Frugal Living: misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 8 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: how to get your money back on any product that fails
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/cf36a607cf5a61cd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 17 2008 11:03 am
From: "Rod Speed"

john zeiss <bluestar@mail.invalid> wrote:
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:6nbqsgFkjvojU1@mid.individual.net...
>> Seerialmom <seerialmom@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> On Oct 28, 11:34 am, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I in fact got the use of a very decent Logitech keyboard and mouse
>>>> for 5 years for the cost of that money for that time just by
>>>> choosing a mouse that they didnt continue to produce, claiming
>>>> under warranty just before the warranty expired and since they
>>>> couldnt replace the mouse with another with the same button
>>>> collection etc, they had to give me a full refund of the original
>>>> purchase price instead. misterf...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>> How to get your money back on most any product that fails just
>>>>> after its flimsy, short-term, worthless warranty expires:
>>>>
>>>>> Good examples of junk products that fail in less than 180 days:
>>>>
>>>>> Belkin (cigarette lighter plug-in) cell phone chargers
>>>>
>>>>> SONY microcassette tape-recorders
>>>>
>>>>> any compact flourescent light bulb
>>>>
>>>>> digital cameras, electronics equipment, etc

> a couple of years ago a well placed japanese engineer in japan, told
> me that manufacturers in japan were studying how to get products to
> fail early, especially after the guarantee expires.

It isnt even possible.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 17 2008 11:07 am
From: "john zeiss"

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6odtgaF355hlU1@mid.individual.net...
> john zeiss <bluestar@mail.invalid> wrote:
>> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:6nbqsgFkjvojU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> Seerialmom <seerialmom@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> On Oct 28, 11:34 am, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I in fact got the use of a very decent Logitech keyboard and mouse
>>>>> for 5 years for the cost of that money for that time just by
>>>>> choosing a mouse that they didnt continue to produce, claiming
>>>>> under warranty just before the warranty expired and since they
>>>>> couldnt replace the mouse with another with the same button
>>>>> collection etc, they had to give me a full refund of the original
>>>>> purchase price instead. misterf...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>> How to get your money back on most any product that fails just
>>>>>> after its flimsy, short-term, worthless warranty expires:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Good examples of junk products that fail in less than 180 days:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Belkin (cigarette lighter plug-in) cell phone chargers
>>>>>
>>>>>> SONY microcassette tape-recorders
>>>>>
>>>>>> any compact flourescent light bulb
>>>>>
>>>>>> digital cameras, electronics equipment, etc
>
>> a couple of years ago a well placed japanese engineer in japan, told
>> me that manufacturers in japan were studying how to get products to
>> fail early, especially after the guarantee expires.
>
> It isnt even possible.

Really.........?

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 17 2008 12:58 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

john zeiss <bluestar@mail.invalid> wrote:
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:6odtgaF355hlU1@mid.individual.net...
>> john zeiss <bluestar@mail.invalid> wrote:
>>> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:6nbqsgFkjvojU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>> Seerialmom <seerialmom@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Oct 28, 11:34 am, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> I in fact got the use of a very decent Logitech keyboard and
>>>>>> mouse for 5 years for the cost of that money for that time just
>>>>>> by choosing a mouse that they didnt continue to produce, claiming
>>>>>> under warranty just before the warranty expired and since they
>>>>>> couldnt replace the mouse with another with the same button
>>>>>> collection etc, they had to give me a full refund of the original
>>>>>> purchase price instead. misterf...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>> How to get your money back on most any product that fails just
>>>>>>> after its flimsy, short-term, worthless warranty expires:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Good examples of junk products that fail in less than 180 days:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Belkin (cigarette lighter plug-in) cell phone chargers
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> SONY microcassette tape-recorders
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> any compact flourescent light bulb
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> digital cameras, electronics equipment, etc

>>> a couple of years ago a well placed japanese engineer in japan, told me that manufacturers in japan were studying
>>> how to get products to fail early, especially after the guarantee expires.

>> It isnt even possible.

> Really.........?

Yep, really.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: In my country, there's no such thing as food allergy
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/5f96e14d255f3533?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 17 2008 11:08 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Bob <ma@trix.net> wrote
> <ash12l@yahoo.com> wrote

>> I am surprised that so many people in U.S. has food allergy, ...

> Any food ingested is a foreign substance to the body, triggering immune response.

Wrong. We evolved to use it as food.

> In less hygienic countries, when parasites and such are eliminated, people start having allergic reactions to things
> which didn't bother them before.

Lie.

> Also.. germs are everywhere. Much of the common bacteria we live with, may fight off more virulent forms.
> Antibacterial soap kills all but a few which multiply, leading to superbugs immune to antibiotics. Hospitals are
> infamous breeding grounds for such.

Irrelevant to his stupid claim about food allergys.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 17 2008 7:19 pm
From: Seerialmom

On Nov 16, 3:10 pm, ash...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I am surprised that so many people in U.S. has food allergy, such as -
> can't eat mushroom? Can't eat seafood? And the like. In my country, I
> do not know any of person that has food allergy. I guess the people
> who can't eat properly on regular food just have their gene pool wiped
> out. In the end during the evolution, eventually everyone can eat
> virtually everything.
>
> Here in U.S., artificially maintained medical care support some
> seriously-defect people, and the genes were passed on to the next
> generations, such as food allergy, Down syndrome, Diabetes, pollen
> allergy, and many many more. Only oddly happening here.
>
> In addition to the financial credit bubbles, there're many other
> bubbles going on in U.S. that most people are not aware of. One of
> them is high cost maintained "Longevity" bubble, the lifestyle not
> supported by evolution. The artificially supported bad gene pool. It
> will end.
>
> Nothing against my U.S. friends. Just a comment above.

Since you didn't say "where" your country is I'll presume it's not in
North America. Did you ever consider that perhaps you never "saw"
someone with a food allergy because they died from the allergy early
in life? :) Just a thought.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: vaseline to stop leaks
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/eda477b9eaf457a0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 17 2008 11:10 am
From: "GB"

Al Bundy wrote:

> Be
> gentile at first and don't burn the rubber.

Damn BNP seems to get in everywhere!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Do you want your tax money to pay a forklift operator $103,000.00 a
year
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/ddfc45ecb2d7616d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 17 2008 11:16 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Werner <whetzner@mac.com> wrote:
> On Nov 16, 9:29 pm, Wilma6...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Nov 16, 11:17 am, George Grapman <sfgeo...@paccbell.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Interesting that the poster made no mention of executives with seven
>>> figure salaries who made bad decisions.
>>
>> Those executives who make millions don't spend their money either.
>> They stack it up real high and dive off into a pool of money and swim
>> in it, afterwards light cigars with $100 bills before jetting of to
>> Aruba or the Caymans to hide their money from the tax man. When they
>> die the money goes tooffspring who never have to contribute to
>> society.
>>
>> On the other hand, the union workers pay mortgages and send their
>> kids to college. They pay taxes, eat in restaurants and have their
>> haircut at the local barber. When they die they leave a little for
>> family.
>>
>> Why do we attack each other and say nothing as the rich continue to
>> get richer?
>
>
> Non-union workers pay mortgages also. Besides, when the Fed floods
> banks with money to lend workers get jobs and are happy with the money
> just like the rich.

> Besides, when the Fed floods the banks with money it also
> causes inflation. This is why interest rates were set higher

Nope, the interest rates went higher because the economy was doing well.

> and the happy workers could no longer afford their mortgages.

Only a fool borrows so much at variable interest rates that they cant afford
the payments when the interest rates inevitably return to normal levels.

> And when you have inflation cash becomes worth less while assets
> hold real value. The rich have more assets. So the Fed, a creation
> of Congress, contributes to the widening wealth and income gap.

No it doesnt. And with sub prime loans even the nothing like rich can own real estate assets.

> So remember your benevolent government for another unintended consequence mess.

It wasnt even an unintended effect, let alone a mess.

== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 17 2008 1:12 pm
From: Daniel

On Nov 17, 1:47 pm, "Fred Lorenzen" <fearless-freddie-
SpaMe...@mchsi.com> wrote:
> <hp...@lycos.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1d1f2d3f-4963-44bb-b224-21ddf8e5c40e@a29g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
> :http://malaysia.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070924073107AA...
> :
> : The write your folks in Congress and oppose the "bailout" of
> : terminally-ill General Motors. The correct path is for GM to file for
> : protectiong under Chapter 11 and hopefully reorganize. Contact via
> : site listed below:
> :
> :http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/
> :
> : Mitch
>
> A General Motors UAW employee average pay including base pay,
> cost-of-living adjustments, night-shift premiums, overtime, holiday and
> vacation pay is 39.68 an hour. Add health-care, pension, and other
> benefits average another $33.58 an hour. That brings the total average
> hourly compensation for a General Motors UAW employee to $73.26 an hour.
>
> Perhaps Mr. Michael E. Levine's Wall Street Journal recent article will
> shed some light on General Motor's current financial problems ->
>
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122688631448632421.html
>
> Regards,
> Fred

$73 an hour to hold a tool?? And the automakers want MY tax dollars?
You UAW members can go fuck yourselves.

== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 17 2008 2:09 pm
From: Werner

On Nov 17, 2:16 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Werner <whetz...@mac.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 16, 9:29 pm, Wilma6...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Nov 16, 11:17 am, George Grapman <sfgeo...@paccbell.net> wrote:
>
> >>> Interesting that the poster made no mention of executives with seven
> >>> figure salaries who made bad decisions.
>
> >> Those executives who make millions don't spend their money either.
> >> They stack it up real high and dive off into a pool of money and swim
> >> in it, afterwards light cigars with $100 bills before jetting of to
> >> Aruba or the Caymans to hide their money from the tax man. When they
> >> die the money goes tooffspring who never have to contribute to
> >> society.
>
> >> On the other hand, the union workers pay mortgages and send their
> >> kids to college. They pay taxes, eat in restaurants and have their
> >> haircut at the local barber. When they die they leave a little for
> >> family.
>
> >> Why do we attack each other and say nothing as the rich continue to
> >> get richer?
>
> > Non-union workers pay mortgages also. Besides, when the Fed floods
> > banks with money to lend workers get jobs and are happy with the money
> > just like the rich.
> > Besides, when the Fed floods the banks with money it also
> > causes inflation. This is why interest rates were set higher
>
> Nope, the interest rates went higher because the economy was doing well.
>

Exactly. It heated up the economy and created an inflation bubble. So
the Fed regulated the interest rate up.

> > and the happy workers could no longer afford their mortgages.
>
> Only a fool borrows so much at variable interest rates that they cant afford
> the payments when the interest rates inevitably return to normal levels.
>
> > And when you have inflation cash becomes worth less while assets
> > hold real value. The rich have more assets. So the Fed, a creation
> > of Congress, contributes to the widening wealth and income gap.
>
> No it doesnt. And with sub prime loans even the nothing like rich can own real estate assets.
>

Normally, assets hold value when cash does not. One reason people buy
property is as a hedge against inflation. Rich people have more
property.

> > So remember your benevolent government for another unintended consequence mess.
>
> It wasnt even an unintended effect, let alone a mess.

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 17 2008 2:23 pm
From: "zzbunker@netscape.net"

On Nov 16, 9:14 pm, The Real Bev <bashley101+use...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Kitty wrote:
> > "Jeffrey Laventure" <thinh...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> >> Nor sports. music and movie stars who are make an an obscene paycheck for
> >> providing little value to society.
>
> > Yep and its funny how that phenomenon works too, they suddenly KNOW they are
> > the expert on everything. Because we pay them enormous amounts of money to
> > amuse us , {think court jester here}they are the smartest creatures on earth
> > and tell us so anytime we "forget".
>
> Fortunately a number of them left the country because Bush was elected,
> just as they'd promised to do. Oh, wait...

Since half of them left the known universe entirely about 50 years,
the only people really waiting for them to return is Oprah and
Rupert Murdoch though.
Since the rest of us are still banking on Post GM Robotics, rather
than
wanks from the Wal-Mart Awards.

>
> --
> Cheers,
> Bev
> ----------------------------------------------
> "Tough? We drink our urine and eat our dead!"
> -- N. Heilweil

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 17 2008 3:05 pm
From: Wilma6116@gmail.com

On Nov 17, 1:12 pm, Daniel <sabot12...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 17, 1:47 pm, "Fred Lorenzen" <fearless-freddie-
>
>
>
>
>
> SpaMe...@mchsi.com> wrote:
> > <hp...@lycos.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:1d1f2d3f-4963-44bb-b224-21ddf8e5c40e@a29g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
> > :http://malaysia.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070924073107AA...
> > :
> > : The write your folks in Congress and oppose the "bailout" of
> > : terminally-ill General Motors. The correct path is for GM to file for
> > : protectiong under Chapter 11 and hopefully reorganize. Contact via
> > : site listed below:
> > :
> > :http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/
> > :
> > : Mitch
>
> > A General Motors UAW employee average pay including base pay,
> > cost-of-living adjustments, night-shift premiums, overtime, holiday and
> > vacation pay is 39.68 an hour. Add health-care, pension, and other
> > benefits average another $33.58 an hour. That brings the total average
> > hourly compensation for a General Motors UAW employee to $73.26 an hour.
>
> > Perhaps Mr. Michael E. Levine's Wall Street Journal recent article will
> > shed some light on General Motor's current financial problems ->
>
> >http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122688631448632421.html
>
> > Regards,
> > Fred
>
> $73 an hour to hold a tool?? And the automakers want MY tax dollars?
> You UAW members can go fuck yourselves.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

$73 an hour is about 2,900 a week, or cloose to $150,000 a year. Good
money but not obsene. Sports figures make more in one year than the GM
worker will make in a lifetime, for playing a game for part of a year.
Executives make millions a year if not millions a month. even if they
run the company into the ground, and when they are fired they are
giving a severence package that is more than the GM worker will make
and his childrens' children in their lifetimes.

GM workers spend their money locally. Henry Ford was the first of the
automakers to pay his workers a good wage, his reasoning was that if
you pay the workers well they will buy the things that are
manufactured. Make the GM worker unemployed and there are hundreds of
small buisness that will suffer.

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 17 2008 3:23 pm
From: "zzbunker@netscape.net"

On Nov 17, 6:05 pm, Wilma6...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Nov 17, 1:12 pm, Daniel <sabot12...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 17, 1:47 pm, "Fred Lorenzen" <fearless-freddie-
>
> > SpaMe...@mchsi.com> wrote:
> > > <hp...@lycos.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:1d1f2d3f-4963-44bb-b224-21ddf8e5c40e@a29g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
> > > :http://malaysia.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070924073107AA...
> > > :
> > > : The write your folks in Congress and oppose the "bailout" of
> > > : terminally-ill General Motors. The correct path is for GM to file for
> > > : protectiong under Chapter 11 and hopefully reorganize. Contact via
> > > : site listed below:
> > > :
> > > :http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/
> > > :
> > > : Mitch
>
> > > A General Motors UAW employee average pay including base pay,
> > > cost-of-living adjustments, night-shift premiums, overtime, holiday and
> > > vacation pay is 39.68 an hour. Add health-care, pension, and other
> > > benefits average another $33.58 an hour. That brings the total average
> > > hourly compensation for a General Motors UAW employee to $73.26 an hour.
>
> > > Perhaps Mr. Michael E. Levine's Wall Street Journal recent article will
> > > shed some light on General Motor's current financial problems ->
>
> > >http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122688631448632421.html
>
> > > Regards,
> > > Fred
>
> > $73 an hour to hold a tool?? And the automakers want MY tax dollars?
> > You UAW members can go fuck yourselves.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> $73 an hour is about 2,900 a week, or cloose to $150,000 a year. Good
> money but not obsene. Sports figures make more in one year than the GM
> worker will make in a lifetime, for playing a game for part of a year.
> Executives make millions a year if not millions a month. even if they
> run the company into the ground, and when they are fired they are
> giving a severence package that is more than the GM worker will make
> and his childrens' children in their lifetimes.
>
> GM workers spend their money locally. Henry Ford was the first of the
> automakers to pay his workers a good wage, his reasoning was that if
> you pay the workers well they will buy the things that are
> manufactured. Make the GM worker unemployed and there are hundreds of
> small buisness that will suffer.- Hide quoted text -

That's seemed to be because Ford knew how car manufacturing
worked,
And the only thing the GM Bozos ever seemd to even half
understood
about cars, A.I. computers, gasoline, oil, science, engineering,
medicine, or
economics entirely is how Howard Hughes works.

> - Show quoted text -

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 17 2008 3:34 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Werner <whetzner@mac.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>> Werner <whetz...@mac.com> wrote
>>> Wilma6...@gmail.com wrote
>>>> George Grapman <sfgeo...@paccbell.net> wrote

>>>>> Interesting that the poster made no mention of executives
>>>>> with seven figure salaries who made bad decisions.

>>>> Those executives who make millions don't spend their money either.
>>>> They stack it up real high and dive off into a pool of money and
>>>> swim in it, afterwards light cigars with $100 bills before jetting
>>>> of to Aruba or the Caymans to hide their money from the tax man.
>>>> When they die the money goes tooffspring who never have to
>>>> contribute to society.

>>>> On the other hand, the union workers pay mortgages and send their
>>>> kids to college. They pay taxes, eat in restaurants and have their
>>>> haircut at the local barber. When they die they leave a little for family.

>>>> Why do we attack each other and say nothing as the rich continue to get richer?

>>> Non-union workers pay mortgages also. Besides, when the Fed floods
>>> banks with money to lend workers get jobs and are happy with the
>>> money just like the rich.

>>> Besides, when the Fed floods the banks with money it also
>>> causes inflation. This is why interest rates were set higher

>> Nope, the interest rates went higher because the economy was doing well.

> Exactly.

Nope.

> It heated up the economy and created an inflation bubble.

Nope.

> So the Fed regulated the interest rate up.

Nope. It had previously dropped them because the economy wasnt doing as well.

And then returned to normal when the economy was doing normally.

The Jap interest rates stayed at a low level because their economy never did pick up.

>>> and the happy workers could no longer afford their mortgages.

>> Only a fool borrows so much at variable interest rates that they cant afford
>> the payments when the interest rates inevitably return to normal levels.

>>> And when you have inflation cash becomes worth less while assets
>>> hold real value. The rich have more assets. So the Fed, a creation
>>> of Congress, contributes to the widening wealth and income gap.

>> No it doesnt. And with sub prime loans even the nothing like rich can own real estate assets.

> Normally, assets hold value when cash does not.

Thats wrong when the inflation rate is low.

> One reason people buy property is as a hedge against inflation.

The main reason most buy property is to have somewhere to live and avoid pouring the rent down a rat hole.

> Rich people have more property.

Rich people have more of everything except children.

>>> So remember your benevolent government for another unintended consequence mess.

>> It wasnt even an unintended effect, let alone a mess.

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 17 2008 3:36 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Wilma6116@gmail.com wrote:
> On Nov 17, 1:12 pm, Daniel <sabot12...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Nov 17, 1:47 pm, "Fred Lorenzen" <fearless-freddie-
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> SpaMe...@mchsi.com> wrote:
>>> <hp...@lycos.com> wrote in message
>>
>>> news:1d1f2d3f-4963-44bb-b224-21ddf8e5c40e@a29g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>>>> http://malaysia.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070924073107AA...
>>>>
>>>> The write your folks in Congress and oppose the "bailout" of
>>>> terminally-ill General Motors. The correct path is for GM to file
>>>> for protectiong under Chapter 11 and hopefully reorganize. Contact
>>>> via site listed below:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/
>>>>
>>>> Mitch
>>
>>> A General Motors UAW employee average pay including base pay,
>>> cost-of-living adjustments, night-shift premiums, overtime, holiday
>>> and vacation pay is 39.68 an hour. Add health-care, pension, and
>>> other benefits average another $33.58 an hour. That brings the
>>> total average hourly compensation for a General Motors UAW employee
>>> to $73.26 an hour.
>>
>>> Perhaps Mr. Michael E. Levine's Wall Street Journal recent article
>>> will shed some light on General Motor's current financial problems
>>> ->
>>
>>> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122688631448632421.html
>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Fred
>>
>> $73 an hour to hold a tool?? And the automakers want MY tax dollars?
>> You UAW members can go fuck yourselves.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> $73 an hour is about 2,900 a week, or cloose to $150,000 a year. Good
> money but not obsene. Sports figures make more in one year than the GM
> worker will make in a lifetime, for playing a game for part of a year.
> Executives make millions a year if not millions a month. even if they
> run the company into the ground, and when they are fired they are
> giving a severence package that is more than the GM worker will make
> and his childrens' children in their lifetimes.
>
> GM workers spend their money locally. Henry Ford was the first of the
> automakers to pay his workers a good wage, his reasoning was that if
> you pay the workers well they will buy the things that are
> manufactured. Make the GM worker unemployed and there are hundreds of
> small buisness that will suffer.

No reason why taxpayers who are paid a hell of a lot less than that should be slugged
to hand that money to GM to pay them so much more than most of the taxpayers.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Obama gets it! Oil is FINITE, regardless of current price.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/5b131e99a30a9010?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 17 2008 12:03 pm
From: "None4You"

<zzbunker@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:ed50a8e7-d3e9-4047-9b43-9505d96914b0@s9g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 17, 11:40 am, Enough Already <enough_alre...@lycos.com> wrote:
> It was inspiring to hear President-elect Obama say this during a 60
> Minutes interview:

Well, many of us knew. that long ago.
But it was still us that desgned and built Electronic Fuel
Injection, Disk Brakes,
Fiber optics, Cyber Space, Post AT&T Optics, Post Ford Batteries,
Post GM Robotics,
C++, Holograms, lasers, masers, Optical Computers, RISC Computers,
Elibraries,
On-Line-Banking, All-In-One Printers, On-Line-Publishing, Adpative
Pv Cells, Thermocouples,
and Piezo, HDTV, CD, DVD, HTML, USB, GPS, Cell Phones, Cruise
Missiles, laser-guided bombs,
AEGIS, Phalanx, Drones, AAVs, AUVs, Neo Solar Energy, Neo Wind
Energy,
and Biodiesel rather than wanks llike Obama,

>
> [quote]
>
> (CBS) Kroft: When the price of oil was at $147 a barrel, there were a
> lot of spirited and profitable discussions that were held on energy
> independence. Now you've got the price of oil under $60.
>
> Mr. Obama: Right.
>
> Kroft: Does doing something about energy is it less important now
> than…
>
> Mr. Obama: It's more important. It may be a little harder politically,
> but it's more important.
>
> Kroft: Why?
>
> Mr. Obama: Well, because this has been our pattern. We go from shock
> to trance. You know, oil prices go up, gas prices at the pump go up,
> everybody goes into a flurry of activity. And then the prices go back
> down and suddenly we act like it's not important, and we start, you
> know filling up our SUVs again.
>
> And, as a consequence, we never make any progress. It's part of the
> addiction, all right. That has to be broken. Now is the time to break
> it.
>
> [end quote]
>
> Most Republicans in recent memory would use this TEMPORARY recession-
> based oil price drop to claim there's "plenty of oil" and vindicate
> gratuitous V-8 engines in ego trucks. Our remaining oil (which will
> rise in price sooner or later, since it's finite), should be saved for
> workers who truly need big horsepower & torque. There will come a day
> when "I need 300HP to tow my ego-boat" or cart around 5 fat kids won't
> be a valid excuse. Living too large is the problem in the first place.
> Restraint and frugality must replace mindless gluttony.
>
> Hopefully, Obama will keep reminding the average greediot about the
> inherent scarcity of a resource we've been consuming at the rate of
> 7.6 billion barrels a year. Coastal drilling and ANWR combined might
> yield 30 billion barrels in best-case scenarios, which is about 4
> years worth for the U.S. After that, the extremely costly, land-
> wrecking spectre of shale is America's biggest cache. Canadian tar
> sands will never fill enough of the void, and that process is already
> ruining large swaths of their wilderness.
>
> A temporary slowing of consumption doesn't render Peak Oil null, but
> many people are dumb enough to believe that. Oil from all sources is
> FINITE and we need a President who'll stay on that point instead of
> letting the ignorant follow price whims. Nobody was born with the
> right to waste energy just because they can "afford the gas" this
> week. It gets physically scarcer each second no matter what price is
> decided on.
>
> E.A.
>
> http://enough_already.tripod.com/
>
> Government efficiency, or lack thereof, mirrors the habits of the
> citizenry.

I don't see any Americans wasting energy . I see a lot of business and the
government wasting oil. And you confuse necessary with ego boosting. You
cant tow a boat with a car of any kind. You cant catch fish without the
boat. And cant haul a wife and 5 kids around on a Vespa.
Oh wait, Yes you can . Here's how it works.
http://www.clevelandscooters.com/index.html Scroll to the bottom.

That how you want to live . Send us back to the caveman era.

You cant do construction in a Ford Focus.

If you use less oil doing nothing. With no family and no fat kids. Or wife.
Great. Good for you. Kinda makes you a loser though.

The world doesn't decide what we need . Verses what we want. We buy things
to feed our ego to justify working for a living. The government created
this mess and decided we should buy everything from overseas and support the
world. The US is a more efficient user of oil then China or India. We are
5% of the population using 25% of the world oil . Producing 26% of the
worlds needs. It has nothing to do with pickup trucks with V8s. Or how much
the whole country uses.
How about building some factories here and stop using all the oil to ship
rubber dog shit from China . How about shipping our food down the road to
the stores . Within a few hundred miles or less. Instead of shipping it from
China in gas hog cargo ships. Then driving it half way across the country
anyways. How about the US balance the budget , and quit devaluing the
dollar. And supporting the world. Before we end up eating grass.

Rule one of the country . Spend more at home building factories. Instead of
abroad, buying rubber dog shit. Or you go bankrupt . And eat grass. Worry
about oil later. There will be plenty when we cant buy any.

Better yet mind your own business. Get in your piece of crap hybrid and go
spend 5 bucks on a Starbucks coffee. Why I do some real work and make a big
fat roll with my big fat V8 truck. Then feed my ego doing your wife in your
bed.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 17 2008 1:04 pm
From: mustangsally

in <c0f4cb45-bea7-42bb-8eb3-aca46d76e5e0@d10g2000pra.googlegroups.com> (Mon, 17 Nov 2008 08:40:05 -0800 (PST)), Enough Already wrote:
| It was inspiring to hear President-elect Obama say this during a 60
| Minutes interview:

feh.

we have known about peak oil since the 1970s, and our government basically
ignored it and decided to pass the buck forward for future generations to
deal with.

We The People are to blame because we took our eye off the ball and have
failed to keep our government in check.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 17 2008 2:55 pm
From: Tony

You can tell by the *green* stocks that Obama says he's going to throw all
the money at that if you're holding any of them the only thing to change
color will be the back of your underwear as most have dropped over 50
percent since that wanker windup won the presidency. The only thing green
will be the hork from the back of my throat as i spit on anyone who gives
me that line of shit about green.

Enough Already wrote:

> It was inspiring to hear President-elect Obama say this during a 60
> Minutes interview:
>
> [quote]
>
> (CBS) Kroft: When the price of oil was at $147 a barrel, there were a
> lot of spirited and profitable discussions that were held on energy
> independence. Now you've got the price of oil under $60.
>
> Mr. Obama: Right.
>
> Kroft: Does doing something about energy is it less important now
> than…
>
> Mr. Obama: It's more important. It may be a little harder politically,
> but it's more important.
>
> Kroft: Why?
>
> Mr. Obama: Well, because this has been our pattern. We go from shock
> to trance. You know, oil prices go up, gas prices at the pump go up,
> everybody goes into a flurry of activity. And then the prices go back
> down and suddenly we act like it's not important, and we start, you
> know filling up our SUVs again.
>
> And, as a consequence, we never make any progress. It's part of the
> addiction, all right. That has to be broken. Now is the time to break
> it.
>
> [end quote]
>
> Most Republicans in recent memory would use this TEMPORARY recession-
> based oil price drop to claim there's "plenty of oil" and vindicate
> gratuitous V-8 engines in ego trucks. Our remaining oil (which will
> rise in price sooner or later, since it's finite), should be saved for
> workers who truly need big horsepower & torque. There will come a day
> when "I need 300HP to tow my ego-boat" or cart around 5 fat kids won't
> be a valid excuse. Living too large is the problem in the first place.
> Restraint and frugality must replace mindless gluttony.
>
> Hopefully, Obama will keep reminding the average greediot about the
> inherent scarcity of a resource we've been consuming at the rate of
> 7.6 billion barrels a year. Coastal drilling and ANWR combined might
> yield 30 billion barrels in best-case scenarios, which is about 4
> years worth for the U.S. After that, the extremely costly, land-
> wrecking spectre of shale is America's biggest cache. Canadian tar
> sands will never fill enough of the void, and that process is already
> ruining large swaths of their wilderness.
>
> A temporary slowing of consumption doesn't render Peak Oil null, but
> many people are dumb enough to believe that. Oil from all sources is
> FINITE and we need a President who'll stay on that point instead of
> letting the ignorant follow price whims. Nobody was born with the
> right to waste energy just because they can "afford the gas" this
> week. It gets physically scarcer each second no matter what price is
> decided on.
>
> E.A.
>
> http://enough_already.tripod.com/
>
> Government efficiency, or lack thereof, mirrors the habits of the
> citizenry.

--
The Grandmaster of the CyberFROG

Come get your ticket to CyberFROG city

Nay, Art thou decideth playeth ye simpleton games. *Some* of us know
proper manners

Very few. I used to take calls from *rank* noobs,

Hamster isn't a newsreader it's a mistake!

El-Gonzo Jackson FROGS both me and Chuckcar

Using my technical prowess and computer abilities to answer questions
beyond the realm of understandability

Regards Tony... Making usenet better for everyone everyday

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 17 2008 4:32 pm
From: tin cup

Enough Already wrote:
> It was inspiring to hear President-elect Obama say this during a 60
> Minutes interview:
>
> [quote]
>
> (CBS) Kroft: When the price of oil was at $147 a barrel, there were a
> lot of spirited and profitable discussions that were held on energy
> independence. Now you've got the price of oil under $60.
>
> Mr. Obama: Right.
>
snipped in a fit of rage

Total manipulation by the Oil Swindlers.
Tank our economy with higher taxes and or price of fuel, so the meddlers
can try to get their mass transport for people living 50 miles from work
etc.
A reliable and economical fuel supply was one of the key ingredients of
our national wealth.
Now that that has been exported by the globalist creeps I guess it don't
matter if we spend half our income to get to work.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 17 2008 4:41 pm
From: "Lou"

"Enough Already" <enough_already@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:c0f4cb45-bea7-42bb-8eb3-aca46d76e5e0@d10g2000pra.googlegroups.com...

> Most Republicans in recent memory would use this TEMPORARY recession-
> based oil price drop to claim there's "plenty of oil" and vindicate
> gratuitous V-8 engines in ego trucks.

You seem to be under the impression that only Republicans drive large
vehicles. You're wrong.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 17 2008 5:10 pm
From: "Bay Area Holdout"

>>Most Republicans in recent memory would use this TEMPORARY recession-
based oil price drop to claim there's "plenty of oil" and vindicate
gratuitous V-8 engines in ego trucks.

Why is it Republicans equal big SUV's??
Here in Liberal Land (aka S.F Bay Area) as I drive around in my
"conservative" 4 cyl Toyota Truck with cruise control set to 65 mph, I am
passed by endless SUV's, Mercedes, Range Rovers, etc going 10mph or more
over the limit(and wasting even more fuel) and usually with one passenger
and many of these have their Obama 08 stickers, like they haven't figured
out the election is over yet!

So contrary to your opinion, political party doesn't equal fuel wasters,
it's more of a mindset.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Microsoft Owes Vista Owners a Free Replacement that Works - Petition to
Microsoft
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/39cd08f7148038d7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 17 2008 4:54 pm
From: mattstrive

http://www.petitiononline.com/VistaNG/petition.html

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 17 2008 8:35 pm
From: Shawn Hirn

In article
<bfeaf1eb-9831-4194-96d9-676d4dfdaab2@q26g2000prq.googlegroups.com>,
mattstrive <MattStrive@gmail.com> wrote:

> http://www.petitiononline.com/VistaNG/petition.html

No need. Just don't buy Vista. Linux and Mac OS X are great alternatives
to Windows Vista.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Can I drop AT&T Long Distance, Keep Local?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f4018914d4032866?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 17 2008 7:13 pm
From: Dan Birchall

rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com (Rod Speed) wrote:
> Dan Birchall <nobody@imaginary-host.danbirchall.com> wrote
> > Out of curiosity... I don't see anyone disputing that they like
> > to charge for touch-tone service.
>
> Didnt dispute that they do.

Ok.

> > And even if it doesn't _save_ them anything, it certainly doesn't
> > appear to _cost_ them anything?
>
> Irrelevant to what I disputed.

Sorry for not being clear, I meant to be asking a different question
than that which was disputed.

> And some dont charge extra for touch tone dialing anyway.

Huh, that's interesting. Examples? Most of us deal with fairly
small numbers of telcos.

--
Oh, wicked, bad, naughty, _evil_ Dan! He is a _naughty_ person...

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 17 2008 7:20 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Dan Birchall <nobody@imaginary-host.danbirchall.com> wrote
> rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com (Rod Speed) wrote
>> Dan Birchall <nobody@imaginary-host.danbirchall.com> wrote

>>> Out of curiosity... I don't see anyone disputing that they like to charge for touch-tone service.

>> Didnt dispute that they do.

> Ok.

>>> And even if it doesn't _save_ them anything, it certainly doesn't appear to _cost_ them anything?

>> Irrelevant to what I disputed.

> Sorry for not being clear, I meant to be asking a different question than that which was disputed.

OK.

>> And some dont charge extra for touch tone dialing anyway.

> Huh, that's interesting. Examples?

George says Verizon.

> Most of us deal with fairly small numbers of telcos.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Wholesale NFL Jerseys Mlb jerseys Nhl hockey jerseys www.cicigogo.cn
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/60697cfab3f77c31?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 17 2008 8:23 pm
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Monday, November 17, 2008

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 8 topics - digest

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