Frugal Living: misc.consumers.frugal-living - 26 new messages in 11 topics

Wednesday, December 3, 2008

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 26 new messages in 11 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Are name-brand low-energy fluorescent "Green" bulbs any brighter than
store brand?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/16514de0eabde21c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 3 2008 11:07 am
From: zekfrivo@zekfrivolous.com (GregS)

In article <gh6f28$ln5$1@news.motzarella.org>, "John Weiss" <jrweiss98155atcomcastdotnet@invalid.invalid> wrote:
><jmeehan@columbus.rr.com> wrote...
>> BTW I mix traditional and fluorescent lamps. The end result is a
>very good color mix, somewhere between sunlight and standard lamps.
>So for the lady of the house who has makeup and clothing color mixing
>to do, it is great.
>
>So far I mix them in the kitchen, where we have recessed floods. I still like
>the intensity of the halogen right over the workspace of the stove and counter,
>
>with CFLs in the other places. Also, the single halogen in each bank lights up
>
>instantly, while the CFLs warm up, so I don't have to wait to work.

I will probably start using CFL's in the kitchen recessed positions after the halogen
fail. When i checked last The Home Deopot quit selling dimmer capable CFL's several
years ago, so I went with Halogen. I do like the Halogen color but some CFL's
are close. Figure $15 each for a dimmable CFL.

On another note, a GREEN label is on some 4 foot 40 Watt lamps GE Ecolux
tubes in the room here. They FAR outshine any other flourescent lamp
I have seen. They typically look twice as bright as the brightest lamp
here. They DO have a certain greenish color, and they don't have them at the Depot.

greg

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Free outdoor games for kids to play
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f49711f82329ceb9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 3 2008 11:43 am
From: lenona321@yahoo.com

I thought I'd post this because I've forgotten how to play most kids'
games that don't involve toys, and one hears about some of these only
in books such as the "Little House" series and "Pippi
Longstocking." (Namely, Run Sheep Run and Drop the Handkerchief,
which, I found, is similar to Duck Duck Goose.) While I remember Red
Rover, Marco Polo, Duck Duck Goose and maybe a few others, most of
these I don't know - and I didn't know anything about musical chairs
until my teens!

http://www.gameskidsplay.net/games/xtra_games.htm

Enjoy it!

Lenona.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A little help for the holidays. Looking to save a little money?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a81a2e0ffc803492?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 3 2008 11:46 am
From: clams_casino

webbshawn23@gmail.com wrote:

>Here is a little MONEY SAVING TIP. I come across a variety of things
>that people do to save money as a financial advisor. Here is one that
>is quick and simple. You and your business can benefit!
>
>
>

I was hesitant about your advise until I saw you posted it twice.
Scammers never post more than once.

Furthermore having a gmail address and posting via google groups is
another confidence factor that you are not a common spammer.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Miss Manners on credit cards and protective clerks/managers
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d050e2dac2223a44?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 3 2008 11:56 am
From: lenona321@yahoo.com

It's the second letter down.

What in the world is WRONG with the complainer's brain?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/02/AR2008120202943.html

Enjoy the third letter, too. (The subject is Miss Manners' biggest
peeve. You'd think people who write to her would know better by now
than to ask for help on this. Maybe only the youngest adults ARE
asking......?)

Lenona.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 3 2008 2:37 pm
From: BigDog1

On Dec 3, 12:56 pm, lenona...@yahoo.com wrote:
> It's the second letter down.
>
> What in the world is WRONG with the complainer's brain?
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/02/AR200...
>
> Enjoy the third letter, too. (The subject is Miss Manners' biggest
> peeve. You'd think people who write to her would know better by now
> than to ask for help on this. Maybe only the youngest adults ARE
> asking......?)
>
> Lenona.

The complainer's brain is mush. But then so are the brains of some of
the posters in this and other consumer oriented groups who piss and
moan about this very issue from time to time.

Technically, asking for an ID is a violation of the merchant account
agreement. But that's just as stupid as those who complain about it.
You can't write a check without ID. How is a credit/debit card
transaction any different? If I had my way, by law, the only
transaction you could conduct without a valid, current state issued ID
is cash.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Folks, this is a real depression, protect your assets
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/cb1cc803cf7130ab?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 13 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 3 2008 12:15 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

wismel@yahoo.com wrote:

> Some advice from someone who lived and profitted during one.

But who doesnt have a clue about the basics.

> Stay in cash, safe investments. Safe deposit box or treasuries.

> Safe CD's at a safe bank.

Doesnt need to be a safe bank anymore with the FDIC guarantee.

> Protect your capital so it doesn't drop in value.

Easier said than done.

> Depressions result in long deflationary period. Just check Japan out, over
> decade of declining asset values. Cash was the only thing that held value

Wrong again. It declined in value due to inflation.

> and relatively increased compared to real estate, stocks, bonds, etc.

Wrong again with some bonds, particularly outside that country.

> During the 1930's, my mother saw the average guy trying
> to pick bottoms, in 1930, 1931, 1932 ......1939, all lost.

> Market didn't show a gain until 1954.

Thats a lie.

> The only people who made out were people in cash.

Another pig ignorant lie.

> Real estate, stocks, bonds dropped 90% or more in value.

Another pig ignorant lie, particularly with real estate.

> Ten years from now if you have exactly what you have today, you will be the new rich.

Another pig ignorant lie, particularly if it turns out to be just a recession.

> The masses will be penniless, homeless and hungry.

Wrong, as always. We have decent welfare systems now, fool.

> It is the 1930's all over again.

Wrong, as always. The detail is completely different even if it does turn out to be another great depression.

> Obama will be playing the modern day Herbert Hoover, raise taxes on the rich and business and socialism.

So stupid that it cant even manage to work out that it was FDR that did the socialism.

== 2 of 13 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 3 2008 12:48 pm
From: EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com

In misc.survivalism phil scott <phil@philscott.net> wrote:

> not a valid comparison.. many things different... totally bogus
> currency now for instance, and vast bloat in
> govt now relative to then.

Given those factors, how will a massive cutback in goverment spending spur
GDP?

> the cuts now would be govt 70% to balance the budget.

How will a 70% cut in Federal expenditure spur GDP?

> govt bloat has killed the US...govt produces nothing, it runs taxes up
> on producers, who then become non compeitive in world markets.

Balancing the budget could include tax increases. How would that help?

--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel

== 3 of 13 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 3 2008 12:50 pm
From: EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com

In misc.survivalism phil scott <phil@philscott.net> wrote:

> thats accurate... we are a the front end of an inevitable nasty
> depression...and the cure IS to cut govt by at least 70% (which would
> balance the budget)

How would cutting hundreds of thousands of jobs and slashing procurement
boost GDP?

--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel

== 4 of 13 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 3 2008 12:51 pm
From: EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com

In misc.survivalism phil scott <phil@philscott.net> wrote:

> a crucial difference between then and now Ted, is that cash was backed
> by gold and silver then...
> today the cash is pure hot air, backed by zip...and 8 trillion more of
> it issued in the last month.

So how will cuting federal spending boost GDP?

--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel

== 5 of 13 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 3 2008 2:03 pm
From: "Dave"

<EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com> wrote in message
news:gh6rg6$oqh$3@reader1.panix.com...
> In misc.survivalism phil scott <phil@philscott.net> wrote:
>
> > a crucial difference between then and now Ted, is that cash was backed
> > by gold and silver then...
> > today the cash is pure hot air, backed by zip...and 8 trillion more of
> > it issued in the last month.
>
> So how will cuting federal spending boost GDP?
>

It won't, unless there is corresponding tax cuts. -Dave

== 6 of 13 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 3 2008 2:05 pm
From: "Dave"

<EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com> wrote in message
news:gh6re7$oqh$2@reader1.panix.com...
> In misc.survivalism phil scott <phil@philscott.net> wrote:
>
> > thats accurate... we are a the front end of an inevitable nasty
> > depression...and the cure IS to cut govt by at least 70% (which would
> > balance the budget)
>
> How would cutting hundreds of thousands of jobs and slashing procurement
> boost GDP?
>

It wouldn't, without corresponding tax cuts. But with corresponding tax
cuts, there will be more money available to private companies to use to grow
their businesses.

Or put another way...government, as an employer, is VERY inefficient. The
same money in non-government business use will create more jobs. -Dave

== 7 of 13 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 3 2008 2:06 pm
From: "Dave"

not a valid comparison.. many things different... totally bogus
currency now for instance, and vast bloat in
govt now relative to then.

the cuts now would be govt 70% to balance the budget.

govt bloat has killed the US...govt produces nothing, it runs taxes up
on producers, who then become non compeitive in world markets.

Phil scott

YES!!! Someone gets it. -Dave

== 8 of 13 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 3 2008 2:15 pm
From: "Dave"

<EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com> wrote in message
news:gh6rbf$oqh$1@reader1.panix.com...
> In misc.survivalism phil scott <phil@philscott.net> wrote:
>
> > not a valid comparison.. many things different... totally bogus
> > currency now for instance, and vast bloat in
> > govt now relative to then.
>
> Given those factors, how will a massive cutback in goverment spending spur
> GDP?

It won't, without corresponding tax cuts.

>
>
> > the cuts now would be govt 70% to balance the budget.
>
> How will a 70% cut in Federal expenditure spur GDP?

If you have corresponding tax cuts, money will be available to private
companies to grow their businesses, which will spur GDP. -Dave

>
> > govt bloat has killed the US...govt produces nothing, it runs taxes up
> > on producers, who then become non compeitive in world markets.
>
> Balancing the budget could include tax increases. How would that help?

I could balance the U.S. budget easily, with drastic tax CUTS. You need to
look back to Henry Ford in the days of the assemby line just getting
started. Ford is in trouble now, but back in the day, Ford was VERY
competitive, as Ford had a volume advantage. That is, make the cars
cheaper, sell more of them, and earn record profits doing so. The same
strategy works for the U.S. government. If you CUT taxes, GDP will rise.
When GDP rises, tax income increases also, even though the tax rate (by
percentage) is lower.

Obama's strategy to rebuild infrastructure will help a little in the short
term and hurt a lot in the long term. If you want to spur the economy to
get it out of this depression and KEEP it out of this depression, you
drastically cut all government programs and lower taxes. If you do that
(and this is counter-intuitive to some) tax revenue to the U.S. government
will actually INCREASE over time.

The goal is to make the U.S. business friendly with low operating costs
(most specifically including low taxes). If you can do that, the economy
makes positive gains and tax revenue increases dramatically. -Dave

== 9 of 13 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 3 2008 2:18 pm
From: clams_casino

phil scott wrote:

>
>govt bloat has killed the US...govt produces nothing, it runs taxes up
>on producers, who then become non compeitive in world markets.
>
>
>Phil scott
>
>

Most who hate paying income taxes tend to be in favor of GW's war.

Considering about half the federal budget goes to the military, do you
believe the military "produces nothing"?

== 10 of 13 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 3 2008 2:31 pm
From: "Dave"

"clams_casino" <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
news:WxAZk.9648$yB5.6244@newsfe21.iad...
> Dave wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >I would tell him to balance the budget, no matter what it takes. And to
> >decrease taxes by at least 50% per year, over the next few years.
> >
> >
> >
>
> The current federal expenditures are about $2.7T of which about half
> goes to pay current and past (pensions, medical, etc) military.
>
> Are you suggesting the government simply print $1.35T more dollars each
> year? Borrow another $1.35T each year from China? Do away with the
> entire military?
>
> Or cut all federal programs (military, social security, road
> construction, education, etc) by 50%?

Ummmmm.... YES!

Consider for a moment, there is no GOOD way out of the mess we are in. No
matter what we do, if we want the economy to turn around, it's going to
HURT. So what is the best long-term strategy to keep the country viable and
stop the bleeding as quick as possible?

Government (all programs) need to be cut DRAMATICALLY. Taxes (all taxes)
need to be cut DRAMATICALLY. Failure to do this will keep the country in
depression, indefinitely.

The simplest thing we could do which would go a LONG WAY toward balancing
the budget is to immediately STOP acting like the world police force. If
two countries want to destroy each other, LET THEM. Keep our military on
U.S. soil. Keep them strong, but keep them HOME. Be strong enough that
nobody even thinks about fucking with us, but we need to keep our troops OUT
of foreign countries.

Just look at the money we've thrown at Iraq. If we'd have minded our own
business, that money would have paid for the current and PROPOSED "bailout"
measures, a thousand times over!!!! And still have plenty left over to
shore up Social Security, STRENGTHEN the military, rebuild all the roads,
improve public education, etc.

But the fact is, we can not afford business as usual. We have to make
drastic cuts. We only have about 138,000,000 taxpayers. We can't afford to
spend trillions of dollars a year. Realistically, we need a national yearly
budget of about 1/4 Trillion dollars or less. For a country with about 300
million people, that means we can't afford much government, we need a really
REALLY small government. -Dave

== 11 of 13 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 3 2008 2:32 pm
From: Dan

Dave wrote:
> <EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com> wrote in message
> news:gh6re7$oqh$2@reader1.panix.com...
>> In misc.survivalism phil scott <phil@philscott.net> wrote:
>>
>>> thats accurate... we are a the front end of an inevitable nasty
>>> depression...and the cure IS to cut govt by at least 70% (which would
>>> balance the budget)
>> How would cutting hundreds of thousands of jobs and slashing procurement
>> boost GDP?
>>
>
> It wouldn't, without corresponding tax cuts. But with corresponding tax
> cuts, there will be more money available to private companies to use to grow
> their businesses.
>
> Or put another way...government, as an employer, is VERY inefficient. The
> same money in non-government business use will create more jobs. -Dave

Ah, yes, the George Bush economic growth plan on steroids. History has
been ever so kind to that one...

Didn't anyone ever talk to you about "stop digging?"

Dan

== 12 of 13 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 3 2008 2:33 pm
From: Dan

phil scott wrote:
> On Dec 3, 9:50 am, EskWI...@spamblock.panix.com wrote:
>> In misc.survivalism Dave <now...@noway2.not> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>> what would you suggest to Obama?
>>> I would tell him to balance the budget, no matter what it takes.
>> That was Hoover's strategy.
>>
>> --
>> The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
>> certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
>> -- Bertrand Russel
>
> not a valid comparison.. many things different... totally bogus
> currency now for instance, and vast bloat in
> govt now relative to then.
>
> the cuts now would be govt 70% to balance the budget.
>
> govt bloat has killed the US...govt produces nothing, it runs taxes up
> on producers, who then become non compeitive in world markets.
>
>
> Phil scott

Interesting opinion, but nothing more.

Dan

== 13 of 13 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 3 2008 2:37 pm
From: Dan

Dave wrote:

> If you CUT taxes, GDP will rise.
> When GDP rises, tax income increases also, even though the tax rate (by
> percentage) is lower.

Ah, yes, Voodoo economics. THAT works well... [NOT]

> Obama's strategy to rebuild infrastructure will help a little in the short
> term and hurt a lot in the long term.

actually, it will help enormously in the long run.

> If you want to spur the economy to
> get it out of this depression and KEEP it out of this depression, you
> drastically cut all government programs and lower taxes.

Any EVIDENCE that might work?

> If you do that
> (and this is counter-intuitive to some) tax revenue to the U.S. government
> will actually INCREASE over time.

Any EVIDENCE that might happen (and PLEASE do not embarrass yourself by
citing "the Reagan years.")?

> The goal is to make the U.S. business friendly with low operating costs
> (most specifically including low taxes). If you can do that, the economy
> makes positive gains and tax revenue increases dramatically. -Dave

Faith-based economics. No thanks.

Dan

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Boston Herald: "Your tips for smart savings"
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/43ba905d7f8f6ef2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 3 2008 12:26 pm
From: lenona321@yahoo.com

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1135695

Some are good, and some are like this one:

"Trick yourself into thinking you have more money by switching to a
smaller wallet. This is especially helpful if you only carry $1 bills
(which is probably all you have anyway), and makes your billfold feel
fuller."

Lenona.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Firewood prices
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3484c3a01685a9fe?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 3 2008 1:27 pm
From: MSfortune@mcpmail.com

On Dec 2, 11:27 am, SQ <onestatus...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I am finding out that firewood prices at over $220/cord as seems to be
> the case in most large metro areas, it's not cost-effective vs.
> electric heat.

Some counties grant permits to take away felled trees. Mine no longer
does because of the emerald ash borer. I just saw a man with a fully
loaded van on a cut-out road. Guess he didn't get the memo. He could
get the ticket.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal Kitchen Tip
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b377d4bf277b66f7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 3 2008 1:29 pm
From: Evelyn Leeper

Go to the dollar store and buy however many iced tea spoons one can get
for a dollar these days. The long handles and small tips are perfect
for getting the last bits out of jars and cans, particularly tall ones.

For that matter, when you are using a can of, say, tomato sauce, and you
are also adding water to what you're cooking, put the water in the can
and swish it around to get all the sauce out.

You may not save lots of money, but you will get better value for your
money.

--
Evelyn C. Leeper
Be braver. You cannot cross a chasm in two small jumps.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: supreme court to determine obama presidential eligibilty
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/546a49e0512f561c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 3 2008 1:43 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

it's all over the blogs.

http://dailykenoshan.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=63&topic=53329.msg57474;topicseen

http://origin.www.supremecourtus.gov/docket/08-570.htm

overnight fedex supreme court w/ your concerns; only way to reach them:

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=82449

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=supreme+court+obama+eligibility&aq=1&oq=supreme+court+obama+eli

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 3 2008 2:14 pm
From: max

In article <y4DZk.2657$us6.1370@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>,
"AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:

> it's all over the blogs.
>
> http://dailykenoshan.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=63&topic=53329.msg574
> 74;topicseen
>
> http://origin.www.supremecourtus.gov/docket/08-570.htm
>
> overnight fedex supreme court w/ your concerns; only way to reach them:
>
> http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=82449
>
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=supreme+court+obama+eligibility&aq=1&oq=s
> upreme+court+obama+eli

dipshit.

--
This signature can be appended to your outgoing mesages. Many people include in
their signatures contact information, and perhaps a joke or quotation.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 3 2008 2:36 pm
From: "Dave"

"max" <betatron@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:betatron-D48844.16144403122008@news.ftupet.com...
> In article <y4DZk.2657$us6.1370@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>,
> "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > it's all over the blogs.
> >
> >
http://dailykenoshan.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=63&topic=53329.msg5
74
> > 74;topicseen
> >
> > http://origin.www.supremecourtus.gov/docket/08-570.htm
> >
> > overnight fedex supreme court w/ your concerns; only way to reach them:
> >
> > http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=82449
> >
> >
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=supreme+court+obama+eligibility&aq=1&oq
=s
> > upreme+court+obama+eli
>
> dipshit.
>

What? This is a real court case that the supremes are going to have to rule
on. I for one am interested in what the supremes have to say on the
atter. -Dave

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Next Bank Heist: DEBIT CARDS
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/535b1a94bef90ab2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 3 2008 1:57 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"W.B. Yeats" <slipuvalad@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5911c054-0686-413f-9710-b98a82ee5e16@j35g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
> "Will debit cards outstrip credit?"
>
>
> "People still pull out the plastic, but often they're not charging
> anything. That leaves banks scrambling to make up the revenue they've
> lost from their more-profitable credit cards."
>
> By BusinessWeek

what's coming is a fee that both the merchant and debit card user will have
to pay. after cash is illegal, of course.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Free Shipping From now until Sunday the 7th on Order's over $75.00!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/ad61983c52d207b6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 3 2008 2:18 pm
From: girlsjustwanttoshop

Speaking of Frugal Living - Come on down to www.girlsjustwanttoshop.com
and find unique affordable gifts for friends and family. And when is
the best time to buy all of these wonderful fun gifts, during the sale
season....

Think of all of the money you will save from the free shipping!

Season's Greetings!

Girls Just Want to Shop

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Wednesday, December 3, 2008

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 26 new messages in 11 topics - digest

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