Frugal Living: 15 new messages in 11 topics

Monday, October 1, 2007

15 new messages in 11 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

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TOPIC: What (rodent?) did this???
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6860ccc82111612e?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 30 2007 6:27 pm
From: "Bear"

Mice. They'll eat anything. They are all coming inside about now. If you go
with bait traps, keep them out of the reach of pets and kids.

> Hello,
>
> Recently I found something odd had happened to
> the anttraps in my finished basement. The traps
> were under the hot water radiator pipes.
>
>
> You can see some pictures I took here:
>
> http://www.geocities.com/condor_222/anttrap/
>
> http://www.geocities.com/condor_222/anttrap/dsc_2289.jpg
> http://www.geocities.com/condor_222/anttrap/dsc_2290.jpg
> http://www.geocities.com/condor_222/anttrap/dsc_2291.jpg
> http://www.geocities.com/condor_222/anttrap/dsc_2292.jpg
> - as I found them
>
>
> http://www.geocities.com/condor_222/anttrap/dsc_2293.jpg
> http://www.geocities.com/condor_222/anttrap/dsc_2294.jpg
> - One corner was chewed out on each of the traps
>
>
> http://www.geocities.com/condor_222/anttrap/dsc_2296.jpg
> - there were lots of pieces of plastic remaining.
> - note the size and round shape.
>
>
> I thought this was really odd. What would be going for
> an ant trap? What would chew out the corners, and leave
> pieces the shape of crescent moons? A snake?
>
>
> Any ideas??
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Gone to the Dogs
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6032107109473599?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 30 2007 6:28 pm
From: Dennis

On 30 Sep 2007 17:27:50 GMT, et472@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Michael Black)
wrote:

>But that doesn't address the problem. A healthy group always
>has newcomers coming in, their involvement refreshes the group,
>adding new viewpoints and challenging the oldtimers in their
>thoughts. The more cluttered a newsgroup, the less likely
>a newcomer will come in. And of course, all the junk sets
>the standard, "well he posted about his business, so I was
>quite certain it was allowed".

Fortunately we have you here to tirelessly set everyone straight on
what is and is not appropriate to post.

Dennis (evil)
--
"There is a fine line between participation and mockery" - Wally

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 30 2007 7:33 pm
From: et472@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Michael Black)

Dennis (dgw80@hotmail.com) writes:
> On 30 Sep 2007 17:27:50 GMT, et472@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Michael Black)
> wrote:
>
>>But that doesn't address the problem. A healthy group always
>>has newcomers coming in, their involvement refreshes the group,
>>adding new viewpoints and challenging the oldtimers in their
>>thoughts. The more cluttered a newsgroup, the less likely
>>a newcomer will come in. And of course, all the junk sets
>>the standard, "well he posted about his business, so I was
>>quite certain it was allowed".
>
> Fortunately we have you here to tirelessly set everyone straight on
> what is and is not appropriate to post.
>
So I shouldn't fight it, I should leave?

Where's the frugal discussion here?

"Where's a cheap ISP?" is hardly a frugal issue. It's a consumer
issue, and there's a newsgroup for that.

Real discussion of frugality is either gone, or barely here.

Frugality is more than getting things cheap. And as far as I'm concerned
it's far deeper than "should I buy a or b". The people who come
here to ask about where to get things cheap will likely never be
frugal, because they don't get it. If they need someone to lead
them to the best buy, then someone else can lead them to some completely
non-frugal thing. ANd they certainly will keep asking, like the
resident troll and that Vijay guy, because they think it stops
at "getting a good deal".

Being frugal is not about consuming, which all those posts basically
make it seem like.

It's about making decisions, like the woman who was frugal in her
life so she could go off and speed skate. It's about big decisions
like how do we live our lives and what's important to us, and it's about
small barely noticeable decisions like how we buy toothpaste. But
the process is far more important than handing someone an answer.

The people who come with their really large salaries and wonder
how they are in debt, they suffer because they don't have a frugal
mentality. But often it's clear that they "don't want to fuss
with all those decisions", so all the bad choices add up. ANd
they can't make the leap to being frugal because the focus is
on buying no name mustard instead of name brand mustard, when
the real process should be explained without any specific items.

"How do I bake bread?" is not a frugal issue. There are newsgroups
that cover the topic. I read them, and sometimes even post. Frugality
is about making the leap to doing things yourself, and making an
informed decision over whether there is value in doing a given thing
rather than spending money.

I read newsgroups for the topic they are supposed to be about. If
I want to discuss some other topic I go elsewhere. If I wanted a club,
I'd join one. If I wanted to hang out with people, I might as well
stay in the local newsgroup where it might even lead to hanging out
with real people.

But a newsgroup loses when it morphs into something else, and the people
who were there because of the topic of the newsgroup leave, because
then they aren't around when people ask questions that they can reply
to.

The people who post the most don't even notice, because they are really
quite happy with the state of the newsgroup. They don't care, because
the topic of the newsgroup is pretty irrelevant to them.

There is very little here. Take off your rose-colored glasses, and
even if you take out the "freebies" and the spam, you'll discover
that really very little addresses frugality. It's about buying cheap.

Micahel

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 30 2007 7:56 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On 1 Oct 2007 02:33:57 GMT, et472@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Michael Black)
wrote:

>Where's the frugal discussion here?
>
>"Where's a cheap ISP?" is hardly a frugal issue. It's a consumer
>issue, and there's a newsgroup for that.
>
>Real discussion of frugality is either gone, or barely here.
>
>Frugality is more than getting things cheap. And as far as I'm concerned
>it's far deeper than "should I buy a or b". The people who come
>here to ask about where to get things cheap will likely never be
>frugal, because they don't get it.

OFPS. now we have spammers and whingers about the regulars who are
unfrugal in their rhetoric.

There outta be a newgroup for people like that, so they don't waste
bandwidth in other newsgroups.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Basic Bare Bones ISP ??
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/60e9d2967289daf6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 30 2007 12:16 pm
From: Todd Allcock

At 30 Sep 2007 05:26:20 -0700 <RJ> wrote:

> Check out LOCALNET if you can.
> They're pretty much everywhaer.
> Great service, newsgroups, $9.95/mo, no ads,
> and $99 ( I think ) if you pay by the year.

Don't forget freedialup.org if you live in New England. It doesn't
get much better than free!

"I don't need my cell phone to play video games or take pictures
or double as a Walkie-Talkie; I just need it to work. Thanks for
all the bells and whistles, but I could communicate better with
ACTUAL bells and whistles." -Bill Maher 9/25/2003

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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4e331d2740e5080d?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 30 2007 6:53 pm
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Home safe odors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1b82176d55c73873?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 30 2007 7:06 pm
From: Dennis

On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 15:45:52 -0400, Marsha <mas@xeb.net> wrote:

>Don K wrote:
>
>> "Marsha" <mas@xeb.net> wrote in message news:fdorrk$jv2$2@news.datemas.de...
>>
>>>The contents of my small home safe feel slightly damp and they smell odd. Does anyone
>>>have any suggestions on solving this problem?
>>
>>
>> Get a dehumidifier.
>>
>> Don
>>
>
>I don't think it would fit inside the safe ;-)

There are active dehumidifiers that are made to work inside safes.
Goldenrod is one brand. It is essentially a very low wattage radiant
electric heater. I have one and it seems to work, but my safe is in a
dry (but unheated) spot to start with.

Dennis (evil)
--
I'm a hands-on, footloose, knee-jerk head case. -George Carlin

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 30 2007 8:11 pm
From:

In article <fdorrk$jv2$2@news.datemas.de>, mas@xeb.net says...
> The contents of my small home safe feel slightly damp
> and they smell odd. Does anyone have any suggestions
> on solving this problem?

"Crystals" type cat litter is silica gel, the same stuff sold in
overpriced little packets for drying things. Buy a 4lb jar of it, pour
it into a dry cloth bag (or a clean pillowcase) and put it in the safe.

Bake it in the oven overnight to dry it out occasionally.

--
josh@phred.org is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/>
Braze your own bicycle frames. See
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/build/build.html>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Disney Mobile calls it Quits
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/db605ad0907838b0?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 30 2007 7:35 pm
From: Todd Allcock

At 30 Sep 2007 09:10:25 -0700 SMS wrote:

> Vonage provided a valuable service with its saturation advertising.
> It made users aware of VOIP, and the ways it can be used.

I agree with the first statement, but not the second. Vonage ads did
put VoIP in the pblic eye, but they're relatively restrictive with
use of the service that people DON'T get a feel for what they can do
with VoIP- you had to pay extra for using softphones, couldn't
register more than one ATA, etc. Compare that to more typical SIP
provider that lets me use an ATA at home, while simultaneously using
my PPC as a "cordless VoIP" phone and also having my laptop USB
handset plugged in.

> People that travel a lot like these services since they can use
> VOIP to have a "local" phone number when traveling, and use the
> hotel's free wireless for calls.

But not (easily) with Vonage. The Vonage box has to plug into a
physical router or DSL/cable modem (not WiFi) and AFAIK, the only
softphone is a physical USB key registered to your service.

> However the problem was that a) Vonage was too expensive

Hardly- with taxes and fees, my local landline service is around
$35/month- so even without the unlimited LD it's save me some money.

> b) it had little appeal outside the market for people that used
> it as a traveling number type of service.

Again, I disagree- your cellphone easily provdes a "local number when
travelig" and doesn't require lugging around VoIP ATAs or firing up a
laptop.

The attraction of VoIP is cheap landline replacement.

> Few people would ever spend anywhere close to $25/month on long
> distance.

True, but that same $25 includes your local service as well. Again,
using my example, I'd be nearly $10 ahead with Vonage forgetting LD
(which I typically use my Cellphne for.)

> That's 1000 minutes on OneSuite, 1250 minutes on TalkLoop. And
> of course most people have unlimited off-peak long distance on
> their cell phone plans.

True.
The "problem" with VoIP is that while it's cheaper than a landline,
it's not as reliable, as high quality, or as easy to use. Most
homeowners wouldn't know how to properly wire an ATA into their house
wiring for seamless "plug a phone into any existing jack and get the
VoIP line" service, many broadband connections occasionally need a
modem or router reboot- it's all a little too "techie" compared to
traditional POTS service. Plus, given the number of us using DSL,
which generally "includes" a POTS line for only a few bucks more, any
VIP savings are marginalized.

Personally I find VoIP useful as a second line, or for international
travel, but I dobn't consider myself typical in that respect. The
people I know using Vonage are simply trying to save a few bucks
compared to the local telco service.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 30 2007 11:35 pm
From: ultimauw@hotmail.com

On Sep 30, 9:10 am, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> > In article <Xns99B98C079B5F3noonehome...@208.49.80.253>,
> > Larry <no...@home.com> wrote:
>
> >> Of much greater interest from the webpage is the one on Vonage's demise:
> >>http://www.thestreet.com/s/vonages-vanishing-
> >> act/newsanalysis/techtelecom/10381531.html?
>
> >> They're TOAST! My condolences to Vonage users stuck with useless equipment
> >> once the company goes dark.
>
> > Bah. Us Sunrocket customers are old hat at that. It's yesterday's news.
>
> Vonage provided a valuable service with its saturation advertising. It
> made users aware of VOIP, and the ways it can be used. People that
> travel a lot like these services since they can use VOIP to have a
> "local" phone number when traveling, and use the hotel's free wireless
> for calls.
>
> However the problem was that a) Vonage was too expensive, and b) it had
> little appeal outside the market for people that used it as a traveling
> number type of service. Few people would ever spend anywhere close to
> $25/month on long distance. That's 1000 minutes on OneSuite, 1250
> minutes on TalkLoop. And of course most people have unlimited off-peak
> long distance on their cell phone plans.

I think Cell Phones are starting to kill off the land lines en masse.
Just 10 years ago, it was *rare* to see anybody except business folks
with cell phones, now there are so ubiquitous that even pre-teens
usualy have one. The only appeal of services like Vonage is the price,
but since now cell phones are so common and cheap. land lines
including VoIP looks like yesterdays technology headed to the heap of
history. (On that note, it's getting hard to find a pay phone period,.
let alone a *working* one these days, and I live in Los Angeles!).

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Debt Consolidation and Debt Settlement
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a5bcbce637c378c9?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 30 2007 8:26 pm
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: FIND LEGAL HELP, FREE ....
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b40df4b6f458cdba?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 30 2007 9:38 pm
From: annis

FIND LEGAL HELP, FREE ....

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Did fluorescent bulbs save you money?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8aa0ba4f7349251c?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 29 2007 7:48 am
From: Jeff

Michael Black wrote:
> James (j0069bond@hotmail.com) writes:
>
>>My father used to turn off unnecessary lights. After converting to
>>fluorescent bulbs he didn't turn off lights, had some on all night,
>>and even left a few on 24/7. Now fluorescent bulbs might only take a
>>quarter of the energy but he certainly had the lights on more than 4
>>times as long.
>>
>
> You're comparing apples and oranges.
>
> Just because he leaves them on all the time doesn't mean everyone does.

Many might.

I leave a few on almost all the time. I leave a 6W light on in the
bathroom for example. Not a lot of power but after a month it's over 4
kWhr. Now if it was incandescent I would have turned that off, at least
part of the reason being that incandescent lights don't last anywhere
near as long. Those fluorescents just keep going and going and you don't
have to worry about not having a working light when you need it
(although many have significant warm up times).

Now, the bathroom isn't the only place I keep a light on. And I
suspect many others do the same.

So leaving that light on may cost me 35 cents (per month) rather than
a buck and change. Of course higher wattage CFs will cost much more. I
just did a tour and found three lights on (~26W) and they had probably
been on quite a while. I did turn two off and I have been more conscious
of turning off lights when I leave.

So, you have a few questions to answer.

What does conservation mean to you? If it's larger than saving a few
bucks out of a much larger electric bill then it's worthwhile to treat
those lights similar to incandescents.

Are you (or Dad) leaving whole rooms well lit rather than just enough
light to pass through? That could be costing the better part of $10/room
per month.

I'd say most Americans don't know where their power is being used.
Many are still stuck on consumption anyways...

Jeff

>
>
> Michael
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hypo-allergenic liquid laundry detergent
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e3d2a8c9a679f091?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 30 2007 11:50 pm
From: "aesthete8@hotmail.com"

Any favorite?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Tips for frugal living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e6973a7e08978588?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 30 2007 11:57 pm
From: "aesthete8@hotmail.com"

http://finance.yahoo.com/expert/article/generationdebt/46569

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Frugal Living

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Monday, October 1, 2007

15 new messages in 11 topics - digest

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