Frugal Living: misc.consumers.frugal-living - 18 new messages in 10 topics

Friday, December 19, 2008

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 18 new messages in 10 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Madoff ain't the only Ponzi in town . . .
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9ae62a800128c9cb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 18 2008 4:09 pm
From: hpope@lycos.com

On Dec 18, 6:52 am, Doobie Keebler <kooper...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Who will be the next to fail?
> When will the hedgehogs all succumb to the pressure to go massive
> short on equities?
>
> .-=d00b
> .
>
> Madoff Exposes Double Standard for Ponzi Schemes: Jonathan Weil
>
> Dec. 18 (Bloomberg) -- Bernard Madoff's amazing Ponzi scheme has put
> him in a league of his own, for now. He shouldn't be alone for long.
>
> In the end, as with all the great frauds, Madoff's undoing was that he
> ran out of cash. For years, he paid returns to early investors with
> money he raised from new investors, which is the hallmark of every
> Ponzi scheme.
>
> When the economy got tough, and his customers sought about $7 billion
> in redemptions, Madoff didn't have the funds. It was around this time
> that he confessed to running a giant scam, the authorities say. The
> losses, by Madoff's estimate, might be $50 billion. Heaven knows how
> many clients of other money managers could meet the same fate as
> redemption orders pour in.
>
> It's no great feat to arrest a man who tells a federal agent "there is
> no innocent explanation" for his actions and that he expects to go to
> jail. The Securities and Exchange Commission blew many chances over
> the past decade to uncover his ruse, even after receiving detailed
> tips.
>
> It's unclear why the SEC failed to stop Madoff, whether because of
> corruption, a lack of smarts, a dearth of interest, or some
> combination. We can say with confidence, though, that many other huge
> frauds are still operating freely today -- and that the government
> might not be inclined to intervene, even when it knows all about them.
>
> Business Models
>
> After all, Madoff's scheme -- at least in spirit, if not in its
> nefarious intent -- wasn't much different than the business models at
> some of the nation's largest failed financial institutions.
>
> Back in May, four months before it collapsed, American International
> Group Inc. increased its dividend at the same time it unveiled plans
> to raise $12.5 billion in capital. Later, when its cash ran out, AIG
> got a government bailout, the size of which has expanded to about $150
> billion.
>
> Whether you call that a Ponzi scheme or something less sinister, AIG
> was paying old investors with money raised from new investors. The
> same could be said of many banks that blew through billions of dollars
> in freshly raised capital the past couple of years, continuing to pay
> large dividends even as their balance sheets quietly imploded.
>
> So why have other Ponzi-esque operators emerged scot-free (so far)
> with taxpayer bailouts, while Madoff gets pinched?
>
> The Cox Theory
>
> Sure, there is Madoff's own confession, plus the sheer brazenness of
> his conduct. And Madoff's collapse doesn't threaten to bring down the
> global financial system, as far as we know. Yet perhaps the best
> explanation can be found in a Dec. 4 speech by SEC Chairman
> Christopher Cox on why the government needs an exit strategy to unwind
> its myriad bailout commitments.
>
> "From the standpoint of the SEC, the most obvious problem with
> breaking down the arm's-length relationship between government, as the
> regulator, and business, as the regulated, is that it threatens to
> undermine our enforcement and regulatory regime," Cox said.
>
> "When the government becomes both referee and player, the game changes
> rather dramatically for every other participant. Rules that might be
> rigorously applied to private-sector competitors will not necessarily
> be applied in the same way to the sovereign who makes the rules."
>
> Cox failed to mention that the SEC already was a toothless tiger under
> his watch, long before this year's bailouts took root. Give him credit
> for candor, though. The chairman of the SEC is now on record saying
> the government can't be expected to enforce the nation's securities
> laws even-handedly at companies where its own financial interests are
> at stake.
>
> Fair Game
>
> He's right. The government can't live up to the task, even if it
> wanted to.
>
> Madoff probably wasn't the biggest Ponzi-scheme artist out there. He's
> just the first of his size to get nailed during the current bear
> market.
>
> He also knew he was fair game for the government. The people running
> companies with taxpayer bailout money know there's an excellent chance
> they won't be. As long as that remains true, this crisis of confidence
> isn't over by a long shot.

Get out of this stock market. Anticipate it going lower in Jan. 2009.
You can
always get back in if, and that's a big "if', it shows stability. Cash
is KING!

mitch

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 18 2008 4:46 pm
From: nada <@wild.il>

hpope@lycos.com wrote:
> On Dec 18, 6:52 am, Doobie Keebler <kooper...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Who will be the next to fail?
>> When will the hedgehogs all succumb to the pressure to go massive
>> short on equities?
>>
>> .-=d00b
>> .
>>
>> Madoff Exposes Double Standard for Ponzi Schemes: Jonathan Weil
>>
>> Dec. 18 (Bloomberg) -- Bernard Madoff's amazing Ponzi scheme has put
>> him in a league of his own, for now. He shouldn't be alone for long.
>>
>> In the end, as with all the great frauds, Madoff's undoing was that he
>> ran out of cash. For years, he paid returns to early investors with
>> money he raised from new investors, which is the hallmark of every
>> Ponzi scheme.
>>
>> When the economy got tough, and his customers sought about $7 billion
>> in redemptions, Madoff didn't have the funds. It was around this time
>> that he confessed to running a giant scam, the authorities say. The
>> losses, by Madoff's estimate, might be $50 billion. Heaven knows how
>> many clients of other money managers could meet the same fate as
>> redemption orders pour in.
>>
>> It's no great feat to arrest a man who tells a federal agent "there is
>> no innocent explanation" for his actions and that he expects to go to
>> jail. The Securities and Exchange Commission blew many chances over
>> the past decade to uncover his ruse, even after receiving detailed
>> tips.
>>
>> It's unclear why the SEC failed to stop Madoff, whether because of
>> corruption, a lack of smarts, a dearth of interest, or some
>> combination. We can say with confidence, though, that many other huge
>> frauds are still operating freely today -- and that the government
>> might not be inclined to intervene, even when it knows all about them.
>>
>> Business Models
>>
>> After all, Madoff's scheme -- at least in spirit, if not in its
>> nefarious intent -- wasn't much different than the business models at
>> some of the nation's largest failed financial institutions.
>>
>> Back in May, four months before it collapsed, American International
>> Group Inc. increased its dividend at the same time it unveiled plans
>> to raise $12.5 billion in capital. Later, when its cash ran out, AIG
>> got a government bailout, the size of which has expanded to about $150
>> billion.
>>
>> Whether you call that a Ponzi scheme or something less sinister, AIG
>> was paying old investors with money raised from new investors. The
>> same could be said of many banks that blew through billions of dollars
>> in freshly raised capital the past couple of years, continuing to pay
>> large dividends even as their balance sheets quietly imploded.
>>
>> So why have other Ponzi-esque operators emerged scot-free (so far)
>> with taxpayer bailouts, while Madoff gets pinched?
>>
>> The Cox Theory
>>
>> Sure, there is Madoff's own confession, plus the sheer brazenness of
>> his conduct. And Madoff's collapse doesn't threaten to bring down the
>> global financial system, as far as we know. Yet perhaps the best
>> explanation can be found in a Dec. 4 speech by SEC Chairman
>> Christopher Cox on why the government needs an exit strategy to unwind
>> its myriad bailout commitments.
>>
>> "From the standpoint of the SEC, the most obvious problem with
>> breaking down the arm's-length relationship between government, as the
>> regulator, and business, as the regulated, is that it threatens to
>> undermine our enforcement and regulatory regime," Cox said.
>>
>> "When the government becomes both referee and player, the game changes
>> rather dramatically for every other participant. Rules that might be
>> rigorously applied to private-sector competitors will not necessarily
>> be applied in the same way to the sovereign who makes the rules."
>>
>> Cox failed to mention that the SEC already was a toothless tiger under
>> his watch, long before this year's bailouts took root. Give him credit
>> for candor, though. The chairman of the SEC is now on record saying
>> the government can't be expected to enforce the nation's securities
>> laws even-handedly at companies where its own financial interests are
>> at stake.
>>
>> Fair Game
>>
>> He's right. The government can't live up to the task, even if it
>> wanted to.
>>
>> Madoff probably wasn't the biggest Ponzi-scheme artist out there. He's
>> just the first of his size to get nailed during the current bear
>> market.
>>
>> He also knew he was fair game for the government. The people running
>> companies with taxpayer bailout money know there's an excellent chance
>> they won't be. As long as that remains true, this crisis of confidence
>> isn't over by a long shot.
>
> Get out of this stock market. Anticipate it going lower in Jan. 2009.
> You can
> always get back in if, and that's a big "if', it shows stability. Cash
> is KING!
>
> mitch
>
It's all a Prymid scheme, at least of late. They suckerd and scammed a
lot of investors into buying air. They early and biggest and Hedge Funds
made billions, if not trillions and when the house of cards or empty
values came crashing down it took everyone's most epople's retirement
funds and a lot of companies, our economy down as well as the rest of
the world, looking at it at this point. Uncle Sammy was sitting on it's
hands. The Politicians were and are guilty of doing their bidding and
changing or eliminatin our Laws to keep these Predators at bay.
We are ruled by Globalist Wall Street and Bankers, none of which we
elected.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Onesuite Question
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/136859395009c10f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 18 2008 5:20 pm
From: Zee

On Dec 18, 11:54 pm, "NancyR" <nan...@nospam.net> wrote:
> I've used Onesuite for years with few problems. I had it set up where I
> did not have to enter my pin number each time I made a call. About a week
> ago this feature stopped working. I checked my account at their web site
> and it was still set up. I sent an email to Onesuite with no response. So
> I deleted the setup and then re-entered it, but that did not fix the
> problem.
>
> Has anyone had this problem lately?
>
> Nancy

Nancy are you dialing the 1-800-3159339? I am having problems with
that too from time to time. Try to use the other 800 number,
1-800-3165123 and see if that works. It works on my end. But if you
are using a local access number then try another Onesuite local access
number. Hope it helps.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 18 2008 5:25 pm
From: Zee

Hi Nancy, are you dialing the 1-800-3159339? I had the same problem a
while back on pinless dialing using that 800 number. Try the other 800
number 1-800-3165123. If you are using a local access number then try
another Onesuite local access number. Hope this helps.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 18 2008 6:21 pm
From: "NancyR"

"Zee" <zzaldy@gmail.com> wrote in message news:a9cb322d-b920-47e0-95fd->

"Hi Nancy, are you dialing the 1-800-3159339? I had the same problem a
while back on pinless dialing using that 800 number. Try the other 800
number 1-800-3165123. If you are using a local access number then try
another Onesuite local access number. Hope this helps."

Zee,
Thanks so much for responding. The second number works fine. It's too bad
that Onesuite couldn't suggest this.

Nancy

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 18 2008 7:24 pm
From: Samatha Hill -- take out TRASH to reply

I was told once that I had to reset my PIN accounts every so often, as
Onesuite only holds the numbers for a certain period of time as a
courtesy in case you don't close your account and someone else gets your
phone number they can't use your Onesuite account.

NancyR wrote:
> I've used Onesuite for years with few problems. I had it set up where I
> did not have to enter my pin number each time I made a call. About a week
> ago this feature stopped working. I checked my account at their web site
> and it was still set up. I sent an email to Onesuite with no response. So
> I deleted the setup and then re-entered it, but that did not fix the
> problem.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Warning re Biodegradable Plastic Bags
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/ad8779c939ff4750?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 18 2008 6:06 pm
From: Zee

On Dec 18, 6:58 am, Evelyn Leeper <elee...@optonline.net> wrote:
> MSfort...@mcpmail.com wrote:
> > On Dec 17, 2:58 pm, Evelyn Leeper <elee...@optonline.net> wrote:
> >> If, like me, you like to keep a plastic bag or two in your jacket pocket
> >> in case you need one, *don't* try this with biodegradable plastic bags.
>
> >> You see, they are ... well, biodegradable, and after some period of time
> >> in your pocket, will degrade into a pile of tiny plastic confetti which
> >> manages to cling to just about everything.
>
> >> :-( :-(
>
> >> (My only consolation is that I assume that over time the various
> >> minuscule flakes I keep finding will degrade to something invisible to
> >> the human eye.)
>
> > Always wise to be skeptical of new technology, but I doubt you have a
> > problem. Unless you have sunlight and a compost pile in your pocket,
> > the bag may outlast you.
>
> You missed my point--I had a bag that degraded even without sunlight and
> a compost pile in my pocket.
>
> (It could be worse--I know someone who almost burned themselves carrying
> keys and a 9V transistor battery in their pocket when a key ended out
> resting on both terminals of the battery for a fair length of time. As
> it was, it melted the hard candy they had in that pocket!)
>
> --
> Evelyn C. Leeper
> Be braver. You cannot cross a chasm in two small jumps.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks for sharing your stories. Lucky for me I keep the plastic bags
on my cars glove compartment.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 18 2008 11:56 pm
From: asiandollno1@gmail.com

From my experience some of the shopping plastic bag degrades faster
than the others even in the closet where it is warm, dark & dry.

AsianDoll

Since its my school semester break I have been using my free time
playing games like <a href=http://www.gamestotal.com> http://www.gamestotal.com
</a> <a href=http://uc.gamestotal.com> http://uc.gamestotal.com </a>
<a href=http://gc.gamestotal.com> http://gc.gamestotal.com </a> <a
href=http://3700ad.gamestotal.com> http://3700ad.gamestotal.com </a>
<a href=http://manga.gamestotal.com> http://manga.gamestotal.com </a>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Prime Rate at 3.25%, CD rate at 5.3%. Is it worth tapping a Prime - 0.5%
HELOC and buying CDs?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/0685200d3fdf48b4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 18 2008 6:17 pm
From: Shaun Eli

> You may want to look at how the interest rates are calculated. CDs
> are paid usually monthly and it is always the same. However, HELOC
> are calculated differently where most of the interest is paid up
> front. That is to say, if the interest rate changes quickly, you may
> be stuck paying the HELOC with much of the principal remaining and the
> CD being worthless.
>
> Regards,
>
> Rick

Nope, the only difference is that a home equity loan will compound the
interest and the CD will probably pay simple interest that you can't
reinvest at the same rate as the CD.

There are two major risks:

1. Interest rates rise so your home equity rate goes up but the rate
you receive on the CD is fixed, so you have what's known as negative
carry. In plain English, you lose money.

2. If you want to sell your house you have to pay off the HELOC so if
you don't have the money you'll have to break your CD, possibly at a
great loss if rates have increased.

There's also the possibility that your HELOC isn't Prime minus a half
percent forever, that it's an introductory rate, but you'd have to
check that.

Oh, and I think, but I'm not sure, that interest on a home equity loan
might be deductible only to some extent (like up to the purchase
price, or something like that) whereas the interest on the CD is fully
taxable.

For what it's worth, playing these kind of interest rate games, often
on a more sophisticated basis, is what gets financial institutions in
trouble from time to time. A whole class of them, called Structured
Investment Vehicles, collapsed when their strategy of borrowing short
and lending long didn't work out (for the experts among us, yes, their
liquidity dried up and that's really what killed them, but part of the
reason for the liquidity loss was their stategy).

Shaun Eli
www.BrainChampagne.com
Brain Champagne: Clever Comedy for Smart Minds (sm)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: "Told Ya this was coming - Laid-off worker kills CEO" (Q: Are scumbag
employers of illegal aliens NEXT?)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/702044f4857f4f23?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 18 2008 7:08 pm
From: Zee

On Dec 18, 7:11 am, kim <k...@everywhere.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 11:40:19 -0800 (PST), mugglefug...@googlemail.com
> wrote:
>
> >Ha ha ha! There are 11 million "illegal aliens" in the USA. You
> >propose to kick them all out? The Government is broke; it doesn't have
> >the money to hire buses and trains. Nor does it have the wit and skill
> >to find many of the 11 million.
>
> >And if it did, the US economy would shut down for good; crops would
> >rot on the farms. A new Dust Bowl, a new Great Depression would ensue.
>
> >Ha ha ha!
>
> Keep laughing while the government blows your money ....
>
> http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=6472915&page=1

Hmmm...thats a lot of money.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Earn money without Investment from Home online
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/96d4a4c956db53c3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 18 2008 7:13 pm
From: Zee

On Dec 18, 12:56 am, MHP <mhpbusin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If you want earn money from home online via, Just Visit this sitehttp://www.mhemail.50webs.com/

Site is down...so quickly?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Great price on flash drive
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/535aa5d17db8f034?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 18 2008 7:16 pm
From: Zee

On Dec 17, 12:00 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Forrest wrote:
> > "metspitzer" <kilow...@charter.net> wrote in message
> >news:umjgk4192tr3to90kuhcsjo1sk0lru2crg@4ax.com...
> >> On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 13:59:37 -0800, "Forrest"
> >> <REMOVETHISrunforre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:6qoohpFdpomoU1@mid.individual.net...
> >>>> Forrest wrote:
> >>>>> "Dave Garland" <dave.garl...@wizinfo.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:GY6dnRiHHoN_i9rUnZ2dnUVZ_qHinZ2d@posted.visi...
> >>>>>> Forrest wrote:
> >>>>>>> I thought I saw a question here not long ago, about flash
> >>>>>>> drives. Anywhoo ... can't believe how cheap they are now. My
> >>>>>>> brother asked me if I knew of
> >>>>>>> any good deals on them and I just found this at NewEgg. Hard to
> >>>>>>> beat, with
> >>>>>>> the free shipping. I already have an 8 gig LG drive and can't
> >>>>>>> say as I really use it that much but what the hell, for $9
> >>>>>>> after MIL, I'll bite. Just
> >>>>>>> thought I would pass it on. Makes for a good stocking stuffer.
> >>>>>>>http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233037
>
> >>>>>> But other people should be warned, that $10 rebate requires a
> >>>>>> sales receipt dated no later than 12/15. Unless NewEgg is
> >>>>>> staying late tonight, it's too late.
>
> >>>>>> Dave
>
> >>>>> Ah, good eyes. I didn't see that. Well, it's only 7 something PM,
> >>>>> here in California. I don't really NEED one but then again, the
> >>>>> one that I have could go out and I would probably have to pay a
> >>>>> lot more to replace it. How's that for a rationalization for
> >>>>> spending money? I'm a real sucker for free shipping.
>
> >>>> There's plenty on ebay for the same value, and 16Gs as well for
> >>>> the same price per GB
>
> >>> Didn't know that. I just started searching for them and found this
> >>> one. I ordered one last night and I see that the rebate has been
> >>> extended. Anywhoooo .. over n' out.
>
> >> Wasn't it 9 bucks after rebate last night? It is 10 bucks after
> >> rebate tonight.
>
> >> I was gonna order one anyway, but I just decided that I have no use
> >> for a 9$ one. I have less need for a 10$ one. :)
>
> > Yeah, you're right. I just took a look at it and they upped the price
> > by $1. I took a look at ebay a few hours ago and didn't see any 16
> > giggers with free shipping for that price.
>
> I said the same $/GB.
>
>
>
> > Whatever ... just thought it looked like a good deal. I guess because I must have paid about
> > three times that much for my LG brand 16 gig, on sale, no less. I
> > still think that it's a good price if someone needs one, or for a
> > cheap gift.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thats 16GB will be the same price of 8GB now after a few months. It's
been always like that so I guess if you don't have the need for a
larger flash drive then hold that 2gb of yours and wait until you need
more space to buy a bigger falsh drive.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 18 2008 9:08 pm
From: no-spam@sonic.net (Fake ID)

In article <u3E1l.12276$ZP4.8434@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com>,
Forrest <REMOVETHISrunforrest1@gmail.com> wrote:
>I thought I saw a question here not long ago, about flash drives. Anywhoo
>... can't believe how cheap they are now. My brother asked me if I knew of
>any good deals on them and I just found this at NewEgg. Hard to beat, with
>the free shipping. I already have an 8 gig LG drive and can't say as I
>really use it that much but what the hell, for $9 after MIL, I'll bite. Just
>thought I would pass it on. Makes for a good stocking stuffer.
>http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233037

Something I've been wondering...
Any first hand accounts of getting the Sandisk 4GB USB for $9 that
WalMart had back on Black Friday? My travels took me to 3 WalMarts that
day. In two, I encountered someone asking about them. Then
on the following Monday I overheard someone asking also. Just a hell of
a coincidence or pent up demand?

While 4G/$9 is okay, not spectacular, I was interested because they're
thinner than other USB flash drives, about the same thickness as a
typical USB cable. This means that when USB ports are stacked along
their long edge like my Gateway laptop the flash drive can be
plugged in without blocking the adjacent port.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: NIKE AIR JORDAN FORCE FUSION SHOES AJF 5 V JORDANs 5 FUSION NIKE
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/37b471a6d93b99ae?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 18 2008 9:46 pm
From: salewholeshu@163.com

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== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 18 2008 9:49 pm
From: salewholeshu@163.com

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Fusion 20 Jordan 19 shoes Air Jordan Force Fusion VIII (8), AJF 8
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/5abb52c3281abb19?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 18 2008 9:46 pm
From: salewholeshu@163.com

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== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 18 2008 9:50 pm
From: salewholeshu@163.com

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Home heating oil price?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/25ab6d7a439ac7f1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 18 2008 10:11 pm
From: Ann

On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 13:36:59 -0800, tmclone wrote:
> On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 13:53:18 -0400, Jim Elbrecht <elbre...@email.com>
> wrote:

>>On Mon, 1 Sep 2008 12:02:33 -0400, "h" <tmcl...@searchmachine.com> wrote:
> -snip-
>>>Not in upstate NY it's not. Some places are charging over $5/gallon.
>
>>I think I'll change my comment to "Who? Where?". You keep saying
>>that NY has the highest taxes in the union- and it doesn't. Then you say
>>that upstate costs are higher than downstate, which is ridiculous. You
>>must live in a little bubble where everyone picks on you. I challenge
>>you to find me some >$5.00 oil in *your* upstate NY.
>
> You must be learning impaired. 9 of the top 10 property tax counties in
> the nation are in NY. I happen to live in one of them. You obviously
> don't.
>
> http://www.syracuse.com/graphics/index.ssf/2008/04/new_york_counties_lead_us_in_p.html
>
> PLONK!

I live in rural PA, bordering NY's southern tier - and recall when those
numbers were reported on local TV. (The only stations we get are from
NY.) My response was "what's the big deal?" I pay about the same $ of my
property's FMV in RE taxes and receive fewer services. For example, the
state does the paved roads and policing. Another consideration is
partial RE tax rebates available to low/moderate income taxpayers, e.g.
IT-214. Also, PA's personal income tax doesn't have itemized deductions,
while NY's piggybacks on the 1040. One has to look at the whole tax
picture, not just the RE tax..

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Friday, December 19, 2008

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 18 new messages in 10 topics - digest

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