http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en
misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* Will an oil-filled radiator save me money? - 8 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f6eb6f9a24be546e?hl=en
* Debit card article in Reader's Digest - 6 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/30646f032f4ff9e6?hl=en
* RodSpeed, do you think major inflation is imminent globally? - 5 messages, 5
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/07987411c86cacd3?hl=en
* web capable phones - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/848900c8eb438654?hl=en
* RodSpeed, how is gold doing in your neck of the woods? - 2 messages, 2
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f2ad60336cac92ae?hl=en
* More Selective reporting from Limbaugh - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/306db91f018962b9?hl=en
* Exploding television... - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/354f162529b27d4f?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Will an oil-filled radiator save me money?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f6eb6f9a24be546e?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 7:00 am
From: Joe
On Dec 21, 9:35 am, freeisbest
>
> At first reading, it appears that consulting with your local
> utilities company and also experiment in the real world are missing.
> We don't have enough information to be very helpful. For instance,
> are your house walls insulated? Do you have storm windows? Do you
> live in on a heavily forested north slope in Maine?
Yes I believe my walls are insulated yet there seems to have been some
obvious settling over the years? Can I blow in extra insulation? How
does that work? The house is located in lower CT. It gets cold but
rarely lower than the 20's although it can spend a whole month there.
I wasn't thinking I'd be able to turn off my oil heat, but maybe I
could lower it to the mid 50's at night and part of the day so it
cycles less, just wondering if anyone else has used oil heaters to
augment and save.
== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 7:19 am
From: "Lou"
"Joe" <joe5345@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:566833c7-3dc2-4d8d-8584-e179d4615977@p1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 21, 6:32 am, Shawn Hirn <s...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > Impossible to say. Each person's house is unique. How warm do you prefer
> > your home to be?
>
> right now I'm wearing two fleece jackets, fleece pants and fleece
> socks just so I can keep my thermostat at 65
>
> How well insulated is your home?
> It's a 50 year old home that I bought last year. the Windows are 50
> years old and although there are no real breezes coming through I
> thinnk their full insulative properties went bye bye long ago. I've
> somewhat eliminated all the breezes coming from outlets and doors but
> the outside walls are still too cold to the touch for warm air to
> stick around too long. That combined with the cold windows seem to cut
> down on the residual heat circulation.
>
> How's the air
> > circulation?
>
> Not great. The upstairs is consistently colder than the downstairs by
> 2-3 degrees, that's why I'm thinking a space heater upstairs (2 rooms)
> would save me money because I wouldn't have to heat up the whole
> downstairs to stay warm at night.
My Dad grew up in a farmhouse in central Massachusetts in the 1920's. There
was no heat on the second floor where the bedrooms are, and he says he used
to sleep with the window open even in midwinter. I don't know how much of
that is hyperbole, but if you're cold at night, there are alternatives to
running the furnace.
The first is pyjamas. The next is a quilt on the bed. The next (my
favorite) is an electric blanket with a light cover over it to keep cold air
from seeping in at the edges. Combine your choice of these with a
programmable thermostat so that you don't get up to a freezing cold house in
the morning. The effect of cold windows can be mitigated with well fitted
shades and closeable curtains.
> The best way to find out is to try it. The cost of a couple
> > of good oil-filled space heaters is a lot less than $400, so give it a
> > try and see how it works out for you.
>
> $200? I've notices there are some well rated models in the $40-$70
> rannge. Should I stay away from going so cheap?
>
== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 7:30 am
From: Jeff
Joe wrote:
> On Dec 21, 6:32 am, Shawn Hirn <s...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Impossible to say. Each person's house is unique. How warm do you prefer
>> your home to be?
>
> right now I'm wearing two fleece jackets, fleece pants and fleece
> socks just so I can keep my thermostat at 65
>
> How well insulated is your home?
> It's a 50 year old home that I bought last year. the Windows are 50
> years old and although there are no real breezes coming through I
> thinnk their full insulative properties went bye bye long ago.
Single pane windows never had much insulative properties. Seal any air
leaks you feel, whether with caulk or tape. If you don't need
transparency on a window consider a layer of bubble wrap. Otherwist
heatshrink. If you have money, storm windows.
And do what freeisbest has suggested.
If you have no insulation in the walls, put some in. Blown in
cellulose is cheap and very effective.
Now consider where all your heat is going out. It's going out big
time in any drafts. It's going out through your windows. It's going out
through your walls. It's going out through the ceiling and also through
the floor. Anywhere that the other side is colder than the inside heat
is travelling to.
A layer of bubble wrap or heatshrink (if you need transparency) will
cut the heat loss through your windows in half.
Blowing in cellulose in your walls will cut heat loss by 80% over
uninsulated walls. You'll need to drill 1" holes between every stud,
details are here:
<URL: http://www.cocooninsulation.com//>
Two people can insulate the walls in a house in two days.
You can not make an uninsulated house comfortable adding heat. Trust
me on that!
I live in a house built in 1920 with additions in 70's. Even in the
70's wall insulation was not used. I remember standing *over* my gas
floor heater and shivering. Now that I've insulated the walls and
insulated the windows I heat that same room with a electric radiator and
it is much more comfortable. One fifth the heat, five times the comfort
level.
BTW, radiant type heaters will work better in drafty rooms than
forced air. The heat from the forced air leaves with the drafts.
I've
> somewhat eliminated all the breezes coming from outlets and doors but
> the outside walls are still too cold to the touch for warm air to
> stick around too long. That combined with the cold windows seem to cut
> down on the residual heat circulation.
>
> How's the air
>> circulation?
>
> Not great. The upstairs is consistently colder than the downstairs by
> 2-3 degrees, that's why I'm thinking a space heater upstairs (2 rooms)
> would save me money because I wouldn't have to heat up the whole
> downstairs to stay warm at night.
> The best way to find out is to try it. The cost of a couple
>> of good oil-filled space heaters is a lot less than $400, so give it a
>> try and see how it works out for you.
>
> $200? I've notices there are some well rated models in the $40-$70
> rannge. Should I stay away from going so cheap?
My $35 Delonghi (from Lowes) work well and appear to be well rated.
My Soleous from Frys has had to have it's thermostat replaced.
Jeff
>
== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 7:57 am
From: Joe
On Dec 21, 10:30 am, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:
> I live in a house built in 1920 with additions in 70's. Even in the
> 70's wall insulation was not used. I remember standing *over* my gas
> floor heater and shivering. Now that I've insulated the walls and
> insulated the windows I heat that same room with a electric radiator and
> it is much more comfortable. One fifth the heat, five times the comfort
> level.
>
How can I tell by touch that my walls need more insulation? I thought
last year that my walls suffered from inadequate insulation but then I
felt the walls of my front hallway which are definitely not insulated
and they were freezing. My inside walls were just cold. But I've felt
the walls of newer houses and they were cold too, not as cold as mine
but still cold to the touch. I did some cursory research on blown in
insulation last year and I remember reading that it is only
recommended for use in uninsulated walls. Is that true?
== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 8:15 am
From: Jeff
Joe wrote:
> On Dec 21, 10:30 am, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:
>
>> I live in a house built in 1920 with additions in 70's. Even in the
>> 70's wall insulation was not used. I remember standing *over* my gas
>> floor heater and shivering. Now that I've insulated the walls and
>> insulated the windows I heat that same room with a electric radiator and
>> it is much more comfortable. One fifth the heat, five times the comfort
>> level.
>>
>
> How can I tell by touch that my walls need more insulation?
Chances are that you do not have any kind of blown in insulation in
the walls. That didn't exist 50 years ago. Hence no settling. You may
have settled insulation in the attic though. Blowing in insulation in
the attic is very easy.
You may have fiberglass batts, in which case you do nothing, or you
may have nothing.
Look in your walls. Take out an outlet box if need be and see what is
in there. It's hard to tell by touch, even with an IR thermometer it is
not always obvious what is uninsulated.
50 years ago adding a layer of fiberboard underneath the siding was
considered insulating your walls, trust me on this, it is not.
I thought
> last year that my walls suffered from inadequate insulation but then I
> felt the walls of my front hallway which are definitely not insulated
> and they were freezing. My inside walls were just cold. But I've felt
> the walls of newer houses and they were cold too, not as cold as mine
> but still cold to the touch.
Don't go by touch.
Jeff
I did some cursory research on blown in
> insulation last year and I remember reading that it is only
> recommended for use in uninsulated walls. Is that true?
== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 10:06 am
From: "Rod Speed"
Joe <joe5345@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 21, 6:32 am, Shawn Hirn <s...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Impossible to say. Each person's house is unique. How warm do you
>> prefer your home to be?
>
> right now I'm wearing two fleece jackets, fleece pants and fleece
> socks just so I can keep my thermostat at 65
>
> How well insulated is your home?
> It's a 50 year old home that I bought last year. the Windows are 50
> years old and although there are no real breezes coming through I
> thinnk their full insulative properties went bye bye long ago. I've
> somewhat eliminated all the breezes coming from outlets and doors but
> the outside walls are still too cold to the touch for warm air to
> stick around too long. That combined with the cold windows seem to cut
> down on the residual heat circulation.
>> How's the air circulation?
> Not great. The upstairs is consistently colder than the downstairs by
> 2-3 degrees, that's why I'm thinking a space heater upstairs (2 rooms)
> would save me money because I wouldn't have to heat up the whole
> downstairs to stay warm at night.
Makes a lot more sense to do the bed better for that.
> The best way to find out is to try it. The cost of a couple
>> of good oil-filled space heaters is a lot less than $400,
>> so give it a try and see how it works out for you.
> $200? I've notices there are some well rated models in the
> $40-$70 rannge. Should I stay away from going so cheap?
Makes a lot more sense to heat the bed with an electric pad etc.
== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 10:11 am
From: Joe
On Dec 21, 1:06 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Joe <joe5...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Dec 21, 6:32 am, Shawn Hirn <s...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >> Impossible to say. Each person's house is unique. How warm do you
> >> prefer your home to be?
>
> > right now I'm wearing two fleece jackets, fleece pants and fleece
> > socks just so I can keep my thermostat at 65
>
> > How well insulated is your home?
> > It's a 50 year old home that I bought last year. the Windows are 50
> > years old and although there are no real breezes coming through I
> > thinnk their full insulative properties went bye bye long ago. I've
> > somewhat eliminated all the breezes coming from outlets and doors but
> > the outside walls are still too cold to the touch for warm air to
> > stick around too long. That combined with the cold windows seem to cut
> > down on the residual heat circulation.
> >> How's the air circulation?
> > Not great. The upstairs is consistently colder than the downstairs by
> > 2-3 degrees, that's why I'm thinking a space heater upstairs (2 rooms)
> > would save me money because I wouldn't have to heat up the whole
> > downstairs to stay warm at night.
>
> Makes a lot more sense to do the bed better for that.
>
> > The best way to find out is to try it. The cost of a couple
> >> of good oil-filled space heaters is a lot less than $400,
> >> so give it a try and see how it works out for you.
> > $200? I've notices there are some well rated models in the
> > $40-$70 rannge. Should I stay away from going so cheap?
>
> Makes a lot more sense to heat the bed with an electric pad etc.
Yeah well, I have a couple of children that have a penchant for
knocking their covers off in the middle of the night so I have to keep
the heat in the low sixties in case.
== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 10:47 am
From: "Rod Speed"
Joe <joe5345@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 21, 1:06 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Joe <joe5...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Dec 21, 6:32 am, Shawn Hirn <s...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> Impossible to say. Each person's house is unique. How warm do you
>>>> prefer your home to be?
>>
>>> right now I'm wearing two fleece jackets, fleece pants and fleece
>>> socks just so I can keep my thermostat at 65
>>
>>> How well insulated is your home?
>>> It's a 50 year old home that I bought last year. the Windows are 50
>>> years old and although there are no real breezes coming through I
>>> thinnk their full insulative properties went bye bye long ago. I've
>>> somewhat eliminated all the breezes coming from outlets and doors
>>> but the outside walls are still too cold to the touch for warm air
>>> to stick around too long. That combined with the cold windows seem
>>> to cut down on the residual heat circulation.
>>>> How's the air circulation?
>>> Not great. The upstairs is consistently colder than the downstairs
>>> by 2-3 degrees, that's why I'm thinking a space heater upstairs (2
>>> rooms) would save me money because I wouldn't have to heat up the
>>> whole downstairs to stay warm at night.
>>
>> Makes a lot more sense to do the bed better for that.
>>
>>> The best way to find out is to try it. The cost of a couple
>>>> of good oil-filled space heaters is a lot less than $400,
>>>> so give it a try and see how it works out for you.
>>> $200? I've notices there are some well rated models in the
>>> $40-$70 rannge. Should I stay away from going so cheap?
>>
>> Makes a lot more sense to heat the bed with an electric pad etc.
>
> Yeah well, I have a couple of children that have a penchant for
> knocking their covers off in the middle of the night so I have to keep
> the heat in the low sixties in case.
Just do the covers better so that doesnt happen.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Debit card article in Reader's Digest
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/30646f032f4ff9e6?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 7:03 am
From: George Grapman
Scott in SoCal wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 20:54:22 GMT, George Grapman
> <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote:
>
>> Before opening my account I checked the rules on how my credit union
>> dealt with those issues.
>
> Rules which can (and often do) change at any time without notice.
>
> I hope you're keeping current with the little disclosure pamplets that
> they include with your statement every month. :)
My credit union spells everything out in clear, east to read type.
== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 7:06 am
From: George Grapman
Scott in SoCal wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 18:43:31 -0800, George Grapman
> <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote:
>
>> Wonder if you also think it is abnormal to check my stocks a few times
>> a day.
>
> It is unless you're some kind of day-trader. Some of us invest for the
> long term, and don't need to look more than once a day.
>
> Schwab sends me a closing summary via email every day, and some days I
> don't even look at it.
I generally invest for the long term but one time I checked during
mid-day and saw an unusual drop on one stock. Further checking revealed
a major lawsuit. I sold and the stock continued to plummet. I lost money
but not as much as if I had waited until the end of the day.
== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 7:41 am
From: Scott in SoCal
On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:06:15 GMT, George Grapman
<sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote:
>Scott in SoCal wrote:
>> On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 18:43:31 -0800, George Grapman
>> <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Wonder if you also think it is abnormal to check my stocks a few times
>>> a day.
>>
>> It is unless you're some kind of day-trader. Some of us invest for the
>> long term, and don't need to look more than once a day.
>>
>> Schwab sends me a closing summary via email every day, and some days I
>> don't even look at it.
>
> I generally invest for the long term but one time I checked during
>mid-day and saw an unusual drop on one stock. Further checking revealed
>a major lawsuit. I sold and the stock continued to plummet. I lost money
>but not as much as if I had waited until the end of the day.
A stop-loss order would have saved you even more and you still
wouldn't have had to look at your stock prices more than once a day.
== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 8:13 am
From: email.is.ignored@gmail.com
On Dec 19, 2:31 pm, George Grapman <sfgeo...@paccbell.net> wrote:
> As I have already noted the one time I disputed adebitcard charge
> the funds were back in my account the next day. I can not address the
> policies of other financial institutions.
That's good that the bank did that, but the bank will not refund other
fees from the external companies from the bounced transactions. For
example, if you pay for your credit card and the transaction bounced,
the CC company will assess a bounced check fee. In addition, the
timing of the bounce may mean you don't make your payment in time,
thus incurring late fees and maybe finance charges. The same goes for
your mortgage payment, phone bill, etc. You may be able to contact
those companies and have the fees reversed, but that would be a hassle
to contact each individual company. Getting the money returned to
your bank account may just be the first step.
None of those negative situations happen with lost credit card. And a
lost PIN-only debit card will likely not be able to drain your
checking account.
A lot of the discussion in this thread is about debit vs. credit
cards, but the real discussion should be about credit-enabled debit
cards. Your financial risk from a credit-enabled debit card is so
much greater than a normal ATM card. So if debit cards are the right
choice for you, by all means continue using them, just contact your
bank and get a debit card which *always* requires PIN entry.
== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 8:50 am
From: SMS 斯蒂文* 夏
Shawn Hirn wrote:
> In article
> <e4e6c3e5-2b89-42c6-b1dd-854dc27f5cc1@c4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> "rick++" <rick303@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The RD article is deceptive.
>> All the their debit cards I've been given have the same
>> protections as their credit card according the bank policy.
>> They are combo ATM-Debit Cards, which may be the reason.
>
> Right. I have two debit cards and the maximum exposure for me is $50 if
> either is lost or stolen. Still, I only use them for purchases at
> businesses I trust and have a long history of dealing with.
Right, this is actually federal protection, $50 if reported within two
days, much worse than credit card protection. Plus you lose all the
protections in the Fair Credit Billing Act, which the bank or credit
union can choose to offer (or at least claim that they offer), but they
have no legal requirement to duplicate these protections. Of course you
lose all the other benefits of paying with a credit card, versus cash,
check, or debit card, as well.
== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 8:52 am
From: SMS 斯蒂文* 夏
email.is.ignored@gmail.com wrote:
> A lot of the discussion in this thread is about debit vs. credit
> cards, but the real discussion should be about credit-enabled debit
> cards. Your financial risk from a credit-enabled debit card is so
> much greater than a normal ATM card. So if debit cards are the right
> choice for you, by all means continue using them, just contact your
> bank and get a debit card which *always* requires PIN entry.
That really is the key point. Readers Digest should have distinguished
between a PIN based ATM card, and debit card that can be used like a
credit card with only a signature (or no signature in many cases). You
want to avoid the latter at all costs, but the pin-based ATM card is
pretty safe.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: RodSpeed, do you think major inflation is imminent globally?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/07987411c86cacd3?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 7:55 am
From: Quality_is_job_one
Trying to determine what is best to invest in. If inflation rampages,
then bonds will be useless. What is worth buying? Metals and
commodities? I am thinking real estate will sell off and sell off
drastically in the upcoming years. The question is, how do you get a
good cash flow from real estate? At this point, I am thinking the
global mantra will be all about cash flow and making payments on time
and keeping creditors from taking away assets for pennies on the
dollars. Thing is, I swear I think we have over capacity here in the
USA. Anything we want or need is obtainable rather easily if you think
about it. Whether you can hold on to it or find some one willing to
pay you more money for what you bought, well that is another question.
== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 8:08 am
From: Just A User
Quality_is_job_one wrote:
> Trying to determine what is best to invest in. If inflation rampages,
> then bonds will be useless. What is worth buying? Metals and
> commodities? I am thinking real estate will sell off and sell off
> drastically in the upcoming years. The question is, how do you get a
> good cash flow from real estate? At this point, I am thinking the
> global mantra will be all about cash flow and making payments on time
> and keeping creditors from taking away assets for pennies on the
> dollars. Thing is, I swear I think we have over capacity here in the
> USA. Anything we want or need is obtainable rather easily if you think
> about it. Whether you can hold on to it or find some one willing to
> pay you more money for what you bought, well that is another question.
I HOPE you are not seeking serious financial advise from someone in a
usenet news group. And if you do take advise from someone, I hope that
it is backed up by a professional opinion and not just based on what
R.S. recommends.
== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 8:32 am
From: clams casino
Just A User wrote:
> Quality_is_job_one wrote:
>
>> Trying to determine what is best to invest in. If inflation rampages,
>> then bonds will be useless. What is worth buying? Metals and
>> commodities? I am thinking real estate will sell off and sell off
>> drastically in the upcoming years. The question is, how do you get a
>> good cash flow from real estate? At this point, I am thinking the
>> global mantra will be all about cash flow and making payments on time
>> and keeping creditors from taking away assets for pennies on the
>> dollars. Thing is, I swear I think we have over capacity here in the
>> USA. Anything we want or need is obtainable rather easily if you think
>> about it. Whether you can hold on to it or find some one willing to
>> pay you more money for what you bought, well that is another question.
>
>
> I HOPE you are not seeking serious financial advise from someone in a
> usenet news group. And if you do take advise from someone, I hope that
> it is backed up by a professional opinion and not just based on what
> R.S. recommends.
but Rod Speed is the ultimate reverse advisor. He's most always on the
wrong side of every issue (98.73%).
== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 10:02 am
From: "Rod Speed"
Depends on how you define major, but no, not
unless you have a very unusual definition of major.
Quality_is_job_one <kwokx2@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Trying to determine what is best to invest in. If inflation rampages,
That isnt going to happen.
> then bonds will be useless. What is worth buying? Metals and commodities?
Nope, having your money where inflation isnt rampaging.
Thats what those in places like South America and Zimbabwe
do. They're the only ones that see rampaging inflation anymore.
> I am thinking real estate will sell off and sell off drastically in the upcoming years.
I dont believe that in the modern first world except in citys that
end up ghost towns because their single industry evaporates.
> The question is, how do you get a good cash flow from real estate?
Usual way, decide which areas are going to benefit from what you think will happen
in the future. Real estate isnt anything like as flexible as most other areas tho.
> At this point, I am thinking the global mantra will be all
> about cash flow and making payments on time and keeping
> creditors from taking away assets for pennies on the dollars.
Just avoid those industrys that can get into that situation.
> Thing is, I swear I think we have over capacity here in the USA.
Only in houses. Yes, due to the sub prime fiasco that will be true for a while.
> Anything we want or need is obtainable rather easily if you think about it.
Some things arent like the entire populace eating sensibly.
> Whether you can hold on to it or find some one willing to pay you
> more money for what you bought, well that is another question.
Corse you always can, even in a recession. Its just harder then.
== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 10:44 am
From: "** Frank **"
"Quality_is_job_one" <kwokx2@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:23a4ac4b-c5f4-4725-bb31-b53972680566@b1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
> Trying to determine what is best to invest in. If inflation rampages,
> then bonds will be useless. What is worth buying? Metals and
> commodities? I am thinking real estate will sell off and sell off
> drastically in the upcoming years. The question is, how do you get a
> good cash flow from real estate? At this point, I am thinking the
> global mantra will be all about cash flow and making payments on time
> and keeping creditors from taking away assets for pennies on the
> dollars. Thing is, I swear I think we have over capacity here in the
> USA. Anything we want or need is obtainable rather easily if you think
> about it. Whether you can hold on to it or find some one willing to
> pay you more money for what you bought, well that is another question.
The best to invest in is dumb luck - only if I know how to do that
consistently. Dumb luck getting AAPL at $17, sold some today at $192. I
guess that makes up for WorldCom and some of the $100 high tech stocks I got
into during 1999-2000 and riding it down to penny stocks. Everything so
clear looking backwards.
I'm overweight in real estate and I'm getting out of it, not because its in
a down market, but I'm too tired doing the three "T" thing - tenants,
toilets and trash. Been through a few cycles before, and it looks like a
good real estate buying opportunity between now and the next couple of years
for the long term. I think you could double your money in about four years
if you buy right, i.e., 50% foreclosure discount. Cash flow should be good
as the rental market has gone up.
CNBC has been talking about China, Russia and India - Brazil is doing pretty
good too. But I feel more comfortable with US companies with foreign
components.
2008 would be another crazy and volatile year, best of luck to you.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: web capable phones
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/848900c8eb438654?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 7:57 am
From: Jeff
Shawn Hirn wrote:
> In article <13mlt9eausu6388@corp.supernews.com>,
> Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:
>
>> I'll be changing my cellphone service sometime in the near future.
>> I've switched jobs and will not be travelling, so I'm thinking of Metro
>> PCS (not a great service but cheap).
>>
>> I'm thinking of getting a phone with some web capability. Here is
>> their list:
>>
>> <URL: http://www.metropcs.com/phones/ />
>>
>> Anyone have any experience with any of these?
>>
>> Jeff
>
> What's your budget?
The budget is not much.
Where do you intend to use the phone most? Why do
> you need a web enabled cell phone? Have you considered A&T and an
> iPhone, or a Blackberry from Verizon or Cingular?
Those are out of my reach. It's the cost of the repetitive service
more that the cost of the phone.
I don't need great web phone capability. But if it lousy than I will
do without. I know what an iphone looks like, I know what a blackberry
looks like. I do not know what any of these second or third tier phones
do on a second tier system.
I'm more or less unemployed since two days ago and do not want to
spend $100+/month. You may love your AT&T iphone, I can not afford it
now. I need about 1800 minutes/month, with most of the services you
mention that is $100 without web access. At metro pcs that is $45 for
unlimited, that is good enough for me now and if the web phone is not a
joke then I will spend the extra money *once* for the phone, else I will
buy a cheaper phone.
Jeff
Jeff
==============================================================================
TOPIC: RodSpeed, how is gold doing in your neck of the woods?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f2ad60336cac92ae?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 8:06 am
From: Quality_is_job_one
On Dec 20, 3:44 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Quality_is_job_one <kwo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >http://www.lvrj.com/news/9893062.html
>
> Nothing special.
I find it interesting that gold is treated so bi-polarly. I think it
useless save industrial/technical applications but people around the
world have been drawn to it because of its luster and symbolism. I
think we should all start collecting copper. Not as valuable per ounce
as gold, but has a huge market for a lot of folks and used in
electrical and plumbing and cookware.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 10:15 am
From: "Rod Speed"
Quality_is_job_one <kwokx2@hotmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>> Quality_is_job_one <kwo...@hotmail.com> wrote
>>> http://www.lvrj.com/news/9893062.html
>> Nothing special.
> I find it interesting that gold is treated so bi-polarly.
Only by a tiny minority. Anyone who understands
the basics just treats it like any other commodity that
sometimes has some advantages and often doesnt.
> I think it useless save industrial/technical applications but people around
> the world have been drawn to it because of its luster and symbolism.
Its not that so much as it has real advantages when the political system
is so completely off the rails that the currency is a complete dud.
Its also much more portable if you are a refugee on a small boat
leaving SE Asia etc from a country where you cant use the usual
ways of moving your savings out of that country as you leave etc.
> I think we should all start collecting copper.
Its never worth collecting any commodity now. People like us are
in a situation were we dont need to collect any commodity anymore.
> Not as valuable per ounce as gold, but has a huge market for
> a lot of folks and used in electrical and plumbing and cookware.
Thats not what determines the value of any commodity.
Its always the supply/demand that matters.
The world economy aint gunna collapse, you watch.
The US economy isnt going to either.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: More Selective reporting from Limbaugh
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/306db91f018962b9?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 9:18 am
From: George Grapman
Opens the show by talking about the increase in consumer spending.
Omits these details:
Consumer confidence at its lowest in three years (when it goes up
Limbaugh boasts about while ignoring the general downward trend, when it
drops he ignores it).
Retail sales dropped for the third straight week.
Inflation exceeds the Feds "comfort level" for inflation.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Exploding television...
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/354f162529b27d4f?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 21 2007 10:16 am
From: "Rod Speed"
PaPaPeng <PaPaPeng@yahoo.com> wrote
<reams of your desperate attempts at puerile racist shit that
any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where they belong>
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