Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 12 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

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TOPIC: Catalog Items at Cost and Below
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/03d6c4dd4e26740d?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 18 2007 12:00 am
From: "Gary C."

www.BlueBroom.com is a web site that sells gifts at incredibly low
prices. Mostly catalog items. If you can't find a great deal here
then you....

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 18 2007 1:18 am
From: "Gary C."

www.BlueBroom.com is a web site that sells gifts at incredibly low
prices. Mostly catalog items. If you can't find a great deal here
then you....

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TOPIC: programmable remote (timer/ channel) dishtv?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/fa8cb89409e506cc?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 18 2007 12:05 am
From: patrick

Hello; For the std receivers (receiver/timer #311/322) that don't have
the timer/program function capability, does anyone know of a ir
universal remote that would allow the programming of the remote to
turn the receiver on and to a particular channel at a particular time?
I'm trying to keep the cost of the dish tv down such that I don't have
to cough up the bucks for the dvr ( I have a vcr that works just fine)
and the subscription fee (6 dollars/monthly) for the dvr as well.
Thanks Pat

==============================================================================
TOPIC: free search engine?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/db0014d235679823?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 18 2007 12:21 am
From: "pepita@prodigy.net"

On Oct 17, 5:49 pm, "J. Davidson" <fredjacquel...@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
> Are there any search engines which are free anymore?
> Jackie

Google and Yahoo are free. Ask.com is free, etc. etc. etc. Which
ones AREN'T free?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: (WWW.CNCIRCLE.COM)cheape wholesale unreleased nike sneakers,hoodies,
custom timberland
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/81ae707141962ff8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 18 2007 12:52 am
From: kook

Welcome to visit (www.cncircle.com)
We have many kinds of brand sports shoes and Clothes in our stock--
such as nike max nike shox,jordan
1-22series ,adidas,puma,timberland,gucci, prada,Bape,ari force one
shoes and D&G Lacoste polo shirts;Bape 10deep lrg Hoodies;NBA/NFL/
Jersey;Evisu / Red monkey/BAPE/Antik jeans and LV,Chanel,gucci,fendi
Handbags;Sunglasses(gucci chanel lv) ;watches(omega rolex) NOKIA n95
n90 n92 n93 Apple Mobile Phonesetc.for more detail information.please
kindly visit our website:
(www.cncircle.com) all the shoes is packed with original box,
and the tags and style code number is 100% correct;all the items
listed in our website we have got them in stocks,small mini order and
even drop ship is available here .All the products is in good quality
with low price!!!
Deliver safety !Fast deliver!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lowest Mortgage Rates
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/fb0be6be1ecb2fca?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 18 2007 1:14 am
From: Jodie

I can shop your loan through over 200 different lenders to find the
lowest rate, and can generally get a preliminary approval within 48
hours. Check out my website at www.jodiesgreatlenders.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Life Insurance - Guide
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b7835a8d43e9eecf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 18 2007 1:43 am
From: InsurInfo

We are living in a hefty world of pain. Who knows what will happen to
us
next?. Imagine, What will happento our family after we pass out? In
this
case Shouldn't we be more careful. It's better to take a life
insurance.
For that point, you need to know more on life insurance. I have a
website
that talks about Life Insurance and has great tips and a guild to
Guide
you to a better Life Insurance Policy. I suggest that everybody checks
it
out.

http://www.theinsurancezone.net

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bush To Let Illegal Aliens Get $40 Digital TV Coupons
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f941e4a655a77d3f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 18 2007 2:01 am
From: "Rick"

"SFTV_troy" <SFTV_troy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1192620445.157699.242340@t8g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>
> Rod Speed wrote:
>> SFTV_troy <SFTV_troy@yahoo.com> wrote
>> > Rod Speed wrote
>> >> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>
>> >>> Does it or does it not convince some that they prefer
>> >>> to stay in Mexico rather than enter this country illegally?
>>
>> >> Nope, wont make any difference to that, essentially because
>> >> working conditions in mexico are so much worse than in the
>> >> US even if jobs are made available for them in mexico.
>>
>> > Why is it necessary for them to enter illegally?
>>
>> Because they wont be allowed in using the legal route.
>
>
> Too bad. That's no excuse to break the law & enter illegally. *I'd*
> like to be to drive 120 miles an hour on I-80 (cross-country where
> it's empty), but I can't because we have laws. If I can't break the
> laws, why should "they" be allowed to break the law? If they're
> caught, send them back home, and hand them a Visa application so they
> can enter legally.
>
>
>> > This is what my Chinese friend did. This is what my Japanese friend
>> > did.
>>
>> And vastly more got told that they dont qualify.
>
>
> FALSE. They're both living in suburban D.C. They are U.S. citizens
> now, because that's what happens when you follow the laws, rather than
> act like a criminal and try to enter illegally.
>
>
> As for the vouchers:
>
> (1) It's only $40.
>
> (2) It would be too expensive to try to block illegals from getting
> coupons. The amount of manpower required to verify, "Is Greg a
> citizen or an illegal?" would be WAY more expensive than the amount of
> money lost. You'd probably spend 1 million just to save $500,000,
> which makes no sense. Like Benjamin Franklin said, "Penny wise and
> dollar foolish."
>
> (3) I'd rather crackdown on the illegal in more-expensive areas, like
> excluding them from SS, Medicare, Medicaid. And also blocking them
> from acquiring a job (and arresting those with fake IDs).

I wonder if they really are going to go digital ? How many times have they
pushed back the date So far?

== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 18 2007 2:14 am
From: "Rick"

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5nnpenFj8jupU1@mid.individual.net...
> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
>>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But any market reform in Mexico would be better than what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they have now.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wouldnt fix the problem. NAFTA had no effect on the number of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> illegals.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> First of all the comment was "any market reform in
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mexico...", it did not even mention NAFTA.
>
>>>>>>>>>>> Its a similar economic change.
>
>>>>>>>>>> Why is it "similar"?
>
>>>>>>>>> Because its another way of getting economic change.
>
>>>>>>>> Ageed
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Second, while it is true that NAFTA will not fix the problem
>>>>>>>>>>>> (it is not intended to fix the problem), are you going to
>>>>>>>>>>>> argue that it won't "help"?
>
>>>>>>>>>>> Nope, that while it may well help the economic situation in
>>>>>>>>>>> Mexico, that wont have any effect on the number that still
>>>>>>>>>>> decide that their prospects are much better in the US than
>>>>>>>>>>> back in Mexico.
>
>>>>>>>> Agreed again, but it helps....
>
>>>>>>> Not with what is being discussed, the number of illegals from
>>>>>>> Mexico.
>
>>>>>>>>>> Huh? Does it provide jobs for some in Mexico that they would
>>>>>>>>>> not otherwise have,
>
>>>>>>>>> Thats arguable given that china manages fine without that.
>
>>>>>>>> huh?
>
>>>>>>> China doesnt have anything like NAFTA with the US and
>>>>>>> has plenty of jobs in areas that export to the US anyway.
>
>>>>>>>>>> and doesn't that provide them with the incentive not to enter
>>>>>>>>>> this country illegally?
>
>>>>>>>>> Nope, because work in those operations that do benefit from
>>>>>>>>> NAFTA still provides them with much worse living standards
>>>>>>>>> than moving to the US does.
>
>>>>>>>> so?
>
>>>>>>> So your line about improving the economic situation in Mexico
>>>>>>> wont actually have any effect on the number of illegals choosing
>>>>>>> to move to the US, essentially because whatever is done in
>>>>>>> Mexico will STILL see them with much worse living standards in
>>>>>>> mexico than in the US.
>
>>>>>>>> Does it or does it not convince some that they prefer to stay in
>>>>>>>> Mexico rather than enter this country illegally?
>
>>>>>>> Nope, wont make any difference to that, essentially because
>>>>>>> working conditions in mexico are so much worse than in the
>>>>>>> US even if jobs are made available for them in mexico.
>
>>>>>> then why aren't more of them here?
>
>>>>> Because the US makes it hard for mexicans to just move to the US.
>
>>>> that sure has worked hasn't it?
>
>>> Have you the remotest concept of how many there would have been if any
>>> south american that wanted to move to the US was free to do so ?
>
>>> In spades with the rest of the world.
>
>> Well yes. But my argument is they would not want to come here in
>> droves, if they could make a decent living in the country of their birth.
>
> Pity that no one has managed to work out how to produce the same
> living standards in those countrys as there are in the US to stop hordes
> deciding that their economic situation would be much better in the US.
>
>> And as long as they cannot, they will come.
>
> And since no one has managed to work out how to produce the same
> living standards in those countrys as there are in the US to stop hordes
> deciding that their economic situation would be much better in the US,
> the US will continue to see heaps choose to move to the US illegally.
Semi dictators and their cronies in Mexico will never give up their power
unless our government puts pressure on them. But with conservative
politicians getting campaign money from the corporations who hire illegal's
and Liberals getting votes from illegal's getting amnesty in the past and
they hope in the future no wonder nothing gets done in congress. Even when
you have 70% of Americans wanting to see action done on the issue.

Where's the fence?

== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 18 2007 2:18 am
From: "Rick"

"Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
news:4716a67f$0$32483$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
> "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:47166dc6$0$11608$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_birth_rate
>>
>> Completely useless on that living standards question.
>>
>> Not one of those with a birth rate that mexico has
>> has anything like the living standards that the US has.
>>
>> It isnt possible for any govt to produce the living standards
>> that the US has when they have a birth rate that Mexico has.
>>
> Did you really bother to look at the list?

At 20 births per 1000 doesn't sound so high.

== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 18 2007 2:22 am
From: "Rick"

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5ncme0Fhls8jU1@mid.individual.net...
> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:
>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:470bd495$0$11082$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>> This is getting to be silly. There are some, what, 40 million of
>>> them in this country as we speak. What percentage of them are
>>> picking crops? Why complain about a problem, if you have no
>>> solution to the problem? What is your solution to the problem? I
>>> am willing to bet whatever "solution" you propose, I can poke holes
>>> into your "solution" of why it won't work. "RuleOfLaw"
>>> <miltonez@aol.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1191906246.966265.44310@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On Oct 4, 6:06 am, cloud dreamer <Global_Warm...@is.real> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Funny how guys like Bill will whine over illegal immigrants but is
>>>>> happy to buy cheap strawberries made possible only by their
>>>>> labour. I doubt he'd be willing to bend over and pick in the hot
>>>>> sun for their wages.
>>>>
>>>> Enonomists have thoroughly exploded the myth of "cheap
>>>> strawberries" (or is "cheap lettuce" more your hollow cliche of
>>>> choice?)
>>>>
>>>> First of all, the use of illegal alien laborAT MOST reduces produce
>>>> prices a few cents per pound.
>>>>
>>>> Secondly, the citizen taxpayers pay ENORMOUS amounts of money (and
>>>> sometimes with their very lives) to harbor this "cheap" illegal
>>>> alien labor. Right nos MY local hospital is CLOSING due to illegal
>>>> aliens bankrupting it!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>>
>>>> Thirdly, it's been convincingly argued that the presence of illegal
>>>> aliens actually HINDERS growers' introduction of what would be
>>>> LABOR- SAVING automation which would TRULY LOWER prices. With so
>>>> many illegals around growers have little reason to further automate.
>>>>
>> Well for one none of them have a legal Social Security Card. You want
>> a job get a legal SSC. If you don't no employment from any business
>> in the United States and no Welfare either with out a SSC.

You can always have the SS administration check them out first to see if
theirs are legitimate. Which I always thought they did I mean what do they
do in washington all day.
>
> They'd just get a SSC, just like they get fake passports.
>

== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 18 2007 2:23 am
From: "Rick"

"Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
news:atropos-F584E8.19073513102007@news.giganews.com...
> In article <5ncme0Fhls8jU1@mid.individual.net>,
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:
>> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
>> > news:470bd495$0$11082$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> >> This is getting to be silly. There are some, what, 40 million of
>> >> them in this country as we speak. What percentage of them are
>> >> picking crops? Why complain about a problem, if you have no
>> >> solution to the problem? What is your solution to the problem? I
>> >> am willing to bet whatever "solution" you propose, I can poke holes
>> >> into your "solution" of why it won't work. "RuleOfLaw"
>> >> <miltonez@aol.com>
>> >> wrote in message
>> >> news:1191906246.966265.44310@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>> >>> On Oct 4, 6:06 am, cloud dreamer <Global_Warm...@is.real> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Funny how guys like Bill will whine over illegal immigrants but is
>> >>>> happy to buy cheap strawberries made possible only by their
>> >>>> labour. I doubt he'd be willing to bend over and pick in the hot
>> >>>> sun for their wages.
>> >>>
>> >>> Enonomists have thoroughly exploded the myth of "cheap
>> >>> strawberries" (or is "cheap lettuce" more your hollow cliche of
>> >>> choice?)
>> >>>
>> >>> First of all, the use of illegal alien laborAT MOST reduces produce
>> >>> prices a few cents per pound.
>> >>>
>> >>> Secondly, the citizen taxpayers pay ENORMOUS amounts of money (and
>> >>> sometimes with their very lives) to harbor this "cheap" illegal
>> >>> alien labor. Right nos MY local hospital is CLOSING due to illegal
>> >>> aliens bankrupting it!!!!!!!!!!!
>> >>>
>> >>> Thirdly, it's been convincingly argued that the presence of illegal
>> >>> aliens actually HINDERS growers' introduction of what would be
>> >>> LABOR- SAVING automation which would TRULY LOWER prices. With so
>> >>> many illegals around growers have little reason to further automate.
>> >>>
>> > Well for one none of them have a legal Social Security Card. You want
>> > a job get a legal SSC. If you don't no employment from any business
>> > in the United States and no Welfare either with out a SSC.
>>
>> They'd just get a SSC, just like they get fake passports.
>
> And the penalty for possession of fake federal documents should be a
> felony.

That would be unfair I mean their poor English skills should be a red flag
when handing over their fake ssc.

== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 18 2007 2:25 am
From: "Rick"

"David Johnston" <david@block.net> wrote in message
news:nb73h31feqqigm5b0ueqtsuoq9d75sce2i@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 22:27:27 -0400, Thanatos <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>
>>> > And the penalty for possession of fake federal documents
>>> > should be a felony.
>>
>>> Wont stop them.
>>
>>Name me one criminal law that has ever actually stopped people from
>>committing the act that's criminalized. Yet no one sane is suggesting we
>>scrap the entire penal code just because it doesn't induce 100%
>>compliance.
>
> You already have a fairly gigantic prison population. How easily will
> your prison system deal with being multiplied four times or more?

Have them build more prisons that's what government is for last time I
checked.

== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 18 2007 2:26 am
From: "Rick"

"Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
news:471157b7$0$32526$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:5ncme0Fhls8jU1@mid.individual.net...
>> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:
>>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
>>> news:470bd495$0$11082$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>> This is getting to be silly. There are some, what, 40 million of
>>>> them in this country as we speak. What percentage of them are
>>>> picking crops? Why complain about a problem, if you have no
>>>> solution to the problem? What is your solution to the problem? I
>>>> am willing to bet whatever "solution" you propose, I can poke holes
>>>> into your "solution" of why it won't work. "RuleOfLaw"
>>>> <miltonez@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:1191906246.966265.44310@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> On Oct 4, 6:06 am, cloud dreamer <Global_Warm...@is.real> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Funny how guys like Bill will whine over illegal immigrants but is
>>>>>> happy to buy cheap strawberries made possible only by their
>>>>>> labour. I doubt he'd be willing to bend over and pick in the hot
>>>>>> sun for their wages.
>>>>>
>>>>> Enonomists have thoroughly exploded the myth of "cheap
>>>>> strawberries" (or is "cheap lettuce" more your hollow cliche of
>>>>> choice?)
>>>>>
>>>>> First of all, the use of illegal alien laborAT MOST reduces produce
>>>>> prices a few cents per pound.
>>>>>
>>>>> Secondly, the citizen taxpayers pay ENORMOUS amounts of money (and
>>>>> sometimes with their very lives) to harbor this "cheap" illegal
>>>>> alien labor. Right nos MY local hospital is CLOSING due to illegal
>>>>> aliens bankrupting it!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Thirdly, it's been convincingly argued that the presence of illegal
>>>>> aliens actually HINDERS growers' introduction of what would be
>>>>> LABOR- SAVING automation which would TRULY LOWER prices. With so
>>>>> many illegals around growers have little reason to further automate.
>>>>>
>>> Well for one none of them have a legal Social Security Card. You want
>>> a job get a legal SSC. If you don't no employment from any business
>>> in the United States and no Welfare either with out a SSC.
>>
>> They'd just get a SSC, just like they get fake passports.
>>
>
> I did not think of that. Get a fake passport and present that as proof of
> citizenship. I wonder if that would work?

All depends on how big the bribe is. How much does a corrupt official cost
now adays.

== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 18 2007 2:28 am
From: "Rick"

"Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
news:4711576a$0$25686$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
> "Rick" <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote in message
> news:F82dnVJdVPWTgYzanZ2dnUVZ_tWtnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:470bd495$0$11082$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>> This is getting to be silly. There are some, what, 40 million of them
>>> in this country as we speak. What percentage of them are picking crops?
>>> Why complain about a problem, if you have no solution to the problem?
>>> What is your solution to the problem? I am willing to bet whatever
>>> "solution" you propose, I can poke holes into your "solution" of why it
>>> won't work.
>>>
>>>
>>> "RuleOfLaw" <miltonez@aol.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1191906246.966265.44310@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On Oct 4, 6:06 am, cloud dreamer <Global_Warm...@is.real> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Funny how guys like Bill will whine over illegal immigrants but is
>>>>> happy
>>>>> to buy cheap strawberries made possible only by their labour. I doubt
>>>>> he'd be willing to bend over and pick in the hot sun for their wages.
>>>>
>>>> Enonomists have thoroughly exploded the myth of "cheap
>>>> strawberries" (or is "cheap lettuce" more your hollow cliche of
>>>> choice?)
>>>>
>>>> First of all, the use of illegal alien laborAT MOST reduces produce
>>>> prices a few cents per pound.
>>>>
>>>> Secondly, the citizen taxpayers pay ENORMOUS amounts of money (and
>>>> sometimes with their very lives) to harbor this "cheap" illegal alien
>>>> labor. Right nos MY local hospital is CLOSING due to illegal aliens
>>>> bankrupting it!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>>
>>>> Thirdly, it's been convincingly argued that the presence of illegal
>>>> aliens actually HINDERS growers' introduction of what would be LABOR-
>>>> SAVING automation which would TRULY LOWER prices. With so many
>>>> illegals around growers have little reason to further automate.
>>>>
>> Well for one none of them have a legal Social Security Card. You want a
>> job get a legal SSC. If you don't no employment from any business in the
>> United States and no Welfare either with out a SSC.
>>
>
> Did you read about what is actually happening. We now require employers
> to give the Social Security Administration the social security number of
> ANY new employee. If the Social Security Administration find no match,
> they advise the employer. But they have no authority to do anything "if"
> the employer does nothing about the notification. When there is a no
> match, the Social Securitu Administration sends that information to the
> Homeland Security people, who have no law enforcement ability. So, what
> good does the whole thing do?

You just have to vote the right people into office that's all.
And 9 times out of 10 you usually have to vote the RIGHT person in.

== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 18 2007 2:37 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:
> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:4716a67f$0$32483$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>
>> "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:47166dc6$0$11608$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_birth_rate
>>>
>>> Completely useless on that living standards question.
>>>
>>> Not one of those with a birth rate that mexico has
>>> has anything like the living standards that the US has.
>>>
>>> It isnt possible for any govt to produce the living standards
>>> that the US has when they have a birth rate that Mexico has.
>>>
>> Did you really bother to look at the list?
>
> At 20 births per 1000 doesn't sound so high.

Then you need to get your ears tested.

== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 18 2007 2:37 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
>>>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But any market reform in Mexico would be better than what they have now.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wouldnt fix the problem. NAFTA had no effect on the number of illegals.

>>>>>>>>>>>>> First of all the comment was "any market reform in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mexico...", it did not even mention NAFTA.

>>>>>>>>>>>> Its a similar economic change.

>>>>>>>>>>> Why is it "similar"?

>>>>>>>>>> Because its another way of getting economic change.

>>>>>>>>> Ageed

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Second, while it is true that NAFTA will not fix the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem (it is not intended to fix the problem), are you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> going to argue that it won't "help"?

>>>>>>>>>>>> Nope, that while it may well help the economic situation in
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mexico, that wont have any effect on the number that still
>>>>>>>>>>>> decide that their prospects are much better in the US than
>>>>>>>>>>>> back in Mexico.

>>>>>>>>> Agreed again, but it helps....

>>>>>>>> Not with what is being discussed, the number of illegals from Mexico.

>>>>>>>>>>> Huh? Does it provide jobs for some in Mexico that they
>>>>>>>>>>> would not otherwise have,

>>>>>>>>>> Thats arguable given that china manages fine without that.

>>>>>>>>> huh?

>>>>>>>> China doesnt have anything like NAFTA with the US and
>>>>>>>> has plenty of jobs in areas that export to the US anyway.

>>>>>>>>>>> and doesn't that provide them with the incentive not to
>>>>>>>>>>> enter this country illegally?

>>>>>>>>>> Nope, because work in those operations that do benefit from
>>>>>>>>>> NAFTA still provides them with much worse living standards
>>>>>>>>>> than moving to the US does.

>>>>>>>>> so?

>>>>>>>> So your line about improving the economic situation in Mexico
>>>>>>>> wont actually have any effect on the number of illegals
>>>>>>>> choosing to move to the US, essentially because whatever is
>>>>>>>> done in Mexico will STILL see them with much worse living
>>>>>>>> standards in mexico than in the US.

>>>>>>>>> Does it or does it not convince some that they prefer to stay
>>>>>>>>> in Mexico rather than enter this country illegally?

>>>>>>>> Nope, wont make any difference to that, essentially because
>>>>>>>> working conditions in mexico are so much worse than in the
>>>>>>>> US even if jobs are made available for them in mexico.

>>>>>>> then why aren't more of them here?

>>>>>> Because the US makes it hard for mexicans to just move to the US.

>>>>> that sure has worked hasn't it?

>>>> Have you the remotest concept of how many there would have been if
>>>> any south american that wanted to move to the US was free to do so ?

>>>> In spades with the rest of the world.

>>> Well yes. But my argument is they would not want to come here in
>>> droves, if they could make a decent living in the country of their birth.

>> Pity that no one has managed to work out how to produce the same
>> living standards in those countrys as there are in the US to stop
>> hordes deciding that their economic situation would be much better
>> in the US.

>>> And as long as they cannot, they will come.

>> And since no one has managed to work out how to produce the same
>> living standards in those countrys as there are in the US to stop
>> hordes deciding that their economic situation would be much better
>> in the US, the US will continue to see heaps choose to move to the
>> US illegally.

> Semi dictators

You wouldnt know what a dictator was if one bit you on your lard arse, child.

> and their cronies in Mexico

You wouldnt know what a crony was if one bit you on your lard arse, child.

> will never give up their power unless our government puts pressure on them.

The US govt is completely irrelevant on that. Have a look at Burma some time.

And china in spades.

> But with conservative politicians getting campaign money from the corporations who hire illegal's and Liberals getting
> votes from illegal's getting amnesty in the past and they hope in the future no wonder nothing gets done in congress.
> Even when you have 70% of Americans wanting to see action done on the issue.

Do the decent thing and set fire to yourself in 'protest' or sumfin.

> Where's the fence?

Record's stuck.

== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 18 2007 2:40 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:5ncme0Fhls8jU1@mid.individual.net...
>> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:
>>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
>>> news:470bd495$0$11082$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>> This is getting to be silly. There are some, what, 40 million of
>>>> them in this country as we speak. What percentage of them are
>>>> picking crops? Why complain about a problem, if you have no
>>>> solution to the problem? What is your solution to the problem? I
>>>> am willing to bet whatever "solution" you propose, I can poke holes
>>>> into your "solution" of why it won't work. "RuleOfLaw"
>>>> <miltonez@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:1191906246.966265.44310@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> On Oct 4, 6:06 am, cloud dreamer <Global_Warm...@is.real> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Funny how guys like Bill will whine over illegal immigrants but
>>>>>> is happy to buy cheap strawberries made possible only by their
>>>>>> labour. I doubt he'd be willing to bend over and pick in the hot
>>>>>> sun for their wages.
>>>>>
>>>>> Enonomists have thoroughly exploded the myth of "cheap
>>>>> strawberries" (or is "cheap lettuce" more your hollow cliche of
>>>>> choice?)
>>>>>
>>>>> First of all, the use of illegal alien laborAT MOST reduces
>>>>> produce prices a few cents per pound.
>>>>>
>>>>> Secondly, the citizen taxpayers pay ENORMOUS amounts of money (and
>>>>> sometimes with their very lives) to harbor this "cheap" illegal
>>>>> alien labor. Right nos MY local hospital is CLOSING due to illegal
>>>>> aliens bankrupting it!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Thirdly, it's been convincingly argued that the presence of
>>>>> illegal aliens actually HINDERS growers' introduction of what
>>>>> would be LABOR- SAVING automation which would TRULY LOWER prices.
>>>>> With so many illegals around growers have little reason to
>>>>> further automate.
>>> Well for one none of them have a legal Social Security Card. You
>>> want a job get a legal SSC. If you don't no employment from any
>>> business in the United States and no Welfare either with out a SSC.

> You can always have the SS administration check them out first to see if theirs are legitimate.

Easy enough to fool them.

> Which I always thought they did I mean what do they do in washington all day.

Pay out to those who have paid in over their working life.

>> They'd just get a SSC, just like they get fake passports.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cheap Abba Cigarettes
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7bcfdefd2affef32?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 18 2007 2:02 am
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TOPIC: Cheap Business Club Cigarettes
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b3843e694546c14d?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 18 2007 2:38 am
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TOPIC: Restaurant coupon issue - how SHOULD I have reacted?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a4082e25278c7472?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 18 2007 2:53 am
From: "OhioGuy"

As a followup, I used another one of the printable online "Entertainment
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and broasted chicken, with sides, and instead of paying $18, we got them for
$9 total.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What are you planning for Sweetest Day this Saturday?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/045f914110927a39?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 18 2007 3:03 am
From: "OhioGuy"

>You may very well be right about Texas being in the top 10, but I suspect
>that that's like saying that >Louisiana is one of the top five states in
>the country for >"Talk Like A Pirate Day" -- it just doesn't mean very
> >much.

Well, it means that the holiday is spreading, and that's good enough for
me. I'm glad to know that something I'm used to here in Ohio will be quite
common across the entire country by the time my kids are adults. I really
don't think that many people take holidays like "talk like a pirate day"
very seriously, nor do they celebrate it. However, people DO celebrate
Sweetest Day. Millions of them do, including me.

>It's really a shame that what may have started out as a >day for doing
>something nice for the less fortunate has >been turned into another excuse
>for crass >commercialism.

It's only "crass commercialism" if you're the head of a company selling
candy, or if you're a cynic. If you're a romantic, you like buying your
wife's favorite candy for her, and you like writing poems for her, then it's
another great excuse to do a little something to make her happy.

Why try to take the fun out of it for those of us who enjoy it? That's
like going around putting down Thanksgiving just because some folks gorge
themselves, and don't really get much of the original meaning from it.

Besides, if you want to, you can always go buy some candy and hand it out
to homeless folks Saturday. That would celebrate the original meaning
better.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 18 2007 3:49 am
From: "Rod Speed"

OhioGuy <none@none.net> wrote:
>> You may very well be right about Texas being in the top 10, but I
>> suspect that that's like saying that >Louisiana is one of the top
>> five states in the country for >"Talk Like A Pirate Day" -- it just
>> doesn't mean very
>>> much.

> Well, it means that the holiday is spreading, and that's good enough for me. I'm glad to know that something I'm
> used to here in Ohio will be quite common across the entire country by the time my kids are adults.

Fantasy, that con job never did fly.

> I really don't think that many people take holidays like
> "talk like a pirate day" very seriously, nor do they celebrate it.

True in spades of that con job too.

> However, people DO celebrate Sweetest Day.

Fuck all do.

> Millions of them do, including me.

Yep, there are actually that many that stupid.

>> It's really a shame that what may have started out as a >day for
>> doing something nice for the less fortunate has >been turned into
>> another excuse for crass >commercialism.

> It's only "crass commercialism" if you're the head of a company selling candy, or if you're a cynic.

Or if you actually have enough of a clue to have noticed who started that con job.

> If you're a romantic, you like buying your wife's favorite candy for her, and you like writing poems for her, then
> it's another great excuse to do a little something to make her happy.

Anyone with a clue doesnt need that con job to do that.

> Why try to take the fun out of it for those of us who enjoy it?

Because its just another con job.

> That's like going around putting down Thanksgiving just because some folks gorge themselves, and don't really get much
> of the original meaning from it.

Nope, nothing like. That wasnt a con job organised by some spivs and con men.

> Besides, if you want to, you can always go buy some candy and hand it out to homeless folks Saturday. That would
> celebrate the original meaning better.

Fuck them, the only 'homeless' in the US are druggys and lunatics.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 18 2007 4:36 am
From: Anthony Matonak

OhioGuy wrote:
>> You may very well be right about Texas being in the top 10, but I suspect
>> that that's like saying that >Louisiana is one of the top five states in
>> the country for >"Talk Like A Pirate Day" -- it just doesn't mean very
>>> much.
>
> Well, it means that the holiday is spreading, and that's good enough for
> me. I'm glad to know that something I'm used to here in Ohio will be quite
> common across the entire country by the time my kids are adults. I really
> don't think that many people take holidays like "talk like a pirate day"
> very seriously, nor do they celebrate it. However, people DO celebrate
> Sweetest Day. Millions of them do, including me.

I don't know about the midwest but "Talk Like a Pirate Day" is very
popular in Los Angeles. However, when it comes to celebrations there
is nothing to compare to Burning Man. I'm not sure if it's on many
calendars though.

>> It's really a shame that what may have started out as a >day for doing
>> something nice for the less fortunate has >been turned into another excuse
>> for crass >commercialism.
>
> It's only "crass commercialism" if you're the head of a company selling
> candy, or if you're a cynic.

It was started by the heads of companies selling candy so it's always
been about crass commercialism. You can't get around that.

> Why try to take the fun out of it for those of us who enjoy it? That's
> like going around putting down Thanksgiving just because some folks gorge
> themselves, and don't really get much of the original meaning from it.

Why try to force the spreading of such a silly, commercial, made up
holiday? That you enjoy it doesn't matter very much. There are people
that enjoy bondage and S&M but you don't see them promoting 'Tie your
partner down day' on a frugal living newsgroup.

You should be aware that there are a lot of people, especially native
americans, that do not enjoy Thanksgiving and see the entire holiday
as a celebration of some very evil events. This is similar to how the
English hardly ever celibate the 4th of July.

> Besides, if you want to, you can always go buy some candy and hand it out
> to homeless folks Saturday. That would celebrate the original meaning
> better.

If we want to, we can completely ignore it like we have all our lives
and just like we ignore a seemingly endless list of other holidays that
have no meaning to us.

Myself, I would be more likely to celebrate any of the following before
'sweetest day' and this is just a partial list for this month.

Vegetarian Day
Balloons Around The World
Child Health Day
Fire Pup Day
Older Persons Day
Guardian Angels Day
Phileas Fogg's Wager Day
Custodial Worker Day
Farm Animals Day
Diversity Day
World Smile Day
Ten-Four Day
Card Making Day
Country Inn & Bed and Breakfast Day
Intergeneration Day
World Communion Day
Teachers Day
Mad Hatter Day
Physician Assistant Day
World Habitat Day
Cosmopolite's Day
Natural Disaster Reduction Day
Top Spinning Day
Bring Your Teddy Bear To Work & School Day
Native Americans' Day
Leif Erickson Day
Depression Screening Day
World Post Day
Emergency Nurses Day
Cake Decorating Day
Naval Academy Day
Mental Health Day
General Pulaski Memorial Day
Newspaper Carrier Day
Coming Out Day
Reptile Awareness Day
Universal Music Day
Clergy Appreciation Day
Moment of Frustration Scream Day
Be Bald and Be Free Day
Grouch Day
White Cane Safety Day
Boss's Day
Department Store Day
Dictionary Day
Credit Union Day
World Food Day
Eradication of Poverty Day
Mammography Day
Mulligan Day
World Menopause Day
Toy Camera Day
Evaluate your Life Day
Day of Radiant Peace
Mole Day
Lung Health Day
United Nations Day
Make A Difference Day
World Priest Day
Cranky Co-workers Day
Mother-in-Law Day
Diwali
National Chocolates Day
Internet Day
Create A Great Funeral Day
Haunted Refrigerator Night
Knock-Knock Jokes Day
Samhain

You want to be sweet to someone? Why wait for a holiday? Why use candy?
Why not go out of your way to do something nice for them that doesn't
involve buying something?

Anthony

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Interesting Facts About Cell Phones
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1a36c78240cc69b6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 18 2007 4:37 am
From: sophialorra@gmail.com

The first practical cell phone in a non-vehicle setting, and which
could be handheld, was invented by Martin Cooper, the General Manager
(Communications Division) of Motorola, who made the world`s first
handheld cell phone (telefone celular) call on April 3, 1973...
http://personaltechinfo.googlepages.com/interesting_facts_about_cell_phones

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Thursday, October 18, 2007

25 new messages in 12 topics - digest

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