Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 13 topics

Sunday, July 15, 2007

25 new messages in 13 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: a point about China's problems
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c328870180227d9a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 15 2007 9:18 am
From: clams casino

wyznike wrote:

>
>
>www.nike-spam.cn
>We are cheap Shoes Wholesaler
>

Then there are the many slimy spammers from china.

They leave a great taste for China goods. .

== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 15 2007 10:56 am
From: Peter Bruells

"D." <djensen36@cox.net> writes:

> The fact is, people are starting to say "buy from Quality suppliers
> only." Until China has its forecasted huge improvement in quality,
> this will hurt their export market. And the argument that China can
> become like Japan makes no sense to me. That's because the culture in
> Japan lends itself to high-quality manufacturing (the same with
> Europe, the States, etc).

You do know that "Made in Germany" had been introduced to warn British
consumers that they were going to buy cheap rip-offs of British
quality products?

== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 15 2007 11:13 am
From: max

In article <m2myxxa6vc.fsf@rogue.ecce-terram.de>,
Peter Bruells <pb@ecce-terram.de> wrote:

> "D." <djensen36@cox.net> writes:
>
> > The fact is, people are starting to say "buy from Quality suppliers
> > only." Until China has its forecasted huge improvement in quality,
> > this will hurt their export market. And the argument that China can
> > become like Japan makes no sense to me. That's because the culture in
> > Japan lends itself to high-quality manufacturing (the same with
> > Europe, the States, etc).
>
> You do know that "Made in Germany" had been introduced to warn British
> consumers that they were going to buy cheap rip-offs of British
> quality products?

Insist on Genuine Lucas Replacement Parts!

== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 15 2007 11:22 am
From: "D."

On Jul 15, 10:56 am, Peter Bruells <p...@ecce-terram.de> wrote:
> "D." <djense...@cox.net> writes:
> > The fact is, people are starting to say "buy from Quality suppliers
> > only." Until China has its forecasted huge improvement in quality,
> > this will hurt their export market. And the argument that China can
> > become like Japan makes no sense to me. That's because the culture in
> > Japan lends itself to high-quality manufacturing (the same with
> > Europe, the States, etc).
>
> You do know that "Made in Germany" had been introduced to warn British
> consumers that they were going to buy cheap rip-offs of British
> quality products?

Things go in circles, don't they. The point is, China has screwed up
the deal. How long would it take you to forget the neighborhood
grocery that was later found to be selling you poisoned products? It
took at least two decades for "Made in Japan" to mean quality here in
the States, and perhaps that is what happened in England as well with
German products. It won't be something that happens quickly like one
poster said in this threa. It will take a long time, and during that
time there will be other countries that will end up being the low-cost
manufacturing partner for the world.

== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 15 2007 11:24 am
From: Peter Bruells

max <betatron@earthlink.net> writes:

> In article <m2myxxa6vc.fsf@rogue.ecce-terram.de>,
> Peter Bruells <pb@ecce-terram.de> wrote:
>
> > "D." <djensen36@cox.net> writes:
> >
> > > The fact is, people are starting to say "buy from Quality suppliers
> > > only." Until China has its forecasted huge improvement in quality,
> > > this will hurt their export market. And the argument that China can
> > > become like Japan makes no sense to me. That's because the culture in
> > > Japan lends itself to high-quality manufacturing (the same with
> > > Europe, the States, etc).
> >
> > You do know that "Made in Germany" had been introduced to warn British
> > consumers that they were going to buy cheap rip-offs of British
> > quality products?
>
> Insist on Genuine Lucas Replacement Parts!

You lost me. Is this part of an ad campaign?

== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 15 2007 11:46 am
From: PaPaPeng

On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 08:52:37 -0700, "D." <djensen36@cox.net> wrote:

>On Jul 13, 7:54 pm, PaPaPeng <PaPaP...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 19:20:45 -0700, Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to
>>
>> reply <mmea...@TRASHsonic.net> wrote:
>> >Maybe. The culture in Japan is different/better than the culture in
>> >China, where deception is considered socially acceptable.
>>
>> Then you are in really deep trouble. Try buying Made in USA only.
>
>No one is saying to "buy Made in USA only" . . . I think this Chinese
>PaPaPeng misunderstands.
>
>The fact is, people are starting to say "buy from Quality suppliers
>only." Until China has its forecasted huge improvement in quality,
>this will hurt their export market. And the argument that China can
>become like Japan makes no sense to me. That's because the culture in
>Japan lends itself to high-quality manufacturing (the same with
>Europe, the States, etc). The culture in China has shown the world
>that deception, lies, cheating, etc. is ingrained in society. You
>can't have drastic change occur overnight when the issue stems from
>culture. It will take far longer than some posters expect for China to
>change its stripes. We are still at the tip of the iceberg as far as
>new revelations go about Chinese tainted products and quality
>problems.
>
>I'm sure that there is plenty of deception and cheating in the USA, in
>Europe, etc, but there has been enough time to separate those
>practices from the product quality that results. We still see the
>occasional apartment building crumble because it was built sub-
>standard by cheating contractors . . . but when you go out for a
>burger, you're not getting any cardboard in your meat.
>
>D.

For more than 30 years the export to and consumption of China made
goods around the world had grown by leaps and bounds. In spite of the
latest campaign to smear not only these products but also to smear a
whole people and country the trade figures have gone ever higher.
Hundreds of millions of people worldwide are certainly no fools and
their buying behavoir is a thumping vote of confidence to discount the
smear campaign.

Look at your own retail sales figures and figure out what you want to
believe. The trade surplus in China's favor for 2007 is already >$200
billions. Even if a miniscule fraction of that is in shoddy or
dangerous goods the impact should be very significant, significant
enough to see real victims and real damages, thus consumer lawsuits.
Name one.

Thus far you have made your concerns known. That's not a problem. The
customer is always right in that if the producer does not meet
customer expectations he hasn't got a sale. The plight of many
American manufacturers whose product should meet all your product
safety and quality standards, attest to this.

Your administration has chosen to politicize the trade imbalance. The
inconsistent and strategically incomprehensible attacks are on many
fronts, military, political, social, religious and now this. The
shoddy-unsafe products issue has already faded from the headlines as
there are no more cases beyond the few thus far. It will have
disappeared from the headlines once the new school year starts or
sooner when another Bush scandal erupts.

In this lucrative environment there will be those who cheat. Cheating
requires two parties. The producer and the distributor since the
producer does not have direct contact or access with customers abroad.
As you (D) said cheating happens everywhere* and we will have to deal
with this as an ordinary crime be this be in the US or in China. It
is there but it is not widespread. My objection is the racist
sentiment that is often just under the surface of many in the States
that tars a whole people as sneaky, untrustworthy and evil. It is
futile and pointless to try to change the minds of such people. Its
in their DNA. To save a lot of argument I ask them to buy only Made
in USA.
*Your recent case of corprate malfeasance is far more insiduous than
anything out of China [On May 10th 2007, the Stamford,
Connecticut-based The Purdue Frederick Company, Inc., pleaded guilty
to felony charges that they purposely misbranded the painkiller
OxyContin with intent to mislead and defraud. Purdue and the three
executives will pay a total of $634,515,475. President and Chief
Operating Officer Michael Friedman, Executive Vice President and Chief
Legal Officer Howard Udell, and former Executive Vice President of
Worldwide Medical Affairs Paul D. Goldenheim, pleaded guilty to a
misdemeanor charge of misbranding OxyContin.]

If you have ever done any high school science courses the very first
paragraph of the original report on cardboard treated with caustic
soda and mixed with fatty pork should have set off your antenna right
away. Caustic soda is DRANO is sodium hydroxide. Handle that and you
get alkali burns on your hands. Wash it off promptly and your skin
feels soapy because the lye would have already reacted with the fat in
your skin to make soap. Cooking does not neutralize it. Read my
earlier reference links to the manufacture of rayon (wood pulp steeped
in lye) and the making of soap. There is no way you can add plup to
lye and fat and pass that off as ersatz meat. If you swallow that you
are more than gullible. You'll be drop dead and in extreme agony.
Furthermore CCTV is a government run TV channel. It doesn't do
expose's let alone a fabricated one.

In the same vein go to Wikipedia and read the accounts on melamine in
pet food and other current China products are poison reports. There's
a lot of suspicions and finger pointing but no definite proof damage
or linkage. In such matters caution is the better part of valor and
steps are being taken to remove these concerns. The customers'
perceptions and acceptance are paramount regardless of production
methods*.
*Recall the Alar controversy. Alar was ideal for protecting fruits
from insect bites that scar the fruit skin. Its harmless, good for
producing attractive fruits, extends storage, etc. But the campaign
to ban them was successful.

== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 15 2007 11:57 am
From: "D."

I would suggest anyone interested in this topic read the personal
views of this food reporter, who loves China, the Chinese people, and
Chinese food. Perhaps the problems are more widespread that PaPaPeng
would lead us to believe,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/6897844.stm

== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 15 2007 12:37 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

D. <djensen36@cox.net> wrote
> PaPaPeng <PaPaP...@yahoo.com> wrote
>> Melinda Meahan wrote
>> reply <mmea...@TRASHsonic.net> wrote

>>> Maybe. The culture in Japan is different/better than the culture
>>> in China, where deception is considered socially acceptable.

>> Then you are in really deep trouble. Try buying Made in USA only.

> No one is saying to "buy Made in USA only" . . .
> I think this Chinese PaPaPeng misunderstands.

> The fact is, people are starting to say "buy from Quality suppliers
> only." Until China has its forecasted huge improvement in quality,
> this will hurt their export market. And the argument that China can
> become like Japan makes no sense to me. That's because the
> culture in Japan lends itself to high-quality manufacturing (the
> same with Europe, the States, etc).

It wasnt always that way, they had the same reputation for
cheap crap at one time, likely before you were even born.

> The culture in China has shown the world that
> deception, lies, cheating, etc. is ingrained in society.

It happens in all societys.

> You can't have drastic change occur overnight when the issue stems
> from culture. It will take far longer than some posters expect for China
> to change its stripes. We are still at the tip of the iceberg as far as new
> revelations go about Chinese tainted products and quality problems.

Nope.

> I'm sure that there is plenty of deception and cheating in the
> USA, in Europe, etc, but there has been enough time to separate
> those practices from the product quality that results. We still see
> the occasional apartment building crumble because it was built
> sub-standard by cheating contractors . . . but when you go out
> for a burger, you're not getting any cardboard in your meat.

You do get salmonella etc tho. And mad cow in england too.

== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 15 2007 12:43 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

D. <djensen36@cox.net> wrote
> Peter Bruells <p...@ecce-terram.de> wrote
>> D. <djense...@cox.net> writes

>>> The fact is, people are starting to say "buy from Quality suppliers
>>> only." Until China has its forecasted huge improvement in quality,
>>> this will hurt their export market. And the argument that China can
>>> become like Japan makes no sense to me. That's because the culture
>>> in Japan lends itself to high-quality manufacturing (the same with
>>> Europe, the States, etc).

>> You do know that "Made in Germany" had been introduced
>> to warn British consumers that they were going to buy cheap
>> rip-offs of British quality products?

> Things go in circles, don't they.

Some do, some dont.

We wont be seeing a return to absolute monarchys
or the Japs attempting to rule the world again.

> The point is, China has screwed up the deal.

They aint the only ones to have done that. Forgotten mad cow already ?

> How long would it take you to forget the neighborhood grocery
> that was later found to be selling you poisoned products?

Not as long as to forget about mad cow in hamburgers.

> It took at least two decades for "Made in Japan" to
> mean quality here in the States, and perhaps that is
> what happened in England as well with German products.

Its much more complicated than that with cars for example.

> It won't be something that happens quickly like one poster said in this threa.
> It will take a long time, and during that time there will be other countries
> that will end up being the low-cost manufacturing partner for the world.

Sure, but they are often worse with food particularly.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Walgreen printer cart refills
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e8d0982d83a41da6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 15 2007 9:29 am
From: Ken Knecht

On a related note, I was in Wal-Mart yesterday and didn't see the Nu-Kote
remanufactured inkjet cartridges they used to sell. My only choice there
now seems to be the HP cartridges, which are quite expensive. I'll have
to see what Staples has in case the Walgreen refills don't work out.

Ken Knecht <kenkknot@deruknot.com> wrote in
news:Xns996DA2F86CEFBkenkderucom@140.99.23.22:

> Anyone tried the $10 injet cartridge refills at Walgreens? How long
> does it actually take them to refill a cartridge? Do the cartridges
> work well? I have a black HP 832 cartridge I'm tempted to try.
>
> TIA
>
>
>

--
Untie the two knots to email me

Every silver lining has a cloud.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Documentary 'The Future of Food' about the threat posed by genetically
modified food & Monsanto
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a7a63ee5212f6bfb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 15 2007 9:38 am
From: Sparrow

See the video at http://Muvy.org

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bush appointed 100+ lobbyists to become government regulators. Even the
mafia never had it that good.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d9e055506d4f1f93?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 15 2007 10:16 am
From: Useful Info

Read about it at http://Muvy.org

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 32 ways to save when grocery shopping
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0221966a7a6eacc2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 15 2007 10:17 am
From: val189

On Jul 12, 10:13 pm, Ablang <ron...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 32 ways to save when grocery shopping
>
> By Bankrate.com
>
> # Trim your food bill by as much as 19 percent simply by shopping at a
> couple of different stores.

I've tried this - waste of time and gas - you have to scout em before
you can make a decision and have to hit store #1 twice.

> # Seek out supermarkets that will double -- some super stores even
> triple -- the face value of manufacturers' coupons.

None in my area - haven't seen that since the early eighties.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Instantly Turn your Computer into a Super TV

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7dda214d6208c036?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 15 2007 10:29 am
From: "yanarai20@gmail.com"

Instantly Turn your Computer into a Super TV

* Watch all your favorite shows on your Computer & TV!
* Channels you can't get any other place in the U.S.A!
* Watch from anywhere in the world!
* Save 1000's of $$$ over many years on cable and satellite bills
* INSTANT DOWNLOAD
* And much, much more!

For More Details: http://tvonpc.xt.cx

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 15 2007 10:54 am
From: George Grapman

gmail poster with a web site asking for a credit card with no contact
info,

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Wholesale NIKE .AF1.TN.Jordan.shoes http://www.new-nikeshoes.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b2aaf6e8bff02a9f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 15 2007 10:49 am
From: new-nikeshoes

hi
We are wholesaler of Nike Jordan and Other Shoes in China. We are big
Shoes Manufacturer in China. We supply many kinds of Shoes, such as
Nike Shoes, Jordan 1-22, Air Jordan, AF1, DUNK, Air max series etc.
Most of them are in stock and can be supplied surely on time. All
these shoes are packed with original-boxes and cards. So we can offer
series of brand Nike shoe with the lowest price and high quality, We
are looking forward to doing business with you

Very fast and safety delivery by TNT, UPS, DHL OR EMS, we can delivery
within 24 hours upon receiving your payment. It is very safe door to
door service, never get problems with customs.

There are various and latest styles for your choice in our website.
Our main markets are the USA, the UK, Germany, France, Italy, Greece,
Jordan, Australia, Canada,Sweden, and many other countries in Europe
and the Middle East regions.

We insist the principia: Prestige first,high-quality,competitive
price,
best services,and timely delivery.
Website: http://www.new-nikeshoes.com

msn: zhushao999@hotmail.com
Hong-da Co., Ltd.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Wholesale Mobile Phones Nokia http://www.new-nikeshoes.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4f6938419d6a5c23?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 15 2007 10:50 am
From: new-nikeshoes

hi
We have all models of nokia
NOKIA N95 $300
NOKIA N93 $250
NOKIA N92 $230
NOKIA N91 $220
NOKIA N80 $210
NOKIA N90 $220
Nokia N70 $210
NOKIA N73 $230
NOKIA 7600 (UNLOCK) $210
Nokia 8800 Sirocco Gold Edtion -$290
Nokia 8800 Sirocco Black$290

(1).all products are all original and new
(2).they have 1year international warranty.
(3).free shipping include ems, tnt, dhl, ups. you may choose one kind
(4).deliver time is in 7 days to get your door
We insist the principia: Prestige first,high-quality,competitive
price,
best services,and timely delivery.
Website: http://www.new-nikeshoes.com

msn: zhushao999@hotmail.com
Hong-da Co., Ltd.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal things mom does
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ac944c1cff9731ce?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 15 2007 11:31 am
From: Steve

http://www.wisebread.com/frugal-things-my-mom-does-part-1-packet-squeezing

When our ketchup bottle gets low, mom pulls out a funnel, the
scissors, and the infamous ketchup drawer from the refrigerator. She
then proceeds to spend an hour or more clipping the tops off 10,000
ketchup packets, and squeeze them into the bottle. When she's
finished, we have a nice, full bottle of ketchup.

Advertising is the science of arresting the human intelligence long enough to get money from it.

...Stephen Leacock

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 15 2007 2:01 pm
From: "Melissa"

"Steve" <dbn@whc.inv> wrote in message
news:ctpk93ddmuo9pd8jflbdk2p5di45bt8m0d@4ax.com...
>
> http://www.wisebread.com/frugal-things-my-mom-does-part-1-packet-squeezing
>
> When our ketchup bottle gets low, mom pulls out a funnel, the
> scissors, and the infamous ketchup drawer from the refrigerator. She
> then proceeds to spend an hour or more clipping the tops off 10,000
> ketchup packets, and squeeze them into the bottle. When she's
> finished, we have a nice, full bottle of ketchup.
>

10,000 ketchup packets? How many trips to a non-frugal fast food place does
it take to store up that many packets of ketchup.

You're either an idiot or a troll. Probably both.

Melissa

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Download Latest Audio/Video Albums Free Amazing
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7b18454596f2817c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 15 2007 12:05 pm
From: Sameer

Download Hottest 3GP Music Videos www.super3gp.com
also mp3 and mobile wallpapers amazing website
no more wait

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Adventure travel for "HOT INDIAN GIRLS" from Europe to India
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c5b5aa41de066a2d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 15 2007 12:21 pm
From: kiran-travelfury

. " DUTCHMAN WANTS SEX, PAYS MORE FOR"LESS"!

This news caught my eyes in yesterday's "The Times of India", Mumbai
edition, on page13, dated July 14th,2007.

Great! The guy flies to Kolkata, India from Europe to have a sex with
"Hot Indian Girls" for a night, spends sometime (?) without paying
advance, takes them to ATM center, wants sex, strikes a deal, pays and
takes them to his hotel but refused entry at the hotel, gets furious
at the hotel and the girls for not paying back his advance and reports
the matter to the police who were in a fix!

Well well... the moral of the story is "verify everything before you
land in an alien country".

Don't let your baton hit your brains!!

The best is to avoid such erotic adventures in a foreign land but if
you have an incurable itch then...

CHECK LIST:
· Whether the prostitution is legalized in a country you intend
visiting
· Find out on Internet- views, experiences, precautions about a
particular "red light area"
· Whether your hotel allows lady guests in your room in the night
· If possible never go alone
· Do your home work, pick class. You get dirt in $75 for a night (Rs.
3000), in any country!

India has incredible exotic holiday places for pleasure and fun where
you can take your partner and enjoy

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 15 2007 12:21 pm
From: kiran-travelfury

. " DUTCHMAN WANTS SEX, PAYS MORE FOR"LESS"!

This news caught my eyes in yesterday's "The Times of India", Mumbai
edition, on page13, dated July 14th,2007.

Well well... the moral of the story is "verify everything before you
land in an alien country".

Don't let your baton hit your brains!!

The best is to avoid such erotic adventures in a foreign land but if
you have an incurable itch then...

India has incredible exotic holiday places for pleasure and fun where
you can take your partner and enjoy

For news in detail and other places visit:
http://aceguide.blogspot.com
http://www.epaper.timesofindia.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Where to buy cables
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2c33d0f4b582a49f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 15 2007 12:52 pm
From: Gordon

kramer31 <kramer.newsreader@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1184478467.182648.78470@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com:

> Thanks for the ideas, everyone. We live in Portland, OR.
>
> I did some poking around here and found this cool store:
>
> http://www.freegeek.org/
>
> It looks like a Goodwill for computer parts!
>

WHAT!! You live in Portland, OR!?? Why did you not say
so? Look, pick up a copy of Computer Chips at your local
PC Shop. THere are several surplus shops in Portland and
Vancouver that sell cables at reasonable prices. You got
Wacky Willies and Surplus Gizmos to name two. THen if you
are near Corniluis PAss road you go to PCH Cables. They
have a well stocked store and the lowest prices on new
cables anywhere.

And Free Geek is great. Think about vollintering(sp) there
sometime. But their stock is limited to what happens to
come in their door. They also don't always know what they
get in. I was working in recieving one day and they got
a bunch of SATA power adaptors and data cables. THey
just recycled them.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 15 2007 12:57 pm
From: "Travis Jordan"

"kramer31" wrote ...
> Any suggestions?

Sure.

www.monoprice.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: sweat as a frugal substitute for shaving lather
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2c6cb177ce66d6b3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 15 2007 1:30 pm
From: Dennis

On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 07:46:32 -0700, "Roger Shoaf"
<shoaf@nospamsyix.com> wrote:

>I don't know if my whiskers are softer than average or what, but my usual
>routine is to remove the bulk of my beard in the shower by feel when I am
>hot wet and soapy then when I get out of the shower, and my skin is still
>damp I wet the razor and catch anything I missed in the shower.

During periods when I shave my whole face (i.e., not bearded), I
usually shave in the shower. I use a special mirror that someone gave
me (probably purchased from The Sharper Image or something similar).
It attaches between the shower pipe and shower head and circulates
some of the hot water behind the mirror so it doesn't steam up. It
works great. I get nice close shaves with no muss nor fuss.

Dennis (evil)
--
I'm a hands-on, footloose, knee-jerk head case. -George Carlin

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Decking Sheets Manufacturers and Suppliers in Mumbai; March 24, 2017 at 11:41 PM

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