Frugal Living: misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 9 topics

Sunday, October 3, 2010

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How make cheap roll around desktop computer/monitor stand?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/655e6fa62fa327ce?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 2 2010 11:41 pm
From: no-spam@sonic.net (Fake ID)

In article <8fafa6trigjqtvt7p3d7oqmgtoev6e01ae@4ax.com>,
<me@privacy.net> wrote:
>Id like to have my desktop computer mounted on a stand
>similar to this Ergotron model in link:
>
>http://www.ergotron.com/Products/tabid/65/PRDID/116/language/en-US/Default.aspx
>
>It doesn't need to be this fancy and doesn't even need
>a keyboard platform as would be using wireless keyboard
>and mouse. It just needs to hold the monitor AND CPU
>(down low) and roll around
>
>I was thinking maybe using parts from an old office
>desk chair would be a good start
>
>Any other ideas out there to create something on the
>cheap?

That Ergotron thing reminds me of an IV pole. Some applications have a
sizeable machine strapped to the pole.

Like someone else said, it depends on your particular definition of
cheap. And also the available junk pile.

I've never known those articulated arms shown on the Ergotron to
be cheap. Perhaps a similar part scavanged from something else like a
desklamp.

How about setting a laptop on an office chair?

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 3 2010 8:51 am
From: "Lou"

"Jeff Thies" <jeff_thies@att.net> wrote in message
news:i89215$p6e$2@news.albasani.net...
> On 10/2/2010 7:18 PM, Lou wrote:
> > <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> > news:8fafa6trigjqtvt7p3d7oqmgtoev6e01ae@4ax.com...
> >> Id like to have my desktop computer mounted on a stand
> >> similar to this Ergotron model in link:
> >>
> >>
> >
http://www.ergotron.com/Products/tabid/65/PRDID/116/language/en-US/Default.aspx
> >>
> >> It doesn't need to be this fancy and doesn't even need
> >> a keyboard platform as would be using wireless keyboard
> >> and mouse. It just needs to hold the monitor AND CPU
> >> (down low) and roll around
> >>
> >> I was thinking maybe using parts from an old office
> >> desk chair would be a good start
> >>
> >> Any other ideas out there to create something on the
> >> cheap?
> >
> > I don't know what your cut off for "cheap" is, or what scenario you have
in
> > mind (what kind of range you might need) but if you're using a wireless
> > keyboard and wireless mouse, might you consider a wireless monitor
adaptor,
>
>
> Wireless monitor? I've never seen that. That's a lot more bandwidth than
> a keyboard or a mouse!
>
> Jeff
>
> > and leaving the cpu in one place?

Just because you've never seen one doesn't mean they don't exist - try
looking it up.

It seems to me that the biggest problem with moving the cpu, and for that
matter the monitor, around like that is that these things need electricity,
and that usually means they need to be plugged in. So every time you move
the contraption, the computer has to be powered down, moved, and re-booted.

If portability is important, a laptop sounds far more practical to me, but
that may not fit the original poster's definition of "cheap".

However, if moving things around is important, I think it's be easier and
cheaper to use something like a tea cart (for instance something like what
you can at http://www.teacart.org/ or
http://www.webstaurantstore.com/sub243/products/serving-carts.html?gclid=CInj_PKDt6QCFSVM5QodPmYF0A ), or any two or three decker table on wheels. Some
come with built in electrical sockets, so you only have to plug/unplug the
cart, not each individual piece of hardware on it.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 3 2010 9:43 am
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Sat, 02 Oct 2010 16:53:51 -0500, me@privacy.net wrote:

>Id like to have my desktop computer mounted on a stand
>similar to this Ergotron model in link:
>
>http://www.ergotron.com/Products/tabid/65/PRDID/116/language/en-US/Default.aspx
>
>It doesn't need to be this fancy and doesn't even need
>a keyboard platform as would be using wireless keyboard
>and mouse. It just needs to hold the monitor AND CPU
>(down low) and roll around
>
>I was thinking maybe using parts from an old office
>desk chair would be a good start
>
>Any other ideas out there to create something on the
>cheap?

Harbor Freight mover's dolly $10
Box.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 3 2010 10:29 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Lou wrote:
> "Jeff Thies" <jeff_thies@att.net> wrote in message
> news:i89215$p6e$2@news.albasani.net...
>> On 10/2/2010 7:18 PM, Lou wrote:
>>> <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>> news:8fafa6trigjqtvt7p3d7oqmgtoev6e01ae@4ax.com...
>>>> Id like to have my desktop computer mounted on a stand
>>>> similar to this Ergotron model in link:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
> http://www.ergotron.com/Products/tabid/65/PRDID/116/language/en-US/Default.aspx
>>>>
>>>> It doesn't need to be this fancy and doesn't even need
>>>> a keyboard platform as would be using wireless keyboard
>>>> and mouse. It just needs to hold the monitor AND CPU
>>>> (down low) and roll around
>>>>
>>>> I was thinking maybe using parts from an old office
>>>> desk chair would be a good start
>>>>
>>>> Any other ideas out there to create something on the
>>>> cheap?
>>>
>>> I don't know what your cut off for "cheap" is, or what scenario you
>>> have
> in
>>> mind (what kind of range you might need) but if you're using a
>>> wireless keyboard and wireless mouse, might you consider a wireless
>>> monitor
> adaptor,
>>
>>
>> Wireless monitor? I've never seen that. That's a lot more bandwidth
>> than a keyboard or a mouse!
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>> and leaving the cpu in one place?
>
> Just because you've never seen one doesn't mean they don't exist - try
> looking it up.
>
> It seems to me that the biggest problem with moving the cpu, and for
> that
> matter the monitor, around like that is that these things need
> electricity,
> and that usually means they need to be plugged in. So every time you
> move
> the contraption, the computer has to be powered down, moved, and
> re-booted.
>
> If portability is important, a laptop sounds far more practical to
> me, but
> that may not fit the original poster's definition of "cheap".
>
> However, if moving things around is important, I think it's be easier
> and
> cheaper to use something like a tea cart (for instance something like
> what
> you can at http://www.teacart.org/ or
> http://www.webstaurantstore.com/sub243/products/serving-carts.html?gclid=CInj_PKDt6QCFSVM5QodPmYF0A
> ), or any two or three decker table on wheels. Some come with built
> in electrical sockets, so you only have to plug/unplug the
> cart, not each individual piece of hardware on it.

Those dont qualify as anything like his original requirement for CHEAP.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 3 2010 1:32 pm
From: me@privacy.net

Most likely will wind up using one of these

http://tinyurl.com/3aj5rop

The reason I just don't use a laptop is cause I want
the horsepower of a desktop.... but want it on a
"mobile" platform of some type.

I ideally it would be adjustable in height so that I
could use it a sit down desk.....or a STAND UP desk

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ed Dolan the Great and the denizens of Usenet
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d833df279e38cde8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 3 2010 4:55 am
From: JimmyMac

On Sep 29, 8:41 pm, "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
> "JimmyMac" <jimmyma...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:db8aed69-c0d3-4716-a8dd-8ed326cd79c3@26g2000yqv.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 29, 2:35 am, "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
> [...]
>
> > I did slave labor like that when I was in the Navy. But hard labor is
> > something to escape from. Anyone who takes pride in being a hard worker is
> > some kind of moron.
> >> Let me see if I have this right. Cerebral work is not hard work and
>
> should be disdained because it is not hard, but, then again, hard (ie
> [i.e.,]
> physical) work is to be avoided because it is hard. I guess then all
> work, of any type, is to be disdained, avoided and one should not take
> pride in working but rather pride in avoiding work of any kind.
> Irrationality reigns and the conundrum continues. So who is the moron
> here? Readers cast your votes.
>
> The key word is "hard". If something is hard for you to do, whether mental
> or physical, then you are a moron for doing it. Since you are a moron,
> everything you have ever set out to do has been hard for you. Since I am not
> a moron, everything I have ever set out to do has been easy, in fact,
> child's play.

Actually the operative work is "work". "Hard" is merely a modifier
(adjective) to specify the level of difficulty, but that matters not
since you know nothing of work and spurn the very notion of
participation at any level of difficulty.

>
> Folks who take pride in having worked hard deserve nothing but disdain. I
> mock them as they deserve to be mocked. Whoever said life should be hard?
> Life should be easy. I knew this by the time I was 17. I have spent my life
> avoiding anything that was hard and I have never regretted it for one
> moment. Soon enough we are all dead and if you have not found life to be
> easy, then go to Hell with all your kind!
>
> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 3 2010 4:56 am
From: JimmyMac

On Sep 29, 8:58 pm, Tom Sherman °_°
<twshermanREM...@THISsouthslope.net> wrote:
> On 9/29/2010 8:41 PM, Edward Dolan wrote:
>
>
>
> > "JimmyMac"<jimmyma...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:db8aed69-c0d3-4716-a8dd-8ed326cd79c3@26g2000yqv.googlegroups.com...
> > On Sep 29, 2:35 am, "Edward Dolan"<edo...@iw.net> wrote:
> > [...]
> >> I did slave labor like that when I was in the Navy. But hard labor is
> >> something to escape from. Anyone who takes pride in being a hard worker is
> >> some kind of moron.
>
> >>> Let me see if I have this right. Cerebral work is not hard work and
> > should be disdained because it is not hard, but, then again, hard (ie
> > [i.e.,]
> > physical) work is to be avoided because it is hard. I guess then all
> > work, of any type, is to be disdained, avoided and one should not take
> > pride in working but rather pride in avoiding work of any kind.
> > Irrationality reigns and the conundrum continues. So who is the moron
> > here? Readers cast your votes.
>
> > The key word is "hard". If something is hard for you to do, whether mental
> > or physical, then you are a moron for doing it. Since you are a moron,
> > everything you have ever set out to do has been hard for you. Since I am not
> > a moron, everything I have ever set out to do has been easy, in fact,
> > child's play.
>
> > Folks who take pride in having worked hard deserve nothing but disdain. I
> > mock them as they deserve to be mocked. Whoever said life should be hard?
> > Life should be easy. I knew this by the time I was 17. I have spent my life
> > avoiding anything that was hard
>
> Because:
>
> A: Ed Dolan could not handle hard work if he tried.
>
> B: With his personality, Ed Dolan could not keep a job even if it meant
> starving otherwise.
>
> Ed Dolan has spent his life living off the income of investments made by
> his harder working forebears.
>
> > and I have never regretted it for one
> > moment. Soon enough we are all dead and if you have not found life to be
> > easy, then go to Hell with all your kind!
>
> Mr. Ed Dolan makes the best argument yet for confiscatory inheritance
> taxes - they would eliminate the parasites from society.
>
> Work or starve, I say.

Tom ... as the British would say ... SPOT ON!!!

> --
> Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
> I am a vehicular cyclist.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 3 2010 4:59 am
From: JimmyMac

On Sep 29, 9:52 pm, "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
> "Tom Sherman °_°" <twshermanREM...@THISsouthslope.net> wrote in messagenews:i80qrf$j9p$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>
>
> > On 9/29/2010 8:41 PM, Edward Dolan wrote:
> >> "JimmyMac"<jimmyma...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>news:db8aed69-c0d3-4716-a8dd-8ed326cd79c3@26g2000yqv.googlegroups.com...
> >> On Sep 29, 2:35 am, "Edward Dolan"<edo...@iw.net> wrote:
> >> [...]
> >>> I did slave labor like that when I was in the Navy. But hard labor is
> >>> something to escape from. Anyone who takes pride in being a hard worker
> >>> is
> >>> some kind of moron.
>
> >>>> Let me see if I have this right. Cerebral work is not hard work and
> >> should be disdained because it is not hard, but, then again, hard (ie
> >> [i.e.,]
> >> physical) work is to be avoided because it is hard. I guess then all
> >> work, of any type, is to be disdained, avoided and one should not take
> >> pride in working but rather pride in avoiding work of any kind.
> >> Irrationality reigns and the conundrum continues. So who is the moron
> >> here? Readers cast your votes.
>
> >> The key word is "hard". If something is hard for you to do, whether
> >> mental
> >> or physical, then you are a moron for doing it. Since you are a moron,
> >> everything you have ever set out to do has been hard for you. Since I am
> >> not
> >> a moron, everything I have ever set out to do has been easy, in fact,
> >> child's play.
>
> >> Folks who take pride in having worked hard deserve nothing but disdain. I
> >> mock them as they deserve to be mocked. Whoever said life should be hard?
> >> Life should be easy. I knew this by the time I was 17. I have spent my
> >> life
> >> avoiding anything that was hard
>
> > Because:
>
> > A: Ed Dolan could not handle hard work if he tried.
>
> I tried while in the Navy ... did not like it, so I quit!
>
> > B: With his personality, Ed Dolan could not keep a job even if it meant
> > starving otherwise.
>
> Jobs are for slaves like Tom Sherman, not for free living souls like Myself!
>
> > Ed Dolan has spent his life living off the income of investments made by
> > his harder working forebears.
>
> Nope, my forebears did not work hard either. I come from a long line of
> smart people who knew how to live without working hard.

TRANSLATION ... I, Ed Dolan come, frorm and extended lineage of lazy
bastards. Like all my ancestors, I too am a sloth.

> >> and I have never regretted it for one
> >> moment. Soon enough we are all dead and if you have not found life to be
> >> easy, then go to Hell with all your kind!
>
> > Mr. Ed Dolan makes the best argument yet for confiscatory inheritance
> > taxes - they would eliminate the parasites from society.
>
> Where does Mr. Sherman think capital comes from? No investment, and we all
> end up living like Soviet workers.
>
> > Work or starve, I say.
>
> Nonsense. Not everyone needs to work, only those who seem to prefer it to a
> life of leisure.
>
> A life of leisure is easily within reach of any American. All you have to do
> is never marry, never have children, do not buy a house or a new car, and,
> in short, do not ever spend a penny you do not absolutely have to spend.
> Jeez, I would have thought even a jerk like Tom Sherman would have been able
> figure this much out on his own.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 3 2010 5:20 am
From: "Edward Dolan"

"JimmyMac" <jimmymac_4@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5456244e-6266-4cb4-8a5e-86d0c4423700@i5g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 29, 9:52 pm, "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
[...]
> Nope, my forebears did not work hard either. I come from a long line of
> smart people who knew how to live without working hard.

>> TRANSLATION ... I, Ed Dolan come, frorm and extended lineage of lazy
bastards. Like all my ancestors, I too am a sloth.

Now Jim McNamara is not only jealous of me, but also of my ancestors. Yea,
it is better to come from a family of smart Irishmen than a family of dumb
Poles, hardworking or otherwise.
[...]

Why not learn how to edit a post? You are as dumb as TM who also does not
know how to edit a post.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 3 2010 5:28 am
From: "Edward Dolan"

"JimmyMac" <jimmymac_4@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bdac4347-822a-44c3-8767-97a61983fcf1@f6g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 29, 8:41 pm, "Edward Dolan" <edo...@iw.net> wrote:
[...]
> The key word is "hard". If something is hard for you to do, whether mental
> or physical, then you are a moron for doing it. Since you are a moron,
> everything you have ever set out to do has been hard for you. Since I am
> not
> a moron, everything I have ever set out to do has been easy, in fact,
> child's play.

>> Actually the operative word is "work". "Hard" is merely a modifier
(adjective) to specify the level of difficulty, but that matters not
since you know nothing of work and spurn the very notion of
participation at any level of difficulty.

I do not seek out hard work I must admit. In fact, I try to avoid all forms
of work entirely. The purpose of my life is to emulate the Life of God
Himself. To simply BE is what it is all about, but try to explain that to an
idiot!

> Folks who take pride in having worked hard deserve nothing but disdain. I
> mock them as they deserve to be mocked. Whoever said life should be hard?
> Life should be easy. I knew this by the time I was 17. I have spent my
> life
> avoiding anything that was hard and I have never regretted it for one
> moment. Soon enough we are all dead and if you have not found life to be
> easy, then go to Hell with all your kind!
>
> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

==============================================================================
TOPIC: "Not flushing" is hard to do!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f56f53c076df2592?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 3 2010 7:34 am
From: Derald

jfk59@webtv.net (Janice Kohn) wrote:

>If it's yellow, let it mellow. If it's brown, flush it down.
Cute, but how does that keep the mellowing yellow from smelling
like piss? Seems to me that leaving the stuff to lie there in a puddle
inside a bowl sort of defeats the purpose of indoor flushing toilets.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 3 2010 7:56 am
From: George

On 10/3/2010 10:34 AM, Derald wrote:
>
> jfk59@webtv.net (Janice Kohn) wrote:
>
>> If it's yellow, let it mellow. If it's brown, flush it down.
> Cute, but how does that keep the mellowing yellow from smelling
> like piss? Seems to me that leaving the stuff to lie there in a puddle
> inside a bowl sort of defeats the purpose of indoor flushing toilets.

Exactly, and how much are you saving? We have one of the highest water
rates in the country and flushing 4 times/day uses ~ $1.10 of water.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 3 2010 8:47 am
From: "Bill"

> Exactly, and how much are you saving? We have one of the highest
> water rates in the country and flushing 4 times/day uses ~ $1.10 of
> water.
>

The name of this group is "frugal-living". The first lesson is that
saving pennies and dollars here and there adds up to
hundreds/thousands of dollars a year.

(In my case I go #1 ten times a day and that works out to saving $72 a
year with my water rates, but if that was $12 a year, I would still do
it as I am looking for ways to save money and that is why I am
here...)

My neighbor spent money all the time because it was "just a dollar".
About 10 times a day she would buy this or that for "just a dollar".
And at the end of the month she did not have enough left to pay her
bills. She no longer lives there because her house was foreclosed on
due to non-payment.

In her case in was not a "dollar", rather more like $3650.00 per year!

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 3 2010 10:06 am
From: "h"

"Bill" <billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8grmsaFa7iU1@mid.individual.net...
>> Exactly, and how much are you saving? We have one of the highest water
>> rates in the country and flushing 4 times/day uses ~ $1.10 of water.
>
> (In my case I go #1 ten times a day and that works out to saving $72 a
> year with my water rates, but if that was $12 a year, I would still do it
> as I am looking for ways to save money and that is why I am here...)
>

Wow! Our entire water bill for the year is $60 (we never use more than the
minimum fee). Do you live in the southwest?

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 3 2010 10:27 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Bill wrote:
>> Exactly, and how much are you saving? We have one of the highest
>> water rates in the country and flushing 4 times/day uses ~ $1.10 of
>> water.
>>
>
> The name of this group is "frugal-living". The first lesson is that
> saving pennies and dollars here and there adds up to
> hundreds/thousands of dollars a year.
>
> (In my case I go #1 ten times a day and that works out to saving $72 a
> year with my water rates, but if that was $12 a year, I would still do
> it as I am looking for ways to save money and that is why I am
> here...)
>
> My neighbor spent money all the time because it was "just a dollar".
> About 10 times a day she would buy this or that for "just a dollar".
> And at the end of the month she did not have enough left to pay her
> bills. She no longer lives there because her house was foreclosed on
> due to non-payment.
>
> In her case in was not a "dollar", rather more like $3650.00 per year!

I dont believe anyone is paying anything like $3650.00 per year to flush.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 3 2010 11:13 am
From: The Real Bev

On 10/03/10 07:56, George wrote:

> On 10/3/2010 10:34 AM, Derald wrote:
>>
>> jfk59@webtv.net (Janice Kohn) wrote:
>>
>>> If it's yellow, let it mellow. If it's brown, flush it down.
>> Cute, but how does that keep the mellowing yellow from smelling
>> like piss? Seems to me that leaving the stuff to lie there in a puddle
>> inside a bowl sort of defeats the purpose of indoor flushing toilets.

Get some of the Clorox spray cleaner that is/contains bleach. Give the
toilet contents a shot when you're finished. It's good for cleaning
porcelain too.

> Exactly, and how much are you saving? We have one of the highest water
> rates in the country and flushing 4 times/day uses ~ $1.10 of water.

I think it's more a 'don't waste water' thing. We Socalians live in a
desert and get our water from other states.

--
Cheers, Bev
=============================================================
My house isn't a pigsty, it's an Immunity Enhancement Center.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: While the Dutch are happily riding bikes, here people is talking BS
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c8669fcf3bad5b21?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 3 2010 6:55 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey & the Spirits of the Jungle"

On Oct 2, 3:56 pm, Forrest Hodge <f...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/2/2010 9:35 AM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey & the Spirits of
>
>
>
> the Jungle wrote:
> > On Oct 1, 1:43 pm, Forrest Hodge<f...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> On 10/1/2010 8:51 AM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey& the Spirits of
>
> >> the Jungle wrote:
> >>> On Sep 30, 1:44 pm, Forrest Hodge<f...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> On 9/30/2010 12:30 AM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey& the Spirits of
>
> >>>> the Jungle wrote:
> >>>>> While the Dutch are happily riding bikes, here people is talking BS
> >>>>> about whether or not you need separate facilities. It's simple: the
> >>>>> Dutch way or give the whole fucking lane to the cyclist. TAKE THE LANE
> >>>>> and end of story. No more, finito, ciao, hasta la vista!
>
> >>>>> BLAH, BLAH, BLAH...
>
> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------
>
> >>>>> THE WISE TIBETAN MONKEY SAYS
>
> >>>>> "No bull, just sacrifice the Sacred Cows"
>
> >>>>>http://webspawner.com/users/BIKEFORPEACE
>
> >>>> Have you seen the kind of taxation the Dutch have? Just for fuel the tax
> >>>> rate is $3.50 USD per U.S. gallon of petrol *plus* a 20% VAT on top of
> >>>> that. I doubt all these people are cyclists by choice.
>
> >>> Exactly, that's exactly why we need to stop protecting the driver and
> >>> start punishing him for bad behavior. But don't worry, it won't happen
> >>> in America. ;)
>
> >> Depends what you think constitutes "bad behavior." I hold more contempt
> >> for the cyclist holding up traffic in morning rush hour than I do for
> >> the guy driving 85+ MPH on a highway where the speed limit is 65 MPH.
>
> > Maybe that cyclist doesn't need to drive a polluting car to get to
> > work rather than riding for sport.
>
> > If you hold contempt against someone riding a bike to work or
> > errand... you should be in contempt.
>
> > It's not that riding for the fun of it should be in contempt either.
>
> In certain situations where there's heavy low speed traffic, like in
> city it's not a huge deal because traffic (car, bus, and bicycle) is all
> moving at similar speeds. However for those of us that do not like in an
> urban area, and commutes on roads with few intersections and lanes, a
> single cyclist traveling at 25-30 MPH less than the prevailing speed is
> a problem, especially if the road is two lane, no passing, an certainly
> no sidewalks or bike lanes.
>
> My commute to work takes about 10-13 minutes by car, (depending on if
> the single traffic light is red or not when I get to it). There were two
> occasions last year where a particularly obnoxious, cyclist decided to
> go for a ride during morning rush hour. He was traveling about 15-20 MPH
> on a road where traffic normally travels about 45-50 MPH. The line of
> cars behind him was about 20 cars deep. My travel time for those days
> was over 20 minutes on each occasion. The gentleman on the bike likely
> wasn't going to work unless his place of employment's dress code
> includes spandex with logos all over it. But he made it his business to
> unnecessarily delay those who have to get to work. There are *many* back
> roads around here that have little to no traffic that he could've ridden
> on, still gotten some exercise and *not* caused undue delay to people
> who were not out driving for enjoyment. Coincidentally these are the
> same back roads I like to bike on. Of course he's perfectly in rights
> to do so, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea, in the same sense that
> it's legal to wear a ski mask into bank, but it's probably not a great
> idea.
>
> Basically it boils down to "Is it acceptable for the wants of the few to
> trump the needs of the many?"

Well, I can sort of agree with you if the guy is just "having fun" and
not using it for real transportation. Like you say, he can always go
to a back road.

The real problem is people that wished to ride for utility and don't
have the chance to do so. You may also argue that an SUV is out of
place on the roads, and belongs in the jungle somewhere.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 3 2010 11:41 am
From: Forrest Hodge

On 10/3/2010 9:55 AM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey & the Spirits of
the Jungle wrote:
> On Oct 2, 3:56 pm, Forrest Hodge<f...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On 10/2/2010 9:35 AM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey& the Spirits of
>>
>>
>>
>> the Jungle wrote:
>>> On Oct 1, 1:43 pm, Forrest Hodge<f...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 10/1/2010 8:51 AM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey& the Spirits of
>>
>>>> the Jungle wrote:
>>>>> On Sep 30, 1:44 pm, Forrest Hodge<f...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/30/2010 12:30 AM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey& the Spirits of
>>
>>>>>> the Jungle wrote:
>>>>>>> While the Dutch are happily riding bikes, here people is talking BS
>>>>>>> about whether or not you need separate facilities. It's simple: the
>>>>>>> Dutch way or give the whole fucking lane to the cyclist. TAKE THE LANE
>>>>>>> and end of story. No more, finito, ciao, hasta la vista!
>>
>>>>>>> BLAH, BLAH, BLAH...
>>
>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>>>>>> THE WISE TIBETAN MONKEY SAYS
>>
>>>>>>> "No bull, just sacrifice the Sacred Cows"
>>
>>>>>>> http://webspawner.com/users/BIKEFORPEACE
>>
>>>>>> Have you seen the kind of taxation the Dutch have? Just for fuel the tax
>>>>>> rate is $3.50 USD per U.S. gallon of petrol *plus* a 20% VAT on top of
>>>>>> that. I doubt all these people are cyclists by choice.
>>
>>>>> Exactly, that's exactly why we need to stop protecting the driver and
>>>>> start punishing him for bad behavior. But don't worry, it won't happen
>>>>> in America. ;)
>>
>>>> Depends what you think constitutes "bad behavior." I hold more contempt
>>>> for the cyclist holding up traffic in morning rush hour than I do for
>>>> the guy driving 85+ MPH on a highway where the speed limit is 65 MPH.
>>
>>> Maybe that cyclist doesn't need to drive a polluting car to get to
>>> work rather than riding for sport.
>>
>>> If you hold contempt against someone riding a bike to work or
>>> errand... you should be in contempt.
>>
>>> It's not that riding for the fun of it should be in contempt either.
>>
>> In certain situations where there's heavy low speed traffic, like in
>> city it's not a huge deal because traffic (car, bus, and bicycle) is all
>> moving at similar speeds. However for those of us that do not like in an
>> urban area, and commutes on roads with few intersections and lanes, a
>> single cyclist traveling at 25-30 MPH less than the prevailing speed is
>> a problem, especially if the road is two lane, no passing, an certainly
>> no sidewalks or bike lanes.
>>
>> My commute to work takes about 10-13 minutes by car, (depending on if
>> the single traffic light is red or not when I get to it). There were two
>> occasions last year where a particularly obnoxious, cyclist decided to
>> go for a ride during morning rush hour. He was traveling about 15-20 MPH
>> on a road where traffic normally travels about 45-50 MPH. The line of
>> cars behind him was about 20 cars deep. My travel time for those days
>> was over 20 minutes on each occasion. The gentleman on the bike likely
>> wasn't going to work unless his place of employment's dress code
>> includes spandex with logos all over it. But he made it his business to
>> unnecessarily delay those who have to get to work. There are *many* back
>> roads around here that have little to no traffic that he could've ridden
>> on, still gotten some exercise and *not* caused undue delay to people
>> who were not out driving for enjoyment. Coincidentally these are the
>> same back roads I like to bike on. Of course he's perfectly in rights
>> to do so, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea, in the same sense that
>> it's legal to wear a ski mask into bank, but it's probably not a great
>> idea.
>>
>> Basically it boils down to "Is it acceptable for the wants of the few to
>> trump the needs of the many?"
>
> Well, I can sort of agree with you if the guy is just "having fun" and
> not using it for real transportation. Like you say, he can always go
> to a back road.
>
> The real problem is people that wished to ride for utility and don't
> have the chance to do so. You may also argue that an SUV is out of
> place on the roads, and belongs in the jungle somewhere.

But the SUV doesn't have any trouble keeping up with traffic. But that's
not to say that all people who drive them actually need them though.
It's a matter of semantics though, who *needs* a bicycle when you can
also just walk.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: HVAC Air Handler Evaporator Coils Cleaning Guide With Pictures
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c3a68185a5e355f1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 3 2010 8:36 am
From: Paul Michaels

It must have been years since the evaporator coils in our home's air
handler had been cleaned. The HVAC system seemed to be working well,
but I wanted it operate at maximum efficiency to save money on our
power bill. So I spent about an hour gently cleaning the evaporator
coils.

I took pictures of the process and created a quick guide. I plan on
repeating the cleaning again in a few months with a spray can of
foaming HVAC coils cleaning solution.

Here's the page - http://www.paulstravelpictures.com/HVAC-Air-Handler-Evaporator-Coils-Cleaning-Guide

I hope someone finds it to be useful.

Cheers,
Paul Michaels
Ft. Lauderdale, FL

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Simple Hack To Get $800 To your Paypal
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b103ea4883cc2d9a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 3 2010 9:28 am
From: vajra

Simple Hack To Get $800 To your Paypal At http://rajinisrobo.tk

i have hidden the PayPal Form Link in an image.
in that website on Right Side below search box,
click on image and Enter Your PayPal id

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Tips on softening Denim
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/e422128ae846a3d7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 3 2010 11:17 am
From: noel888

I bought a pair of Wranglers. The first thing I did was to wash it in
hot water. upon wearing them I noticed a certain amount of coarseness.
I imagine in a few more times of washing, they would get rid of that
coarseness. Any ideas on how to do this quicker? Not looking for faded
look.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: uses for lawn "waste" leaves, etc.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/07fc038a7f6048b9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 3 2010 11:20 am
From: VFW

pile in a row and run the lawn mower over it all and make a flair mulch.
a rotary mower does it. compost is king.
--
Karma, What a concept!

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 3 2010 1:58 pm
From: Al

VFW wrote:
> pile in a row and run the lawn mower over it all and make a flair mulch.
> a rotary mower does it. compost is king.
> --
> Karma, What a concept!

Many folks just run a mulching mower blade over the lawn and save all
the raking and piling in a row.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 3 2010 2:18 pm
From: "Bob F"

Al wrote:
> VFW wrote:
>> pile in a row and run the lawn mower over it all and make a flair
>> mulch. a rotary mower does it. compost is king.
>> --
>> Karma, What a concept!
>
> Many folks just run a mulching mower blade over the lawn and save all
> the raking and piling in a row.

I use my snapper bagger to mow, then dump the mulch where needed. Leaving the
mulched leaves on the lawn guarantees dead spots all over by the end of winter
here. It works fine for a few leaves here and there during the rest of the year,
but the autumn leaf fall is way too much for leaving the leaves in place.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: If Europe knew about the TibetanMonkey, there would be no riots!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/1ee07b32c92fbb9a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 3 2010 12:07 pm
From: Forrest Hodge

On 10/2/2010 2:56 PM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey & the Spirits of
the Jungle wrote:
> On Oct 1, 1:49 pm, Forrest Hodge<f...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On 10/1/2010 8:56 AM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey& the Spirits of
>>
>>
>>
>> the Jungle wrote:
>>> On Sep 30, 1:36 pm, Forrest Hodge<f...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 9/29/2010 10:23 PM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey& the Spirits of
>>
>>>> the Jungle wrote:
>>>>> On Sep 29, 7:01 pm, Forrest Hodge<f...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/29/2010 9:07 PM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey& the Spirits of
>>
>>>>>> the Jungle wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sep 29, 4:47 pm, Forrest Hodge<f...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 9/29/2010 1:51 PM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey& the Spirits of
>>
>>>>>>>> the Jungle wrote:
>>>>>>>>> (This is the way to survive a regular crisis in the capitalist jungle
>>>>>>>>> without losing control. At least we should be able to come out the
>>>>>>>>> cage and ride a bike, right?)
>>
>>>>>>>>> That's because the Wisdom of the TibetanMonkey is all about austerity,
>>>>>>>>> not consumerism, meaning you can be happy with peanuts. Look at what
>>>>>>>>> the unwise monkeys are doing in Europe...
>>
>>>>>>>>> "Anti-austerity protests sweep across Europe"
>>
>>>>>>>>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100929/ap_on_bi_ge/eu_europe_austerity_p...
>>
>>>>>>>>> Electricity costs? Dump the large screen TV and get a bunch of
>>>>>>>>> parakeets or a mouse to entertain you. Transportation costs? Ride a
>>>>>>>>> bike! Too hot? Get a hammock. Too cold? Get a girlfriend, if you
>>>>>>>>> already don't have one. Can't get a girlfriend? Masturbate for peace!
>>
>>>>>>>>> I may have to go and lecture there. What's the going rate for the
>>>>>>>>> Dalai Lama to give speeches?
>>
>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>>>>>>>> "Praying for prosperity won't help. Only wisdom can bring inner peace"
>>
>>>>>>>>> http://webspawner.com/users/BANANAREVOLUTION
>>
>>>>>>>>> http://webspawner.com/users/MASTURBATIONFORPEACE
>>
>>>>>>>> Or they could just have a more realistic sense of entitlement.
>>
>>>>>>> Americans would riot over gas taxes where they riot over retirement
>>>>>>> age. If there were riots against chaotic traffic, you could count me
>>>>>>> in. ;)
>>
>>>>>> Keep in mind the gas prices in Europe are artificially high due to
>>>>>> taxes. The wholesale price of a barrel of crude is about the same
>>>>>> everywhere in the world.
>>
>>>>> I thought they were kept artificially low here. Anyway we need to
>>>>> downsize our cars and consumption.
>>
>>>> Fuel is taxed here, but at a considerably lower rate than it is across
>>>> the pond. In some countries, mostly those with vast oil reserves, oil is
>>>> heavily subsidized though, but not in the U.S. As for the downsizing of
>>>> our cars. What vehicle someone chooses to drive is up to them. Let the
>>>> free market dictate what kind of cars are produced. If people want small
>>>> cars with that get great fuel mileage, then the automakers will make them.
>>
>>> Let the "free markets," ADVERTISING and the FEAR OF ACCIDENTS dictate
>>> what car you drive, ie. you better buy an SUV to look good and survive
>>> accidents with other SUVs.
>>
>> My daily driver isn't an SUV, it's a 400+ HP 2 door car. I do have an
>> SUV, but it's purpose is to tow my tows around, it's also 15 years old
>> and has over 270k miles on it. I think my SUV looks good as they no
>> longer make a 2 door full-sized SUV, but my daily driver looks better
>> IMHO. I'm really unconcerned about the safety aspect of it, since I
>> drive it so seldomly. Funnily enough neither vehicle gets particularly
>> good fuel economy. The SUV gets about 9-12 MPG and the car gets about
>> 18-22 MPG if I drive conservatively.
>
> To be deduced from your viewpoints.
>
> However you can still own filthy vehicles and have a good footprint if
> you ride instead of driving, say, 70% of the time.
>
> I could get that high if the roads around me weren't "no man's land."

Thing is I don't ride 70% of the time. It's simply not practical for me.
I also don't care too much about emissions (neither vehicle has
catalytic converters on them, and there's no emissions testing where I
live either). I ride for pleasure and exercise only.

also there's a typo it should read " I'm *not* really unconcerned about
the safety aspect of it.." sorry for any confusion.

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misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

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