http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en
misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* Why I didn't buy TurboTax AGAIN this year - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/92f5d113853839d2?hl=en
* Do you know what would happen if you gave a bunch of bananas to a bunch of
monkeys? - 10 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/05565b0b8312402c?hl=en
* What was the point of Jesus riding an ass, looking like an ass? - 3 messages,
2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f875873bd78921b8?hl=en
* Robert Reich says we are 11,000,000+ jobs behind in economy,article link - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3b72dfa8d004e7b1?hl=en
* Doctor getting kickbacks? - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/faff268312f0b359?hl=en
* Some benefits after returning to U.S.A - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c03b4cbcbdb81eac?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why I didn't buy TurboTax AGAIN this year
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/92f5d113853839d2?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 15 2010 10:28 pm
From: root
hchickpea@hotmail.com <hchickpea@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 20:44:24 -0700, The Real Bev
><bashley101+es@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On 04/13/2010 08:32 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>>
>>> I used to think Intuit was a good company producing a good product. Now
>>> they're just one more company that deserves a trip down the drain.
>>
>>Addendum: Not a single one of the 'Contact Us' links worked. Not email, not
>>chat, not list-of-phone-numbers. They weren't even LINKS for Chrissake, just
>>empty 'click here' boxes.
>
> Ah yes. That seems to be more common these days. Pageplus cellular
> is doing much the same. Companies just don't want to be bothered.
Just like old times seeing you and TRB posting Harry.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 16 2010 7:40 pm
From: JohnDoe@BadISP.org
Steve Daniels <sdaniels@gorge.net> wrote:
>On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 20:32:45 -0700, against all advice, something
>compelled The Real Bev <bashley101+es@gmail.com>, to say:
>
>> I used to think Intuit was a good company producing a good product. Now
>> they're just one more company that deserves a trip down the drain.
>I used these guys:
>https://www.taxactonline.com/
Me too. Every year I pirated Tax Cut or Turbo Tax (sometimes both)
from the Russians and this year wasn't any different. Lo and behold
when I came to use it I found that they no longer support Win2K!
Bummer! But it turns out TaxAct does and for $20 (including state)
it's not worth pirating.
>I spent $33 to file on line, but it's my fault for
>procrastinating so long. They remembered my form data from last
>year, and the site was relatively easy to navigate.
Yeah well I don't file on line (I suppose you mean e-file). Don't
trust it. Paper was good enough for the founding fathers so it's good
enough for me.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Do you know what would happen if you gave a bunch of bananas to a bunch
of monkeys?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/05565b0b8312402c?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 16 2010 4:05 am
From: Tom Sherman °_°
On 4/15/2010 10:23 PM, Don Klipstein wrote:
> In article<3b773$4bc79bd8$d8102c96$27352@KNOLOGY.NET>, Edward Dolan wrote:
>>
>> "TibetanMonkey, the-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit"<nolionnoproblem@yahoo.com>
>> wrote in message
>> news:85efa486-6bf9-4059-ae3f-c4f9ca14d0c0@z7g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>> On Apr 15, 6:04 pm, "Edward Dolan"<edo...@iw.net> wrote:
>>> "TibetanMonkey, the-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit"
>>> <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com>
>>> wrote in
>>> messagenews:f88274da-a513-49f2-acac-49f6569bd78f@q23g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Apr 15, 3:56 pm, "Edward Dolan"<edo...@iw.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Capitalists are abstract thinkers. Trust me on this, they do not give a
>>>> damn
>>>> about you and me. Yes, they are concerned with profit, but that is a
>>>> million
>>>> times better than those god damn fucking socialist bastards who are only
>>>> concerned with power and control over people.
>>>
>>> Where do Holland or Denmark fall in those categories? How about
>>> Canada?
>>>
>>>> They are social welfare states which fall far short of socialism. They
>>>> depend on capitalists to lay the golden eggs.
>>>
>>> I think you are as clueless as a monkey.
>>
>> You still haven't answered my question, big monkey.
>>
>> Is Canada Stalinist, Maoist or what?
>>
>>>>> Do you not understand plain English? I have told you that they are all
>>>>> welfare states, NOT socialism.
>
> Dear Ed the Great,
>
> It appears to me that you are adding quotation symbols (multiply
> in one case appearing above) to lines of text that are of your doing, as
> opposed to lines of text that you are quoting back in the process of
> responding to them (where adding a quotation symbol per line belongs).
>
> That could cause some confusion.
>
Mr. Ed the Grate is using Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005, which
messes up some replies. However, Mr. Ed Dolan refuses to fix the problem.
--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
"ever get suspicious about chain saw oil attracting wood dust? generally
mucking
up after two cuts? try dumping hot oil into a container just right sized for
inserting the running blade on the job. rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr..... plus
750 rpm!"
- gene daniels
== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 16 2010 6:47 am
From: "TibetanMonkey, Originator of the Banana Kung-Fu"
On Apr 16, 9:30 am, Peter Franks <n...@none.com> wrote:
> TibetanMonkey, the-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit wrote:
> > The Banana Revolution is all about FREEDOM!
>
> Well then you had better dump socialism.
I wished I could like the law of the jungle (aka capitalism), but I'm
too frugal and smart for that. I also don't believe in bureaucratic
solutions, so that makes me a bad socialist.
In other words, I'm all for having choices except letting the worst
aspects of capitalism run its course: HOMELESSNESS, SUV'S, LACK OF
ROOM FOR ALTERNATIVE VEHICLES (bicycles & EVs), WAR, GATED
COMMUNITIES, WHOLE MANIPULATION BY POLITICIANS AND RELIGIOUS LIARS,
etc.
== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 16 2010 7:05 am
From: "TibetanMonkey, Originator of the Banana Kung-Fu"
On Apr 16, 9:05 am, DanP <dan.pe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 15 Apr, 06:35, "TibetanMonkey, the-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit"
>
>
>
> <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > No, I don't know either, but we can make some educated guesses by
> > looking at their closest cousins --us.
>
> > What will happen is that some monkeys will try to eat morebananas--
> > the lion's share-- while others go hungry. Some call it "human
> > nature," but I bet monkeys act like that too.
>
> > So, say we have 10bananasfor 10 monkeys. Someone will eat 4, another
> > 2, and so on. If they eat 1 banana each, they would be socialist. But
> > if they don't, they would be Republican.
>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> > THE WISE TIBETAN MONKEY SAYS
>
> > "Monkeys and humans are such funny animals"
>
> >http://webspawner.com/users/BANANAREVOLUTION
>
> At the moment I am having 3bananasa day. If you promise me 4 I will
> join your revolution.
>
> The only good revolution was the industrial revolution.
>
> DanP
Besides a steady supply of bananas, I can promise to liberate you from
the cage (vehicle, home, gated community) and give you room for your
bikes and alternative vehicles.
I don't think there's a need to get all defensive about it when we can
set up something like... Key West. Have you been there?
== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 16 2010 8:05 am
From: "TibetanMonkey, the-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit"
On Apr 16, 6:53 am, JIMMIE <jimmi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Not quite what will happen, First they will destroy most of them while
> they are fighting. Maybe one monkey would get a banana and then he
> will have to guard the squish mess left on the ground. Also not unlike
> us.
>
> Jimmie
Maybe we are introducing the problem by giving them all the bananas at
once, and let them to figure it out.
It's like when you give a loan to an African country and some monkey
in government keeps the dough.
== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 16 2010 8:23 am
From: "TibetanMonkey, the-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit"
On Apr 16, 7:05 am, "TibetanMonkey, Originator of the Banana Kung-Fu"
<comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Apr 16, 9:05 am, DanP <dan.pe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 15 Apr, 06:35, "TibetanMonkey, the-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit"
>
> > <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > No, I don't know either, but we can make some educated guesses by
> > > looking at their closest cousins --us.
>
> > > What will happen is that some monkeys will try to eat morebananas--
> > > the lion's share-- while others go hungry. Some call it "human
> > > nature," but I bet monkeys act like that too.
>
> > > So, say we have 10bananasfor 10 monkeys. Someone will eat 4, another
> > > 2, and so on. If they eat 1 banana each, they would be socialist. But
> > > if they don't, they would be Republican.
>
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> > > THE WISE TIBETAN MONKEY SAYS
>
> > > "Monkeys and humans are such funny animals"
>
> > >http://webspawner.com/users/BANANAREVOLUTION
>
> > At the moment I am having 3bananasa day. If you promise me 4 I will
> > join your revolution.
>
> > The only good revolution was the industrial revolution.
>
> > DanP
>
> Besides a steady supply of bananas, I can promise to liberate you from
> the cage (vehicle, home, gated community) and give you room for your
> bikes and alternative vehicles.
>
> I don't think there's a need to get all defensive about it when we can
> set up something like... Key West. Have you been there?
One of the great proposals of the revolution (the Banana Revolution)
is to allow people to ride bike with flip flops (Key West style if you
will) peacefully taking the lane, and having the cars pass on the
other lanes, so the blissful state of mind of the rider is not
disturbed. Yes, you may take some drink in the bottle cage, and it's
not DUI.
That's what I call freedom.
== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 16 2010 11:03 am
From: "TibetanMonkey, Originator of the Banana Kung-Fu"
On Apr 16, 9:44 am, Brent <tetraethylleadREMOVET...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 2010-04-16, Phlip <phlip2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Apr 16, 6:57 am, "TibetanMonkey, the-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit"
> ><comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> > Uh, actually, if u are referring to great apes, they would start
> >> > trading bananas for sex.
>
> >> That's true. Actually all those displays of power among us (SUVs,
> >> motorboats, money to burn) are also used to mate with the most
> >> desirable females around.
>
> > And the problem with that would be..?
>
> Nothing if the desire of the human race is to be a bunch of (savage)
> tool using apes.
We have come a long way, from tools to survive to tools to control and
destroy.
From this...
To this...
http://www.marketingshift.com/images/internationalSUV-7300cxt.gif
== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 16 2010 11:55 am
From: "TibetanMonkey, Originator of the Banana Kung-Fu"
Now we may go into phase II of the experiments in which we will
further tease the monkeys into conflict.
Now some monkeys get bananas and some peanuts. A clear caste emerges
in which the privileged monkeys get bananas and other exquisite
fruits, protecting them from the worse of the jungle, while the ones
getting the peanuts must compete with each other for peanuts and other
symbols of status created by the better monkeys.
That would be quite a mind tease, wouldn't it?
== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 16 2010 3:32 pm
From: "TibetanMonkey, Originator of the Banana Kung-Fu"
On Apr 16, 12:47 pm, DanP <dan.pe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 16 Apr, 15:04, "TibetanMonkey, the-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit"
>
>
>
> <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Apr 16, 9:05 am, DanP <dan.pe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On 15 Apr, 06:35, "TibetanMonkey, the-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit"
>
> > > <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > No, I don't know either, but we can make some educated guesses by
> > > > looking at their closest cousins --us.
>
> > > > What will happen is that some monkeys will try to eat morebananas--
> > > > the lion's share-- while others go hungry. Some call it "human
> > > > nature," but I bet monkeys act like that too.
>
> > > > So, say we have 10bananasfor 10 monkeys. Someone will eat 4, another
> > > > 2, and so on. If they eat 1 banana each, they would be socialist. But
> > > > if they don't, they would be Republican.
>
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> > > > THE WISE TIBETAN MONKEY SAYS
>
> > > > "Monkeys and humans are such funny animals"
>
> > > >http://webspawner.com/users/BANANAREVOLUTION
>
> > > At the moment I am having 3bananasa day. If you promise me 4 I will
> > > join your revolution.
>
> > > The only good revolution was the industrial revolution.
>
> > > DanP
>
> > Besides a steady supply of bananas, I can promise to liberate you from
> > the cage (vehicle, home, gated community) and give you room for your
> > bikes and alternative vehicles.
>
> > I don't think there's a need to get all defensive about it when we can
> > set up something like... Key West. Have you been there?
>
> I am a different kind of monkey. Cars if the way forward.
>
> DanP
I say OPTIONS is the way to go forward: bicycles, scooters, EVs
(little ones aka golf carts) for local use, then public
transportation, including fast trains, and finally cars.
== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 16 2010 4:53 pm
From: "TibetanMonkey, the-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit"
Nothing like the good old days of the horses and the bikes...
On Apr 16, 4:42 pm, "Frank Berger" <frank.d.ber...@dal.frb.org> wrote:
> > Horse manure was a problem before the invention of the automobile.
>
> Still is.
I would expect the roads to have been more peaceful when everybody
rode a horse. Even the bike had little to fear other than slipping on
manure.
Nowadays, an SUV simply crushes you.
== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 16 2010 5:01 pm
From: "TibetanMonkey, the-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit"
On Apr 16, 4:53 pm, in2dadark <in2dad...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I'll give you that. SUV's suck. Show me a soccer mom who has to tail
> gate and intimidate in one of these and I'll show you a female with a
> broken vibrator.
A soccer mom with a broken vibrator and an SUV is a dangerous
combination.
I think they get testosterone rushes from driving such vehicles and
want to bite.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: What was the point of Jesus riding an ass, looking like an ass?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f875873bd78921b8?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 16 2010 4:07 am
From: Tom Sherman °_°
On 4/14/2010 12:18 AM, Don Klipstein wrote:
> In<d5a655ce-461b-4392-9bac-b04a346d68c7@u34g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>,
> TibetanMonkey, Originator of the Banana Kung-Fu wrote:
>
>> I must confess that Jesus riding a British classic bicycle would have
>> commanded my respect, but him riding an ass!?
>>
>> On Apr 12, 10:22 pm, kenny<kmacad...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> hey i'm new to the group and as i browsed through the recent
>>> discussions i thought i'd top this one off with a funny picture from
>>> a kid's christian coloring book....
>>>
>>> http://bobhockey.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/jesus_riding_dinosaur1.jpg
>>
>> Jesus! He sure would have impressed more people by riding a dinosaur
>> than by riding an ass.
>>
>> And then what was the point of him riding an ass, looking like an ass?
>>
>> You know what I think? THEY ARE COMPULSIVE LIARS!
>
> What makes one think that Jesus should have ridden a dinosaur around
> 2,000 years ago?
>
> Only fundamentalists who insist that the earth is only something like
> 6,000 years old claim that known dinosaurs, or even whatever the bones
> said to be from dinosaurs "actually" came from, existed more recently than
> 63-65 million years ago!
>
Some dinosaurs with feathers survived, and their descendants are still
with us.
--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 16 2010 11:33 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)
In <d74511a6-2559-4d60-a616-f62d07066e79@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>,
TibetanMonkey, Originator of the Banana Kung-Fu wrote:
>On Apr 15, 11:03 pm, d...@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:
(In short, stuff about my prospects of me having achieved a ticket to
heaven, and that it may be a round-trip one that may require me to be
reincarnated.)
>You are safe, I think. We can only pray we can ride bikes in Heaven
>with all peace of mind.
>
>It's kind of hellish here.
One thing I can think of: What happens if I get to Heaven? Do I get
issued a harp, or for that matter any other musical instrument?
And then, what would I do with it?
I suspect that the way I suspect things work in Heaven, I can use a
musical instrument as some sort of aircraft that I can drive in a manner
like a flying motorcycle, and not needing fuel, other than possibly
caloric energy from heavenly food that I have some chance of using
telekinetically in Heaven. (If it flies and gets to land on clouds,
then there is less need for such a vehicle to actually need wheels.)
And, if I had to go to heaven anytime soon, I would probably drive such
a thing like a bicycle messenger.
And should I not be able to use a musical instrument as a witch's broom,
by some accounts I would have wings. I would surely make use of those!
Unless, I get a musical instrument and don't get to fly and then play
the darn thing. The problem for me there is that I have a bit of an
obsession with one title by one band, resulting in major part from a very
personally touching spectacular weather event doing its thing at a highly
opportune single minute of one year.
(June 26th, 1988, in midtown Manhattan, it rained from 5 AM to 11:58 AM.
Then, the clouds moved out fast like a carpet being yanked out of the sky.
At 11:59 and 30 seconds, the sky had just become majority clear and blue
and the sun came out. At that moment, I had my hands on one of the
handles of a float in a major parade that was scheduled to start moving at
noon.)
My little musical obsession is with a title that from its relevant
artist has many versions, one of which has over 4 minutes of instrumental-
only content despite being of the "Hi-NRG" gendre (or subgendre of disco?),
despite Hi-NRG normally having vocals. I consider that piece of
instrumental dance music to be gorgeous and beautiful even with its disco
beat, and to be the masterpiece by what I consider to be at least somewhat
of a "musical genious" of a producer.
That is one specific version of that title, and the version name here is
"New York Mix". That one experienced a mutation in my mind into becoming
"Easter music", with brass, organ, a tympani drum and orchestral strings
and no "disco beat".
Should I go to heaven and get a musical instrument, there is one thing I
fear could hit me: I could get voted out, or at least become unpopular
there. As in, "You, Don, may get tired of 'Relax' by Frankie Goes to
Hollywood in 50,000 years, and most others here are likely to get tired of
that 49,999 years, 12 months and at least 2 weeks sooner than that!"
(Leading to, "You need to live at least one more life on Earth and
expend your unheavenly insane personal energy!" Maybe same fate if I fly
around like a bicycle messenger with a flying motorcycle or with wings
instead!)
- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 16 2010 11:52 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)
In article <hq9gdq$l0k$2@news.eternal-september.org>, Tom Sherman °_° wrote:
>On 4/14/2010 12:18 AM, Don Klipstein wrote:
<In short, expressing strong skepticism of dinosaurs existing and being
alive much more recently than 63-65 million years ago>
>Some dinosaurs with feathers survived, and their descendants are still
>with us.
Can you cite what dinosaurs survived to be still with us, along with
citing that such animals are considered dinosaurs as opposed to some sort
of birds or a subclass/super-order/order of mammals (monotremes)?
(It appears to me that dinosaurs were either a bird-ish-like subclass of
reptiles, or otherwise achieving a "class" of its own in the chordate
phylum of the animal kingdom.)
(Wikipedia does mention that there is one "clade" of animals that
evolved directly from dinosaurs, from specifically "theropod" dinosaurs,
and that is the "class" of birds.)
(It does appear to me that mammals evolved from birds, due to existence
of somewhat-birdlike mammals in Australia where evolution appears to me to
have often progressed more slowly while Australia was an "island" isolated
from other continents that Australia longer-ago was connected to with land
routes.)
- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Robert Reich says we are 11,000,000+ jobs behind in economy,article
link
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3b72dfa8d004e7b1?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 16 2010 5:47 am
From: matt
On Apr 15, 6:36 am, seeker <mothman20052...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> http://www.truthout.org/the-future-american-jobs58509
Meantime, in 2009 Uncle Suckemoff issued over 1 million work permits
for foreign workers!!
Best thing would be total economic collapse then a total rebuild. Only
fools see any
long-term usefullness for our existing system.
MATT
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Doctor getting kickbacks?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/faff268312f0b359?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 16 2010 9:56 am
From: "addressofdaday
Roy <aa4re@aa4re.ampr.org> wrote in news:h-6dnZ0Ub9xb_
1rWnZ2dnUVZ_tadnZ2d@posted.southvalleyinternet:
> On 4/14/2010 2:56 PM, peewee wrote:
>> I am contemplating surgery. I have a surgeon that uses one
of
>> the outpatient surgery centers to do his work and he
>> typically does thousands of the same operation a year at
this
>> same place.
>>
>> I have reason to think he maybe have a financial interest
if
>> not outright getting kickbacks from this surgery center
and
>> he is very closed about disclosing costs associated with
>> surgery.
>>
>> Is there a way, short of taking him to court that I can
>> determine if he has a financial interest in this center
where
>> he does his cutting?
>
> It varies by state. Some states require the doctor to tell
you if he
> holds a financial interest in the surgery center.
>
> Kickbacks are usually illegal. Holding a financial
interest in the
> facility is not.
>
> You might ask the doctor what his second choice of location
for the
> surgery is.
>
"h" and "Bill" are the same person posting under different
IDs-look at their news reader clients and other info.
Most of the replies, except yours, are most likely people in
the medical field or those representing them.
It is illegal not to disclose a financial interest in a third
party facility in my state. Any doctor who does this is
unprofessional and more a businessman than a doctor.
The fact that a doctor will not disclose costs is sufficient
in my opinion to deny him a license to practice medicine.
These are people, not Gods, they are not allowed to play
under a different set of rules than the rest of us. Not
disclosing costs is dishonest, plain and simple.
== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 16 2010 5:10 pm
From: Samantha Hill
"addressofdaday <nospam@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid>" wrote:
>
> The fact that a doctor will not disclose costs is sufficient
> in my opinion to deny him a license to practice medicine.
> These are people, not Gods, they are not allowed to play
> under a different set of rules than the rest of us. Not
> disclosing costs is dishonest, plain and simple.
Well, as someone who has worked in the medical field for 18 years, how
much it costs truly depends on what insurance the patient has, assuming
that the patient wants to know how much it will cost him/her. And even
if the insurance company gives you an estimate of the costs up-front,
that doesn't mean that even if they approve the surgery they won't come
back after the fact when you submit the claim for it and say, "Sorry,
we're not paying for that," and there is not a whole bunch the doc can
do except appeal the claim denial and see if he can convince the
insurance company to pay for it -- which, if they won't, will mean that
the patient now will have to pay a lot more to cover what the insurance
company reneged on.
== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 16 2010 7:56 pm
From: JohnDoe@BadISP.org
Samantha Hill <samhill@samhillsonic.net> wrote:
>"addressofdaday <nospam@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid>" wrote:
>>
>> The fact that a doctor will not disclose costs is sufficient
>> in my opinion to deny him a license to practice medicine.
>> These are people, not Gods, they are not allowed to play
>> under a different set of rules than the rest of us. Not
>> disclosing costs is dishonest, plain and simple.
>
>Well, as someone who has worked in the medical field for 18 years, how
>much it costs truly depends on what insurance the patient has, assuming
>that the patient wants to know how much it will cost him/her. And even
>if the insurance company gives you an estimate of the costs up-front,
>that doesn't mean that even if they approve the surgery they won't come
>back after the fact when you submit the claim for it and say, "Sorry,
>we're not paying for that," and there is not a whole bunch the doc can
>do except appeal the claim denial and see if he can convince the
>insurance company to pay for it -- which, if they won't, will mean that
>the patient now will have to pay a lot more to cover what the insurance
>company reneged on.
You're probably correct and this is one of the things the recent
health care reform should have corrected but probably didn't. It's
disgraceful and really not understandable why the courts won't
intervene and stop these practices. If you ask for your car to be
repaired and the garage gives you a quote that's the maximum they can
collect. Why should the human/doctor be any different?
The MD should provide a quote in writing after asking the insurance
company. If later on they renege (or so he says) he (the MD) eats it!
BTW that's how it works for my dentist. He says (say) he's got to put
in a crown at [tooth number]; he sends all the paperwork and x-rays to
the insurance company and they approve in advance in writing telling
him how much he has to collect from me (the customer). He says he's
never had a problem with the insurance company not paying later on and
if they didn't he would consider that between him and them, nothing he
could recharge to the customer.
== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 16 2010 11:04 pm
From: Samantha Hill
JohnDoe@BadISP.org wrote:
>
> You're probably correct and this is one of the things the recent
> health care reform should have corrected but probably didn't.
Probably not, because I think the insurance companies had a lot of
input, and the insurance
> It's
> disgraceful and really not understandable why the courts won't
> intervene and stop these practices. If you ask for your car to be
> repaired and the garage gives you a quote that's the maximum they can
> collect. Why should the human/doctor be any different?
Oh, my doc could absolutely give fixed quotes for cash prices for office
visits and procedures. It's what the patient ends up paying after
insurance is no guarantee. And I doubt that your local mechanic ever
has to tell you what you will end up paying after your insurance company
pays. Not only that, but a car has a finite and constantly decreasing
value. Can you see some insurance company saying, "I'm sorry, you have
maxed out your lifetime benefits for health care and we are 'totalling'
you. We will settle your case for $$ and you will have to take care of
any further medical costs out of your pocket for the rest of your life;
alternatively, if you present to the local euthanasia center for
disposal and provide proof, you can get a higher figure for being
totalled and disposed of." That sounds pretty immoral and intolerable
to me. And that is why health insurance is so different than medical
insurance.
Now, if health insurance worked like car insurance, then the patient
would have to pay the bill and then be reimbursed by the insurance
company, or the insurance company would have a fixed amount they would
pay and they could pay it to the insurance company no questions asked.
Unfortunately, the doc's office is not allowed to bill the patient until
he has first billed the primary insurance, then after the primary
insurance has paid he has to bill any secondary insurance (and if the
patient messed up on giving the doc's office the proper insurance, that
gets all messed up) Auto insurance sure doesn't work that way.
> The MD should provide a quote in writing after asking the insurance
> company. If later on they renege (or so he says) he (the MD) eats it!
Actually, I think that if the insurance company says, "We will authorize
this procedure and pay $$$ as per our contracted rate," then they should
be made to pay it. Why should the doctor suffer because the insurance
company changed its mind? He/she shouldn't any more than you should
have to work for a week at no pay because your boss forgot to set aside
the money for payroll.
> BTW that's how it works for my dentist. He says (say) he's got to put
> in a crown at [tooth number]; he sends all the paperwork and x-rays to
> the insurance company and they approve in advance in writing telling
> him how much he has to collect from me (the customer). He says he's
> never had a problem with the insurance company not paying later on and
> if they didn't he would consider that between him and them, nothing he
> could recharge to the customer.
The problem is that getting a crown is a small cost compared to medical
care and some procedures and surgeries that need to be done to treat
diseases, not to mention the fact that the doctor probably doesn't do a
crown in a hospital or in an ambulatory surgery center with their own
expenses. A half-million dollar organ transplant compared to a
thousand-dollar crown, you know? Apart from that, there are far fewer
people with a sense of entitlement about dental insurance than about
medical insurance.
I think that if the insurance companies dealt directly with the patients
and just reimbursed the patients for allowable costs instead of the
doctors having to fight with them about getting paid, then it wouldn't
be quite such a tangled mess for anybody.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Some benefits after returning to U.S.A
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c03b4cbcbdb81eac?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 16 2010 7:41 pm
From: Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley
On Apr 15, 10:06 am, "Lawrence Akutagawa" <lakuNOS...@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
> he not having made any
> contributions to a government plan
You don't know that for a fact - the original post was not that
specific.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 16 2010 11:05 pm
From: "Lawrence Akutagawa"
"Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley" <cowartmisc1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3f9217cb-303c-47b3-9f29-763d4b1a9c11@z6g2000yqz.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 15, 10:06 am, "Lawrence Akutagawa" <lakuNOS...@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
> he not having made any
> contributions to a government plan
You don't know that for a fact - the original post was not that
specific.
******
Of course not. You are right. I do not know for a fact. On the other
hand, how do you interpret
"...he did not contribute to any pension schemes..."
"Bearing in mind he has spent nearly all his working life working outside of
the U.S.A., and has made no pension contributions..."
To clarify the situation, perhaps the original poster can make precisely
clear whether the individual concerned did make contributions to a
government plan. And if there were indeed such contributions, then the
original poster can perhaps also clarify those two statements I quoted from
the original post.
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