Frugal Living: 20 new messages in 12 topics

Thursday, September 6, 2007

20 new messages in 12 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Anyone have a nice oat bread recipe?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1696a5786dd5cfec?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 6 2007 9:03 am
From: et472@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Michael Black)

Binyamin Dissen (postingid@dissensoftware.com) writes:
> Without wheat or spelt flour.
>
> Seems like all the recipes I have found require wheat flour.
>
They have these things called books, which can be bought at places
called bookstores, or even borrowed at places called libraries.
These "books" include many devoted to recipes, and even specifically
to recipes about making bread.

A websearch would also turn up many such recipes, I'm sure.

There are even newsgroups devoted to the topic, such
as
alt.bread.recipes
rec.food.baking

Given all this, I can't figure out why you think this is such
a frugal issue that you ask in a newsgroup devoted to frugality.

Michael

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Home colleged to save 200k?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/30cb6a598b2763bf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 6 2007 9:20 am
From: "Jessica V."

On Sep 5, 10:23 pm, Logan Shaw <lshaw-use...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> oprah.cho...@gmail.com wrote:
> > It now costs almost $200,000 to send a kid to a typical private
> > college. Supposedely tuition has outpaced inflation over the last 10
> > years due to several reasons.
>
> I believe it.
>
> > I wonder if we will see more kids 'home-colleged'? Will any grad.
> > school accept such students?
>
> Hopefully not, and probably not.
>
> > What are some frugal alternatives to
> > this 200k price tag?
>
> A public college. There are some good values to be had at certain
> state schools which nonetheless supply a very solid education. Also,
> scholarships and grants.
>
> Another alternative is to spend the first 1 or 2 years at a cheaper
> school. You can take English and calculus at just about any decent
> school. Then transfer to the other school later, and you still get
> a diploma with their (hopefully prestigious) name on it. In some
> cases, this could reduce the quality of the education you get, but
> in some cases perhaps not. It probably depends on the individual
> schools and the major.
>
> Yet another strategy is to take basics like English at a cheap
> community college during the summer. That's similar to the strategy
> of spending your first couple of years elsewhere, but it allows you
> to carefully pick and choose which classes you think are worth taking
> at the "real" (expensive) school.
>
> And one more strategy is to test out of as much as possible. Go to
> a good high school and take AP or IB classes (or whatever they're
> doing now), then study hard and take every equivalence test you
> think you have odds of passing. This saves time *and* money.
>
> - Logan

Many colleges offer reduced cost courses to high school students who
have met the prerequisites for the courses offered and have at least a
B average in their high school classes. Both high school and college
credit is granted for successful completion. At the private college
where I once worked the tuition for HS students was $100 a course.

Bundle that with AP courses and Clep tests and it is possible to enter
college with the first two years already completed.

Summer course offerings from community colleges and state universities
can offer savings as well on core curriculum. I do not know how
frequently this occurs, but I have taken summer courses at the nearby
community college taught by well known professors from NYU, UNE, Brown
and Yale.

There are many ways to save both time and money on higher education.
Yet another consideration is if a degree from a private college is
really going to result in a better education and greater earning power
than the same degree from a state university.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 6 2007 1:08 pm
From: Usenet2007@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG

In article <TrVDi.6045$tY2.2350@trndny01>, derjda@hotmail.com
says...

> "Logan Shaw" <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:46dfc2a3$0$16517$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

> > planned to meet all the requirements to graduate early. Then along
> > came H. Ross Perot, who spearheaded efforts to reform the Texas public
> > schools[1]. Along with the "no pass, no play" rule came a "no graduate
> > early, no matter if you've fulfilled 100% of the requirements" rule.

> the reason for that is because schools get a per capita subsidy from
> the federal govt. if you graduate early, you screw the district out
> of that portion of the subsidy. this is also why districts are so strict
> in how many days you can miss. they claim that it's for the sake of
> the student, but if a student has mono and the dr says no school for 4
> weeks, the student can do the work at home, but won't be passed to
> the next grade. because they didn't show up for the head count, the
> district will make sure to get that money and then some the next year.
> this actually happened in a district we lived in; the kid was an a/b
> student and fully capable of keeping up while at home.

I suspect that it goes further than just the head count. As I
understand it, US school districts - and the teachers therein -
are partly judged on performance. Specifically, the scores that
their students receive on yearly standardised tests.

The kids who are capable of graduating early (or just dropping
out to get a GED at, say, sixteen) are the ones who would do
well on those tests.

So, allowing them to graduate early, would result in a lower
average quality of students. And lower average test scores.
Which would make the school district and teachers look bad. They
don't care about the imposition on the higher-quality students.

Some states actually have (or at least used to have) a minimum
age of eighteen to take a GED test. To discourage kids leaving
high school before then. But the rule also applied to kids who
already weren't in school, and weren't going be. Including those
who were "home-schooled" and wanted the piece of paper so they
could get a job.

--
Get Credit Where Credit Is Due
http://www.cardreport.com/
Credit Tools, Reference, and Forum

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 6 2007 4:18 pm
From: Beeblebrox

Duke of Hazard wrote:
> On Sep 5, 9:23 pm, Logan Shaw <lshaw-use...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>Yet another strategy is to take basics like English at a cheap
>>community college during the summer. That's similar to the strategy
>>of spending your first couple of years elsewhere, but it allows you
>>to carefully pick and choose which classes you think are worth taking
>>at the "real" (expensive) school.
>
>
> My friends did this recently , but almost none of their credits
> transferred to their prestigious 4-year college ( ranked in top 10 )!

you're supposed to check it out beforehand

>
>
>>And one more strategy is to test out of as much as possible. Go to
>>a good high school and take AP or IB classes (or whatever they're
>>doing now), then study hard and take every equivalence test you
>>think you have odds of passing. This saves time *and* money.
>>
>> - Logan
>
>
> Not sure if this is much value at a top school either. I dont think
> they offer such tests and even if they did all it will let you do is
> enroll in a more difficult class to begin with.
>

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 6 2007 4:35 pm
From: "Lou"

<oprah.chopra@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1189044111.378564.61520@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> It now costs almost $200,000 to send a kid to a typical private
> college. Supposedely tuition has outpaced inflation over the last 10
> years due to several reasons.
>
> I wonder if we will see more kids 'home-colleged'? Will any grad.
> school accept such students? What are some frugal alternatives to
> this 200k price tag?

When some of these graduates can step out of school and into a job paying
100K, it might not be such a bad deal.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cost of Pierogies?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c0e499071a18aa12?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 6 2007 10:46 am
From: Vic Smith

On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 20:32:57 -0500, barbie gee
<barbie.gee@NOSESPAMgmail.com> wrote:

>
>and potato cheese ones maybe tasty, but they're really not the best
>example of pierogi at their best..
>
Sure they are.

--Wik

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 6 2007 12:55 pm
From: James

On Sep 3, 2:39 pm, "OhioGuy" <n...@none.net> wrote:
> Some of you out there may not know what a pierogie is. It is essentially
> a mashed potato with cheese inside of a dumpling. They were popular in
> Eastern Europe. Evidently lots of Eastern Europeans moved up into that
> area, because it is a mining town.
>
> When we drove up into Canada this summer, we bought pierogies from a
> grocery store, (some sort of chain with a green maple leaf as their symbol)
> and got a 2 pound bag (yes, some things are still labelled in pounds up
> there, as well as metric) for $1.30 Canadian. I think that's about $1.20
> U.S.
>
> Anyway, when I got back down here, I remembered getting that deal, and
> that it was an everyday price. I looked around, and the best price I seem
> to be able to find is $1.20 for a 1 pound box at Save-A-Lot. A chain called
> "Deal$" used to have a 2 pound box around here for $1 or $1.50, but they no
> longer carry it.
>
> Around here, we have Meijer, Kroger, Wal-Mart, Super K-Mart, Target, Cub
> Foods, Save-A-Lot, Aldi's, and the independent IGA grocery stores.
>
> I'd like to ask folks to do me a favor, please, and next time you're in
> the grocery store, please look and see how much pierogies are, ok? (they are
> in the frozen food section) Then post the price (and size) here. I'm
> wondering if I can get a deal somewhere down here similar to what we found
> up in Canada.
>
> Thanks!

Might have been Safeway - don't have them where I am (Ontario).

That was an extraordinary price. I'm use to paying $2.99 for a 1kg
(about 2.2 lbs) at Loblaws for them.

I've had many home made ones, at restaurants and in people's homes.

There is a difference between the Polish and Ukranian way of serving
them. Most Ukranians first boil, then fry them. The frying or browning
takes place in a pan full of onions and either bacon or chopped ham.

Even commerical ones taste great when you brown them that way. Of
course it isn't the healthiest method, especially when you add sour
cream on the side....

James

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 6 2007 1:23 pm
From: "pepita@prodigy.net"

On Sep 3, 2:39 pm, "OhioGuy" <n...@none.net> wrote:
>> I'd like to ask folks to do me a favor, please, and next time you're in
> the grocery store, please look and see how much pierogies are, ok?

The only ones that I would buy are those produced by the ladies group
at the local Polish Catholic Church.
They are available on Fridays only, and cost $5. per dozen.
Definitely worth the extra $$$$

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 6 2007 1:37 pm
From: Vic Smith

On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 12:55:58 -0700, James <jlinn@idirect.com> wrote:

>
>Might have been Safeway - don't have them where I am (Ontario).
>
>That was an extraordinary price. I'm use to paying $2.99 for a 1kg
>(about 2.2 lbs) at Loblaws for them.
>
>I've had many home made ones, at restaurants and in people's homes.
>
>There is a difference between the Polish and Ukranian way of serving
>them. Most Ukranians first boil, then fry them. The frying or browning
>takes place in a pan full of onions and either bacon or chopped ham.
>
>Even commerical ones taste great when you brown them that way. Of
>course it isn't the healthiest method, especially when you add sour
>cream on the side....
>
My wife (Polish) fries some chopped bacon on the side and when the
pirogi come from the water she drains them, then pours some chopped
bacon/fat over them. Not heavy, sort of like of like you would
vinaigrette a salad.
That's when I like them best. She only fries them the next day to
warm 'em up. Like them too (-:
I swore off sour cream except on golumbki

--Vic

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Washington Post: As Latrinos come, Poverty rises in the US
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c34f2346d5fe7031?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 6 2007 12:25 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Day Brown <daybrown@hughes.net> wrote
> Ted <tedor...@hotmail.com> wrote

>> Poverty is the destiny of these low IQ invading parasites. But they
>> bring social decay, disease, and crime is more important. In the long term
>> the invaders are a menace> to the environment via population growth.

> Gibbon reported that the aristocracy encouraged immigration of cheap
> labor to Rome from tribes that lacked sound republican traditions.
> Machiavelli noted how they funded the campaigns of demagogues
> pandering to their ethnic and religious sensibilities while making
> hidden deals to reduce the taxes on the rich. He went on to note how
> republics do this, and not being able to tax the people with the
> money, *borrow* it from them. This works until some creditor sees that
> the tax base will no longer service the debt, much less pay it off,
> and refuses to lend more.

> Of course, in time, this led to financial crisis.

And then we worked out how to fix that problem with taxation.

Sure, the europeans got a bit carried away there for a while,
but eventually came to their senses and it works pretty well now.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Guaranteed Winner! Fast Payouts Lots of ads! PTR
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/64400acb9a4dd264?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 6 2007 1:22 pm
From: Ants

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Anthony

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Making Money Online is Easy!!! Don't Miss This Opportunity!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c618b1485d77f171?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 6 2007 1:59 pm
From: Chris

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2) A PayPal account
3) $6.00

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compounding. And in a big way, let me tell you. This system is THE
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and that is why this system has been raved about in the media.
Altering the system creates weak results. The legality of this system
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and "service" is being provided (more on that late.) Now on to how
your $6.00 create BIG money...

INSTRUCTIONS:

STEP 1:
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After that, if you are not already a PayPal user you need to go to the
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STEP 2:
Here is where the action occurs. The first thing to do is to send a
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1. Login to PayPal and click on the "Send Money" tab near the top of
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3. In the "Amount" field enter "1: (This is your $1.00 payment)
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2) iceman_stallion@yahoo.com
3) dezmund99@yahoo.com
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5) jamecontal@hotmail.com
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: ot: for all you firefox fans out there
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c16993feda789fe7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 6 2007 3:14 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

http://www.oddee.com/item_88547.aspx

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 6 2007 3:22 pm
From: ToMh

On Sep 6, 2:14 pm, "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <der...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> http://www.oddee.com/item_88547.aspx

Now if it didn't keep crashing and hanging, and would actually work on
all websites, you could possibly get rid of IE.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Essay on indian cow.... Very Funny must read ....
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/aa54856c7d9c8dfc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 6 2007 4:23 pm
From: Beeblebrox

avtar wrote:
> He is the cow. "The cow is a successful animal. Also he is 4 footed,
> And because he is female, he give milks, but will do so when he is got
> child. He is same like-God, sacred to Hindus and useful to man. But he
> has got four legs together. Two are forward and two are afterwards..
> His whole body can be utilised for use. More so the milk. Milk comes
> from 4 taps attached to his basement. Horses dont have any such
> attachment. What can it do? Various ghee, butter, cream, curd, why and
> the condensed milk and so forth. Also he is useful to cobbler,
> watermans and mankind enerally. His motion is slow only because he is
> of lazy species., Also his other motion.. gober is much useful to
> trees, plants as well as for making flat cakes [like Pizza ] , in
> hand , and drying in the sun..
>
> Cow is the only animal that extricates his feeding after eating. Then
> afterwards she chew with his teeth whom are situated in the inside of
> the mouth. He is incessantly in the meadows in the grass. His only
> attacking and defending organ is the horns, specially so when he is
> got child.. This is done by ....
>
> To read full essay please click on ...

http://www.singhisking.net/essayoncow.html
>
> Thanks and regards
> Avtar --- Always a good friend.
>

sounds like computer translation, badly

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The road to a free iPod (trip report)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c70bd216f8c66f36?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 6 2007 5:12 pm
From: Gordon

"AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:ZsVDi.11822$Ov2.6627@trndny06:

>
> "Gordon" <gonzo@alltomyself.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns99A2D9A885A72greederxprtnet@199.45.49.11...
>> For those of you just joining us. A few months ago I noticed
>> that Key Bank was offering free iPods to people who opened
>> new checking accounts. So I thought I'd milk the system
>> and get me one.
>>
>> Of course there are conditions that need to be met.
>>
>> So far I have had my employer change my direct deposit
>> of my paycheck to Keybank. I have a few "Starter checks"
>> that I can use to move the money over to my existing bank.
>> So that's good. When I run out of starter checks I'll
>> change the direct deposit back over to my existing bank,
>>
>> Just to be sure tho; I called my insurance agent and had them
>> change the billing on my car insurance to get it over $100.00
>> per payment. Then I had them change to a direct debit of tthe
>> key bank account.
>>
>> So if all goes as planned, I'll have met the requirment for
>> two automatic transactions over $100.00.
>>
>> The only other requirement is to keep the account open for 3
>> months. (6 if I want to avoid the early account close out fee).
>
> so, do you feel it is worth the hassle?
>
>

Just a couple of quick phone calls.
And since I have to go to the bank anyway, what's another
check to deposit??

==============================================================================
TOPIC: My swamp cooler / box fan . . . review
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0f6479deacc6ec73?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 6 2007 5:50 pm
From: Abby Normal

On Aug 15, 4:51 am, nicksans...@ece.villanova.edu wrote:
> Tockk <to...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >I bought one of these a while ago:
>
> http://www.electric-fan.com/product/BFC2200.aspx
>
> >for about 1/3 off, and it's been rainy and humid here in the Dallas area for
> >the past while. Haven't had the chance to use it until yesterday, when it
> >was hot and 33% humidity (according to the TV weatherman).
>
> The ASHRAE 55-2004 comfort standard says that's very hot, with a predicted
> mean vote of 3.07 on a scale of -3 (very cold) to 0 (perfectly comfortable)
> to +3 (very hot.)
>
> T (C) RH% Clo PMV PPD%
>
> 35 33 .5 3.07171 99.38564
>
> The standard predicts that 99.38564% of people surveyed would be dissatisfied.
>
> >I fired it up, and used a thermometer to read the temperature of air going
> >in vs. air coming out. In my apartment, it read 95 degrees going in to the
> >fan, and 84 coming out of the fan.
>
> The web site says it moves 415 cfm, and 1 Btu/h can cool 1 cfm about 1 F
> and 1000 Btu can evaporate 1 pound of water, so you were cooling the air by
> about 415(95-84) = 4565 Btu/h with about 4.565 pounds per hour of water.
>
> With an outdoor vapor pressure Po = 0.33e^(17.863-9621/(460+95)) = 0.559 "Hg
> (using a Clausius-Clapeyron approximation--ask Caryn), and humidity ratio
> wo = 0.62198/(29.921/Po-1) = 0.00185 pounds of water per pound of dry air
> (1 ft^3 of 70 F air weighs 0.075 pounds), 4.565 = 60x415x0.075(wi-wo) makes
> wi = 0.014295 and Pi = 0.6877 "Hg with a 57.6% RH indoors, which would be
> a lot more comfy:
>
> T (C) RH% Clo PMV PPD%
>
> 28.88889 57.6 .5 .8197596 19.1735
>
> Only 19.1735% of the people would be dissatisfied.
>
> If you could evaporate 6 vs 4.565 pounds of water per hour, you could lower
> the outdoor air temp to 80.5 F with wi = 0.01506 and a 66.3% RH, which would
> be even more comfy:
>
> T (C) RH% Clo PMV PPD%
>
> 26.94445 66.3 .5 6.351899E02 5.083534
>
> The ASHRAE comfort zone is defined by -0.5 < PMV < 0.5. They also limit
> the humidity ratio to 0.0120 max, so wi = 0.014295 is outside the zone,
> even though the calc below suggests it would be close to perfectly
> comfortable, with 5.083534 Per cent of People Dissatisfied.
> (You can't please everyone with one condition.)
>
> >As far as ability to cool a room, well, it's limited.
>
> You may be cooling more outdoor air than you need.
>
> >I have two windows seperated by about 6 feet of wall space. I put
> >the cooler-fan in front of one window, and I have another fan
> >in the other window that pushes the air to the outside.
>
> You might enjoy moving the cooler into the room and only running it when
> the room temp rises to 80.5 F with a thermostat, and only running the fan
> when the room RH rises to 66.3%, with a humidistat, eg this one:
>
> http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/itemDetailsRender.shtml?ItemId=1...
>
> >It holds a few gallons of water, which isn't enough for an 8 hour run.
>
> If you are only cooling the room and C cfm of outdoor air with P pounds
> of water per hour, and the room thermal conductance is (say) 50 Btu/h-F,
> 1000P = (95-80.5)(50+C) and P = 60C0.075(wi-wo) make P = 1.73 lb/h and
> C = 120 cfm, so the 3.25 gallon reservoir would last 3.25x8.33/1.73 =
> 15.6 hours.
>
> 50 CLO =.5'clothing insulation (clo)
> 60 MET=1.1'metabolic rate (met)
> 70 WME=0'external work (met)
> 80 TA=(80.5-32)/1.8'air temp (C)
> 90 TR=TA'mean radiant temp (C)
> 100 VEL=.5'air velocity
> 120 RH=66.3'relative humidity (%)
> 130 PA=0'water vapor pressure
> 140 DEF FNPS(T)=EXP(16.6536-4030.183/(TA+235))'sat vapor pressure, kPa
> 150 IF PA=0 THEN PA=RH*10*FNPS(TA)'water vapor pressure, Pa
> 160 ICL=.155*CLO'clothing resistance (m^2K/W)
> 170 M=MET*58.15'metabolic rate (W/m^2)
> 180 W=WME*58.15'external work in (W/m^2)
> 190 MW=M-W'internal heat production
> 200 IF ICL<.078 THEN FCL=1+1.29*ICL ELSE FCL=1.05+.645*ICL'clothing factor
> 210 HCF=12.1*SQR(VEL)'forced convection conductance
> 220 TAA=TA+273'air temp (K)
> 230 TRA=TR+273'mean radiant temp (K)
> 250 TCLA=TAA+(35.5-TA)/(3.5*(6.45*ICL+.1))'est clothing temp
> 260 P1=ICL*FCL:P2=P1*3.96:P3=P1*100:P4=P1*TAA'intermediate values
> 300 P5=308.7-.028*MW+P2*(TRA/100)^4
> 310 XN=TCLA/100
> 320 XF=XN
> 330 N=0'number of iterations
> 340 EPS=.00015'stop iteration when met
> 350 XF=(XF+XN)/2'natural convection conductance
> 360 HCN=2.38*ABS(100*XF-TAA)^.25
> 370 IF HCF>HCN THEN HC=HCF ELSE HC=HCN
> 380 XN=(P5+P4*HC-P2*XF^4)/(100+P3*HC)
> 390 N=N+1
> 400 IF N>150 GOTO 550
> 410 IF ABS(XN-XF)>EPS GOTO 350
> 420 TCL=100*XN-273'clothing surface temp (C)
> 440 HL1=.00305*(5733-6.99*MW-PA)'heat loss diff through skin
> 450 IF MW>58.15 THEN HL2=.42*(MW-58.15) ELSE HL2=0'heat loss by sweating
> 460 HL3=.000017*M*(5867-PA)'latent respiration heat loss
> 470 HL4=.0014*M*(34-TA)'dry respiration heat loss
> 480 HL5=3.96*FCL*(XN^4-(TRA/100)^4)'heat loss by radiation
> 490 HL6=FCL*HC*(TCL-TA)'heat loss by convection
> 510 TS=.303*EXP(-.036*M)+.028'thermal sensation transfer coefficient
> 520 PMV=TS*(MW-HL1-HL2-HL3-HL4-HL5-HL6)'predicted mean vote
> 530 PPD=100-95*EXP(-.03353*PMV^4-.2179*PMV^2)'predicted % dissatisfied
> 540 GOTO 580
> 550 PMV=99999!:PPD=100
> 580 PRINT TA,RH,CLO,PMV,PPD
>
> T (C) RH% Clo PMV PPD%
>
> 35 33 .5 3.07171 99.38564
> 28.88889 57.6 .5 .8197596 19.1735
> 26.94445 66.3 .5 6.351899E02 5.083534
>
> Nick

Am I reading you correct that you are finally using outside air?

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 6 2007 5:51 pm
From: Abby Normal

On Aug 15, 9:49 pm, "Tockk" <to...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Wow . . . now that's what I call a post . . .
> Thanks,
> --Tock

Nick has been learning evaporative cooling for a couple years online
now, he may understand it one day yet :-)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Dr. Oogle finds a dentist
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b2f5a50472511152?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 6 2007 7:25 pm
From: p

Has anyone used dr. oogle to find a dentist? Is this site any good?
Wonder how they can judge which review are real and which are fake?

www.doctoroogle.com/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Driveway width
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/327c9437490728a7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 6 2007 8:01 pm
From: info@1-script.com (spendwize.com)

Any driveway that's attaching to a road has to be approved by the entity
owning the road. It would be foolish at best for your neighbor to not have
this approved by the township, university or whoever owns the road. In
case of a township, I imagine such approval would be a public record. In
case of a university - I don't know but it may be useful for you to find
out. If he did not get this approved, you can get him to at least pay a
fine. Not sure what your intentions are though: do you also want to limit
parking in front of YOUR house?

-------------------------------------
Jack Ricci wrote:

> All houses on the street are built on lots that are 60' wide, and all
> have two car garages. All garages have driveways that lead into the
> street and slope down to the street by becoming wider by two feet on
> each side angling up toward the curb so as not to drop too suddenly on
> the street. A neighbor has recently rebuilt his driveway, but instead
> of
> a two-foot widening on each side has built a 3-foot slope on each side,

> thus reducing on street parking to less cars in front of his house (we
> live near a university, and a lot of students park on our street.)

> My question: would it be permissible for others to do the same thing,
> if
> they so wish, and is it legal? I looked up parking restrictions on our
> city streets, but could find nothing to address this issue. Also, is it

> legal to park in front of that slope as long as it doesn't obstruct the

> two-car driveway? It is hard to explain the situation, but it is real.
> It would be costly to redo the part that touches the street, but would
> also at the same time be helpful. I do not want to antagonize the
> neighbor who is difficult at best, and do not want to complain to the
> city about something which might be perfectly legal.

> Can someone advise me? Thank you.

> street street street
> ___________ ____________
> ____curb___ __curb______| |

> +1ft. +1ft |
> / |
> / |
> driveway

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Thursday, September 6, 2007

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