Frugal Living: 22 new messages in 12 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Where the heck is RodSpeed?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0a0929a17b2384e8?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 10:01 am
From: KarlMarx_MiddleClass_Ipod_HipHop

What is it, like sleepy time, or something, for you Rod?

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 11:18 am
From: "Leroy"

KarlMarx_MiddleClass_Ipod_HipHop wrote:
> What is it, like sleepy time, or something, for you Rod?

Jeez, get a room!

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 1:31 pm
From: KarlMarx_MiddleClass_Ipod_HipHop

On Dec 29, 2:18 pm, "Leroy" <leroy@ addy.invalid> wrote:
> KarlMarx_MiddleClass_Ipod_HipHop wrote:
> > What is it, like sleepy time, or something, for you Rod?
>
> Jeez, get a room!

LOL

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cheap survival idea to stay warm?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b29f75b086954dfc?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 10:08 am
From: CanopyCo

On Dec 28, 1:33 pm, keithco...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I am living in an old house that was once build for many kids. They
> run around and stay warm. That's why my house has no doors on the
> inside.

Put up curtains for doors to separate heat zones.
This will let you better heat areas where you are and not places you
seldom go.
These curtains can be as little as a sheet of plastic stapled to the
door frame to blankets nailed up.
I like shower curtains and rods as they are easy to do and do no
damage.
If you go with blankets, put up plastic too, as it tends to stop
drafts better then cloth will.

>I isolated the windows with plastic and tape and put curtains
> up to keep the heat of my space heater to keep one room warm. It helps
> a bit but it still feels like in a not very well isolated log cabin.
>
> I have a gas heater in the kitchen but the heat goes straight up to
> the ceiling and below, where I am sitting, it stays rather cold and
> gas is expensive too.

Take a fan and hang it in the corner of the ceiling pointing down.
I have a box fan set up that way on low, hanging from bungy cords and
O ended screws.

>
> I am mainly sitting around my desk and typing. I was thinking of
> building something around my desk to just keep me warm when sitting
> inside and doing my desk work and have an electrical heater blowing
> some heat at me. But the heat goes lost in the rather big rooms.
>
> I have currently no car to transport lumber in my house and start to
> build myself a shed within one of my rooms. I am also not too handly
> with hammer and tools. I know, it is a shame, but this is how it is.
>

Well, you will need to build it yourself unless you spend big, so you
will need to get hander with tools. ;-)

You can do all sorts of things, depending on how sturdy you want your
room inside a room to be.

I set things up to heat in the summer and cool in the winter so it can
be a little more sturdy.

If you build a wall, look at the Styrofoam sheet insulation.
It can be used as the wall itself, or hid behind paneling or even
plastic sheeting.
Also look at the dropped ceiling stuff for its ceiling.
It can be pretty easy to put up and does not have to be hung from the
ceiling to install.

By building a little room right around your desk work area you could
heat that really cheaply.
Just the 100 watt light bulbs inside it would help it out.

If you could move your office into the kitchen you would not need to
heat as many rooms and the cooking heat would help out.
Of course that depends on your kitchen.
Some of them were designed to loose heat for summer use.
If so, then you may want to move your heating stove out of there and
into the best insulated room.
Maybe your bedroom, for example.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 12:48 pm
From: Winston_Smith

On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 10:08:03 -0800 (PST), CanopyCo <Junk74020@aol.com>
wrote:

>Put up curtains for doors to separate heat zones.
>This will let you better heat areas where you are and not places you
>seldom go.

>These curtains can be as little as a sheet of plastic stapled to the
>door frame to blankets nailed up.
>I like shower curtains and rods as they are easy to do and do no
>damage.

Yes. Some years back I wanted to put off replacing the central AC so
I bought a huge window unit for the bedroom and moved the computer
table in there. It's my major entertainment center as well as window
to the world.

The first summer I kept the bedroom doors closed but I wanted a little
more. The next year I got smart enough to buy two drape panels at
K-Mart and a pair of spring loaded curtain rods. That let we put them
up without marking up the house and I probably could have taken them
back if the experiment was a failure.

The panels were something like 8 feet long - they were a perfect match
to the height of the ceiling. At 48" they are just the width of the
hall and it worked very well. I wished they had the 52" or wider
panels because I had to be careful to spread them out when I went
through. I"ve seen wider one since but what I did works.

Except on the hottest days, I could open the bedroom doors and keep
the hall storage cabinet area cool. In spring and fall I could leak
enough into the adjacent bedroom - which is set up as a work area - by
opening its door to the hall.

And that thing cost a whole lot less to run, even on the meat locker
setting, than the central AC trying to cool the whole house.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: AMT ??
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/24c6087a6b1730b9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 10:14 am
From: Dennis

On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 11:06:02 -0500, George <george@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>Have a sales tax *only* system. From what I have read it would need to
>be ~ 35% . The first thing that would happen is that people would react
>to the high rate when they purchased something because the government
>would have no other method to pull money out of your pocket such as the
>$15 from your cell phone etc so government spending would be in a
>spotlight because all taxes would be applied in one place.
>
>It would be totally fair because if you have the ability to buy more
>stuff you can afford the tax. The sales tax would have the same
>exemptions most do now for items such as unprepared food.
>
>
>It would also massively simplify accounting and collection since there
>wouldn't be thousands of conditions inserted into the tax laws.

Another added benefit is that it would also provide some tax revenue
from the underground economy that goes mostly untaxed now. Drug
dealers, white collar criminals with offshore accounts and the
under-the-table cash-only crowd have to buy things too.

Dennis (evil)
--
What government gives, it must first take away.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 11:32 am
From:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> It would be totally fair because if you have the ability to buy more
> stuff you can afford the tax. The sales tax would have the same exemptions
> most do now for items such as unprepared food.

Agreed, although the doofus who thinks that unless you are mega-rich you're
not paying your "fair share" would chastise the rest of us for not consuming
enough.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 1:45 pm
From: jdoe

On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 21:41:49 -0500, <h> wrote:

>
>>
>> I don't understand the losers like you who don't realize that the top
>> 10% of earners in the US pay about 95% of the taxes.
>> It is people like you who don't pay their fair share, and then they
>> want tax cuts fir them but not for the people who are actually paying
>> the taxes
>
>Huh? How am I not paying "my fair share"? I am self employed and live in NY
>(boonies, upstate-horrendously high percentage of tax). I pay $13,000 a
>year in taxes between state and federal income plus school and property on a
>gross income of $30,000 and a 2 bedroom/1 bath house (1,500 sq) assessed at
>$79,000 (full value), that I bought for $45,000 in 1991. How is 43% of my
>GROSS income not "paying my fair share"? Are you insane? Maybe if I'd
>decided to be a high-school dropout and had kids instead of going to college
>and being self-supporting I'd be getting some deductions, ya think? Do you
>really think that any of the super rich fork over 43% of THEIR gross income
>every year in taxes? I didn't think so. It's not the dollars, it's the
>percentage, stupid!!
>

it's no wonder you make so little, stay focused, the discussion is
about federal income taxes.
__________________________________________
Never argue with an idiot.
They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 2:30 pm
From:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> it's no wonder you make so little, stay focused, the discussion is
> about federal income taxes.

Umm, yeah, that's included in there, too. Since I'm self-employed they take
15% off the top to start, not just the 7.5% the wage slaves pay. And, since
when is $30,000 "so little"? It's more than I made in the corporate cube
farm.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 6:24 pm
From: jdoe

On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 17:30:33 -0500, <h> wrote:

>> it's no wonder you make so little, stay focused, the discussion is
>> about federal income taxes.
>
>Umm, yeah, that's included in there, too. Since I'm self-employed they take
>15% off the top to start, not just the 7.5% the wage slaves pay. And, since
>when is $30,000 "so little"? It's more than I made in the corporate cube
>farm.
>
30k a year? do you think that is a good salary? my teen aged son makes
15k a year working a few hours a week in the winter and 25 hours a
week in the summer. my property taxes are almost 20k a year.
__________________________________________
Never argue with an idiot.
They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 7:50 pm
From: Marsha

jdoe wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 17:30:33 -0500, <h> wrote:
>
>>>it's no wonder you make so little, stay focused, the discussion is
>>>about federal income taxes.
>>
>>Umm, yeah, that's included in there, too. Since I'm self-employed they take
>>15% off the top to start, not just the 7.5% the wage slaves pay. And, since
>>when is $30,000 "so little"? It's more than I made in the corporate cube
>>farm.
>>
>
> 30k a year? do you think that is a good salary? my teen aged son makes
> 15k a year working a few hours a week in the winter and 25 hours a
> week in the summer. my property taxes are almost 20k a year.
> __________________________________________

20k a year??? Do you own half of California? I'm never going to
complain about my taxes again.

Marsha/Ohio

==============================================================================
TOPIC: political relocation and Overpopulation Town Project
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3563d67aaa99fccb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 4:01 pm
From: Al

Meet the women who won't have babies - because they're not eco
friendly
By NATASHA COURTENAY-SMITH and MORAG TURNER - More by this author >>
Last updated at 22:05pm on 21st November 2007

Comments (30)
Had Toni Vernelli gone ahead with her pregnancy ten years ago, she
would
know at first hand what it is like to cradle her own baby, to have a
pair
of innocent eyes gazing up at her with unconditional love, to feel a
little hand slipping into hers - and a voice calling her Mummy.

But the very thought makes her shudder with horror.

Because when Toni terminated her pregnancy, she did so in the firm
belief
she was helping to save the planet.

Scroll down for more...

Desperate measures: Toni Vernelli was steralised at age 27 to reduce
her
carbon footprint

Incredibly, so determined was she that the terrible "mistake" of
pregnancy should never happen again, that she begged the doctor who
performed the abortion to sterilise her at the same time.

He refused, but Toni - who works for an environmental charity -
"relentlessly hunted down a doctor who would perform the
irreversible
surgery.

Finally, eight years ago, Toni got her way.

At the age of 27 this young woman at the height of her reproductive
years
was sterilised to "protect the planet".

Incredibly, instead of mourning the loss of a family that never was,
her
boyfriend (now husband) presented her with a congratulations card.

While some might think it strange to celebrate the reversal of
nature and
denial of motherhood, Toni relishes her decision with an almost
religious
zeal.

"Having children is selfish. It's all about maintaining your genetic
line
at the expense of the planet," says Toni, 35.

"Every person who is born uses more food, more water, more land,
more
fossil fuels, more trees and produces more rubbish, more pollution,
more
greenhouse gases, and adds to the problem of over-population."

While most parents view their children as the ultimate miracle of
nature,
Toni seems to see them as a sinister threat to the future.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=495495&in_page_id=1&in_page_id=1&expand=true

http://www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/68190-political-towns-extreme-places-political-relocation.html

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.childfree/browse_thread/thread/433390c60614cc23/442c33182294bb85?hl=en

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/TurningPoints/story?id=3747045&page=1

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Why_breed/

http://freetownproject.com/

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2140483&page=1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascadia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Exodus

http://christianexodus.org

http://news.scotsman.com/opinion.cfm?id=1918592007

http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3401106

http://www.projectprevention.org

Overpopulation or Childfree Town Project

http://www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/68190-politic

al-towns-extreme-places-political-relocation.html

Hi.

I am writing because I am interested in overpopulation activists in
small
towns. I am hoping that if overpopulation activists concentrate
forces
like the Libertarians of the Free Town Project,

http://freetownproject.com/ we can build a majority that can replace
public school, playground, ballfield, and childcare funding with
contraception and abortion funding and end up saving a great deal of
money especially since Social Security and Medicare funding are
mostly
federal and can be imported.

Housing unit size could also be limited to crowd large families but
regular zoning is a big problem because it makes it expensive for
overpopulation activists to move in and build a majority.

Anyway, what do you think? Can such a majority be built in your
hometown.
NYC is the only municipality I know of that funds abortions and it
is too
overcrowded and thus difficult and expensive to move to or build a
majority in. And NYC's abortion funding is still only a tiny
fraction of
their education funding.

Three groups likely to be allied in this municipal cause are gays,
especially conservative gays like Log Cabin Republicans, retirees,
who
would be hypocrites because they usually have grown children and
grandchildren but these grandchildren often live in different towns
and
would be unaffected by local education cuts, and Libertarians who
are
ideologically committed to small government.

-A

--------- Forwarded message ---------
Subject: My speech to County Commission

I came accross a shocking statistic. In America, and by
inference in Buncombe County, 2 out of 3 parents are so
environmentally
callous that they would turn down even subsidized contraception and
squeeze out babies anyway; which calls into question the ability of
local
contraception funding to save the planet from overpopulation.

But in that case there is something else a county can do and that is
to
stop susidizing parenthood. It is fundamental that the
responsibility to
fund schools, childcare, playgrounds and ballfields lies exclusively
with
parents.

So how is it fair that I, as a taxpaying nonparent, should be
subsidizing
such reproductive activities? There is no ethical construct by which
that
is fair. So since none of you seem to be funding contraception
anyway, I
might as well vote for those who would defund parenthood, while
contraception and abortion are so cost effective that funds can be
raised
privately. And of course that would, and does, switch me to the true
party of the environment, affordable housing and direct democracy,
the
Republicans.

The Republicans help the environment by cutting or attempting to cut
parental subsidies like playgrounds, childcare, ballfields and
public
schools, which is effective against overpopulation in a society in
which
most babies are planned.

Local Republicans oppose zoning which is bad for affordable housing,
and
Nathan Ramsey alone proposed a direct democratic referndum on
zoning,
which makes the Republicans the party of direct democracy.
-A

To the Editor:
Contrary to most political alliances and strategies, LGBTQ people
seem to
be making the most progress in the profit driven corporate world led
by
Log Cabin Republicans and HRC. To see why, one need only look at the
economics of LGBTQ communities like Provincetown MA. According to
the
2000 census, Provincetown had only 8% children, compared to about
25% for
the nation and 31% for the generally politically allied city of
Detroit.
This means LGBTQ communities are fundamentally different from most
other
minority communities in a way that is massively under appreciated,
totally politically incorrect, and lies at the very heart of
economic
conservatism.
<lj-cut text="Read more">
You are largely nonparents, with the economic interests of
nonparents.
And despite all the political rhetoric, what the corporations can
see is
that so far liberal government subsidies have done far more to
transfer
wealth from nonparents to parents than to move wealth from rich to
poor
adults; and when nonparents, like me, form communities and more
specifically school districts, we are relieved of huge tax burdens
and
consequently experience economic (and environmental) booms. It may
behoove nonparents to better understand and acknowledge this huge
and
inherently conservative factor and perhaps use it to rethink some
political alliances with minority parents versus those with
corporations.

See, I told you the ONLY answer was contraception, abortion and gay
rights. So get on task. The main problem is that the US town with
the
smallest percentage of children is not in Cascadia. It is the gay
community of Provincetown MA with 8% children compared to about 25%
nationally. Does Cascadia have a gay town like Provincetown? I will
be
voting Republican because they subsidize parenthood less in the form
of
schools, childcare, TANF, playgrounds, ballfields and family leave.
They
also reduce the population more by killing more anti-choice people
in the
middle east. Also, I am in the southeast and here the Republicans
are
further from the center and therefore more likely to seceed so that
you
can be rid of them. They are more for state's rights. Also, public
schools teach national unity, which is the real enemy of secession.
So
stop subsidizing them.
-A

Although I do some energy conservation work on a hands on basis, I
don't
think much of it as a political issue because direct
environmentalism
distracts attention and then funding from overpopulation and
contraception, which is the ONLY way to actually stop global
warming. The
windmills were for electric generation, but I don't much care. Seven
billion people just cannot live sustainably and efforts to do so are
counterproductive and diversionary. Though we could limit yachts to
400hp
(you lived in FL, those big semi-planers are truly absurd. It's
beyond me
why the little jet ski's get the complaints.) I'm more interested in
defunding parenthood including public education. Did you know that
Provincetown MA is only 8% children? San Francisco is 14%, the USA
about
25%, Detroit 31.1%, Maywood CA (a hispanic LA suburb) is 37% and
Colorado
City AZ (polygamist) is 60.4% children. What effect do you think
that has
on property taxes? especially since old age subsidies are mostly
federal.
Do you know of any towns with a larger or smaller percentage of
children
than 8% or 60.4%. If I can find a town outside the Northeast with 8%
children, I will move there and pay the property taxes. Though
Frisco is
both too big and too expensive for my tastes. Expensive may be
inevitable
because low property taxes would cause speculation. My county is
22.2%
children.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/48/4805000.html

I'm doing a lot of political and demographic research on localities
in
the west lately so I can figure out where I want to live. I can find
very
little reference material on comparitive municipal politics. It's
badly
neglected. There are many more towns to choose from than viable
political
parties.

A libertarian county has already been chosen, Loving County in the
west.
See,

http://freetownproject.com/

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2140483&page=1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascadia

http://christianexodus.org

I oppose public education because I am not a parent and wish to stop
subsidizing parenthood. However subsidized contraception is very
important and far more cost effective than public education, and
better
for the environment. Texas secession might tilt the balance enough
to
make this possible in the rest of the country.
-A

Local governments may be doing a bunch of myopic and reactive
environmental stuff, but they are doing almost nothing to reduce
fertility rates and are subsidizing parenthood heavily in the form
of
childcare, playgrounds, ballfields and public schools. Do any two
or
more members of this group live in the same town? county? state?
Anyone
here in Nevada? AZ? NM? eastern OR? west TX?
-A

Limiting housing counts does NOTHING for fertility rates and is a
myopic
digression from overpopulation. So in that sense I am pro-
development. I
want enough housing units for everyone ESPEICIALLY domestic migrants
who
may be moving for political purposes. I have no problem with
limiting the
SIZE of houses in order to crowd large families, but I oppose any
limits
on unit counts, unit densities, or building height. An
overpopulation
town funds contraception and abortion INSTEAD OF playgrounds,
ballfields,
childcare, or schools. It has NOTHING TO DO with land use policies
other
than banning ballfields.
-A

FRANCE'S HIGH BIRTH RATE PARTLY DUE TO GOVERNMENT INCENTIVE

France Only European Country With Replacement Level Fertility

France's "robust birth rate," which is "bucking the trend" of
declining
European birth rates, is "could be attributed to government support
for
people who have children.

Birth rates in European countries recently have reached a historic
low,
with the largest and most recent fall occurring in Eastern Europe.
All
European countries recorded birth rates of more than 1.3 children
per
woman.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Attractive American woman gang-raped by Halliburton thugs in 'safe'
Iraqi Green Zone testifies before Congress.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/227d8c83f28b86cb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 4:19 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"Joe" <useful_infos@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1c8749b3-d138-49a5-929e-01797d0a1634@f3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> See it via
>

http://muvy.org/new.php?entity=kbr

so, would it have mattered if she'd been unattractive?
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Memory Foam Mattresses
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e255a64d691bc4fb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 6:44 pm
From: The Real Bev

Anybody bought one recently? What do you think of the ones that Costco
sells?

--
Cheers, Bev
-----------------------------------------
"Not everyone can be above average so why
shouldn't we be the ones to suck?"
--Anonymous School Board Member

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 7:56 pm
From: Marsha

The Real Bev wrote:

> Anybody bought one recently? What do you think of the ones that Costco
> sells?
>

The rip-off model I purchased from a local company 7 years ago has been
fabulous, though I think the memory foam tends to hold in body heat a
bit more than traditional mattresses and, when you're having hot
flashes, that's not a good thing :-)

Marsha/Ohio

==============================================================================
TOPIC: China Nike Shop, Wholesale Nike Dunk, Nike Shox, Nike Air Max, Nike AF1
Cheap Price !
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4d461406beaf53b1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 6:57 pm
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Luxury Rolex Replica Watches
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8695be198769b189?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 7:23 pm
From: sales002@21replicawatch.com

Luxury Rolex Replica Watches

Replica Watches WebSite: www.21replicawatch.com , www.wholesale-watches.org
, (Wholesale) , www.haob2b.com .

Rolex Replica Watches :

http://www.21replicawatch.com/rolex_replica_watches.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/rolex-watches.html

Watches Links:

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Yachtmaster Mens Watch 168628-BLSO:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_168628.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-502.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Yachtmaster Mens Watch 16623-GYSO:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_16623GRY.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-503.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Yachtmaster Unisex Watch 168623-CSO:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_168623.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-504.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Yachtmaster Mens Watch 16623-CSO:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_16623CH.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-505.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Yacht-Master 18kt Gold Mens Watch 16628:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_16628.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-506.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Lady Datejust Ladies Watch 179174-MRJ:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Ladies_Watch_179174MRJ.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-474.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Lady Datejust Ladies Watch 179174-SDJ:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Ladies_Watch_179174SDJ.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-473.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Lady Datejust Ladies Watch 179166-BLR:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Ladies_Watch_179166BLR.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-481.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Lady Datejust Ladies Watch 179163-GYAO:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Ladies_Watch_179163GYAO.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-482.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Lady Datejust Ladies Watch 179160-WSJ:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Ladies_Watch_179160WSJ.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-483.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Lady Datejust Ladies Watch 179160-BLAO:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Ladies_Watch_179160BLAO.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-484.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Lady Datejust Ladies Watch 179178-MDP:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_179178DB.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-485.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Submariner Steel Mens Watch 14060M:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_14060M.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-329.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Submariner Date 18kt Gold Mens Watch 16618B:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_16618B.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-330.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Submariner Date 18kt Gold Mens Watch 16618:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_16618.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-331.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Submariner Date Two-Tone Steel Mens Watch
11613BK:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_16613BK.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-332.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Submariner Date Steel Mens Watch 16610:

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http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-333.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust Two-Tone 18kt Pink Gold and Steel Mens
Watch 16234J:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_116261.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-430.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust Two-Tone 18kt Gold and Steel Mens
Watch 116233CO:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_116233CO.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-431.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust Two-Tone 18kt Gold and Steel Mens
Watch 116233CJ:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_116233CJ.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-432.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust Steel White Mens Watch 116234-63200:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Mens_Watch_116234_63200.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-433.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Lady Datejust 178274-PSO:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Datejust_178274_PSO.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-434.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust Ladies Watch 79174BK:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Oyster_Ladies_Watch_79174BK.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-435.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Cosmograph Daytona Mens Watch 116523-WDO:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Mens_Watch_116523WDO.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-339.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Cosmograph Daytona Mens Watch 116528-WDO:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Mens_Watch_116528WDO.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-340.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Cosmograph Daytona Mens Watch 116523-WSO:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Mens_Watch_116523WSO.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-341.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Cosmograph Daytona Mens Watch 116523-MDO:

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http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-342.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Cosmograph Daytona Mens Watch 116528-WSO:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Mens_Watch_116528WSO.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-343.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Cosmograph Daytona Mens Watch 116518-MDL:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Mens_Watch_116518MDL.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-344.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust Mens Watch 116234-BLSJ:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/rolex_oyster_datejust_watch_116234_BLSJ.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-379.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Lady Datejust Ladies Watch 179174-MDJ:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Ladies_Watch_179174MDJ.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-475.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Lady Datejust Ladies Watch 179173-MSJ:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Ladies_Watch_179173MSJ.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-476.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Lady Datejust Ladies Watch 179173-CSO:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Ladies_Watch_179173CSO.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-477.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Lady Datejust Ladies Watch 179173-CSJ:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Ladies_Watch_179173CSJ.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-478.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Lady Datejust Ladies Watch 179173-CDJ:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Ladies_Watch_179173CDJ.html

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Rolex Oyster Perpetual Lady Datejust Ladies Watch 179171-WSJ:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Ladies_Watch_179171WSJ.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-480.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Submariner Date Mens Watch 16613-BLSO:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Mens_Watch_16613BLSO.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-327.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Submariner Date Mens Watch 16613-GYDO:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Mens_Watch_16613GYDO.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-328.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Submariner Date 18kt Gold with Diamonds and
Sapphires Mens Watch 16613CDD:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_16618DD.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-334.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Submariner Date Two-Tone Steel with Diamonds
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http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_16613CDD.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-335.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Cosmograph Daytona Mens Watch 116528-MRO:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Mens_Watch_116528MRO.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-336.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Cosmograph Daytona Mens Watch 116528-MDO:

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Rolex Oyster Perpetual Cosmograph Daytona Mens Watch 116523-MAO:

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Rolex Oyster Perpetual Cosmograph Daytona Mens Watch 116518-WAL:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Mens_Watch_116518WAL.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-345.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Cosmograph Daytona Mens Watch 116518-WDL:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Mens_Watch_116518WDL.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-346.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Cosmograph Daytona Mens Watch 116518-BKDL:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Mens_Watch_116519BKDL.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-347.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Cosmograph Daytona Mens Watch 116518-BMRL:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Mens_Watch_116518BMRL.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-348.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Cosmograph Daytona Mens Watch 116519-MTRL:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Mens_Watch_116519MTRL.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-349.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Cosmograph Daytona Mens Watch 116519-WAL:

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Rolex Oyster Perpetual Cosmograph Daytona 18kt White Gold Mens Watch
116519:

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Rolex Daytona Oyster Perpetual Men's Watch White 116520:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/rolex_116520.html

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Rolex Oyster Perpetual Cosmograph Daytona 18kt White Gold Mens Watch
116519:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_116519.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-354.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Cosmograph Daytona 18kt Gold Mens Watch 116518:

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Rolex Oyster Perpetual Day-Date 18kt White Gold Diamond Mens Watch
118239WD:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_118239wd.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-356.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Day-Date Mens Watch 118239-WR:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Mens_Watch_118239WR.html

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Rolex Oyster Perpetual Day-Date Mens Watch 118239-SD:

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Rolex Oyster Perpetual Day-Date Mens Watch 118206-SD:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Mens_Watch_118206SD.html

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Rolex Oyster Perpetual Day-Date Mens Watch 118206-BLR:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Mens_Watch_118206BLR.html

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Rolex Oyster Perpetual Day-Date 18kt Yellow Gold Mens Watch 118238:

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Rolex Oyster Perpetual Day-Date Gold Diamond Mens Watch 118348CDP:

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118208CDD:

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Rolex Oyster Perpetual Day-Date 18kt Yellow Gold Diamond Mens Watch
118348CBR:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_118348CBR.html

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Rolex Oyster Perpetual Day-Date 18kt Yellow Gold Diamond Mens Watch
118238DD:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_118238DD.html

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http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-367.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Day-Date 18kt Yellow Gold Diamond Mens Watch
118348:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_118348.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-368.html

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80319PM:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_80319PM.html

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80309PM:

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http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-370.html

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Diamond Ladies Watch 80318PM:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_80318PM.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-371.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Lady Datejust Pearlmaster Diamond Ladies Watch
80299PM:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_80299PM.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-372.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Lady Datejust Pearlmaster 18kt Yellow Gold
Diamond Ladies Watch 80318CD:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_80318CD.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-373.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Lady Datejust Pearlmaster Diamond Ladies Watch
80319PMAC:

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Diamond Ladies Watch 80318C:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_80318C.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-375.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Sea Dweller 4000 Mens Watch 16600-BSO:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Mens_Watch_16600BSO.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-376.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Explorer II Mens Watch 16570-WSO:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Mens_Watch_16570WSO.html

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Rolex Oyster Perpetual Explorer Mens Watch 114270-BKAO:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Mens_Watch_114270BKAO.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-378.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust Mens Watch 116200-BLSJ:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/rolex_oyster_datejust_watch_116200_BLSJ.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-380.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust Mid-size 178274BKRO:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Oyster_Perpetual_178274_BKRO.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-381.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust Mens Watch 116200-BKRJ:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Datejust_116200_BKRJ.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-382.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust Two-Tone Mens Watch 116263-WSO:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/rolex_oyster_datejust_watch_116263_WSO.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-383.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust Mens Watch 116264-BLSJ:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/rolex_oyster_datejust_watch_116264_BLSJ.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-384.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust Two-Tone Mens Watch 116263-WSJ:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/rolex_oyster_datejust_watch_116263_WSJ.html

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Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust Mens Watch 116233-WRJ:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Mens_Watch_116233WRJ.html

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Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust Mens Watch 116233-SRJ:

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Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust Mens Watch 116233-SDJ:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Mens_Watch_116233SDJ.html

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Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust Mens Watch 116233-SBKSJ:

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http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Mens_Watch_116233SAJ.html

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Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust Mens Watch 116233-GYDJ:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Mens_Watch_116233GYDJ.html

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Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust Mens Watch 116233-CORJ:

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Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust Mens Watch 116233-BKSJ:

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http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-397.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust Mens Watch 116233-BKSBRJ:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Mens_Watch_116233BKSBRJ.html

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Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust Mens Watch 116233-BKRJ:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Mens_Watch_116233BKRJ.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-399.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust Mens Watch 116233-BKDJ:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Mens_Watch_116233BKDJ.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-400.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust Mens Watch 116200-WSO:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Mens_Watch_116200WSO.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-401.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust Mens Watch 116200-WRO:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Mens_Watch_116200WRO.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-402.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust Mens Watch 116200-SSO:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Mens_Watch_116200SSO.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-403.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust Mens Watch 116200-SRO:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Mens_Watch_116200SRO.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-404.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust Mens Watch 116200-SAO:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Mens_Watch_116200SAO.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-405.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust Mens Watch 116200-PRO:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Mens_Watch_116200PRO.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-406.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust Mens Watch 116200-BLSO:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Mens_Watch_116200BLSO.html

http://www.wholesale-watches.org/wristwatch-407.html

Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust Mens Watch 116200-BLRO:

http://www.21replicawatch.com/Rolex_Mens_Watch_116200BLRO.html

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TOPIC: how to make fluros more friendly?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/de7a8d1aaed7aa13?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 8:53 pm
From: "Linda"

We've just replaced some light fittings and on advice from a few people and
things we've read decided to go with ones that take 11w compact fluros.
It's all installed, and now looks great - until you turn the lights on and
then the whole room looks cold and washed out. The fittings take 3 of the
lights at once (kind of like spots) and it's still relatively dim in the
room - which means we really couldn't go any lower wattage like the 7watt
that is available but we're really disappointed in the appearance. We
bought the bulbs from a light shop so in theory they are good quality, and
were quite expensive, and they said you could get ones that were kind of
blue tinted, or more natural - which these were in theory, but I can't
imagine putting up with this lighting for 5 or more years while they
continue to improve the technologies.
Are there any tricks like painting the bulbs or anything like that to help
filter out the harsh tones? (Don't laugh at me!!)

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 10:17 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In article <47772445$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>, Linda wrote:

>We've just replaced some light fittings and on advice from a few people and
>things we've read decided to go with ones that take 11w compact fluros.
>It's all installed, and now looks great - until you turn the lights on and
>then the whole room looks cold and washed out. The fittings take 3 of the
>lights at once (kind of like spots) and it's still relatively dim in the
>room - which means we really couldn't go any lower wattage like the 7watt
>that is available but we're really disappointed in the appearance. We
>bought the bulbs from a light shop so in theory they are good quality, and
>were quite expensive, and they said you could get ones that were kind of
>blue tinted, or more natural - which these were in theory, but I can't
>imagine putting up with this lighting for 5 or more years while they
>continue to improve the technologies.
>Are there any tricks like painting the bulbs or anything like that to help
>filter out the harsh tones? (Don't laugh at me!!)

I would go to Home Depot or a lighting or electrical/lighting supply
shop and get some same wattage ones of 2700K color temperature. Possibly
go up slightly in wattage also.

Your symptoms sound like you have a higher color temperature, closer to
daylight. I find achieving a more daylight-like overall color to be
hyped, and tending to give a "dreary gray" appearance from home lighting
at typical living room lighting levels.

Now, for the common color temperatures, what they mean, and how they
usually do in various applications:

2700 K: This is the usual CFL color, and is an incandescent approximation
often but not always a hair more orangish. Higher wattage CFLs and
magnetically-ballasted ones often look a hair more pinkish than
incandescent. Spirals of this color and wattage 19 watts or less usually
have a good incandescent-like color. If they are in small enclosed
fixtures or in downlights, they can heat up and get a slight color shift
to less orangish and more blue-greenish-whitish, though I find them
generally rataining a pleasant color.
In my experience, minor color mismatches are more objectionable when you
have a mixture of different lights so that you can see the color
differences.

3000 K: This appears to me to now be the "standard incandescentlike warm
color" of Sylvania, the main brand at Lowes. My experience is that
Sylvania 3000K is not a color matching halogen (also nominlly 3000 K), but
slightly less yellowish and more pinkish. I find that to make these
appear more harsh in appearance, but I do find the color rendering
properties to be good.

3500 K: This is a "whiter warm white". I find it pleasant, though it can
appear a bit stark or dreary-gray at lower to moderate lighting levels. I
find it very pleasant at higher lighting levels, such as lighting levels
typical of kitchens and bathrooms.

4100 K: This is a "neutral white" color, same color as "cool white"
fluorescents but with improved color rendering properties. It can
somewhat easily give a "dreary gray" appearance. I would use it where
illumination levels will be high, such as in desk lamps.

5000 K: This is a less common one, and the color is an icy cold pure
white - about the same as midday tropical sunlight with clean clear air or
midday subtropical sunlight in late spring or early summer with clean
clear air. It sometimes appears very slightly bluish. However, I find it
to easily appear stark and prone to causing a "dreary-gray effect" in home
lighting.

5500 K: This is a very slightly more-blue-still icy cold white. It is
the "Daylight" option of the N:Vision brand, at Home Depot.

6500 K: This is a bluish white "Daylight" color. I see this as a color
option of some GE spirals at Target and some Sylvania spirals at Lowes. I
do find it hard for this color to be attractive rather than stark or
causing "dreary gray effect" unless illumination level gets to a good
couple thousand footcandles (20,000-plus lux) or so, maybe close to the
intensity of direct sunlight.

One thing I do find higher color temperatures to be good for: Nighttime
outdoor illumination, and low level (like nightlight) illumination of
large areas. Higher color temperature means more of wavelengths favorable
to night vision.

But for most home illumination, I would use 2700 to 3500 Kelvin color
temperature.

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/072147bbeeb4a6a6?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 2:15 pm
From: timeOday

JL wrote:
> Damn, making 10K/month and having to use plastic tells me your lifestyle
> is way too lavish. At that income level, you should be able to pay in
> cash for whatever you need. I suspect you live in a pricey real estate
> area like the San Francisco Bay Area or San Diego or New York and have
> one of those insane $4000/month mortgages.

Housing is always expensive in markets where pay is good. Can't have
your cake and eat it too.

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== 1 of 1 ==
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/716e753446d7708b?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 11:13 pm
From: xiaoshifeng029@gmail.com

We are wholesale each kind of Shoes, Jeans, T-shirts,
Sunglasses,Handbags, Wallets, Sandals, Watches,Cap, Belt... from
China. In the process of fast development,(http://
www.netfashion2008.com) are looking forward to cooperation with inner
and abroad business partners.We will work hard to meet the interests
of our customers to boost our advantage. We are sure we will be one of
your best ideal cooperation partners.

We export our brand shoes all over world because of our competitive
price, good quality products and good service. All our products are
guaranteed to be a minimum of AAA+ quality. Our price and good service
are often appreciated by our customers. So we can get repeat order to
sustain our development. Your support of our business is very
thankful.

We deliver all our orders promptly via EMS/UPS/DHL/FEDEX/TNT. A
typical delivery time is around 7 days from dispatch in China to
arriving at your door. We ship worldwide and guarantee delivery.
Payment we prefer Western Union Bank-of-China ,please click this site:
(http://www.netfashion2008.com/payment.asp)

Our products are popular all over the world with high quality, low
price, timely delivery and best service. We will update the latest
style and stocks frequently. You are welcome to visit our website to
learn more information of our shoes and search the items you are
interested in.

We respect all our clients and we'd like to share with them on mutual
benefit. We want to strengthen friendship between us. If you are
interested in our products or service please contact us without delay.
We are waiting to serve you. You are welcome to visit our website:
(http://www.netfashion2008.com) !

MSN: netfashion2008@hotmail.com
Yahoo:netfashion2008@yahoo.cn

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