Frugal Living: 24 new messages in 10 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
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Today's topics:

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TOPIC: earn online from home
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/48eb08bd6f651b59?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 4:54 pm
From: "www.Queensbridge.us"

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Do you have to convince people to Western Union money to Nigeria?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Do you still do your own oil change?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/00739344169b1364?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 4:55 pm
From: Vic Smith

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:14:41 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:

>>> Oil changing seems like a simple task, but when you think about it, there
>>> are a lot of ways to mess it up, and a lot of things to watch out for.
>>>
>>> -Put a big pan under the car to catch drippings
>>> -Drain the oil with the engine warm, but not hot or cold
>>> -Drain the oil, and not the automtic transmission fluid or front
>>> differential fluid (on 4WD cars)
>>> -Ensure that the old oil can get into the collection container fast enough
>>> (remove the second cap from the container so air can exit.
>>> -Remove the filler cap while draining
>>> -Remove the filter without spilling the oil inside the filter all over the
>>> engine compartment
>>> -Ensure that the old oil filter gasket didn't remain behind
>>> -Clean the surface where the gasket contacts
>>> -Get the filter from the dealer, not an after-market filter
>>> -Get the right filter
>>> -Oil the gasket on the new filter
>>> -Don't crush the new filter with a strap wrench
>>> -Don't over-tighten or under-tighten the new filter
>>> -Don't cross-thread the new filter
>>> -Don't lose the drain plug in the oil container
>>> -Remove the old drain plug gasket.
>>> -Clean the surface where the drain plug gasket contact the oil pan
>>> -Use a new drain plug gasket
>>> -Use the right size and material of drain plug gasket
>>> -Don't over-tighten or under-tighten the drain plug
>>> -Don't cross thread the drain plug
>>> -Use the proper weight oil
>>> -Use the proper amount of oil
>>> -Pour the oil into the right place
>>> -Don't spill the new oil all over the engine
>>> -Don't over-fill or under-fill
>>> -Remember to put the drain plug back in before you put in the new oil
>>> -Pour the used oil into containers for recycling without spilling it
>>
Sounds like a job best left to the pros at Jiffy Lube..
Less chance of a screw-up, since they do it all day.
BTW, you forgot at least 10 items I could rattle off instantly, but I
don't want to encourage oil change check-lists for amateurs.

--Vic

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 6:08 pm
From: "Dave L"

"Vic Smith" <thismailautodeleted@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:72ttc4ldlm690dm3qi5rlvp13d7rvf2a6i@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:14:41 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>>> Oil changing seems like a simple task, but when you think about it,
>>>> there
>>>> are a lot of ways to mess it up, and a lot of things to watch out for.
>>>>
>>>> -Put a big pan under the car to catch drippings
>>>> -Drain the oil with the engine warm, but not hot or cold
>>>> -Drain the oil, and not the automtic transmission fluid or front
>>>> differential fluid (on 4WD cars)
>>>> -Ensure that the old oil can get into the collection container fast
>>>> enough
>>>> (remove the second cap from the container so air can exit.
>>>> -Remove the filler cap while draining
>>>> -Remove the filter without spilling the oil inside the filter all over
>>>> the
>>>> engine compartment
>>>> -Ensure that the old oil filter gasket didn't remain behind
>>>> -Clean the surface where the gasket contacts
>>>> -Get the filter from the dealer, not an after-market filter
>>>> -Get the right filter
>>>> -Oil the gasket on the new filter
>>>> -Don't crush the new filter with a strap wrench
>>>> -Don't over-tighten or under-tighten the new filter
>>>> -Don't cross-thread the new filter
>>>> -Don't lose the drain plug in the oil container
>>>> -Remove the old drain plug gasket.
>>>> -Clean the surface where the drain plug gasket contact the oil pan
>>>> -Use a new drain plug gasket
>>>> -Use the right size and material of drain plug gasket
>>>> -Don't over-tighten or under-tighten the drain plug
>>>> -Don't cross thread the drain plug
>>>> -Use the proper weight oil
>>>> -Use the proper amount of oil
>>>> -Pour the oil into the right place
>>>> -Don't spill the new oil all over the engine
>>>> -Don't over-fill or under-fill
>>>> -Remember to put the drain plug back in before you put in the new oil
>>>> -Pour the used oil into containers for recycling without spilling it
>>>
> Sounds like a job best left to the pros at Jiffy Lube..
> Less chance of a screw-up, since they do it all day.
> BTW, you forgot at least 10 items I could rattle off instantly, but I
> don't want to encourage oil change check-lists for amateurs.
>
> --Vic

Pros at Jiffy Lube????

Let's see... back in the day, they blew a fuse or something on my brother's
Mitsubishi and it was a dealer only part. Only 2 in Baltimore. Closer one
didn't have the part so they had to drive about 35 minutes away to get it,
bring it back, put it in, etc.... All while we had to sit there and wait.

They forgot to put the oil cap back onto his old room-mate's car - spewed
oil all over the engine compartment before he found out. Who knows if any
damage was done to the engine?

When local hardware stores used to be more common, we knew the owner. He
took his pick up truck to a Jiffy Lube and they forgot to put the drain plug
back in. Driving down the highway, his engine seizes. JL had to buy him an
engine.

All these are true experiences, but they date back from the mid to later
'80s. I've maybe been there once or twice in the early 90s but never been
back. They always try to sell you things you don't need or just had done.
A local Firestone tried to do that to me too. I try not to go to these
chain places unless it is an emergency, and I'll try to keep an eye on them.
It also pays to know the maintenance done on your car. There's a Jiffy Lube
link floating around showing a television news program taking a car they to
them with a hidden camera. The car was just inspected by their own mechanic
before going. So many un-needed services sold, and also sold but not even
done. Example, they'll tell you the car needs a tranny flush and bill you
for it. The whole time the camera is on the car, and this was never done.
There were a handfull of JL tested and IIRC, most failed.

Not saying all JL, Firestone or chain stores are like this since there are
good ones. But nothing beats good word of mouth and often it'll be your
independent shop. Ask people you know and trust. If you're frugal enough,
an oil change is an easy DIY job.

<stepping down from soapbox>
-Dave

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 6:50 pm
From: Vic Smith

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:08:46 -0400, "Dave L"
<davelieuREMOVEME@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>Pros at Jiffy Lube????
>
>Let's see... back in the day, they blew a fuse or something on my brother's
>Mitsubishi and it was a dealer only part. Only 2 in Baltimore. Closer one
>didn't have the part so they had to drive about 35 minutes away to get it,
>bring it back, put it in, etc.... All while we had to sit there and wait.
>
>They forgot to put the oil cap back onto his old room-mate's car - spewed
>oil all over the engine compartment before he found out. Who knows if any
>damage was done to the engine?
>
>When local hardware stores used to be more common, we knew the owner. He
>took his pick up truck to a Jiffy Lube and they forgot to put the drain plug
>back in. Driving down the highway, his engine seizes. JL had to buy him an
>engine.
>
>All these are true experiences, but they date back from the mid to later
>'80s. I've maybe been there once or twice in the early 90s but never been
>back. They always try to sell you things you don't need or just had done.
>A local Firestone tried to do that to me too. I try not to go to these
>chain places unless it is an emergency, and I'll try to keep an eye on them.
>It also pays to know the maintenance done on your car. There's a Jiffy Lube
>link floating around showing a television news program taking a car they to
>them with a hidden camera. The car was just inspected by their own mechanic
>before going. So many un-needed services sold, and also sold but not even
>done. Example, they'll tell you the car needs a tranny flush and bill you
>for it. The whole time the camera is on the car, and this was never done.
>There were a handfull of JL tested and IIRC, most failed.
>
>Not saying all JL, Firestone or chain stores are like this since there are
>good ones. But nothing beats good word of mouth and often it'll be your
>independent shop. Ask people you know and trust. If you're frugal enough,
>an oil change is an easy DIY job.
>
><stepping down from soapbox>
>-Dave
>
Probably 100 cars screwed up by DIY'ers for every one by Jiffy Lube.
I use them when on the road. They're like a military operation.
DRAIN PLUG REMOVED!!
CHECK!!
DRAINING!!
CHECK!!
FILTER OFF!!
CHECK!!
DRAIN COMPLETE!!
CHECK!!
etc, etc
DIY is fine, but Jiffy Lube ain't like Russian Roulette.
I always do a check for leaks/oil level shortly after they do a
change. Just like if I did it myself.
If they try to sell me something else, I just say no.
Not a problem.
BTW, I have no association with Jiffy Lube and prefer to change my oil
myself. It saves a few bucks, and gives me a chance to routinely
check other maintenance items. Nothing wrong with an hour in my
garage sipping a beer - or iced tea.

--Vic

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 8:10 pm
From: "Dave L"

"Vic Smith" <thismailautodeleted@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:733uc4tg68o2savgv93getmak79fkoo289@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:08:46 -0400, "Dave L"
> <davelieuREMOVEME@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Pros at Jiffy Lube????
>>
>>Let's see... back in the day, they blew a fuse or something on my
>>brother's
>>Mitsubishi and it was a dealer only part. Only 2 in Baltimore. Closer
>>one
>>didn't have the part so they had to drive about 35 minutes away to get it,
>>bring it back, put it in, etc.... All while we had to sit there and wait.
>>
>>They forgot to put the oil cap back onto his old room-mate's car - spewed
>>oil all over the engine compartment before he found out. Who knows if any
>>damage was done to the engine?
>>
>>When local hardware stores used to be more common, we knew the owner. He
>>took his pick up truck to a Jiffy Lube and they forgot to put the drain
>>plug
>>back in. Driving down the highway, his engine seizes. JL had to buy him
>>an
>>engine.
>>
>>All these are true experiences, but they date back from the mid to later
>>'80s. I've maybe been there once or twice in the early 90s but never been
>>back. They always try to sell you things you don't need or just had done.
>>A local Firestone tried to do that to me too. I try not to go to these
>>chain places unless it is an emergency, and I'll try to keep an eye on
>>them.
>>It also pays to know the maintenance done on your car. There's a Jiffy
>>Lube
>>link floating around showing a television news program taking a car they
>>to
>>them with a hidden camera. The car was just inspected by their own
>>mechanic
>>before going. So many un-needed services sold, and also sold but not even
>>done. Example, they'll tell you the car needs a tranny flush and bill you
>>for it. The whole time the camera is on the car, and this was never done.
>>There were a handfull of JL tested and IIRC, most failed.
>>
>>Not saying all JL, Firestone or chain stores are like this since there are
>>good ones. But nothing beats good word of mouth and often it'll be your
>>independent shop. Ask people you know and trust. If you're frugal
>>enough,
>>an oil change is an easy DIY job.
>>
>><stepping down from soapbox>
>>-Dave
>>
> Probably 100 cars screwed up by DIY'ers for every one by Jiffy Lube.
> I use them when on the road. They're like a military operation.
> DRAIN PLUG REMOVED!!
> CHECK!!
> DRAINING!!
> CHECK!!
> FILTER OFF!!
> CHECK!!
> DRAIN COMPLETE!!
> CHECK!!
> etc, etc
> DIY is fine, but Jiffy Lube ain't like Russian Roulette.
> I always do a check for leaks/oil level shortly after they do a
> change. Just like if I did it myself.
> If they try to sell me something else, I just say no.
> Not a problem.
> BTW, I have no association with Jiffy Lube and prefer to change my oil
> myself. It saves a few bucks, and gives me a chance to routinely
> check other maintenance items. Nothing wrong with an hour in my
> garage sipping a beer - or iced tea.
>
> --Vic

True, it can be handy especially while on the road. The fact you have to
watch them and decline their other services. Not everyone will know to do
that and many are taken advantage of. Another big pain of changing the oil
yourself - taking the used oil to recycle. They are not all or always bad,
but it only takes a few to give others a bad name.

Been years since I've bothered changing the oil myself - harder to do while
living in a condo and don't need to worry about disposing of the oil. I
normally take it to a local garage I know/trust or the dealer I have a good
relationship with. Either way it's cheaper than JL but I sometimes need to
make an appointment. For my personal piece of mind, it's worth it.

I googled the old clip from 2006. To see the videos, just clink the links
at the beginning of the article.
http://www.knbc.com/news/9265933/detail.html
And yes, this is true:
http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/scams/jiffylube.asp

-Dave

==============================================================================
TOPIC: I am losing my butt
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2b88d0c3914417a6?hl=en
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== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 6:12 pm
From: timeOday

"Personal Rate of Return from 01/01/2008 to 09/12/2008 is -16.2%"

Yeow. And this isn't some crazy hedge fund, it's a collection of index
funds.

It's a good thing we know wealth doesn't equal happiness around here, eh?

All I can say is, it's a good thing I'm too young to retire anytime soon.

== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 6:51 pm
From: clams_casino

timeOday wrote:

>
>
> "Personal Rate of Return from 01/01/2008 to 09/12/2008 is -16.2%"
>
>
> Yeow. And this isn't some crazy hedge fund, it's a collection of
> index funds.
>
> It's a good thing we know wealth doesn't equal happiness around here, eh?
>
> All I can say is, it's a good thing I'm too young to retire anytime soon.

Remember when the Republican rage was to replace social security and
pensions with stock market investments?

== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 6:58 pm
From: Vic Smith

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:51:23 -0400, clams_casino
<PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:

>timeOday wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> "Personal Rate of Return from 01/01/2008 to 09/12/2008 is -16.2%"
>>
>>
>> Yeow. And this isn't some crazy hedge fund, it's a collection of
>> index funds.
>>
>> It's a good thing we know wealth doesn't equal happiness around here, eh?
>>
>> All I can say is, it's a good thing I'm too young to retire anytime soon.
>
>
>Remember when the Republican rage was to replace social security and
>pensions with stock market investments?

Some like to call SS a Ponzi scheme.
Others think the same about the Wall Street casino.

--Vic

== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 8:50 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In article <6KWdncvPF5ZcmlLVnZ2dnUVZ_j2dnZ2d@comcast.com>, timeOday wrote:
>
>"Personal Rate of Return from 01/01/2008 to 09/12/2008 is -16.2%"
>
>Yeow. And this isn't some crazy hedge fund, it's a collection of index
>funds.

And what was its rate of return in the past 20 and 30 years? What was
its rate of return in its worst 30-year stretch?
Go ahead and apply the methodology of this to years and decades prior to
when it existed - what was the worst 30 year stretch since the indexex
were created? Since the S&P 500 was created?

And in the past 30 years or any other 30 year stretch, how has stock
investing to a broad market index fared compared to bonds, CDs, real
estate or precious metals?

If you distrust the USA stock market to fare well in the modern world,
then invest into broad diverse international stock mutual funds!

Otherwise see how well (if existing that far back, using its rules and
expense ratios that it had when it existed) Vanguard "Index 500" or better
still Vanguard "Index Total" would have for one *now*, if bought into even
at the 1929 or 1971 highs!

S&P 500 if bought into at the 1929 high and sold at the 1982 low, with
reinvestment of dividends, would have achieved annual rate of return
around 7%. On average long term real estate historically did not do that
well, with exception for "investment real estate" that includes both
capital appreciation and rent collection!

Index funds have a bit of an advantage in taxable accounts - lower
turnover rate means more years of gains to compound tax-deferred.
Especially this is true when the index fund is a total USA stiock market
one such as Vanguard "Index Total", so that the fund does not sell stocks
as they move from one to another index other than Wilshire 5000 that is
designed to represent close to all USA publicly traded stock value.

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 9:02 pm
From: timeOday

clams_casino wrote:
> timeOday wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> "Personal Rate of Return from 01/01/2008 to 09/12/2008 is -16.2%"
>>
>>
>> Yeow. And this isn't some crazy hedge fund, it's a collection of
>> index funds.
>>
>> It's a good thing we know wealth doesn't equal happiness around here, eh?
>>
>> All I can say is, it's a good thing I'm too young to retire anytime soon.
>
>
> Remember when the Republican rage was to replace social security and
> pensions with stock market investments?

But what would happen if the US economy takes a long-term turn for the
worse? SS benefits would have to come into line with the new, lower
standard of living of working people anyways.

Demographics are changing. No matter how you rejigger the numbers, it
still boils down to workers supporting retirees. Even if every retiree
stacks up a pile of cash, they can't spend it unless somebody is ready
and willing to take a job cooking meals, changing bedpans, etc.

There really are no guarantees. Even if the FDIC guarantees your bank
deposits against bank failures, your deposits aren't guaranteed against
inflation, nor devaluation of the dollar.

All that said, yeah, the markets are way too volatile for people in or
very near retirement.

== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 9:15 pm
From: lisajoe@privacy.net

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:02:54 -0600, in misc.consumers.frugal-living timeOday
<timeOday-UNspam@theknack.net> wrote:

>Demographics are changing. No matter how you rejigger the numbers, it
>still boils down to workers supporting retirees. Even if every retiree
>stacks up a pile of cash, they can't spend it unless somebody is ready
>and willing to take a job cooking meals, changing bedpans, etc.

Just take a tiny percent away from the war effort and put it on SS and SS is
just fine. The rich eat us..

== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 9:23 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

timeOday <timeOday-UNspam@theknack.net> wrote
> clams_casino wrote
>> timeOday wrote

>>> "Personal Rate of Return from 01/01/2008 to 09/12/2008 is -16.2%"

>>> Yeow. And this isn't some crazy hedge fund, it's a collection of index funds.

>>> It's a good thing we know wealth doesn't equal happiness around here, eh?

>>> All I can say is, it's a good thing I'm too young to retire anytime soon.

>> Remember when the Republican rage was to replace social security and pensions with stock market investments?

> But what would happen if the US economy takes a long-term turn for the worse?

That isnt going to happen any half century soon, and when it does, you'll be dead.

> SS benefits would have to come into line with the new, lower standard of living of working people anyways.

That isnt what has happened with economys that have seen a long term turn for the worse.

> Demographics are changing.

They always do. Any properly designed system allows for that.

> No matter how you rejigger the numbers, it
> still boils down to workers supporting retirees.

No it doesnt, plenty have more for their time past work than just social security.

Its only the dregs that end up entirely dependant on social security.

> Even if every retiree stacks up a pile of cash, they can't spend it unless somebody
> is ready and willing to take a job cooking meals, changing bedpans, etc.

Wrong again. They can spend it on what they provide for themselves instead.

> There really are no guarantees.

Yes there are. The great democracys survived two world wars, the great depression and
countless other smaller wars fine and we have worked out how to avoid depressions now
and even if we do have another, it will be much easier to take than the great depression was.

And we wont see another world war either.

> Even if the FDIC guarantees your bank deposits against bank failures, your deposits aren't guaranteed against
> inflation, nor devaluation of the dollar.

They can be guaranteed against both if you organise them properly.

> All that said, yeah, the markets are way too volatile for people in or very near retirement.

Wrong again. All those close to retirement have to do is avoid the most volatile markets.

== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 10:49 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 03:50:02 +0000 (UTC), don@manx.misty.com (Don
Klipstein) wrote:

> If you distrust the USA stock market to fare well in the modern world,
>then invest into broad diverse international stock mutual funds!

Don, the problems are global at this point. Citing past performance
of the market isn't a valid barometer anymore. The performance of the
stock market(s) has not been actual performance for a number of years,
probably starting in the Nixon years. In the more recent past, the
combination of derivatives and unsafe lending practices has
artificially inflated the market and the values of certain key
companies. Derivatives should NEVER have been allowed as financial
instruments.

Monday's market going down was bad, but if things go the way I expect,
a retrenchment back to a resistance point on the DOW at 10,000 is
likely, and then if that is broken, down to the 7,000 mark -
_provided_ that the market plunge doesn't irreperably break some of
the manufacturing sector. Retail will be messy, but can sort itself
out over time.

Be aware that if WaMu fails, there will be some serious stress on the
FDIC, which is only funded to 50B. The amount of insured deposits
that money has to cover in all insured banks is on the order of 1T.
If Congress ups the funding to the FDIC, that will be a big signal
that money will soon start being worth a lot less, and there could be
more unraveling of the phantom economy.

I hope the heck that my concerns from well over a year ago don't prove
to be valid, since I don't see any indication that either of the two
candidates is capable of pulling us out of the swamp.

One thing that *really* bugs me is that the media keeps calling our
economic woes a "Crisis of Confidence" as if it was the fault of the
average Joe not believeing in Peter Pan hard enough. More accurately,
it is a "Crisis of Con Games," where the cons of the past bankers,
economists, and government entities are being exposed to the light of
day and have begun dissolving.

== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 10:15 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In <fqguc41nngv5034nvnivd21u6t2eq33ji5@4ax.com>, hchickpea@hotmail.com
wrote:
>On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 03:50:02 +0000 (UTC), don@manx.misty.com (Don
>Klipstein) wrote:
>
>> If you distrust the USA stock market to fare well in the modern world,
>>then invest into broad diverse international stock mutual funds!
>
>Don, the problems are global at this point. Citing past performance
>of the market isn't a valid barometer anymore. The performance of the
>stock market(s) has not been actual performance for a number of years,
>probably starting in the Nixon years.

The USA broad stock market has actrually done fairly well from the 1971
high to now.

> In the more recent past, the
>combination of derivatives and unsafe lending practices has
>artificially inflated the market and the values of certain key
>companies. Derivatives should NEVER have been allowed as financial
>instruments.

This appears to me to be a modern-time-specific USA-specific problem.
Broad market stock investing over larger timeframes and/or larger portion
of the industrialized world solves that.
Keep in mind that derivatives are not a part of any major stock index,
and major/significant stock index mutual funds only use derivatives to
at most the extent to simulate 100% investment into the indexed stocks
while keeping some cash on hand for handling withdrawals.

>Monday's market going down was bad, but if things go the way I expect,
>a retrenchment back to a resistance point on the DOW at 10,000 is
>likely, and then if that is broken, down to the 7,000 mark -
>_provided_ that the market plunge doesn't irreperably break some of
>the manufacturing sector. Retail will be messy, but can sort itself
>out over time.
>
>Be aware that if WaMu fails, there will be some serious stress on the
>FDIC, which is only funded to 50B. The amount of insured deposits
>that money has to cover in all insured banks is on the order of 1T.
>If Congress ups the funding to the FDIC, that will be a big signal
>that money will soon start being worth a lot less, and there could be
>more unraveling of the phantom economy.
>
>I hope the heck that my concerns from well over a year ago don't prove
>to be valid, since I don't see any indication that either of the two
>candidates is capable of pulling us out of the swamp.
>
>One thing that *really* bugs me is that the media keeps calling our
>economic woes a "Crisis of Confidence" as if it was the fault of the
>average Joe not believeing in Peter Pan hard enough. More accurately,
>it is a "Crisis of Con Games," where the cons of the past bankers,
>economists, and government entities are being exposed to the light of
>day and have begun dissolving.

The USA stock market has provided good returns even through the Great
Depression, WWII and Nixon and Carter!

If you think that America is now going down long-term, then invest in
index or otherwise-well-diversified funds that are international in
nature!

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ?? broadcast teevee alternatives
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3b1ab11ca6ca6e9d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 8:14 pm
From: Derald

Gordon <gonzo@alltomyself.com> wrote:

>Look for the Un-plug your cableTV thread in the archives.
I bet I've tried all of the "watch teevee for free on your
computer" sites on the planet, including many that are maintained by
commercial programming entities, and found them to be universally
bo-oh-gus. I'm not interested in some Rumanian's home movies, closeups
of some coed's snapper, some retardo's anime, teaser clips, o-o-old
episodes of o-o-old programs, or yesterday's soap tomorrow. Besides,
"subscription" to either service is a buyout and is less than many pay
their cable or satellite services each month for essentially nothing.
Although, I don't think I'd be interested in some proprietary p2p
network (for example), I don't care whether either or both of the
services is stealing or bootlegging satellite signals as long as it is
reliable; an issue, it seems to me, that only one with
>actual experience with either
is qualified to address, eh?
--
HTH,
Derald

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Facts on Georgia-Russia conflict expose Bush's continual lying.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/163a0b9c89b58f8b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 8:19 pm
From: chief_thracian@yahoo.com (Chief Thracian)

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:50:17 -0700 (PDT), Al Bundy
<MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote:

>Like the bad girl said to the good girl, "Is it hard to be good?"
>She answered, "It has to be hard to be good."

How nice to have a diry old man in this group! So VERY frugal.

--
Zeke Krahlin
http://www.gay-bible.org

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Reviving dried-out typewriter ribbon
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/89180a8ec5f21724?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 8:23 pm
From: chief_thracian@yahoo.com (Chief Thracian)

On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 10:07:20 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
<angelicapaganelli@hotmail.com> wrote:

>So, what kind of emergency do you envision
>wherein electricity would be unavailable and
>yet typewriting would be important?

You're a prisoner in a fortune cookie factory? :b

--
Steal This Blog!
http://www.gay-bible.org/steal

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 8:40 pm
From: timeOday

Chief Thracian wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 10:07:20 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> <angelicapaganelli@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> So, what kind of emergency do you envision
>> wherein electricity would be unavailable and
>> yet typewriting would be important?
>
> You're a prisoner in a fortune cookie factory? :b
>
>

Unabomber?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Few safeguards for Mexican produce heading north
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8ada0822041423c5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 8:35 pm
From: chief_thracian@yahoo.com (Chief Thracian)

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 02:44:58 -0700 (PDT), hpope@lycos.com wrote:

>On Sep 14, 10:32=A0am, Don Gabacho <jpast...@nettaxi.com> wrote:
>> Few safeguards for Mexican produce heading north

Who cares? Food will soon become unaffordable for everyone. ALL food.

Except perhaps canned pet food from China.

Badda-boom badda-bing.

--
Steal This Blog!
http://www.gay-bible.org/steal

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Reusing Water
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/fd655be017f95057?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 9:14 pm
From: "Don K"

"Dave" <noway@nohow.not> wrote in message news:gaj61k$44s$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>
> "Lou" <loupark@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:7913a6c3-5648-4c1c-b0b4-5fb692cd5b84@73g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>> I'm trying to think of a way to use bath and shower water to water the
>> lawn. Has anyone come across a household underground system either
>> professional or home made that could be retrofitted?
>> Lou
>
> Why not just get a cheap sump pump, hook it up to a garden hose, and drape the hose out
> the bathroom window? When you take a shower, leave the drain closed. When you are done
> taking bath or shower, dip the sump pump inlet into the water, fire it up, and let it
> empty through a sprinkler onto the lawn.
>
> Note that you do not want the sump pump in the shower/bath, or nearby where it can fall
> into the shower/bath, as normally you don't want an electrical appliance to take a bath
> with you. But you can keep it in the bathroom somewhere handy. -Dave

There's no need for a pump. Just siphon it out thru the hose.

Don

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Dry pet food recalled due to harboring Salmonella
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ac49610c6ba81d91?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 9:45 pm
From: letterman@invalid.com

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 06:10:01 -0700 (PDT), ultimauw@live.com wrote:

>http://consumerist.com/5048263/14-brands-of-pet-food-recalled
>
>
>Mars Petcare US is recalling 14 brands of dry dog and cat food made
>between February and July of this year, after two people who may have
>had contact with some of the food became infected with Salmonella. If
>you feed your dog or cat any of the brands listed below, here's how to
>check the package code.
>
>Recalled brands:
>
> * Pedigree
> * Ol' Roy
> * Retriever
> * Paws & Claws
> * Member's Mark
> * Natural Dog Food
> * Natural Cat Food
> * Doggy Bag
> * PMI Nutrition
> * Red Flannel
> * PetPride
> * Special Kitty
> * Country Acres
> * Wegman's Bruiser
> * Wegman's Buju & Ziggie
>
>
>
>To check whether the package you have is part of the recall, look at
>the code under the "Best Before" date.
>
>(more info on site)

Has anyone noticed that almost all of these contaminated and recalled
human and pet foods in recent years is ALWAYS the stuff sold at
Walmart. Just one of several reasons I will not buy any foods from
Walmart anymore.

The following are sold at Walmart
* Pedigree
* Ol' Roy
* PetPride
* Special Kitty
(possibly more)

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 10:03 pm
From: Mark Anderson

In article letterman@invalid.com says...
> Has anyone noticed that almost all of these contaminated and recalled
> human and pet foods in recent years is ALWAYS the stuff sold at
> Walmart. Just one of several reasons I will not buy any foods from
> Walmart anymore.
>
> The following are sold at Walmart
> * Pedigree
> * Ol' Roy
> * PetPride
> * Special Kitty

Pedigree is sold at more stores than Wal Mart. I'm not sure about the
others. My dogs only get the 40lb bags of Pedigree small chunks dry
food. I did check one of the new bags I bought a few weeks ago but
haven't yet opened and it had a use by date of 09/2009. Consumerists
say the Pedigree bags in question have a use by date of 02/2009. Since
February 2009 is only a few months away (imagine that) most likely all
the recalled bags have already been eaten. I have a dry food bin so I
throw out the bag once the old food is gone and the new food goes into
the bin but it is very possible that my last bag was use by 02/2009 or
the bag before that. So far my dogs haven't gotten sick.

Perhaps Wal Mart sells old bags of pet food -- I don't know. I refuse
to shop at a store who has done much, including lobbying Washington, to
sell out America to the Chinese for a few pieces of silver.

ObFrugalLiving: I don't actually throw out the old bag, I use it as a
garbage bag. These bags have a thick plastic liner that make for a
fantastic garbage bag since nothing ever leaks out of them.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 10:37 pm
From: "h"

"Mark Anderson" <mea@nospambrandylion.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.2338fa0ab294d54a989ac3@chi.news.speakeasy.net...
> In article letterman@invalid.com says...
>> Has anyone noticed that almost all of these contaminated and recalled
>> human and pet foods in recent years is ALWAYS the stuff sold at
>> Walmart. Just one of several reasons I will not buy any foods from
>> Walmart anymore.
>>
>> The following are sold at Walmart
>> * Pedigree
>> * Ol' Roy
>> * PetPride
>> * Special Kitty

My two cats were poisoned last March by the Special Kitty (Walmart) pouch
brand. They both lived, but they're still on meds and I'm out over $3k and
climbing. I still buy pouch cat food at Walmart, but only Purina brand,
since Purina (supposedly) controls all the ingredients of their products,
and nothing comes from China.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: help please
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/da20ade9242f8253?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 15 2008 10:17 pm
From: "dmax5646@gmail.com"

make that free money

BEST WAY TO EARN EXTRA POCKET CASH!
Turn $6 into $600,000 OR MORE! : MAKE QUICK EASY MONEY FAST! EARN
LOADS OF MONEY, HONESTLY, FAIRLY, AND LEGALLY! Greetings All, I found
this on a bulletin board and decided to try it: A little while back, I
was browsing through news groups and e-mails just like you are now,
and came across an article similar to this that said you can make
thousands of dollars within weeks with only an initial investment of
$6.00. So I thought, yeah right, this must be a scam, but like most of
us, I was curious, so I kept reading. Anyway, it said that you send
$1.00 to each of the six names and addresses stated in the article.
You then place your own name and address on the bottom of the list and
post the article in at least 200 news groups, also known as Message
Boards. {There are hundreds of thousands}. No catch, that was it. So
after thinking it over, I thought about trying it. I figured, what
have I got to lose, except six stamps and $6.00, right? Then I
invested the measly $6.00. WELL GUESS WHAT? Within seven days, I
started getting money in the mail I was in awe. I figured it would end
soon, but the money just kept coming in. In my first week I made about
$47.00. By the end of the second week I had made a total of more than
one thousand dollars. In the third week I had considerably more than
the previous week and it is still growing! As the weeks go on, the
money grows more and more. It is certainly worth the six-dollar
investment and six stamps! Let me explain how this works and most
important, why it works. Also, make sure you print this article out or
save it to your computer NOW, so you can get the information. I
promise you that if you follow the directions exactly you will start
making more money than you thought possible by doing something so
easy. Suggestion: Read this entire message carefully, and follow the
simple directions and watch as the money comes in. It is easy, it is
legal, and your investment is only $6.00 plus postage. Important: This
is not a rip-off, it is decent, it is legal; and it is virtually
without any risk-it really works! PLEASE NOTE: Please follow the
directions EXACTLY, and 50-thousand-dollars or more can be yours in 30
to 60 days. This program remains successful because of the
participants. Please continue its success by carefully adhering to the
instructions. You will now become a part of the Mail Order business.
You are in the business of developing Mailing Lists. Many large
corporations are happy to pay big bucks for quality lists. However,
this money made from the mailing lists is secondary to income, which
is made from people like you and me asking to be included on that
list. Here Are The Four Easy Steps To Success. Step 1 - Get six (6)
separate pieces of paper and write the following on each piece of
paper. "PLEASE PUT ME ON YOUR MAILING LIST" Now get six (6) U.S.1.00
bills and place one inside of each of the six pieces of paper so the
bill will not be seen through the envelope (to prevent thievery).
Next, place one paper in each of the six envelopes and seal them with
the dollar bill enclosed. You now should have six sealed envelopes
each with a piece of paper stating the above phrase and a $1.00 bill
enclosed in each envelope. What you are doing is creating a service-
THIS IS ABSOLUTELY LEGAL! You are requesting a legitimate service and
you are paying for it. Clearly, I was a little skeptical and a little
worried about the legal aspects of it all. Therefore, I checked it out
with the U.S. Postal Service (1-800-275-8777) and they confirmed that
it is indeed legal.
Step 2 - Mail the six envelopes to the following addresses:
[1] Michael Miller, 3012 6th. Ave. Huntington, WV 25702
[2] Anita Charms, 397 Broadway #2, Somerville, MA 02145
[3] James Trice, 118 Highland Dr. Madisonville, KY 42431
[4] AJ Cassant, 944 Highland St. Syracuse, NY 13203
(5)Jansen Arnold, 2643 Hilltop Dr. Saint Albans, WV 25177
(6)John James 3104 Bowling Green Drive, Virginia Beach, VA 23452
Step 3 - Now take the first name off the list that you see above, move
the other names up (6 becomes 5, 5 becomes 4, 4 becomes 3, and etc.)
and add YOUR NAME as number 6 on the list. Change anything you need
to, but try to keep this article as close to the original as possible.
Now post your amended article to at least 200 news groups. All you
need is 200, but remember, the more you post, the more money you will
make! This is perfectly legal. If you have any doubts, refer to Title
18 Section 1302 & 1341 of the Postal Lottery Laws. Keep a copy of
these directions for yourself and whenever you need money you can
reuse it again. NOTE: You may want to retain every name and address
sent to you, either on a computer or hard copy and keep the notes
people send you. This VERIFIES that you are truly providing a service.
Also, it is a good practice to wrap the $1.00 bill in dark paper to
avoid the risk of mail theft. So, as each post is downloaded and the
directions carefully followed, all members will be reimbursed for
their participation as a List Developer with one dollar each. Your
name will be moved up the list geometrically so that when your name
reaches the #1 position you will be receiving Thousands of Dollars in
Cash! What an opportunity for only six-dollars ($6), one-dollar ($1)
for each of the six people listed above. Send it now, add your own
name to the list and you are in business. Directions For How To Post
To News Groups:- Simply put your cursor at the very beginning of this
letter, click the left mouse button once and keep holding it. While
holding the mouse button, drag your cursor to the end of this
document. Now go to the edit menu and click "Copy". Now open a blank
notepad file or any other document file, go to the edit menu and click
"paste". This will paste a copy of this letter into the notepad so
that you will be able to add your name to the list. Save your new
notepad file as a text File, if you want to do your posting in
different settings, you will always have this file to go back to. Use
Netscape or Internet explorer and try searching for various new groups
(on-line forums, message boards, chat sites, discussions). Visit these
message boards and post this article as a new message by highlighting
the text of this letter and selecting paste from the edit menu. Fill
in the subject, this will be the header that everyone sees as they
scroll through the list of postings in a particular group, click the
post message button. You are finished you have finished your first
posting. Congratulations! THATS IT. All you have to do is jump news
groups and post away, after you get the hang of it, it will take about
30 seconds for each news group. ***REMEMBER THE MORE NEWS GROUPS YOU
POST IN, THE MORE MONEY YOU WILL MAKE! *** IT IS A MUST FOR YOU TO
POST A MINIMUM OF 200. That's It! You will begin receiving money from
around the world within days. You may eventually want to rent a P.O.
Box due to the heavy volume of mail you will be receiving, but you can
do it from your home. If you wish to remain anonymous you can adopt
another name to use, if it's agreeable with the postman to deliver the
mail. MAKE CERTAIN THAT ALL ADDRESSES ARE CORRECT. Now the Why part:-
Assume for example you get a 7.5% return, which is very conservative.
Please view the following estimated breakdowns. Estimated breakdowns:-
When you mail 200 letters, 15 people will send you $1.00 Those 15 mail
out 200 letters, 225 people will mail you $1.00 Those 225 mail out 200
letters, 3,375 people will mail you $1.00 Those 3,375 mail out 200
letters, 50,625 people will mail you $1.00 Those 50,625 mail out 200
letters, 759,375 people will mail you $1.00 By now your name has
dropped off the list, but so far you have received at least $759,375.
With an original investment of only $6.00 [plus postage]. AMAZING! You
have to remember and realize that thousands of people all over the
world are joining the Internet and reading these articles every day,
JUST LIKE YOU right now. So you can get $6.00 and turn it into
thousands and thousands! Remember: The ticket is to keep it going!!!

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Tuesday, September 16, 2008

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