Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 18 topics

Saturday, September 8, 2007

25 new messages in 18 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Drive your car to death, save $31,000
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/23a659a15b17cab8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 7 2007 11:56 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

SQ <onestatusquo@yahoo.com> wrote

> Comments?

Thats basically what I do, the last one lasted 30+ years and only
passed its useby date because I was stupid enough to not do anything
about a known leaking windscreen until I got significant floor corrosion that
wasnt economic to repair, or more strictly I couldnt be bothered to do that.

The new one should last for the rest of my life unless some fool wipes it out
on me and the insurance that only costs me $100 will pay for a replacement.

> It seems to me that driving a car to 225,000 miles
> or buying a new one every year are two extremes?

You can get more extreme than that, keep it forever
and replace whatever needs replacing when it fails.

> Maybe there is an optimum mileage/age for upgrade?

Nope, there will always been a tradeoff between the hassle of fixing
what needs fixing and not having anything break and need fixing.

> If you are DIY type, I can see how taking a car
> to 200K miles and beyond is not an issue...

Yeah, I only had a couple of quite minor things to replace apart
from the stuff that wears out like tires, battery, brake pads etc.

> quote
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Drive your car to death, save $31,000

> By keeping your car for 200,000 miles or more, you can save the
> money of buying a new car. Plus: Cars that can outlast all the rest.

> NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- By keeping your car for 15 years, or
> 225,000 miles of driving, you could save nearly $31,000, according to
> Consumer Reports magazine. That's compared to the cost of buying an
> identical model every five years, which is roughly the rate at which
> most car owners trade in their vehicles.

> In its annual national auto survey, the magazine found 6,769 readers
> who had logged more than 200,000 miles on their cars. Their cars
> included a 1990 Lexus LS400 with 332,000 miles and a 1994 Ford
> Ranger pick-up that had gone 488,000 miles.

> Consumer Reports calls the Honda Civic a "Good bet" to make it to 200,000 miles.

> Calculating the costs involved in buying a new Honda Civic EX every
> five years for 15 years - including depreciation, taxes, fees and
> insurance - the magazine estimated it would cost $20,500 more than it
> would have cost to simply maintain one car for the same period.

> http://money.cnn.com/2007/08/30/autos/cr_drive_200k/index.htm?section=money_topstories

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 8 2007 7:46 am
From: Chris Hill

On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 21:31:13 -0700, SQ <onestatusquo@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>Comments?
>It seems to me that driving a car to 225,000 miles or buying a new one
>every
>year are two extremes? Maybe there is an optimum mileage/age for

You never save money by trading payments for repair costs. Even
spending $1200 a year repair costs on a truck is cheaper than paying
$6000 a year in payments or more. Cost isn't a valid reason to trade;
too many breakdowns or parts being unavailable are two good ones.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 8 2007 9:26 am
From: Vic Smith

On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 21:31:13 -0700, SQ <onestatusquo@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>Comments?
>It seems to me that driving a car to 225,000 miles or buying a new one
>every
>year are two extremes? Maybe there is an optimum mileage/age for
>upgrade?
>
>If you are DIY type, I can see how taking a car to 200K miles and
>beyond
>is not an issue...
>
Everybody has their own view on this.
Mine has been to buy GM cars with 2.0, 2.2, 2.8 and 3.1
engines, mostly Chevys. All pushrod.
They are cheap, and I know the weaknesses, which signal themselves,
and are inexpensive to rectify.
You have to know which cars to select, and be willing to do some
repairing for this approach to work. This takes a bit of study, some
mechanical ability, talking with experienced mechanics, etc.
Once you find something that works for you, stick with it.
Otherwise read CR.
$31k is a ridiculous number. Over a 40 year span, that is more than
the sum total I have spent on about 10 cars, including those I bought
for my children.
Frugality with cars is probably the primary reason I found I could
retire at 59. Never cared for them except for transportation, and
never gave a shit about what anybody else thought of my ride.
The kids did, though (-:

--Vic

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 8 2007 9:34 am
From: "Bill"

My car has 125,000 miles on it and my truck has over 500,000 miles on it.

Anytime anything breaks I replace it or have it rebuilt. There is no limit.
Engine, transmission, whatever. I don't care if I spend $10,000, as it is
still less than what a new car/truck costs. But...

The most I have ever spent in one year on one vehicle for repairs is $1,200
and that was for a rebuilt engine. Many years it is $600 per vehicle. Some
years close to nothing.

Whenever something breaks and needs replacement (I try to replace things
before they go out totally if possible), I say to myself "Time to make a car
payment!" Then I think about how many months I have gone without making car
payments and am quite glad I am doing things this way.

The only problem with this is you need to be prepared to have your car break
down on the road (very rare if you keep things in good shape, but does
happen), have cell phone and numbers of towing companies, and be financially
prepared to leave car at nearest repair shop and get rental car.

One time I was in another city and the fuel pump went out. It cost me
$700.00 for this including part replacement at repair shop, towing, and
rental car. Had this happened at home, I could have replaced it myself for
$250.00. But that was all I spent on the car for the year, so still big
savings.

If you *must* have a reliable car, then pay the 2 cents and get a new one.

"SQ" wrote in message
>
> Comments?
> It seems to me that driving a car to 225,000 miles or buying a new one
> every
> year are two extremes? Maybe there is an optimum mileage/age for
> upgrade?
>
> If you are DIY type, I can see how taking a car to 200K miles and
> beyond
> is not an issue...
>
>
> quote
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Drive your car to death, save $31,000
>
> By keeping your car for 200,000 miles or more, you can save the money
> of buying a new car. Plus: Cars that can outlast all the rest.
> August 31 2007: 1:53 PM EDT
>
>
> NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- By keeping your car for 15 years, or
> 225,000 miles of driving, you could save nearly $31,000, according to
> Consumer Reports magazine. That's compared to the cost of buying an
> identical model every five years, which is roughly the rate at which
> most car owners trade in their vehicles.
>
> In its annual national auto survey, the magazine found 6,769 readers
> who had logged more than 200,000 miles on their cars. Their cars
> included a 1990 Lexus LS400 with 332,000 miles and a 1994 Ford Ranger
> pick-up that had gone 488,000 miles.
>
>
> Consumer Reports calls the Honda Civic a "Good bet" to make it to
> 200,000 miles.
>
>
> Calculating the costs involved in buying a new Honda Civic EX every
> five years for 15 years - including depreciation, taxes, fees and
> insurance - the magazine estimated it would cost $20,500 more than it
> would have cost to simply maintain one car for the same period.
>
> http://money.cnn.com/2007/08/30/autos/cr_drive_200k/index.htm?section=money_topstories
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Check it out:hot video,free chat...
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d0d2fbae0e693c73?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 8 2007 2:35 am
From: aksamit2001@gmail.com

Check it out:hot video,free chat...
http://groups.google.com/group/all-great-joy/web/very-good-online-hot-videos-and-hot-stories

==============================================================================
TOPIC: wholesale all laptops http://www.new-nikeshoes.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/594baea030aeb3f1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 8 2007 5:38 am
From: zhushao888@yahoo.com.cn

hi
We wholesale all laptops
Sony VGN-CR13/B 380$
Sony VGN-CR13/L 350$
Sony VGN-CR15/B 320$
Sony VGN-CR13/P 480$
Sony VGN-C21CH 450$
Sony VGN-SZ44CN 580$
Sony VGN-C22CH/W 620$
Sony VGN-N17C 480$
Sony VGN-CR13/W 580$
Sony VGN-FZ15 560$
Apple MacBook 580$
Apple MacBook Pro(MA896CH/A)680$
Apple MacBook Pro(MA896CH/A) 630$
Apple MacBook (MB063CH/A) 580$
Apple MacBook Pro(MA895CH/A) 580$
Apple MacBook(MB062CH/A) 590$
Apple MacBook(MA700CH/A) 580$
Apple MacBook(MA701CH/A) 550$
Apple MacBook Pro MA610CH/A 650$
Apple MacBook Pro (MA611CH/A) 680$
Apple MacBook (MA699CH/A) 580$
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(4).deliver time is in 7 days to get your door
We insist the principia: Prestige first,high-quality,competitive
price,
best services,and timely delivery.
Website: http://www.new-nikeshoes.com

msn: zhushao999@hotmail.com
Hong-da Co., Ltd.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 8 2007 5:40 am
From: zhushao888@yahoo.com.cn

msn: zhushao999@hotmail.com
Hong-da Co., Ltd.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: wholesale all laptops http://www.new-nikeshoes.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f4a6c5d7e701cd1b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 8 2007 5:55 am
From: kyle.reinberg@gmail.com

Can i buy an apple macbook pro 15 inch.

Thanks!!!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Get 1 Million Real Visitors For Free!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a08fa6471a286934?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 8 2007 6:18 am
From: rockie123

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: This guy is a model of Frugal
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a511d022118bb2bf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 8 2007 6:37 am
From: "jchild@runbox.com"

While a bit rough around the edges this guy is as frugal as it gets,
see him at www.leakyboots.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ten Commandments
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8296327af23a490a?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 8 2007 6:41 am
From: 045056@gmail.com

1.Never send money to someone you have never met.
2.Always have a back-up plan
3.Work to eliminate any agency from your communications.
4.Always get the lady's home address and home phone number as early
as possible.
5.Verify the ladies you are writing to are real.
6.Do not fall in love with photos!!
7.Always be yourself. Show the ladies the real you. Be truthful.
Use current photos.
8.Do not rush into this! Take your time and be methodical, not
impulsive, about this

process.
9.Treat international dating the same as dating someone from your
home country. The biggest

difference is the cost (travel, phone. etc). This is an expensive
process. Don't believe

anyone that tells you otherwise.
10.THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A MAIL-ORDER BRIDE! They do not exist.

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: must sale listings new idea to list the quick and short sale and
forclosure prop
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/24295292499d2dbb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 8 2007 7:25 am
From: mo77us

register now for free (30 days)
and list your property on the top of the list
at the brand new MLS competator
http://mustsalelistings.com/index.php

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cheapest phone service?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f1858f5d0fc539ed?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 8 2007 7:31 am
From: ""

>In article <5ne3e3d14tar4phj4ol3g5rjfhp19qu0m2@4ax.com>,
> SuperVHS <NotHere@NotThere.com> wrote:
>
>> My roommate decided he doesn't want to pay for a land phone line to our
>> place (it's fair, he almost always uses a cell) but I need one for the
>> internet.
>> What's the cheapest phone service? Is there anything in the $9-$12 range
>> for reliable bare-bones not-per-hour service?
>> I live in the north texas/DFW area.
>>

SURE !
My dial-up service from QWEST is less than $10 a month.

Unfortunately, after adding various taxes, fees, and charges,
the final bill is more like $25

<rj>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: big loophole in prison sentences "without possibility of parole"
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cef8b58cc904b3b4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 8 2007 7:42 am
From: "Don K"

In Maryland, a monster can earn "diminution credits" and get
transferred to home detention in order to better pursue old
hobbies and pastimes from the comforts of home.

http://mobile.baltimoresun.com/news.jsp?key=157905

A prison sentence "without possibility of parole" means nothing.
Apparently they can make up new rules to get around that at any time.

Keep hoping, Charlie Manson.

Don

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TOPIC: THE INDIVIDUAL KNOWN AS "KANGA" AND "KANGAROOISTAN" IS A CONVICTED
CHILD MOLESTER & REGISTERED SEX OFFENDER
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7c19317c4ecccfd1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 8 2007 7:59 am
From: "COLONEL EDMUND J. BURKE, Special Investigations, Interpol" <1t8x0yk02@
sneakemail.com>

If you know the whereabouts of this dangerous pedophile contact your
local authorities or Colonel Edmund J. Burke, Special Investigations,
Interpol.

HELP GET THIS PIECE OF HUMAN FECES OFF THE STREETS AND AWAY FROM YOUR
CHILDREN!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Heads up: Peanuts in the shell lovers
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c9a854211125bbd6?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 8 2007 8:25 am
From: Vic Smith

On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 21:10:09 -0400, "Don K" <dk@dont_bother_me.com>
wrote:

>"Vic Smith" <thismailautodeleted@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:1ip3e39qqecvgk3f9283ugcgd29eiq40bm@4ax.com...
>> Fisher Super Size, Salted In-shell, Dry Roasted.
>> 5 lb bag for 5 bucks here (Chicago area)
>> These are very good. I quit eating peanuts in the shell because they
>> were all crap - rancid.
>> My wife took a chance and bought these, and the second bag is as good
>> as the first.
>> Maybe the peanut farmers are out of the 5 year old peanuts they've
>> been selling us?
>>
>> --Vic
>
>
>There's nothing in a supermarket that compares to freshly roasted
>nuts from a local nuthouse. They begin to lose flavor after a few days.
>
>I buy 'em in a paper bag while they're still warm.
>
Agreed, bit I don't have that convenience here.
And those are always pretty expensive in my experience.

--Vic

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 8 2007 8:25 am
From: Vic Smith

On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 19:05:21 -0700, Dennis <dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 19:06:57 -0500, Vic Smith
><thismailautodeleted@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>Fisher Super Size, Salted In-shell, Dry Roasted.
>>5 lb bag for 5 bucks here (Chicago area)
>>These are very good. I quit eating peanuts in the shell because they
>>were all crap - rancid.
>>My wife took a chance and bought these, and the second bag is as good
>>as the first.
>>Maybe the peanut farmers are out of the 5 year old peanuts they've
>>been selling us?
>
>I buy 5 lb bags of Hoodys peanuts in the shell at Costco for a similar
>price. One of my favorite snacks while watching TV. Having to pick
>them out of the shell slows down my consumption rate. :-)
>
That does it. I am checking out Costco membership.

--Vic

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 8 2007 8:59 am
From: "Don K"

"Vic Smith" <thismailautodeleted@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:fjf5e3lq3ldjnk205o9s81i1b3791f4jl0@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 21:10:09 -0400, "Don K" <dk@dont_bother_me.com>
> wrote:
>
>>"Vic Smith" <thismailautodeleted@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>news:1ip3e39qqecvgk3f9283ugcgd29eiq40bm@4ax.com...
>>> Fisher Super Size, Salted In-shell, Dry Roasted.
>>> 5 lb bag for 5 bucks here (Chicago area)
>>> These are very good. I quit eating peanuts in the shell because they
>>> were all crap - rancid.
>>> My wife took a chance and bought these, and the second bag is as good
>>> as the first.
>>> Maybe the peanut farmers are out of the 5 year old peanuts they've
>>> been selling us?
>>>
>>> --Vic
>>
>>
>>There's nothing in a supermarket that compares to freshly roasted
>>nuts from a local nuthouse. They begin to lose flavor after a few days.
>>
>>I buy 'em in a paper bag while they're still warm.
>>
> Agreed, bit I don't have that convenience here.
> And those are always pretty expensive in my experience.
>
> --Vic

About $1.70 for a pound bag of peanuts in the shell.
Buying a bag or two once in a while will not break the bank.

Don

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Canned Tuna in Water
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cb6748c3b8405f6f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 8 2007 8:31 am
From: Vic Smith

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 03:49:23 -0000, gheston@hiwaay.net (Gary Heston)
wrote:

>In article <8LadnZCrdbn-Q3zbnZ2dnUVZ_vWtnZ2d@comcast.com>,
>Don K <dk@dont_bother_me.com> wrote:
>

>>I sometimes eat the tuna plain, or more often, will add mayonnaise,
>>celery, onion flakes, cheese, and tomato to make a lumpy tuna sandwich.
>
>I add mayo, sweet pickle relish, olives, and cheese; sometimes a bit of
>spicy mustard, for a quick tuna salad.
>
We usually have it with mayo, celery, sweet relish, and chopped onion.
Out of relish once, we used chopped dill pickle and that worked good
enough to sometimes repeat.
The same tuna mix also goes very well on rotini, for a cold salad
instead of a sandwich.

--Vic

==============================================================================
TOPIC: all the clothes and shoes are in good quality
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e0e5faa397059935?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 8 2007 8:33 am
From: crina588

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I will be looking forward to hearing from your reply

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ebay - buying a politican?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e0b797e682df7d0a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 8 2007 9:57 am
From: "Bill"

>
> Are there any on Ebay?
>

I like that idea!

When a vote is coming up on something, everybody could bid for them to vote
one way or another. Perhaps everybody could "pool" their funds for them to
vote a certain way. I wonder if "We the people" could collectively outbid
some of these large corporations? Maybe get them to spend OUR money here in
the U.S. instead of sending 30 billion dollars to Israel or the 50 billion
we have spent on Egypt since the 70's...

United States Foreign Aid Summary Chart
http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/politics/us-foreign-aid.htm

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Giving OUR money to foreign countries
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/277bc631a23d37c2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 8 2007 10:35 am
From: "Bill"

Need a bridge repaired in your town?

Is your home being repossesed?

Need health care?

Forget about it! Here is where YOUR money is going....

United States Foreign Aid Summary Chart
(The number before the comma is BILLIONS of OUR dollars!)
http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/politics/us-foreign-aid.htm

13 BILLION to Egypt, 30 BILLION to Israel!...
http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2007-07/2007-07-30-voa33.cfm?CFID=186752040&CFTOKEN=84097285

2002 Public Opinion on U.S. Foreign Aid...
http://www.newsbatch.com/ftforeignaidpoll.html

Contact your elected representatives...
http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 8 2007 11:23 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Mindlessly silly, even if there was no foreign aid, those
things you howl about below would still happen.

Bill <bill190nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Need a bridge repaired in your town?
>
> Is your home being repossesed?
>
> Need health care?
>
> Forget about it! Here is where YOUR money is going....
>
> United States Foreign Aid Summary Chart
> (The number before the comma is BILLIONS of OUR dollars!)
> http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/politics/us-foreign-aid.htm
>
> 13 BILLION to Egypt, 30 BILLION to Israel!...
> http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2007-07/2007-07-30-voa33.cfm?CFID=186752040&CFTOKEN=84097285
>
> 2002 Public Opinion on U.S. Foreign Aid...
> http://www.newsbatch.com/ftforeignaidpoll.html
>
> Contact your elected representatives...
> http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal Web Phone
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e645d14f0e5e0aed?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 8 2007 10:59 am
From: Jeff

Now and again I'm away from my computer for a few days. I'd like to be
able to do a little web work sometimes. I'd need a web browser, text
editor and perhaps an FTP client. I'm on AllTel.

Any suggestions?

Jeff

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TOPIC: My swamp cooler / box fan . . . review
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0f6479deacc6ec73?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 8 2007 11:02 am
From: Abby Normal

On Sep 6, 7:50 pm, Abby Normal <a_bee_nor...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Aug 15, 4:51 am, nicksans...@ece.villanova.edu wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Tockk <to...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > >I bought one of these a while ago:
>
> >http://www.electric-fan.com/product/BFC2200.aspx
>
> > >for about 1/3 off, and it's been rainy and humid here in the Dallas area for
> > >the past while. Haven't had the chance to use it until yesterday, when it
> > >was hot and 33% humidity (according to the TV weatherman).
>
> > The ASHRAE 55-2004 comfort standard says that's very hot, with a predicted
> > mean vote of 3.07 on a scale of -3 (very cold) to 0 (perfectly comfortable)
> > to +3 (very hot.)
>
> > T (C) RH% Clo PMV PPD%
>
> > 35 33 .5 3.07171 99.38564
>
> > The standard predicts that 99.38564% of people surveyed would be dissatisfied.
>
> > >I fired it up, and used a thermometer to read the temperature of air going
> > >in vs. air coming out. In my apartment, it read 95 degrees going in to the
> > >fan, and 84 coming out of the fan.
>
> > The web site says it moves 415 cfm, and 1 Btu/h can cool 1 cfm about 1 F
> > and 1000 Btu can evaporate 1 pound of water, so you were cooling the air by
> > about 415(95-84) = 4565 Btu/h with about 4.565 pounds per hour of water.
>
> > With an outdoor vapor pressure Po = 0.33e^(17.863-9621/(460+95)) = 0.559 "Hg
> > (using a Clausius-Clapeyron approximation--ask Caryn), and humidity ratio
> > wo = 0.62198/(29.921/Po-1) = 0.00185 pounds of water per pound of dry air
> > (1 ft^3 of 70 F air weighs 0.075 pounds), 4.565 = 60x415x0.075(wi-wo) makes
> > wi = 0.014295 and Pi = 0.6877 "Hg with a 57.6% RH indoors, which would be
> > a lot more comfy:
>
> > T (C) RH% Clo PMV PPD%
>
> > 28.88889 57.6 .5 .8197596 19.1735
>
> > Only 19.1735% of the people would be dissatisfied.
>
> > If you could evaporate 6 vs 4.565 pounds of water per hour, you could lower
> > the outdoor air temp to 80.5 F with wi = 0.01506 and a 66.3% RH, which would
> > be even more comfy:
>
> > T (C) RH% Clo PMV PPD%
>
> > 26.94445 66.3 .5 6.351899E02 5.083534
>
> > The ASHRAE comfort zone is defined by -0.5 < PMV < 0.5. They also limit
> > the humidity ratio to 0.0120 max, so wi = 0.014295 is outside the zone,
> > even though the calc below suggests it would be close to perfectly
> > comfortable, with 5.083534 Per cent of People Dissatisfied.
> > (You can't please everyone with one condition.)
>
> > >As far as ability to cool a room, well, it's limited.
>
> > You may be cooling more outdoor air than you need.
>
> > >I have two windows seperated by about 6 feet of wall space. I put
> > >the cooler-fan in front of one window, and I have another fan
> > >in the other window that pushes the air to the outside.
>
> > You might enjoy moving the cooler into the room and only running it when
> > the room temp rises to 80.5 F with a thermostat, and only running the fan
> > when the room RH rises to 66.3%, with a humidistat, eg this one:
>
> >http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/itemDetailsRender.shtml?ItemId=1...
>
> > >It holds a few gallons of water, which isn't enough for an 8 hour run.
>
> > If you are only cooling the room and C cfm of outdoor air with P pounds
> > of water per hour, and the room thermal conductance is (say) 50 Btu/h-F,
> > 1000P = (95-80.5)(50+C) and P = 60C0.075(wi-wo) make P = 1.73 lb/h and
> > C = 120 cfm, so the 3.25 gallon reservoir would last 3.25x8.33/1.73 =
> > 15.6 hours.
>
> > 50 CLO =.5'clothing insulation (clo)
> > 60 MET=1.1'metabolic rate (met)
> > 70 WME=0'external work (met)
> > 80 TA=(80.5-32)/1.8'air temp (C)
> > 90 TR=TA'mean radiant temp (C)
> > 100 VEL=.5'air velocity
> > 120 RH=66.3'relative humidity (%)
> > 130 PA=0'water vapor pressure
> > 140 DEF FNPS(T)=EXP(16.6536-4030.183/(TA+235))'sat vapor pressure, kPa
> > 150 IF PA=0 THEN PA=RH*10*FNPS(TA)'water vapor pressure, Pa
> > 160 ICL=.155*CLO'clothing resistance (m^2K/W)
> > 170 M=MET*58.15'metabolic rate (W/m^2)
> > 180 W=WME*58.15'external work in (W/m^2)
> > 190 MW=M-W'internal heat production
> > 200 IF ICL<.078 THEN FCL=1+1.29*ICL ELSE FCL=1.05+.645*ICL'clothing factor
> > 210 HCF=12.1*SQR(VEL)'forced convection conductance
> > 220 TAA=TA+273'air temp (K)
> > 230 TRA=TR+273'mean radiant temp (K)
> > 250 TCLA=TAA+(35.5-TA)/(3.5*(6.45*ICL+.1))'est clothing temp
> > 260 P1=ICL*FCL:P2=P1*3.96:P3=P1*100:P4=P1*TAA'intermediate values
> > 300 P5=308.7-.028*MW+P2*(TRA/100)^4
> > 310 XN=TCLA/100
> > 320 XF=XN
> > 330 N=0'number of iterations
> > 340 EPS=.00015'stop iteration when met
> > 350 XF=(XF+XN)/2'natural convection conductance
> > 360 HCN=2.38*ABS(100*XF-TAA)^.25
> > 370 IF HCF>HCN THEN HC=HCF ELSE HC=HCN
> > 380 XN=(P5+P4*HC-P2*XF^4)/(100+P3*HC)
> > 390 N=N+1
> > 400 IF N>150 GOTO 550
> > 410 IF ABS(XN-XF)>EPS GOTO 350
> > 420 TCL=100*XN-273'clothing surface temp (C)
> > 440 HL1=.00305*(5733-6.99*MW-PA)'heat loss diff through skin
> > 450 IF MW>58.15 THEN HL2=.42*(MW-58.15) ELSE HL2=0'heat loss by sweating
> > 460 HL3=.000017*M*(5867-PA)'latent respiration heat loss
> > 470 HL4=.0014*M*(34-TA)'dry respiration heat loss
> > 480 HL5=3.96*FCL*(XN^4-(TRA/100)^4)'heat loss by radiation
> > 490 HL6=FCL*HC*(TCL-TA)'heat loss by convection
> > 510 TS=.303*EXP(-.036*M)+.028'thermal sensation transfer coefficient
> > 520 PMV=TS*(MW-HL1-HL2-HL3-HL4-HL5-HL6)'predicted mean vote
> > 530 PPD=100-95*EXP(-.03353*PMV^4-.2179*PMV^2)'predicted % dissatisfied
> > 540 GOTO 580
> > 550 PMV=99999!:PPD=100
> > 580 PRINT TA,RH,CLO,PMV,PPD
>
> > T (C) RH% Clo PMV PPD%
>
> > 35 33 .5 3.07171 99.38564
> > 28.88889 57.6 .5 .8197596 19.1735
> > 26.94445 66.3 .5 6.351899E02 5.083534
>
> > Nick
>
> Am I reading you correct that you are finally using outside air?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Nope was the original poster using the outside air. Nick still cannot
grasp the inherent flaw with using evaporative cooling on return air.

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