http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en
misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* 533,000 Jobs Lost While Feds Import 140,000 Foreign Workers! - 9 messages, 7
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a1526898a9ebc1d2?hl=en
* Is keeping a car 50 years frugal? - 4 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/973c7ade053ebb0f?hl=en
* supreme court to determine obama presidential eligibilty - 5 messages, 4
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/546a49e0512f561c?hl=en
* The Next Bank Heist: DEBIT CARDS - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/535b1a94bef90ab2?hl=en
* Folks, this is a real depression, protect your assets - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/cb1cc803cf7130ab?hl=en
* Miss Manners on credit cards and protective clerks/managers - 2 messages, 2
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d050e2dac2223a44?hl=en
* Doorbell always uses electricity! - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3198294a289e9e57?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: 533,000 Jobs Lost While Feds Import 140,000 Foreign Workers!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a1526898a9ebc1d2?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 3:38 pm
From: clams_casino
suds macheath wrote:
>
> ---Teacher's don't get paid through the summer months..
Call it what you want. They average $60k around here for a job that
provides them with 12 weeks and a dozen holidays off. Try to find that
in the corporate world.
> ..they are 10 month employees...you have to work for a while to save
> up 60 vacation days.....and here they are limited to 60 days....
>
> Other than UAW
>
>> and government employees, I'm not aware of many paying full (or even
>> 90%) health coverage.
>
>
> ----But most have health care benefits for salaried employees, do they
> not?
But typically at about 40-50% - not 90m- 100%.
== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 3:42 pm
From: clams_casino
John Galt wrote:
> Lubow wrote:
>
>>
>> "John Galt" <kady101@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:LuF_k.382974$vK2.302392@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com...
>>
>>> Lubow wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> But, why would a retired engineer want to get up at 6AM and be
>>>>> grading papers in front of the TV at night for 30K per year?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thirty K per year? On which planet is that?
>>>
>>>
>>> Yours. The average teaching starting salary in the US is @ 32K. Look
>>> at the NEA website -- one of the things they are pushing for is a
>>> national minimum starting salary of 40K.
>>
>>
>> I have read of teachers in the red states requiring food stamps to
>> get by. Thanks for sharing that piece of info.
>
>
> It has nothing to do with red/blue. Starting salary in Houston is 38K,
> Dallas 37K, and Kansas City 36K, while they're under 32K in
> Philadelphia and Chicago, and 34.5K in D.C. I suspect the beginning
> teacher in the NYC Metro Area (42K) is a lot more likely to be on food
> stamps than the starting teacher in Houston.
>
> JG
Teachers do tend to start at relatively low wages, but their pay tends
to scale up at a much faster rate than typical corporate jobs. Most
corporate jobs tend to get inflation plus perhaps a few percent with
some raises with promotions each perhaps five years. Teachers
typically receive inflation adjustments plus regular pay grade increase
that greatly reward those who have a few years on the job.
== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 3:45 pm
From: "HeyBub"
Mike wrote:
>
>
> the decline in the value of computer programming careers was the
> natural result of the rise of microsoft because the smart programmers
> refused to be caged by the lame ass windows environment and went off
> to find greener pastures elsewhere. another reason is that venture
> capitalists don't like funding software projects for which, on the
> off chance one actually becomes highly successful, the profits will
> all wind up in the hands of a highly predatory monopolistic law firm
> that specializes in violating antitrust (ie. msft).
Quite possibly. Programmers are like dentists - technically oriented,
scientifically trained, but also artists. Every sterotype of the beatnik
living in a garret in Greenwich Village holds for (most) programmers, even
if they wear three-piece suits in a commercial environment.
I've seen programs that didn't work, wouldn't work, and couldn't be made to
work, but were revered because of the style, elegance, and cleverness of the
author.
On the other hand, what's a "smart" programmer? The programmers who started
with Microsoft in the early years, and stuck it out, are multimillionaires.
Of course they were not true to their own natures, sinned against the basic
beauty of the machine-man interaction, and degenerated into venal slugs -
but they retired at age 30 on a 60-foot yacht.
They had no shame.
== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 3:49 pm
From: John Galt
BobR wrote:
> On Dec 7, 6:25 am, John Galt <kady...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Kurt Ullman wrote:
>>> In article <nuI_k.392484$3I2.191...@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com>,
>>> John Galt <kady...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I can tell you that in Houston, the starting wage for an RN is about 50K
>>>> - 60K , and there's not enough to go around. Nursing wages are regional,
>>>> and your part of the country may differ. But down here, they are *not*
>>>> being brought to save money -- they're being brought because there's not
>>>> enough coming out of the nursing schools to meet demand.
>>>> JG
>>> The nursing shortage probably isn't at that end. Studies have
>>> consistently shown that between 15% and 20% of RNs under 65 are no
>>> longer in nursing. You get even half of those back and you are in good
>>> shape. Even at the height of my youthful powers, I couldn't take more
>>> than 3 years at a time before I had to get out at least for awhile.
>> Yea, that's the other issue. Since the consolidation of private hospital
>> chains (you probably know this better than I do) floor nurse/patient
>> ratios have skyrocketed, making the job a crappy one. (Doesn't explain
>> why the schools are short on nurses, but the entire "job satisfaction"
>> thing is obviously playing in.
>>
>> JG- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> With the growing uncertain future of the healthcare field, nobody sees
> healthcare as a good choice for a career. Who wants to spend huge
> sums of money on graduate and post graduate degrees along with the
> subsequent low paying years as a resident for a career that may only
> pay the equilivent of teacher pay?
That's one of the big question marks in the 800 lb gorilla called
"health care reform." It's hard to imagine any nationalized system
working without reducing the pay of the higher-level medical
professionals and the profits of hospitals.
JG
>
== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 3:57 pm
From: John Galt
HeyBub wrote:
> John Galt wrote:
>>> I have read of teachers in the red states requiring food stamps to
>>> get by. Thanks for sharing that piece of info.
>> It has nothing to do with red/blue. Starting salary in Houston is 38K,
>> Dallas 37K, and Kansas City 36K, while they're under 32K in
>> Philadelphia and Chicago, and 34.5K in D.C. I suspect the beginning
>> teacher in the NYC Metro Area (42K) is a lot more likely to be on
>> food stamps than the starting teacher in Houston.
>>
>
> Take that Houston $38K and wind it down to an hourly rate.
>
> Let's see... Texas mandates 180 days of instruction. At seven hours per day,
> that's 1,260 hours. $38,000/1260 is a bit over $30/hour. Not as much as a
> Detroit auto-worker, but not chump-change either.
>
> Here's another bit of trivia: The Houston Independent School District spends
> about 45% of it's employee budget on teacher salaries and perks. Oh, you've
> got to have somebody to drive the busses and print the paychecks, but when
> less than half your personnel costs go directly to your primary mission,
> something's amiss.
There was a movement up a few years ago (something to do with the owner
behind overstock.com, IIRC) to get school districts to agree that 60% of
their tax receipts should be earmarked for classroom use. It went
nowhere, but illustrated the fact that most school districts maintain a
significant non-classroom bureacracy. PART of that is that we're the
only major nation without a national curriculum, and each school
district thus needs curriculum educrats to figure out what's going to be
taught.
But the bloat in the school districts is indefensible --- and I suspect
HISD is less an offender than many.
JG
>
>
== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 4:27 pm
From: Caesar Romano
On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 20:07:46 -0500, "Lubow" <lubow@lubowindustries.com>
wrote Re Re: 533,000 Jobs Lost While Feds Import 140,000 Foreign
Workers!:
>>
>> Doesn't say much for the prospects of American tech careers. If I had
>> been smarter I would have been one of those who left after 10-years
>> instead of hanging in for 40 (well, 37 actually) years.
>
>Are you a PE?
Yes. I have PE licenses in two states in two separate disciplines (2
in California and 1 in Alabama).
== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 4:58 pm
From: BobR
On Dec 7, 5:49 pm, John Galt <kady...@gmail.com> wrote:
> BobR wrote:
> > On Dec 7, 6:25 am, John Galt <kady...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Kurt Ullman wrote:
> >>> In article <nuI_k.392484$3I2.191...@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com>,
> >>> John Galt <kady...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> I can tell you that in Houston, the starting wage for an RN is about 50K
> >>>> - 60K , and there's not enough to go around. Nursing wages are regional,
> >>>> and your part of the country may differ. But down here, they are *not*
> >>>> being brought to save money -- they're being brought because there's not
> >>>> enough coming out of the nursing schools to meet demand.
> >>>> JG
> >>> The nursing shortage probably isn't at that end. Studies have
> >>> consistently shown that between 15% and 20% of RNs under 65 are no
> >>> longer in nursing. You get even half of those back and you are in good
> >>> shape. Even at the height of my youthful powers, I couldn't take more
> >>> than 3 years at a time before I had to get out at least for awhile.
> >> Yea, that's the other issue. Since the consolidation of private hospital
> >> chains (you probably know this better than I do) floor nurse/patient
> >> ratios have skyrocketed, making the job a crappy one. (Doesn't explain
> >> why the schools are short on nurses, but the entire "job satisfaction"
> >> thing is obviously playing in.
>
> >> JG- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > With the growing uncertain future of the healthcare field, nobody sees
> > healthcare as a good choice for a career. Who wants to spend huge
> > sums of money on graduate and post graduate degrees along with the
> > subsequent low paying years as a resident for a career that may only
> > pay the equilivent of teacher pay?
>
> That's one of the big question marks in the 800 lb gorilla called
> "health care reform." It's hard to imagine any nationalized system
> working without reducing the pay of the higher-level medical
> professionals and the profits of hospitals.
>
> JG
>
>
>
> - Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Please show me where the hospitals are making all that profit. You
want to reform healthcare then the first place you look is at
insurance companies. They sit in the position of screwing both the
healthcare providers and the patients. They sole purpose is to make a
profit and they don't give a damn how they do it. The insurance
companies dictate what will be paid to the providers and that extends
to what the providers can charge. Tell me one other business that
must accept what the customer decides they will pay rather that amount
is enough to cover their costs. If the providers don't accept, the
insurance companies have no qualms about forcing the patients to go
elsewhere even if the quality of the care is unacceptable.
== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 5:37 pm
From: "Percival P. Cassidy"
On 12/07/08 07:58 pm BobR wrote:
> Please show me where the hospitals are making all that profit. You
> want to reform healthcare then the first place you look is at
> insurance companies. They sit in the position of screwing both the
> healthcare providers and the patients. They sole purpose is to make a
> profit and they don't give a damn how they do it. The insurance
> companies dictate what will be paid to the providers and that extends
> to what the providers can charge. Tell me one other business that
> must accept what the customer decides they will pay rather that amount
> is enough to cover their costs. If the providers don't accept, the
> insurance companies have no qualms about forcing the patients to go
> elsewhere even if the quality of the care is unacceptable.
People tell me that things have changed in Australia in the last 20
years or so, but it used to be that most hospitals were run as a public
service by religious bodies (denominations or religious orders) or by
(semi-)government bodies: e.g., the Brisbane Hospitals Board.
And many of the health-insurance organizations were typically some kind
of cooperative.
Perce
== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 5:52 pm
From: The Daring Dufas
HeyBub wrote:
> John Galt wrote:
>>> I have read of teachers in the red states requiring food stamps to
>>> get by. Thanks for sharing that piece of info.
>> It has nothing to do with red/blue. Starting salary in Houston is 38K,
>> Dallas 37K, and Kansas City 36K, while they're under 32K in
>> Philadelphia and Chicago, and 34.5K in D.C. I suspect the beginning
>> teacher in the NYC Metro Area (42K) is a lot more likely to be on
>> food stamps than the starting teacher in Houston.
>>
>
> Take that Houston $38K and wind it down to an hourly rate.
>
> Let's see... Texas mandates 180 days of instruction. At seven hours per day,
> that's 1,260 hours. $38,000/1260 is a bit over $30/hour. Not as much as a
> Detroit auto-worker, but not chump-change either.
>
> Here's another bit of trivia: The Houston Independent School District spends
> about 45% of it's employee budget on teacher salaries and perks. Oh, you've
> got to have somebody to drive the busses and print the paychecks, but when
> less than half your personnel costs go directly to your primary mission,
> something's amiss.
>
>
The administrators soak up a heck of a lot of
money. Some of them are paid CEO like salaries.
TDD
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Is keeping a car 50 years frugal?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/973c7ade053ebb0f?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 3:43 pm
From: "'nam vet."
It's going on 47 next year. should I keep it? What if I buy a ford and
they go under. warrantee, parts service?
--
When the Power of Love,replaces the Love of Power.
that's Evolution.
== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 3:52 pm
From: "Lou"
"'nam vet." <georgewkspam@humboldt1.com> wrote in message
news:georgewkspam-FF6CDA.15425507122008@news.humboldt1.com...
> It's going on 47 next year. should I keep it? What if I buy a ford and
> they go under. warrantee, parts service?
Let's see, you have a 47 year old car, and you're worried about warrantees,
parts, and service on a new(er) car? Whatever happens, the parts and
service situation would have to be easier than it is for that 47 year old
car.
== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 4:20 pm
From: "Daniel T."
"'nam vet." <georgewkspam@humboldt1.com> wrote:
> It's going on 47 next year. should I keep it? What if I buy a ford and
> they go under. warrantee, parts service?
How much does your 47 year old car cost you over the next year? Over the
next 5 years? Over the next 10 years? Compare that to the cost of a new
car...
== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 5:36 pm
From: "h"
"Daniel T." <daniel_t@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:daniel_t-C5F6C0.19202207122008@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...
> "'nam vet." <georgewkspam@humboldt1.com> wrote:
>
>> It's going on 47 next year. should I keep it? What if I buy a ford and
>> they go under. warrantee, parts service?
>
> How much does your 47 year old car cost you over the next year? Over the
> next 5 years? Over the next 10 years? Compare that to the cost of a new
> car...
Assuming the OP isn't trolling, I'll bet the 47 year old car was built to
last and might very well be worth keeping on the road until it dies. New
cars, particularly anything built in the USA are not worth much. When my old
Subaru (built in Japan) dies I will reluctantly replace it with one built
here, but I already know they aren't built as well as they were when made in
Japan. I've seen the Consumer Reports stats.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: supreme court to determine obama presidential eligibilty
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/546a49e0512f561c?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 4:05 pm
From: "JR Weiss"
"AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote ...
>
>>> OK, I found it. No. 08A407. But this suit accepts that Obama was born in the
>>> USA and was an American citizen at birth.
>>
>> And? Again, a citizen is not eligible to be President. -Dave
>>
> correct. american citizenship does not automatically constitutionally qualify
> one to be prez
However, an American citizen who achieved that citizenship by virtue of being
born in the US IS a "natural born" citizen, and therefore meets the basic
criterion!
== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 4:18 pm
From: "Daniel T."
"Dave" <noway1@noway2.not> wrote:
> > >
> > > Different case:
> > > http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/12/obama-birth-cer.html
> >
> > OK, I found it. No. 08A407. But this suit accepts that Obama was born in
> > the USA and was an American citizen at birth.
>
> And? Again, a citizen is not eligible to be President. -Dave
So only non-citizens can be President of the USA? You might want to
rethink your logic.
== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 4:44 pm
From: "Dave"
"JR Weiss" <jrweiss@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:ghhodm$fdj$1@news.motzarella.org...
> "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote ...
>>
>>>> OK, I found it. No. 08A407. But this suit accepts that Obama was born
>>>> in the USA and was an American citizen at birth.
>>>
>>> And? Again, a citizen is not eligible to be President. -Dave
>>>
>> correct. american citizenship does not automatically constitutionally
>> qualify one to be prez
>
> However, an American citizen who achieved that citizenship by virtue of
> being born in the US IS a "natural born" citizen, and therefore meets the
> basic criterion!
Unless you become a citizen of another country where you can not hold dual
citizenship.
Or unless your grandmother swears that you were born in another country.
Or unless...
Too many unanswered questions. We'll have to wait for the Supremes to
ule. -Dave
== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 4:46 pm
From: "Dave"
>> > > Different case:
>> > > http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/12/obama-birth-cer.html
>> >
>> > OK, I found it. No. 08A407. But this suit accepts that Obama was born
>> > in
>> > the USA and was an American citizen at birth.
>>
>> And? Again, a citizen is not eligible to be President. -Dave
>
> So only non-citizens can be President of the USA? You might want to
> rethink your logic.
You have to be a "natural born" citizen to be President. As I've stated
before, the (well disputed) birth certificate is a red herring. There is a
good chance Obama was a citizen of Indonesia at some point. If that is so
(probably is, but the Supremes will rule on it) then Obama is not a natural
born citizen of the U.S. -Dave
== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 5:33 pm
From: Shawn Hirn
In article <ghhql7$6fi$1@nntp.motzarella.org>, "Dave" <noway@nohow.not>
wrote:
> "JR Weiss" <jrweiss@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:ghhodm$fdj$1@news.motzarella.org...
> > "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote ...
> >>
> >>>> OK, I found it. No. 08A407. But this suit accepts that Obama was born
> >>>> in the USA and was an American citizen at birth.
> >>>
> >>> And? Again, a citizen is not eligible to be President. -Dave
> >>>
> >> correct. american citizenship does not automatically constitutionally
> >> qualify one to be prez
> >
> > However, an American citizen who achieved that citizenship by virtue of
> > being born in the US IS a "natural born" citizen, and therefore meets the
> > basic criterion!
>
> Unless you become a citizen of another country where you can not hold dual
> citizenship.
That's just your opinion.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Next Bank Heist: DEBIT CARDS
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/535b1a94bef90ab2?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 5:29 pm
From: "h"
"sarge137" <rbooth9858@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:15bd609e-054c-
>If anyone knows of a reward program with ALL of the following criteria
>please post a link. I'd love to see it:
>1. No annual fee.
>2. Substantial credit line (at least 15K)
>3. Full 30 day grace period from date of transaction.
>4. No minimum average balance.
>5. Fix APR less than 8%.
>6. Includes every penny of all transactions, not just retail
>purchases.
>7. Pays rewards by check at least semi-annually.
Citibank, except for #5. I have no idea what the interest rate is since I
pay it off every month. I suspect it is quite high.
I get back $250 by check every time I hit 250,000 "points", which happened
three time this year for a cash back of $750. Not bad since I never pay them
a dime.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 5:30 pm
From: Shawn Hirn
In article
<15bd609e-054c-4c24-91b3-509dbfe7df22@x38g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,
sarge137 <rbooth9858@yahoo.com> wrote:
> If anyone knows of a reward program with ALL of the following criteria
> please post a link. I'd love to see it:
>
> 1. No annual fee.
> 2. Substantial credit line (at least 15K)
> 3. Full 30 day grace period from date of transaction.
> 4. No minimum average balance.
> 5. Fix APR less than 8%.
> 6. Includes every penny of all transactions, not just retail
> purchases.
> 7. Pays rewards by check at least semi-annually.
Check http://www.bankrate.com for information on credit card deals.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Folks, this is a real depression, protect your assets
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/cb1cc803cf7130ab?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 5:17 pm
From: pyotr filipivich
[Default] I missed the Staff Meeting but the Minutes record that
Gunner Asch <gunner@NOSPAMlightspeed.net> reported Elvis on Sun, 07
Dec 2008 01:56:48 -0800 in misc.survivalism :
>On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 00:57:01 -0500, Jeffrey Turner
><jturner@localnet.com> wrote:
>
>>Dave wrote:
>>>> Not to mention that all that "unskilled labor" with a few more bucks in
>>>> their pockets would buy more stuff, which would generate private sector
>>>> jobs making and selling that stuff. Dave might want to learn something
>>>> about the multiplier effect.
>>>>
>>>> --Jeff
>>>
>>> Jeff - Marxism does not work. -Dave
>>
>>Dave,
>>
>>Your brain doesn't work, apparently. If you've got economic facts to
>>argue with, show 'em. Or shut up and learn.
>>
>>--Jeff
>
>
>Deff appears to be in denial.
>
>Heads up..Marxism DOESNT work. Never has, never will.
Marxism will work, provided, and I repeat _PROVIDED_ that every
one acts in a completely moral and unselfish manner. Provided there
is 100% compliance with this requirement, it would work. But in the
real world, outside possibly in a small monastery, Marxism fails,
because Marxism is not dealing with people as they really are.
tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Miss Manners on credit cards and protective clerks/managers
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d050e2dac2223a44?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 5:33 pm
From: "h"
"Steve Daniels" <sdaniels@gorge.net> wrote in message
news:3ffoj4ts8m623kqv55ll784r0mg5fpsb3f@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 5 Dec 2008 15:15:00 -0800, against all advice, something
> compelled Coffee's For Closers <USENET2008@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG>, to
> say:
>
>> The logic is to make a credit card transaction as easy as
>> possible. So that you won't be discouraged by the small extra
>> hassle of ID. The Visa and MasterCard associations want card
>> usage to be as easy as cash, or even easier.
>
>
> You know on the back, on that little strip where you're supposed
> to put your signature? Mine says, "Ask for picture ID."
>
>
And you know what? That's not legal. Not signing the card is a violation of
the card agreement, and merchants are not supposed to accept unsigned cards.
If they do the charge can be easily contested. The post office, for example,
will not take your credit card if it is not signed. Neither will many
businesses, mine included. Also, at least here in NY, it is a violation of
the merchant agreement to ask a customer for ID if they are using a credit
card. So...if you don't sign your card I can't accept it, and I'm not
allowed to ask for the picture ID you'd rather give. How often are you able
to use the card for anything expect swipe purchases?
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 5:53 pm
From: Evelyn Leeper
h wrote:
> "Steve Daniels" <sdaniels@gorge.net> wrote in message
> news:3ffoj4ts8m623kqv55ll784r0mg5fpsb3f@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 5 Dec 2008 15:15:00 -0800, against all advice, something
>> compelled Coffee's For Closers <USENET2008@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG>, to
>> say:
>>
>>> The logic is to make a credit card transaction as easy as
>>> possible. So that you won't be discouraged by the small extra
>>> hassle of ID. The Visa and MasterCard associations want card
>>> usage to be as easy as cash, or even easier.
>>
>> You know on the back, on that little strip where you're supposed
>> to put your signature? Mine says, "Ask for picture ID."
>>
>>
> And you know what? That's not legal. Not signing the card is a violation of
> the card agreement, and merchants are not supposed to accept unsigned cards.
> If they do the charge can be easily contested. The post office, for example,
> will not take your credit card if it is not signed. Neither will many
> businesses, mine included. Also, at least here in NY, it is a violation of
> the merchant agreement to ask a customer for ID if they are using a credit
> card. So...if you don't sign your card I can't accept it, and I'm not
> allowed to ask for the picture ID you'd rather give. How often are you able
> to use the card for anything expect swipe purchases?
Mine says that, and I've never had a problem--including at the post
office. They ask for picture ID, I show it, and that's that.
--
Evelyn C. Leeper
Be braver. You cannot cross a chasm in two small jumps.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Doorbell always uses electricity!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3198294a289e9e57?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 5:49 pm
From: Andy Energy
On Nov 23, 7:51 pm, "hall...@aol.com" <hall...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Nov 23, 10:25 pm, d...@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <niqii4l1g9aapqul39t7ot2oalisq1b...@4ax.com>, PeterD wrote:
> > >On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 16:40:02 -0800, "Bill"
> > ><billnomailnosp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > >>This thread has seemed to hit a nerve!
>
> > >>Why are so many people getting upset that I am working to eliminate "vampire
> > >>loads" in my house and reduce my electric bill?
>
> > >>Anyway here are the facts about "vampire power" for those who are interested
> > >>in this (can be 5% of your electric bill and 75% of the power for electronic
> > >>things is used while the devices are turned off!)....
> > >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standby_power
>
> > >Pleae do not confuse Wikipedia for facts. As to that 75% number, it is
> > >highly suspect.
>
> > >Again, a simple cost/benefit analysis would show the best path to
> > >follow. However, simple math is beyond many people who blindly follow
> > >whatever the current fad is (be it global warming, electric cars, or
> > >whatever) in an attempt to appear 'on top of things', and 'all wise'.
>
> > >In the end, sure you can save a few penny's of electricity, and spend
> > >dollars doing so.
>
> > <SNIP from here>
>
> > Putting in a little effort can decrease idling load by maybe 20 watts,
> > give or take (with major variation from household to household). That
> > amounts to about 175 KWH per year, or roughly about $20 per year at
> > current average residential electricity rates.
>
> > I really ought to get a power strip for my TV. Most of the energy it
> > consumes is consumed while it is off. Same is true of my DTV box. If my
> > computer system was not on a power strip, most of the energy consumed by
> > my printer and cable modem (and its wallwart) would be consumed while they
> > are off. If not for the power strip, about 5% of the energy consumed by
> > my monitor and 20% of the energy consumed by the contents of my tower case
> > would be consumed while they were off. And over 90% of the energy
> > consumed by my landline phone is consumed while it is on standby.
>
> > That 75% number sounds high to me - I think more like 30%, possibly
> > 40%, which is still a lot.
>
> > - Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> tv life expectancy and othewr deevices may be less,turned off from
> thermal cycle shock.
>
> DTV boxes use idle time to download guide updates and other utilities.
>
> its not a free lunch- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Turning on and off electronic devices, does it shorten their life?
Even if it does the electricity saved over the life of the unit will
buy a newer more efficient unit when it finally dies.
So here is my own research, I have a TV that is about 25 years old and
most of those years it has been turned off at the power strip. It
gets used about and average of 1 hour per day and it still works.
I do know that the new cable boxes when shut off on a power strip
loose their programming and can take some time to turn back on.
So we need to press the manufactures of these devices to have a very
low consumption when we are not using them. I've measured several
cable and TV's off and they can consume more than 40 watts off.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 5:55 pm
From: Andy Energy
On Nov 25, 10:20 am, Dave Garland <dave.garl...@wizinfo.com> wrote:
> Red Green wrote:
> > Probably cost a fortune to make refrigs that could use piped in air from
> > outside. And the further south you are the longer the ROI breakeven.
>
> Yes. I've been thinking of doing that for the last 40 years. It would
> work best if you could build the refrigerator into the house (think
> walk-in cooler, but smaller, or the undercounter fridges found in bars).
> You'd need a fan to circulate outside (cold) air in, and dampers to
> close off from the outside, and a controller to regulate the dampers &
> fan and switch to powered refrigeration when the outside temperature is
> warmer than refrigerator-interior temperature. Ditto for the freezer,
> though even in Minnesota there isn't that long a period when outside
> temperature stays below 0 degrees F. (But outside air could be used to
> cool the coils of the powered refrigeration and increase its
> efficiency.) For that (in Minnesota) you could avoid much of the
> refrigeration energy for maybe 3 months, and get some unknown
> improvement most of the rest of the year.
>
> One side benefit is that if you're building the fridge, you're not
> constrained to fitting insulation within a thin metal shell, you can
> insulate as much as you want. The dampers and the door would be the
> parts that were harder to insulate.
>
> But it does sound like a lot of work to accomplish.
>
> Dave
About 25 years ago I read an article about the guy that built a
supreinsulated freezer with thermal mass in it. He used a heat pipe
to freeze it al winter and it wouel swing through the summer.
Wow this is a long ways from a door bell
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