Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 9 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

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TOPIC: What ever happened to Ebay's unsold item credit?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ccba27ea7be6064d?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 1:45 am
From: clams casino

OhioGuy wrote:

>>I suspect "nothing". Such a rebate certainly never existed within> the
>>time that I've been ebaying (since 1999). Makes no sense, at all.
>>
>>
>
> I was selling things on Yahoo auctions and Ebay from 1995 or 1996.
>Originally, it was completely free on Ebay, then they started charging a
>listing fee. I believe they would refund the fee if the item didn't sell.
>
> This was back when they were under a lot of pressure from Yahoo auctions.
>YA was offering their auctions completely free - no listing fee, no final
>value fees. Ebay couldn't really raise their fees with that kind of
>competition. However, Yahoo made the mistake of starting to charge a 10
>cent listing fee, skipping the 5 cent mark completely, and lots of people
>went back over to Ebay. After that, Yahoo went back to free, but it was too
>late. Then Ebay had the field to itself, pretty much, and the fee hikes
>started.
>
>
>
>
Free auctions are always doomed for failure as their listings tend to
draw mostly scams, garbage and very inexperienced / poor sellers.
Having a minimum listing fee tends to weed out a good portion of the crap.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 2:14 am
From: Anthony Matonak

clams casino wrote:
...
> Free auctions are always doomed for failure as their listings tend to
> draw mostly scams, garbage and very inexperienced / poor sellers.
> Having a minimum listing fee tends to weed out a good portion of the crap.

These days there are more and more things which Ebay will not allow
to be sold. These include guns, souls, virginity and basically anything
illegal. I can see where this provides an opportunity for other auction
sites.

Anthony

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 8:39 am
From: Derald

"OhioGuy" <none@none.net> wrote:

>I was selling things on Yahoo auctions and Ebay from 1995 or 1996
Wow; you must be really old ;-) I guess the answer is, "It went
away". Surely, the business opportunity was too good to pass up. Then,
again, maybe the ebay folks could foresee a free *markeplace* devolving
into Craig's list or, even worse (IMO), freecycle.
I've never minded the fees but, as I say, I've never experienced
ebay without them. At any rate, the essentials of ebay's present-day
listing and relisting charges have been in place for all of the time
that I've been fooling with it.
--
Derald

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TOPIC: Do you like paying for air? (food packages)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/af114586924248d4?hl=en
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== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 3:58 am
From: "OhioGuy"

Sav-A-Lot, and Wal-Mart. You can still select a 1# bag
> of potato chips. Just look for the proper sized bag and buy that

Save-A-Lot is actually the store I was referring to.

Yes, they do have a 16 ounce bag of potato chips, but not the cheap store
brand - only in the much more expensive "Lay's" brand. It almost seems as
though they are going out of their way to drive people over to the more
expensive items.

In fact, while they used to advertise how much saving you could do
shopping there, now it seems like they are carrying brand name items that
cost a lot more.

== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 4:01 am
From: "OhioGuy"

>You're willing to pay twice as much as you used to on a per-unit basis for
>those same chips

But I'm not - I haven't bought any of their potato chips since back when I
noticed the bags dropped from 14 ounces.

== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 4:01 am
From: TwoAllBeefPatties

On Sep 9, 8:36 pm, Anthony Matonak
<anthony...@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote:
> OhioGuy wrote:

".........the answers are usually money or sex......"

Or religion.

== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 4:10 am
From: George

Marsha wrote:
> OhioGuy wrote:
>

>
> You can be sure that anything marked New and Improved will be less of a
> value to the consumer. Bleach is one example that comes to mind. The
> non-splash bottle has about 4-6 oz. less than the regular bleach bottle,
> yet charges the same price. Go figure....
> Marsha/Ohio
>
Then there is the pre-mixed (diluted 50% with water) automotive
anti-freeze that now sells for the same price as the non-diluted version.

== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 5:31 am
From: clams casino

George wrote:

> Marsha wrote:
>
>> OhioGuy wrote:
>>
>
>>
>> You can be sure that anything marked New and Improved will be less of
>> a value to the consumer. Bleach is one example that comes to mind.
>> The non-splash bottle has about 4-6 oz. less than the regular bleach
>> bottle, yet charges the same price. Go figure....
>> Marsha/Ohio
>>
> Then there is the pre-mixed (diluted 50% with water) automotive
> anti-freeze that now sells for the same price as the non-diluted version.

I noticed that this weekend at Walmart for Prestone window wash.

== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 8:39 am
From: Derald

"OhioGuy" <none@none.net> wrote:

>Why do they do this?
Maybe potato subsidies were cut? A potato shortage in some faraway
land? Because doing so made the product, in some way, "better" (just
ask'em)?. Because it's The American Way right before your very eyes?
--
HTH,
Derald

== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 8:38 am
From: Rick

OhioGuy wrote:
>
> Recently, I noticed that a local grocery store started putting more air,
> and less product, in their store brand potato chip bags. 2 months ago, the
> bags had 12 ounces of potato chips - now they have 8. A couple of years
> ago, they had 14 ounces. I remember that about 6 or 7 years ago, it was a
> full 16 ounces - a pound.
>
> Now they are putting half the product in the bags, but they have left the
> price the same - a dollar. I would much rather that they leave the size of
> the product the same, and I find it insulting that they make the bags look
> the same size, and they are the same price, but you only get half what you
> did a few years ago.
>
> The same has happened to a lesser extent with several other items - graham
> crackers, for instance. The boxes used to have a full pound. Now it is 14
> ounces, and there is empty space in the box.
>
> Why do they do this? It infuriates me, and makes me feel like my
> intelligence is being insulted.

Why? They just likes to screw with your head...

This happens all the time. You get less for more $$$ as any given
company tries to increase profits. We do live in a capitalist society.
The back inside page of Consumer Reports dedicates an entire section of
"Selling It" to examples of the worst food product packaging devoted to
convincing you that there is more in the package than you think. The
examples are funny - yet pathetic - at the same time.

Just one more reason why you have to be a very savvy shopper and really
look at what you are buying.

Rick

== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 8:45 am
From: Rick

George wrote:
>
> Marsha wrote:
> > OhioGuy wrote:
> >
>
> >
> > You can be sure that anything marked New and Improved will be less of a
> > value to the consumer. Bleach is one example that comes to mind. The
> > non-splash bottle has about 4-6 oz. less than the regular bleach bottle,
> > yet charges the same price. Go figure....
> > Marsha/Ohio
> >
> Then there is the pre-mixed (diluted 50% with water) automotive
> anti-freeze that now sells for the same price as the non-diluted version.

From the same "How Dumb Do You Think a Consumer Really Is?" marketing
department: My favorite is "lite" juices that are just regular juices
mixed with added water. Profound revelation: If you want a "lite" juice,
do it yourself.

But these juices are still on the store shelves so I guess P. T. Barnum
is still right...

Rick

== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 9:03 am
From: clams casino

Rick wrote:

> My favorite is "lite" juices that are just regular juices
>mixed with added water. Profound revelation: If you want a "lite" juice,
>do it yourself.
>
>
>

Of course, they simply stole that directly from the beer companies.

== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 9:24 am
From: "Bill"

Placing less food in a package and making it look like you are getting a lot
is quite an art...

With chips, it is desirable that they have bends and ripples. This is so
they will stack in the package with more air between each chip.

With frozen foods, they use a big retectangular box, then place an oval
container inside this, then this container has several individual
compartments with the sides of each compartment sloping in. Then they only
fill each compartment enough to cover the bottom. The amount of food in one
of these boxes can be measured in tablespoons! (Although looking at it from
the top down, it looks like a "plate full".)

With dry foods in a box, they can make the pieces odd shaped and crinkled so
they don't lay flat against each other - adding more air.

Or adding "crisped (puffed) rice" to chocolate bars, you get a lot of air.

With paper products like paper towels or toilet paper, they can add little
indentations or dimples on the surface of the paper so it does not roll as
tightly - has more air and less paper in the roll, but roll looks just as
big around.

Then they can inject air into bars of soap. (I buy the heaviest bar - lasts
longer.)

With cheap stereo systems, it will be a big box with lots of air inside. Or
a big speaker cabinet, yet small speakers. (I buy by what it sounds like,
not what it looks like.)

"OhioGuy" wrote in message
> Recently, I noticed that a local grocery store started putting more air,
> and less product, in their store brand potato chip bags. 2 months ago,
> the bags had 12 ounces of potato chips - now they have 8. A couple of
> years ago, they had 14 ounces. I remember that about 6 or 7 years ago, it
> was a full 16 ounces - a pound.
>
> Now they are putting half the product in the bags, but they have left the
> price the same - a dollar. I would much rather that they leave the size
> of the product the same, and I find it insulting that they make the bags
> look the same size, and they are the same price, but you only get half
> what you did a few years ago.
>
> The same has happened to a lesser extent with several other items -
> graham crackers, for instance. The boxes used to have a full pound. Now
> it is 14 ounces, and there is empty space in the box.
>
> Why do they do this? It infuriates me, and makes me feel like my
> intelligence is being insulted.
>

== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 9:25 am
From: Anthony Matonak

OhioGuy wrote:
...
> In fact, while they used to advertise how much saving you could do
> shopping there, now it seems like they are carrying brand name items that
> cost a lot more.

There is more profit in high priced items. Lots of stores simply
don't carry cheap stuff. It's not worth it to them.

Anthony

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TOPIC: Drive your car to death, save $31,000
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/23a659a15b17cab8?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 3:58 am
From: SQ

On Sep 9, 7:29 pm, George <geo...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> Plus obviously the time to do this. If you depend on the car you can't
> take two days off from work to repair something yourself and if you do
> any traveling what do you do when something fails two hundred miles from
> home.-

Well, you can if you have a backup vehicle. But then that's twice
the maintainance, insurance, etc.

With old beaters, you should have two of them, when one is down,
drive the other and vice-versa. There is no way I could have done
all the DIY work if I had just one vehicle.

As I said, I had several either old or high mileage cars and it was
a constant exercise in auto repair skills. There was always something
broken down and needing wrenching. Some projects I just couldn't
figure out, like electrical issues with an airbag.

But it might be wiser to get a newer normal vehicle with lower miles
and
a lower chance of breaking down and having an unplanned downtime.
Then plan the repairs, i.e. start changing the timing belt on Friday
night so it's ready by Saturday (hopefully). And in general, fix
things
before they break and leave you stranded. I am beginning to wonder if
I should replace things like the starter and battery and more
preemptively before they go bad on me and leave me stranded so I have
to
have it towed to a shop for $399 special.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 6:53 am
From: "bungalow_steve@yahoo.com"

On Sep 9, 4:38 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> SQ <onestatus...@yahoo.com> wrote
>
> > IMO and my experience, making a vehicle last for decades takes either
> > a very large bank account or an outstanding shade tree mechanic skill set.
>
> You need to choose the cars you buy more carefully.
>
> My last one lasted 30+ years with only a couple of very minor
> maintenance costs, one for the alternator regulator and the
> other for a fuel hose. Total cost of less than $100.
>

Something doesn't sound right, how many miles a year do you put on the
car? No front end work in 30 years? No belts? No coolant/oil/brake
fluid changes/refills/top offs? No plugs? No rotors? No muffllers? No
shocks? I know guys who lease cars who don't do anything (and I mean
anything) for 3 years but not 30 years.

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TOPIC: Tomato paste
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/bf6768d86eb5418f?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 5:34 am
From: val189

On Sep 9, 8:37 pm, Al Bundy

> The 6oz. cans of paste are 33¢ at ALDIs and Sav-A-Lot. Still, $2/# is
> much cheaper. That's a lot of work to part out a gallon of tomato
> paste and spend the cost and space of freezing it.

What Al said!!
Plus, you can scoop out the tablespoon or two of paste from the 6 oz.
can and freeze the rest (formed into a little log) on a sheet of
plastic wrap, then slice off whatever you need next time.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 8:30 am
From: watcher@moog.netaxs.com

In article <1189374855.943770.265440@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>, jes wrote:
> It was recommended to add a couple of tablespoons of tomato paste to
> homemade soup. The cooked tomatoes bring a lot to the party. The
> little 4 oz cans are nearly $1.00 each.
>
> So at Costco I got a gallon for $2.00. Then I put a piece of plastic
> wrap on a cookie sheet, and scooped out dollops of the paste -- about
> hamburger size patties. And froze.
>
> One frozen they were peeled off. I put them in a plastic bags, but
> kept them separated just to make sure none of them stuck. Then stored
> in the freezer.
>
> I had to keep repeating the batches, but it's very convenient and
> cheap!
>
> Joan
>

That's a mighty lot of tomato paste. Possibly a lifetime supply :-) Might
have been simpler to look for the stuff in a reclosable tube. From what I've
heard, the tube keeps the paste usable for quite a while and you don't have to
spend all the effort dolloping it out, freezing it, and making space for it in
the freezer. Too late for that now, but may be of interest in your next
lifetime :-)

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 9:20 am
From: et472@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Michael Black)

(watcher@moog.netaxs.com) writes:
> In article <1189374855.943770.265440@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>, jes wrote:
>> It was recommended to add a couple of tablespoons of tomato paste to
>> homemade soup. The cooked tomatoes bring a lot to the party. The
>> little 4 oz cans are nearly $1.00 each.
>>
>> So at Costco I got a gallon for $2.00. Then I put a piece of plastic
>> wrap on a cookie sheet, and scooped out dollops of the paste -- about
>> hamburger size patties. And froze.
>>
>> One frozen they were peeled off. I put them in a plastic bags, but
>> kept them separated just to make sure none of them stuck. Then stored
>> in the freezer.
>>
>> I had to keep repeating the batches, but it's very convenient and
>> cheap!
>>
>> Joan
>>
>
> That's a mighty lot of tomato paste. Possibly a lifetime supply :-) Might
> have been simpler to look for the stuff in a reclosable tube. From what I've
> heard, the tube keeps the paste usable for quite a while and you don't have to
> spend all the effort dolloping it out, freezing it, and making space for it in
> the freezer. Too late for that now, but may be of interest in your next
> lifetime :-)
>
I don't know. I suspect it's more useful than some things.

Just last week, I saw a discount box at one local grocery store (I'd never
seen them do that before) and there were about three large cans of jalapeno
peppers. I'm not sure what size it was, but it would have been bulk size
if it was olives or even tomato sauce. Had an original price of $15.

I have no idea how they ended up with that size a can, but it's no wonder
they were trying to clear it out. That would be a lifetime of jalapeno
peppers.

Michael

==============================================================================
TOPIC: When news media whine about 'labor shortages' it simply means employers
don't want to pay existing workers as much
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c75d3f8f8d3003a2?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 6:11 am
From: ppnerkDELETETHIS@yahoo.com (Phred)

In article <5kitbsF3paolU1@mid.individual.net>, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>Phred <ppnerkDELETETHIS@yahoo.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> John A. Weeks III <john@johnweeks.com> wrote
>
>>>> Or even better, given that over 60% of office space is vacant in downtown
>>>> St. Paul, why not move some of your operations to the twin cities.
>
>>> Because these are usually operations that cant move.
>
>>>> You can get cheap class A and class B office space, workers
>>>> standing in line waiting for jobs, and the government will toss in
>>>> incentives in both cash and tax avoidance to help you move.
>
>>> Useless if you're a mining operation that needs apes to drive haulpaks etc.
>
>> They say you get monkeys if you pay peanuts. As these guys are
>> earning >$80,000 p.a. I guess that's why you get those big apes. ;-)
>
>True. In spades with those proof of Darwin's theory, footballers.

Interesting you should point that out. There's a pic in the back page
bottom LH corner of today's edition of the tabloid from the tourist
ghetto of Cairns [_The Cairns Post_ 10 Sep 2007, p.72] that would
convince even the most skeptical of man's close relationship with the
great apes. And the guy's only a *coach* of an AFL team! Quite
possibly his players *are* apes. ;-)

>> Incidentally, mate of mine was looking for a carpenter recently for a
>> job in PNG. No one around here was interested unless it was at least
>> $10,000/month cash in hand after tax. As he said, that was a bit
>> rich; they were hoping to get one for about $8,000/month after tax. :)
>> [For the record: at the present time AUD10,000 is about USD8,300.]
>
>And then there's getting them to work in Iraq.

Yeah. At least in PNG it's only a short hop for retreat. (Actually,
parts of the place probably aren't too bad. I know a couple of
blokes who've spent fairly long stints in mines in the highlands
for example [one's still there]. Just keep out of Moresby!)

Cheers, Phred.

--
ppnerkDELETE@THISyahoo.com.INVALID

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TOPIC: MAKE MONEY QUICK! NO SCAM! $$$$$$
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5d2ff5f56f4dab02?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 7:49 am
From: MinMN59

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm 19 and I make more money than my parents and so can you"

Turn $6.00 into $60,000...read this to find out how!!!

READING THIS COULD CHANGE YOUR LIFE!

I found this on a bulletin board like this one and decided to try it.

A little while back, I was browsing through a newsgroups, just like
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could make thousands of
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address stated in the article.

You then place your own name and address in the bottom of the list at
#6, and post the article in at least 200 newsgroups. (There are
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#1)S.R. Johnson : 3285 Lewis Ave. : Signal Hill, CA 90807

#2)B. Hooper : 3 Warringah Gve. : Petrie, QLD, Australia 4502

#3)Matthew Speight : 6 Charnwood Ave. : Belfast : N. Ireland : BT15
5DH

#4)Robert Johnston : 21 Dunard Road. : Glasgow : Scotland : G73 3BY

#5)J. Gaudet: 26 Magnus Avenue: Somerville MA: 02143

#6)John R. Dillard: 1230 Queen Avenue North: Minneapolis Mn: 55411

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---DIRECTIONS ----- FOR HOW TO POST TO NEWSGROUPS------------
Step 1)
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Use Netscape or Internet explorer and try searching for various
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newsgroup!

**REMEMBER, THE MORE NEWSGROUPS YOU POST IN, THE MORE MONEY YOU WILL
MAKE!! BUT YOU HAVE TO POST A MINIMUM
OF 200**

That's it! You will begin receiving money from around the world within
days! You may eventually want to rent a P.O.Box due to the large
amount of mail you will
receive. If you wish to stay anonymous, you can invent a name to use,
as long as the postman will deliver it.

**JUST MAKE SURE ALL THE ADDRESSES ARE CORRECT.**

Now the WHY part:
Out of 200 postings, say I receive only 5 replies (a very low
example). So then I made $5.00 with my name at #6 on the letter.

Now, each of the 5 persons who just sent me $1.00 make the MINIMUM 200
postings, each with my name at #5 and only 5 persons respond to each
of the
original 5, that is another $25.00 for me, now those 25 each make 200
MINIMUM posts with my name at #4 and only 5 replies each, I will bring
in an additional
$125.00!

Now, those 125 persons turn around and post the MINIMUM 200 with my
name at #3 and only receive 5 replies each, I will make an additional
$626.00!

OK, now here is the fun part, each of those 625 persons post a MINIMUM
200 letters with my name at #2 and they each only receive 5 replies,
that just made me
$3,125.00!!!

Those 3,125 persons will all deliver this message to 200 newsgroups
with my name at #1 and if still ONLY 5 persons per 200 newsgroups
react I will receive
$15,625,00!

With an original investment of only $6.00! AMAZING! When your name is
no longer on the list, you just take the latest posting in the
newsgroups, and send out
another $6.00 to names on the list, putting your name at number 6
again. And start posting again.

The thing to remember is: do you realize that thousands of people all
over the world are joining the internet and reading these articles
everyday?, JUST LIKE YOU
are now!!

So, can you afford $6.00 and see if it really works?? I think so...

People have said, "what if the plan is played out and no one sends you
the money? So what! What are the chances of that happening when there
are tons of new
honest users and new honest people who are joining the internet and
newsgroups everyday and are willing to give it a try?

Estimates are at 20,000 to 50,000 new users, every day, with thousands
of those joining the actual internet.

Remember, play FAIRLY and HONESTLY and this will really work.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Suing a Dentist
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ef6126f6980eacfc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 8:10 am
From: "Don"

"soretooth"> wrote
> I do know that it will wind up costing him alot more than it cost me.

And THAT'S all that really matters, right?
Welome to the litigious society.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Saturn (car) problems
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c2af5318e6470d68?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 9:02 am
From: "misterfact@yahoo.com"

--- "rec.autos.makers.saturn group" <noreply@googlegroups.com> wrote:

>
> rec.autos.makers.saturn
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.saturn?hl=en
>
> rec.autos.makers.saturn@googlegroups.com
>
> Today's topics:
>
> * Wheel Bearing Questions... - 1 messages, 1 author
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.saturn/browse_thread/thread/2f23449925b73010?hl=en
> * Steering wheel shaking during braking - 1
> messages, 1 author
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.saturn/browse_thread/thread/70bd7beea7456707?hl=en
> * SC2 97 Wont start! - 1 messages, 1 author
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.saturn/browse_thread/thread/91776e8446c07987?hl=en
> * Stereo System of the Vue 1.0 - 1 messages, 1
> author
>
> >
>
>>news:1185502228.289567.148310@l70g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > >> > So I figure I have a bad wheel bearing;
> unfortunately I can't figure
> > >> > exactly what I'm going to have to do to fix
> it. The manual I have
> > >> > pretty much says don't mess with it and take
> the steering knuckle/hub
> > >> > assembly into a shop and have the bearing
> pressed. I called the
> > >> > nearby dealer and he said to just order the
> hub assembly and to put
> > >> > that on instead of pressing the bearing.
> Call the auto parts store
> > >> > for the hub assembly, and apparently you have
> to press the bearing
> > >> > that comes with the new hub assembly. What
> is the advantage of
> > >> > purchasing a new hub assembly as opposed to
> just the bearing? Is this
> > >> > really that hard that I should take it into a
> shop? I mean I know I
> > >> > need a press, and yes, I have access to one.
> what about an
> > >> > alignment? Why would I need one of those? I
> mean I guess I
> > >> > understand why, but If I'm not cranking on
> the tie rod or anything is
> > >> > it really going to throw it off that much?
> So many questions; and so
> > >> > little time before this thing decides its
> going to completely go
> > >> > out...thanks!!
> >
> > >> Yeah, just take the knuckle to Saturn. take
> your car back to Saturn for
> > >> alignment. I had it all done for <$200
> including parts and what
> > >> not...There
> > >> was a good guide on the Saturn site. I can dig
> it up if you'd like?- Hide
> > >> quoted text -
> >
> > >> - Show quoted text -
> >
> > > Thanks for all your help and willingness to do
> so...
> >
> > > A friend and I fixed the thing; quite a job.
> He's a mechanic, and had
> > > never seen a bearing like that.
> >
> > > I can go into detail if you'd like...it took a
> lot longer than we both
> > > expected.
> >
> > > To answer another question: How did I come to
> the conclusion it was a
> > > wheel bearing? Well, it was making a thumping
> noise for quite some
> > > time, around a year or so. Of course it got
> progressively worse, and
> > > I began to have premonissions that at some
> point, probably around 3
> > > am, my tire would fall off and I would go
> crashing into the woods and
> > > become a missing person.
> >
> > > It was classic wheel bearing symptoms, a
> thump-thump-thump type of
> > > noise, which earlier in it's time would only do
> it if the weight would
> > > shift onto the tire around a corner, or not do
> it if it would shift
> > > onto the other wheel. And apparently I was the
> only one to see this
> > > as odd, as a number of local shops that I took
> it to said it was fine,
> > > even after I explained what it was doing.
> Probably wanted nothing to
> > > do with changing that bearing. I know the guy
> who helped me said he'd
> > > never do another one.
> >
> > A year? Jesus. I can feel a slight misbalance in
> my tires and I usually
> > freak out. I can also feel when my tires are low
> as to how they sound...
> >
> > I'm a freak for sure :)- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> well, I noticed it, but what can you do? Fix it I
> suppose, but i
> guess that is how cars go...turn up the radio, and
> the problem
> momentarily disappears.
>
>
>
> >
> > > "Oppie" <bop...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> >
> >news:46ae2a9b$0$16498$88260bb3@news.teranews.com...
> >
> > >> "HyperCube33 (Life2Death)"
> <hypercube[11x3]@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > >>news:yarqi.19$U_5.2@newsfe05.lga...
> > >>> Well, I did a ton of reading. And I'm certain
> its the rotors...Also they
> > >>> mention that you should adjust them so the
> pads hit the rotors right
> > >>> (??) not sure how to do this and what
> equipment I'd need. I'm curious if
> > >>> I could toss them on and have Midas bleed and
> adjust them before I brake
> > >>> the pads in too much? I also need them to weld
> on a joint in my exhaust
> > >>> so perhaps that'll work. Hmm. Something about
> "runout?"
> >
> > >>> Perhaps my dad will let me bleed the brakes in
> the garage, we'll see.
> > >>> Haven't talked to him yet. Though after
> conquering the hub bearing on my
>
=== message truncated ===

--- "rec.autos.makers.saturn group" <noreply@googlegroups.com> wrote:

>
>>
> * LW300 Cranks but won't start - 1 messages, 1
> author
>
> "Oppie" <boppie@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:xxLpi.722$zJ4.539@trndny03...
> > And true to form, on the way home last night, the
> car died again - this
> > time while driving it. Let it sit for about 15
> minutes with the hood open
> > and tried to start it every few minutes. After
> about 15 minutes, it
> > started and I let it idle. After about 4 minutes,
> it shut off again as
> > smartly as if the key was turned off. No stutter
> or anything. I think it's
> > the crank angle sensor still. Go ahead and try to
> convince the boneheads
> > of that though. Of note was that there was no oil
> leak anywhere but the
> > crank sensor was rather oily on its case. When
> cranking (while engine
> > would not catch) no smell of gas in the tailpipe.
> Fuel pressure OK.
> >
> > Eventually the engine did start again and I drove
> it directly to Saturn
> > before they closed the gates. Left it off
> overnight and will see what
> > happens now. I think that I will rent a car for
> the wedding this weekend.
> > I no longer have sufficient faith that the car
> will be fixed properly
> > again.
> >
>
> I had a similar problem with my 2001 LW300 (114000
> miles) and it turned out
> to be the crankshaft position sensor. The car would
> die. Sometimes itt
> would start after 10-15 mins. Sometimes it would
> not restart. The sensor
> was replaced ($611) by the dealer in March and I
> have had no problems since
> then.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==============================================================================
>.saturn?hl=en
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> rec.autos.makers.saturn-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>
> >
> ==============================================================================
> Google Groups: http://groups.google.com?hl=en
>
--- "rec.autos.makers.saturn group" <noreply@googlegroups.com> wrote:

>
> rec.autos.makers.saturn
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.saturn?hl=en
>
> rec.autos.makers.saturn@googlegroups.com
>
> Today's topics:
>
> * How To Change Brake Light? - 1 messages, 1 author
>
> http://> > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.saturn/browse_thread/thread/342243f6e6ef5951?hl=en
> * Wheel Bearing Questions... - 1 messages, 1 author
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.saturn/browse_thread/thread/2f23449925b73010?hl=en
> * What Does Error Code OPCODE: M3505 Mean? - 1
> messages, 1 author
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.saturn/browse_thread/thread/ad88741dd83ef743?hl=en
> * Alloys and bad roads dont mix - 1 messages, 1
> author
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.saturn/browse_thread/thread/a84c17efc8bdcd8d?hl=en
> * Head gasket on a Saturn (Opel) 54 degree v6? - 1
> messages, 1 author
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.saturn/browse_thread/thread/5f37d935170db470?hl=en
>
> ==============================================================================
> TOPIC: How To Change Brake Light?
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.saturn/browse_thread/thread/4d55b8cda7258395?hl=en
>
--- "rec.autos.makers.saturn group" <noreply@googlegroups.com> wrote:

>
> rec.autos.makers.saturn
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.saturn?hl=en
>
> rec.autos.makers.saturn@googlegroups.com
>
> Today's topics:
>
> * SC2 97 Wont start! - 2 messages, 2 authors
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.saturn/browse_thread/thread/91776e8446c07987?hl=en
> * Stereo System of the Vue 1.0 - 1 messages, 1
> author
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.saturn/browse_thread/thread/398b61e700bedf65?hl=en
>
> ==============================================================================
> TOPIC: SC2 97 Wont start!
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.saturn/browse_thread/thread/91776e8446c07987?hl=en
> ==============================================================================
>
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Probe of seminar for seniors finds fraud
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1911571cce48de05?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 10 2007 9:23 am
From: Too_Many_Tools

Probe of seminar for seniors finds fraud By MARCY GORDON, AP Business
Writer
Mon Sep 10, 5:53 AM ET

An investigation by federal and state regulators of "free lunch"
investment seminars aimed at seniors has found high-pressure sales
pitches masquerading as educational sessions, pervasive misleading
claims for unsuitable financial products, and even fraud.

Much of the blame goes to investment firms for failing to properly
supervise their employees who put on the seminars for seniors,
according to the report of the investigation being made public Monday.
By law, the sales pitches made at the seminars and the materials
provided to participants must be approved by a brokerage or investment
firm's supervisors.

The examination by the Securities and Exchange Commission, state
regulators and the securities industry's self-policing organization,
the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority, covered seven states that
have large numbers of retirees: Alabama, Arizona, California, Florida,
North Carolina, South Carolina and Texas.

The investigation, which ran from April 2006 to June 2007, focused on
110 investment firms and branch offices that sponsor sales seminars
for seniors with free meals.

SEC Chairman Christopher Cox called the investigation's findings "a
wake-up call for securities regulators, the financial-services
industry and, especially, older investors."

"The SEC and our fellow regulators intend to put a stop to this," Cox
said in a statement. "We will step in whenever false claims are being
made. We will sanction crooks who try to feast on the life savings of
older investors."

Among the findings:

_The popular "free lunch" or dinner seminars, often held at upscale
hotels, restaurants and golf courses, are advertised as educational
sessions or workshops at which no products will be sold. They are
actually sales presentations, pushing those attending to open new
accounts and make investments on the spot or in follow-up meetings
with the salespeople.

_Nearly 60 percent of the 110 investment firms and branch offices
examined showed evidence of weak supervision of the employees running
the seminars, including failure to review the seminar materials.

_Exaggerated or misleading claims - like "Immediately add $100,000 to
your net worth" - showed up in about half of the 110 inspections
performed by the regulators.

_Recommendations for unsuitable investments were found in 23 percent
of them.

_Thirteen percent showed apparent instances of fraud, such as
liquidating accounts without a customer's knowledge or consent, or
selling bogus investments.

The "free lunch" seminars are one of several areas being examined by
regulators and lawmakers involving practices that can drain older
Americans' retirement savings. People 60 and older make up 15 percent
of the country's population but account for an estimated 30 percent of
fraud victims. With baby boomers swelling the ranks of retirees,
regulators expect an increase in financial scams targeting them.

In the past two years, the SEC has brought more than 40 enforcement
cases involving alleged fraud against seniors, many in coordination
with state authorities. In addition, FINRA, known until recently as
the National Association of Securities Dealers, has filed cases
against a number of brokerage firms and individual employees.

FINRA also has been conducting inspection "sweeps" in several other
areas affecting seniors: pitches for people to retire early and cash
out their 401(k) accounts under an IRS rule; sales of collateralized
mortgage obligations, complex and potentially risky investments tied
to mortgage securities; so-called senior financial investment
specialists, a designation said to be devoid of real value; and life
settlements, in which the holder of a life insurance policy sells it
to a third party for more than its cash surrender value but less than
the net death benefit.

FINRA is taking "a multifaceted approach to a problem that can have
absolutely devastating consequences for a large proportion of our
population," the organization's chairman and chief executive, Mary
Schapiro, said in an interview.

Joseph Borg, president of the North American Securities Administrators
Association, said the investigation of seminars for seniors proved the
proverbial point: "There's no such thing as a free lunch."

"Seniors seeking investor education and advice at a seminar should not
be subject to misrepresentations, high-pressure sales tactics and
outright fraud," Borg said.

The SEC is holding a "seniors summit" Monday on investment fraud and
abusive sales practices with FINRA; the North American Securities
Administrators Association, which represents state securities
regulators; and AARP, the advocacy group for seniors.

___

On the Net:

Securities and Exchange Commission: http://www.sec.gov

Financial Industry Regulatory Authority: http://www.finra.org

North American Securities Administrators Association: http://www.nasaa.org

AARP information on investment scams: http://www.aarp.org/money/wise_consumer/investment_fraud

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Frugal Living

Blog Archive

Monday, September 10, 2007

25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

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