>a different breed, of course.
>>
>> Try a few Americanas -- they lay cool-looking blue-green eggs (normal
>> inside).
>Are they related to the Anacondas?
>It's been so long since I've been around chicken raising endevours that I
>don't even know of some of the breeds now.
>It used to be Rhodes, Bantys or Big White ones were the only choices.
We (and really, I mean my wife -- she is the chicken herder -- I just
build coops and haul feed sacks ;-) started out with New Hampshire
Reds, but have added assorted other breeds (Leghorns, Americanas,
Polish, Banties, Barred Rock, Silkies, etc) over the years. Now it is
a just a menagerie -- some of the crosses look pretty interesting!
Dennis (evil)
--
I'm a hands-on, footloose, knee-jerk head case. -George Carlin
== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 6:45 pm
From: Marsha
Dennis wrote:
> Sorry to hear that. I had to have my Dobie, Kylie, put down in Jan
> '07. Her heart gave out at 5 years old. I guess it is fairly common
> with Dobies (and Boxers). Tough couple of months watching her go
> downhill.
>
> I had a shepherd/lab mix when I was a teenager -- the best of both
> worlds!
>
> Dennis (evil)
Sorry to horn in on your conversation, but we have a lab/shepherd and
she is definitely the best of both worlds. Feisty, compliant, large,
extremely smart, manipulative, and loyal. She's 12 now, in the winter
of her life, but still very healthy. She will be hard to replace. We
were thinking about a Dobie or a Boxer next time....maybe not?
Marsha/Ohio
== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 8:04 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com
On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 20:14:36 +0000 (UTC), Dennis <dgw80@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>Were the butchered birds at least palatable? Our experience was that
>the meat from our home-raised, free-range, home-butchered clucks was
>roughly the consistency of old boot leather. Pretty much inedible no
>matter how we cooked it (we finally just made broth and fed the rest
>to the dog and cat). My theory is that we waited too long to butcher,
>but given the initial results we haven't been very eager to try again.
>Big disappointment and, as you experienced, not cost effective. Eggs
>are much better, but still barely break even on feed costs.
Haven't felt well enough to even think about eating one yet. I do know
the breast of one of the ones I butchered felt tough. We'll see in a
few days. There are ways of cooking that make this less of a problem.
>One thing we did learn was that we could take our tough old roosters
>to the local poutry auction and get $8-10 a piece for them. I have no
>idea why people pay that for a rooster -- maybe just to add genetic
>diversity to their own flocks? Anyway, it makes an outlet for the
>excess roosters and pays for the gas to haul them to auction.
Sounds like there might be cock fights around there. Sacrificial
sparring partners perhaps?
== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 9:06 pm
From: Terri
hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote in
news:i6u394thmpk3t9knst9orafi1nmkaf2lhh@4ax.com:
I keep returning to this:
>
> Next, the price of my last 50 lb bag of grower/finisher feed at
> Tractor Supply was $15. It took a little over a week for 17 of my 14
> week old culls to go through that, plus table scraps, plus the wormy
> corn from the garden. The culls are Cobbs, which have been ruthlessly
> bred for feed to meat efficiency, so expect even higher feed costs
> from other breeds.
It's the amount of feed per week that bothers me as it seems
absolutely enormous over what I remember the grandparents
feeding their chickens. A 50 lb bag of feed for Carmine
lasts well over a month and a half around here.
Is it the breed that requires so much feed?
== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 9:12 pm
From: Terri
Dennis <dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:u9p4941map72dfri78u46kh660bh1lq8nu@4ax.com:
> On 1 Aug 2008 00:19:57 GMT, Terri <Terri@micron.net> wrote:
>
>>Dennis <dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote in
>>news:2fh494d7krcngo36k443r0mfn31hihoupv@4ax.com:
>>
>>>
>>> We've lost clucks to coyotes, raccoons and cars (why DID the chicken
>>> cross the road, anyway?). The eagles and hawks like to eyeball the
>>> flock, but so far haven't worked up the courage to grab anything.
>>> Having a chicken-friendly farm dog helps keep the predators at bay.
>>> (Do you still have your dogs?)
>>
>>No. I lost Luke in Jan of '06 and Mojo in July of the same year.
>
> Sorry to hear that. I had to have my Dobie, Kylie, put down in Jan
> '07. Her heart gave out at 5 years old. I guess it is fairly common
> with Dobies (and Boxers). Tough couple of months watching her go
> downhill.
Oh cripes, that's young! That's even worse. I'm sorry for your
loss too. As far as common, I hadn't heard of it but then neither
are my breed.
Overall, 2006 was a very bad year for me. I lost my Mom at Thanksgiving
and my brother-in-law a few months after that. Then both kids
turned out to have married abusive spouses and got divorced.
> I had a shepherd/lab mix when I was a teenager -- the best of both
> worlds!
Both are fine dogs.
>
> We have a 2 y.o. Blue Heeler mix that we rescued from the pound last
> summer. She is great with the kids, cats and livestock, but so far
> doesn't play well with other dogs. Too isolated out here with few
> opportunities to socialize, I guess.
That was part of my problem with the Sheps. They weren't good around
kids due to lack of socialization from living in the sticks. I couldn't
leave my grand-daughter anywhere near Mojo without worry so I had to keep
him away completely when she visited.
Carmine, OTOH, was raised with my grandson from the day he came
home. He's a typical boy, so Carmine has been thoroughly and completely
socialized to kids. I never, ever worry about him being around children.
== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 9:19 pm
From: Terri
Marsha <mas@xeb.net> wrote in news:g6tpsl$ckk$1@news.datemas.de:
>
> Sorry to horn in on your conversation,
Not at all! It's a public conversation and you are very welcome to join.
We were thinking about a Dobie or a Boxer next time....maybe not?
I like both but am not partial to potential droolers which is a chance
one takes with a Boxer and/or other bully breeds. I love St. Benards
too but I can't take the ones with ropey slimers hanging from their jowls.
Both are short haired, but Boxers tend to need sweaters while outside
in our winters whereas Dobes don't.
Dobes are a more clingy breed, hence the term "velcro dogs" was made up
for them. Boxers have a very winning personality in the clownish
department though, so they tend to be less serious than Dobes.
I will warn you though-my last next door neighbor had their Boxer die at
just under a year old due to renal failure. Apparently it's becoming more
common in the breed lately, or so I've heard.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: To juice or not.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/bb065ec0061ab7cd?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 4:21 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"
--
----------------------
"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice
cannot sleep forever."--Thomas Jefferson
"Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide
everything." -- Josef V. Stalin
www.myspace.com/bodybuildinggranny
heavy on the country music. if you don't like country, scroll down for
some surprises.
"Brute" <brute@ram.goat> wrote in message
news:r31494higf6h0puhrkvl4v7o9f7bgk1p42@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 16:43:33 GMT, "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"
> <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>i'd eat the whole piece of produce unless you're trying to treat some
>>sort of illness. ex: juice cabbage to treat stomach ulcers. you'll get
>>a lot more of the active ingredient you want that way.
>
> Yikes. Have you actually tasted fresh cabbage juice? That is some
> rough stuff. I had a raspy voice for an hour.
>
> It has to be diluted with some other juice or water or something.
>
well then, do that.
> "Vote McBama"
aint that the truth. two absolutely worthless choices.
== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 4:40 pm
From: Marsha
>"Vote McBama"
aint that the truth. two absolutely worthless choices.
AllEmailDeletedImmediately
No matter how disappointed people may be with McCain, the two still
differ greatly on the basics. It's McCain for me, as would be just
about any Republican over just about any Democrat.
Marsha/Ohio
== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 5:02 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"
"Marsha" <mas@xeb.net> wrote in message news:g6tihg$o68$3@news.datemas.de...
>
> >"Vote McBama"
>
> aint that the truth. two absolutely worthless choices.
>
> AllEmailDeletedImmediately
>
> No matter how disappointed people may be with McCain, the two still differ
> greatly on the basics. It's McCain for me, as would be just about any
> Republican over just about any Democrat.
>
> Marsha/Ohio
republicrat/demlican. doesn't matter. what really matters is congress.
you only think they differ on the basics. our presidents are not elected,
they're selected. the powers that be have selected whom we get to choose,
and they make sure to select only those who will toe their line. this is
why you will never have a viable third party candidate. what happened
under bush, would have happened under a dem president, or an indy, or
anyone else. they get their orders and they follow them or they die. and
the american sheople get the illusion of selection.
== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 5:40 pm
From: clams_casino
AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
>"Marsha" <mas@xeb.net> wrote in message news:g6tihg$o68$3@news.datemas.de...
>
>
>>>"Vote McBama"
>>>
>>>
>>aint that the truth. two absolutely worthless choices.
>>
>>AllEmailDeletedImmediately
>>
>>No matter how disappointed people may be with McCain, the two still differ
>>greatly on the basics. It's McCain for me, as would be just about any
>>Republican over just about any Democrat.
>>
>>Marsha/Ohio
>>
>>
You are obviously very pleased with the results of Bush leadership.
McBush is a clone, just older & less trustworthy (have you paid any
attention to McBush's flipflops?).
>
>republicrat/demlican. doesn't matter. what really matters is congress.
>you only think they differ on the basics.
>
and in the next election - the Supreme Court will be determined /
controlled for many years by whomever is elected.
> what happened
>under bush, would have happened under a dem president, or an indy, or
>anyone else.
>
In denial or just naive?
Hint - invading Iraq was GW's choice.
Hint - raiding the surplus to enrich the top 10% at the cost of everyone
else was GW's leadership via a Republican controlled Congress.
Most all the current problems can be traced to these two blunders.
== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 5:53 pm
From: Marsha
clams_casino wrote:
>> "Marsha" <mas@xeb.net> wrote in message
>>> No matter how disappointed people may be with McCain, the two still
>>> differ greatly on the basics. It's McCain for me, as would be just
>>> about any Republican over just about any Democrat.
>>>
>>> Marsha/Ohio
>>>
> You are obviously very pleased with the results of Bush leadership.
> McBush is a clone, just older & less trustworthy (have you paid any
> attention to McBush's flipflops?).
In general, yes, I am pleased. Have you paid any attention to Obama's
flipflops? He said just what he needed in order to gain the nomination
and is now changing his mind so fast, the hardliner Dems are disappointed.
Marsha/Ohio
== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 6:57 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"
"Marsha" <mas@xeb.net> wrote in message news:g6tmq9$o68$5@news.datemas.de...
> clams_casino wrote:
>
>>> "Marsha" <mas@xeb.net> wrote in message
>>>> No matter how disappointed people may be with McCain, the two still
>>>> differ greatly on the basics. It's McCain for me, as would be just
>>>> about any Republican over just about any Democrat.
>>>>
>>>> Marsha/Ohio
>>>>
>> You are obviously very pleased with the results of Bush leadership.
>> McBush is a clone, just older & less trustworthy (have you paid any
>> attention to McBush's flipflops?).
>
> In general, yes, I am pleased. Have you paid any attention to Obama's
> flipflops? He said just what he needed in order to gain the nomination
> and is now changing his mind so fast, the hardliner Dems are disappointed.
>
> Marsha/Ohio
and he's always "correcting" himself. sos (no, not help)
==============================================================================
TOPIC: What are you experiences with Liberty Mutual car/home insurance?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0c30aea067c4c768?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 4:22 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"
"Samantha Hill - remove TRASH to reply" <samhill@TRASHsonic.net> wrote in
message news:48923298$0$17189$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> Joe wrote:
>> I'm thinking of switching my car (Geico) and home (State Farm)
>> insurance to Liberty Mutual because if iI consolidate with them they
>> will save me almost 600 over using both or just going with State Farm.
>> I have good experiences with both Geico and State Farm and have none
>> with Liberty Mutual. Just wondering what kind of experiences everyone
>> here have had with Liberty Mutual before I switch.
>
> I have never made any claims on my Liberty Mutual policies, but I really
> like the customer service I get from them. And when we were getting motor
> scooters, they were quick to recommend that we get liability insurance
> from a specialty company that had lower rates rather than go with them,
> which to me is a credit to them.
previous postings thru the yrs have always extolled liberty mutual.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: How do you save money, I started with INK for my printer
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3b671e616b1da3dd?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 4:39 pm
From: Al Bundy
Dave wrote:
> "http://theeliteconnoisseurs.blogspot.com/" <onceuponaclassic@inbox.com>
> wrote in message
> news:e35d8a58-6103-4c78-8015-be3aa26a877f@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> > Funny thing is, I never would have thought about this before. I go to
> > garage sales and Goodwills, and they will be selling ink cartridges
> > any type any brand as long as they have the colors I need, they sell
> > for about 25-.99c. I made my own recyclable ink kit and I Just take
> > the ink from the cartridge and put in my cartridges. Recycled
> > cartridges for my printer cost 10.00 or 15.00 ea brand new, I need
> > four. Works like A charm and I save a bundle. At first it was so
> > messy, but then I got the hang of it. If I can find a few cheap on
> > ebay, I snatch them up. Care to share anymore money saving tips!
>
> Get yourself a cheap laser printer. We bought one roughly 5 years ago. We
> haven't replaced the ink cartridge yet. Use it daily. I don't care how
> cheaply you think you can refill your inkjet cartridges, you are not going
> to beat 5 years between refills! -Dave
I challenge your assumptions Dave, at least in my case. A decent color
laser printer in not cheap. I have half a dozen ink jets that were
casts offs from friends or curb finds. I bought a huge supply of ink
at $1/oz that will last me for years. There is a learning curve with
ink refilling. I have it down to just a few minutes and little mess.
True, I can't go five years between fills, but I also have the
reliability of redundant printers. When you absolutely positively have
to get something done, one printer or one computer is a scary thought
indeed.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: PING: Pat Meadows
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0f25aa435fc02242?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 6:20 pm
From: "nana wilson"
How R U doin'?
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 8:06 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com
On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 21:20:20 -0400, "nana wilson" <nnaoj5@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>How R U doin'?
>
Think you'll need to go into the rural living forum on yahoo to get a
response. Pat left here years ago.
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