Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 9 topics

Wednesday, March 12, 2008

25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Using laptop as full time "desktop"?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9a2018c122b61360?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 1:04 pm
From: me@privacy.net

"rick++" <rick303@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Another issue is ergnomoic.
>Some people have neck problems and arm numbness
>from looking down all the time.
>Some laptops have video ports to drive regular monitors
>when you are at a desk.

I will be using STAND up desk for all my computing
soon. Setting down is bad for you

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 1:17 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

me@privacy.net wrote:
> rick++ <rick303@hotmail.com> wrote

>> Another issue is ergnomoic.
>> Some people have neck problems and arm numbness from looking down all the time.
>> Some laptops have video ports to drive regular monitors when you are at a desk.

> I will be using STAND up desk for all my computing soon.

Fark.

> Setting down is bad for you

So is standing up all the time.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 1:28 pm
From: me@privacy.net

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>> I will be using STAND up desk for all my computing soon.
>
>Fark.
>
>> Setting down is bad for you
>
>So is standing up all the time.

Well if I do set down it will be in a front room chair!

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 1:44 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

me@privacy.net wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> me@privacy.net wrote

>>> I will be using STAND up desk for all my computing soon.

>> Fark.

>>> Setting down is bad for you

>> So is standing up all the time.

> Ha

I was serious. It can be a problem for those who have to stand for their work etc.

> Well if I do set down it will be in a front room chair!

I compute from mine, dont use a normal desk etc.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 3:24 pm
From: Warren Block

John Weiss <jrweiss98155NOSPAM@NOSPAM.comcast.net> wrote:
><me@privacy.net> wrote...
>>
>> Some questions abt using a laptop in full time desktop
>> mode tho:
>>
>> 1. Can a laptop run on 110 vac without battery being
>> in unit? It's best not to "cook" the battery all day
>> long if the laptop is plugged in and used as a desktop
>> anyway, is it?
>
> Once the battery is charged, the power supply regulates the charge so it doesn't
> "cook" any more. Technology has evolved significantly in the past 10 years.

But the heat generated by the computer continues to degrade the battery.
After a year or so, people are often surprised that the battery they've
"never used" doesn't hold much of a charge any more.

> SOME laptops will run without a battery installed. However, that will severely
> limit your moving it around...

But if you're using it as a desktop, why move it?

>> Bottom line.... what habits are worthwhile to use a
>> laptop as a desktop" all day long without causing any
>> damage? and make it convenient as a desktop?
>
> Get a good laptop. A cheapo may not have sufficient cooling for long life and
> continuous use. Find one with a top-end mobile Core2Duo CPU, sufficient (1.5 -
> 2 GB) RAM, and discrete ATI or nVidia mobile graphics.

All of which have a sizable cost premium over desktop components.

Unless you really need the portability of a notebook, you're better off
with a desktop. Notebooks make many compromises to be portable, which
make them more fragile and more expensive than a desktop.

--
Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota * USA

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Is it fraud or thinking ahead?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e2dd240757c24097?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 1:05 pm
From: skarkada@gmail.com

Here is an article on the same subject. Apparently there is a business
that is helping in that effort.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/29/us/29walks.html?hp

== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 1:19 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
> John Weiss <jrweiss98155NOSPAM@NOSPAM.comcast.net> wrote
>> <hchickpea@hotmail.com> wrote
>
>>> You continued on to say they had an ARM that the bank was not
>>> willing to renegotiate, which is a very important part to have left
>>> out.
>
>>> What you are seeing is called hardball.
>
>>> The owners tried to negotiate their way out of a mortgage that was
>>> going to be increasingly bad for them, with the house upside down
>>> AND the bank wanting to charge more interest.
>
>> You have some interesting thoughts here, and I'll trim out some of
>> the excess while commenting...
>
>>> If both parties signed the documents in good faith, and the
>>> collateral for the loan was only the property, then all the buyer is
>>> doing is exercising a little used clause of the document. The fact
>>> that it dings their credit and makes the bank eat the loss is beside
>>> the point. It fits the legality of the document they both agreed to.
>
>> IF that was as far as the legality went, it sounds logical. However, the action of buying the new house will invoke
>> additional
>> legality, including some statement from the owner regarding
>> intentions on the old house.

> ONLY if the old and new house are in the same name. They dont have to be.

>> I once bought a house in VA when I still had one in WA. Though I had
>> a verbal commitment for a lease (I had not yet moved out) could
>> easily afford both mortgages for some time, it became very difficult
>> to get the lender to agree to the new mortgage. I wound up having to
>> get a letter of intent from the prospective renter of the old house
>> before they would close on the new.

And they wont necessarily do that if the income is high enough to be able
to pay both mortgages at the same time if the first one doesnt rent.

> And the obvious way around that is to have
> someone else have the new house in their name.
>
>> In this case, I suspect some similar document expressing the owner's
>> intention would be required.
>
> Not if the new house is in a different name.
>
>> It would turn to fraud if the owner misrepresented his intention to
>> allow the old house to fall into foreclosure after moving into the
>> new one.
>
> Not if the new house is in a different name even tho its still
> technically fraud.
>> Another factor is that the lender's reach does not stop at
>> foreclosure.
>
> Yes but it does stop at the individual whose name the mortgage is in.
>
>> There is likely a recovery clasue that will allow the lender to
>> attach assets to recover losses in the foreclosure, if the owner has
>> them.
>
> But that wont work if the new house is in a different name.
>
>> While the lender may not be able to "take" the new house, they could
>> well put a lien on it that would cloud the title and make it near
>> impossible to sell prior to settling the lien with the old lender.
>
> Not if its in a different name.
>
>>> If you think this is odd, you ought to be privey to some of the
>>> tenant landlord negotiations and shenanigans in shopping centers.
>
>> Yeah, but that's "business," and "everybody" expects businesses to
>> declare bankruptcy and escape their debts... ;)
>
> And plenty of individuals do that too.
>
>>> Similarly, the homeowner simply leveraged his position, and when the
>>> bank played hardball by refusing to negotiate, he played hardball
>>> back.
>
>> Unfortunately, his position of power may be VERY temporary, and while
>> he could be successful in the short term, it could backfire on him
>> BADLY!
>
> Not if he organises the detail properly.
>
>>> There is a minor sleaze factor, but in most cases those ARMs were
>>> sold to people who didn't have a rats ass chance of ever meeting
>>> the bump in rates, and the lenders knew it.
>
> So did the borrower.
>
>>> The deception was on the part of the lenders,
>
> Nope.
>
>>> and the buyers were too caught up in the game to recognize the
>>> downside.
>
> Lie. Most of them thought that they could flip the house before the
> higher rates became due, and found out that it doesnt always work that way.
>
>> I totally agree that the bulk of this "mortgage crisis" was caused by
>> greedy lenders attempting to cash in on marginal or ridiculous
>> mortgages.
>
> Corse there was no greed at all with any of the borrowers, eh ?
>
>> I have little sympathy for them, but it is apparent that the
>> politicians are working to protect those sleazeballs MUCH harder
>> than they are to protect the swindled and/or ignorant owners.
>
> Because those are the ones that matters as far as the collapse of the
> economy is concerned.
>> However, this does not appear to be the case here... If the owner
>> has enough paper assets for a mortgage on a second house, he clearly
>> has enough assets to continue to pay or refinance the current
>> mortgage. He has decided to pre-emptively cut his losses on the old
>> house so he can buy a new one. It appears he COULD continue to pay
>> the $$ he contracted to pay, but he doesn't WANT to do so.
>
> Or that its possible to look good on paper long enough to get the
> second mortgage and then let the first one go into foreclosure.
>
> It isnt hard to do that if you realise that you are
> upside down on the first mortgage early enough.
>
>>> Sleaze factor? If I were the homeowner, I wouldn't worry about it.
>
>> In this case, I would. I think he's setting himself up for a BIG
>> fall!
>
> Not necessarily, depends entirely on how the detail is organised.

== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 2:02 pm
From: George Grapman

Be certain the new "owner" is someone you will trust with your life
because they can dispose of the property and keep the proceeds.
A few years ago a friend was sued and was worried about losing his
car to a judgment. We talked about selling it to me while he still used
it. We never looked into any risks because he was able to get the case
dismissed.

== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 2:21 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:58:36 -0700, "John Weiss"
<jrweiss98155NOSPAM@NOSPAM.comcast.net> wrote:

>However, this does not appear to be the case here... If the owner has enough
>paper assets for a mortgage on a second house, he clearly has enough assets to
>continue to pay or refinance the current mortgage. He has decided to
>pre-emptively cut his losses on the old house so he can buy a new one. It
>appears he COULD continue to pay the $$ he contracted to pay, but he doesn't
>WANT to do so.

You raise some good counterpoints. Tossing in a possible rebutal,
people in business for themselves may often have the house in the
spouse's name only, to protect it from being attached if the business
goes south. In a case like that, she could default, and he could buy
the next house, or visa versa.

I'll agree with you that there are some potential pitfalls, however, I
don't think they will amount to much. Going back to the S&L crisis in
Texas again, I know personally of people who walked and never heard
anything further from the lenders. The scope of the problem was too
big and when the bureaucracy stepped in to try to clear up the mess,
the ones who walked were not held responsible.

In a major crisis, how many debt collectors can be hired, how much of
that paper debt can be recovered without court fights and long and
costly battles? There are going to be _thousands_ losing homes in
this next few months. Courts aren't going to be looking favorably on
lenders trying to bleed the last money from these people, and the
public relations nightmare alone would be enough to kill any hope of
any business that tried from garnering any future business.

To put it another way- it sure doen't look like he has much to lose,
even if he tries and fails. That is part of the anture of hardball,
you play it from a position of strength, and being able to duck into
bankruptcy is a position of strength when your creditors won't
renegotiate.

== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 2:36 pm
From: Seerialmom

On Mar 12, 12:29 pm, "John Weiss"
<jrweiss98155NOS...@NOSPAM.comcast.net> wrote:
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote...
>
> >> First, in this fiscal environment it is unlikely they will get a mortgage for
> >> a second house if the first one is not sold (or at least for sale in a
> >> reasonable market) or leased out.
>
> > Wrong if the second one is in a different name to the first one.
>
> I saw no proposal for, or indication of, a name change.

As far as I know there wasn't. And because it's a community property
state...his debt is her debt and vice/versa. But it is possible they
"said" they were going to rent out the house in order to get the 2nd
house. Hard to tell. I figure 3-6 months from now I'll know what
actually happened.

== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 2:37 pm
From: Seerialmom

On Mar 12, 12:11 pm, barbie gee <barbie....@NOSESPAMgmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Mar 2008, John Weiss wrote:
> > "Seerialmom" <seerial...@yahoo.com> wrote...
> >> Ok...so yesterday someone I know said their family was moving into a
> >> new house (not brand new..but newer than where they are now). When
> >> asked if they had sold their current house or if they were going to
> >> rent it out; this person disclosed that they were still current on the
> >> house payment where they are now....but once they move into the other
> >> house they're buying the old house would eventually go into
> >> foreclosure. Aside from the major "ding" on the credit rating for the
> >> next 7 years....I'm still trying to figure out if this was smart
> >> planning on their part or just outright fraud? At the least maybe
> >> unethical? Just curious if anyone had heard of doing this before?
>
> > First, in this fiscal environment it is unlikely they will get a mortgage for a
> > second house if the first one is not sold (or at least for sale in a reasonable
> > market) or leased out.
>
> > Second, the bank may well go after them AFTER foreclosure for all the $$ they
> > lost in the process. Among the actions they could take are garnishment of wages
> > and putting a lien on their new house.
>
> > It's certainly not smart. Depending on the assertions they make to the new
> > lender regarding the old house, it may become fraud. I consider it unethical,
> > since they are likely stealing from me: The loan guarantee they likely have is
> > funded from my taxes...
>
> I really hope serialmom lets us all know how this turns out!- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I will. Again this just came up in a casual conversation the other
day; I'll know in a few months whether it actually went through as
"easily" as this person claimed. Personally I'd rather not have a
default judgement on my credit record.

== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 2:38 pm
From: George Grapman

George Grapman wrote:
> Be certain the new "owner" is someone you will trust with your life
> because they can dispose of the property and keep the proceeds.
> A few years ago a friend was sued and was worried about losing his car
> to a judgment. We talked about selling it to me while he still used it.
> We never looked into any risks because he was able to get the case
> dismissed.

Relating to the above- At one point I suggested that my friend go to
one of those places that lends you money on your car,holds a lien but
allows you to keep the car. I thought a small loan with low payments
would work but I learned that is someone had a judgment they could pay
off his loan and get the car after the lien was lifted.
I know one person who was going overseas for a few months and needed
to store her car. She pawned in for $1,000 returned three months later
and retrieved it for something like $1,4000. Viewed as interest it was
very high but viewed as a parking charge of less than $100 a month in a
large city it was a bargain. Also, the business has a vested interest in
making sure they car is protected.

== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 2:41 pm
From: Seerialmom

On Mar 12, 1:05 pm, skark...@gmail.com wrote:
> Here is an article on the same subject. Apparently there is a business
> that is helping in that effort.
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/29/us/29walks.html?hp

Similar I suppose. Except in the article that company is charging a
price to do what the homeowner could do himself without spending
$995. And they don't get another house to buy in it's place?

== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 2:49 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Seerialmom <seerialmom@yahoo.com> wrote
> John Weiss <jrweiss98155NOS...@NOSPAM.comcast.net> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote

>>>> First, in this fiscal environment it is unlikely they will get
>>>> a mortgage for a second house if the first one is not sold
>>>> (or at least for sale in a reasonable market) or leased out.

>>> Wrong if the second one is in a different name to the first one.

>> I saw no proposal for, or indication of, a name change.

> As far as I know there wasn't. And because it's a community
> property state...his debt is her debt and vice/versa.

But isnt true of adult children etc.

> But it is possible they "said" they were going to
> rent out the house in order to get the 2nd house.

Yep, plenty do that sort of thing for investment etc.

> Hard to tell. I figure 3-6 months from now I'll know what actually happened.

Bet it does work fine.

== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 2:55 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Seerialmom <seerialmom@yahoo.com> wrote
> barbie gee <barbie....@NOSESPAMgmail.com> wrote
>> John Weiss wrote
>>> Seerialmom <seerial...@yahoo.com> wrote

>>>> Ok...so yesterday someone I know said their family was moving into
>>>> a new house (not brand new..but newer than where they are now).
>>>> When asked if they had sold their current house or if they were
>>>> going to rent it out; this person disclosed that they were still
>>>> current on the house payment where they are now....but once they
>>>> move into the other house they're buying the old house would
>>>> eventually go into foreclosure. Aside from the major "ding" on the
>>>> credit rating for the next 7 years....I'm still trying to figure
>>>> out if this was smart planning on their part or just outright
>>>> fraud? At the least maybe unethical? Just curious if anyone had
>>>> heard of doing this before?

>>> First, in this fiscal environment it is unlikely they will get
>>> a mortgage for a second house if the first one is not sold
>>> (or at least for sale in a reasonable market) or leased out.

>>> Second, the bank may well go after them AFTER foreclosure for all
>>> the $$ they lost in the process. Among the actions they could take
>>> are garnishment of wages and putting a lien on their new house.

>>> It's certainly not smart. Depending on the assertions they make
>>> to the new lender regarding the old house, it may become fraud.
>>> I consider it unethical, since they are likely stealing from me:
>>> The loan guarantee they likely have is funded from my taxes...

>> I really hope serialmom lets us all know how this turns out!

> I will. Again this just came up in a casual conversation the
> other day; I'll know in a few months whether it actually went
> through as "easily" as this person claimed. Personally I'd
> rather not have a default judgement on my credit record.

Sure, but thats not necessarily a big deal for some, particularly if they
save a substantial amount on the first house they are upside down on.

I'm basically rolling in it and couldnt care less about the credit record.

Not that I agree with that sort of unethical behaviour, but plenty
do, particularly when they decide that the banks are just as bad
when it suits them and have refused to renegotiate the original
loan when market conditions change etc. Thats the risk the bank
takes when it behaves like that.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Apartment swap Hannibal Mo for Hawaii?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6ff35b63c3210cc9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 1:28 pm
From: me@privacy.net

I live in Hannibal Missouri.... boyhood home of Mark
Twain and on the Mississippi River

I have some time off this summer..... more than a month

How would someone arrange an apartment/apartment or
apartment/house swap so that I could a month in Hawaii
this summer?

Is it even possible and worth pursuing?

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 1:41 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

me@privacy.net wrote:

> I live in Hannibal Missouri.... boyhood home of Mark Twain and on the Mississippi River

> I have some time off this summer..... more than a month

> How would someone arrange an apartment/apartment or apartment/
> house swap so that I could a month in Hawaii this summer?

> Is it even possible

Yes, plenty do that sort of thing. And just look after houses and the associated pets while the owners are away too.

> and worth pursuing?

Yep, its one way to live rent free and is quite viable if you dont mind feeding the cat/dog etc.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 3:27 pm
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <g6fgt3tk0e3j6nbiun4aqmh1sh7tbgmkjm@4ax.com>, me@privacy.net
wrote:

> I live in Hannibal Missouri.... boyhood home of Mark
> Twain and on the Mississippi River
>
> I have some time off this summer..... more than a month
>
> How would someone arrange an apartment/apartment or
> apartment/house swap so that I could a month in Hawaii
> this summer?
>
> Is it even possible and worth pursuing?

Google for "Apartment swap" or "home swap" and you'll find tons of
useful information.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ayone watching?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2c304c568cdd9f71?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 1:33 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Mar 12, 12:33 pm, clams_casino <PeterGrif...@DrunkinClam.com>
wrote:
> m...@privacy.net wrote:
> >Seems pretty cool!
>
> >Decent selection...... works...etc
>
> >What YOU think?
>
> I think your virus containing Spam is a sham.

Seems hopeless the way we're being deluged with all this spam. The
usefulness of GG has been lost in many ways. It seems to me that
Google would rather have the traffic than curtail it. Maybe they value
the room for more sponsored links. All I know is that I can't save the
world. I just move on. It's hard to believe anybody responds to these
links. Then again, someone once said, "You'll never go broke
underestimating the public."

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Is Buying A Hybrid Really Smart??
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/fbeb9906bdd8972d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 1:45 pm
From: "TKM"

"Lou" <lpogodajr292185@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:AJqdnWdJor5ngkranZ2dnUVZ_hadnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "TKM" <noname@no.net> wrote in message
> news:WClBj.297039$MJ6.213849@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>
> (snipped)
>> Discussions about payback don't make any sense to me. No car has a
> payback.
>
> The payback discussion makes sense in the following way -
>
> You can buy a Honda Civic that is not a hybrid, or you can buy a Honda
> Civic
> that is a hybrid. The hybrid version costs more to buy than the non
> hybrid
> version, but gets better mileage and so uses less gas. The non hybrid
> version costs less to buy than the hybrid version, but uses more gas.
>
> So it becomes a question of do you want jam today or jam sometime in the
> future. How long will it take for the total cost of owning and operating
> the hybrid version to be less than the total cost of owning and operating
> the non hybrid version. That period is the payback period, the amount of
> time it takes before you begin to realize a return on the money invested
> in
> the hybrid version that's over and above what it would have cost to buy
> the
> non hybrid version.
>
> That period is going to be different for every car and for every driver,
> but
> overall there will be some average figure. Right now it looks to be
> somewhere around six years. If the price of gas continues to climb, that
> time will get shorter. If the current price of gas is at least partly a
> "bubble" phenomenon (like the late housing bubble or the stock bubble
> before
> that) then once the bubble bursts, that time will get longer.
>

I would call that kind of payback a payback of the additional investment.
Fine, but there's little chance the total price of the car would somehow be
paid back. Hertz, Avis et al do it, of course; but not individual
non-business owners.

TKM

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 3:46 pm
From: frey@encompasserve.org (Sharon)

In article <e9e8d705-dd0b-4449-b5e1-4366b2fe86ba@s37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Seerialmom <seerialmom@yahoo.com> writes:
> On Mar 10, 12:49=A0pm, James <j0069b...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Do you save anything on long trips? =A0I understand the savings is in
>> city stop & go traffic and not on the highway crusing at 65.
>
> That's my understanding about the hybrids as well. And since the
> majority of my driving is "highway"; it doesn't make sense. However,
> it'd be fine with rush hour gridlock, right?

Again, this is just my experience, so YMMV. I've found that I get
GREAT mileage even at highway speeds. If I can set the cruise control and not
brake alot for idiots on the highway, I can get 50+mpg even at 70mph.
And of course in stop-and-creep traffic like you get in traffic jams,
then I get practically 100mpg because that's running only on the battery.
My worst mileage is actually in city. I've found that when I have to
stop at a red light, then accelerate to say 35-40mph before stopping for the
next frickin light, my mileage drops to about 35mpg. The reason is that
acceleration takes energy, in a Prius just like any other car. If I could
gently and slowly accelerate I'd get better mileage, but who wants to drive
like a gramma? Also, nobody behind me wants to be stuck behind a gramma. So
you still have to keep up with traffic, and the accelerate/decelerate patterns
in city driving suck big time.

- Sharon
"Gravity... is a harsh mistress!"

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Converter boxes for new HDTV sets -- which is the best one?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5343327e579a1c1b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 2:02 pm
From: Jim Prescott

In article <EfxBj.22713$R84.9733@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net>,
larry <foo@foobar.com> wrote:
>Only problem is that you can't use the fed coupons. Only
>converter boxes with rf ch3/4 and/or composite video output
>qualify.

For converter boxes eligible for the fed coupons:
- RF & composite outputs are required
- S-Video is optional
- component, DVI, HDMI, USB are prohibited

There is a good summary of the features on the various boxes at:
http://www.freelabs.com/~whitis/electronics/dtv_converters/
--
Jim Prescott - Computing and Networking Group jgp@seas.rochester.edu
School of Engineering and Applied Sciences, University of Rochester, NY

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Save Money Sending Greeting Cards and Postcards!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b02976fff4b98076?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 3:33 pm
From: Victory

By joining my SendOutCards team of Service Professionals you can, with
a simple click of your computer mouse, select a card, write a message,
and send the card.
We print the high quality card, stuff the envelope, address it and
stamp it, and SEND IT in the MAIL for you. It's fast, easy, fun, and
the total cost is LESS THAN A DOLLAR! Think of all the cards you send
out during the holiday season, Valentines, and Easter!!
You're guaranteed to be smiling when you click 'send' because your
chosen card is REALLY the perfect card for the recipient, AND you're
GETTING A RETURN ON YOUR INVESTMENT!
A win-win situation!
Place the link below in your address bar and click 'go'. Take a tour
of SendOut Cards and send out two cards on me!

www.socreview.com/4Victory

Then join the team online or email: execasst@rogers.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sloppy Business Practice on Chase VISA card and Charter One Bank
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/72ded8c69f0b49f7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 5:39 pm
From: yuer98idf@lycos.com

Last month I paid my bill to Chase Visa credit card but it was one day
over due. They payment was through Charter One bank's online
electronic payment system. Without notice, Charter One suddenly
increased the payment time from 5 days to 7 days (I did not realize
that at the time of submitting the electronic payment), which then
resulted in my overdue payment to my credit card. Too bad. I never
been delinquent on any payment and my FICO score was over 800. I asked
Chase Visa to remove the $39 late fee considering my one-time
situation, but the rep refused. I asked Charter One to reimburse me
the $39 for the penalty that Chase imposed on me, but they refused.
OK, ultimately it is my fault on the late payment, but instead of "Win-
Lose" situation, let's do a "Lose-Lose". I decided to suspend using
Chase card for one year, and to close Charter One bank for good. Not
everyone can make this kind of decision, but I can. I have several of
other high quality credit cards and banks to use. I am sure my credit
score will be back to 800 soon.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Passion Parties Book a party or become a consultant 866)461-1772
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/78c2fe56184dd82c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 12 2008 5:46 pm
From: hillarycu

Passion Parties are in home adult toy parties, but we offer so much
more than toys and lubes! Our hostesses earn free products and are
able to treat their friends to a fun night they'll be talking about
for weeks to come! Ready to schedule your fun party visit my website
at http://www.secretsforpassion.com fill out the form and I will
contact you within 24 hours.

Our consultants get paid to party and are trained to educate and
entertain you and your friends!
Passion Parties carries a wide variety of adult products to enhance
and spice up your love life and the parties are so much fun! We carry
a wide variety of high quality items. We have "mild" items like
lingerie, books, games, sensual massage oils and lotions, and our
exclusive line of Romanta Therapy bath and body products.
Don't have time for a party? But feel you need some passion now, you
can visit my website and shop online! There really is something for
everyone.
All transactions are secure and confidential. http://www.secretsforpassion.com
Hosting a party is a fun and unique alternative to adult store
shopping, and the BEST part is, you earn FREE PRODUCTS! It's a fun
idea for bachelorette parties, bridal showers, birthday parties, and
even just a way to start a girls night out! I can do co-ed or couples
parties too!
I am also looking for team members nationwide. Visit my website
http://www.secretsforpassion.com

fill out the form and I will contact
you within 24 hours.
Join Passion Parties and see why we're the best! Consultants are in
high demand in the US and Canada and now is the best time to start.
Enjoy freedom and fun with unlimited earning potential at Passion
Parties. Some choose to work as consultant full time, some as a hobby,
and every level in between. You can make it what you want, and I'll be
here to guide you on the path to success.
Take control of your life and dreams today! Call 866)461-1772 or
http://www.secretsforpassion.com

I love what I do, so I'll do my best to make your Passion Parties
experience a memorable one!
adult sex toy parties, adult sex toy party, adult toy parties, adult
toy party, adult toys, parties, at home parties, join passion parties,
become a passion consultant, passion diva, bachelorette, bachelorette
parties, bachelorette party, bachelorette party games, bachelorette
party gift, bachelorette party gifts, bachelorette party idea,
bachelorette party ideas, bachelorette sex parties, bachelorette
party, ideas for bachelorette parties, lingerie parties, parties,
party, party consultant, party hostess, party ideas, party diva, party
California, party California, passion party California, passion genie,
passion, passion California, independent consultant, hostess,
passions, passions com, planning bachelorette party, sex parties, sex
party, sex toy parties, sex toy party, slumber party adult toys, adult
novelty toys, adult party, adult sex toy parties, adult toys parties,
adult toys party, erotic gifts, host a passion party, host a sex toy
party, passion parties, passion parties, passion parties consultant,
passion party, passion party consultant, passion party consultants,
passion party products, passion parties, passions parties, passions
party, sex party, sex toy ideas, sex toy parties, California sex toy
party, California sex toy parties, Californiasex toys parties,
California sex toys party, sexy gifts, slumber party, pure romance,
ultimate nights, ultimate girls night, girls night out, girls night
in, ultimate girls nights, girls night out, single again party, girls
night in, sex toys, single again party, women helping women,brittany
spears, paris hilton, I do those fun parties.AK / AZ / AR / CA / CO /
CT / DE / DC / FL / GA / HI / ID / IL / IN / IA / KS / KY / LA / ME /
MD / MA / MI / MN /MS / MO / MT / NE / NV / NH / NJ / NM / NY / NC /
ND / OH / OK / OR /PA / RI / SC / SD / TN / TX / UT / VT / VA / WA /
WV / WI /WY

==============================================================================

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "misc.consumers.frugal-living"
group.

To post to this group, visit http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to misc.consumers.frugal-living-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

To change the way you get mail from this group, visit:
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/subscribe?hl=en

To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to abuse@googlegroups.com

==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com?hl=en

Frugal Living

Blog Archive

Wednesday, March 12, 2008

25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

No comments: