Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 11 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: KFC 9.99 bucket
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5651e6f0a42596cd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 6:40 am
From: Vic Smith

On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 08:23:07 -0500, curly'q <mamay@gug.com> wrote:

>
>You know, it's what you grow up with. I call it the 'Mom's Meatloaf
>Syndrome' I've tasted friends mom's specialties and some of them were
>pretty bad. All the while the family members around the table thought
>they had died and went to heaven.
>
Never really thought about that. I'll keep it in mind when I get
starry-eyed about my wife's cooking.

--Vic

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 10:09 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Vic Smith <thismailautodeleted@comcast.net> wrote
> curly'q <mamay@gug.com> wrote

>> You know, it's what you grow up with. I call it the 'Mom's Meatloaf
>> Syndrome' I've tasted friends mom's specialties and some of them were
>> pretty bad. All the while the family members around the table thought
>> they had died and went to heaven.

> Never really thought about that.

Yeah, he's spot on. I got the same effect when I was sick as a kid. For some reason
I wanted some pears and icecream after an operation and happened to be staying with
some relos who were into canning. Their canned pears were nothing like the commercial
product and I was quite dissapointed with the pears. I've since come to realise that the
home preserved product leave the commercial product for dead.

> I'll keep it in mind when I get starry-eyed about my wife's cooking.

Just dont forget who will be picking the nursing home.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Warning on unplugging to save money
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/df565ab499ce5661?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 7:07 am
From: SimeonArgus

The hot rave today is "unplugging your devices when not in use."

I just wanted to post -- for all of us frugal savers -- a quick word
of warning. You see, this advice is actually one of the top bits of
advice I've found. It really does save a ton of money. But be aware
that this only applies to devices that don't have a physical "kill"
switch.

For example, my computer can be powered on by touching a small button
on the front. That button is waiting to send an electrical pulse to
some internal electro-gizmo to start the boot process. Where do you
think the small button on the front is getting the electrical pulse?
Yep.. it trickles small amounts of electricity. Those small amounts
add up.

Now, take my washing machine, on the other hand. I have to push a knob
in until I hear a "click". That click is the sound of the connection
actually being made in the washer to start the process of using
electricity. While that knob is up, it doesn't trickle electricity, so
there's no need in unplugging it and plugging it every time I want to
use it.

Just a thought to ponder.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hussein Obama's First 10 Executive Orders
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/eef1f93b8617a8e7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 7:08 am
From: TruthTeller@nospam.net

Listen up right wing asshole; There was no market meltdown until the
right thinking of no regulation let greed run it into the ground.

Now stop the lying and driveling. Your nonsense is old and boring.

In <8qGdnXrdCP6d32rVnZ2dnUVZ_rPinZ2d@comcast.com>, on 10/16/2008
at 09:30 AM, George <george@nospam.invalid> said:

>TruthTeller@nospam.net wrote:
>> In <Ru6dnw2d1nhkqwrvnz2dnuvz_hudnz2d@comcast.com>, on 10/16/2008
>> at 08:32 AM, George <george@nospam.invalid> said:
>>
>>
>>
>>> TruthTeller@nospam.net wrote:
>>>> Stop pretending son. The democrats have done nothing in the past months
>>>> to cause the meltdown. its all the result of right wing thinking and
>>>> control.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Sounds like the politicians have you right where they want you. *BOTH*
>>> sides are complicit in the greed and stupidity. It took a lot more than
>>> a few years to get us to where we are.
>>
>> Wrong goober. This is a crisis that comes from right wing thinking and
>> control.

>Nice touch, so you definitely confirmed you only drink blue kool-aid and
>aren't capable of any critical thinking.

>>
>> Stop lying about it and accept that fact that the right wing uncontrolled
>> free-market thinking has destroyed the right wing.
>>
>> ...And its a good think for the world.
>>
>>> If there were a "fire everyone" choice this election I would be first in
>>> line at the polls.
>>
>>
>> There is the next best choice. He's named Obama. You are against that.
>> Thus, proving you are another right wing driveling nut.
>>
>Really? I said that?

== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 7:08 am
From: TruthTeller@nospam.net

Stop telling urban tales goober. people in a lot of rural US areas travel
to larger hospitals for certain treatments too. It has nothing to do with
rationing. That is a right wing greed lie.

In <30gef4t8cmtmmsi2eibqdpru2vif2u8duh@4ax.com>, on 10/16/2008
at 09:24 AM, jdoe <jdoe@aol.com> said:

>On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 19:09:15 -0400, Marsha <mas@xeb.net> wrote:

>>George Grapman wrote:
>>> Why do Americans keep going to Canada and Mexico for their
>>> prescriptions? Do you have a cite showing large number of Canadians
>>> come here for health care?
>>
>>I can't say there were "large" numbers, but over the last 18 years, our
>>open-heart surgery practice has seen quite a few Canadians who were
>>either turned down for surgery or put on a very long waiting list. They
>>were expected to put up with painful angina daily and an extremely
>>limiting lifestyle. Our orthopedic practice also had many Canadians who
>>were waiting for hip or knee procedures.
>>
>>Marsha/Ohio

>long waits in canuckistan is part of the socialized medical plan, it
>called rationing care, and stories like you've related are not uncommon.
>canucks who have the means to pay for their care come to the US to avoid
>the all too common wait lists for procedures that are rationed in
>canuckistan

>__________________________________________
>Never argue with an idiot.
>They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 7:08 am
From: TruthTeller@nospam.net

In <Xns9b3957bfca9ccveeblefetzer@127.0.0.1>, on 10/16/2008
at 01:38 PM, Bert Hyman <bert@iphouse.com> said:

>sfgeorge@paccbell.net (George Grapman) wrote in
>news:jVpJk.3360$x%.168@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com:

>> Why do Americans keep going to Canada and Mexico for their
>> prescriptions?

>They go to Mexico because they can buy drugs over the counter without
>prescriptions. Of course, they often get counterfeits.

>They go to Canada because the foolish Canadian tax payers will subsidize
>the costs of their drugs.

Provide proof of that claim.

Here's betting you lie, whine and snivel instead of owning up to the truth
-- which you are not telling.

== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 7:56 am
From: "Cabot"

"Marsha" <mas@xeb.net> wrote in message
news:gd5t6r$ucr$1@news.datemas.de...
> I can't say there were "large" numbers, but over the last 18 years, our
> open-heart surgery practice has seen quite a few Canadians who were
> either turned down for surgery or put on a very long waiting list. They
> were expected to put up with painful angina daily and an extremely
> limiting lifestyle. Our orthopedic practice also had many Canadians who
> were waiting for hip or knee procedures.
>
> Marsha/Ohio

Marsha,

You don't give a hint of where you are, but we have the same waiting game
in Ohio. For you to imply we don't, is simply false.

Many people come from around the globe, to the Cleveland Clinic. It's not
because they can get in quick, it's because the CC is one of the top notch
hospitals in the world. There is a waiting game there, also.

My daughter was recently admitted to a local emergency room. After all said
and done, it took a wait of 6 weeks, for surgery. I could go on about the
people I know who had to wait , and I'm sure you know quite a few which
have to wait for surgery.

People throughout our State of Ohio, have to wait for operations.

== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 7:57 am
From: jdoe

On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:08:49 GMT, TruthTeller@nospam.net wrote:

>
>
>Stop telling urban tales goober. people in a lot of rural US areas travel
>to larger hospitals for certain treatments too. It has nothing to do with
>rationing. That is a right wing greed lie.
>

so says you, and up to now you haven't gotten too much right, I think
the word of a person who sees people coming to the US on a regular
basis for health care would have a better handle on things than a
radical ideologue like you
__________________________________________
Never argue with an idiot.
They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 8:08 am
From: TruthTeller@nospam.net

Run along goober. You are posting urban myths. I told you the truth and
you come back lying some more.

I have no time for losers. Grow up.

velef41f3a4eq451niacctv85qage33nru@4ax.com>, on 10/16/2008
at 10:57 AM, jdoe <jdoe@aol.com> said:

>On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:08:49 GMT, TruthTeller@nospam.net wrote:

>>
>>
>>Stop telling urban tales goober. people in a lot of rural US areas travel
>>to larger hospitals for certain treatments too. It has nothing to do with
>>rationing. That is a right wing greed lie.
>>

>so says you, and up to now you haven't gotten too much right, I think the
>word of a person who sees people coming to the US on a regular basis for
>health care would have a better handle on things than a radical ideologue
>like you
>__________________________________________
>Never argue with an idiot.
>They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 8:11 am
From: "David Moffitt"

"Cabot" <xfactor@in.org> wrote in message news:gd7knl$asq$1@aioe.org...
>
> "Marsha" <mas@xeb.net> wrote in message
> news:gd5t6r$ucr$1@news.datemas.de...
>> I can't say there were "large" numbers, but over the last 18 years, our
>> open-heart surgery practice has seen quite a few Canadians who were
>> either turned down for surgery or put on a very long waiting list. They
>> were expected to put up with painful angina daily and an extremely
>> limiting lifestyle. Our orthopedic practice also had many Canadians who
>> were waiting for hip or knee procedures.
>>
>> Marsha/Ohio
>
> Marsha,
>
> You don't give a hint of where you are, but we have the same waiting game
> in Ohio. For you to imply we don't, is simply false.
>
> Many people come from around the globe, to the Cleveland Clinic. It's not
> because they can get in quick, it's because the CC is one of the top notch
> hospitals in the world. There is a waiting game there, also.
>
> My daughter was recently admitted to a local emergency room. After all
> said and done, it took a wait of 6 weeks, for surgery. I could go on about
> the people I know who had to wait , and I'm sure you know quite a few
> which have to wait for surgery.
>
> People throughout our State of Ohio, have to wait for operations.

What was the surgery for?

== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 8:53 am
From: professorgunz

Cabot wrote:
> "Marsha" <mas@xeb.net> wrote in message
> news:gd5t6r$ucr$1@news.datemas.de...
>> I can't say there were "large" numbers, but over the last 18 years, our
>> open-heart surgery practice has seen quite a few Canadians who were
>> either turned down for surgery or put on a very long waiting list. They
>> were expected to put up with painful angina daily and an extremely
>> limiting lifestyle. Our orthopedic practice also had many Canadians who
>> were waiting for hip or knee procedures.
>>
>> Marsha/Ohio
>
> Marsha,
>
> You don't give a hint of where you are, but we have the same waiting game
> in Ohio. For you to imply we don't, is simply false.
>
> Many people come from around the globe, to the Cleveland Clinic. It's not
> because they can get in quick, it's because the CC is one of the top notch
> hospitals in the world. There is a waiting game there, also.
>
> My daughter was recently admitted to a local emergency room. After all said
> and done, it took a wait of 6 weeks, for surgery. I could go on about the
> people I know who had to wait , and I'm sure you know quite a few which
> have to wait for surgery.
>
> People throughout our State of Ohio, have to wait for operations.
>
>
>

Um, I don't think we're talking about 6 week waits. I personally know
one Canuck who was put on a 6 _month_ wait for prostate cancer surgery.
Not an apocryphal internet story - a long-time friend of my
sister-in-law whom I know and have spent time with.

== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 9:07 am
From: George

TruthTeller@nospam.net wrote:
> Listen up right wing asshole; There was no market meltdown until the
> right thinking of no regulation let greed run it into the ground.
>
> Now stop the lying and driveling. Your nonsense is old and boring.
>
>
>
>
You are a good example of what happens when someone ODs on blue cool
aid. All you can do is resort to clueless name calling. If you actually
want to convince someone you need to offer well a well thought out
rebuttal not the lame name calling which makes you look silly and
totally invalidates your position.

== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 9:28 am
From: "Rick"

The left have been pushing loans on poor people who didn't have to put any
down payments on mortgages starting with Fanny may and Freddy Mac.
<TruthTeller@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:QVHJk.1418$Rx2.412@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>
>
> Listen up right wing asshole; There was no market meltdown until the
> right thinking of no regulation let greed run it into the ground.
>
> Now stop the lying and driveling. Your nonsense is old and boring.
>
>
>
>
>
> In <8qGdnXrdCP6d32rVnZ2dnUVZ_rPinZ2d@comcast.com>, on 10/16/2008
> at 09:30 AM, George <george@nospam.invalid> said:
>
>
>
>>TruthTeller@nospam.net wrote:
>>> In <Ru6dnw2d1nhkqwrvnz2dnuvz_hudnz2d@comcast.com>, on 10/16/2008
>>> at 08:32 AM, George <george@nospam.invalid> said:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> TruthTeller@nospam.net wrote:
>>>>> Stop pretending son. The democrats have done nothing in the past
>>>>> months
>>>>> to cause the meltdown. its all the result of right wing thinking and
>>>>> control.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Sounds like the politicians have you right where they want you. *BOTH*
>>>> sides are complicit in the greed and stupidity. It took a lot more than
>>>> a few years to get us to where we are.
>>>
>>> Wrong goober. This is a crisis that comes from right wing thinking and
>>> control.
>
>>Nice touch, so you definitely confirmed you only drink blue kool-aid and
>>aren't capable of any critical thinking.
>
>>>
>>> Stop lying about it and accept that fact that the right wing
>>> uncontrolled
>>> free-market thinking has destroyed the right wing.
>>>
>>> ...And its a good think for the world.
>>>
>>>> If there were a "fire everyone" choice this election I would be first
>>>> in
>>>> line at the polls.
>>>
>>>
>>> There is the next best choice. He's named Obama. You are against that.
>>> Thus, proving you are another right wing driveling nut.
>>>
>>Really? I said that?
>

== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 10:03 am
From: "Rod Speed"

George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote
> TruthTeller@nospam.net wrote

>> Stop pretending son. The democrats have done nothing in the past months to cause the meltdown. its all the result
>> of right wing thinking and control.

> Sounds like the politicians have you right where they want you. *BOTH* sides are complicit in the greed and stupidity.
> It took a lot more than a few years to get us to where we are.

Indeed.

> If there were a "fire everyone" choice this election I would be first in line at the polls.

More fool you. You'd just get another crew thats just as corrupt as the current choices,
but with no experience whatever, that the spivs and con men could scam effortlessly.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal air fares still exist
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/baf1b52a87b7d766?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 8:03 am
From: jdoe

On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 06:32:57 -0700, George Grapman
<sfgeorge@pacbell.net> wrote:

>jdoe wrote:
>> On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 11:16:32 -0700 (PDT), Al Bundy
>> <MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Oct 13, 11:18 pm, George Grapman <sfgeor...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>> I wanted to head east for Thanksgiving but the fares were all in
>>>> the %800 to 1,000 range. Kept playing around with the sites and found
>>>> that travelocity had a fare for $450 ($20 more than if I chose to return
>>>> on the Tuesday after Thanksgiving rather than on Monday.
>>>> Non-stop both ways,aisle seats and the red eye going east which is
>>>> always my preference.
>>> I guess so. I just checked Orbitz and found a United flight from
>>> Chicago-New York for $198 round trip with one stop, less for being
>>> over 65. The non-stop price was $256. The dates I selected were
>>> leaving 11/26 and returning 12/2. Of course, I don't know where you
>>> are coming from or going to.
>>>
>>> Los Angeles to NYC on the same dates was $244.
>>> (All taxes included.)
>>> Hope you didn't get hosed.
>> look harder, united sent me their weekly sale list on tuesday ord/nyc
>> 104 each way non stop
> But was it for the period I am traveling,Thanksgiving and from SFO?.
>Thanks anyway but the ticket has been purchased.
>
fares are almost always jacked up for holiday periods
congrats on finding a good fare,
for future travel try my suggestions for finding a low fare.

One thing to keep in mind that these web sites like orbitz or kayak do
not include all the airlines, for example southwest is rarely if ever
is shown on these sites, another example I know is spirit airlines
never shows up on these sites either, so if you know a cheap airline,
in addition to using the big travel portals visit the other airline
sites as well. there are many bargains to be found but depending on
orbitz, travelocity et al may not help you find the best deals
__________________________________________
Never argue with an idiot.
They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: LA times features 5 scams to watch out for during a recession.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/fc0332e7187c32a7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 8:15 am
From: timeOday

catalpa wrote:
> <ultimauw@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ea7e7bd6-89af-4df4-bcba-e11c331ebf37@a19g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>> http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-consumer5-2008oct05,0,5047416.story?page=1
>>
>> of if that link does not work:
>>
>> http://consumerist.com/5059417/5-scams-to-watch-out-for-during-a-recession
>
> Doesn't even list the number 1 scam: "I'm from the government and I'm here
> to help you".

Back in the real world, social security has had an unprecedented effect
in reducing poverty of the elderly. And of the dozens of countries
which outrank the US with lower rates of infant mortality, all have
socialized health care.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 9:57 am
From: "Rod Speed"

timeOday <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote
> catalpa wrote
>> <ultimauw@gmail.com> wrote

>>> http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-consumer5-2008oct05,0,5047416.story?page=1

>>> of if that link does not work:

>>> http://consumerist.com/5059417/5-scams-to-watch-out-for-during-a-recession

>> Doesn't even list the number 1 scam: "I'm from the government and
>> I'm here to help you".

> Back in the real world, social security has had an
> unprecedented effect in reducing poverty of the elderly.

Indeed.

> And of the dozens of countries which outrank the US with
> lower rates of infant mortality, all have socialized health care.

Thats mostly due to a different effect, the very different demographics in the US.

You dont get any significant difference in the infant mortality of say the kids of white engineers for example.

You do however get a hell of a different result with the bankruptcy rates of those with
serious medical problems, particularly those which arent covered by medicare and medicaid.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: www.paypal2nike.com sell shoes and clothes
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8be2a3d278454265?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 8:34 am
From: zhouzixun07@gmail.com

msn:pay-pal2nike1@hotmail.com
e-mail:pay-pal2nike1@hotmail.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Would you buy this car?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a2eb58b3f859bd39?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 8:36 am
From: "Lou"

"phil scott" <phil@philscott.net> wrote in message
news:3db46b30-2c2d-463c-9e6b-2c7b4d3b7146@a3g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 15, 12:13 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> nicksans...@ece.villanova.edu wrote
>
> > Lou <lpog...@hotmail.com> wrote
> >> James <j0069b...@hotmail.com> wrote
> >>> The mini car produced by Zhejiang's 001 Group was designed
> >>> to target the increasingly serious energy crisis. The group has
> >>> so far produced over 10 such cars and each of them will sell
> >>> for 38,000 yuan (US $5,560).
> >>>http://www.china.org.cn/environment/health_green_living/2008-10/14/co...
> > Sounds good to me.
>
> More fool you.
>
> > When can I buy one in the US?
>
> Never, you watch. Cant possibly meet the safety standards for starters.
>
> >> Let's see, the car will travel roughly 93 miles after sitting in the
> >> sun for 30 hours. Taking nighttime, cloudy days, and seasonal
> >> variations into account, you might average 6 hours of sun a day.
> >> My round trip daily commute is 80 miles, 5 days a week.
> >> Looks like I'd need 5 of these cars just to get back and forth to work.
> > Or one, with a wall plug :-)
>
> Bet it wouldnt even do his range with a wall plug.

the solar panel area can be trippled with fold outs etc... and you
would have grid voltage available to charge also... for china, often
not a lot travel it might work pretty well... in the US we drive way
too much for that.

Hybreds work though. a big deal... adding just a very small gas
engine, say 15 hp, would allow the car to travel at 30 mph almost
indefinitely in a pinch.. with stored solar as a boost you might get a
range of 50 or 100 miles at speeds over 50 mph... that would work.

its a first interation...no doubt the hybed features will be
added...GM had better get their ass in gear or china will eat their
lunch on this. imo

Phil scott (mech/electrical engr)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Pretty hard to believe that signature line - if China eats lunch, at least
part of the reason will be that their engineers are educated enough and
careful enough to write gramatically correct sentences where the words are
correctly spelled.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 9:53 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Lou <lpogoda@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "phil scott" <phil@philscott.net> wrote in message
> news:3db46b30-2c2d-463c-9e6b-2c7b4d3b7146@a3g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 15, 12:13 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> nicksans...@ece.villanova.edu wrote
>>
>>> Lou <lpog...@hotmail.com> wrote
>>>> James <j0069b...@hotmail.com> wrote
>>>>> The mini car produced by Zhejiang's 001 Group was designed
>>>>> to target the increasingly serious energy crisis. The group has
>>>>> so far produced over 10 such cars and each of them will sell
>>>>> for 38,000 yuan (US $5,560).
>>>>> http://www.china.org.cn/environment/health_green_living/2008-10/14/co...
>>>>> Sounds good to me.
>>
>> More fool you.
>>
>>> When can I buy one in the US?
>>
>> Never, you watch. Cant possibly meet the safety standards for
>> starters.
>>>> Let's see, the car will travel roughly 93 miles after sitting in
>>>> the sun for 30 hours. Taking nighttime, cloudy days, and seasonal
>>>> variations into account, you might average 6 hours of sun a day.
>>>> My round trip daily commute is 80 miles, 5 days a week.
>>>> Looks like I'd need 5 of these cars just to get back and forth to
>>>> work. Or one, with a wall plug :-)
>>
>> Bet it wouldnt even do his range with a wall plug.
>
> the solar panel area can be trippled with fold outs etc... and you
> would have grid voltage available to charge also... for china, often
> not a lot travel it might work pretty well... in the US we drive way
> too much for that.
>
> Hybreds work though. a big deal... adding just a very small gas
> engine, say 15 hp, would allow the car to travel at 30 mph almost
> indefinitely in a pinch.. with stored solar as a boost you might get a
> range of 50 or 100 miles at speeds over 50 mph... that would work.
>
> its a first interation...no doubt the hybed features will be
> added...GM had better get their ass in gear or china will eat their
> lunch on this. imo
>
>
> Phil scott (mech/electrical engr)
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Pretty hard to believe that signature line - if China eats lunch, at least part of the reason will be that their
> engineers are educated enough and careful enough to write gramatically correct sentences where the words are correctly
> spelled.

You clearly haven't had much to do with real engineers.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Enjoy total privacy on the internet
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3438e23cf2e616be?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 9:39 am
From: "sfsfloan.cn"

Enjoy total privacy on the Internet nobody can spy on you.
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Please pass these proxy around if you like them. Thank You :)

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TOPIC: McCain's bad temper
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5978b700a07ad85f?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 9:43 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Neil Jones <castellan2004-atnews@yahoo.com> wrote:
> ultimauw@gmail.com wrote:

>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAyK-enrF1g

> It really does not matter who wins the elections because the winner is inheriting a "Inner City" economy.

The main reason is that no Prez has much effect at all on the world economy.

Even FDR didnt, it was mainly WW2 that got the world out of the great depression.

> That's a lot of work.

And not something any Prez can do much about. In spades when the country
has been stupid enough to have an immense national debt before the fiasco.

The two clowns havent been able to come up with a damned thing that will fix anything.

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TOPIC: The Stock Market Explained…
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/561a86fdbc8a0299?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 9:50 am
From: weary flake

abelard <abelard3@abelard.org> wrote:

> >http://www.bnp.org.uk/2008/10/the-stock-market-explained/
>
> looks like another dumb bollix n pricks socialist post....

yeah, I don't get it, except that Britain has too
many monkees. here's some "classic" parable:

http://books.google.com/books?id=gFhBJq8hv44C&pg=PR3&dq=intitle:equality+inauthor:bellamy&lr=&as_brr=0#PPA195,M1

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 9:57 am
From: weary flake

abelard <abelard3@abelard.org> wrote:

Here's how you're .sig reads:

> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
> the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
> good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
> only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
> ------------------------------------------------------------------

'all that is necessary for [to] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [you have] a big stick.
good people do nothing [but] trust actions not words
only when it is funny -- roger rabbit'

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TOPIC: FACE REALITY: Will you and your loved ones survive what's coming? Since
2001, **4X** as many Americans killed by illegal aliens stateside than in both
wars combined
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1efc0b81823cc920?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 16 2008 9:52 am
From: "Rod Speed"

free.tuneup@gmail.com wrote:
> whudson1...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Oct 15, 7:10?pm, "GeorgeWashingtonAdmi...@adelphia.com"
>> <guybanniste...@aol.com> wrote:
>>> ? *WHOEVER* wins the election, friends, things are going to get
>>> worse.
>>> FAR, FAR worse.
>>>
>>> ? With a new economic depression looming ?-- one said by numerous
>>> economic forecasters that will be *much* worse than the Great
>>> Depression, in fact -- murderous attacks by illegal aliens against
>>> U.S. citizens WILL increase dramatically from their already record-
>>> setting levels. Since 2001 4 times as many Americans have been
>>> killed
>>> stateside in their own country by illegal aliens than have been
>>> killed
>>> in the Iraq and Afghan wars combined.
>>>
>>> ? Do NOT be surprised when armed illegal aliens from profoundly
>>> violent cultures cut in front of you on the bread line sometime in
>>> the
>>> future. I myself grew up in a working class "ethnic" New York City
>>> neighborhood during the 1960s but am absolutely *shocked* at the
>>> illegal alien violence I read about every day of the week in
>>> Southern
>>> California where I now live. As Anthony Bologna and his two sons
>>> found
>>> out several months ago in California (see Frosty Wooldrige's essay
>>> below), merely ticking an illegal alien driver off -- and many
>>> millions of illegals now drive all over America -- can result in
>>> your
>>> being murdered in cold blood by a hot-headed "macho" illegal alien
>>> from Mexico or some other "Latin" [sic] country, typically by an
>>> illegal (as in the Bolognas' case) who already had *many* prior
>>> arrests for *serious* crimes (up to and including violent felonies)
>>> in
>>> the U.S.
>>>
>>> ? Barack Obama -- an *extreme* advocate for granting illegal aliens'
>>> most outrageous demands -- is now in the lead to become the next
>>> U.S.
>>> president. After you read the following frightful essay by retired
>>> teacher Frosty Wooldrige do yourself a favor and view the film (made
>>> by a Hillary Clinton Democrat) ?"We Will Not Be Silenced"
>>> athttp://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com/video/index.htmto learn
>>> about the actual Maoist tactics Obama's supporters employed to
>>> defeat
>>> Hillary in the primaries. They are right out of the Cultural
>>> Revolution, complete with actual attacks and bullying of the
>>> elderly,
>>> just as was done in China's Cultural Revolution during the 1960s in
>>> which many millions were killed (Obama's unrepentant Communist
>>> friend
>>> William Ayers was bombing U.S. Government buildings and firebombing
>>> the home of a family with small children in New York City during the
>>> same period.)
>>>
>>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>> SICKENING DEADLY LEGACY OF SANCTUARY ....
>>>
>>> by Frosty Wooldridgewww.frostywooldridge.com
>>>
>>> ....SHIELDING ILLEGAL ALIENS FROM DEPORTATION - In the ?War on
>>> Terror?, four times more Americans died at the hands of illegal
>>> aliens ....
>>>
>>> ?.... within the United States than U.S. soldiers in Iraq and
>>> Afghanistan--for the past seven years. ?Illegal aliens continue
>>> their
>>> own ?killing zone? against Americans in every corner of American
>>> society.
>>>
>>> Three years ago, an illegal alien, after being stopped by police and
>>> released three times, Gomez-Garcia, executed Denver Officer Don
>>> Young
>>> in Denver, Colorado. ?Another illegal alien, Francisco Montero, with
>>> 11 prior stops for drunk driving, killed Dale Englerth in Boulder,
>>> Colorado. ?Yet another illegal alien killed Officer Brian Jackson in
>>> Dallas, Texas last year. Another illegal killed Officer Nick Erfle
>>> in
>>> Phoenix, Arizona. ?Two more illegals ran over and nearly killed
>>> former
>>> Colorado University pro-prospect quarterback John Hessler, sending
>>> him
>>> into a wheelchair for life with severe brain damage. Both illegals
>>> fled back to Mexico.
>>>
>>> Last year, in New Jersey, two illegal aliens executed three black
>>> American college students in the back of their heads as they knelt
>>> in
>>> a vacant alley.
>>>
>>> Last month, in San Francisco, Edwin Ramos coldly shot Mr. Tony
>>> Bologna, 48, and his two sons, Michael, 20, and Mathew 16, while
>>> they
>>> sat in their cars in traffic.
>>>
>>> What did all those illegal aliens hold in common? ?Answer: police
>>> arrested every single one of them multiple times. Many sported rap
>>> sheets five pages long with felonies, drunken driving, rapes,
>>> burglaries, car theft and worse. ?What else did they hold in common?
>>> Answer: every single one of them enjoyed exemption from the law.
>>> ?How
>>> did they accomplish freedom from the law? ?Answer: every one of them
>>> lived and worked in a ?Sanctuary City? within the United States that
>>> gave them immunity from arrest and deportation for their status as
>>> illegal aliens.
>>>
>>> In other words, our laws do not pertain to them. ?They could drive
>>> drunk, drive without a license, drive without insurance, work
>>> without
>>> papers, not pay taxes and live within the United States totally
>>> against our laws. ?As the Southwest Airlines ad says, ?You?re free
>>> to
>>> move about the country!?
>>>
>>> Who stands guilty of all these deaths? ?For starters, Los Angeles
>>> Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, San Francisco?s Mayor Newsome, Mayor
>>> Gordon of Phoenix, Mayor Richard Daley of Chicago, Mayor Bloomberg
>>> in
>>> NYC, and my Mayor John Hickenlooper in Denver, Colorado. ?Every
>>> mayor
>>> of every sanctuary city stands in direct violation of U.S. federal
>>> laws and in direct violation of their oaths of office. ?Every one of
>>> those mayors from the past and into the future stands responsible
>>> for
>>> killing thousands of American citizens.
>>>
>>> But last week, the most horrendous of ?Sanctuary City? killing
>>> crimes
>>> occurred in Denver, Colorado. See story in the Denver Post: ?ICE
>>> holds
>>> crash driver?http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_10401431
>>>
>>> An illegal alien from Mexico, with 16 prior arrests, 11 aliases--
>>> Francis Hernandez, 23, drunker than a skunk on a Saturday night,
>>> drove
>>> his vehicle into a Baskin-Robbins ice cream parlor?killing Patricia
>>> Guntharp, 49, and Debra Serecky, 51. ?But more than the two adults
>>> who
>>> lived two-thirds of their lives, Hernandez killed a little boy,
>>> Marten
>>> Kudlis, three years of age, as he sat on a stool happily licking his
>>> ice cream cone.
>>>
>>> This story turns your stomach. ?It sickens your heart. ?It leaves a
>>> sour taste in your mouth. ?It grinds at your senses. ?It bedevils
>>> your
>>> sense of right and wrong.
>>>
>>> Why do you obey our laws, but our own elected officials refuse their
>>> obligations to serve and enforce our statues? ?Even Colorado
>>> Governor
>>> Ritter gave hundreds of known drug dealers ?agricultural trespass?
>>> that allowed them back onto the streets during his tenure as
>>> Denver?s
>>> district attorney.
>>>
>>> That three year old child Marten never stood a chance against a
>>> career
>>> criminal because Mayor John Hickenlooper offers ?sanctuary? for
>>> illegal aliens in Denver. ?In fact, even more horrific, Hickenlooper
>>> owned the ?Cherry Cricket Restaurant? where the killer Gomez-Garcia
>>> worked when he shot Denver Officer Don Young. ? But it doesn?t end
>>> there--Hickenlooper stood by as another young man, husband and
>>> father,
>>> Justin Goodman died at the hands of another illegal alien three
>>> years
>>> ago?by a hit and run illegal with a five page rap sheet but no
>>> deportation. ?Added to that, Denver suffers 12,000 gang members,
>>> mostly illegal aliens?that Hickenlooper allows immunity from
>>> prosecution via his ?Sanctuary Policy?.
>>> According to Joseph Farrah, World Net Daily, September 5, 2008,
>>> ?Though no federal statistics are kept on murders or any other
>>> crimes
>>> committed by illegal aliens, a number of groups have produced
>>> estimates based on data collected from prisons, news reports and
>>> independent research.
>>> ?Twelve Americans are murdered every day by illegal aliens,
>>> according
>>> to statistics released by Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa. ?If those numbers
>>> are correct, it translates to 4,380 Americans murdered annually by
>>> illegal aliens. That's 21,900 since Sept. 11, 2001.
>>> ?The carnage wrought by illegal alien murderers represents only a
>>> fraction of the pool of blood spilled by American citizens as a
>>> result
>>> of an open border and un-enforced immigration laws.
>>>
>>> ?While King reports 12 Americans are murdered daily by illegal
>>> aliens,
>>> he says 13 are killed by drunk illegal alien drivers ? for another
>>> annual death toll of 4,745. That's 23,725 since Sept. 11, 2001.
>>>
>>> ?While no one ? in or out of government ? tracks all U.S. accidents
>>> caused by illegal aliens, the statistical and anecdotal evidence
>>> suggests many of last year's 42,636 road deaths involved illegal
>>> aliens.
>>>
>>> ?A report by the AAA Foundation for Traffic Study found 20 percent
>>> of
>>> fatal accidents involve at least one driver who lacks a valid
>>> license.
>>> ?King also reports eight American children are victims of sexual
>>> abuse
>>> by illegal aliens every day ? a total of 2,920 annually.
>>> ?Based on a one-year in-depth study, Deborah Schurman-Kauflin of the
>>> Violent Crimes Institute of Atlanta estimates there are about
>>> 240,000
>>> illegal immigrant sex offenders in the United States who have had an
>>> average of four victims each. She analyzed 1,500 cases from January
>>> 1999 through April 2006 that included serial rapes, serial murders,
>>> sexual homicides and child molestation committed by illegal
>>> immigrants.?
>>> All of those illegal alien criminals enjoy ?Sanctuary City?
>>> protection
>>> from nearly 30 major cities in the United States?all in violation of
>>> the U.S. Constitution. (USC 8, 1374, 274, 275, 276)
>>>
>>> What if Mayor Hickenlooper?s family members suffered death, rape or
>>> molestation by an illegal? ?Would he rescind his ?Sanctuary Policy?
>>> in
>>> Denver? ?Would Bloomberg in New York City? ?Would Mayor Gordon in
>>> Phoenix?
>>> A profound depression hovers over me as I write this column. ?What
>>> if
>>> Marten Kudlis had been my son, my only son, as he was the Kudlis?
>>> only
>>> child? ?I find my sense of reason, logic and rational action
>>> defeated
>>> by these men in office, not only as mayors of cities, but all the
>>> way
>>> to the U.S. House, Senate and President Bush himself. ? As we suffer
>>> invasion by upwards of 20 million illegal aliens overrunning our
>>> communities, those men in high office do nothing to stop it.
>>> They not only refuse to uphold their oaths of office, they,
>>> instead--
>>> aid, abet and assist illegal aliens to kill American citizens and
>>> wreak havoc on our communities and lives. ? It?s beyond
>>> comprehension
>>> and it?s beyond sickening. ?Both presidential candidates failed to
>>> breathe a word about it in the RNC and DNC.
>>> We can only wonder if the next victim of an illegal alien kills a
>>> daughter or son of a governor, mayor, senator, House rep or one of
>>> President Bush?s family?would they take action for the rest of us
>>> who
>>> suffer losses daily?
>>> Ask John Hickenlooper why he continues sanctuary city policy after
>>> all
>>> those deaths on his hands?
>>>
>>> Mayor John Hickenlooper, Denver, CO: Call him: ?720-913-1311 or
>>> email
>>> MileHighMa...@ci.denver.co.usThis e-mail address is being protected
>>> from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it
>>> Colorado Governor Ritter: Call him: ?Ph. 303 866 2471
>>> Why won?t he enforce our immigration laws?
>>>
>>> Bob Woodruff of ABC asked input from all citizens concerning the
>>> future of our planet. ?Go towww.earth2100.tvfor a sobering reality
>>> check as to what we face and to what I have been writing about for
>>> the
>>> past 20 years. ?Our ?window? to change to a balanced population and
>>> non-polluting energy diminishes every day we listen to irresponsible
>>> media and thus ignore the blatant symptoms manifesting all over
>>> America and the planet.
>>>
>>> To take
>>> action:www.numbersusa.com?www.thesocialcontract.com?www.fairus.orgwww.proenglish.org?www.capsweb.org
>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?www.vdare.com?www.firecoalition.com
>>>
>>> Become a member of ?Frosty?s Press Agent Corps? whereby you
>>> volunteer
>>> a few hours to send out emails to top TV and radio hosts to offer
>>> top
>>> speakers on America?s overpopulation crisis driven by unending
>>> immigration. ?Email fros...@juno.comThis e-mail address is being
>>> protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it and
>>> receive two informational letters showing you exactly what to do.
>>>
>>> Frosty Wooldridge has bicycled across six continents ? from the
>>> Arctic
>>> to the South Pole ? as well as six times across the USA, coast to
>>> coast and border to border. ?In 2005, he bicycled from the Arctic
>>> Circle, Norway to Athens, Greece. ?He presents ?The Coming
>>> Population
>>> Crisis in America: and what you can do about it? to civic clubs,
>>> church groups, high schools and colleges. ?He works to bring about
>>> sensible world population balance atwww.frostywooldridge.com
>>>
>>> From: Frosty Wooldridge
>>>
>>> This three minute interview with Adam Schrager on ?Your Show? May 4,
>>> 2008, NBC Channel 9 News, addresses the ramifications of adding 120
>>> million people to USA in 35 years and six million people to Colorado
>>> as to water shortages, air pollution, loss of farmland, energy costs
>>> and degradation of quality of life. ?In the interview, Frosty
>>> Wooldridge explains the ramifications of adding 120 million people
>>> to
>>> the USA in 35 years. He advances new concepts such as a ?Colorado
>>> Carrying Capacity Policy?; ?Colorado Environmental Impact Policy?;
>>> ?Colorado Water Usage Policy?; ?Colorado Sustainable Population
>>> Policy?. ?Nationally, the USA needs a "National Sustainable
>>> Population
>>> Policy" to determine the carrying capacity of this nation for the
>>> short and long term. ?Wooldridge is available for interviews on
>>> radio
>>> and TV having interviewed on ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN and FOX.
>>>
>>> Click the link to view the 3 minute interview with NBC's Adam
>>> Schrager:http://www.9news.com/video/player.aspx?aid=52364
>>>
>>> Frosty Wooldridgewww.frostywooldridge.com
>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>> ? ? ?What Would the U.S.A.'s Founding Fathers Do?
>>>
>>> ? If the representatives of the people betray their constituents,
>>> there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that
>>> original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive
>>> forms of government ... The citizens must rush tumultuously to
>>> arms, without concert, without system, without resource;
>>> except in their courage and despair ...
>>>
>>> ? The natural strength of the people in a large community, in
>>> proportion to the artificial strength of the government, is greater
>>> than in a small ... the people, without exaggeration, may be said
>>> to be entirely the masters of their own fate.
>>> ? -- Alexander Hamilton
>>>
>>> ? We in America do not have government by the majority.
>>> We have government by the majority who participate.
>>> ? -- Thomas Jefferson
>>>
>>> ? All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good
>>> conscience to remain silent.
>>> ? -- Thomas Jefferson
>>>
>>> ? Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of
>>> the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe
>>> depositories.
>>> ? -- Thomas Jefferson
>>>
>>> ? No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
>>> ? -- Thomas Jefferson
>>>
>>> ? The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to
>>> keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves
>>> against tyranny in government.
>>> ? -- Thomas Jefferson
>>>
>>> ? As our enemies have found we can reason like men, so now
>>> let us show them we can fight like men also.
>>> ? -- Thomas Jefferson
>>>
>>> ? Don't talk about what you have done or what you are going
>>> to do.
>>> ? -- Thomas Jefferson
>>>
>>> ? Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the
>>> Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state.
>>> ? -- Thomas Jefferson
>>>
>>> ? Do you want to know who you are? Don't ask. Act! Action will
>>> delineate and define you.
>>> ? -- Thomas Jefferson
>>>
>>> ? Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on
>>> does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which
>>> they draw their gains.
>>> ? -- Thomas Jefferson
>>>
>>> ?I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied
>>> corporations which dare already to challenge our government to
>>> a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.
>>> ? -- Thomas Jefferson
>>>
>>> ? I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our
>>> liberties than standing armies.
>>> ? -- Thomas Jefferson
>>>
>>> ? Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of
>>> government
>>> those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations,
>>> perverted it into tyranny.
>>> ? -- Thomas Jefferson
>>
>> Fine article, circulate.

> Fair is fair...what goes around...we are over in Iraq as "illegal aliens" invading their
> country and have murdered close to one million innocent people, 'cause we can",

Pig ignorant lie. Most of those are the result of them killing each other.

> so who are the barbarians?

Those stupid apes.

> Pay back is a bitch huh?

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys.

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Thursday, October 16, 2008

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