Frugal Living: misc.consumers.frugal-living - 23 new messages in 17 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Today's dumpster find: Mega Shreder. - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/5b44d29550fb775a?hl=en
* Www.dotradenow.com Cheap Wholesale Air Force One Nike Air Max Nike Shox
Sneakers - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c8f0bc318768eaab?hl=en
* Drinking your urine? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f398dbaf45a0be0e?hl=en
* ♬♪♫ ♪ Gucci Shoes Cheap wholesale at www.fjrjtrade.com ★paypal payment★ - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/aaf684de020c4482?hl=en
* shopping without credit card(membership free) - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/087ba6a382bbbb31?hl=en
* ♬+♬+♬Wholesale cheap Nike Shox shoes at www.ecyaya.com【paypal payment】 - 2
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/45d0e458d4b3ca9b?hl=en
* Flightposite,Nike jordan Basketball shoes K1X Chiefglider wholesale
suppliers factory.We sale new Nike Sneakers,Air Jordan Sneakers,(paypal
payment) www.ebaychinaonline.com - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/ea5c342030cb8ad7?hl=en
* Frugal Solar ideas? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/8a1d3a9403235bc5?hl=en
* Why Graduate Degrees Are a Rip Off: Crunching the Numbers Submitted by G.E.
Miller on Thursday, 21 January 2010Why Graduate Degrees Are a Rip Off:
Crunching the Numbers - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a7e5a8b99c091902?hl=en
* 2010 Hot sale Discount AAA true leather Versace, ED Hardy, Chanel,LV
handbags& purses(www.dotradenow.com) - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/428b8b38cf4e90d8?hl=en
* Why God created men so ugly and women so pretty? - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/4c20ed3bffa0ebbe?hl=en
* DONT TASE ME, bro :) - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3eaa4d0d78867a17?hl=en
* Using Bicarbonate Against the Swine Flu & Colds - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/2327990b4a832a88?hl=en
* BIG PHARMA Tells Americans, "No Fuckin' Way We'll Let You Buy Cheaper Drugs
From Canada, UK, India, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, China, South Korea, Or
Any Other Country! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3336f4cc2e321617?hl=en
* Portable word processor - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/33253b6904720eef?hl=en
* when plywood isn't plywood - did I just get reamed? - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/4d38863eed5257ed?hl=en
* Any wheels bad, two legs good - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3ce9d8165921db9e?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Today's dumpster find: Mega Shreder.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/5b44d29550fb775a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 22 2010 9:58 pm
From: Dan Birchall

gonzo@alltomyself.com (Gordon) wrote:
> It's a Staples SPL-XC240D. As the header says, it was
> in the dumpster. I fished it out and plugged it in.
> It ran just fine. Maybe too fine, it wouldn't turn off.
> Well, if it runs...
>
> So I took it apart and cleaned out all the paper scraps
> that had worked themselves into the various nooks and
> crannies of the machine. Vaccumed out the paper dust.
> readjusted the paper sensor. Lubricated it and put it
> back together. It works just like new.
>
> For those of you who haven't looked it up yet. This thing
> is no trashcan shredder. It will cut 24 sheets, CDs,
> and credit cards. It has its own catch bin.

Nice! I have something similar (but I bought it), different brand.
They're very useful.

I'm pondering why someone would throw one away, though. Maybe they
upgraded to something even heavier-duty, or maybe they wanted to be
able to deny having shredded all that incriminating evidence... ;)

--
Oh, wicked, bad, naughty, _evil_ Dan! He is a _naughty_ person...

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 23 2010 8:54 am
From: Michael Black

On Fri, 22 Jan 2010, Dan Birchall wrote:

> gonzo@alltomyself.com (Gordon) wrote:
>> It's a Staples SPL-XC240D. As the header says, it was
>> in the dumpster. I fished it out and plugged it in.
>> It ran just fine. Maybe too fine, it wouldn't turn off.
>> Well, if it runs...
>>
>> So I took it apart and cleaned out all the paper scraps
>> that had worked themselves into the various nooks and
>> crannies of the machine. Vaccumed out the paper dust.
>> readjusted the paper sensor. Lubricated it and put it
>> back together. It works just like new.
>>
>> For those of you who haven't looked it up yet. This thing
>> is no trashcan shredder. It will cut 24 sheets, CDs,
>> and credit cards. It has its own catch bin.
>
> Nice! I have something similar (but I bought it), different brand.
> They're very useful.
>
> I'm pondering why someone would throw one away, though. Maybe they
> upgraded to something even heavier-duty, or maybe they wanted to be
> able to deny having shredded all that incriminating evidence... ;)
>
He said it wouldn't turn off. For at least some people, that's a fault,
and requires either repair or replacement. They seem to have decided
on the latter path.

Other people would find it perfectly acceptable that they had to
unplug it to turn it off. "It works now, why fuss with it?". Others
wouldn't be afraid to open it up and see if they can fix it, "It works,
so how difficult can it be to find out why it doesn't turn off?".

The original owner felt that buying a new one was an acceptable expense,
while others would do their best to avoid buying a new one.

Michael

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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c8f0bc318768eaab?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
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TOPIC: Drinking your urine?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f398dbaf45a0be0e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 23 2010 12:38 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Les Cargill wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> VFW wrote

>>> I have heard that in desperate conditions drinking your own urine can be a necessary evil.

>> That fool Ghandi did it all the time. Look what happened to him.

> So it caused being assassinated?

Nope, what he was like before that, stupid.

>>> It's better than de-hydration .
>>> IMHO

>> Why is your opinion hairy ?

> Somebody reset Rod....

Cant even manage its own lines.

>>> it might save some lives in Haiti.

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== 1 of 1 ==
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TOPIC: shopping without credit card(membership free)
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TOPIC: Frugal Solar ideas?
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 23 2010 5:53 am
From: jeff

VFW wrote:
> In article
> <9a24ed5b-3c1e-43da-89f9-c56c395c6d07@l30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
> Al <albundy2@mailinator.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jan 22, 2:58 pm, VFW <george...@toast.net> wrote:
>>> http://www.solarenergyvillage.co.cc/2009/11/homeowner-builds-environm...
>>> lly.html
>>> just choosing solar might be easier than you thought.
>>> --
>>> Hint; Enjoy the moment !
>> It's going to be super easy for me as I'm not going there. Keep me
>> posted on when they get it worked out and it's cheaper than regular
>> power.
>
> Around here, there has been a mini-growth industry just for the folks
> that don't want a meter-reader getting anywhere their marijuana grow.
> Or be bothered with a generator.

Doesn't a large farm of solar collectors attract attention?

You might as well just have a green house and eliminate the steps of
converting light to electricity to light. But what do I know!

I've been concentrating on the cost of heating, and solar is well
suited and affordable there. The cost of electricity for non heating
(cold months) is not that much of a concern for me. With that said, my
next solar project is going to be an array of trough type collectors to
generate electricity, because I found a way to build them accurately and
cheaply. PV is just too pricey.

Jeff

> Cheaper is not concern with them. But they are supporting the progress
> of designs that will become cheaper in the future.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why Graduate Degrees Are a Rip Off: Crunching the Numbers Submitted by
G.E. Miller on Thursday, 21 January 2010Why Graduate Degrees Are a Rip Off:
Crunching the Numbers
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a7e5a8b99c091902?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 23 2010 6:21 am
From: Ablang

Why Graduate Degrees Are a Rip Off: Crunching the Numbers
Submitted by G.E. Miller on Thursday, 21 January 2010

http://20somethingfinance.com/why-graduate-degrees-are-a-rip-off-crunching-the-numbers/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+20somethingfinancecom+%2820SomethingFinance.com%29

This one should fire you up one way or the other. I've been in many a
heated debate about this very topic before. So let's have some fun
with it. I'm going to come out and say it – I HATE GRADUATE DEGREES.
My hatred for them can be boiled down into three main reasons:

1. I hate how much they cost.
2. I hate the implicit pressure that comes from corporate America
for people to slave away to earn that piece of paper if they want to
get promoted and have a future career in management (even though those
with further hands on experience typically excel in comparison).
3. I hate that I have seen those in management positions with an
MBA perform at levels far below their much less numerous sub-MBA
peers. Seemingly, that extra education did absolutely nothing for
their real world skills – and actually probably added a little bit of
complacency and entitlement in a lot of cases.

This is coming from someone who had a glorious undergrad experience,
excelled academically to the tune of a 3.96/4.0 GPA from a major
university, and appreciates the doors that my bachelor degree opened
for me (above and beyond what a high school diploma ever could have).

With my work experience and educational background, I am fairly
confident that I could get into a top 10 MBA program. But I have ZERO
desire to because of the above reasons.

Before you cave in to rat race pressure, you're going to want to
crunch some numbers yourself and do some background research. I've
decided to crunch some numbers here as a guideline for you. I fully
admit that these numbers are not applicable to everyone, but I have
not gone out of my way to skew them to favor my argument. Feel free to
run your own and share them in the comments.
Crunching the Numbers on an MBA – Will it Pay Off?

Let's make these assumptions:

According to a recent Wall Street Journal article, the average salary
of a full-time worker with a bachelor's degree is $50,900. Those with
a master's degree averaged $61,300.

If I were to go to business school, I personally would be looking to
get an MBA at a top 10 business school – which would cost me about
$95,000 in tuition alone, according to Investopedia.

Then there's the opportunity cost of an MBA: In other words. The lost
income during the two plus years you are going to school full time.
Let's just take the average annual bachelor's degree salary and double
that, which would equate to $101,800 (for me, it's more than that) –
but I'm trying to be conservative here.

Oh, but let's not forget books, room and board, and other peripheral
costs. Those could add up to another $50K fairly quickly.

The final math would look like this:

Tuition ($98K ) + Opportunity cost of lost wages ($102K) + Room/board/
tuition/other ($50K) = $250K

$250K?? That's crazy!! Yes, but it's even crazier when you factor in
the cost of the student loans, if you were to use them. Here's what
that mess might look like.

Loan Balance: $98,000.00
Adjusted Loan Balance: $98,000.00
Loan Interest Rate: 6.80%
Loan Fees: 0.00%
Loan Term: 25 years
Minimum Payment: $50.00
Monthly Loan Payment: $680.19
Number of Payments: 300

Cumulative Payments: $204,057.52
Total Interest Paid: $106,057.52
How Long Would it Take to Make your Money Back on a Graduate Degree?

Well, if we're going by the WSJ averages above, we're looking at an
average annual salary increase of $10,400 with the grad degree. At
these numbers, it would take you nearly 25 years to make your money
back on your initial investment (I'll be kind and leave out the cost
of the loans). And that is IF you find a job right away upon
graduation AND they are willing to pay you a premium for that piece of
paper.

What age would that put you at? Well, considering the average grad
student starts at 28 and takes two years to finish, on average, grad
students wouldn't make back their investment until age 55 (again,
factoring in zero in loan cost). Factoring in the cost of the loans?
Well… yeah, you'd be able to apply for social security in retirement.

I don't know about you, but I hope to be retired long before then on
my measly bachelor's degree wages.

Grad School Discussion:

* Have you gone? Can you speak to the numbers I ran in this
article?
* Did you run your own numbers? What did you come up with?
* Still excited about grad school after reading this? Tell me why
I'm an idiot.
* Take the poll!

Is Grad School Worth the Money?

* Absolutely!
* No Way!

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 23 2010 10:22 am
From: "Bob F"

Ablang wrote:
> Why Graduate Degrees Are a Rip Off: Crunching the Numbers
> Submitted by G.E. Miller on Thursday, 21 January 2010
>
> http://20somethingfinance.com/why-graduate-degrees-are-a-rip-off-crunching-the-numbers/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+20somethingfinancecom+%2820SomethingFinance.com%29
>
> This one should fire you up one way or the other. I've been in many a
> heated debate about this very topic before. So let's have some fun
> with it. I'm going to come out and say it – I HATE GRADUATE DEGREES.
> My hatred for them can be boiled down into three main reasons:
>
> 1. I hate how much they cost.
> 2. I hate the implicit pressure that comes from corporate America
> for people to slave away to earn that piece of paper if they want to
> get promoted and have a future career in management (even though those
> with further hands on experience typically excel in comparison).
> 3. I hate that I have seen those in management positions with an
> MBA perform at levels far below their much less numerous sub-MBA
> peers. Seemingly, that extra education did absolutely nothing for
> their real world skills – and actually probably added a little bit of
> complacency and entitlement in a lot of cases.
>
> This is coming from someone who had a glorious undergrad experience,
> excelled academically to the tune of a 3.96/4.0 GPA from a major
> university, and appreciates the doors that my bachelor degree opened
> for me (above and beyond what a high school diploma ever could have).
>
> With my work experience and educational background, I am fairly
> confident that I could get into a top 10 MBA program. But I have ZERO
> desire to because of the above reasons.
>
> Before you cave in to rat race pressure, you're going to want to
> crunch some numbers yourself and do some background research. I've
> decided to crunch some numbers here as a guideline for you. I fully
> admit that these numbers are not applicable to everyone, but I have
> not gone out of my way to skew them to favor my argument. Feel free to
> run your own and share them in the comments.
> Crunching the Numbers on an MBA – Will it Pay Off?
>
> Let's make these assumptions:
>
> According to a recent Wall Street Journal article, the average salary
> of a full-time worker with a bachelor's degree is $50,900. Those with
> a master's degree averaged $61,300.
>
> If I were to go to business school, I personally would be looking to
> get an MBA at a top 10 business school – which would cost me about
> $95,000 in tuition alone, according to Investopedia.
>
> Then there's the opportunity cost of an MBA: In other words. The lost
> income during the two plus years you are going to school full time.
> Let's just take the average annual bachelor's degree salary and double
> that, which would equate to $101,800 (for me, it's more than that) –
> but I'm trying to be conservative here.
>
> Oh, but let's not forget books, room and board, and other peripheral
> costs. Those could add up to another $50K fairly quickly.
>
> The final math would look like this:
>
> Tuition ($98K ) + Opportunity cost of lost wages ($102K) + Room/board/
> tuition/other ($50K) = $250K
>
> $250K?? That's crazy!! Yes, but it's even crazier when you factor in
> the cost of the student loans, if you were to use them. Here's what
> that mess might look like.
>
> Loan Balance: $98,000.00
> Adjusted Loan Balance: $98,000.00
> Loan Interest Rate: 6.80%
> Loan Fees: 0.00%
> Loan Term: 25 years
> Minimum Payment: $50.00
> Monthly Loan Payment: $680.19
> Number of Payments: 300
>
> Cumulative Payments: $204,057.52
> Total Interest Paid: $106,057.52
> How Long Would it Take to Make your Money Back on a Graduate Degree?
>
> Well, if we're going by the WSJ averages above, we're looking at an
> average annual salary increase of $10,400 with the grad degree. At
> these numbers, it would take you nearly 25 years to make your money
> back on your initial investment (I'll be kind and leave out the cost
> of the loans). And that is IF you find a job right away upon
> graduation AND they are willing to pay you a premium for that piece of
> paper.
>
> What age would that put you at? Well, considering the average grad
> student starts at 28 and takes two years to finish, on average, grad
> students wouldn't make back their investment until age 55 (again,
> factoring in zero in loan cost). Factoring in the cost of the loans?
> Well… yeah, you'd be able to apply for social security in retirement.
>
> I don't know about you, but I hope to be retired long before then on
> my measly bachelor's degree wages.
>
> Grad School Discussion:
>
> * Have you gone? Can you speak to the numbers I ran in this
> article?
> * Did you run your own numbers? What did you come up with?
> * Still excited about grad school after reading this? Tell me why
> I'm an idiot.
> * Take the poll!
>
> Is Grad School Worth the Money?
>
> * Absolutely!
> * No Way!

If money is the only reason for getting the degree, you may be right. There are
lots of other reasons. Plenty of scientists get advanced degrees because that is
their love. If MBA's are the only advanced degree you know of, you are living in
a hole.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 23 2010 3:02 pm
From: "Bill"

You should attach that to your resume.

If I was doing the hiring, you would have the job!
(Just need to get it past the "human resources" types...)

"Ablang" wrote in message
Why Graduate Degrees Are a Rip Off: Crunching the Numbers
Submitted by G.E. Miller on Thursday, 21 January 2010

http://20somethingfinance.com/why-graduate-degrees-are-a-rip-off-crunching-the-numbers/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+20somethingfinancecom+%2820SomethingFinance.com%29

With my work experience and educational background, I am fairly
confident that I could get into a top 10 MBA program. But I have ZERO
desire to because of the above reasons.

Let's make these assumptions:

According to a recent Wall Street Journal article, the average salary
of a full-time worker with a bachelor's degree is $50,900. Those with
a master's degree averaged $61,300.

If I were to go to business school, I personally would be looking to
get an MBA at a top 10 business school – which would cost me about
$95,000 in tuition alone, according to Investopedia.

Oh, but let's not forget books, room and board, and other peripheral
costs. Those could add up to another $50K fairly quickly.

The final math would look like this:

Tuition ($98K ) + Opportunity cost of lost wages ($102K) + Room/board/
tuition/other ($50K) = $250K

$250K?? That's crazy!! Yes, but it's even crazier when you factor in
the cost of the student loans, if you were to use them. Here's what
that mess might look like.

Loan Balance: $98,000.00
Adjusted Loan Balance: $98,000.00
Loan Interest Rate: 6.80%
Loan Fees: 0.00%
Loan Term: 25 years
Minimum Payment: $50.00
Monthly Loan Payment: $680.19
Number of Payments: 300

Cumulative Payments: $204,057.52
Total Interest Paid: $106,057.52
How Long Would it Take to Make your Money Back on a Graduate Degree?

I don't know about you, but I hope to be retired long before then on
my measly bachelor's degree wages.

Grad School Discussion:

Is Grad School Worth the Money?

* Absolutely!
* No Way!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 2010 Hot sale Discount AAA true leather Versace, ED Hardy, Chanel,LV
handbags& purses(www.dotradenow.com)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/428b8b38cf4e90d8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 23 2010 7:27 am
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why God created men so ugly and women so pretty?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/4c20ed3bffa0ebbe?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 23 2010 7:33 am
From: TheTibetanMonkey showing-the-path-of-enlightenment-in-the-jungle

On Jan 23, 6:55 am, e_space <espace1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> your view of humans is pretty morbid isnt it? how can you possibly
> live with your humanity? or are you just special and vastly different?
> maybe you are 'god' huh? after all, you do call yourself king this,
> and king that, and claim that you are 'showing-the-path-of-
> enlightenment' ... lol ... funny, i feel heavier after reading your
> comments, not lighter ... like ive just consumed a lot of
> cowsmatesshit ;^-]

To be honest, I feel a bit resentful about this humanity that
arrogantly destroys natures and wipes out species, while claiming to
believe in a "just" god, who will "only" save them and condemn the
rest to eternal BBQ.

Hopefully though I will be able to free the "monkey within," who's
more humble and knows things about evolution, like it is time to
change, stop all those crazy wars, junk all those SUVs and ride a bike
in the cool morning breeze.

Your hungry Christian lion is doomed to extinction, brother.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 23 2010 2:18 pm
From: TheTibetanMonkey showing-the-path-of-enlightenment-in-the-jungle

On Jan 23, 3:54 pm, TheTibetanMonkey showing-the-path-of-enlightenment-
in-the-jungle <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jan 23, 2:01 pm, "Jakub A. Krzewicki" <ebre...@poczta.onet.pl>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > sobota, 23 stycznia 2010 18:27. carbon entity 'TheTibetanMonkey
> > showing-the-path-of-enlightenment-in-the-jungle'
> > <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> contaminated alt.religion.buddhism.tibetan with
> > the following letter:
>
> > > On Jan 23, 11:45 am, Penny M <penn...@rotterdam.net> wrote:
> > >> The wisdom of the world is a kind of veil by which the mind is prevented
> > >> from beholding God (1 Cor. 2:9).
>
> > > The wisdom of the jungle is way deeper and more practical:
>
> > > "ALL SPECIES ARE RELATED IN ONE WEB OF LIFE... DON'T DESTROY NATURE
> > > OR YOU DESTROY YOURSELF"
>
> > > "COOPERATION OR COMPETITION ARE TWO PATHS YOU MAY TAKE... EXTREME
> > > COMPETITION WILL LEAD TO A DOG-EAT-DOG WORLD"
>
> > > I just improvised those observations, but I'm sure there's more wise
> > > advice from the jungle, oh...
>
> > > "WATCH FOR SNEAKY SNAKES IN YOUR PATH"
>
> > Some jungle wisdom had slipped into the so-called Bible.
>
> > "Ecce ego mitto vos sicut oves in medio luporum. Estote ergo prudentes sicut
> > serpentes, et simplices sicut columbæ."
> > which means:
> > "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore
> > wise as serpents, and harmless as doves." --- Matthew X 16
>
> Oh thank you, brother. I've never considered the Bible totally stupid.
>
> I'm watching a movie --not a Hollywood movie-- a movie about the real
> jungle in the Mongol steppes and they put the Monkey in a cage... and
> that's no good. I'll keep you posted and put the link later.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

This is the movie: MONGOL, and this is one review:

Mongols need laws. I will make them obey -- even if I have to kill
half of them.
--Genghis Khan

By Roger Ebert

Sergei Bodrov's "Mongol" is a ferocious film, blood-soaked, pausing
occasionally for passionate romance and more frequently for torture.
As a visual spectacle, it is all but overwhelming, putting to shame
some of the recent historical epics from Hollywood. If it has a flaw,
and it does, it is expressed succinctly by the wife of its hero: "All
Mongols do is kill and steal."

She must have seen the movie. That's about all they do in "Mongol."
They do not sing, dance, chant, hold summit meetings, have courts,
hunt, or (with one exception) even cook and eat. They have no culture,
except for a series of sayings: "A Mongol does, or does not ..." a
long list of things, although many a Mongol seems never to have been
issued the list, and does (or does not) do them, anyway.

more...

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080619/REVIEWS/944262138

***

MY ANALYSIS:

The Law of the Jungle prevails in Mongolia and Genghis Khan brings
laws necessary for civilization. What a wonderful thing! It reminds me
how badly laws are need on our roads, where still the weak find no
place to hide. I've been savagely attacked and spit upon for riding a
bike on a road while the police stood there catching $peeder$, and he
saw nothing. The hordes of drivers will some day be tamed, I'm sure.

But I'm also sure you may interpret this movie in many ways.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: DONT TASE ME, bro :)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3eaa4d0d78867a17?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 23 2010 10:07 am
From: phil scott

On Jan 20, 10:17 pm, AzzMazta <penac...@yomomma.hot.invalid> wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 10:24:42 -0800 (PST), phil scott wrote:
> > Peace brothers... peace...
> > DON'T TASE ME bro. :)
>
> Butchykid FTW!!!
>
> --
>
> AzzMazta's Political Institute
> Verbal Diarrhea & More
> Washington, DChttp://www.youtube.com/apinst/

thanks, nice link

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Using Bicarbonate Against the Swine Flu & Colds
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/2327990b4a832a88?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 23 2010 11:04 am
From: Courtney

Recommended dosages from the Arm and Hammer Company for colds and
influenza back in 1925 were:

During the first day take six doses of half teaspoonful of Arm &
Hammer Bicarbonate of Soda in glass of cool water, at about two hour
intervals.

During the second day take four doses of half teaspoonful of Arm and
Hammer Bicarbonate of Soda in glass of cool water, at the same
intervals.

During the third day take two doses of half teaspoonful of Arm and
Hammer Bicarbonate of Soda in glass of cool water morning and evening,
and thereafter half teaspoonful in glass of cool water each morning
until cold is cured.

***Well the sodium bicarbonate cure for colds and sore throats.
A friend called as I was reading about it, I told her to try it.
She is rapt! Relief in a few hours, and she went to work the
following day! And she was miserable and could hardly talk,
had just woken with it full on, and was planning on missing
work.***

http://sodiumbicarbonate.imva.info/index.php/administration-methods/arm-hammer-soda-company/

http://www.facebook.com/naturallivingforum#/pages/natural-living-forum/65950834522?ref=mf

==============================================================================
TOPIC: BIG PHARMA Tells Americans, "No Fuckin' Way We'll Let You Buy Cheaper
Drugs From Canada, UK, India, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, China, South
Korea, Or Any Other Country!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3336f4cc2e321617?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 23 2010 11:15 am
From: "Slartibartfast"

do you mean "it's rat poison"? that might make a bit of sense then!

"STEPHEN" <willy@matthehonk.com> wrote in message
news:7os9k2F3rhju2U1@mid.individual.net...
> Its rat poison
> "Palin'sAnusRimmer" <perryneheum@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:940ac607-6245-4272-8ecd-53cd0452d167@g25g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>> "The heartburn medication Nexium, for example, costs $36 in Spain and
>> $424 in the United States."
>>
>> But you just know most Republicans, the Chamber of Commerce, and the
>> remnants of Bush's pro-industry, anti-consumer FDA will back
>> drugmakers on this one!
>>
>> Now, who you seniors gonna get mad at?
>> -----------------
>>
>> "Drugmakers fight plan to allow imports"
>>
>> By Dan Eggen
>> Washington Post Staff Writer
>> Tuesday, December 15, 2009
>>
>> Drugmakers intensified their lobbying push Monday against a popular
>> proposal to allow Americans to buy cheaper drugs from other countries,
>> one of several heated disputes that have bogged down negotiations over
>> a heath-care reform bill.
>>
>> The talks prompted hospitals, insurers and other major industries
>> attempting to steer the legislation in their favor to push for changes
>> as lawmakers work through a handful of complex issues. Medical
>> providers, for example, are battling a proposed Democratic compromise
>> that would jettison a public insurance option in favor of a limited
>> expansion of Medicare, while the U.S. Chamber of Commerce flew dozens
>> of corporate executives to Washington last week to meet with
>> lawmakers.
>>
>> The fight over the proposal further complicates Democrats' efforts to
>> build support for health-care legislation in the Senate. The dispute
>> also poses a particularly difficult political challenge for President
>> Obama, who co-sponsored a similar bill when he was in Congress and who
>> included funding for the idea in his first budget.
>>
>> The amendment, sponsored by Sen. Byron L. Dorgan (D-N.D.), would allow
>> pharmacies and wholesalers to import U.S.-approved medication from
>> Canada, Europe, Australia, New Zealand and Japan, where drug costs are
>> far lower because of price controls. The measure has attracted
>> bipartisan support from lawmakers, including Sens. Olympia J. Snowe (R-
>> Maine) and John McCain (R-Ariz.).
>>
>> But the pharmaceutical industry -- which has been a key supporter of
>> health-care reform after reaching an agreement with the White House
>> earlier this year -- has responded with a fierce lobbying campaign
>> aimed at killing the proposal, focusing on Democratic senators from
>> states with large drug and research sectors.
>>
>> In addition, Margaret A. Hamburg, commissioner of the Food and Drug
>> Administration, raised safety concerns about the Dorgan amendment in a
>> letter to the Senate, warning that the agency is unable to ensure that
>> such drug imports would not be counterfeited or contaminated. The FDA
>> has cited such concerns for more than a decade, repeatedly rebuffing
>> attempts by Congress to allow prescription drug imports.
>>
>> The dispute traps Obama between his campaign rhetoric and the
>> political realities of health-care reform, which depends in large part
>> on tacit support from drugmakers and other industry groups. Under the
>> earlier agreement with the White House, the pharmaceutical industry
>> agreed to contribute $80 billion toward reform over 10 years in
>> exchange for protection from further cuts.
>>
>> "It's about being a candidate as opposed to being president," said Ken
>> Johnson, senior vice president of the Pharmaceutical Research &
>> Manufacturers of America (PhRMA). "When you become president, you
>> realize that the sound bites don't always work in reality. . . . I
>> think they've looked at the problems now and have concluded there's no
>> way to ensure the safety of medicines reimported into the United
>> States right now."
>>
>> The White House is attempting to strike a balance, expressing approval
>> of the idea to allow drug imports while bowing to the FDA's safety
>> concerns. "The president supports reimportation of safe and effective
>> drugs," White House spokeswoman Linda Douglass said, adding that the
>> FDA "will continue exploring policy options to create a pathway" to
>> allow the purchases.
>>
>> An anticipated vote on Dorgan's amendment was initially blocked on
>> Thursday by Democratic Sen. Thomas R. Carper of Delaware, home to the
>> U.S. headquarters of pharmaceutical company AstraZeneca. Carper backs
>> a different version of the legislation that supporters decry as a
>> poison pill.
>>
>> Carper said in a statement that he shares the FDA's concerns that
>> "Senator Dorgan's amendment could potentially allow unsafe,
>> counterfeited drugs into the United States, contaminating our drug
>> supply. This is a complicated issue that affects people's lives. We
>> should make sure that the FDA says it's safe before we reimport drugs
>> from other countries."
>>
>> McCain complained about the role of PhRMA, saying the powerful group
>> "has been over here lobbying furiously" because the amendment "breaks
>> the agreement that the White House made."
>>
>> AARP, the powerful seniors' group that supports drug importation, has
>> notified senators that it will keep close track of votes on the Dorgan
>> amendment and will use the tally in its rankings of senior-friendly
>> lawmakers. AARP Senior Vice President David Sloane said Friday that
>> the legislation "would create a system for safe, legal importation of
>> prescription drugs from abroad" and would help lower drug costs.
>>
>> The Congressional Budget Office estimated the proposal would save the
>> government $19 billion over the next 10 years, and Dorgan estimated
>> that consumers would save $80 billion more. He pointed to vast price
>> differences in drugs made in the same factories; an equivalent amount
>> of the heartburn medication Nexium, for example, costs $36 in Spain
>> and $424 in the United States, he said.
>>
>> "The pharmaceutical industry wouldn't be able to impose these price
>> increases because then you would have competition," Dorgan said on the
>> Senate floor last week. "Freedom equals competition in my judgment
>> here on this issue."
>>
>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/14/AR2009121401409.html
>
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Portable word processor
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/33253b6904720eef?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 23 2010 12:13 pm
From: "John Weiss"

Dan Birchall wrote:

> artsy6@gmail.com (aesthete8) wrote:
> > I have come to think that I really don't need to be online since I
> > do primarily editing.
> >
> > Any recommendations for a portable word processor?
>
> I used to find these devices interesting, but nowadays your typical
> "portable word processor" looks like a 1980-era "laptop" with a tiny
> 2-3 line LCD display at the top of a keyboard. I think you'd be much
> better off with a general-purpose laptop or even a "netbook" - just
> get a low-powered one with good battery life. Sure, it's going to be
> capaable of going online too, but you don't have to use that
> capability all the time.

I agree. Add OpenOffice (which you'll have to download or get from
someone else), and you have it.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: when plywood isn't plywood - did I just get reamed?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/4d38863eed5257ed?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 23 2010 7:02 pm
From: Ohioguy

We are buying a ~30 year old HUD owned house using the FHA 203k rehab
loan program, which bundles the repair costs into the loan. As part of
this, we had to get everything in writing from the general contractor,
then submit it all to be reviewed. Funds are put into escrow until a
final inspection, when the funds are released to the general contractor
as each of the necessary repairs have been deemed to have been performed
adequately.

Around 3 months ago, I first spoke with the general contractor, and
went over what I wanted done. He tried to convince me to use OSB -
oriented strand board for the roof, but I said no. The current roof was
30 years old, and a bit rotten up near the roof vent. It was only 3/8"
thick, and the shingles were in horrible shape, which was probably why
the plywood was going bad. Anyway, I wanted 3/4" roof grade plywood to
be used, especially when the quotes were about 40% less than what I was
quoted for the plywood back around 2003. (who knew prices were that
cyclical?) I realized I would be paying more for 3/4" thick plywood,
and also for going with plywood instead of OSB, but I didn't care. It
means more to me knowing that we would have a stronger roof in the case
of very high winds or storms.

The general contractor did manage to convince me, after I did some
homework, that ridge vents would probably be the best choice for venting
the attic. Ridge vents run the length of the roof peak - up where the
hottest air gathers. We also did a walkaround, and I pointed out a roof
mounted DirecTV dish that I wanted removed. I've never liked having
screws going down through the shingles, since that just introduces a
place for leaks.

Fast forward to 9 days ago. After several extensions (delays), we
finally closed on the house and got the locks re-keyed. I met with the
general contractor, and gave him a key. I again briefly mentioned that
I wanted him to use 3/4" plywood on the roof. He called on Sunday and
said he thought the crew could get the roof done sometime this week.

3 days ago, on Wednesday, I got a call in the afternoon telling me
that the roof was completed, which was kind of a surprise. I had been
hoping to go up and watch them get started. I went up to the house on
Thursday to take pictures of the roof, and also to do some work on the
basement with my son. As I was taking photos, I immediately noticed
that the DirecTV dish was still up there.

I wondered - did they even replace the old plywood with new? Then I
walked around to the other side, and noticed a full sheet of OSB leaning
against the house.. Oh, no, I thought.

I ran inside, went up to the attic, and took a look. Yes, they used
oriented strand board on the entire roof. Plus, guess what? There was
no ridge vent installed. Instead, they put those rectangular vents in
that stick up from the roof, but you have to saw rectangular holes in
the wood for them.

So, in a nutshell, they didn't do 3 things that the general
contractor had said they would do. The main one, written into the
contract, was using plywood. (the other two were verbal)

I was furious enough at that point that I considered driving right
back home, giving him a call, and telling him he was fired. I felt like
I could no longer trust him to do the rest of the projects properly.

Eventually, I called him late yesterday, and here is what he said.

1) he said he left two messages over the past week regarding the roof on
my answering machine (possible, because our answering machine started
acting up about 10 days ago, and I remember the delete button sticking
twice) So part of this was a telephone communication problem - he says
he called and in his message said he would be doing certain things, and
using certain materials. If I had gotten the message, I would have
known when they were starting the work, and would have been on hand to
say "No way, jose!" to the OSB. As it was, I was told after the work
was finished, and had to discover the discrepancies myself.

2) regarding not using plywood as the written contract says he will do,
he claims that plywood is now a general term that includes both OSB and
PCX, the latter which he says is the technical term for plywood. He is
saying that if I had specified PCX, then I would have gotten what I am
calling plywood. However, he says that since I just said plywood, a
general term, OSB is included in that terminology, and that is why I
ended up with that on my house - since it is now the industry standard
for roofs.

He further claims that OSB now is actually superior to plywood for
roofs, and that it was exactly the same price as the roof grade plywood
I had priced. He is saying that I actually got a longer lasting, more
waterproof, superior roof because he used the OSB.

Frankly, I feel that his claim that there is some confusion about
what the term "plywood" means is a load of crap. I also think his claim
that OSB is superior has no merit. I am wondering if he is simply
saying all of this so that he can defuse the situation, and cover
himself for not following the contract. I seriously doubt that we could
force him to rip off the roofing and redo it with plywood at this point,
so I'm guessing that I'm stuck with the OSB. However, I still wonder if
he got a price break by using OSB instead of plywood, and if he is
pocketing the difference.

However, he is the professional, and he has much more experience than
I do regarding all of this.

I am hoping that some of you out there have some
construction/building experience, and might be able to shed some
educated light on the situation.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 23 2010 8:54 pm
From: Al

On Jan 23, 10:02 pm, Ohioguy <n...@none.net> wrote:
> We are buying a ~30 year old HUD owned house using the FHA 203k rehab
> loan program, which bundles the repair costs into the loan. As part of
> this, we had to get everything in writing from the general contractor,
> then submit it all to be reviewed. Funds are put into escrow until a
> final inspection, when the funds are released to the general contractor
> as each of the necessary repairs have been deemed to have been performed
> adequately.
>
> Around 3 months ago, I first spoke with the general contractor, and
> went over what I wanted done. He tried to convince me to use OSB -
> oriented strand board for the roof, but I said no. The current roof was
> 30 years old, and a bit rotten up near the roof vent. It was only 3/8"
> thick, and the shingles were in horrible shape, which was probably why
> the plywood was going bad. Anyway, I wanted 3/4" roof grade plywood to
> be used, especially when the quotes were about 40% less than what I was
> quoted for the plywood back around 2003. (who knew prices were that
> cyclical?) I realized I would be paying more for 3/4" thick plywood,
> and also for going with plywood instead of OSB, but I didn't care. It
> means more to me knowing that we would have a stronger roof in the case
> of very high winds or storms.
>
> The general contractor did manage to convince me, after I did some
> homework, that ridge vents would probably be the best choice for venting
> the attic. Ridge vents run the length of the roof peak - up where the
> hottest air gathers. We also did a walkaround, and I pointed out a roof
> mounted DirecTV dish that I wanted removed. I've never liked having
> screws going down through the shingles, since that just introduces a
> place for leaks.
>
> Fast forward to 9 days ago. After several extensions (delays), we
> finally closed on the house and got the locks re-keyed. I met with the
> general contractor, and gave him a key. I again briefly mentioned that
> I wanted him to use 3/4" plywood on the roof. He called on Sunday and
> said he thought the crew could get the roof done sometime this week.
>
> 3 days ago, on Wednesday, I got a call in the afternoon telling me
> that the roof was completed, which was kind of a surprise. I had been
> hoping to go up and watch them get started. I went up to the house on
> Thursday to take pictures of the roof, and also to do some work on the
> basement with my son. As I was taking photos, I immediately noticed
> that the DirecTV dish was still up there.
>
> I wondered - did they even replace the old plywood with new? Then I
> walked around to the other side, and noticed a full sheet of OSB leaning
> against the house.. Oh, no, I thought.
>
> I ran inside, went up to the attic, and took a look. Yes, they used
> oriented strand board on the entire roof. Plus, guess what? There was
> no ridge vent installed. Instead, they put those rectangular vents in
> that stick up from the roof, but you have to saw rectangular holes in
> the wood for them.
>
> So, in a nutshell, they didn't do 3 things that the general
> contractor had said they would do. The main one, written into the
> contract, was using plywood. (the other two were verbal)
>
> I was furious enough at that point that I considered driving right
> back home, giving him a call, and telling him he was fired. I felt like
> I could no longer trust him to do the rest of the projects properly.
>
> Eventually, I called him late yesterday, and here is what he said.
>
> 1) he said he left two messages over the past week regarding the roof on
> my answering machine (possible, because our answering machine started
> acting up about 10 days ago, and I remember the delete button sticking
> twice) So part of this was a telephone communication problem - he says
> he called and in his message said he would be doing certain things, and
> using certain materials. If I had gotten the message, I would have
> known when they were starting the work, and would have been on hand to
> say "No way, jose!" to the OSB. As it was, I was told after the work
> was finished, and had to discover the discrepancies myself.
>
> 2) regarding not using plywood as the written contract says he will do,
> he claims that plywood is now a general term that includes both OSB and
> PCX, the latter which he says is the technical term for plywood. He is
> saying that if I had specified PCX, then I would have gotten what I am
> calling plywood. However, he says that since I just said plywood, a
> general term, OSB is included in that terminology, and that is why I
> ended up with that on my house - since it is now the industry standard
> for roofs.
>
> He further claims that OSB now is actually superior to plywood for
> roofs, and that it was exactly the same price as the roof grade plywood
> I had priced. He is saying that I actually got a longer lasting, more
> waterproof, superior roof because he used the OSB.
>
> Frankly, I feel that his claim that there is some confusion about
> what the term "plywood" means is a load of crap. I also think his claim
> that OSB is superior has no merit. I am wondering if he is simply
> saying all of this so that he can defuse the situation, and cover
> himself for not following the contract. I seriously doubt that we could
> force him to rip off the roofing and redo it with plywood at this point,
> so I'm guessing that I'm stuck with the OSB. However, I still wonder if
> he got a price break by using OSB instead of plywood, and if he is
> pocketing the difference.
>
> However, he is the professional, and he has much more experience than
> I do regarding all of this.
>
> I am hoping that some of you out there have some
> construction/building experience, and might be able to shed some
> educated light on the situation.

Almost certainly he got a price break on OSB instead of plywood. That
and availability is why he did it. Also, OSB is much more user
friendly for the installers. That last feature can make for a better
quality job too. Still, I feel your pain in not getting what you asked
for. I had two roofs removed from a house and the third finally done
the way I agreed to for a third party. (This was insurance work and
the contractor wanted to maintain his status with State Farm by not
screwing customers.)

Ridge vents were the rage of the industry when they first came out.
Since then, studies have shown that many do not perform as well in the
long term due to plugging of the small vents with debris. Many
contractors have gone back to the tried and true pot vents. I'd
probably let that item fly.

Why was the TV dish still there? Apparently they only PATCHED the roof
and figured they could do it while you were looking the other way.
Pretty stupid of them to leave the dish installed as evidence. Or did
they re-install the dish?

I assume you got all these specs in writing to begin with. Changes
should be in writing as well. I don't buy the story about leaving you
a message and going with whatever the hell he wanted to do.

Bottom line: I would inspect that roof from every angle, particularly
from the possibility that the entire deck was not replaced as
specified. If you can verify that, I personally would demand a tear-
off and replacement. Actually, I'd try for some release from payment
and have the work done properly. My niece had a similar problem with a
roof job contracted through Lowes two years ago. It was a real joke
with broken new shingles and an incorrect nail pattern. After much
wrangling, Lowes ate about $6,000 and the niece had a quality job done
for about $4,500. It seems that roofing has become as sleazy as
transmission rebuilding because the flaws are so easily hidden.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Any wheels bad, two legs good
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3ce9d8165921db9e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 23 2010 8:41 pm
From: TheTibetanMonkey showing-the-path-of-enlightenment-in-the-jungle

On Jan 22, 10:37 pm, Les Cargill <lcargil...@comcast.net> wrote:
> TheTibetanMonkey showing-the-path-of-enlightenment-in-the-jungle wrote:
> > On Jan 22, 12:16 pm, "Sla#s" <p...@slatts.net> wrote:
> >> TheTibetanMonkey showing-the-path-of-enlightenment-in-the-jungle wrote:
>
> >> <SNIP>
>
> >>> Two legs good, four legs bad!
> >>> We cyclist say,
> >>> Two wheels good, four wheels bad!
> >> We unicyclists say!
>
> >> Two wheel bad, one wheel good!
>
> >> Slatts
>
> > I can't accept that. Pretty soon the pedestrians will be saying, "any
> > wheels bad, two legs good."
>
> Well, don't forget the amputees - "No legs good!" Just taking
> it to its logical conclusion...
>
> As you were.

In a world populated by snakes...

Going back to square one: TWO LEGS OR TWO WHEELS GOOD, everything else
bad.

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