Frugal Living: misc.consumers.frugal-living - 15 new messages in 8 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Do you want your tax money to pay a forklift operator $103,000.00 a
year
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/ddfc45ecb2d7616d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 8:08 pm
From: "Fred Lorenzen"

<TruthTeller@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:PilVk.1804$4g5.101@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
: In
<72046dc7-e3c0-42f8-9c71-2016d2aa2700@l39g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, on
: 11/20/2008
: at 12:40 PM, Daniel <sabot120mm@hotmail.com> said:
:
:
:
: >On Nov 20, 12:05 pm, TruthTel...@nospam.net wrote:
: >> In
<19d19ad2-38a9-47d7-8e77-b11665ab2...@s20g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, on
: >> 11/20/2008
: >> at 08:57 AM, Daniel <sabot12...@hotmail.com> said:
: >>
: >>
: >>
: >>
: >>
: >> >On Nov 19, 9:34 pm, BE-VA <blackwater-evangal...@testland.net>
wrote: >
: >> >On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:23:55 -0800 (PST), Daniel
: >>
: >> >> <sabot12...@hotmail.com> wrote:
: >> >> >On Nov 18, 5:22 pm, TruthTel...@nospam.net wrote:
: >> >> >> In
<96c903fc-9181-4782-a256-6a80cc40e...@a17g2000prm.googlegroups.com>, on
: >> >> >> 11/18/2008
: >> >> >> at 01:32 PM, Daniel <sabot12...@hotmail.com> said:
: >>
: >> >> >> >On Nov 18, 1:29 pm, TruthTel...@nospam.net wrote:
: >> >> >> >> You people need to do some homework. The so-called $73 ph,
is not cash.
: >> >> >> >> it includes benefits and retirement costs.
: >> >> >> >Which is STILL too much money for an unskilled laborer that
does nothing
: >> >> >> >more than hold a tool.
: >>
: >> >> >> Do your homework. Its not unskilled labor anymore.
: >>
: >> >> >Your job consists of holding a tool that does all the work for
you.
: >> >> >That by itself is the definition of unskilled. If you don't
like it,
: >> >> >tough.
: >>
: >> >> While I agree with you with regards to pay for work done I don't
agree
: >> >> with your premise -- by your premise a military pilot flying a
25
: >> >> million dollar aircraft is unskilled labor since all he does is
sit in
: >> >> the cockpit and pull levers and push buttons.
: >> >Except that pilot has a 4 year college education, and at least a
year of
: >> >flight school to learn to fly said aircraft, and does it for far
less
: >> >than the toothess goober that holds the machine to tighten lug
nuts.
: >>
: >> First prove you know what you are talking about; e.g., show us that
the
: >> lug nut guy is getting the $103K!
:
:
: >Maybe you should pay some fucking attention to the thread you're
: >particiapting in.
:
: >http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122688631448632421.html
:
:
: You should learn to read goober. There is nothing -- zero -- in that
: story about $103K per year -- unskilled laborer causeing the problem .
: That is what the thread is about goober.

@ TruthTeller@nospam.net,

Before calling Daniel 'goober' did you read the original posters
(hpope@lycos.com) first posting in this thread?

In fact if you take the time and effort to actually read the very first
posting in this thread originally posted by hpope@lycos.com on Saturday,
November 15, 2008 5:51 PM you would in fact read quote - "One
blue-collar Delphi worker interviewed by the Detroit News makes $103,000
a year operating a forklift and fears the consequences if his pay is
drastically reduced" - unquote.

This thread also reveals that the total average hourly compensation for
a General Motors UAW employee is $73.26 an hour which is about $2,900 a
week or close to $150,000 a year.

Fred

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 9:45 pm
From: "Billzz"

"Fred Lorenzen" <fearless-freddie-SpaMeNot@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:vvqVk.388938$TT4.34528@attbi_s22...
>
> <TruthTeller@nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:PilVk.1804$4g5.101@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
> : In
> <72046dc7-e3c0-42f8-9c71-2016d2aa2700@l39g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, on
> : 11/20/2008
> : at 12:40 PM, Daniel <sabot120mm@hotmail.com> said:
> :
> :
> :
> : >On Nov 20, 12:05 pm, TruthTel...@nospam.net wrote:
> : >> In
> <19d19ad2-38a9-47d7-8e77-b11665ab2...@s20g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, on
> : >> 11/20/2008
> : >> at 08:57 AM, Daniel <sabot12...@hotmail.com> said:
> : >>
> : >>
> : >>
> : >>
> : >>
> : >> >On Nov 19, 9:34 pm, BE-VA <blackwater-evangal...@testland.net>
> wrote: >
> : >> >On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:23:55 -0800 (PST), Daniel
> : >>
> : >> >> <sabot12...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> : >> >> >On Nov 18, 5:22 pm, TruthTel...@nospam.net wrote:
> : >> >> >> In
> <96c903fc-9181-4782-a256-6a80cc40e...@a17g2000prm.googlegroups.com>, on
> : >> >> >> 11/18/2008
> : >> >> >> at 01:32 PM, Daniel <sabot12...@hotmail.com> said:
> : >>
> : >> >> >> >On Nov 18, 1:29 pm, TruthTel...@nospam.net wrote:
> : >> >> >> >> You people need to do some homework. The so-called $73 ph,
> is not cash.
> : >> >> >> >> it includes benefits and retirement costs.
> : >> >> >> >Which is STILL too much money for an unskilled laborer that
> does nothing
> : >> >> >> >more than hold a tool.
> : >>
> : >> >> >> Do your homework. Its not unskilled labor anymore.
> : >>
> : >> >> >Your job consists of holding a tool that does all the work for
> you.
> : >> >> >That by itself is the definition of unskilled. If you don't
> like it,
> : >> >> >tough.
> : >>
> : >> >> While I agree with you with regards to pay for work done I don't
> agree
> : >> >> with your premise -- by your premise a military pilot flying a
> 25
> : >> >> million dollar aircraft is unskilled labor since all he does is
> sit in
> : >> >> the cockpit and pull levers and push buttons.
> : >> >Except that pilot has a 4 year college education, and at least a
> year of
> : >> >flight school to learn to fly said aircraft, and does it for far
> less
> : >> >than the toothess goober that holds the machine to tighten lug
> nuts.
> : >>
> : >> First prove you know what you are talking about; e.g., show us that
> the
> : >> lug nut guy is getting the $103K!
> :
> :
> : >Maybe you should pay some fucking attention to the thread you're
> : >particiapting in.
> :
> : >http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122688631448632421.html
> :
> :
> : You should learn to read goober. There is nothing -- zero -- in that
> : story about $103K per year -- unskilled laborer causeing the problem .
> : That is what the thread is about goober.
>
> @ TruthTeller@nospam.net,
>
> Before calling Daniel 'goober' did you read the original posters
> (hpope@lycos.com) first posting in this thread?
>
> In fact if you take the time and effort to actually read the very first
> posting in this thread originally posted by hpope@lycos.com on Saturday,
> November 15, 2008 5:51 PM you would in fact read quote - "One
> blue-collar Delphi worker interviewed by the Detroit News makes $103,000
> a year operating a forklift and fears the consequences if his pay is
> drastically reduced" - unquote.
>
> This thread also reveals that the total average hourly compensation for
> a General Motors UAW employee is $73.26 an hour which is about $2,900 a
> week or close to $150,000 a year.
>
> Fred

You are talking to a person who is mentally impaired. He reads little,
researches nothing, cites nothing, yet insults everybody for some unknown
reason. If you respond then he will insult you, say something which has
nothing to do with the subject, then arbitrarily dismiss you as someone not
worth talking to. But if you respond then you will get the same thing over
and over again. I used to think that he was a Turing Test, but now I think
that he actually exists. If you respond to him, then he will go on forever.
Plonk file recommended.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Obama gets it! Oil is FINITE, regardless of current price.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/5b131e99a30a9010?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 8:13 pm
From: hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com

On Nov 20, 12:46 pm, Curly Surmudgeon <curlysurmudg...@live.com>
wrote:

Stop stalking me, stinkbug. And stop lying, too.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 10:32 pm
From: Curly Surmudgeon

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 20:13:28 -0800, hot-ham-and-cheese wrote:

>>>> I understand you for the most part. Had I been Squirrelly
>>>> Curmudgeon, your lie tally would be five, but I can't honestly
>>>> categorize your misguided opinions as lies.
>>
>> You can't "honestly" speak. Not for yourself, let alone others. Cease
>> misrepresenting the words of others and only lie for your self. We've
>> come to accept that you lie for yourself is your pattern, lying about
>> the words of others is unacceptable.
>>
>> Do not paraphrase others, misrepresent, modify, or misstate our words.
>> Lie only for yourself.
>
> Stop stalking me, stinkbug. And stop lying, too.

You're lying again, cockroach.

Stop it.

--
Regards, Curly
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== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 10:33 pm
From: Curly Surmudgeon

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 20:08:54 -0800, hot-ham-and-cheese wrote:

> On Nov 19, 2:03 pm, Michael Coburn <mik...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 03:42:13 -0800, hot-ham-and-cheese wrote:
>> > You mean when Bush said we were addicted to oil it meant nothing. When
>> > O'bama says we are addicted to oil it means something.
>>
>> I think you have busted the code here....
>>
>> The proclamation is essentially correct. When someone intelligent tells
>> you something it has a much larger influence then when a moron says it.
>
> Both stated the obvious, yet you waited for your media hero to come
> along and restate the obvious before you believed it.

You're lying again.

Stop it, cockroach.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 11:10 pm
From: Jeff

hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Nov 19, 2:03 pm, Michael Coburn <mik...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 03:42:13 -0800, hot-ham-and-cheese wrote:
>>> You mean when Bush said we were addicted to oil it meant nothing. When
>>> O'bama says we are addicted to oil it means something.
>> I think you have busted the code here....
>>
>> The proclamation is essentially correct. When someone intelligent tells
>> you something it has a much larger influence then when a moron says it.
>
> Both stated the obvious, yet you waited for your media hero to come
> along and restate the obvious before you believed it.

Oddly it took Bush until the 2006 State of the Union to mention it.
The same speech where it dawned on him that this was going to be a long
war. So, what tangible results do we have from his: Advanced Energy
Initiative? Not much that I can find. But that seems to be the normal
state of affairs for any Bush initiative. How's that trip to Mars coming
along?

>
> That puts you at a gross intellectual disadvantage.

You have a lot of opinions that you can't substantiate. These things
can happen listening to wingnut radio where they only give you the
synopsis of what to believe and never the background info to prove it.

Essentially we've had an entire presidency that never cared half as
much about policy as it did politics. W's first Treasury Secretary, Paul
O Neal, said that he kept waiting for the policy discussions that he'd
seen in previous administrations, and they never happened. The decisions
had already been made by the political wing.

Jeff

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Doorbell always uses electricity!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3198294a289e9e57?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 8:38 pm
From: The Daring Dufas

Jeff Wisnia wrote:
> The Daring Dufas wrote:
>> Bill wrote:
>>

>> I had a friend some years ago who ran the communications
>> division of the local power company. This was back when
>> they had HF radios for communications and the techs actually
>> had to know something about electronics. They would get
>> electronic interference complaints which were often traced
>> to doorbell transformers. It was a very common problem and
>> one that many people don't even think of today.
>>
>> TDD
>
>
> Sorry, but I have a hard time believing that.
>
> If it was "a very common problem", can you offer a cite proving that a
> 60 hz transformer and 10-50 feet of unshielded wire with 24 vac on it
> can cause interference at radio frequencies?
>
> Wouldn't you expect that if that story was true those big pole pig
> transformers and all that higher voltage wiring running on the poles on
> nearly every street would have caused the radios to melt? <G>
>
> Jeff
>

Do you know what voltage most (USA) doorbells operate on?

TDD

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 9:40 pm
From: "Leroy"

The Daring Dufas wrote:
> Jeff Wisnia wrote:
>> The Daring Dufas wrote:
>>> Bill wrote:
>>>
>
>>> I had a friend some years ago who ran the communications
>>> division of the local power company. This was back when
>>> they had HF radios for communications and the techs actually
>>> had to know something about electronics. They would get
>>> electronic interference complaints which were often traced
>>> to doorbell transformers. It was a very common problem and
>>> one that many people don't even think of today.
>>>
>>> TDD
>>
>>
>> Sorry, but I have a hard time believing that.
>>
>> If it was "a very common problem", can you offer a cite proving that a
>> 60 hz transformer and 10-50 feet of unshielded wire with 24 vac on it
>> can cause interference at radio frequencies?
>>
>> Wouldn't you expect that if that story was true those big pole pig
>> transformers and all that higher voltage wiring running on the poles on
>> nearly every street would have caused the radios to melt? <G>
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>
> Do you know what voltage most (USA) doorbells operate on?
>
> TDD

twenty volts or under, while thermostat transformers are typically
twenty four volts.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 11:14 pm
From: The Daring Dufas

Leroy wrote:
> The Daring Dufas wrote:
>> Jeff Wisnia wrote:
>>> The Daring Dufas wrote:
>>>> Bill wrote:
>>>>
>>
>>>> I had a friend some years ago who ran the communications
>>>> division of the local power company. This was back when
>>>> they had HF radios for communications and the techs actually
>>>> had to know something about electronics. They would get
>>>> electronic interference complaints which were often traced
>>>> to doorbell transformers. It was a very common problem and
>>>> one that many people don't even think of today.
>>>>
>>>> TDD
>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry, but I have a hard time believing that.
>>>
>>> If it was "a very common problem", can you offer a cite proving that a
>>> 60 hz transformer and 10-50 feet of unshielded wire with 24 vac on it
>>> can cause interference at radio frequencies?
>>>
>>> Wouldn't you expect that if that story was true those big pole pig
>>> transformers and all that higher voltage wiring running on the poles on
>>> nearly every street would have caused the radios to melt? <G>
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>
>> Do you know what voltage most (USA) doorbells operate on?
>>
>> TDD
>
> twenty volts or under, while thermostat transformers are typically
> twenty four volts.
>
I believe I asked Jeff. Do you know what your
name is?

TDD

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Thermostat Setting
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c56213882c5b7104?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 8:44 pm
From: "MarieD"

"Napoleon" <anarch@666yes.net> wrote in message
news:2d58i41djoa6ggfhf2gv156u9cifqgg9cf@4ax.com...
> An appropriate time of the year for this post.
>
> I keep my thermostat at 59 from 8am to 5pm and 9pm to 6am.
> From 6am to 8am and 5pm to 9pm the thermostat is kept at 64. Is this
> more frugal than keeping the thermostat set at 62 the entire day?
>
> Would it be more worthwhile to keep the thermostat set lower at night
> or would you use more gas just getting it up to 64 from say 56? I use
> natural gas to heat and I am in upstate NY.
>
> What are your thermostat settings, where do you live, what do you use
> to heat, and did you see a savings last year from lowering it at
> night?

I live in SC and I keep our thermostat at 69 in the winter, and about 74 in
the summer. It seems that the colder it is outside the colder it is in my
house, even if the thermostat says it's 73. Our heat is gas. And really I've
never tried to see if there was a difference in cost between lowering the
heat at night or leaving it. I'm fine with leaving it at one temp 24/7
(unless it's not cold enough outside, then I just turn it off.) We're having
a cold wave here right now so until today the heat hasn't been turned off
for the past few days. Also if it's sunny, the house is warmer.
We've only lived here a whole year. So I don't know how the cost will turn
out. During the summer, after the first couple of weeks of extreme heat, we
found that the air ducts were not connected to the vents properly and were
blowing cold air into the (badly insulated)attic. So after working on all
that, I assume our gas and summer electricity costs will be much lower this
next year!
Marie

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 9:12 pm
From: "Dave"

>
> I live in SC and I keep our thermostat at 69 in the winter, and about 74
> in the summer. It seems that the colder it is outside the colder it is in
> my house, even if the thermostat says it's 73.

That's because of really low humidity in the winter. You can get a
whole-house humidifier. (to install on your furnace, or you can get a
standalone unit pretty cheaply...but you have to keep refilling it) You
want the humidity level to be about 40% year-round. It's probably 20% right
now. Do you have a lot of static electricity? Nose-bleeds? Dry skin? Low
humidity symptoms. -Dave

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Freebies
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/0d3ae6f94f44e97d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 9:15 pm
From: "FreeStuffandSamples.com"

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Free shipping on coolest gift for Christmas
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/7dbc40a9322b1d43?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 9:16 pm
From: "FreeStuffandSamples.com"

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Chase credit cards HERE ALL
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a5ff5401af8d141c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 9:46 pm
From: BUSHRA

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: supply discount ugg boots, up to 70% off, fast delivery!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d25ff086843278d8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 11:35 pm
From: billy

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Frugal Living

Friday, November 21, 2008

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 15 new messages in 8 topics - digest

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