Frugal Living: 9 new messages in 7 topics

Thursday, August 28, 2008

9 new messages in 7 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Separate hot water heater rather than off the furnace - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/970a1e327b6d9cdb?hl=en
* Questions About Stand Alone DSL - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a4655242e06b438e?hl=en
* Vote for John McCain.. a mans man...not some pointy nose, smart guy. - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4f41a0c9e221cb6f?hl=en
* Experience with flushable wipes in a septic system? Any problems? - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/17e37d629582215a?hl=en
* NIKE AIR JORDAN 6 Rings & AIR FORCE 1, JORDAN 4 FUSION, KICKS JORDAN 14 NIKE
- 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e2071bdd3d1232fd?hl=en
* Defense: Woman too obese to kill nephew - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7a462b958e5ce1ed?hl=en
* Blancpain Le Brassus Mens Watch 4276.3642A.55B Recommendation Discount
Watches - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/341a8f91145d02fb?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Separate hot water heater rather than off the furnace
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/970a1e327b6d9cdb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 27 2008 6:35 pm
From: "Lou"

<melee5@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:309f7743-67ab-4bcc-8464-da2fd22b51f5@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...

>Lou, I'm afraid you are just what they are looking for, someone who
>thinks he is informed but sadly is not. How would you recalculate the
>$659 dollar figure if the tankless were the same price or cheaper than
>the standard water heater?

I'm not in the market for a water heater. If I was, what I posted
illustrates the kind of thinking I'd go through to help judge the relative
worth of various options, but no way would I choose a heater on the basis of
a five minute web search.

Tank heaters have an energy guide label. If tankless heaters do, I haven't
seen them. It makes me somewhat wary - if tankless systems are really
significantly cheaper to operate, or significantly cheaper over the
appliance life cycle, you'd think that hard numbers would be available all
over the place - but I don't much in the way of real numbers.

>Back when, it was tankless.org and I know I paid $300 for a Bosh 1000P
>model, I see now it's a different url and they don't sell directly to
>the public anymore but if you care to deal in factory refurbished
>units you can have a point of use electric for less than $200 TODAY.
>I'll leave it to you to as homework find this bargin for yourself.
>And recalculate that 7 year thing you were talking about.
>http://www.boschhotwater.com/

I assume you're referring to Bosch, not Bosh. I'm more than willing to be
convinced - after all, the tankless idea seems sensible - but that's not
enough data to do it.

A brand new Bosch AE12 point of use electric tankless can be had for
$269.95, refurbished are $60 less. A new 1000P-NG (natural gas) runs $349.95
(and what's a standing pilot doing in a supposedly efficient appliance?).
The refurbished electric is pretty close to the $200 you mention. Of
course, it must be hardwired for 240 volt service. I'm not quite sure what
the definition of point of use is, but in my house there are three baths,
one kitchen, and one laundry room. That sounds like five units, which comes
to over $1000 for the refurbished units and $1350 for the new before
installation costs for plumbing and wiring. (If point of use means each hot
water delivery pipe, in my case that would be 10 units, one to each sink,
shower, the dishwasher, and the washing machine.) The natural gas model
would run just under $1750. Installation would mean running gas plumbing
all over the house, and the installation of 4 inch double wall vents at each
location - no idea what that would cost, but I'll bet it would double the
overall cost.

The electric unit will raise the water temperature 55 degrees at a flow rate
of 1.5 gpm - that sounds like a pretty cool shower with a 2.5 gpm
showerhead. It'll do 70 degrees at a flow rate of 0.75 gpm, but that sounds
like a pretty spare shower to me. The gas unit provides a bigger
temperature increase - at least you'd probably be able to take a decent
shower.

Nowhere do I see anything explicit on operating costs for these things -
maybe the elimination of standby losses make the high installation cost
worth it, but in the absence of data, how do you make that evaluation? To
some people, the trade offs may be worth it. If I had a sink at the end of
a long plumbing run it might be worth it for that one sink. But at first
blush, fitting up a year round family dwelling this way doesn't look like
any bargain.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Questions About Stand Alone DSL
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a4655242e06b438e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 27 2008 6:49 pm
From: krw

In article <6hmcctFmu6ckU1@mid.individual.net>,
rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com says...
> krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
> > In article <g94pka$3nn$1@registered.motzarella.org>, noway@nohow.not
> > says...
> >>>> Not always correct. If local telco offers DSL, they do ride the
> >>>> voice pair. I have 3rd party DSL, and it rides the 2nd pair, aka
> >>>> the yellow-black wires. Their head end is in the building next
> >>>> door to the telco, downtown. They lease, from telco, an
> >>>> unswitched pair from my house to their server farm. No dial tone
> >>>> on the pair at all. No need for filters or any of that junk. It
> >>>> does require a center pair/2nd pair splitter or reverse-wired jack
> >>>> for the modem, though.
>
> >>> Seems a waste to run a second pair all the way from the CO.
>
> That never happens.
>
> >>> That's got to cost someone.
>
> >> No cost involved. The phone line has (I believe) 3 pairs in it,
> >> only one of which (2 wires out of six) that are used, usually.
>
> > All pairs are used in the trunk lines.
>
> Wrong, as always. There are always some spares so they dont have
> to run a new cable when someone gets a new phone connection.

No, Ronnie there are NOT always spares. Sometimes they've already
been used and the telco starts using "pair gain" techniques. Though
this is hardly the point here, idiot.

> > DOing otherwise would be a waste of copper.
>
> Leaves running a new line right back to the CO when someone gets a new phone connection for dead.

You truly are an idiot, Ronnie.

--
Keith

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 27 2008 8:01 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Some gutless fuckwit desperately cowering behind
krw <krw@att.biz> desperately attempted to bullshit its way out
of its predicament and fooled absolutely no one at all, as always.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 27 2008 8:19 pm
From: Bill

Jack wrote:
>
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 03:08:43 GMT, Bill <billrubin@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
> >Jack wrote:
> >>
> >> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 00:24:46 GMT, Bill <billrubin@prodigy.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Just order it from Verizon (and take advantage of their current
> >> >deal to give you the first 6 months free, be sure to ask for
> >> >it).
> >>
> >> Huh?
> >>
> >> The Internet offer is for the first month free and then $19.99
> >> monthly.
> >>
> >> The telephone offer is for no months free and $21.95 monthly.
> >>
> >> They'll tell me to go ______ myself.
> >
> >Check out this discussion on Fatwallet:
> >
> >http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/topic_view.php?catid=18&threadid=853672
> >
> >Worst case they'll say "Huh?" Best case they'll look it up and
> >tell you that you qualify.
> >
> >If you choose not to believe me, be my guest. Nice to see you
> >ignored the rest of my post.
> >
> >BTW, existing customers out of contract can get a similar deal,
> >5 months free.
> >
> >Bill
>
> You think that I haven't dialed-in my no. at the Verizon site? No
> such offer was forthcoming.

Well then call and tell them that you've heard that this offer
is available and that you want it. I don't know how much more
proof I have to give you before you believe me that the deal
DOES exist.

> As for the rest of your earlier post .... I know that many people use
> Verizon DSL but the % of online complaints exceed those pertaining to
> dial-up. I'm not tech-savvy and have to rely on support. Hell, even
> the Verizon telephone saleswoman was snotty and didn't seem to care
> whether I signed-up.

Probably because you asked so many stupid questions and kept
acting like you were the first person to ever sign up for DSL.
The odds are that your DSL will work fine and all of this
worrying will have been a waste. My 80 year old father installed
DSL and has no problems with it.

And you're always going to be able to find people complaining if
you look for them. I'm surprised there are many Verizon dialup
users anymore so comparing the complaint numbers is really
meaningless.

Bill

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Vote for John McCain.. a mans man...not some pointy nose, smart guy.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4f41a0c9e221cb6f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 27 2008 6:54 pm
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <6Ebtk.10032$4s1.4134@newsfe06.iad>,
clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:

> Shawn Hirn wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Considering that both candidates are putting out proposals that directly
> >effect our wallets if they come to pass, this is an appropriate topic
> >here. For example, I find McCain's proposal (which is the same as
> >Bush's) to tax employer health benefits a very bad idea. Republicans
> >like to bash Democrats for being big tax fans, but McCain's plan would
> >cost me thousands of dollars and potentially make it impossible for me
> >to get a health care plan that comes anywhere near as close to the
> >quality of the plan my employer provides now.
> >
> >
>
> I hadn't heard that McCain wants to curtail the medical welfare for the
> wealthy.
>
> I've always appreciated having that $10-12k/yr in tax free benefits, but
> wondered why it was primarily a perk just for the upper income groups.
>
> On the other hand, shouldn't all income be taxed? It never seemed just
> for the lower income groups to typically pay their medical using
> after-tax money while the upper income groups typically get nearly free
> health care that is tax free. Why should medical benefits be treated
> any different from earned income?

Upper income people aren't the only beneficiaries of employee-sponsored
healthcare plans. Medical care is not income, it is essential to our
survival, along with some other things, which is why we already get a
personal deduction right off the top on our income to cover basic living
expenses beyond health care.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Experience with flushable wipes in a septic system? Any problems?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/17e37d629582215a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 27 2008 6:58 pm
From: Tony Hwang

HiC wrote:
> I see there are these baby-wipes that are labeled as flushable. These
> in particular are Wal-Mart "Equate" brand. Supposedly safe for septic
> systems. They're supposed to break down like toilet paper.
>
> Out of curiosity, I set one in a container of water. After several
> days, it seemed to me to be still quite intact, plenty of strength,
> whereas I've observed that toilet paper will disintegrate within
> minutes, if not instantly.
>
> Is this not a valid test? Will the "soup" in a septic tank will
> degrade these wipes more aggresively than plain tapwater?
>
> Anyone had any problems with these?
Hi,
Anything is flushable but is it safe for septic system? Call the 1-800
number for that products customer service to be sure.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: NIKE AIR JORDAN 6 Rings & AIR FORCE 1, JORDAN 4 FUSION, KICKS JORDAN 14
NIKE
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e2071bdd3d1232fd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 27 2008 7:05 pm
From: elevatingshoes@yahoo.cn

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Defense: Woman too obese to kill nephew
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7a462b958e5ce1ed?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 27 2008 7:54 pm
From: NA

In article <Xns9B079CEA5F486lkajehoriuasldfjknak@207.115.17.102>,
Bluuuue Rajah <Bluuuuue@Rajah.> wrote:

> larry@nowhere.net (Larry) wrote in
> news:20080827183121.8A7094E5B3@outpost.zedz.net:
>
> > EDINBURG, Texas (AP) -- A nearly half-ton Texas woman charged in the
> > death of her toddler nephew couldn't have beaten the boy to death
> > because of her limited movement from weight problems, her attorney
> > said Tuesday.
>
> What if the kid came within arms length?

Imagine how fat her arms are. She most have almost zero mobility in her
arms.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Blancpain Le Brassus Mens Watch 4276.3642A.55B Recommendation Discount
Watches
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/341a8f91145d02fb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Aug 27 2008 9:12 pm
From: Omega

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Thursday, August 28, 2008

9 new messages in 7 topics - digest

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