http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en
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Today's topics:
* replacing a muffler on 1994 Dodge Caravan - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/65e53be756dab1c9?hl=en
* Opposition to health care not about race. It's about stupidity - 6 messages,
3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/28531844efc1bbfe?hl=en
* Al Gore - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/175f1dce3e026668?hl=en
* What's up Rod Speed? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/95f8edd5aecceca0?hl=en
* The back lash begins - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/23ad85f93e968a1d?hl=en
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TOPIC: replacing a muffler on 1994 Dodge Caravan
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/65e53be756dab1c9?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 26 2009 12:02 pm
From: Al
On Nov 26, 1:01 pm, a real cheapskate <hall...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Nov 26, 10:28 am, Al <albun...@mailinator.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 26, 10:07 am, Ohioguy <n...@none.net> wrote:
>
> > > I have 2 options now:
>
> > > 1- muffler brothers - probably about $160
>
> > > 2 - my neighbor, who works on brakes, mufflers and such, says he will be
> > > home with his kids this weekend, and they would enjoy working on
> > > something like this. He has an air chisel, and various other tools that
> > > could be needed, depending on how easy things come apart. I think my
> > > son would also enjoy working on something like this, so it would be a
> > > learning/fun project for several of us. I checked locally, and I can
> > > get a muffler for $50-$60. Then I could give my neighbor $50 for the
> > > trouble, and buy a couple of pizzas for everybody, and STILL end up
> > > saving about 50 bucks. I'm sort of tempted to go this second route.
>
> > > Oh, and yes, we have the '69 Ford Econoline as a backup vehicle, but
> > > also have a 2001 Buick. Having 1 vehicle out of commission for a week
> > > is not much trouble.
>
> > Remember, you have a 15 year old vehicle. If you don't know the age of
> > those other parts, they almost certainly need changing also or will
> > very soon and the newer muffler might get damaged in that scenario.
> > This is not really an educational type of repair. It's just dirty and
> > messy. If you have a child under 16, it could also be a source of
> > danger for him and irresponsible to the hilt on your part. I'm not
> > surprised one bit either. The pizza itself is a serious enough health
> > risk.
> > Based upon your own numbers you will have $125 in this repair. I can
> > only conclude that your time is worth almost nothing.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> replace everything from the conveter on back, its all rusted together
> etc.
>
> the larger hassle is getting the vehicle high enough and the
> suspension free enough to get the new main pipe in.
>
> its easy with a sawzall to cut the old pipe into pieces. but hard to
> snake the new pipe in place
OG obviously has zero automotive repair experience in this area
anyway. He does not realize what has happened under there after all
these years. I'd love to inspect all three of his vehicles. I can
almost promise there are several pending issues and safety defects. At
least with the front wheel drive on the Caravan, he would not have to
worry about a rear axle.
I just checked NAPA and there Quiet Flow muffler is $129. The other
parts are quite expensive too. This is going to be interesting if we
ever hear the final result of this venture.
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TOPIC: Opposition to health care not about race. It's about stupidity
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/28531844efc1bbfe?hl=en
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== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 25 2009 11:47 pm
From: "Dave C."
> >> What passed the House is pretty good.
> >
> > What do you like about it? The fact that nobody will be able to
> > keep their current insurance coverage?
>
> The Republican method for all things not strictly Republican is to
> lie, and lie, and lie, and lie, and lie, and lie. And then lie about
> the lying.
It's not a lie, though. The House bill specifies coverage levels.
What this means is that nobody will be able to keep their current
policy. At the very least, if you have health insurance, you will be
required to switch to a different (read: more expensive) plan with
your current provider.
> > The fact that coverage levels are
> > specified (read: rationing) by the government?
>
> Yes! I very much like the idea that government will be regulating
> snake oil and that a package that says "Health Insurance" on it must
> actually contain health insurance.
What is currently called health insurance is way too fricking expensive
for many people to afford. While there is some merit in trying to
improve coverage, adding more coverage without addressing the COST of
current coverage is simply insane.
>
> > The fact that it's
> > going to bankrupt our country?
>
> The Republican method for all things not strictly Republican is to
> lie, and lie, and lie, and lie, and lie, and lie. And then lie about
> the lying.
OK, then tell me...how are we going to be able to afford a 2+ trillion
dollar entitlement program? Before you answer, keep in mind that the
CBO has a nasty habit of under-estimating costs of such things by a
factor of 10 or more. So add another zero or two and then tell me
how you expect us (the taxpayers) to pay for it. And again remember
that there are only about 160 million taxpayers.
>
> But I must admit that the Republicans certainly do have the
> experience edge on this "bankrupt the country" stuff. You lying
> sacks of tax cutting shit have been doing it since Reagan.
>
> > The fact that it's going to send a
> > significant percentage of honest citizens to prison when they can't
> > afford to pay for it?
>
> The Republican method for all things not strictly Republican is to
> lie, and lie, and lie, and lie, and lie, and lie. And then lie about
> the lying.
>
> But maybe it isn't a lie. Maybe you really are the stone cold stupid.
Did you read the bill? There are significant penalties assessed to
those who can't afford to buy the new mandatory health insurance.
These penalties include both fines and jail time. So no, it isn't a
lie.
>
> > The fact that it does nothing to address the real
> > problem of skyrocketing medical costs?
>
> The Republican method for all things not strictly Republican is to
> lie, and lie, and lie, and lie, and lie, and lie. And then lie about
> the lying.
So you think that medical care in the United States is affordable?
Really?
>
> The Public Option in conjunction with Medicare and Medicaid will, in
> fact, reduce the cost of provider services -- "control skyrocketing
> medical costs."
If the government can't keep medicare or medicaid solvent, what makes
you think that a public option will control costs? The public option
will certainly harm the bottom line of many private insurance
companies. Many of the private insurance companies might be driven out
of business. But being cheaper doesn't necessarily equate to cheap.
The public option is (at best) a ponzi scheme. If health insurance is
cheaper, but your taxes are higher to cover it, did you really save
money? Nope, costs are still going up, and now there are fewer health
insurance providers.
>
> > The fact that it also does
> > nothing to fix the problem of frivolous medical lawsuits?
>
> It also does nothing to end the war, establish world peace, arrest
> all illegal aliens, and send a thanksgiving dinner to the moon.
The primary problems with health care are skyrocketing costs and
frivolous lawsuits, partly responsible for skyrocketing costs. A bill
that does nothing to address these basic issues is useless.
>
> > What is so
> > good about it?
>
> The NUMBER ONE good is:
> It moves the burden for indigent care from the middle class insurance
> premium payers to the rich with incomes greater than a million a
> year. By subsidizing insurance for those who currently depend on
> "free" care that is then cost shifted to the middle class insurance
> buyers, the bill reduces the cost of medical insurance for the middle
> class. Those who had to rely on "free" care will now be covered by
> insurance that is subsidized by the rich and less "FREE" care will be
> shifted onto the middle class.
No, the burden is shifted to low-income younger people, roughly 30
years old and younger. The House bill relies on getting more "healthy"
people (read: younger, lower income) to subsidize health care for
older folks who use more health care services.
Meanwhile, taxes will be raised on everybody, including the middle
class and the "rich".
The fact that you think the rich will carry the burden makes you either
severely misinformed, or the spreader of a very dangerous lie. -Dave
== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 25 2009 11:50 pm
From: "Dave C."
> I have _NO_ doubt that the members of the Senate understand what is
> in the Senate bill. That is their job. That is what they were
> elected to do. Putting the actual bill on line is ridiculous in that
> the vast majority of the people who access to it are incapable of
> understanding it.
It is that kind of arrogance that makes the average citizen fuming mad,
and why the tea parties are gaining in popularity. Not only does the
average citizen understand it, the average citizen is MIGHTY PISSED OFF
BY IT. They wouldn't be so fucking angry if they were just scratching
their heads thinking, "What does that mean?" -Dave
== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 26 2009 2:29 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
Michael Coburn wrote
> George wrote
>> Michael Coburn wrote
>>> Dave C. wrote
>>>> Shawn Hirn <srhi@comcast.net> wrote
>>>>> Wilson Woods <banmilk@hotmail.com> wrote
>>>>>> It's about preventing the government from wrecking health care
>>>>>> and access to it that satisfies most people. Idiot leftist
>>>>>> looters who say it's about race know they've lost the debate.
>>>>> Geez! Isn't it obvious that the health care system in the United
>>>>> States is imploding? We Americans pay the highest rates for our
>>>>> health care of any westernized nation, yet we rank near the bottom
>>>>> for most metrics that determine the quality of our health care
>>>>> such as life expectancy, infant mortality, etc.
>>>> So you think we should fix it by making it a lot worse? What
>>>> passed the House amounts to fixing a flat tire by pushing the car
>>>> off a cliff.
>>> What passed the House is pretty good. The Senate is doing all it can to poison it.
>> This is a serious question. You would know that how? I doubt anyone
>> can understand the 2000 pages of mostly incomprehensible writing with
>> thousands of references.
> I have _NO_ doubt that the members of the Senate understand what is in the Senate bill.
More fool you.
> That is their job.
It was Greenspan's job to regulate the economy. He fucked it up very spectacularly indeed anyway.
> That is what they were elected to do.
So fucking what ?
> Putting the actual bill on line is ridiculous in that the vast majority
> of the people who access to it are incapable of understanding it.
The Senators in spades.
> Each Senator has a staff of individuals that go through that bill with a
> fine tooth comb and who know the references or can easily find them.
And none of them understand it either.
> Each Senator is therefore acutely aware of the ramifications of the bill.
Only in your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant failed trucker fantasyland.
>> I will give Congress credit for something when they can deliver a
>> bill in about 12 pages with clear and concise tables defining the
>> scope and conditions allowing anyone to interpret their work.
> The House bill is well summarized on line.
> http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AHCAA-DETAILEDSUMMARY-102909.pdf
You have no way of knowing if its well summarised or not.
> The Senate bill is compared here :
> http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/11/18/cbo-senate-bill/
And you have no way of knowing how accurate that is either.
>> They should be totally embarrassed about the quality of their work
>> product. They are insulting their employers (us) and deserve not to
>> be rehired in the next election.
> We observe your moronic childishness and recognize that you are a Republican.
You in spades, demoprat.
== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 26 2009 2:30 pm
From: "Karl"
"Dave C." <noway@nohow.never> wrote in message
news:20091125211708.5e1f19b9.noway@nohow.never...
> On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 19:35:05 -0500
> Shawn Hirn <srhi@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> In article <HMmdndq9N4R0Qk7XnZ2dnUVZ_rednZ2d@earthlink.com>,
>> Wilson Woods <banmilk@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > It's about preventing the government from wrecking health care and
>> > access to it that satisfies most people. Idiot leftist looters who
>> > say it's about race know they've lost the debate.
>>
>> Geez! Isn't it obvious that the health care system in the United
>> States is imploding? We Americans pay the highest rates for our
>> health care of any westernized nation, yet we rank near the bottom
>> for most metrics that determine the quality of our health care such
>> as life expectancy, infant mortality, etc.
>
> So you think we should fix it by making it a lot worse? What passed
> the House amounts to fixing a flat tire by pushing the car off a
> cliff. -Dave
That's always the mantra of the rightists. Look we don't HAVE TO do
anything. Once medicare can't make it's payments because the GOP has
successfully blocked any reform what do you think will happen?
Do you think people will say OH that's ok grannie doesn't need to see a Doc
cuz she's REALLY old.....
If you think the senior community will sit by and let the health care system
shut down (that's what will happen when medicare shuts down) you are crazy.
They will scream to BURN DOWN the pentagon if you have to get Medicare
funded.
And this is the whole crux of the issue. Cost. If you don't get costs
under control and soon the system will right itself. It will be painful.
People will die. All because rightwing loons like Palin and Glen Beck
scream SOCIALISM anytime you try and get reforms passed.
Look do you want a single payer system? If you do block the health care
reforms Obama is pushing. Then events in the near future will force a
single payer system on the US.
If you want private insurance shut up and support health care reforms being
pushed in congress.
This is happening it's just a matter of when!
== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 26 2009 2:31 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
Michael Coburn wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Michael Coburn wrote
>>> Dave C. wrote
>>>> Shawn Hirn <srhi@comcast.net> wrote
>>>>> Wilson Woods <banmilk@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> It's about preventing the government from wrecking health
>>>>>> care and access to it that satisfies most people. Idiot leftist
>>>>>> looters who say it's about race know they've lost the debate.
>>>>> Geez! Isn't it obvious that the health care system in the United
>>>>> States is imploding? We Americans pay the highest rates for our
>>>>> health care of any westernized nation, yet we rank near the bottom
>>>>> for most metrics that determine the quality of our health care
>>>>> such as life expectancy, infant mortality, etc.
>>>> So you think we should fix it by making it a lot worse? What passed
>>>> the House amounts to fixing a flat tire by pushing the car off a cliff.
>>> What passed the House is pretty good.
>> Nope, its just fiddling with the detail of the completely fucked insurance system.
>> The only thing that works is a decent universal single payer system.
>>> The Senate is doing all it can to poison it.
> If it was possible to get a Canadian style system through the
> larcenous, bought and paid for US Senate then that is what the
> House would have done because that is what the majority want.
Only in your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant failed trucker fantasyland.
> Politics is the art of the possible.
You'll end up completely blind if you dont watch out.
== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 26 2009 2:33 pm
From: "Karl"
"Dave C." <noway@nohow.never> wrote in message
news:20091126055924.536025ab.noway@nohow.never...
> On 26 Nov 2009 05:57:41 GMT
> Michael Coburn <mikcob@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 21:17:08 +0800, Dave C. wrote:
>>
>> > On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 19:35:05 -0500
>> > Shawn Hirn <srhi@comcast.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> In article <HMmdndq9N4R0Qk7XnZ2dnUVZ_rednZ2d@earthlink.com>,
>> >> Wilson Woods <banmilk@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > It's about preventing the government from wrecking health care
>> >> > and access to it that satisfies most people. Idiot leftist
>> >> > looters who say it's about race know they've lost the debate.
>> >>
>> >> Geez! Isn't it obvious that the health care system in the United
>> >> States is imploding? We Americans pay the highest rates for our
>> >> health care of any westernized nation, yet we rank near the bottom
>> >> for most metrics that determine the quality of our health care
>> >> such as life expectancy, infant mortality, etc.
>> >
>> > So you think we should fix it by making it a lot worse? What
>> > passed the House amounts to fixing a flat tire by pushing the car
>> > off a cliff. -Dave
>>
>> What passed the House is pretty good.
>
> What do you like about it? The fact that nobody will be able to keep
> their current insurance coverage?
Can't you READ? You can keep your coverage. You just don't me to be able
sign up for a public option. I wonder why. Do you need ME to subsidize
YOUR health premiums?
The fact that coverage levels are
> specified (read: rationing) by the government? The fact that it's
> going to bankrupt our country?
The CBO says it will CUT the deficit. The CBO is nonpartisan.
The fact that it's going to send a
> significant percentage of honest citizens to prison when they can't
> afford to pay for it? The fact that it does nothing to address the
> real problem of skyrocketing medical costs?
Public option does and right hates it! So you are against cost
containment....WHY?
The fact that it also does
> nothing to fix the problem of frivolous medical lawsuits? What is so
> good about it?
>
>> The Senate is doing all it can
>> to poison it.
>>
>
> I don't think the Senate bill is going to be much better. But if the
> Senate bill is significantly different, that could actually be a good
> thing, if the two bills can not be reconciled. -Dave
>
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Al Gore
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/175f1dce3e026668?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 26 2009 6:36 pm
From: "sr"
Gore is the P T Barnum of our time
you may quote me
therefore: Gore is irrelevant
==============================================================================
TOPIC: What's up Rod Speed?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/95f8edd5aecceca0?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 26 2009 10:59 pm
From: "sr"
Getting out of control?
Climategate: five Aussie MPs lead the way by resigning in disgust over
carbon tax
==============================================================================
TOPIC: The back lash begins
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/23ad85f93e968a1d?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 26 2009 11:00 pm
From: "sr"
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