Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 17 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Renting VS Buying Homes
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/37be5c6af5aee907?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 6 2007 3:51 pm
From: clams casino

Dennis wrote:

>On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 16:36:49 -0500, clams casino
><PeterGriffin@drunkin-clam.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Suppose I own a condo, but do not quite have enough deductions to exceed
>>the standard deduction. I'm paying the full price of interest,
>>property taxes & maintenance.
>>
>>
>
>No. Your standard deduction includes an allowance for common
>expenses, such as mortgage interest and property taxes. How much is
>determined by the IRS.
>
>
>

OK - I'll try to simplify it for you.- If I have $10k in deductions,
in 2007, I can deduct $10,700 (std deduction). If I have $1k
deductions, I still get $10,700 in deductions. If I have $12,000 in
deductions, I only gain $1300 in deductions vs. having $1k.

For the record, the IRS does not determine your deductions. You must
do that.

>>Second example - I rent from Joe. He has three condos & thus has more
>>than enough to itemize, realizing a good 35% discount on interest,
>>property taxes & maintenance. Granted Joe will have to pay 35% taxes on
>>his gain, but his net cost will still be lower than mine. Meanwhile,
>>I'm enjoying a full standard deduction.
>>
>>
>
>And paying your portion of Joe's interest, property taxes and
>maintenance through your rent.
>
>
>

What is that suppose to mean? Are there cookies in the library?
How does my indirectly paying a portion of taxes, interest and
maintenance have anything to do with his net costs being lower than mine?

Hint - the interest, property taxes & maintenance will be paid in full
by both of us. The difference is that he will get a subsidy to lower
his costs where the difference is profit for the landlord. at the
expense of other tax payers.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 6 2007 4:31 pm
From: Dennis

On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 18:51:16 -0500, clams casino
<PeterGriffin@drunkin-clam.com> wrote:

>Dennis wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 16:36:49 -0500, clams casino
>><PeterGriffin@drunkin-clam.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Suppose I own a condo, but do not quite have enough deductions to exceed
>>>the standard deduction. I'm paying the full price of interest,
>>>property taxes & maintenance.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>No. Your standard deduction includes an allowance for common
>>expenses, such as mortgage interest and property taxes. How much is
>>determined by the IRS.
>>
>>
>>
>
>OK - I'll try to simplify it for you.- If I have $10k in deductions,
>in 2007, I can deduct $10,700 (std deduction). If I have $1k
>deductions, I still get $10,700 in deductions. If I have $12,000 in
>deductions, I only gain $1300 in deductions vs. having $1k.

Sure, the IRS has simplified the process for piddling amounts. So the
little guy with $1K gets a slightly better deal than the guy with
$10K. Mice nuts in the grand scheme of things (from the IRS' point of
view).

>For the record, the IRS does not determine your deductions. You must
>do that.

The IRS determines what the standard deduction is. Many factors go
into it's determination.

>
>>>Second example - I rent from Joe. He has three condos & thus has more
>>>than enough to itemize, realizing a good 35% discount on interest,
>>>property taxes & maintenance. Granted Joe will have to pay 35% taxes on
>>>his gain, but his net cost will still be lower than mine. Meanwhile,
>>>I'm enjoying a full standard deduction.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>And paying your portion of Joe's interest, property taxes and
>>maintenance through your rent.
>>
>>
>>
>
>What is that suppose to mean? Are there cookies in the library?
>How does my indirectly paying a portion of taxes, interest and
>maintenance have anything to do with his net costs being lower than mine?
>
>Hint - the interest, property taxes & maintenance will be paid in full
>by both of us. The difference is that he will get a subsidy to lower
>his costs where the difference is profit for the landlord. at the
>expense of other tax payers.

Hint -- you are living on the property and thus gaining direct benefit
from whatever you pay. To Joe it is a business, so he gets to
subtract his expenses, just like any other business.

Dennis (evil)
--
An inherent weakness of a pure democracy is that half
the voters are below average intelligence.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Reverse Hiring Bonus: Legal?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/01bee59f170fec8b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 6 2007 3:43 pm
From: George Grapman

AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
> "Shawn Hirn" <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:srhi-A0D856.21531405122007@newsgroups.comcast.net...
>> In article <t2z5j.6197$3W.3606@trndny04>,
>> "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> "Shawn Hirn" <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>> news:srhi-4B6395.22011404122007@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
>>>> In article
>>> snip
>>>
>>>> I understand that you are desparate for a job, but I doubt this idea
>>>> would pan out. Hiring someone is a major commitment. I seriously doubt
>>>> $300 would make all that big a difference to a company who could afford
>>>> to hire you. What might be better is to offer to work for free for a
>>>> week at a place where they might be tempted to hire you, but aren't
>>>> ready to make the commitment. Another option to consider is to move to
>>>> an area where jobs are available.
>>> i'm not sure it's legal to work for free (off the clock), even
>>> voluntarily,
>>> at a regular type company.
>> Why? If we are referring to the United States, its a free country. If
>
> if you're happy and you know it, clank your chains.
>
>> you are willing to work for free, I don't know of any area where that
>> would be illegal. If you do have an example where volunteering to work
>> is illegal, please provide the details.
>
> i'd think state and federal minimum wage laws would apply unless it's a
> non-profit. call up your state people and ask.
>
>
Imagine the potential abuse if this were not the case. A company
could tell Mr.A that he can have a job if Mrs.A agrees to perform as a
volunteer.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 6 2007 4:22 pm
From: "Don K"

"George Grapman" <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote in message
news:AO%5j.5952$4q5.1255@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
> AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
>> "Shawn Hirn" <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:srhi-A0D856.21531405122007@newsgroups.comcast.net...
>>> In article <t2z5j.6197$3W.3606@trndny04>,
>>> "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Shawn Hirn" <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:srhi-4B6395.22011404122007@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
>>>>> In article
>>>> snip
>>>>
>>>>> I understand that you are desparate for a job, but I doubt this idea
>>>>> would pan out. Hiring someone is a major commitment. I seriously doubt
>>>>> $300 would make all that big a difference to a company who could afford
>>>>> to hire you. What might be better is to offer to work for free for a
>>>>> week at a place where they might be tempted to hire you, but aren't
>>>>> ready to make the commitment. Another option to consider is to move to
>>>>> an area where jobs are available.
>>>> i'm not sure it's legal to work for free (off the clock), even voluntarily,
>>>> at a regular type company.
>>> Why? If we are referring to the United States, its a free country. If
>>
>> if you're happy and you know it, clank your chains.
>>
>>> you are willing to work for free, I don't know of any area where that
>>> would be illegal. If you do have an example where volunteering to work
>>> is illegal, please provide the details.
>>
>> i'd think state and federal minimum wage laws would apply unless it's a non-profit.
>> call up your state people and ask.

Ok, here's a credible reference that says it would not illegal to agree
to work for free. It does, however, say that the worker cannot give
up the right to claim the minimum wage, but he does not have to
claim it if he doesn't want to.

"You have the right to be paid minimum wage for every hour you work,
even if you tell your employer that you will work for less (or even nothing).
In other words, you cannot give up ("waive") your right to minimum wage
no matter what you say or do. If you agreed to perform work for less,
you still can file a claim to recover up to minimum wage. "

http://www.las-elc.org/MinimumWage.pdf

So if the new guy doesn't work out, the employer does run a risk that
he would go back on his word, and file for minimum wage
compensation anyway.

Personally I think it would be a good bet that the applicant would live
up to his word and not file.

Don

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 6 2007 8:25 pm
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <4SJ5j.29023$lD6.27995@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>,
George Grapman <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote:

> Shawn Hirn wrote:
> > In article <RQF5j.30598$Pv2.25553@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net>,
> > George Grapman <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote:
> >
> >> pepita@prodigy.net wrote:
> >>> On Dec 5, 10:00 am, "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <der...@hotmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> i'm not sure it's legal to work for free (off the clock), even
> >>>> voluntarily,
> >>>> at a regular type company.
> >>> Sure there is, it is called an Internship.
> >>
> >> And,by law, an intern can not be performing work that would normally
> >> be done by a paid employee.In addition the work must be of educational
> >> value to the intern.
> >
> > Please cite that law.
>
>
>
> http://career.uhh.hawaii.edu/DOLUnpaidInternshipGuidelines.php
>
>
>
>
> Pursuant to this law, the U.S. Department of Labor (DOL) has developed
> six criteria for differentiating between an employee entitled to minimum
> wage or above and a learner/trainee who may be unpaid. The criteria for
> learner/trainee are:
>
> 1. The training, even though it includes actual operations of the
> facilities of the employers, is similar to that which would be given in
> a vocational school.
> 2. The training is for the benefit of the student.
> 3. The student does not displace a regular employee, but works under
> the close observation of a regular employee or supervisor.
> 4. The employer provides the training and derives no immediate
> advantage from the activities of the student; and on occasion, the
> operations may actually be impeded by the training.
> 5. The student is not necessarily entitled to a job at the
> conclusion of the training period.
> 6. The employer and the student understand that the student is not
> entitled to wages for the time spent training.

So where's the conflict here? The OP could simply offer his services as
a trainee with a condition that fits options 5 and 6, then if the
employer and the OP hit it off, the employer has the option of hiring
the OP and perhaps paying back pay for the time already worked.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: I will pay u 2 $ to join ,HOW See below
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f57b0d8cc0ba3c1d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 6 2007 4:49 pm
From: jenniferavailable

I will pay u 2 $ to join .
HOW See below
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http://www.getdiamondshyip.com/?ref=10
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Coinstar Warning
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0a78df299577cc2f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 6 2007 5:26 pm
From: krw

In article <jdqdnVlZdoqo38XanZ2dnUVZ_jmdnZ2d@comcast.com>,
bobnospam@gmail.com says...
>
> "krw" <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote in message
> news:MPG.21ba6a2d230bf3f98aae4@news.individual.net...
> > In article <726600a4-9c67-474e-a601-94f3d6bd58e0
> > @d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, gwehrenb@bellsouth.net says...
> >> On Nov 26, 11:21 am, je...@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) wrote:
> >>
> >> > I no longer have any coins in the car's coin tray
> >> > since nearly all toll roads in NY/NJ/CT/PA/MD/VA
> >> > take E-Z Pass, but I use coins (particularly dollar coins)
> >> > when buying train tickets from the vending machines
> >> > and I need quarters for the laundromat.
> >>
> >> We keep about 15 dollars in silver in the car for parking meters in
> >> cities we're visiting, laundry while on trips, and the occasional
> >> toll my EZpass doesn't handle.
> >>
> > Better make sure it's not in sight. Windows cost a *lot* more than
> > $15, particularly the side ones.
>
> Isn't that why they put those nice little trays/drawers into the dashboard?

Which little trays/drawers? Some have change holders on the console,
in plain view.

--
Keith

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 6 2007 6:19 pm
From: aemeijers

krw wrote:
> In article <jdqdnVlZdoqo38XanZ2dnUVZ_jmdnZ2d@comcast.com>,
> bobnospam@gmail.com says...
>> "krw" <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote in message
>> news:MPG.21ba6a2d230bf3f98aae4@news.individual.net...
>>> In article <726600a4-9c67-474e-a601-94f3d6bd58e0
>>> @d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, gwehrenb@bellsouth.net says...
>>>> On Nov 26, 11:21 am, je...@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I no longer have any coins in the car's coin tray
>>>>> since nearly all toll roads in NY/NJ/CT/PA/MD/VA
>>>>> take E-Z Pass, but I use coins (particularly dollar coins)
>>>>> when buying train tickets from the vending machines
>>>>> and I need quarters for the laundromat.
>>>> We keep about 15 dollars in silver in the car for parking meters in
>>>> cities we're visiting, laundry while on trips, and the occasional
>>>> toll my EZpass doesn't handle.
>>>>
>>> Better make sure it's not in sight. Windows cost a *lot* more than
>>> $15, particularly the side ones.
>> Isn't that why they put those nice little trays/drawers into the dashboard?
>
> Which little trays/drawers? Some have change holders on the console,
> in plain view.
>
My 99 Honda has a cute little change drawer above driver's left knee.
Didn't notice till I'd had the car for a year. Can't say I've ever
actually used it.

(Gets curious and goes and looks...)

Nope, there is a pack of fuses in there. Not sure why I would have done
that- car has never blown any that I recall. Maybe from when I added the
second power point or something.

aem sends...

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 6 2007 6:37 pm
From: "pepita@prodigy.net"

On Dec 2, 12:26 am, Bill <billru...@prodigy.net> wrote:
> The Real Bev wrote:
>
> > The Coinstar machines here have NEVER not charged a fee.
>
> Real Coinstar machines that do not charge a fee when just
> converting coins to bills? I've never heard of that. How do they
> make their money?
>
> Bill

The one at my local grocery store has gift certificate options, with
no fee for counting the coins. You can get a gift certificate for
Amazon.com, Itunes or JCPenney, and perhaps other places as well.
Last time I looked at the coinstar website (www.coinstar.com) there
was a list of which machines offer this option (not all do).

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Happy Saint Nick's Day, everyone! (Dec. 6)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f7e81f21d8a696b6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 6 2007 6:19 pm
From: "OhioGuy"

I had so many things going on today that I almost forgot to get on here
and wish everyone a Happy St. Nick's Day! For those who don't know, St.
Nicholas was a historic character who helped people in need. Santa Claus
was loosely based on him. My wife and I don't revere him or anything, we
just think of him as a nice guy who helped people.

My kids just got finished unwrapping their presents, candy and everything,
so now we have the commercial aspects of the season over with.

This is the way many cultures used to do it, (including the United States)
until commercial interests realized they could sell more if the "shopping
season" was extended from Thanksgiving to Christmas. Now it seems to
overshadow the entire original meaning of Christmas. I got sick of it, did
some research, and we decided to go back to having December 6 for gift
giving, just as our ancestors probably did. This way, St. Nick (Santa) has
his day on December 6, and Jesus has his 2 and a half weeks later, on the
25th.

My wife says that St. Nicholas came to her work place today, dressed in
traditional garb. Turns out that one of her co-workers is from Eastern
Europe, where they still exchange gifts on St. Nick's Day. One of her
friends dressed up and came in to visit, and evidently it made her day.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 6 2007 6:20 pm
From: "OhioGuy"

My kids just got finished unwrapping their presents, candy and everything,
so now we have the commercial aspects of the season over with.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 66 www.200836.com-Concepts: Green Olympics, High-tech Olympics and
People's Olympics
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/aecca24b2474017d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 6 2007 6:22 pm
From: allen23456

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Living without a credit card
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1543df3db7e868b6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 6 2007 6:45 pm
From: "Nicik Name"

"Neil Jones" <castellan2004-atnews@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:_aWdnVQwb7GKM8_anZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Hello,
>
> I have problem with credit cards. I flash them for gas, sometimes for
> lunch, groceries etc. They are the small ticket items but are
> accumulating on my balance. Now that I have accepted that I have a
> problem, I want to really wean out of this reliance on credit card.
> Please share with me if anyone in this forum had this problem and have
> successfully detached from the credit card. The balance is really
> stressing me out.
> Please keep yor credit card.........
The US economy revolves around the credit card
>
> Thank you in advance for any help.
>
> NJ
> ---------------------
> Random URL found on the Internet
> http://memoriter.net/flash/test.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Only 30k miles from tires?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a84bf58bf2c23f50?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 6 2007 6:52 pm
From: "Nicik Name"

"Logan Shaw" <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:474fc05e$0$8678$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Gordon wrote:
> > A trick to extending tire life on a front wheel drive car
> > is to not rotate the tires. On a front wheel drive car
> > the front tires take most of the wear. Go ahead and let
> > them wear. Then replace them. But keep the rear tires.
>
> I don't get how this extends the life of the tire. What you
> save in wear on the back, you'll lose in wear on the front.
>
> Also, the point of rotating tires is not just to make sure
> one tire gets as much wear as another tire; it's also to
> make sure that the entire surface of each tire gets worn
> as evenly as possible. Tires on the front may get more wear
> in one spot than tires on the back, and tires on the back
> may get more wear in some other spot than tires on the front.
> Rotating the tires ensures that each tire experiences a
> variety of wear patterns and hopefully wears more evenly.
>
> - Logan
eh....the last time I rotated tires on a car was 37 years ago.........

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What's the difference?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/df54fd76af90ced4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 6 2007 6:59 pm
From: "Nicik Name"

"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in message
news:474fa2a2$0$26032$b9f67a60@news.newsdemon.com...
> Can anyone tell what the difference is between being frugal and being
cheap?
Sure........
frugal= the poor
cheap= the wealthy

==============================================================================
TOPIC: prada high top sneakers www.discount-jordans.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/445ec57ebe3e0df1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 6 2007 7:51 pm
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: prada Cooler sneakers www.discount-jordans.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/39a36837953dde14?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 6 2007 7:53 pm
From: discount_jordans@yahoo.com.cn

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 6 2007 7:53 pm
From: discount_jordans@yahoo.com.cn

==============================================================================
TOPIC: prada Low plate snakers ( www.discount-jordans.com )
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2a09be00a67b9e31?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 6 2007 7:54 pm
From: discount_jordans@yahoo.com.cn

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TOPIC: an alternative to a grass lawn
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c65e57af89773af2?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 6 2007 8:04 pm
From: Anthony Matonak

A Veteran wrote:
> Sand dune sedge a native plant.
> Proven durable in texas , colorado and calif.
> tolerates various soil conditions .
> requires less water than a turf grass lawn.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xeriscaping
: Xeriscaping refers to landscaping in ways that do not require
: supplemental irrigation.

I've seen a lot of rock gardens in place of lawns in Texas
and some folks who just gave up completely and paved their
lawns over with concrete.

Anthony

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 6 2007 9:28 pm
From: A Veteran

In article <4758c5d2$0$2551$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Anthony Matonak <anthonym40@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote:

> A Veteran wrote:
> > Sand dune sedge a native plant.
> > Proven durable in texas , colorado and calif.
> > tolerates various soil conditions .
> > requires less water than a turf grass lawn.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xeriscaping
> : Xeriscaping refers to landscaping in ways that do not require
> : supplemental irrigation.
>
> I've seen a lot of rock gardens in place of lawns in Texas
> and some folks who just gave up completely and paved their
> lawns over with concrete.
>
> Anthony

a garden is best. sell the lawn mower,

--
when you believe the only tool you have is a hammer.
All problems look like nails.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: australian UGG boots www.discount-jordans.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/213ee88f73f29985?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 6 2007 8:04 pm
From: discount_jordans@yahoo.com.cn

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sale of Super T90FOOTBALL SHOES
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a298902d0fceb067?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 6 2007 8:53 pm
From: jokey

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: .....********actress bathroom clip caught on cam by her manger******
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2b8b87d7d07e0dce?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 6 2007 10:53 pm
From: gura night

.....********actress bathroom clip caught on cam by her manger******
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Personal Loan Unsecured No Credit Check
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ec21f16444e5b353?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 6 2007 11:15 pm
From: "L.BaBaLa"

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Thursday, December 6, 2007

25 new messages in 17 topics - digest

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