http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en
misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* CVS Pharmacist calls customer a "Fucking AIDS freak" - 7 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5f6c5d62367cf192?hl=en
* The Birk (bailout)Plan - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7353d0c8c3ba3c4a?hl=en
* How many trillion has the FED already injected? - 9 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a9b52a8a6b700372?hl=en
* I'm celebrating because the bailout failed! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8ad3e712cb6e0e31?hl=en
* WHAT NOW? Survival of the fittest! - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f7c466e37ae04ad0?hl=en
* Math on the bailout doesn't add up... - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3213ff522966e10e?hl=en
* Classic Documentary: The Money Masters - How International Bankers Gained
Control of America - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/66e69394e8306a50?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: CVS Pharmacist calls customer a "Fucking AIDS freak"
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5f6c5d62367cf192?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 1:18 pm
From: Patriot Games
On Sat, 27 Sep 2008 02:03:25 -0700 (PDT), alohacyberian
<alohacyberian@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Sep 24, 11:24 pm, Patriot Games <Patr...@America.Com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 17:01:02 GMT, chief_thrac...@yahoo.com (Chief
>> Thracian) wrote:
>> >On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 09:32:43 -0400, Patriot Games
>> ><Patr...@America.Com> wrote:
>> >>Yet you FAILED to CITE any...
>> >Do your own googling
>> Translation: YOU were CAUGHT LYING.
>> >>I see. They hide yet you magically know they exist?
>> >There is such a thing as anonymous surveys.
>> Yet you FAILED to CITE any...
>> >>Yes, they NEVER rebelled. They marched.
>> >You gotta be kidding. Watts riots? Long hot summer (1967)? Etc.
>> The Civil Right Act was passed in 1964. The Watts riots were local
>> meaningless bullshit.
>> >>I stomped and boot-beat a few fags but I've never shot one. I bet
>> >>that'll be fun!
>> >No doubt in your gestapo uniform!
>> Down here in South Florida that type of attire is just too hot.
>> >>Where is that "rude awakening...?"
>> >When you least expect it.
>> Translation: It'll NEVER happen.
>> >You are a subliterate goon, typical ugly
>> >Amerikan. No wonder this country sucks so bad.
>> Then take your shitstained ass and cock-filled mouth somewhere else.
>> Ain't NOBODY stopping you.
>Do you talk that way to Sharon?
You're embarrassing yourself in public again, Slope.
== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 1:24 pm
From: Patriot Games
On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 19:14:24 -0700 (PDT), dre <dreazevedo@gmail.com>
wrote:
>> >At best maybe 4% of the population is FAGGOTS.
>> >Fuck off, FAG.
>this should be discussed in sociology forum
Sociology has nothing to do with the genetic mutation of
homosexuality.
It should be discussed in a biology-genetics forum so we could quickly
figure out a test to detect the deviant genetic mutation of
homosexuality in the fetus so we can abort them for the betterment of
mankind.
== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 9:40 pm
From: ezekielk@qwickconnect.net (Chief Thracian)
On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 16:03:43 -0400, Patriot Games
<Patriot@America.Com> wrote:
>>>Bisexuality is an ACTIVITY.
>>So is homosexuality. So is heterosexuality. So is masturbation.
>
>Wrong, wrong, correct.
Of course, you're the expert. Sorry I forgot.
>>>Homosexuality is a GENETIC SEXUAL ORIENTATION.
>>>Heterosexuality is a GENETIC SEXUAL ORIENTATION.
>>So is bisexuality.
>
>Wrong.
Of course, you're the last word. Sorry I forgot.
So, let's see your credentials as an expert on human sexuality. Surely
you can provide the curious with an appropriate link.
[ crickets chirp in background ]
I'm waiting.
--
Final Testament (Gay Quran)
http://www.gay-bible.org
== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 9:40 pm
From: ezekielk@qwickconnect.net (Chief Thracian)
On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 16:16:48 -0400, Patriot Games
<Patriot@America.Com> wrote:
>You DON'T live in America, which is all that matters AS I EXPOSE YOU.
Really, with detectives like you on the job, this whole world would
soon be overcome by Islamic terrorist.
Actually, I really wish you were correct in your surmisal that I
reside in Amsterdam. I deserve better than godforsake AmeriKKKa, a
hideous nation mostly occupied by goons, thugs, and hetero-perverts.
--
Final Testament (Gay Quran)
http://www.gay-bible.org
== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 9:40 pm
From: ezekielk@qwickconnect.net (Chief Thracian)
On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 19:14:24 -0700 (PDT), dre <dreazevedo@gmail.com>
wrote:
>> Steal This Blog!http://www.gay-bible.org/steal
>
>this should be discussed in sociology forum
Be my guest. I'd consider that an honor.
--
Final Testament (Gay Quran)
http://www.gay-bible.org
== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 9:41 pm
From: ezekielk@qwickconnect.net (Chief Thracian)
On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 16:24:47 -0400, Patriot Games
<Patriot@America.Com> wrote:
>It should be discussed in a biology-genetics forum so we could quickly
>figure out a test to detect the deviant genetic mutation of
>homosexuality in the fetus so we can abort them for the betterment of
>mankind.
Thus speaketh the Great Breeder of the Underworld. You every bit as
"patriotic" as Timothy McVeigh. Good show!
You do a superb job of giving heteros a bad name. No wonder this
country's such an unholy mess. Using a majority notion to justify the
annihilation of an innocent minority. Can you say "Gay Holocaust"?
(Probably not, 'cause it's more than one syllable.)
--
Final Testament (Gay Quran)
http://www.gay-bible.org
== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 9:55 pm
From: ezekielk@qwickconnect.net (Chief Thracian)
On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 16:16:48 -0400, Patriot Games
<Patriot@America.Com> wrote:
>Beginning in Amsterdam this is how your message got here: Amsterdam,
>Amsterdam, Ponta Delgada (Portugal), Ibiza (Spain), Rhodes (Greece).
That proves nothing, except that I'm using a news server out of
Amsterdam. Were I using the one from NYC, you'd believe I live in New
York; and were I using the one out of Phoenix, you'd believe I live in
Arizona.
As it turns out, the two from the USA don't work very well, so I
almost exclusively use the own from Holland. Don't you know anything
about how news servers work?
They're just like web servers: I could subscribe to a web host from,
say, France, though I reside in, say, California. A server is a hard
drive dedicated to users...doesn't matter where the users live, in
many cases.
May I suggest you educate yourself about how cyberspace works:
Internet 101: Beginner's Handbook
http://netforbeginners.about.com/cs/internet101/a/inet_handbook.htm
Of course, being a breeder troglodyte, you brain synapses are
naturally sluggish (it's a genetic thing you know), I suggest you
drink in no more than a paragraph or two per week.
--
Final Testament (Gay Quran)
http://www.gay-bible.org
==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Birk (bailout)Plan
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7353d0c8c3ba3c4a?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 2:18 pm
From: "terrable"
"ChairMan" <why4@fu.com> wrote in message
news:48e14fe9$0$4926$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com...
>
>
> The Birk Plan
>
> Hi All,
>
> I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.
>
> Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in "We Deserve
> It Dividend".
>
> To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonifide U. S.
> Citizens 18+.
>
> Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and
> child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up.
>
> So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.
>
Any 3rd grader would tell you that "divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85
billon" equals only $425 a person.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
==============================================================================
TOPIC: How many trillion has the FED already injected?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a9b52a8a6b700372?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 2:58 pm
From: "h"
"Jeff" <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote in message
news:NsidneUBg7_j43_VnZ2dnUVZ_sTinZ2d@earthlink.com...
>> Oddly, I received a credit card offer from WaMu in today's mail. Up to
>> about a month ago, such offers (from a variety of banks) were a daily
>> occurrence ( a noticeable void in recent weeks), but today's was
>> especially amusing as it was from Wamu.
>
> ROFLMAO
>
I received 6 credit card offers this week from WaMu, Wachovia, Wells Fargo,
Citibank, Chase, and BoA. I also received several home equity loan offers,
including one from IndyMac. Haven't at least 3 of these institutions already
"failed"?
== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 2:58 pm
From: "Gregory Morrow"
clams_casino wrote:
> Jeff wrote:
>
> >
> > The Treasury has been stepping in. When the largest thrift failed
> > (Washington Mutual), we are on the hook for that with little chance of
> > recourse.
>
>
>
> Oddly, I received a credit card offer from WaMu in today's mail. Up to
> about a month ago, such offers (from a variety of banks) were a daily
> occurrence ( a noticeable void in recent weeks), but today's was
> especially amusing as it was from Wamu.
As of today Wamu is still running radio ads here in Chicago, slightly
incongruous considering the recent nooze. Even more incongruous is the fact
that the ads tout the large number of their branches in the area, since the
majority of them will be apparently be closed. At first I thought these ads
were a parody, but apparently not.
It's amazing the number of "storefront" bank branches have sprouted up in
the last several years. The Wamu down the street here is sandwiched between
a Radio Snack and take - out salad place, this "bank" until last autumn was
a nail salon...
--
Best
Greg
== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 3:53 pm
From: TruthTeller@nospam.net
In <6kf7moF7je4lU1@mid.individual.net>, on 10/01/2008
at 03:58 AM, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> said:
>TruthTeller@nospam.net wrote:
>> In <D9oEk.7329$891.5626@newsfe07.iad>, on 09/30/2008
>> at 07:35 AM, clams_casino <Petergriffin@Drunkinclam.com> said:
>>
>>
>>
>>> TruthTeller@nospam.net wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The basic problem here is that too many people don't understand the
>>>>> seriousness of the situation.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We can fix that when if and when it arrives. There is no reason to
>>>> bail out the rich when they refuse to pay the fiddler with their
>>>> money.
>>>>
>>
>>
>>> The fallacy is that the wealthy will generally survive a depression.
>>> They may lose 3/4 of their wealth, but they will remain wealthy. The
>>> poor will also remain generally untouched. It's the middle and upper
>>> middle classes that have the most to lose.
>>
>> Don't worry about it son. The people are going to throw the right
>> wing out of office in November. The people will be taken care of in
>> the end. The hell with the greedy, stupid crooks that caused the
>> problem.
>>
>> Frankly I wouldn't be surprised to find bush and the right wing know
>> this and have exaggerated the situation, hoping the congress would be
>> stupid enough to blow all the money on the rich so they could nothing
>> for the People come Jan.
>They cant have exaggerated the situation when we have seen operations
>like Lehmans that had been around for 150 years and which survived the
>great depression fine, sink beneath the waves. And operations like WAMU
>and Wachovia implode very spectacularly indeed.
They are speculators, or banks that can't borrow from other banks because
no one trusts their data. Let them fall for their sins.
== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 4:01 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
TruthTeller@nospam.net wrote:
> In <6kf7moF7je4lU1@mid.individual.net>, on 10/01/2008
> at 03:58 AM, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> said:
>
>
>
>> TruthTeller@nospam.net wrote:
>>> In <D9oEk.7329$891.5626@newsfe07.iad>, on 09/30/2008
>>> at 07:35 AM, clams_casino <Petergriffin@Drunkinclam.com> said:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> TruthTeller@nospam.net wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> The basic problem here is that too many people don't understand
>>>>>> the seriousness of the situation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We can fix that when if and when it arrives. There is no reason
>>>>> to bail out the rich when they refuse to pay the fiddler with
>>>>> their money.
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> The fallacy is that the wealthy will generally survive a
>>>> depression. They may lose 3/4 of their wealth, but they will
>>>> remain wealthy. The poor will also remain generally untouched.
>>>> It's the middle and upper middle classes that have the most to
>>>> lose.
>>>
>>> Don't worry about it son. The people are going to throw the right
>>> wing out of office in November. The people will be taken care of
>>> in the end. The hell with the greedy, stupid crooks that caused the
>>> problem.
>>>
>>> Frankly I wouldn't be surprised to find bush and the right wing know
>>> this and have exaggerated the situation, hoping the congress would
>>> be stupid enough to blow all the money on the rich so they could
>>> nothing for the People come Jan.
>
>> They cant have exaggerated the situation when we have seen operations
>> like Lehmans that had been around for 150 years and which survived
>> the great depression fine, sink beneath the waves. And operations
>> like WAMU and Wachovia implode very spectacularly indeed.
>
>
> They are speculators, or banks that can't borrow from other banks
> because no one trusts their data. Let them fall for their sins.
Then the entire economy falls too, stupid.
== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 5:54 pm
From: "Paul Popinjay"
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6kfpdmF7murlU1@mid.individual.net...
> TruthTeller@nospam.net wrote:
>>
>> They are speculators, or banks that can't borrow from other banks
>> because no one trusts their data. Let them fall for their sins.
>
> Then the entire economy falls too, stupid.
I don't understand why you have to call TruthTeller "stupid". Are you a
teen ager? It is refreshing to have new points of view such as
TruthTeller's and your own contributing to our newsgroup here at
rec.gambling.poker. Although our group is composed of poker players, we are
all real people with real concerns about what is to become of our economy.
I for one am very interested in hearing what TruthTeller has to say and I'd
like to be able to read your conversation without having to wade through
juvenile insults. Also, it is a responsibility I have taken upon myself as
Assistant Coordinator to keep the discourse flowing smoothly on our group.
Please continue, Rod, but try to be more courteous.
Thank you,
-Paul Popinjay
Asst. Coordinator Rec.Gambling.Poker
== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 7:28 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
Paul Popinjay <paulpopinjay[nospam]@sbcglobal.net> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> TruthTeller@nospam.net wrote
>>> They are speculators, or banks that can't borrow from other banks
>>> because no one trusts their data. Let them fall for their sins.
>> Then the entire economy falls too, stupid.
> I don't understand why you have to call TruthTeller "stupid".
I call a spade a spade and a stupid a stupid, stupid.
== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 7:41 pm
From: "Beldin the Sorcerer"
"Paul Popinjay" <paulpopinjay[nospam]@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:cUzEk.2137$YU2.1533@nlpi066.nbdc.sbc.com...
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:6kfpdmF7murlU1@mid.individual.net...
>> TruthTeller@nospam.net wrote:
>
>>>
>>> They are speculators, or banks that can't borrow from other banks
>>> because no one trusts their data. Let them fall for their sins.
>>
>> Then the entire economy falls too, stupid.
>
> I don't understand why you have to call TruthTeller "stupid".
Because he is.
Are you a
> teen ager?
Does the guy need to be a teen to see stupidity?
It is refreshing to have new points of view such as
> TruthTeller's and your own contributing to our newsgroup here at
> rec.gambling.poker. Although our group is composed of poker players, we
> are all real people with real concerns about what is to become of our
> economy. I for one am very interested in hearing what TruthTeller has to
> say and I'd like to be able to read your conversation without having to
> wade through juvenile insults.
Didn't you recently say "Fuck you" to someone?
Also, it is a responsibility I have taken upon myself as
> Assistant Coordinator to keep the discourse flowing smoothly on our group.
> Please continue, Rod, but try to be more courteous.
>
So post a list of acceptable insults for us, Paullie.
== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 8:06 pm
From: "Paul Popinjay"
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6kg5i4F7ofsdU1@mid.individual.net...
> Paul Popinjay <paulpopinjay[nospam]@sbcglobal.net> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> TruthTeller@nospam.net wrote
>
>>>> They are speculators, or banks that can't borrow from other banks
>>>> because no one trusts their data.
>>> Then the entire economy falls too, stupid.
>
>> I don't understand why you have to call TruthTeller "stupid".
>
> I call a spade a spade
Rod, I'd like to see you respond a little more in point to TruthTeller's
challenges. I think he's put a lot of thought into it and much of what he
says sounds quite believable to me. By the way, Rod. I took the liberty of
checking your posting history and I couldn't help but notice that there is
no confirmation number in the upper righthand corner. Yes, the box is
there, but it's just empty. There's nothing in it.
Rod, you seem to be one of the more reasonable of the new posters on
rec.gambling.poker. What is it exactly that you disagree with TruthTeller
about? I'd like to hear what you have to say. Also, Rod, please contact
the Senior Coordinator and get the confirmation number straightened out by
just following the instructions and clicking on the link in his reply email
to you. It's quick and simple. After that, you will be good to go. When
do you think the economic situation is going to turn around? Is it a
hopeless future unless a third party gets into the White House?
Thank you,
-Paul Popinjay
Asst. Coordinator, Rec.Gambling.Poker
== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 10:16 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
Paul Popinjay <paulpopinjay[nospam]@sbcglobal.net> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Paul Popinjay <paulpopinjay[nospam]@sbcglobal.net> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> TruthTeller@nospam.net wrote
>>>>> They are speculators, or banks that can't borrow from other banks because no one trusts their data.
>>>> Then the entire economy falls too, stupid.
>>> I don't understand why you have to call TruthTeller "stupid".
>> I call a spade a spade
> Rod, I'd like to see you respond a little more in point to TruthTeller's challenges.
Doesnt matter what you would like.
> I think he's put a lot of thought into it
Nope, just the usual mindless thoughtless silly stuff.
> and much of what he says sounds quite believable to me.
More fool you.
> By the way, Rod. I took the liberty of checking your posting history and I couldn't help but notice that there is no
> confirmation number in the upper righthand corner. Yes, the box is there, but it's just empty. There's nothing in it.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you dont have a clue about what usenet is about.
> Rod, you seem to be one of the more reasonable of the new posters on rec.gambling.poker.
I am not a poster on rec.gambling.poker.
> What is it exactly that you disagree with TruthTeller about? I'd like to hear what you have to say.
I did, and that is still in the quoting at the top.
> Also, Rod, please contact the Senior Coordinator and get the confirmation number straightened out by just following
> the instructions and clicking on the link in his reply email to you. It's quick and simple. After that, you will be
> good to go.
I have been good to go for decades thanks.
> When do you think the economic situation is going to turn around?
Really depends on whether the bailout gets thru Congress, and the detail of what gets thru if it does.
> Is it a hopeless future unless a third party gets into the White House?
Nope, whoever gets into the White House, Congress will eventually get a clue if the economy tanks completely.
We survived the great depression, two world wars, the cold war etc etc etc and will survive this fiasco too.
There may well be considerable damage to the economy before it gets fixed tho,
particularly if the Congress doesnt have enough of a clue to go for the bailout.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: I'm celebrating because the bailout failed!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8ad3e712cb6e0e31?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 4:06 pm
From: SMS
OhioGuy wrote:
> I just read that politicians were getting more phone calls today than
> ever before regarding the bailout.
>
> Yay - that was me! I made a difference! We basically let our voices be
> heard, and told them if they used our money to pay off the companies who
> caused this whole fiasco, then we would be showing them the door in
> about 5 weeks. Today we saw the Republic working the way it should, with
> representatives REPRESENTING the will of their constituents.
>
> I think the bailout as worded was a rush job that would have done very
> little to alleviate the current situation. We simply need to take a
> month to look things over, get feedback from economists, and craft
> something that makes more sense. Something that might actually WORK
> would probably be a good idea, too.
Pelosi was on KGO radio today being grilled by a talk show host about
the bailout, specifically because there are no regulations in the
bailout that would stop this whole thing from happening again. She said
that if they had included such regulations, they would have gotten zero
Republican votes, because the Republicans are still not convinced that
the financial industries need to be regulated, and Bush would veto any
bill that provided new regulations against sub-prime loans or that
provided bankruptcy relief for homeowners. She said that such
regulations and relief would have to wait until after the next president
is sworn in. So basically we need to give the $800 billion to bail out
these corporations, then hope that Obama is elected and that we can put
some new regulations into place that will stop all this from happening
again. Not a very good plan. McCain could still pull this election out
with all sorts of dirty tricks that the Republicans are famous for.
If Bush and Paulson really want any kind of a bailout then they've got
to be prepared to make a lot more concessions.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: WHAT NOW? Survival of the fittest!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f7c466e37ae04ad0?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 5:16 pm
From: Dennis
On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 11:10:37 -0400, clams_casino
<PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>The bailout is not for the wealthy. It's the manufacturing & service
>areas which will feel the effect most.
Banks want the government bailout so that the banks can sell their
junk to the government at 30, or 40 cents on the dollar instead of 10
cents they might get from private buyers. This is why the banks are
freezing the credit market so they can blackmail the government into
buying their bad loans.
Sec. Paulson is watching out for his banking cronies, not mainstreet
Americans.
Dennis (evil)
--
What the government gives, it must first take.
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 10:32 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com
On Wed, 1 Oct 2008 00:16:01 +0000 (UTC), Dennis <dgw80@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 11:10:37 -0400, clams_casino
><PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>
>>The bailout is not for the wealthy. It's the manufacturing & service
>>areas which will feel the effect most.
>
>Banks want the government bailout so that the banks can sell their
>junk to the government at 30, or 40 cents on the dollar instead of 10
>cents they might get from private buyers. This is why the banks are
>freezing the credit market so they can blackmail the government into
>buying their bad loans.
>
>Sec. Paulson is watching out for his banking cronies, not mainstreet
>Americans.
>Dennis (evil)
Yep. The plan for tomorrow is for everyone to call the congressional
switchboard and overload it, along with calling, faxing, and emailing
the congresscritters to support the "no bailout" plan being proposed
by two dems who voted "Hell No!"
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 11:33 pm
From: ezekielk@qwickconnect.net (Chief Thracian)
>>WHAT NOW? Survival of the fittest!
Indeed! Arrogant breeders will lose their shirts, as gays take over
Amerika and outlaw rampant procreation that is not licensed by
community overseers. True democracy shall blossom, as hetero weeds
perish.
--
Final Testament (Gay Quran)
http://www.gay-bible.org
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Math on the bailout doesn't add up...
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3213ff522966e10e?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 5:40 pm
From: "Rob Dekker"
"Jitney" <jtnospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1e130727-4846-4f76-93df-613dac07bccf@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> It is hard to find statistics on the mortgage crisis, so I'm making an
> estimate. There are about 100 million households in the USA, assuming
> 10% are in default or foreclosure, which I think is a high estimate,
> subtracting rentals from the 100 million (if you can refute me from a
> credible authority, I would love to be corrected). Ten million divided
> into 700 billion works out to $700,000 per distressed property, which
> should on the average buy out each property twice. What is happening
> to the rest? I think this is a massive raid on the US treasury, with a
> threat of a Great Depression if we don't pay up, and that isn't even
> counting AIG, Countrywide, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and Bear Stearns.
> Wall Street is stealing more than the Huns that raided the Roman
> Empire, with similar results. And this is not the end. Congress forked
> over 25 Billion to the automakers, the airlines are next, and who
> then? Ben and Jerries? We are looking at a new Dark Ages.
$700 billion / 10 million = $70,000.
But it seems that there IS something fishy going on.
First of all, housing prices are now back to where they were 3 years ago, so only sub-prime mortgages closed in the last 3 years
would be in 'debt' at this point.
The peak of home prices was some 20% higher then where they are now, and average US home was around $300,000 at the peak (if I
recall correctly), so we talking about maximum debt of about 20%of $300,000 is $60,000. This number is definitely on the high side,
since it assumes that everyone bought at the peak of the housing prices (in 2006). The actual average debt will thus be lower than
that, probably around $30,000.
Second, does anyone know how many of these sub-prime mortgages was issued ? And what was the total dollar amount ?
In 2007, 'only' 1.7 million homes were up for forclosure.
In 2006, is was in the range of 400,000.
So we are talking about (so far) at most about 2 million properties.
So it seems that 'so far', there cannot be much more than about $60 billion in debts.
It seems to me that even from that amount, many people will not want to go to bankruptcy, and will find ways to actuall pay off at
least a part of this debt.
So the 'bad debt' must be even lower...
So what is going on with this $800 billion ?
I'm confused.
Rob
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 6:18 pm
From: strabo
Rob Dekker wrote:
> "Jitney" <jtnospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1e130727-4846-4f76-93df-613dac07bccf@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>> It is hard to find statistics on the mortgage crisis, so I'm making an
>> estimate. There are about 100 million households in the USA, assuming
>> 10% are in default or foreclosure, which I think is a high estimate,
>> subtracting rentals from the 100 million (if you can refute me from a
>> credible authority, I would love to be corrected). Ten million divided
>> into 700 billion works out to $700,000 per distressed property, which
>> should on the average buy out each property twice. What is happening
>> to the rest? I think this is a massive raid on the US treasury, with a
>> threat of a Great Depression if we don't pay up, and that isn't even
>> counting AIG, Countrywide, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and Bear Stearns.
>> Wall Street is stealing more than the Huns that raided the Roman
>> Empire, with similar results. And this is not the end. Congress forked
>> over 25 Billion to the automakers, the airlines are next, and who
>> then? Ben and Jerries? We are looking at a new Dark Ages.
>
> $700 billion / 10 million = $70,000.
>
> But it seems that there IS something fishy going on.
>
> First of all, housing prices are now back to where they were 3 years ago, so only sub-prime mortgages closed in the last 3 years
> would be in 'debt' at this point.
> The peak of home prices was some 20% higher then where they are now, and average US home was around $300,000 at the peak (if I
> recall correctly), so we talking about maximum debt of about 20%of $300,000 is $60,000. This number is definitely on the high side,
> since it assumes that everyone bought at the peak of the housing prices (in 2006). The actual average debt will thus be lower than
> that, probably around $30,000.
>
> Second, does anyone know how many of these sub-prime mortgages was issued ? And what was the total dollar amount ?
> In 2007, 'only' 1.7 million homes were up for forclosure.
> In 2006, is was in the range of 400,000.
> So we are talking about (so far) at most about 2 million properties.
>
> So it seems that 'so far', there cannot be much more than about $60 billion in debts.
>
> It seems to me that even from that amount, many people will not want to go to bankruptcy, and will find ways to actuall pay off at
> least a part of this debt.
> So the 'bad debt' must be even lower...
>
> So what is going on with this $800 billion ?
>
> I'm confused.
>
You mean after the original mortgage contracts - which as you suggest
can be paid off for less then $100B?
It falls in the category of bribery, payoffs and theft. Congress and
top flight financial mismanagement does not come cheap.
But $750B is just a down payment. The sum of the various forms of
derivatives being charged to Americans range between 5 and 80 trillion
dollars!
> Rob
>
>
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== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 10:24 pm
From: "Rob Dekker"
"strabo" <strabo@flashlight.net> wrote in message news:1222823347_3197@isp.n...
> Rob Dekker wrote:
>> "Jitney" <jtnospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1e130727-4846-4f76-93df-613dac07bccf@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>> It is hard to find statistics on the mortgage crisis, so I'm making an
>>> estimate. There are about 100 million households in the USA, assuming
>>> 10% are in default or foreclosure, which I think is a high estimate,
>>> subtracting rentals from the 100 million (if you can refute me from a
>>> credible authority, I would love to be corrected). Ten million divided
>>> into 700 billion works out to $700,000 per distressed property, which
>>> should on the average buy out each property twice. What is happening
>>> to the rest? I think this is a massive raid on the US treasury, with a
>>> threat of a Great Depression if we don't pay up, and that isn't even
>>> counting AIG, Countrywide, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and Bear Stearns.
>>> Wall Street is stealing more than the Huns that raided the Roman
>>> Empire, with similar results. And this is not the end. Congress forked
>>> over 25 Billion to the automakers, the airlines are next, and who
>>> then? Ben and Jerries? We are looking at a new Dark Ages.
>>
>> $700 billion / 10 million = $70,000.
>>
>> But it seems that there IS something fishy going on.
>>
>> First of all, housing prices are now back to where they were 3 years ago, so only sub-prime mortgages closed in the last 3 years
>> would be in 'debt' at this point.
>> The peak of home prices was some 20% higher then where they are now, and average US home was around $300,000 at the peak (if I
>> recall correctly), so we talking about maximum debt of about 20%of $300,000 is $60,000. This number is definitely on the high
>> side, since it assumes that everyone bought at the peak of the housing prices (in 2006). The actual average debt will thus be
>> lower than that, probably around $30,000.
>>
>> Second, does anyone know how many of these sub-prime mortgages was issued ? And what was the total dollar amount ?
>> In 2007, 'only' 1.7 million homes were up for forclosure.
>> In 2006, is was in the range of 400,000.
>> So we are talking about (so far) at most about 2 million properties.
>>
>> So it seems that 'so far', there cannot be much more than about $60 billion in debts.
>>
>> It seems to me that even from that amount, many people will not want to go to bankruptcy, and will find ways to actuall pay off
>> at least a part of this debt.
>> So the 'bad debt' must be even lower...
>>
>> So what is going on with this $800 billion ?
>>
>> I'm confused.
>>
>
> You mean after the original mortgage contracts - which as you suggest
> can be paid off for less then $100B?
>
> It falls in the category of bribery, payoffs and theft. Congress and
> top flight financial mismanagement does not come cheap.
>
I agree. The $60 billion in real debt is actual money lost (by the financial institutions).
Since they operate in a $12 trillion dollar mortgage market, I'd say let them carry that burden.
If they can't even manage a $60 billion real debt on a $12 trillion portfolio, and their fellow financial institutions do not want
to bail them out, then let them default, and hang their managers and money makers by their balls, sue them in court, take their
personal assets and throw them in jail for the rest of their life. The real-estate that they got back goes back to the government.
No bail out for these guys.
> But $750B is just a down payment. The sum of the various forms of
> derivatives being charged to Americans range between 5 and 80 trillion
> dollars!
>
Sure, but we don't need to fix all investments !
Most of the economic livelihood of capitalism is the free flow of money through investments.
That means people that borrow money pay interest and people that lend money receive it.
When you invest (for example when you write someone a mortgage) then you ballance the risk against the return.
The sub-prime mortgage was a very stupid investment, since they went out for 1% or so.
There are not that many investments that are THAT stupid.
Besides that, if a financial institution does an investment with someone's money but the risk of that investment is inappropriate
for the investor's risk appetite, the this is actually a crime. So I think that sub-prime mortgage writing is actually a crime under
current law.
We have not seen the last of this...
>
>
>
>
>> Rob
>>
>>
>
>
> ----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Classic Documentary: The Money Masters - How International Bankers
Gained Control of America
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/66e69394e8306a50?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 30 2008 11:30 pm
From: Mason C
On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 05:24:03 -0700 (PDT), "$80 Dollar PC News Network"
bbbbbdfgdfgdgddfgdaj[89ewjifdbnkwe0-wer)_(*$)+__+)_*&^$
pfhfhfhfhfht !
Mason A. Clark http://frontal-lobe.info
book: Greater America in the Age of Rebellion
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