Frugal Living: misc.consumers.frugal-living - 19 new messages in 11 topics

Wednesday, January 28, 2009

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 19 new messages in 11 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Have you ever ate roadkill?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/8270986512a793d6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 27 2009 1:01 pm
From: "www.Queensbridge.us"

On Jan 26, 7:19 pm, James <j0069b...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I have. After the buck ran into my new compact car and did over $1700
> damage, you bet your deer he ended up in my freezer.

Maybe in a restaurant without being told what it was.

--
Get cell phone service for a little as $5.00 a month. Go to
www.virginmobileusa.com Check out Virgin Mobile phones and plans. Buy
one of their phones and activate it. Enter Kickbacks Code number:
yQqUHOsQ to get 60 minutes of bonus airtime after you add money to
your account

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 27 2009 9:08 pm
From: The Real Bev

KevinS wrote:

> On Jan 26, 9:03�pm, spop...@speedymail.org (Steve Pope) wrote:
>
>> Sounds like a holdover from English law concerning
>> poachers.
>
> Maybe so, although intentionally driving one's car into
> good sized deers would have to be one of the dumber
> pastimes.

What if you mounted a sort of spear in front?

--
Cheers, Bev
=============================================================
"On the other hand, I live in California so I'd be willing to
squeeze schoolchildren to death if I thought some oil would
come out." -- Scott Adams

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Boost Mobile: May have to try it
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/349d16161b538880?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 27 2009 1:06 pm
From: "www.Queensbridge.us"

On Jan 26, 7:06 pm, Gordon <go...@alltomyself.com> wrote:
> m...@privacy.net wrote innews:oq4sn4ttk8ta30n4i0hng0g5vklac3rl8e@4ax.com:
>
> >http://clarkhoward.com/liveweb/shownotes/2009/01/15/14921
>
> Intresting.
> Now, does that run on the old Nextel system, or the Sprint CDMA
> system? If the latter, I may convert my Sprint phone over to
> Boost and save a few bucks a month.
> Note that these plans are good for talkaholics. If you don't
> use the phone too much, there are better pay by the minute
> plans that can save you even more.

Wife and I use Virgin.
If you set-up automatic billing via
PayPal
Credit Card or
Bank debit
after your initial top-up payment, you can set as low as $15.00 every
90 days or $5.00 a month. Go to www.virginmobileusa.com Check out
Virgin Mobile phones and plans. Buy one of their phones and activate
it. Enter Kickbacks Code number: yQqUHOsQ to get 60 minutes of bonus
airtime after you add money to your account

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 27 2009 1:12 pm
From: Brian Elfert

me@privacy.net writes:

>Brian Elfert <belfert@visi.com> wrote:

>>Boost has a new $50 unlimited plan, but the review I saw said it is awful
>>and the reviewer's wife went back to another phone before the 30 day
>>review period was up. The main complaint was dropped calls.

>have a link to this review?

Sorry, but try as I might I can't find where I saw this review.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 27 2009 6:43 pm
From: Mr Bungle 34

A boost prepaid is my only phone. I ararely need to use a phone. At
anyrate, I spend less than 10 bucks a month on it...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Is it worth upgrading heat & insulation in Mid-Atlantic states?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/16c00bae970d5c93?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 27 2009 1:14 pm
From: timebomb.11.paulkersey@xoxy.net

James wrote:
> My furnace is probably under 60% efficiency but it don't really get
> that cold here. Any one have first hand experience in savings after
> replacing an old furnace with a high-efficieny furnace?
>
> Also what did you save if you bought expensive replacement windows?
>
> I've more than double the insulation in the attic but can't really
> tell how much I'm saving because of varying temperatures and fuel
> costs. It had about 4" of rock wool.

Start with what you spend on heating now. If you go from a 60% furnace
to 90%, you would save about 1/3 of that bill.
Insulation generally pays for itself in most climates in terms of
heating and cooling cost and comfort. Insulation is cheap. If it's
your labor, that's pretty cheap if you have the time.
Expensive replacement windows are not as important as figuring out
where your heat is going. That can be done at reasonable cost with
thermal imaging. They go around your home with an infared cam and the
heat loss can be seen.

Don't spend money unless you can see the payback in under seven years
or so.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 27 2009 9:49 pm
From: Jeff

timebomb.11.paulkersey@xoxy.net wrote:
> James wrote:
>> My furnace is probably under 60% efficiency but it don't really get
>> that cold here. Any one have first hand experience in savings after
>> replacing an old furnace with a high-efficieny furnace?
>>
>> Also what did you save if you bought expensive replacement windows?
>>
>> I've more than double the insulation in the attic but can't really
>> tell how much I'm saving because of varying temperatures and fuel
>> costs. It had about 4" of rock wool.
>
> Start with what you spend on heating now. If you go from a 60% furnace
> to 90%, you would save about 1/3 of that bill.
> Insulation generally pays for itself in most climates in terms of
> heating and cooling cost and comfort. Insulation is cheap. If it's
> your labor, that's pretty cheap if you have the time.
> Expensive replacement windows are not as important as figuring out
> where your heat is going.

That is it, exactly.

Heat escapes everywhere, including the floor and walls. Drafts are
the worst.

You can get an idea with an inexpensive IR thermometer and reading
interior surface temps. Since you have rockwool in the attic, I wonder
what insulation you have in the walls.
Tossing more insulation in an attic is of little benefit if most of
your heat is lost elsewhere.

I'm a huge believer in blown in cellulose insulation, it's very cheap
and easy to install. I did my walls a couple years ago and have followed
up with underfloor insulation. The difference in comfort is dramatic.

As far as windows, either exterior storms, or something on the inside
is fairly cheap. Or if the view is unimportant, either bubblewrap them
or some kind of movable insulation, even heavy drapes. Weatherize first
to eliminate leaks.

Jeff

That can be done at reasonable cost with
> thermal imaging. They go around your home with an infared cam and the
> heat loss can be seen.
>
> Don't spend money unless you can see the payback in under seven years
> or so.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Computer crash
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/8bc95c99ebdef045?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 27 2009 2:40 pm
From: Dave Garland

westom1@gmail.com wrote:

> Any properly constructed computer must work just fine in a 100
> degree F room with dust balls inside. If the computer then works
> after removing dust bunnies or after cooling the room, then defective
> hardware still exists and will be getting worse. Heat is how to find
> failures. Those who never learned hardware want to fix the symptom
> (heat) rather than find the failure. Worse, they want to fix things
> without first learning what is wrong.

Very few computers are rated for operation at 100F. Just to pick one
at random, the Dell OptiPlex 360 specs call for operating temp to be
50-95F. Typical hard drives have a max of 122F, but that's internal
temp and the drive will typically be 20-30F higher than ambient (one
of my computers in a room that's 54F reports a HD temp of 78.8F).

Heat causes failures. Dust causes failures (because it traps heat,
and because it can kill fan bearings and clog heatsinks and vents). I
have seen name-brand computers that were designed in such a way that
the hard drives gradually cooked, and failed, even without dust.

> Notice no wasting time with "it could be this or could be that".
> First determine what is good - without doubt - or what is bad.
> Answers must be definitive.

That is good. But most people do not have the knowledge base, or the
tools, to do that.

> First establish hardware integrity. Only then move on to other parts
> of the problem – software.

Actually, with Windows, a lot of the time it is indeed software.

Dave

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 27 2009 5:01 pm
From: westom1@gmail.com

On Jan 27, 5:40 pm, Dave Garland <dave.garl...@wizinfo.com> wrote:
> Very few computers are rated for operation at 100F. Just to pick one
> at random, the Dell OptiPlex 360 specs call for operating temp to be
> 50-95F. ...
> Heat causes failures. Dust causes failures (because it traps heat,
> and because it can kill fan bearings and clog heatsinks and vents).

A newbie technician will only repair what is seen rather than what
really exists. With experience, one knows the computer that works
just fine in 100+ degrees F is also derated in system specs to 95.
Engineers, especially from responsible companies routinely degrade
these numbers. Meanwhile digital hardware even at 160 degrees F is
not damaged. But timing or voltage threshold changes might create a
"not-destructive" crash.

To harm hardware, temperature must be hundreds of degrees. So hot as
leave skin when touched. To find defective hardware, we routinely
heat that hardware to 'pigs happy' temperatures of 100 degrees F. Such
trivial temperatures do not cause the damage promoted in urban myths.
Those who actually learned this stuff would know the old rule from
back when semiconductors were more easily damaged: if it does not
leave skin, then it is not too hot.

All properly constructed PC must work just fine at 100 degrees F.
But many only know from observation (also called junk science) never
learn these numbers and the technology.

Popular among A+ Certified Computer techs (who don't even know how
electricity works) are fears base only in these urban myth and
solutions such as shotgunning. Those myths are some of the first
things we teach a newbie tech to ignore. A trained tech first learns
the numbers. Datasheets even bluntly state why 100 degrees F is well
below any hardware destructive temperature. Untrained techs even
confuse timing changes with hardware damage. Defective hardware fails
(timing changes) more often at 100 degrees. Heat is the diagnostic
tool to find defective hardware. An untrained computer tech would
instead blame the only thing he understands - dust balls.

Many computer techs are so uneducated as to assume (from popular
myths) that executing a program overnight is burn-in testing. Burn-in
testing is executing diagnostics at temperatures above 100 degrees,
then lowering those temperatures to near freezing. Test again, then
raise temperatures back above 100 degree F and test again. Those mild
(ideal)temperature cycles are burn-in testing for consumer hardware.
Industrial hardware testing is even more extreme temperatures.
Meanwhile, an uneducated tech fears heat created by dust balls because
he does not even know what burn-in testing is.

Were you designing and building computer hardware even 40 years ago
when we were also training our techs? Untrained techs often would
cure heat (only what they understand) rather than find the defect.
Dave's education begins when he lists the temperature number for
timing changes AND another higher number for actual chip damage. It's
not too hot until you touch it and leave skin. But then only one of
us also did thermal equations to design computers.

100 degrees F is a diagnostic tool to find the already defective
hardware. A hairdryer on highest heat setting is one tool to find
defective semiconductors. Many A+ Certified Computer techs don't even
know a computer may work even when the power supply is defective which
is why they shotgun. Another thing we teach newbie techs. How to
find a defective supply? Again, first learn numbers to have
definitive answers. Heat is a tool to find defective hardware. Curing
symptoms is fixing a computer by removing dust balls.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What to do when laptop keys stop working?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d6266bc229b8004b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 27 2009 6:47 pm
From: The Real Bev

Seerialmom wrote:

> On Jan 25, 9:48 pm, The Real Bev <bashley...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Rod Speed wrote:
>> > Fix them or if that isnt feasible, replace the keyboard.
>>
>> > OhioGuy wrote:
>>
>> >> We have a Dell laptop that has several of the keys slowly becoming harder
>> >> and harder to get them to register anything. It is really becoming a
>> >> distraction. Eventually, I feel the keys will stop working entirely.
>>
>> > Some you can pop the keycap on and clean whats underneath, some you cant.
>>
>> My IBM Model M will be 21 in a month. I took the caps off, cleaned them, and
>> removed 21 years of cruft from underneath. Yeah, I realize I could have got
>> that out by removing the top and vacuuming, but it was kind of satisfying doing
>> it by hand. Besides, cablemodem service was down for half the weekend.
>>
>> Laptop/notebook keyboards are hellspawn, as are touchpads. Fortunately I
>> discovered how to disable the touchpad on the Acer.
>>
>> > Dunno about Dell keyboards specifically. Dell should be able to tell you if
>> > you call them.
>>
>> >> I was wondering if anyone ese had ever dealt with this sort of issue, and
>> >> what options there are to fix the problem? For instance, does anyone sell
>> >> replacement keyboards for them?
>>
>> > Yes, Dell does and there are some on ebay too for all the common laptops.
>>
>> >> I'm hoping that this isn't some sort of issue where I have to decide
>> >> between spending $250 to repair the laptop or buying a new one.
>>
>> I've heard that laptops are the only thing you should ever buy an extended
>> warranty on because they ALL destroy some part of themselves that costs more
>> than the warranty within the extended warranty period.
>>
>> > A replacement keyboard shouldnt cost that.
>>
>> Those flexible roll-up keyboards are intriguing and seem like they'd be really
>> easy to stuff into the notebook bag. Anybody used one? I've only seen pictures.

> IBM had laptops 21 years ago???? Was it about 50 pounds?

You could get an Otrona then -- under 20 pounds, 2 floppy drives, 5" screen,
cute as hell. Way overpriced JPL status symbol, and when management stopped
buying them the company folded.

IBM didn't make laptops then, just desktops with the world's finest keyboard,
which is why mine is worth preserving. Using one with a laptop gives you the
best of both worlds.

--
Cheers,
Bev
---------------------------------
aibohphobia - fear of palindromes

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 27 2009 8:40 pm
From: OhioGuy

> As for the laptop in question, was anything spilled in it, like coffee or
> similar? -Dave

No, nothing, it was just used daily.

Someone suggested I pry up one side of the key and try cleaning it.
I had no idea the edges of the keys on the keyboard could tilt up like
that, so I just blew hard under the key. Guess what? Now the key works
just fine.

Looks like I'll have an extra keyboard for $22 shipped, to use when
and if this one finally does give up.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Source (online?) for whole wheat flour
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/45b947567a2220f7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 27 2009 7:52 pm
From: Dan Musicant (man@privacy.net)

On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 07:18:57 -0500, "Kswck" <kswck@optonline.net> wrote:

:
:<dmusicant@pacbell.net> wrote in message
:news:a5csn4lbnigrjs243s0gmu637d311fa20f@4ax.com...
:>I was reading reviews of bread machines at Amazon.com and someone said
:> they bought 25 lb. bags of organic whole wheat flour for ~ $0.50/lb.
:> net. The post was in 2006. I don't recall the name of the company, but
:> going to their website I see that the cheapest organic whole wheat flour
:> there now is ~$0.80/lb for 25 lb. and that's before shipping.
:>
:> I live in Berkeley CA and am looking for an economical source of whole
:> wheat flour. I've been getting mine at the Berkeley Bowl, but the
:> cheapest they have is $1.39/lb. What are some good sources?
:>
:> Dan
:>
:> PS I've been getting bread flour at Costco in 50 lb. bags, but I don't
:> believe they sell whole wheat, at least economically.
:
:Maybe you can make a deal with the local bakery?
:
That may be the best idea. The online sources I've managed to find have
a hefty shipping fee. For instance, I found a 25 lb bag of whole wheat
flour for 12 dollars and change, but the shipping brought the 50
cents/lb up to $1.36/lb. I can buy organic whole wheat flour at my local
market for $1.39/lb (as stated above), and any quantity I want, so it's
not worth it for me to buy online unless I can find a much better deal.
I figure I'll have to avoid shipping to get good deals. I know there
must be many local people who bake in their kitches regularly and some
of them have certainly looked into this. I just don't know right now how
to meet these people.

Dan

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 27 2009 8:10 pm
From: gheston@hiwaay.net (Gary Heston)

In article <ddlvn4d7jp46g5k3iv4qicrvud8t6r9400@4ax.com>,
man@privacy.net <Dan Musicant> wrote:
[ ... ]
>That may be the best idea. The online sources I've managed to find have
>a hefty shipping fee. For instance, I found a 25 lb bag of whole wheat
>flour for 12 dollars and change, but the shipping brought the 50
>cents/lb up to $1.36/lb. I can buy organic whole wheat flour at my local
>market for $1.39/lb (as stated above), and any quantity I want, so it's
>not worth it for me to buy online unless I can find a much better deal.
>I figure I'll have to avoid shipping to get good deals. I know there
>must be many local people who bake in their kitches regularly and some
>of them have certainly looked into this. I just don't know right now how
>to meet these people.

Have you tried calling wholesale grocery distributors?

Ask your local Subways where they get whole-wheat flour?

Ask bakeries where they get their supplies? (Might help if you're buying
something, like a few dozen donuts.)

Gary

--
Gary Heston gheston@hiwaay.net http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

"Behind every successful woman there is an astonished man"
General of the Army (four stars) Ann Dunwoody

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Nazi t-shirt sold at Walmart
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b367e5bdf9d178bd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 27 2009 8:36 pm
From: "Daniel T."

The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:

> ... last I heard we were allowed to express unpopular opinions,
> which include hate and intolerance. We're also allowed to be
> stupid, which is kind of unfortunate.
>
> Walmart is allowed to sell or not sell the t-shirts at their
> discretion.

What makes you do you think that? The first amendment grants us freedom
of speech, petition and assembly. It doesn't grant us the freedom to buy
or sell whatever we want.

http://www.usconstitution.net/constnot.html#exp

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 27 2009 10:30 pm
From: The Real Bev

Daniel T. wrote:

> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> ... last I heard we were allowed to express unpopular opinions,
>> which include hate and intolerance. We're also allowed to be
>> stupid, which is kind of unfortunate.
>>
>> Walmart is allowed to sell or not sell the t-shirts at their
>> discretion.
>
> What makes you do you think that? The first amendment grants us freedom
> of speech, petition and assembly. It doesn't grant us the freedom to buy
> or sell whatever we want.

I don't think the constitution says anything about t-shirts. If you can prove
to a judge and/or jury that a t-shirt is somehow dangerous to the general
population and must be prohibited, file your lawsuit or make a citizen's arrest.
Do you expect someone else to do your job for you?

Repeat: Walmart can sell whatever it wants provided it's not prohibited by law.
You got a law to show me that makes Nazi t-shirts illegal?

> http://www.usconstitution.net/constnot.html#exp

--
Cheers, Bev
--------------------------------------------
The stone age didn't end for lack of stones.
-- Troy the Troll

==============================================================================
TOPIC: US to default on foreign loans?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c4ae4627a85105d6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 27 2009 8:47 pm
From: josejarvie@ssnet.net

Some leading economists this that the US will default on it's foreign loans
perhaps as early as this summer. If that happens the value of the dollar will
fall spectacularly.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Composter
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/24a04d452c00fd25?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 27 2009 8:11 pm
From: Coffee's For Closers

In article <0fd19f17-54c9-4953-82f6-
01cd90c8de37@r15g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, artsy6@gmail.com
says...
> Do you have a favorite?

It isn't rocket science, and there isn't any kind of magical
device so much better than anything else.

I just use very basic plastic compost bins. Open to the ground
on the bottom, and with a lid on the top. About a metre tall, I
guess. Slots all around, for air circulation.

They are the kind that have a sliding door, at the bottom, to
theoretically dig out the oldest compost. But I find that that
is too awkward. So I just let it all age, and dig out from the
top.

An important point is to have two bins. Fill one, and leave it
to age, while then filling the other. When the second bin is
also full, the first bin will be finished and ready to use.

--
Get Credit Where Credit Is Due
http://www.cardreport.com/
Credit Tools, Reference, and Forum

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cheap land line phone service in L.A.?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d9dfbe70f7083661?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 27 2009 9:43 pm
From: The Real Bev

AT&T is raising its price, probably along with everybody else. Almost all our
phone calls are local and the 99-Cent-Store 99-minute LD cards generally expire
with very few minutes used. Monthly rate will probably be $21 or so. As far as
I can tell, the only land-line providers in the L.A. area are AT&T and Verizon,
whose rates are higher than AT&T. Any locals have a better deal?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ## Rabbi caught on tape with 17 stripper hidden video
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/6c916b5c87020d66?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jan 27 2009 11:47 pm
From: somebody.paytheman@gmail.com

Right here http://rabbishare.blogspot.com/2009/01/rcmp-obstructed-paramedics-firefighter.html
- Hidden video of Rabbi having sex with 17 year old stripper from
conneticut

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Wednesday, January 28, 2009

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 19 new messages in 11 topics - digest

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