Frugal Living: misc.consumers.frugal-living - 20 new messages in 8 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hey driver, do you know why cyclists hate you?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/690b6f16a532be81?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 25 2010 11:38 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In <4b69200a-6e31-4419-8b7c-dc8d1027ff08@h13g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
His Highness the TibetanMonkey & the Spirits of the Jungle wrote:
>On 9/25, 6:01 pm, Patricia Martin Steward <pats...@noteranews.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 25 Sep 2010 13:45:47 -0700 (PDT), "His Highness the
>> TibetanMonkey" <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>5. Cyclists who ride against traffic in the bike lane
>>>For one, it's against the law, and creates a dilemma for fellow riders
>>>who are obeying the rules. It's not fun to problem solve under three
>>>seconds. Besides, if the unfortunate happens, and you do get hit by a
>>>car on the wrong side, it's your fault. Don't ruin it for the rest of us.
>>
>> 6. Cyclists who don't yield to a pedestrian in a crosswalk, like the
>> moron who nearly ran into me yesterday as I was crossing the street.
>>
>> 7. Cyclists who think red lights don't pertain to them.
>
>I totally agree with #6, but #7 are OK if they don't threaten
>pedestrians. Mostly they are mowed down by cars.

I propose some practice of some of Philadelphia's law enforcement
officers:

Don't bitch out cyclists for running red lights if the cyclists first
yield to, stopping if necessary, to everyone who has a green light or
walk signal, both vehicle and pedestrian.

And go by the "Golden Rule" - do unto others as you would have them do
unto you. Especially as considered by someone who is a bigtime cyclist,
but is also often a pedestrian and further also owns a car and drives it
about 40% as much as driving his motorless 2-wheel street-legal vehicle
that has 2 pedals for propulsion from carb-burning fat-burning power.

Which means, don't get in the way of those with green light or walk
signal, don't force stopping/slowdown/evasive-action by those with
green light or walk signal, and don't startle those taking right-of-way
that you have to yield by yielding merely by inches to a couple feet or
half a second or less.
--
- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 26 2010 12:05 am
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In <pussnboots.4hvsu8@no-mx.lewis-county=dot=org.null>, pussnboots wrote:

How about commentary from another cyclist?

>K, cyclist, I'll tell you why I hate you---
>
>You don't merge with traffic

I do, and I push my fellow cyclists to yield to those that the law
requires yielding to, by safe and comfortable margin, in return for
law enforcement officers to not "bitch out" those cyclists who do this
while falling short of stopping when/where the law requires stopping.

(Heck, I see law enforcement practice of not ticketing cars for merely
slowing to "safe speed" and yielding to those they have to yield to when
approaching stop signs in a USA state where the law requires "completely
stopping" for stop signs.)

>You don't give the right of way, but always expect it for yourself--your
>not a sailboat-your self-powered!

On the other hand, I go by "The Golden Rule" on the road, whether I am
driving a human-powered 2-wheel vehicle or a 4-wheeled "cage" that has a
motor! As in, do unto others as whoever in question would want to do
likewise, and not change how I want the game played by changing vehicles!

>You don't ever stay in your own lane

I normally do. The main exception for me is getting around a car
that is double-parked within a block, often within 150 feet, of a space to
pull into, to the right of traffic lanes including any bike lanes.
Sometimes, I am even swerving around a car double-parked against a space
that the stopped car in question is free including legally free to pull
into. And I mean stopping for loading/unloading purposes as opposed to
for a red light.

>And when out riding your bike to save the enviorment, you act as if you
>don't have a gasoline powered car at home--so much better than the rest
>of us.

I own and pay insurance on a gasoline-powered 4-wheeled "cage" that
I drive around 1/3 to 40% as much as I drive 2-wheeled vehicles motored
by my body via pedals.

>One last thing, and this is a cheap shot....your workout clothes SUCK!

I cycle for my cycling "day job" in my work clothes.

My commuting cycling is at least 90% of the way done in my "day job
work clothes".

No "Spandex" there in the past 20 years, except for this past Halloween
where I dressed up as a delivery biker for a restaurant, along the lines
of a nurse being able to dress up as a nurse for a Halloween party in ways
significantly different from those "in a modern nurse job".
Even then, only for the last 1.5 customer-visible hours of one 13-plus
hour Saturday shift.
Furthermore, I wore denim shorts over my Spandex tights under my
oversize custom "Halloween apron" that I also wore a "workplace-allowed"
shirt under, even for "later Halloween night". Before that time that
day, I wore dress slacks and a long sleeve white dress shirt, with nothing
over those except my "Halloween apron". Then, I looked "nice / sharp /
"formal", though "a bit silly".

<SNIP what appears to me now to be straying from this track>
--
- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 26 2010 9:25 am
From: Forrest Hodge

On 9/25/2010 4:45 PM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey & the Spirits of
the Jungle wrote:
> My local forum kindly provided me this article that shows why cyclists
> are mad at you --if you are one those who dismiss cyclists as nothing
> more than a monkey. Well, now that the monkeys are getting together,
> you may have to think about it twice before... Hey, I don't to
> politicize this article! Please read on...
>
> (I changed the title)
>
> Why Your Neighborhood Cyclist Hates You
>
> Sure, you've laughed at cyclists' bulge-hugging Spandex shorts, rolled
> your eyes when they use the street inches from the sidewalk, and if
> you're a certain Latin pop star, you've even gotten drunk, hit them,
> and then driven off with their bike still lodged in your front fender
> while they lie bleeding on the side of the road. Asshole.
>
> Ah, and let's not forget ladies, the bigger the truck the more
> adorable you look. Even when you're texting, which has become such a
> pain now that cyclists are sharing the road. What a nuisance. Well,
> the feeling's mutual...kinda. The local cyclist we spoke to organizes
> group rides to celebrate bicycles, encourage cycling, and to remind
> drivers that they must share the road. Although this sounds about as
> sweet as puppies and rainbows, there's still a few things that drivers
> (and even cyclists) do that really jam up his gears:
>
> 1. Passing too closely
> Hey buddy, there's a reason why there's a state law that every vehicle
> must leave three feet of space between their car and a passing
> cyclist. Would you want to inhale a lung-full of exhaust while an
> 8,000-pound machine whizzes two inches away from your vulnerable flesh
> so they can get home in time to indulge in a Full House marathon and
> binge on Sun Chips? We think not.
>
> 2. The right hook
> This is when you speed up to pass a cyclist and then make an abrupt
> right turn in their path. You usually underestimate your speed, which
> means the cyclists has to stop abruptly so that don't crash into you.
> For those who haven't experienced it firsthand, peacefully riding a
> bike and then, all of a sudden, having your bike fly up and over your
> head is more terrifying than thrilling.
>
> 3. Honking
> Uh, yeah, driver, we kind of already know that you're there. You're
> hard to miss. You're in a giant sedan. So, there's really no need to
> honk. Unless you have one of those custom musical horns, it just makes
> you look angry and obnoxious.
>
> 4. The door prize
> Kudos on your awesome parallel parking skills and all but please, oh
> please don't open your door without checking the bike lane first.
> Otherwise, there'll be flesh crashing into metal and asphalt when the
> cyclist flies off their bike and lands in traffic.
>
> 5. Cyclists who ride against traffic in the bike lane
> For one, it's against the law, and creates a dilemma for fellow riders
> who are obeying the rules. It's not fun to problem solve under three
> seconds. Besides, if the unfortunate happens, and you do get hit by a
> car on the wrong side, it's your fault. Don't ruin it for the rest of
> us.
>
> http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/cultist/2010/09/why_your_neighborhood_cyclist.php
>
> ***
>
> By the way I hate cyclists who ride on sidewalks (rather fast) and
> don't want to join the revolution.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> http://webspawner.com/users/BIKEFORPEACE
>

1. Passing too closely

On two lane roads, with no real shoulder let alone any sidewalk or bike
path. There's really little the drive can do if there is oncoming
traffic in the opposite lane.

2. The right hook

Sounds like poor planning on driver's part

3. Honking

More of a safety thing. If the cyclist doesn't use hand signals, or
doesn't acknowledge that you are there, or is otherwise occupied by
his/her Ipod, then you need to get the cyclists attention some how, it
would be foolish to simply assume that he/she somehow already knows the
car there via the Force or something.

4. Door Prize

I've never seen this, mostly because I live in a semi-rural area and
there's no parking on the street.

5. Cyclists who ride against traffic in the bike lane

Again never I've never seen this in person

6. Cyclists who don't yield to a pedestrian in a crosswalk

I've seen this happen downtown, but not where I live, since there are
very few, if any crosswalks.

7. Cyclists who think red lights don't pertain to them.

This I have seen, and it's a problem. Just because you're on a bike, it
doesn't mean that traffic laws do not pertain to you. I did once see a
bicyclist pulled over after pulling this stunt.

== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 26 2010 11:01 am
From: Doc O'Leary

In article <i7ns6f$mt6$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
Forrest Hodge <fo19@hotmail.com> wrote:

> 1. Passing too closely
>
> On two lane roads, with no real shoulder let alone any sidewalk or bike
> path. There's really little the drive can do if there is oncoming
> traffic in the opposite lane.

Heaven forbid they should slow down for 5 seconds until the opposing
traffic passes, or at least be going slow enough when they pass the
cyclist that a dangerous speed difference does not exist.

> 2. The right hook
>
> Sounds like poor planning on driver's part

There is tons of poor planning when it comes to drivers. They
consistently seem to under-estimate how fast a bike can be. Another bit
of dumb behavior is them shooting off the line at a stop light to get
ahead of you, even when it's clear there is going to be another stop on
the next block. Same speed compensation issue with the right hook; they
refuse to slow down and turn *behind* a mere cyclist!

> 3. Honking
>
> More of a safety thing.

And yet when I immediately respond to their safety warning by taking the
lane, they seem upset! Which is to say, that's bullshit. I've never
heard a honk that was a safety warning. They honk because you are a 5
second inconvenience on a bike, and they would much rather you be a 5
minute inconvenience in a car. They honk because they have no idea that
I can hear other traffic because I'm not surrounding by glass and steel.

> 4. Door Prize
>
> I've never seen this, mostly because I live in a semi-rural area and
> there's no parking on the street.

It's a non-issue in most urban environments, too, unless you happen to
be riding at a time when a lot of people are getting in and out of cars.
I try to ride defensively, though, which means I'm always looking for
people, and seldom close enough to parked cars for a door to catch me.

> 5. Cyclists who ride against traffic in the bike lane
>
> Again never I've never seen this in person

It's another rare thing hardly worthy of mention. Nor is it a difficult
problem to solve: the person going the right way moves to take the lane,
allowing the idiot to carry on.

> 6. Cyclists who don't yield to a pedestrian in a crosswalk
>
> I've seen this happen downtown, but not where I live, since there are
> very few, if any crosswalks.

I've never seen this happen. I would fully support any pedestrian in
knocking over the bicyclist in self defense. What I see *more* of is a
cyclist using their skills to maneuver *through* pedestrian traffic. If
you're a driver in a big car (or a nervous pedestrian), you might not
appreciate how safe and easy this is.

> 7. Cyclists who think red lights don't pertain to them.
>
> This I have seen, and it's a problem. Just because you're on a bike, it
> doesn't mean that traffic laws do not pertain to you. I did once see a
> bicyclist pulled over after pulling this stunt.

Again, you might not appreciate how few traffic lights actually *do*
pertain to cyclists, or pedestrians! If I'm not riding a huge vehicle
at high speeds, it should be obvious that not all the same rules equally
apply. It is usually safe for an observant cyclist to treat a stop sign
as a yield, and if they're wrong then they're going to feel it!

Tell you what, drivers can bitch about bikes not obeying all stop signs
on they day they agree to obey all speed limit signs. Deal?

--
My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, localhost, googlegroups.com, astraweb.com,
and probably your server, too.

== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 26 2010 5:04 pm
From: Patricia Martin Steward

On Sun, 26 Sep 2010 13:01:43 -0500, Doc O'Leary
<droleary.usenet@3q2010.subsume.com> wrote:
>
>Tell you what, drivers can bitch about bikes not obeying all stop signs
>on they day they agree to obey all speed limit signs. Deal?

No. At least in my state, bicyclists have to obey the same traffic
rules.

--
We are becoming a country that believes the rich have earned their money but the well educated have not
earned their intellectual superiority. This leads to a nation that idolizes Kardashians.
Joel Stein, TIME, 8/23/10

== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 26 2010 5:29 pm
From: Forrest Hodge

On 9/26/2010 2:01 PM, Doc O'Leary wrote:

>
> Tell you what, drivers can bitch about bikes not obeying all stop signs
> on they day they agree to obey all speed limit signs. Deal?
>

When bicyclists can keep up with the prevailing speed of traffic then
we'll talk.

== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 26 2010 10:20 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In <droleary.usenet-0A573A.13014226092010@news.eternal-september.org>, Doc
O'Leary wrote in part:
>
>Tell you what, drivers can bitch about bikes not obeying all stop signs
>on they day they agree to obey all speed limit signs. Deal?

I drive both bikes and cars, though bikes 2-2.5 times as much as cars.

Speed limits have a high rate of appearing to me to be beaurocratic
government mandates...

So, I propose "Golden Rule"!

Do unto others that you want others to do unto you!

Obey speed limits, stop signs and traffic lights to the extent that
you want your fellow vehicle drivers to obey!

Do unto others with your bike what you want the "cagers" "fellow
vehicle drivers" to do unto you!

Certainly, I expect cyclists to have a high rate of doing such if
they want to survive to 50 years of age, when many cyclists still
"keep on truckin' " by bike look good in "Lycra" or bathing suits, and
few non-cyclists do.

And, it appears to me that cyclists have to deal with fellow vehicle
drivers on some fair basis, or else change vehicle choice to a "cage"
or otherwise "die young".
--
- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 26 2010 10:24 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In article <i7oogd$q6u$1@news.eternal-september.org>, Forrest Hodge wrote:
>On 9/26/2010 2:01 PM, Doc O'Leary wrote:
>
>> Tell you what, drivers can bitch about bikes not obeying all stop signs
>> on they day they agree to obey all speed limit signs. Deal?
>
>When bicyclists can keep up with the prevailing speed of traffic then
>we'll talk.

I do a lot of cycling keeping up with "prevailing speed in traffic
lane".

Often, that is anywhere from "easy" to "merely mildly difficult" to
do in the "Center City" and "University City" parts of Philadelphia!
--
- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 26 2010 11:15 pm
From: pussnboots

I posted to this thread last night--why doesn't it show??? is it because
I actually showed why i disliked cyclist...with good reason? Boon if
there's some hokey-pokey going on will you please shut this one
down.....

ITZmeagain wrote:
> I think PNB is the cat's meow!

Tonechallenge wrote:
> I am VERY glad that VSS has joined this forum! This place is WAY more
> fun with him here! Cheers!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Is God a Christian?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b30698bf09647297?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 26 2010 12:22 am
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In <5f69e166-a86f-463d-b470-3b5d535a1d5c@b34g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
His Highness the TibetanMonkey & the Spirits of the Jungle wrote:
>One question is if there's a god, another if he's Christian. C'mon, he
>can be Muslim or worship the Moon...
>
>Worshiping the Moon can be reasonable and I do try to come out every
>full moon. I think that's a little Pagan because people come out to
>the beach with drums and dance. They also smoke a lot of pot (you can
>feel it in the air), which makes for an atmosphere of freedom. Some
>couples go into the water and God knows what happens there.
>
>It would be cool if God were Pagan.

The "usual Western-world family holiday" in late December with
red-and-green warm-and-fuzzy practices is heavily practiced nowadays
with the practices of the late-december holiday known as "Yule", which
is a Pagan one.

======================================

One thing I believe: Christ was here, and was here as someone holy,
and will come back again.

And, one thing that I expect Jesus Christ to do in the likely event
he comes back here, is to update us as to day of year for celebration
of his birth at least biblically by a virgin:

I expect sometime of the year at least a bit away from eve of the
"Red-and-Green Warm-and-Fuzzy" holiday that some note the "catholic
church" to have merged these two separate holidays into.

In the likely event Jesus Christ comes back as a notably religiously
significant figure, I expect Christ to "update us" that we should
celebrate his "virgin birth" at a time a bit away from the day or the
eve of the "red-and-green warm-and-fuzzy family holiday".

As it appears to me, a "just God" would not have us attending a midnight
church service between day-before preparations and "the red-and-green
warm-and-fuzzy" "hectic family holiday" that is rife with decorated gifts
and red-and-green warm-and-fuzzy holiday decorations.
--
- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Discount Wholesale LRG Jeans ,Kanji Jeans (http://www.cntrade09.com/ ) <
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/7b03284a29dd9c68?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 26 2010 1:18 am
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: CommonCents: Anyone using it?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/16ea4f96a96515cb?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 26 2010 4:33 am
From: Dan Birchall

patstew@noteranews.com (Patricia Martin Steward) wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Sep 2010 03:05:42 -0700 (PDT), Al <albundy2@mailinator.com>
> wrote:
> >m...@privacy.net wrote:
> >> Just curious if any users here and how its going?
> >
> >Why yes, I am.
> >My local Hiller's market accepts change at their self-check-out so I
> >empty all my change there when there is no line. I save losing money
> >at the CoinStar. It's going well.
>
> Excellent idea! I found out that my bank will count a not-huge amount
> of change into their little machine and not charge me for it.
> Apparently other banks assess some sort of fee. Tsk tsk.

My credit union has some sort of machine (I don't know if it's "common
cents" or not, as they stuck their own logo or something on it) about the
size of a CoinStar and they don't seem to mind me wandering in there with
as much change as I can comfortably carry and dumping it all in there,
then bringing over the little receipt thing it spits out to the teller
and getting that amount credited to my account.

If I *didn't* have an account with them, however, they would take a cut.

--
Dan Birchall - http://danbirchall.multiply.com/ - images, words, technology

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 26 2010 1:35 pm
From: Al

Dan Birchall wrote:
> patstew@noteranews.com (Patricia Martin Steward) wrote:
> > On Fri, 24 Sep 2010 03:05:42 -0700 (PDT), Al <albundy2@mailinator.com>
> > wrote:
> > >m...@privacy.net wrote:
> > >> Just curious if any users here and how its going?
> > >

>
> My credit union has some sort of machine (I don't know if it's "common
> cents" or not, as they stuck their own logo or something on it) about the
> size of a CoinStar and they don't seem to mind me wandering in there with
> as much change as I can comfortably carry and dumping it all in there,
> then bringing over the little receipt thing it spits out to the teller
> and getting that amount credited to my account.
>
That's a great idea to get people into the lobby. I'm not sure they
really want people in there any more though. I have not set foot in a
physical bank in some time because of online banking and ATMs. I
should probably check to see if they have such a machine. My guess is
that your bank decided it was more efficient to have the separate
machine do the counting and issue tender rather than have bank staff
do some of the work. I wish everything was a win-win situation like
that.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Getting the last drop out of containers...
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/cabbc0c6df3923f0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 26 2010 8:01 pm
From: The Real Bev

On 09/22/10 17:03, Shawn Hirn wrote:

> For all those items, when they are near empty, I simply store the bottle
> upside down and let gravity do what gravity does best.

Inflict pain on the unwary?

--
Cheers, Bev
------------------------------------------------------------------
"If you were trying to be offensive, you would have succeeded if I
hadn't realized you have no idea what you are talking about."
-- FernandoP

==============================================================================
TOPIC: UPS screwing with my medicine
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/52e2fdabac430e07?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 26 2010 8:06 pm
From: The Real Bev

On 09/24/10 02:45, Chief Thracian wrote:

> On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 07:15:03 -0400, Shawn Hirn<srhi@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Try a different shipping carrier. If your pharmacy won't use a different
>>carrier, that's their problem so tell them to either ship their products
>>too you differently or you will not do business with them.
>
> All shipping carriers are unreliable, self-serving and inconsiderate.
> There is none that is better than any other, just like cell phone
> companies. When it comes to home delivery--especially to apartment
> dwellers--delivery services, no matter which company, treat their
> customers shoddily.
>
> The *only* solution--short of eliminating delivery services from your
> life--is to find a local business that will be glad to use their
> address to receive your packages. Of course, you must trust them, and
> already have a good personal rapport with 'em.

I've never had a problem with ANY carrier's package delivery -- going or
coming. The USPS and first-class mail is, of course, very different.
The businesses across the street used to have a rubber stamp -- "This
mail mistakenly delivered to Bell & Howell" (or whatever business
occupied the building at the time). It didn't stop until the building
was torn down, but now we get mail addressed to our neighbors and vice
versa.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The 11th Commandment
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/bff2baccb64e87f1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 26 2010 8:09 pm
From: The Real Bev

On 09/24/10 10:07, Tannim wrote:

> Exo 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not
> covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor
> his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

This is also the origin of the prohibition against homosexuality.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 26 2010 9:01 pm
From: Tannim

Actually, Bev, the prohibition of homosexuality goes farther back. The
first prohibition of homosexuality can be found in Genesis 1:28.
Genesis 19 really hammers the point home. Also, Genesis 2:23-24.

- I a m b u t m a d n o r t h - n o r t h w e s t . W h e n
t h e w i n d i s s o u t h e r l y , I k n o w a h a w
k f r o m a h a n d s a w . -

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 26 2010 10:55 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In article <i7p1sv$39d$2@news.eternal-september.org>, The Real Bev wrote:
>On 09/24/10 10:07, Tannim wrote:
>
>> Exo 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not
>> covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor
>> his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
>
>This is also the origin of the prohibition against homosexuality.

The above prohibition appears to me to have gender neutrality with
regards to oxen and donkeys and servants, as well as houses.

And, please give consideration for how much a human of either gender
and any sexual orientation desires a "hot date with" oxen, donkeys, or
even buffalos or any heads of cattle, or houses for that matter.

Getting into bed with paid servants is another matter - prostitution,
less-common for servants to deal with as opposed to ones whose job
descriptions describe prostitution...

And why should I as a gay man covet any neighbor's wife? Not that
I covet husbands other than mine in my neighborhood... My boyfriend
gets me "sexually exited" better than anyone else on "God's Green
earth" can!

Certainly, I prefer to "have a hot date into te bedroom" with my
boyfriend rather than an ox or a donkey or a neighbor or anyone's
wife!
--
- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 26 2010 11:12 pm
From: The Real Bev

On 09/26/10 22:55, Don Klipstein wrote:

> In article<i7p1sv$39d$2@news.eternal-september.org>, The Real Bev wrote:
>>On 09/24/10 10:07, Tannim wrote:
>>
>>> Exo 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not
>>> covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor
>>> his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
>>
>>This is also the origin of the prohibition against homosexuality.
>
> The above prohibition appears to me to have gender neutrality with
> regards to oxen and donkeys and servants, as well as houses.

Indeed. The purpose of such covetousness is nonspecific to say the least.

> And, please give consideration for how much a human of either gender
> and any sexual orientation desires a "hot date with" oxen, donkeys, or
> even buffalos or any heads of cattle, or houses for that matter.
>
> Getting into bed with paid servants is another matter - prostitution,
> less-common for servants to deal with as opposed to ones whose job
> descriptions describe prostitution...
>
> And why should I as a gay man covet any neighbor's wife? Not that
> I covet husbands other than mine in my neighborhood... My boyfriend
> gets me "sexually exited" better than anyone else on "God's Green
> earth" can!

Thou shalt not covet they neighbor's ass. I think that's pretty clear.

> Certainly, I prefer to "have a hot date into te bedroom" with my
> boyfriend rather than an ox or a donkey or a neighbor or anyone's
> wife!

The commandments seem to be of a more general nature -- wives, stuff,
farm animals, asses, all are forbidden to be coveted if they belong to
thy neighbor.

--
Cheers, Bev
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Eat this, NSA: bomb assassinate Washington North Korea Iraq spy poison

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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 26 2010 10:16 pm
From: abraham isaac

Pre Launch!!!!!!! http://tinyurl.com/25jj97y register for free now!!

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Frugal Living

Monday, September 27, 2010

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 20 new messages in 8 topics - digest

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