Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 11 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Defense: Woman too obese to kill nephew
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7a462b958e5ce1ed?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 27 2008 11:31 am
From: larry@nowhere.net (Larry)

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/27/obese.prosecution.ap/index.html

Defense: Woman too obese to kill nephew

Story Highlights

* Attorney claims half-ton woman was not physically capable of killing
nephew
* Eliseo Gonzalez Jr. died after being struck at least twice in head,
prosecutor says
* Mayra Rosales placed under house arrest because jail cell is not big
enough for her

EDINBURG, Texas (AP) -- A nearly half-ton Texas woman charged in the death
of her toddler nephew couldn't have beaten the boy to death because of her
limited movement from weight problems, her attorney said Tuesday.

Mayra Rosales, who weighs nearly 1,000 pounds, was indicted last week on
capital murder charges in the death of Eliseo Gonzalez Jr. Prosecutors said
the 2-year-old boy died after being struck at least twice in the head while
in the care of Rosales, who is bedridden.

Jamie Rosales, the boy's 20-year-old mother, believes the death was
possibly caused by the morbidly obese woman rolling onto the toddler, said
Oscar Vega, her attorney. She faces one felony count of injury to a child,
which carries a life sentence and 10,000 in fines.

"She doesn't believe her sister intentionally did anything to her child,"
Vega told The Associated Press.

A state district judge put Mayra Rosales, 27, under house arrest Monday
because the county jail lacks a large enough cell or necessary medical
resources. She is required to wear a global-positioning tracker until her
trial.

Sergio Valdez, Mayra Rosales' attorney, said she lacks the movement in her
arms to have killed the child, calling it an "impossibility."

"She is not physically capable of having committed those acts," Valdez
said.

Valdez said Rosales suffers from a thyroid problem that has caused her to
put on hundreds of pounds over the past three to four years and has been
bedridden for more than a year.

The stress of the arrest and charges has exacerbated the poor health of
Mayra Rosales, who also suffers from a "life-threatening" ailment he would
not disclose, Valdez said.

"This whole ordeal has taken a very negative effect on her, emotionally and
physically," Valdez said. "She wants this to be over. She wants to be
vindicated."

Vega said Jamie Rosales has a learning disability and will plead not
guilty.

He declined to say where his client was the day of her son's death, but
said he knew of no order forbidding the boy to be watched by his aunt.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 27 2008 12:23 pm
From: Bluuuue Rajah

larry@nowhere.net (Larry) wrote in
news:20080827183121.8A7094E5B3@outpost.zedz.net:

> EDINBURG, Texas (AP) -- A nearly half-ton Texas woman charged in the
> death of her toddler nephew couldn't have beaten the boy to death
> because of her limited movement from weight problems, her attorney
> said Tuesday.

What if the kid came within arms length?

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 27 2008 1:18 pm
From: Al Bundy

Larry wrote:
> http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/27/obese.prosecution.ap/index.html
>
> Defense: Woman too obese to kill nephew
>
> Story Highlights
>
> * Attorney claims half-ton woman was not physically capable of killing
> nephew
> * Eliseo Gonzalez Jr. died after being struck at least twice in head,
> prosecutor says
> * Mayra Rosales placed under house arrest because jail cell is not big
> enough for her
>
>
> EDINBURG, Texas (AP) -- A nearly half-ton Texas woman charged in the death
> of her toddler nephew couldn't have beaten the boy to death because of her
> limited movement from weight problems, her attorney said Tuesday.
>
> Mayra Rosales, who weighs nearly 1,000 pounds, was indicted last week on
> capital murder charges in the death of Eliseo Gonzalez Jr. Prosecutors said
> the 2-year-old boy died after being struck at least twice in the head while
> in the care of Rosales, who is bedridden.
>
> Jamie Rosales, the boy's 20-year-old mother, believes the death was
> possibly caused by the morbidly obese woman rolling onto the toddler, said
> Oscar Vega, her attorney. She faces one felony count of injury to a child,
> which carries a life sentence and 10,000 in fines.
>
> "She doesn't believe her sister intentionally did anything to her child,"
> Vega told The Associated Press.
>
> A state district judge put Mayra Rosales, 27, under house arrest Monday
> because the county jail lacks a large enough cell or necessary medical
> resources. She is required to wear a global-positioning tracker until her
> trial.
>
> Sergio Valdez, Mayra Rosales' attorney, said she lacks the movement in her
> arms to have killed the child, calling it an "impossibility."
>
> "She is not physically capable of having committed those acts," Valdez
> said.
>
> Valdez said R sales suffers from a thyroid problem that has caused her to
> put on hundreds of pounds over the past three to four years and has been
> bedridden for more than a year.
>
> The stress of the arrest and charges has exacerbated the poor health of
> Mayra Rosales, who also suffers from a "life-threatening" ailment he would
> not disclose, Valdez said.
>
> "This whole ordeal has taken a very negative effect on her, emotionally and
> physically," Valdez said. "She wants this to be over. She wants to be
> vindicated."
>
> Vega said Jamie Rosales has a learning disability and will plead not
> guilty.
>
> He declined to say where his client was the day of her son's death, but
> said he knew of no order forbidding the boy to be watched by his aunt.

It's not for me to stand in judgment. All I can do is make
observations.

Obviously, they must make extensions for tethers the way they do for
seat belts. I thought they were semi-permanently attached. If the case
doesn't go to court soon, she will outgrow it and have medical
problems and a lawsuit.

If Mayra weighs 1000# and is 27 years old, then the sister Jamie
weighs 741 and the kid weighs 74# on a prorated basis. Bet I'm not far
off either. If you have a thyroid problem, does that allow your body
to pull calories out of the air? No. You have to have somebody
bringing those cheeseburgers to you and funneling them in.

Which trailor park do the live in?

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:25 pm
From: Bluuuue Rajah

Al Bundy <MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote in
news:34e8a4ea-7847-4aa8-a9e7-b65c576ad35f@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:

>
>
> Larry wrote:
>> http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/27/obese.prosecution.ap/index.html
>>
>> Defense: Woman too obese to kill nephew
>>
>> Story Highlights
>>
>> * Attorney claims half-ton woman was not physically capable of
>> killing nephew
>> * Eliseo Gonzalez Jr. died after being struck at least twice in head,
>> prosecutor says
>> * Mayra Rosales placed under house arrest because jail cell is not
>> big enough for her
>>
>>
>> EDINBURG, Texas (AP) -- A nearly half-ton Texas woman charged in the
>> death of her toddler nephew couldn't have beaten the boy to death
>> because of her limited movement from weight problems, her attorney
>> said Tuesday.
>>
>> Mayra Rosales, who weighs nearly 1,000 pounds, was indicted last week
>> on capital murder charges in the death of Eliseo Gonzalez Jr.
>> Prosecutors said the 2-year-old boy died after being struck at least
>> twice in the head while in the care of Rosales, who is bedridden.
>>
>> Jamie Rosales, the boy's 20-year-old mother, believes the death was
>> possibly caused by the morbidly obese woman rolling onto the toddler,
>> said Oscar Vega, her attorney. She faces one felony count of injury
>> to a child, which carries a life sentence and 10,000 in fines.
>>
>> "She doesn't believe her sister intentionally did anything to her
>> child," Vega told The Associated Press.
>>
>> A state district judge put Mayra Rosales, 27, under house arrest
>> Monday because the county jail lacks a large enough cell or necessary
>> medical resources. She is required to wear a global-positioning
>> tracker until her trial.
>>
>> Sergio Valdez, Mayra Rosales' attorney, said she lacks the movement
>> in her arms to have killed the child, calling it an "impossibility."
>>
>> "She is not physically capable of having committed those acts,"
>> Valdez said.
>>
>> Valdez said R sales suffers from a thyroid problem that has caused
>> her to put on hundreds of pounds over the past three to four years
>> and has been bedridden for more than a year.
>>
>> The stress of the arrest and charges has exacerbated the poor health
>> of Mayra Rosales, who also suffers from a "life-threatening" ailment
>> he would not disclose, Valdez said.
>>
>> "This whole ordeal has taken a very negative effect on her,
>> emotionally and physically," Valdez said. "She wants this to be over.
>> She wants to be vindicated."
>>
>> Vega said Jamie Rosales has a learning disability and will plead not
>> guilty.
>>
>> He declined to say where his client was the day of her son's death,
>> but said he knew of no order forbidding the boy to be watched by his
>> aunt.
>
> It's not for me to stand in judgment. All I can do is make
> observations.
>
> Obviously, they must make extensions for tethers the way they do for
> seat belts. I thought they were semi-permanently attached. If the case
> doesn't go to court soon, she will outgrow it and have medical
> problems and a lawsuit.
>
> If Mayra weighs 1000# and is 27 years old, then the sister Jamie
> weighs 741 and the kid weighs 74# on a prorated basis. Bet I'm not far
> off either. If you have a thyroid problem, does that allow your body
> to pull calories out of the air? No. You have to have somebody
> bringing those cheeseburgers to you and funneling them in.

Thyroid controls appetite.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:36 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Aug 27, 5:25 pm, Bluuuue Rajah <Bluuuuue@Rajah.> wrote:
> Al Bundy <MSfort...@mcpmail.com> wrote innews:34e8a4ea-7847-4aa8-a9e7-b65c576ad35f@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Larry wrote:
> >>http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/27/obese.prosecution.ap/index.html
>
> >> Defense: Woman too obese to kill nephew
>
> >> Story Highlights
>
> >> * Attorney claims half-ton woman was not physically capable of
> >> killing nephew
> >> * Eliseo Gonzalez Jr. died after being struck at least twice in head,
> >> prosecutor says
> >> * Mayra Rosales placed under house arrest because jail cell is not
> >> big enough for her
>
> >> EDINBURG, Texas (AP) -- A nearly half-ton Texas woman charged in the
> >> death of her toddler nephew couldn't have beaten the boy to death
> >> because of her limited movement from weight problems, her attorney
> >> said Tuesday.
>
> >> Mayra Rosales, who weighs nearly 1,000 pounds, was indicted last week
> >> on capital murder charges in the death of Eliseo Gonzalez Jr.
> >> Prosecutors said the 2-year-old boy died after being struck at least
> >> twice in the head while in the care of Rosales, who is bedridden.
>
> >> Jamie Rosales, the boy's 20-year-old mother, believes the death was
> >> possibly caused by the morbidly obese woman rolling onto the toddler,
> >> said Oscar Vega, her attorney. She faces one felony count of injury
> >> to a child, which carries a life sentence and 10,000 in fines.
>
> >> "She doesn't believe her sister intentionally did anything to her
> >> child," Vega told The Associated Press.
>
> >> A state district judge put Mayra Rosales, 27, under house arrest
> >> Monday because the county jail lacks a large enough cell or necessary
> >> medical resources. She is required to wear a global-positioning
> >> tracker until her trial.
>
> >> Sergio Valdez, Mayra Rosales' attorney, said she lacks the movement
> >> in her arms to have killed the child, calling it an "impossibility."
>
> >> "She is not physically capable of having committed those acts,"
> >> Valdez said.
>
> >> Valdez said R sales suffers from a thyroid problem that has caused
> >> her to put on hundreds of pounds over the past three to four years
> >> and has been bedridden for more than a year.
>
> >> The stress of the arrest and charges has exacerbated the poor health
> >> of Mayra Rosales, who also suffers from a "life-threatening" ailment
> >> he would not disclose, Valdez said.
>
> >> "This whole ordeal has taken a very negative effect on her,
> >> emotionally and physically," Valdez said. "She wants this to be over.
> >> She wants to be vindicated."
>
> >> Vega said Jamie Rosales has a learning disability and will plead not
> >> guilty.
>
> >> He declined to say where his client was the day of her son's death,
> >> but said he knew of no order forbidding the boy to be watched by his
> >> aunt.
>
> > It's not for me to stand in judgment. All I can do is make
> > observations.
>
> > Obviously, they must make extensions for tethers the way they do for
> > seat belts. I thought they were semi-permanently attached. If the case
> > doesn't go to court soon, she will outgrow it and have medical
> > problems and a lawsuit.
>
> > If Mayra weighs 1000# and is 27 years old, then the sister Jamie
> > weighs 741 and the kid weighs 74# on a prorated basis. Bet I'm not far
> > off either. If you have a thyroid problem, does that allow your body
> > to pull calories out of the air? No. You have to have somebody
> > bringing those cheeseburgers to you and funneling them in.
>
> Thyroid controls appetite.

I have a thyroid problem. I control what I eat. A thyroid problem
doesn't make one stupid.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: RIP Bobbi Sanchez
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a3ef1cf02aaa72c4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 27 2008 11:46 am
From: mike@nowhere.com (Mike)

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008, Ragnar <Ragnarsghost@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Some choose to swim in the potty bowl of nan-ae rather than flush it
>> down :0)
>
>Ah yes, the ONE time I mistakenly posted through the wife's account
>from a year and a half ago surfaces again. Nice try defending your
>asshole troll buddies but you fail miserably.

Liar!

http://tinyurl.com/6ayxr2

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:19 pm
From: SneakyP

mike@nowhere.com (Mike) wrote in
news:20080827184625.155194E4B1@outpost.zedz.net:

> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008, Ragnar <Ragnarsghost@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Some choose to swim in the potty bowl of nan-ae rather than flush it
>>> down :0)
>>
>>Ah yes, the ONE time I mistakenly posted through the wife's account
>>from a year and a half ago surfaces again. Nice try defending your
>>asshole troll buddies but you fail miserably.

Nope, not mine. Did not defend anyone either. Re-read it for your
miscomprehension problems.

>
> Liar!
>
Indeed.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/6ayxr2
>
>

Lets reprint the "erased" evidence. There's no X-No Archive header so
that means it was erased. GG gave the option of erasing ones own posts,
so there goes another oooopsie. The other posts from "Renee" were
searchable, BTW.

Tried to cover this one up by erasing it from googlegroups, didntcha
RagTARD?:

Path: postnews.google.com!b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
From: Renee <ssbbwrenee@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups:
soc.support.fat-acceptance,soc.singles,alt.troll,alt.usenet.kooks
Subject: Re: Bobbi Sanchez's (Lady Veteran) new phone number Date: 18
Apr 2007 14:12:05 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com
Lines: 63
Message-ID: <1176930725.649117.32890@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>
References: <MLHTHFZP39188.8103819444@anonymous.poster>
<j6qa23d6p2j8fp0pk52eng9a8u3umrjnla@4ax.com> <46257748_1@x-privat.org>
<6lkc23prsfkkf46j1i8a60viidclrcnc9j@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host:
68.236.222.79 Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
X-Trace: posting.google.com 1176930726 30365 127.0.0.1 (18 Apr 2007
21:12:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 21:12:06 +0000 (UTC)
In-Reply-To: <6lkc23prsfkkf46j1i8a60viidclrcnc9j@4ax.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.0;
.NET CLR 1.1.4322),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) Complaints-To:
groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com;
posting-host=68.236.222.79;
posting-account=o43_Eg0AAABj-DInmz-d07-Le0czw6ZC Xref:
soc.support.fat-acceptance:350546 soc.singles:639997 alt.troll:361547
alt.usenet.kooks:1528982

On Apr 18, 1:43 pm, Daedalus <j...@netk0o0oks.org> wrote:
> On 18 Apr 2007 03:41:28 +0200, "Hunter" <hun...@no-one.org> wrote:
>
> >Lady Veteran wrote:
>
> >> On 17 Apr 2007 01:26:57 -0000, repo...@forbeggars.com (Toyota of
> >> Dallas) wrote:
>
> <Piggybacking, because my ISP doesn't pick up Bobbi's posts anymore>
>
> >> I wish I could think of a word so foul, so hideous and so vile that
> >> would describe what I think of you and your behavior you filthy son
> >> of a bitch.
>
> Well, it's no secret you're pretty lacking in the intelligence area.
>
>
>
> >> Now all you good for nothing piles of fecal material can see that
> >> this is an attempt at taking things to real life.
>
> It certainly seems to be. Whoever did that to you is actually one of
> those idiots you rant about all the time.
>
> > This is truly first grade
> >> reading level.
>
> They had to make it so you'd understand it.
>
>
>
> >> Norman, you can go fuck yourself. You are very brave hiding behind
> >> a munged email. It would be worth going to jail to put you in the
> >> sewer where you belong.
>
> You'd kill one asshole over posting a phone number that you can have
> changed? <Even when I try to sympathize with you, I can't ignore the
> blatant craziness.>
>
>
>
> >> Ragnar. You stir the stew but you refuse to eat it. God Damn you
> >> anyway.
>
> I don't know wtf that kookgibberish is supposed to mean but Ragnar is
> one of the most honest people posting here. And I don't even like him.
>
> Jade

Thank you Jade. I now feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
But be advised, I don't like you either.

As for you LV, I think I know what you are referring to. But if you
expect me to eat your shit like some other SSFA supporters here, you
are sadly mistaken.

BTW, my ISP does not pick up your posts, so save your fingers and your
brain the trouble.

Ragnar

=======================

Massive FAIL

<lol>

Now keep jostling those asshole trolls of yours now, ya hear?

--
SneakyP
To reply: newsgroup only, what's posted in ng stays in ng.

Some choose to swim in the potty bowl of nan-ae rather than flush it
down :0)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ample Hygiene for Ample People - Booklet
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/dc8fc27fa46ffb27?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 27 2008 11:53 am
From: chris@nospamplz.com (Chris)

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008, Ragnar <Ragnarsghost@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Why is it that you are perplexed? Some people of size have special
>needs. Understanding that is not rocket science.

Quit trying to sell your ass wiping dwarf services here. No one is
interested in your spam, Ragtard.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: good
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b3b819d2a69c32c6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 27 2008 1:52 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Aug 27, 1:04 pm, daisha52...@gmail.com wrote:
> www.yahooshoes.cn

So his girlfriend said, "OH, Wang Lee, size is very overrated."
Lee conceives idea to post short too, perhaps licks screen for good
luck.

Or, in the words of Charlie Chan:
"Only foolish man waste words when argument is lost."
cÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ

==============================================================================
TOPIC: there's a Recession?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/fc98d5a3d34b07b5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 27 2008 1:58 pm
From: clams_casino

Hannah Montana tickets went on sale here for $150 - $350. Maybe $4 gas
is cheap.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:32 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote

> Hannah Montana tickets went on sale here for $150 - $350.

Who ?

> Maybe $4 gas is cheap.

Or maybe not.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:39 pm
From: Al Bundy

clams_casino wrote:
> Hannah Montana tickets went on sale here for $150 - $350. Maybe $4 gas
> is cheap.

Montanna tickets are $150 because the parents have no willpower. The
kids are not buying those tickets. The kids don't know or care about
inflation. The price is the price. "Take me."

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Walmart Prices: Urban vs Rural?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/85719f2d4728a958?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 27 2008 2:00 pm
From: George

Neon John wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:08:30 -0400, George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> In business, as in war, the guy willing to risk the most usually wins. The
>>> bank valued my business much more than I valued their CC machines so we
>>> reached an agreement in my favor.
>>>
>>> John
>>
>> Not doubting you but according to everything I have ever been told it is
>> unusual. The local store I described is a huge place which includes a
>> tire center, hardware, furniture, pets, sporting goods etc. The family
>> that owns it has a total of 3 such operations.
>
> It depends on who your processor is. The two major categories are banks
> themselves and independent processors. I did end up moving my banking because
> of other issues and at neither bank was I asked to sign a merchant agreement.
>
> Sales reps from independent processors called on me frequently. Some had
> slightly better rates than my bank but the deal-killer that they all had in
> common was the mother of all contracts. At least 10 pages of about 8 point
> type that would have taken me hours to read if I'd been able to actually see
> the text. I'm sure that somewhere in that contract was a clause prohibiting
> what I did. That was fine. I sold 'em some BBQ and sent 'em on their way :-)
>
> I should note that I never did business with a banking conglomerate. I always
> banked with home-town independent banks. I knew the president and could walk
> in and chat any time. When they sold out to a conglomerate and he founded a
> new bank, I moved with him. I'm sure that, say, a Citibank would offer a
> merchant agreement large enough that I could use it for wall paper.

Tough thing to do. The faceless, monolithic do it our way or the highway
megabanks own most of the banks and typically the locals are just
typically speculators who are trying to become big enough to sell out to
a megabank. So as soon as you build a relationship with them your
account gets turned over to megabank.

>
> The major incentive to deal with a home town bank and forego other benefits
> such as in-network ATMs all over the country >IS< the personal service. I
> expected them to stand between me and Visa/MC and they did. I'm sure that
> someone at the back told a V/MC rep that they'd scolded me and that all was
> well.
>
> One other thing that I should note. V/MC aren't all-powerful. In addition to
> having the anti-trust government types on their backs, they deal with
> companies much larger than they. They don't dictate terms in a pre-printed
> contract in those cases. They negotiate terms.
>
> Quite obviously the major chain gas stations and truck stops have negotiated
> agreements that let them give cash discounts. Very substantial ones. Most
> Love's and other chain truck stops, er, travel centers, have interstate
> billboards that alternately flash the cash and credit prices. During my year
> of OTR truck driving, I became quite familiar with those. Sometimes the
> discount was as much as 12 cents/gallon.

I have never seen that in my state and thats what I wondered about. Also
I don't remember seeing that in adjoining states. The billboards you see
have the price for diesel and regular and no mention of a cash discount.
If you pull into one of those places and push the cash button on the
pump it merely means you will pay cash with enough markup to help pay
for the credit card transactions.

>
> The company that I drove for gave me a fuel card that when used at the truck
> pump, rendered yet another price, the one that they'd negotiated with the
> chain. We could use certain chains but not others. "Others" apparently
> hadn't reached a satisfactory pricing agreement with the trucking company.

Fleet pricing is a totally different thing. We are discussing retail
purchases.

>
> Point of my posting is to demonstrate that people who think that something as
> complex as the plastic banking industry can be reduced to a simpleton
> platitude such as "no cash discounts and no surcharges allowed" are simply
> bullsh*tting themselves.

You are welcome to come by and explain why there are no cash discounts
that I have ever seen from vendors that accept CC in my state.

>
> I want to point out another thing. We independent businessmen are ALWAYS
> smarter, more flexible and more mobile than any bureaucratic machine such as V
> or MC. For example, consider a situation where I needed to process plastic
> for my business but also wanted to offer discounts to cash customers. Enter
> my Frequent Porker customer loyalty card. As it existed, after 9 meals were
> marked off on the card, the 10 one was free.
>
> All I had to do to achieve my purpose of charging a plastic user fee was to
> offer a Frequent Porker discount to my loyal customers but make it only
> effective for cash transactions. Show me the FP card and cash and get a
> discount. It never came to that but I already had my homemade point-of-sale
> system programmed, just in case. Most of my customers were regulars so we'd
> have worked something out.
>
> Mine were low cost, high quality family restaurants. Most of my clientele
> were blue collar workers. I had to compete with Micky-Dee. My prices were a
> little higher but the quality made up for it. Few of my customers used
> plastic. Had I been operating an upscale white tablecloth establishment, I'd
> have gladly taken plastic or cash on an equal basis. My prices would have
> been such that the cost difference would have been buried down in the noise.
>
> Consider this. I could offer a 1 pound USDA aged Prime Ribeye with all the
> fixings for about $22 and change and make a nice profit. Last time I checked,
> that same steak would cost you about $80 at Ruth's Chris steak house. Do you
> think that they minded paying the 35 cents + 1.88% plastic fee? (assuming they
> had the same rate as I did.)
>
> John
> --
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.neon-john.com
> http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
> Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
> Remember, amateurs made the Ark, professionals made the Titanic.
>

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 27 2008 4:27 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In article <NJSdnXL5bcXOXSjVnZ2dnUVZ_j-dnZ2d@comcast.com>, George wrote:
>Neon John wrote:
>> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:08:30 -0400, George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Not doubting you but according to everything I have ever been told it is
>>> unusual. The local store I described is a huge place which includes a
>>> tire center, hardware, furniture, pets, sporting goods etc. The family
>>> that owns it has a total of 3 such operations.
>>
>> It depends on who your processor is. The two major categories are banks
>> themselves and independent processors. I did end up moving my banking
>> because of other issues and at neither bank was I asked to sign a
>> merchant agreement.
>>
>> Sales reps from independent processors called on me frequently. Some
>> had slightly better rates than my bank but the deal-killer that they
>> all had in common was the mother of all contracts. At least 10 pages
>> of about 8 point type that would have taken me hours to read if I'd
>> been able to actually see the text. I'm sure that somewhere in that
>> contract was a clause prohibiting what I did. That was fine. I sold
>> 'em some BBQ and sent 'em on their way :-)
>>
>> I should note that I never did business with a banking conglomerate. I
>> always banked with home-town independent banks. I knew the president
>> and could walk in and chat any time. When they sold out to a
>> conglomerate and he founded a new bank, I moved with him. I'm sure
>> that, say, a Citibank would offer a merchant agreement large enough
>> that I could use it for wall paper.
>
>Tough thing to do. The faceless, monolithic do it our way or the highway
>megabanks own most of the banks and typically the locals are just
>typically speculators who are trying to become big enough to sell out to
>a megabank. So as soon as you build a relationship with them your
>account gets turned over to megabank.
>
>>
>> The major incentive to deal with a home town bank and forego other
>> benefits such as in-network ATMs all over the country >IS< the personal
>> service. I expected them to stand between me and Visa/MC and they did.
>> I'm sure that someone at the back told a V/MC rep that they'd scolded
>> me and that all was well.
>>
>> One other thing that I should note. V/MC aren't all-powerful. In
>> addition to having the anti-trust government types on their backs, they
>> deal with companies much larger than they. They don't dictate terms in
>> a pre-printed contract in those cases. They negotiate terms.
>>
>> Quite obviously the major chain gas stations and truck stops have
>> negotiated agreements that let them give cash discounts. Very substantial
>> ones. Most Love's and other chain truck stops, er, travel centers,
>> have interstate billboards that alternately flash the cash and credit
>> prices. During my year of OTR truck driving, I became quite familiar
>> with those. Sometimes the discount was as much as 12 cents/gallon.
>
>I have never seen that in my state and thats what I wondered about. Also
>I don't remember seeing that in adjoining states. The billboards you see
>have the price for diesel and regular and no mention of a cash discount.
>If you pull into one of those places and push the cash button on the
>pump it merely means you will pay cash with enough markup to help pay
>for the credit card transactions.
>
>> The company that I drove for gave me a fuel card that when used at the
>> truck pump, rendered yet another price, the one that they'd negotiated
>> with the chain. We could use certain chains but not others. "Others"
>> apparently hadn't reached a satisfactory pricing agreement with the
>> trucking company.
>
>Fleet pricing is a totally different thing. We are discussing retail
>purchases.
>
>> Point of my posting is to demonstrate that people who think that
>> something as complex as the plastic banking industry can be reduced to
>> a simpleton platitude such as "no cash discounts and no surcharges
>> allowed" are simply bullsh*tting themselves.
>
>You are welcome to come by and explain why there are no cash discounts
>that I have ever seen from vendors that accept CC in my state.

I occaisionally see and hear cash discounts for gas stations of one
company or another. I also occaisionally see and hear ads for others
saying the opposite - same-price-cash-or-credit.
Not really frequently, more several years ago than now, but I do
remember this occurring in Pennsylvania.

Also, every time I have ever been at a computer show in PA (last time
was a few years ago), many vendors (especially many selling motherboards,
CPUs and memory) had signs with a lot of items and prices for them
and having 2 prices for each - the nominal price and the cash discount
price.

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 27 2008 5:17 pm
From: "Susan $CobbersMom$"

"enigma" <> wrote in message > well, since Wal-Mart contracts for the lowest
prices with
> their suppliers, the goods sold in the store are made, well, > cheaper.
> for things like toasters, it's not too big a deal > (assuming you realize
> a $9 toaster will crap out in less than > a year),

My $9 toasters have lasted substantially longer than the $80 toaster my dad
bought for me years ago which laster a year and a half. Not worth repairing
and not worth buying, IMO.
Sue
Minocqua, WI
Yamaha '00 VStar 650
'04 TW200 (mud = fun)
Kawasaki '95 Vulcan 1500 V#15937
Feminine Protection:
Light days - Glock 27 w/ Crimson Trace
Heavy days - Ruger Redhawk .44 mag

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Experience with flushable wipes in a septic system? Any problems?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/17e37d629582215a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:27 pm
From: jdoe

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 13:19:34 -0400, "EXT"
<noemail@reply.in.this.group> wrote:

>
>"HiC" <brassplyer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:2bb906da-4b08-4add-8082-d4c728addb1f@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>>I see there are these baby-wipes that are labeled as flushable. These
>> in particular are Wal-Mart "Equate" brand. Supposedly safe for septic
>> systems. They're supposed to break down like toilet paper.
>>
>> Out of curiosity, I set one in a container of water. After several
>> days, it seemed to me to be still quite intact, plenty of strength,
>> whereas I've observed that toilet paper will disintegrate within
>> minutes, if not instantly.
>>
>> Is this not a valid test? Will the "soup" in a septic tank will
>> degrade these wipes more aggresively than plain tapwater?
>>
>> Anyone had any problems with these?
>
>They "may" eventually break down in a septic tank, but your experiment shows
>that they do not readily break down, which means a number of them could
>cause problems and may even clog outlets causing backups while one is
>waiting for them to break down. I for one would not trust them being
>disposed by flushing down into a toilet.
>
>Septic tank systems can be expensive to install and even more difficult to
>replace due to increasingly stringent regulations, I would not risk serious
>problems that could result from flushing non-natural organic substances into
>them, especially when a garbage can would take care of the wipes.
the very simple rule to follow with septics is that NOTHING other than
body wastes and water and toilet paper marked septic safe go down into
them, if you allow anything into the system you are asking for
potential problems
__________________________________________
Never argue with an idiot.
They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Questions About Stand Alone DSL
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a4655242e06b438e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 27 2008 3:46 pm
From: krw

In article <GJ3tk.183363$102.33394@bgtnsc05-
news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, aemeijers@att.net says...
> Dave wrote:
> >
> > "Jack" <Windswept@Home> wrote in message
> > news:48b466c4.32859781@news-60.giganews.com...
> >> Rather than get DSL thru Verizon phone co., I'm thinking of using a
> >> local ISP whose people speak English and which has a good reputation
> >> for its dial-up service. The sales guy said that this requires a
> >> stand alone connection which involves an installation fee.
> >>
> >> 1) Do they connect the router/modem to the phone box that's located on
> >> the outside of the house?
> >
> > No, there are two installations to be done. Neither will touch the box
> > on the outside of the house, unless you want a special jack installed
> > just for DSL use. (not necessary, you can use any existing jack)
> >
> > The first is inside your home. You connect the DSL modem straight to a
> > phone plug. (then connect the DSL modem to your computer with an
> > ethernet cord). If you have normal telephones or fax machines on the
> > same line, you will need to install "filters" on those plugs so that the
> > DSL doesn't interfere with your normal phone use. You can install the
> > filters yourself. They are a small box that goes between your wall plug
> > and your phone (or answering machine or fax machine, whatever). This
> > part of the install should take about 10 minutes total, if you are slow,
> > and have to read the directions for 9 minutes. (!)
> >
> > The second installation is done at your local CO, which is equipment
> > outside your home that is owned by the phone company. No matter who you
> > order DSL from, your LOCAL phone company will have to do this part of
> > the install. Basically, the DSL is connected (at the CO) to your
> > specific wire that leads to your house/apartment. This happens outside
> > your home, far away from your property. Again, keep in mind that the
> > PHONE company does this part of the install. So if you order and the
> > installation is delayed, don't yell and scream too loudly at the ISP
> > that you ordered DSL from...the second part of the install is out of
> > their hands. But if the install doesn't happen as scheduled, you still
> > need to call the ISP to let them know, so that they can call the phone
> > company and light a fire under their asses.
> >
> Not always correct. If local telco offers DSL, they do ride the voice
> pair. I have 3rd party DSL, and it rides the 2nd pair, aka the
> yellow-black wires. Their head end is in the building next door to the
> telco, downtown. They lease, from telco, an unswitched pair from my
> house to their server farm. No dial tone on the pair at all. No need for
> filters or any of that junk. It does require a center pair/2nd pair
> splitter or reverse-wired jack for the modem, though.

Seems a waste to run a second pair all the way from the CO. That's
got to cost someone.

--
Keith

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 27 2008 4:57 pm
From: "Dave"

>> Not always correct. If local telco offers DSL, they do ride the voice
>> pair. I have 3rd party DSL, and it rides the 2nd pair, aka the
>> yellow-black wires. Their head end is in the building next door to the
>> telco, downtown. They lease, from telco, an unswitched pair from my
>> house to their server farm. No dial tone on the pair at all. No need for
>> filters or any of that junk. It does require a center pair/2nd pair
>> splitter or reverse-wired jack for the modem, though.
>
> Seems a waste to run a second pair all the way from the CO. That's
> got to cost someone.
>
> --
> Keith

No cost involved. The phone line has (I believe) 3 pairs in it, only one of
which (2 wires out of six) that are used, usually. -Dave

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 27 2008 5:37 pm
From: krw

In article <g94pka$3nn$1@registered.motzarella.org>, noway@nohow.not
says...
> >> Not always correct. If local telco offers DSL, they do ride the voice
> >> pair. I have 3rd party DSL, and it rides the 2nd pair, aka the
> >> yellow-black wires. Their head end is in the building next door to the
> >> telco, downtown. They lease, from telco, an unswitched pair from my
> >> house to their server farm. No dial tone on the pair at all. No need for
> >> filters or any of that junk. It does require a center pair/2nd pair
> >> splitter or reverse-wired jack for the modem, though.
> >
> > Seems a waste to run a second pair all the way from the CO. That's
> > got to cost someone.
> >
> > --
> > Keith
>
> No cost involved. The phone line has (I believe) 3 pairs in it, only one of
> which (2 wires out of six) that are used, usually. -Dave

All pairs are used in the trunk lines. DOing otherwise would be a
waste of copper.

--
Keith

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 27 2008 6:12 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
> In article <g94pka$3nn$1@registered.motzarella.org>, noway@nohow.not
> says...
>>>> Not always correct. If local telco offers DSL, they do ride the
>>>> voice pair. I have 3rd party DSL, and it rides the 2nd pair, aka
>>>> the yellow-black wires. Their head end is in the building next
>>>> door to the telco, downtown. They lease, from telco, an
>>>> unswitched pair from my house to their server farm. No dial tone
>>>> on the pair at all. No need for filters or any of that junk. It
>>>> does require a center pair/2nd pair splitter or reverse-wired jack
>>>> for the modem, though.

>>> Seems a waste to run a second pair all the way from the CO.

That never happens.

>>> That's got to cost someone.

>> No cost involved. The phone line has (I believe) 3 pairs in it,
>> only one of which (2 wires out of six) that are used, usually.

> All pairs are used in the trunk lines.

Wrong, as always. There are always some spares so they dont have
to run a new cable when someone gets a new phone connection.

> DOing otherwise would be a waste of copper.

Leaves running a new line right back to the CO when someone gets a new phone connection for dead.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Unusual Problem With DVD+RW Disc
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4d4160dd09d34750?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 27 2008 5:22 pm
From: Charlie

nospam@nospam.home (Jack) wrote in news:48b46957.33518578@nntp.aioe.org:

> Bought a spindle of Memorex. The Lite-On recorder/player rejected
> five of them outright but the other 20 have recorded and re-recorded
> TV shows OK so far .... until last night.
>
> The disc read OK so I programmed a show. This morning, the timer
> screen said that the recording was "done," in other words,
> successful. But the disc wouldn't play on either the player/recorder
> downstairs or the Philips player upstairs.
>
> In fact, the upstairs player shuts off and says "no disc" and the
> player/recorder downstairs says "invalid disc." Other discs still
> work OK.
>
> I missed a damn good movie. Have you ever heard of a disc going from
> acceptable to invalid while it sat in the recorder??
>
>

All very good suggestions from the group.

I would add:

1.Use DVD-R or DVD+R They tend to be a more stable recording medium then
DVD-RW.

2.Try recording at a lower speed. That can sometimes help in
compatability issues between DVD Drive and medium.

3.Lastly, Why don't you save the program to your hard drive first and
then you can view it or record it to disk. If you have a bad disk or get
disk errors you still have the movie!

Cheers, Charlie

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 27 2008 5:36 pm
From: "Dave"

> I would add:
>
> 1.Use DVD-R or DVD+R They tend to be a more stable recording medium then
> DVD-RW.
>
> 2.Try recording at a lower speed. That can sometimes help in
> compatability issues between DVD Drive and medium.
>
> 3.Lastly, Why don't you save the program to your hard drive first and
> then you can view it or record it to disk. If you have a bad disk or get
> disk errors you still have the movie!
>
> Cheers, Charlie

I could be wrong, but I thought he was asking about a standalone DVD
recorder, not one mounted in a computer. But your suggestion still has
merit. I wouldn't use a DVD recorder without a hard drive. The OP might
benefit from an upgrade. -Dave

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Separate hot water heater rather than off the furnace
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/970a1e327b6d9cdb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 27 2008 5:51 pm
From: Charlie

Raff <raff1717@comcast.net> wrote in news:1daac085-f048-4c73-93c7-
54c984b22e29@56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com:

> I have an oil fired steam heat furnace with the hot water off the
> furnace. Considering the price of oil is it worth it to switch to
> electric hot water rather than the hot water supplied by the furnace?

If you choose an electric tankless model, be aware that you may have to
upgrade your electrical service. The one I saw at HD required two 40 amp
240 electrical circuits.-Charlie

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 27 2008 6:35 pm
From: "Lou"

<melee5@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:309f7743-67ab-4bcc-8464-da2fd22b51f5@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...

>Lou, I'm afraid you are just what they are looking for, someone who
>thinks he is informed but sadly is not. How would you recalculate the
>$659 dollar figure if the tankless were the same price or cheaper than
>the standard water heater?

I'm not in the market for a water heater. If I was, what I posted
illustrates the kind of thinking I'd go through to help judge the relative
worth of various options, but no way would I choose a heater on the basis of
a five minute web search.

Tank heaters have an energy guide label. If tankless heaters do, I haven't
seen them. It makes me somewhat wary - if tankless systems are really
significantly cheaper to operate, or significantly cheaper over the
appliance life cycle, you'd think that hard numbers would be available all
over the place - but I don't much in the way of real numbers.

>Back when, it was tankless.org and I know I paid $300 for a Bosh 1000P
>model, I see now it's a different url and they don't sell directly to
>the public anymore but if you care to deal in factory refurbished
>units you can have a point of use electric for less than $200 TODAY.
>I'll leave it to you to as homework find this bargin for yourself.
>And recalculate that 7 year thing you were talking about.
>http://www.boschhotwater.com/

I assume you're referring to Bosch, not Bosh. I'm more than willing to be
convinced - after all, the tankless idea seems sensible - but that's not
enough data to do it.

A brand new Bosch AE12 point of use electric tankless can be had for
$269.95, refurbished are $60 less. A new 1000P-NG (natural gas) runs $349.95
(and what's a standing pilot doing in a supposedly efficient appliance?).
The refurbished electric is pretty close to the $200 you mention. Of
course, it must be hardwired for 240 volt service. I'm not quite sure what
the definition of point of use is, but in my house there are three baths,
one kitchen, and one laundry room. That sounds like five units, which comes
to over $1000 for the refurbished units and $1350 for the new before
installation costs for plumbing and wiring. (If point of use means each hot
water delivery pipe, in my case that would be 10 units, one to each sink,
shower, the dishwasher, and the washing machine.) The natural gas model
would run just under $1750. Installation would mean running gas plumbing
all over the house, and the installation of 4 inch double wall vents at each
location - no idea what that would cost, but I'll bet it would double the
overall cost.

The electric unit will raise the water temperature 55 degrees at a flow rate
of 1.5 gpm - that sounds like a pretty cool shower with a 2.5 gpm
showerhead. It'll do 70 degrees at a flow rate of 0.75 gpm, but that sounds
like a pretty spare shower to me. The gas unit provides a bigger
temperature increase - at least you'd probably be able to take a decent
shower.

Nowhere do I see anything explicit on operating costs for these things -
maybe the elimination of standby losses make the high installation cost
worth it, but in the absence of data, how do you make that evaluation? To
some people, the trade offs may be worth it. If I had a sink at the end of
a long plumbing run it might be worth it for that one sink. But at first
blush, fitting up a year round family dwelling this way doesn't look like
any bargain.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Another good product/deal GONE!!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/fc8079daae81d3bd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 27 2008 9:30 pm
From: "Anthony Diodati"

"DemoDisk" <packrat@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:2a-dnXDKCISseynVnZ2dnUVZ_vjinZ2d@yournetplus.com...
>
> "Anthony Diodati" <mrbreezeet1NO SPAM@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:g8s92v$n03$1@aioe.org...
>> Dollar General brand paper towels, cost $1.00.
>> Used to be a damm good product. Just brought a roll today, they are
> not
>> worth a DAMM!
>> Knew when they changed the wrapper, then picked it up, seemed lighter.
>> Got it home, they are smaller and thinner. Again, not worth a DAMM!
>> You can't get a good deal on nothing anymore.
>>
>> Ate at Wendy's today, got the jr. cheeseburger. Those things used to
> be
>> pretty good.
>> Now I swear, they are making the patties thinner. Looks to be about
> 1/8"
>> thick.
>> Last time I was there, I got a 1/4 pounder single, looked like the
> patties
>> you USED to get on the jr. cheeseburger.
>> What a world anymore!!
>> Tony
>
> Wal-Mart's canned tuna re-appeared on its usual shelf after a mysterious
> abscence of about two weeks. After buying several at the usual price, I
> noticed they're now FIVE ounce cans, instead of six.

Yea, I see My wal- mart(don't know about all of them) no longer has there
version of miracle whip. I liked it better than miracle whip.
Tony

==============================================================================

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "misc.consumers.frugal-living"
group.

To post to this group, visit http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to misc.consumers.frugal-living+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

To change the way you get mail from this group, visit:
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/subscribe?hl=en

To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to abuse@googlegroups.com

==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com?hl=en

Frugal Living

Blog Archive

Wednesday, August 27, 2008

25 new messages in 11 topics - digest

No comments: