Frugal Living: misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 8 topics

Friday, February 13, 2009

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 8 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: DTV converters
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/e46bdc878c0fe848?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 12 2009 9:54 pm
From: "John A. Weeks III"

In article <Xns9BB0DB7544EC7greederxprtnet@85.214.105.209>,
Gordon <gonzo@alltomyself.com> wrote:

> OK, I see what you mean. Both a converter and a tuner
> can tune in DTV broadcasts. But this thing called a
> tuner has more and better outputs.

A few years back, a lot of "HD Ready" TVs were sold. They
had HD quality video displays, but only had SD tuners. Adding
a converter allows them to see DTV, but not HDTV. Adding a
true ATSC tuner will give them an HD picture, and allow them
to have surround sound if they have a 5.1 sound system.

-john-

--
======================================================================
John A. Weeks III 612-720-2854 john@johnweeks.com
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
======================================================================

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Gas Prices, been creeping up for awhile. WHY?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/fdaf8e0c99a08219?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 1:26 am
From: "catalpa"

"Bay Area Holdout" <Linear54@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c94ll.12872$D32.362@flpi146.ffdc.sbc.com...
> From all I read oil is still bouncing off all time lows not seen in years,
> yet where I live(South SF Bay Area) gas prices hit a low of $1.69 a gallon
> in mid-December and are now at $2.22 a gallon tow month later.
>
> So what's up? This is close to a 25% rise in two months and while I know
> it's not the $4.49 a gallon we were dealing with during the summer, it's
> not $140 a barrel oil either.
> All I read is low demand for fuel and the refinery storage facilities have
> no room left, supply and demand says prices should still be well below $ a
> gallon, at least around here.
>
> Just wondering if others have seen similar increases where they live and
> if they have an idea what's going on.
>
> BAHO
>

The crack spread went negative last fall with wholesale gasoline price under
$0.80/ gallon and refiners were losing money on every barrel they refined.
The crack spread has since returned to a normal range with wholesale
gasoline price now about $1.26/ gallon.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 6:48 am
From: James

On Feb 13, 4:26 am, "catalpa" <cata...@entertab.org> wrote:
> "Bay Area Holdout" <Linea...@hotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:c94ll.12872$D32.362@flpi146.ffdc.sbc.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > From all I read oil is still bouncing off all time lows not seen in years,
> > yet where I live(South SF Bay Area) gas prices hit a low of $1.69 a gallon
> > in mid-December and are now at $2.22 a gallon tow month later.
>
> > So what's up? This is close to a 25% rise in two months and while I know
> > it's not the $4.49 a gallon we were dealing with during the summer, it's
> > not $140 a barrel oil either.
> > All I read is low demand for fuel and the refinery storage facilities have
> > no room left, supply and demand says prices should still be well below $ a
> > gallon, at least around here.
>
> > Just wondering if others have seen similar increases where they live and
> > if they have an idea what's going on.
>
> > BAHO
>
> The crack spread went negative last fall with wholesale gasoline price under
> $0.80/ gallon and refiners were losing money on every barrel they refined.
> The crack spread has since returned to a normal range with wholesale
> gasoline price now about $1.26/ gallon.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

People buying gas guslers after gas came down.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 9:27 am
From: Noveau67@aol.com

An article on Yahoo Finance said the refiners were REDUCING the
amount of gas they make in order to get the prices up. The oil
companies act together like a cartel.

I was amazed to see the price go down to $1.57, so no, they don't
have complete control of the price, but they sure do have cartel power
to control the supply.

Every time there is an investigation, the oil co's get off with a
slap on the wrist, or lighter.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: It's all falling apart, isn't it?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/aaee75672b67549f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 2:01 am
From: wismel@yahoo.com

On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 23:45:15 -0500, Test User <Test@NosSpam.net>
wrote:

>It's all falling apart, isn't it?
>I've been taking a look at the big picture again lately and forgive me
>if I speak the obvious but, it's all falling apart. America. It's
>falling apart.
>
>We have Ivy League Schools whose graduates are dumber than sand. Need
>proof? Look at the financial debacle. These Ivy League Bankers, Brokers
>and Money Managers were too friggin stupid to figure out they were
>running themselves into bankruptcy!
>
>Many of today's American businessmen who aren't outright stupid, are
>turning out to be sociopaths; brazenly robbing, defrauding and scamming
>anyone they can. Take the head of AIG for example; such a schemer that
>he wrecked his company by intentionally doing business in such a way as
>to make bigger bonuses for himself. Same thing with the top guys in
>Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
>
>These guys ran their companies right into Bankruptcy just to enrich
>themselves.
>
>American public school kids are graduating high schools and even
>colleges so dumb that most of them cannot find their own home states on
>an unlabeled map! A whole slew of them can't do basic calculus and their
>ability to spell or think critically is virtually non-existent.
>
>We have a government that is spending so much money there isn't enough
>on the entire planet to lend to them, so they have to print their own
>just to keep pace. That can't last much longer.
>
>We have millions of diseased, uneducated illegal aliens in the country
>who have brought with them their filthy, third-world cultures. These
>pieces of human filth have caused resurgence in diseases like polio,
>long cured from this land!
>
>We treat homosexuals like they're some sort of gift instead of a plague;
>and in some places, the boards of education are unleashing these
>sodomites on young school children to "teach them" about the so-called
>"alternative lifestyle."
>
>If you dare speak out about this stuff, you're smeared as a 'hater" or
>racist, bigot, homophobe or some other such thing.
>
>Things are so bad on so many levels that I no longer recognize my own
>country. Somethings gotta give. This cannot go on.

When the unemployment rate gets to 10% it should get America's
attention. Yes, America is in decline via dilution of it's european
population. (yes, means White!)

ted

sites to visit:

http://www.wvw.net/ Western Voices World News

http://www.newnation.org/ New Nation News

== 2 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 2:06 am
From: wismel@yahoo.com

On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 23:45:15 -0500, Test User <Test@NosSpam.net>
wrote:

Perhaps when the unemployment rate hits 10% we might get a rise
from the general public. It will take a radical rebuild of America
whose demographics are declining from a qualitative standpoint.
(90% White, 1970, 69% White, 2008)

ted

sites:

http://www.wvwnews.net/ Western Voices World News

http://www.vdare.com/ V-Dare

== 3 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 2:14 am
From: Igor The Terrible

On Feb 13, 5:01 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 23:45:15 -0500, Test User <T...@NosSpam.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >It's all falling apart, isn't it?
> >I've been taking a look at the big picture again lately and forgive me
> >if I speak the obvious but, it's all falling apart. America. It's
> >falling apart.
>
> >We have Ivy League Schools whose graduates are dumber than sand. Need
> >proof? Look at the financial debacle. These Ivy League Bankers, Brokers
> >and Money Managers were too friggin stupid to figure out they were
> >running themselves into bankruptcy!
>
> >Many of today's American businessmen who aren't outright stupid, are
> >turning out to be sociopaths; brazenly robbing, defrauding and scamming
> >anyone they can. Take the head of AIG for example; such a schemer that
> >he wrecked his company by intentionally doing business in such a way as
> >to make bigger bonuses for himself. Same thing with the top guys in
> >Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
>
> >These guys ran their companies right into Bankruptcy just to enrich
> >themselves.
>
> >American public school kids are graduating high schools and even
> >colleges so dumb that most of them cannot find their own home states on
> >an unlabeled map! A whole slew of them can't do basic calculus and their
> >ability to spell or think critically is virtually non-existent.
>
> >We have a government that is spending so much money there isn't enough
> >on the entire planet to lend to them, so they have to print their own
> >just to keep pace. That can't last much longer.
>
> >We have millions of diseased, uneducated illegal aliens in the country
> >who have brought with them their filthy, third-world cultures. These
> >pieces of human filth have caused resurgence in diseases like polio,
> >long cured from this land!
>
> >We treat homosexuals like they're some sort of gift instead of a plague;
> >and in some places, the boards of education are unleashing these
> >sodomites on young school children to "teach them" about the so-called
> >"alternative lifestyle."
>
> >If you dare speak out about this stuff, you're smeared as a 'hater" or
> >racist, bigot, homophobe or some other such thing.
>
> >Things are so bad on so many levels that I no longer recognize my own
> >country. Somethings gotta give. This cannot go on.
>
> When the unemployment rate gets to 10% it should get America's
> attention. Yes, America is in decline via dilution of it's european
> population. (yes, means White!)
>
> ted
>
> sites to visit:
>
> http://www.wvw.net/ Western Voices World News
>
> http://www.newnation.org/ New Nation News- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

So...........? Big deal. The rest of the world's human population
is still thriving.

== 4 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 3:11 am
From: GLOBALIST

On Feb 13, 4:14 am, Igor The Terrible
<igor_the_terri...@mad.scientist.com> wrote:
> On Feb 13, 5:01 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 23:45:15 -0500, Test User <T...@NosSpam.net>
> > wrote:
>
> > >It's all falling apart, isn't it?
> > >I've been taking a look at the big picture again lately and forgive me
> > >if I speak the obvious but, it's all falling apart. America. It's
> > >falling apart.
>
> > >We have Ivy League Schools whose graduates are dumber than sand. Need
> > >proof? Look at the financial debacle. These Ivy League Bankers, Brokers
> > >and Money Managers were too friggin stupid to figure out they were
> > >running themselves into bankruptcy!
>
> > >Many of today's American businessmen who aren't outright stupid, are
> > >turning out to be sociopaths; brazenly robbing, defrauding and scamming
> > >anyone they can. Take the head of AIG for example; such a schemer that
> > >he wrecked his company by intentionally doing business in such a way as
> > >to make bigger bonuses for himself. Same thing with the top guys in
> > >Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
>
> > >These guys ran their companies right into Bankruptcy just to enrich
> > >themselves.
>
> > >American public school kids are graduating high schools and even
> > >colleges so dumb that most of them cannot find their own home states on
> > >an unlabeled map! A whole slew of them can't do basic calculus and their
> > >ability to spell or think critically is virtually non-existent.
>
> > >We have a government that is spending so much money there isn't enough
> > >on the entire planet to lend to them, so they have to print their own
> > >just to keep pace. That can't last much longer.
>
> > >We have millions of diseased, uneducated illegal aliens in the country
> > >who have brought with them their filthy, third-world cultures. These
> > >pieces of human filth have caused resurgence in diseases like polio,
> > >long cured from this land!
>
> > >We treat homosexuals like they're some sort of gift instead of a plague;
> > >and in some places, the boards of education are unleashing these
> > >sodomites on young school children to "teach them" about the so-called
> > >"alternative lifestyle."
>
> > >If you dare speak out about this stuff, you're smeared as a 'hater" or
> > >racist, bigot, homophobe or some other such thing.
>
> > >Things are so bad on so many levels that I no longer recognize my own
> > >country. Somethings gotta give. This cannot go on.
>
> > When the unemployment rate gets to 10% it should get America's
> > attention. Yes, America is in decline via dilution of it's european
> > population. (yes, means White!)
>
> > ted
>
> > sites to visit:
>
> >http://www.wvw.net/ Western Voices World News
>
> >http://www.newnation.org/ New Nation News- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> So...........? Big deal. The rest of the world's human population
> is still thriving.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I agree.....this US supremacy bullshit was getting real old. I hope
to hell we will not be a super power anymore, since all it meant was
we can kill whoever we want for our greed.

== 5 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 4:42 am
From: Dan

on 2/13/09 4:01 AM wismel@yahoo.com said the following:
> On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 23:45:15 -0500, Test User <Test@NosSpam.net>
> wrote:
>
>> It's all falling apart, isn't it?
>> I've been taking a look at the big picture again lately and forgive me
>> if I speak the obvious but, it's all falling apart. America. It's
>> falling apart.
>>
>> We have Ivy League Schools whose graduates are dumber than sand. Need
>> proof? Look at the financial debacle. These Ivy League Bankers, Brokers
>> and Money Managers were too friggin stupid to figure out they were
>> running themselves into bankruptcy!
>>
>> Many of today's American businessmen who aren't outright stupid, are
>> turning out to be sociopaths; brazenly robbing, defrauding and scamming
>> anyone they can. Take the head of AIG for example; such a schemer that
>> he wrecked his company by intentionally doing business in such a way as
>> to make bigger bonuses for himself. Same thing with the top guys in
>> Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
>>
>> These guys ran their companies right into Bankruptcy just to enrich
>> themselves.
>>
>> American public school kids are graduating high schools and even
>> colleges so dumb that most of them cannot find their own home states on
>> an unlabeled map! A whole slew of them can't do basic calculus and their
>> ability to spell or think critically is virtually non-existent.
>>
>> We have a government that is spending so much money there isn't enough
>> on the entire planet to lend to them, so they have to print their own
>> just to keep pace. That can't last much longer.
>>
>> We have millions of diseased, uneducated illegal aliens in the country
>> who have brought with them their filthy, third-world cultures. These
>> pieces of human filth have caused resurgence in diseases like polio,
>> long cured from this land!
>>
>> We treat homosexuals like they're some sort of gift instead of a plague;
>> and in some places, the boards of education are unleashing these
>> sodomites on young school children to "teach them" about the so-called
>> "alternative lifestyle."
>>
>> If you dare speak out about this stuff, you're smeared as a 'hater" or
>> racist, bigot, homophobe or some other such thing.
>>
>> Things are so bad on so many levels that I no longer recognize my own
>> country. Somethings gotta give. This cannot go on.
>
> When the unemployment rate gets to 10% it should get America's
> attention. Yes, America is in decline via dilution of it's european
> population. (yes, means White!)
>
> ted
>
> sites to visit:
>
> http://www.wvw.net/ Western Voices World News
>
> http://www.newnation.org/ New Nation News

The "top->down flat-landers" don't understand that economic activity is
a non-linear system. Therefore, top->down policies can have devastating
effects. In a nut shell, cronyism fascists are pushing their reckless
behavior losses onto the naive taxpayer. As this continues to happen,
the private market will be starved of needed capital and the economy
will contract.

== 6 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 4:43 am
From: Dan

on 2/13/09 4:14 AM Igor The Terrible said the following:
> On Feb 13, 5:01 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 23:45:15 -0500, Test User <T...@NosSpam.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> It's all falling apart, isn't it?
>>> I've been taking a look at the big picture again lately and forgive me
>>> if I speak the obvious but, it's all falling apart. America. It's
>>> falling apart.
>>> We have Ivy League Schools whose graduates are dumber than sand. Need
>>> proof? Look at the financial debacle. These Ivy League Bankers, Brokers
>>> and Money Managers were too friggin stupid to figure out they were
>>> running themselves into bankruptcy!
>>> Many of today's American businessmen who aren't outright stupid, are
>>> turning out to be sociopaths; brazenly robbing, defrauding and scamming
>>> anyone they can. Take the head of AIG for example; such a schemer that
>>> he wrecked his company by intentionally doing business in such a way as
>>> to make bigger bonuses for himself. Same thing with the top guys in
>>> Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
>>> These guys ran their companies right into Bankruptcy just to enrich
>>> themselves.
>>> American public school kids are graduating high schools and even
>>> colleges so dumb that most of them cannot find their own home states on
>>> an unlabeled map! A whole slew of them can't do basic calculus and their
>>> ability to spell or think critically is virtually non-existent.
>>> We have a government that is spending so much money there isn't enough
>>> on the entire planet to lend to them, so they have to print their own
>>> just to keep pace. That can't last much longer.
>>> We have millions of diseased, uneducated illegal aliens in the country
>>> who have brought with them their filthy, third-world cultures. These
>>> pieces of human filth have caused resurgence in diseases like polio,
>>> long cured from this land!
>>> We treat homosexuals like they're some sort of gift instead of a plague;
>>> and in some places, the boards of education are unleashing these
>>> sodomites on young school children to "teach them" about the so-called
>>> "alternative lifestyle."
>>> If you dare speak out about this stuff, you're smeared as a 'hater" or
>>> racist, bigot, homophobe or some other such thing.
>>> Things are so bad on so many levels that I no longer recognize my own
>>> country. Somethings gotta give. This cannot go on.
>> When the unemployment rate gets to 10% it should get America's
>> attention. Yes, America is in decline via dilution of it's european
>> population. (yes, means White!)
>>
>> ted
>>
>> sites to visit:
>>
>> http://www.wvw.net/ Western Voices World News
>>
>> http://www.newnation.org/ New Nation News- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> So...........? Big deal. The rest of the world's human population
> is still thriving.

Africa is thriving? Europe is thriving? China is thriving? Do read
the financial papers? Russia is basket case.

== 7 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 4:48 am
From: Dan

on 2/13/09 5:11 AM GLOBALIST said the following:
> On Feb 13, 4:14 am, Igor The Terrible
> <igor_the_terri...@mad.scientist.com> wrote:
>> On Feb 13, 5:01 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 23:45:15 -0500, Test User <T...@NosSpam.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>> It's all falling apart, isn't it?
>>>> I've been taking a look at the big picture again lately and forgive me
>>>> if I speak the obvious but, it's all falling apart. America. It's
>>>> falling apart.
>>>> We have Ivy League Schools whose graduates are dumber than sand. Need
>>>> proof? Look at the financial debacle. These Ivy League Bankers, Brokers
>>>> and Money Managers were too friggin stupid to figure out they were
>>>> running themselves into bankruptcy!
>>>> Many of today's American businessmen who aren't outright stupid, are
>>>> turning out to be sociopaths; brazenly robbing, defrauding and scamming
>>>> anyone they can. Take the head of AIG for example; such a schemer that
>>>> he wrecked his company by intentionally doing business in such a way as
>>>> to make bigger bonuses for himself. Same thing with the top guys in
>>>> Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
>>>> These guys ran their companies right into Bankruptcy just to enrich
>>>> themselves.
>>>> American public school kids are graduating high schools and even
>>>> colleges so dumb that most of them cannot find their own home states on
>>>> an unlabeled map! A whole slew of them can't do basic calculus and their
>>>> ability to spell or think critically is virtually non-existent.
>>>> We have a government that is spending so much money there isn't enough
>>>> on the entire planet to lend to them, so they have to print their own
>>>> just to keep pace. That can't last much longer.
>>>> We have millions of diseased, uneducated illegal aliens in the country
>>>> who have brought with them their filthy, third-world cultures. These
>>>> pieces of human filth have caused resurgence in diseases like polio,
>>>> long cured from this land!
>>>> We treat homosexuals like they're some sort of gift instead of a plague;
>>>> and in some places, the boards of education are unleashing these
>>>> sodomites on young school children to "teach them" about the so-called
>>>> "alternative lifestyle."
>>>> If you dare speak out about this stuff, you're smeared as a 'hater" or
>>>> racist, bigot, homophobe or some other such thing.
>>>> Things are so bad on so many levels that I no longer recognize my own
>>>> country. Somethings gotta give. This cannot go on.
>>> When the unemployment rate gets to 10% it should get America's
>>> attention. Yes, America is in decline via dilution of it's european
>>> population. (yes, means White!)
>>> ted
>>> sites to visit:
>>> http://www.wvw.net/ Western Voices World News
>>> http://www.newnation.org/ New Nation News- Hide quoted text -
>>> - Show quoted text -
>> So...........? Big deal. The rest of the world's human population
>> is still thriving.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> I agree.....this US supremacy bullshit was getting real old. I hope
> to hell we will not be a super power anymore, since all it meant was
> we can kill whoever we want for our greed.

If the USA loses reserve currency status, you will see real financial
problems as America will not be able to continue as debtor nation buying
imports and the exporting nations buying US Treasuries to fund deficit
spending year after year. It is not sustainable in the long run, but
politicos are too stupid to realize that. So expect things to get real
ugly...like rioting in the streets and young against old.

== 8 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 4:52 am
From: "Dave"

> When the unemployment rate gets to 10% it should get America's
> attention.

The unemployment rate is over 20% right now, in the U.S.A. At last REPORT
(that I heard anyway) it was near 7%. But the formula was changed/fudged so
that it no longer included discouraged workers. In other words, if this was
say, 1968, the REPORTED unemployment level would be about 22%. -Dave

== 9 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 4:54 am
From: Dan

on 2/13/09 6:52 AM Dave said the following:
>> When the unemployment rate gets to 10% it should get America's
>> attention.
>
>
> The unemployment rate is over 20% right now, in the U.S.A. At last REPORT
> (that I heard anyway) it was near 7%. But the formula was changed/fudged so
> that it no longer included discouraged workers. In other words, if this was
> say, 1968, the REPORTED unemployment level would be about 22%. -Dave
>
>

I don't think it is 22% but over 15%. When is a worker not a worker?
Similar to "I will create or save 2.5 million jobs".

== 10 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 5:05 am
From: William Boyd

Dave wrote:
>> When the unemployment rate gets to 10% it should get America's
>> attention.
>
>
> The unemployment rate is over 20% right now, in the U.S.A. At last REPORT
> (that I heard anyway) it was near 7%. But the formula was changed/fudged so
> that it no longer included discouraged workers. In other words, if this was
> say, 1968, the REPORTED unemployment level would be about 22%. -Dave
>
>
OK Chicken Little why don't you use the statistics.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09037/947350-100.stm

U.S. unemployment rate hits 7.6 percent
Friday, February 06, 2009
By Ann Belser, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics today released the unemployment
figures for January showing that the economy shed 598,000 jobs last
month, bringing the unemployment rate to 7.6 percent, its highest level
in 16 years.

December's jobless rate was 7.2 percent.

Manufacturing was the sector that was the hardest hit, losing 207,000
jobs during the month and accounting for about 35 percent of all of the
recent job losses.

Pennsylvania job numbers for January won't be released until later this
month.
First published on February 6, 2009 at 11:14 am

== 11 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 5:56 am
From: "Dave"

"William Boyd" <williamboyd@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:49957037$1@news.x-privat.org...
> Dave wrote:
>>> When the unemployment rate gets to 10% it should get America's
>>> attention.
>>
>>
>> The unemployment rate is over 20% right now, in the U.S.A. At last
>> REPORT
>> (that I heard anyway) it was near 7%. But the formula was changed/fudged
>> so
>> that it no longer included discouraged workers. In other words, if this
>> was
>> say, 1968, the REPORTED unemployment level would be about 22%. -Dave
>>
>>
> OK Chicken Little why don't you use the statistics.
>
> http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09037/947350-100.stm
>
> U.S. unemployment rate hits 7.6 percent

and when those statistics add in discouraged workers? The number is far
greater than 7.6% -Dave

== 12 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 7:52 am
From: Day Brown

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 03:01:11 -0700, wismel wrote:
> When the unemployment rate gets to 10% it should get America's
> attention. Yes, America is in decline via dilution of it's european
> population. (yes, means White!)
Where do we get reliable relevant data? The per capita carbon footprint
does not seem affordable on incomes in the face of global competition.
Any effort to drive wages up, drives jobs away or outsourced.

The alternative is to adapt the lifestyle to the level of sustainable,
competitive wage levels. Thus, some move back in with parents. Others
move in with other adults in communal housing, to quit buying room board,
and utilities retail, and move up to wholesale.

--
When the Goddess invented sex, She was beside Herself.

== 13 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 9:14 am
From: Dan

on 2/13/09 6:43 AM Dan said the following:
> on 2/13/09 4:14 AM Igor The Terrible said the following:
>> On Feb 13, 5:01 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 23:45:15 -0500, Test User <T...@NosSpam.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> It's all falling apart, isn't it?
>>>> I've been taking a look at the big picture again lately and forgive me
>>>> if I speak the obvious but, it's all falling apart. America. It's
>>>> falling apart.
>>>> We have Ivy League Schools whose graduates are dumber than sand. Need
>>>> proof? Look at the financial debacle. These Ivy League Bankers, Brokers
>>>> and Money Managers were too friggin stupid to figure out they were
>>>> running themselves into bankruptcy!
>>>> Many of today's American businessmen who aren't outright stupid, are
>>>> turning out to be sociopaths; brazenly robbing, defrauding and scamming
>>>> anyone they can. Take the head of AIG for example; such a schemer that
>>>> he wrecked his company by intentionally doing business in such a way as
>>>> to make bigger bonuses for himself. Same thing with the top guys in
>>>> Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
>>>> These guys ran their companies right into Bankruptcy just to enrich
>>>> themselves.
>>>> American public school kids are graduating high schools and even
>>>> colleges so dumb that most of them cannot find their own home states on
>>>> an unlabeled map! A whole slew of them can't do basic calculus and
>>>> their
>>>> ability to spell or think critically is virtually non-existent.
>>>> We have a government that is spending so much money there isn't enough
>>>> on the entire planet to lend to them, so they have to print their own
>>>> just to keep pace. That can't last much longer.
>>>> We have millions of diseased, uneducated illegal aliens in the country
>>>> who have brought with them their filthy, third-world cultures. These
>>>> pieces of human filth have caused resurgence in diseases like polio,
>>>> long cured from this land!
>>>> We treat homosexuals like they're some sort of gift instead of a
>>>> plague;
>>>> and in some places, the boards of education are unleashing these
>>>> sodomites on young school children to "teach them" about the so-called
>>>> "alternative lifestyle."
>>>> If you dare speak out about this stuff, you're smeared as a 'hater" or
>>>> racist, bigot, homophobe or some other such thing.
>>>> Things are so bad on so many levels that I no longer recognize my own
>>>> country. Somethings gotta give. This cannot go on.
>>> When the unemployment rate gets to 10% it should get America's
>>> attention. Yes, America is in decline via dilution of it's european
>>> population. (yes, means White!)
>>>
>>> ted
>>>
>>> sites to visit:
>>>
>>> http://www.wvw.net/ Western Voices World News
>>>
>>> http://www.newnation.org/ New Nation News- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> So...........? Big deal. The rest of the world's human population
>> is still thriving.
>
> Africa is thriving? Europe is thriving? China is thriving? Do read
> the financial papers? Russia is basket case.

NEWS ALERT
from The Wall Street Journal

Feb. 13, 2009

The euro-zone economy contracted by a record amount in the last three
months of 2008 as industrial output was hit hard by the sharp slowdown
in global demand. The decline was led by the biggest quarterly fall in
German gross domestic product for more than two decades. Data from the
European Union's Eurostat statistics agency showed euro-zone GDP
contracted 1.5% on a quarter-to-quarter basis and was 1.2% weaker on an
annual basis, the biggest falls by both measures on record.

== 14 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 9:43 am
From: The Real Bev

Dave wrote:

> "William Boyd" <williamboyd@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Dave wrote:
>>>> When the unemployment rate gets to 10% it should get America's
>>>> attention.
>>>
>>> The unemployment rate is over 20% right now, in the U.S.A. At last
>>> REPORT (that I heard anyway) it was near 7%. But the formula was
>>> changed/fudged so that it no longer included discouraged workers. In
>>> other words, if this was say, 1968, the REPORTED unemployment level would
>>> be about 22%.
>>>
>> OK Chicken Little why don't you use the statistics.
>>
>> http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09037/947350-100.stm
>>
>> U.S. unemployment rate hits 7.6 percent
>
> and when those statistics add in discouraged workers? The number is far
> greater than 7.6% -Dave

Clearly, but I wonder how that number is determined. Do government workers
survey the people who exhausted their unemployment? Perhaps this is a good job
for the people who have exhausted their unemployment...

--
Cheers, Bev
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"I can't stand this proliferation of paperwork. It's useless to
fight the forms. You've got to kill the people producing them."
-- Vladimir Kabaidze

==============================================================================
TOPIC: visit
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/6035dc391ad42838?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 2:30 am
From: visittosucceed

SHARE MARKET, TICKET BOOKING, JOB SEARCH MATRIMONY, E-SHOPPING, ONLINE
MONEY, ARTICLES, RECOMMEND, AND MORE THINGS YOU NEED….
VISIT: www.visittosucceed.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Car Insurance
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/0743cd326690fd99?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 4:51 am
From: Mark Anderson

On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 20:26:16 -0500, Lou wrote:

> I had occasion last year to spend one night in the hospital for some
> minor surgery - went home the next day. The bill came to $100k and
> change. I think you'd be nuts to leave yourself open to paying those
> kinds of bills by foregoing insurance, legal or not.

Here in the great banana republic of Illinois the required coverage for
liability is $40,000. If you insure the minimum and someone ran up a
$100K medical bill you'd still be uninsured for $60K, almost like having
no insurance at all.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 5:40 am
From: "Lou"

"Mark Anderson" <mea@nospambrandylion.com> wrote in message
news:-5SdnYJtMMBF8QjUnZ2dnUVZ_rbinZ2d@speakeasy.net...
> On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 20:26:16 -0500, Lou wrote:
>
>> I had occasion last year to spend one night in the hospital for some
>> minor surgery - went home the next day. The bill came to $100k and
>> change. I think you'd be nuts to leave yourself open to paying those
>> kinds of bills by foregoing insurance, legal or not.
>
> Here in the great banana republic of Illinois the required coverage for
> liability is $40,000. If you insure the minimum and someone ran up a
> $100K medical bill you'd still be uninsured for $60K, almost like having
> no insurance at all.

The easy answer is that you insure for more than the legal minimum. The
other point is that if you end up having to pay, it's a lot easier to pay
60K than it is to pay 100K.

My experience may not be typical - my hospital stay had nothing at all to do
with anything driving related. But if an overnight can cost like that I'd
think you're better off buying insurance than paying the expenses yourself,
no matter how much money you have in the bank.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Does Anyone Ever See Club Soda / Seltzer in Cans Anymore ?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c64d337dfa96e153?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 5:27 am
From: SMS

Jeffy3 wrote:
> The large plastic bottles can usually be found on sale but once you
> open them they go flat and we don't use it all in one day. The little
> glass six or eight packs are always a rip off. Would be nice if could
> find it in 12 oz cans even if its generic no-name soda like you can
> find in supermarkets.

IIRC, Whole Foods has it in their 365 brand, $2.29 for six cans. It may
be in the water or mixers section, not in the soda section.

You're right, those small bottles of Schwepps or Canada Dry are a big
rip off.

Whole Foods also sells very good tonic water, one of the only ones on
the market with real sugar and not HFCS (the other one is a very high
priced brand I saw at Cost Plus World Market).

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 9:14 am
From: jayneau2@earthlink.net

> Jeffy3 wrote:
> > The large plastic bottles can usually be found on sale but once you
> > open them they go flat and we don't use it all in one day. The little
> > glass six or eight packs are always a rip off. Would be nice if could
> > find it in 12 oz cans even if its generic no-name soda like you can
> > find in supermarkets.

Evelyn Leeper wrote:
> They have cases of cans of Vintage (Vantage?) seltzer in Shop-Rite here
> (NJ) all the time.
>
> Where is "here" for you? Maybe it's a regional thing.
>
> --
> Evelyn C. Leeper
> I know you can't live on hope alone but without hope
> life is not worth living. -Harvey Milk

Yep. Bought a 12 pack of Vintage Seltzer 12 oz. cans at Shop Rite
about a month ago for $1.99 (during the "Can-Can" sale!).

Jayneau (in central NJ)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 2 for 1 Printer Cartridge Refills at Walgreen's
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/dccc4d5dc3dd25c8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 8:37 am
From: SMS

Color, 2/$15.14
Black, 2/$10.14

I had some refilled yesterday and they seem to work fine. Twice before I
brought in cartridges that they were unable to refill for whatever
reason, so I brought those to Cartridge World.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Oil Prices Down but Gas Prices Up !
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/e844507e22b0cdc6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 9:22 am
From: Noveau67@aol.com

Well, it was nice to see gas plummet down to $1.57. The "pump and
dump" folks on Wall Street made their money on the up tick, and also
on the down tick, via shorting, and knowing in advance when to short
it, of course.

Now the oil companies are openly admitting they are REDUCING THE
SUPPLY of gas they are refining, in order to get the price up. There
was an article in Yahoo Finance about it.

They are getting away with it again. They act together to reduce the
supply. All one big happy greedy family.

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Frugal Living

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Friday, February 13, 2009

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 8 topics - digest

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