Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 14 topics

Saturday, December 29, 2007

25 new messages in 14 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

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TOPIC: Cheap survival idea to stay warm?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b29f75b086954dfc?hl=en
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== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 12:51 am
From: NorthWet

>
> Oh man, I used to work with a blanket wrapped over my head in my 1920
> house. Then I started insulating and the improvement is beyond dramatic.
>
Snip
>
> Jeff

Yes, yes, & more yes! However allow me to expand on this one
suggestion a bit:

"In the meantime, search and destroy any air leaks in your house
envelope."

I do house remodeling/repair/handyman type stuff for a living. Can't
count the number of times I've been told they already searched high
and low and couldn't find the source of the draft. Grab a couple of
tubes of painter's caulk (and a bit of common sense - I'm running
blind - if you have carpet please don't try all of this at home) and
head for your baseboard. Caulk along the seam with the wall, and if at
all possible caulk the seam with the floor. I've opened walls to find
some rather interesting construction techniques. Never assume you
don't have wind tunnels for walls. It's easy to underestimate this one
but there are houses snakes have wiggled their way in through there
(without it being apparent) - wind will pose no challenge.

Head for the windows. Caulk the seam between the window frame and the
wall. Same for exterior doors.

Check outlets, switches, etc. especially on exterior walls (though
some homes also have issues when the top of the wall is open to the
attic (no fire blocking etc.). Install the insulating insets for them.
Pulled a thermostat with plans to replace it only to discover it
wasn't shutting down properly due to a major windtunnel blasting at
me. Interior wall ... one never knows ....

IF you have any cracking along the ceiling/wall joint - this can be a
problem area (though seldom is). Again, it all depends on how creative
they were when building your home. (Hint: I wouldn't buy anything
built during the depression unless I planned on torching it - too many
shortcuts)

When caulking - keep a damp rag with you. Moisten your finger with the
water (NOT dripping!) then use your finger to smooth the caulk for a
nice smooth, more likely to hide, appearance. (Next time you paint
you'll end up with a much better looking job for the effort ;-) Or you
can cut the fingers off a pair of gloves, dip the glove finger into
the water then use it to smooth.

If after caulking you still have a draft, use a candle to help you
locate it.

If nothing else, learn to wear a hat inside. I don't DO cold - sends
me into hibernation mode. One winter I was doing a major penny pinch
thang. Normally I require it to be 72ish. Wearing a hat I found I
could the thermostat down to 62/64 and not even notice it.

Camille

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 6:21 am
From: Winston_Smith

On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 00:51:18 -0800 (PST), NorthWet
<northwet@gmail.com> wrote:

> Never assume you
>don't have wind tunnels for walls. It's easy to underestimate this one
>but there are houses snakes have wiggled their way in through there
>(without it being apparent) - wind will pose no challenge.

Would you believe a cat in the hot air furnace return duct. It was a
split level, four levels if you count the basement - three living
levels. Return ducts from all three levels to the furnace.

I was going up the steps to the bedrooms on the top level when I heard
this frantic meowing. OK, cat trapped in a closet or some such. Not
uncommon. I searched all the obvious and typical places, no cat but
still the meowing. I carefully followed the sound. Little whiskers
sticking through the grill.

I get a screwdriver, remove grill, remove cat. What the, huh?

End of story for a couple weeks. Repeat. For a while the most
rational explanation I could come up with was, the cat was a witch.

By the third event I figured out that every time it happened, I
thought the cat was outside. When it happened again I took out the
cat, put a plate of yummies in the duct, showed the happy cat, then
threw his butt out.

I followed him. Headed right for the garage. By the time I got there
and opened the door, the cat was on top of a set of shelves
disappearing into the rafters. I went back in the house to find the
cat chowing down on his goodies.

The top floor overhung the ground level below it by a foot or two.
This was hidden, for appearance sake, by a little decorative porch.
There were the beams that support the bedroom floor and the ones that
made up the top of the pitched roof of the porch and a little cat
sized triangle path from rafter to rafter walking on the inside of the
porch roof plywood.

I had never thought my heating bill was real high but I'm frugal with
the thermostat to keep it down. I bought some thick batts of
insulation to match the six or eight inch height of the floor support
beams and worked a six foot length in from the return duct opening.
That stopped the cat and kept the furnace from drawing outside air
freely. There was an improvement on the natural gas bill but
surprisingly not that much. I could have put in a solid vertical
block but it never seemed required.

There must have been a situation like this between each of probably a
dozen floor support beams but I couldn't get at them without ripping
up the flooring or the roof of the porch. I did block the triangle
opening that I could get at from the garage.

>Pulled a thermostat with plans to replace it only to discover it
>wasn't shutting down properly due to a major windtunnel blasting at
>me. Interior wall ... one never knows ....

In my present house the same thermostat setting gave me hot in the
winter and cool in the summer. I pulled it and found out why. It's
in the hall and the other side of the wall is the back of a large
closet in the master bedroom.

The roof is insulated of course, but the closet walls are not since
they are all inside walls. Sheetrock on studs. Unlike the rest of
the house the air in the closet is not exchanged so it's always a few
degrees toward outside temps relative to what it is in the house -
hotter in the summer from heat leaked in from the roof and cooler in
the winter from heat leaked out to the roof.

That heated the thermostat in summer making the AC run more resulting
in a cool house for a given setting. And it cooled the thermostat in
the winter making the heat pump run more for a warm house for the same
setting. I filled the cavity between studs above and below the
thermostat with some insulation and things got much more consistent.

>Camille

Back to my old split level. The basement walls were cinder block from
the floor to above ground level. The top foot and a half was
conventional frame - and un-insulated. I bought some rolls of
insulation, cut off about four foot lengths. I put each piece
vertically on the outside wall and then curved horizontally under the
first couple feet of the floor above. It made the living room floor
much warmer.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 6:26 am
From: "Stormin Mormon"

You can not get a bumble bee to fly.

Well, actually, both have been done for centuries.

Christopher A. Young
.
.

"Jeff" <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote in message
news:13nbm8nirupq01@corp.supernews.com...

You can not heat an uninsulated house.

Jeff

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 7:09 am
From: "Janie"

> If nothing else, learn to wear a hat inside. I don't DO cold - sends
> me into hibernation mode. One winter I was doing a major penny pinch
> thang. Normally I require it to be 72ish. Wearing a hat I found I
> could the thermostat down to 62/64 and not even notice it.
>
> Camille

Great suggestion!

A hat helps, but I like to wear hoodie sweatshirts instead. The hood keeps
your neck and ears warm too. You can even layer a couple of hoodie
sweatshirts for more warmth. You may want to try wearing a double layer of
sweatpants too.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 8:20 am
From: "Bill"

Get some large plastic like for painting drop cloth or tarp and nails or a
staple gun. Then reduce the size of the room where the space heater is.

Just staple a long piece of plastic to the ceiling and run it from wall to
wall cutting the room in half. Might also be able to lower the ceiling by
stapling plastic to the walls.

Then this will keep the heat in a smaller area.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 8:39 am
From: PaPaPeng

On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 00:51:18 -0800 (PST), NorthWet
<northwet@gmail.com> wrote:

>If after caulking you still have a draft, use a candle to help you
>locate it.

Aaahh. Use an incense stick to locate air leaks. I dread an open
flame near any fabrics and wood.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: AMT ??
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/24c6087a6b1730b9?hl=en
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== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 1:52 am
From: clams_casino

SpammersDie wrote:

><h> wrote in message news:4775b371$0$16645$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
>
>>>I don't understand the losers like you who don't realize that the top
>>>10% of earners in the US pay about 95% of the taxes.
>>>It is people like you who don't pay their fair share, and then they
>>>want tax cuts fir them but not for the people who are actually paying
>>>the taxes
>>>
>>>
>>Huh? How am I not paying "my fair share"? I am self employed and live in
>>NY (boonies, upstate-horrendously high percentage of tax). I pay $13,000
>>a year in taxes between state and federal income plus school and property
>>on a gross income of $30,000 and a 2 bedroom/1 bath house (1,500 sq)
>>assessed at $79,000 (full value), that I bought for $45,000 in 1991. How
>>is 43% of my GROSS income not "paying my fair share"? Are you insane?
>>Maybe if I'd decided to be a high-school dropout and had kids instead of
>>going to college and being self-supporting I'd be getting some deductions,
>>ya think? Do you really think that any of the super rich fork over 43% of
>>THEIR gross income every year in taxes? I didn't think so.
>>It's not the dollars, it's the percentage, stupid!!
>>
>>
>
>Why? "Percentages" don't pay the bills. Dollars do. Even if we accept your
>unproven assertion that the "super rich" aren't paying anywhere near the
>same percentage, they're still contributing far more dollars than you to the
>kitty.
>
>
>
>
Well duh. You get a gold star. 30% of $1M > 30% of $30k.

Not the brightest star in the sky, are you?

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 6:25 am
From:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Well duh. You get a gold star. 30% of $1M > 30% of $30k.
>
> Not the brightest star in the sky, are you?

He just doesn't get it. Of course the super rich are paying in more dollars.
However, they are paying a lower percentage, and they certainly don't miss
the money. If you're going to base taxes on percentage of income, then
everyone should pay out the same percentage. It would be better if taxes
were flat rate, with no deductions. You make X, you pay Y, no matter what
you own or how many dependents you have.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 7:01 am
From: "SpammersDie"

<h> wrote in message news:4776584c$0$28875$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Of course the super rich are paying in more dollars.

And hence, the "super rich" are the ones paying more than their fair share.
You are not, contrary to your haughty OP.

It *is* the dollars that matter, not the percentages.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 7:18 am
From: "Janie"

<h> wrote in message news:4776584c$0$28875$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> Well duh. You get a gold star. 30% of $1M > 30% of $30k.
>>
>> Not the brightest star in the sky, are you?
>
>
> He just doesn't get it. Of course the super rich are paying in more
> dollars. However, they are paying a lower percentage, and they certainly
> don't miss the money. If you're going to base taxes on percentage of
> income, then everyone should pay out the same percentage. It would be
> better if taxes were flat rate, with no deductions. You make X, you pay Y,
> no matter what you own or how many dependents you have.

What, have everybody pay the same percentage without any deductions! Hey, I
love your idea. Now, we just have a couple of problems to solve before we
can put that system in place: Get the IRS people and all the tax accountants
to accept the idea and get Congress to agree to the plan. If the system is
easy then the vast majority of tax people will become unemployed. How do we
get the system to make taxes simple when so many people have a major
interest in seeing things remain as complicated as possible?
>
>
>

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 8:06 am
From: George

Janie wrote:

> How do we
> get the system to make taxes simple when so many people have a major
> interest in seeing things remain as complicated as possible?
>>
>>
>
>
Have a sales tax *only* system. From what I have read it would need to
be ~ 35% . The first thing that would happen is that people would react
to the high rate when they purchased something because the government
would have no other method to pull money out of your pocket such as the
$15 from your cell phone etc so government spending would be in a
spotlight because all taxes would be applied in one place.

It would be totally fair because if you have the ability to buy more
stuff you can afford the tax. The sales tax would have the same
exemptions most do now for items such as unprepared food.

It would also massively simplify accounting and collection since there
wouldn't be thousands of conditions inserted into the tax laws.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Please help - I need to get my credit card debt under control
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/072147bbeeb4a6a6?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 3:10 am
From: "SpammersDie"

> I'm going to look into bankrate.com. I realize that I'm not the "plum
> borrower" a picky lender would snap up in a second, but I also assume
> that there are some lenders out there savvy enough to know that 25+
> years of very good credit, no missed payments, no defaults, balances
> paid in full almost all that time, etc., is worth lending to at a
> higher rate than their best customers get, that happens to be a lower
> rate than I'm paying now. Not "more credit" but as a means to close
> out the existing debt I have.

"Balances paid in full" is not a selling point you want to emphasize. Card
companies are in business to make money off finance charges. They detest
people who never revolve a balance. For that matter, they also detest people
who never trigger a late fee. They just can't admit it in polite company.

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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 3:55 am
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Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 4:00 am
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Free Dine With Your Canine Pet Food Sample!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6e0a20af2c2a1164?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 6:26 am
From: "FreebiesPl.us"

Free Dine With Your Canine Pet Food Sample!
http://www.freebiespl.us/?p=379

==============================================================================
TOPIC: :::@@==>>3 FREE LIVE CAMS<<==@@:::
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/05dfdff83011c665?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 7:50 am
From: cindy-sexy

:::@@==>>Earth to earth Ashes to ashes dust to dust<<==@@:::

Hello I would like you see this page And tell me what do you think
It´s free www.Man-X.org 3 FREE LIVE CAMS!!
Thank you very much

==============================================================================
TOPIC: RodSpeed, I think Bill Hicks was right
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0702177b9d87b012?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 8:29 am
From: KarlMarx_MiddleClass_Ipod_HipHop

The future is in marketing:

http://www.bagborroworsteal.com/

I miss the comedian Bill Hicks. He was potty mouthed but not afraid to
point out how caught up we are in vanity. Maybe if he, Elvis and
Marilyn Monroe did not die so soon after creating a raucous in media
ports, they would just be contenders on Biggest Losers or hanging with
Ringo Starr at the pool.

RodSpeed, not sure if you are man, woman, computer, pedophile or
government inbreed, but you are one of the few that will survive when
deserts spread, water becomes more valuable than gold and sex still
sells.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: RodSpeed, you listen to House of Pain?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e17d5f6d93574d90?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 9:21 am
From: KarlMarx_MiddleClass_Ipod_HipHop

Just discovered this rap group. They are interesting with their accent
in meter prose of rap:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZZADbubu0Y

If the world could just promote more of this type of music and shear
human potential, maybe we could grow flowers in the desert and avoid
conflagration of bad netiquette.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 9:26 am
From: KarlMarx_MiddleClass_Ipod_HipHop

Oh too much, I need some relief from youtube. Too much comedy on it
and to think that RodSpeed is experiencing the beginning of summer.
Was that whole Pangea thing true? Australia shares geology with the
Americas?

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 9:38 am
From: KarlMarx_MiddleClass_Ipod_HipHop

Another one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpV5InLw52U

Roddy, you guys have some Aussie version of CSI like here in the USA?
We have Miami CSI which is actually simple enough to follow along with
that I am not surprise it is a hit. All you need is cool dialog, good
looking actors and some good camera and video techniques and you can
reinvent the wheel perpetually. I think in the year 2076 there will be
a media series about internet bloggers and how they survived a comet
because they were in their folks' basement typing away while their Hot
pockets caught fire above in the fridge.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Rodspeed, you think gift cards are barter that states are afraid will
take off?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/afb5c825dd0557e7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 9:49 am
From: KarlMarx_MiddleClass_Ipod_HipHop

On Dec 28, 1:44 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The hippys have been doing that for centurys now.
> It doesnt appeal to enough people to matter.

You got that right.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ^^ Free Adult Movies ^^- Merry Xmas!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c0412dfef851f5e5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2007 10:00 am
From: iverssom@gmail.com

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==============================================================================

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Frugal Living

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Saturday, December 29, 2007

25 new messages in 14 topics - digest

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