http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en
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Today's topics:
* Doorbell always uses electricity! - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3198294a289e9e57?hl=en
* The Next Bank Heist: DEBIT CARDS - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/535b1a94bef90ab2?hl=en
* Is keeping a car 50 years frugal? - 4 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/973c7ade053ebb0f?hl=en
* supreme court to determine obama presidential eligibilty - 4 messages, 4
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/546a49e0512f561c?hl=en
* 533,000 Jobs Lost While Feds Import 140,000 Foreign Workers! - 7 messages, 7
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a1526898a9ebc1d2?hl=en
* Cambodia TEFL - Gap Year, Travel & Study, Paid Teaching Job - http://www.
cambodiatefl.com - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/50e2c17f1bd0f941?hl=en
* Lght rail was Re: Folks, this is a real depression, protect your assets - 3
messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/cb1cc803cf7130ab?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Doorbell always uses electricity!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3198294a289e9e57?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 5:55 pm
From: Andy Energy
On Nov 25, 10:20 am, Dave Garland <dave.garl...@wizinfo.com> wrote:
> Red Green wrote:
> > Probably cost a fortune to make refrigs that could use piped in air from
> > outside. And the further south you are the longer the ROI breakeven.
>
> Yes. I've been thinking of doing that for the last 40 years. It would
> work best if you could build the refrigerator into the house (think
> walk-in cooler, but smaller, or the undercounter fridges found in bars).
> You'd need a fan to circulate outside (cold) air in, and dampers to
> close off from the outside, and a controller to regulate the dampers &
> fan and switch to powered refrigeration when the outside temperature is
> warmer than refrigerator-interior temperature. Ditto for the freezer,
> though even in Minnesota there isn't that long a period when outside
> temperature stays below 0 degrees F. (But outside air could be used to
> cool the coils of the powered refrigeration and increase its
> efficiency.) For that (in Minnesota) you could avoid much of the
> refrigeration energy for maybe 3 months, and get some unknown
> improvement most of the rest of the year.
>
> One side benefit is that if you're building the fridge, you're not
> constrained to fitting insulation within a thin metal shell, you can
> insulate as much as you want. The dampers and the door would be the
> parts that were harder to insulate.
>
> But it does sound like a lot of work to accomplish.
>
> Dave
About 25 years ago I read an article about the guy that built a
supreinsulated freezer with thermal mass in it. He used a heat pipe
to freeze it al winter and it wouel swing through the summer.
Wow this is a long ways from a door bell
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 6:29 pm
From: Red Green
Andy Energy <andyenergy@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:a0d65746-dcf3-4727-b7ef-881a5f162dbb@k36g2000yqe.googlegroups.com:
> On Nov 25, 10:20 am, Dave Garland <dave.garl...@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>> Red Green wrote:
>> > Probably cost a fortune to make refrigs that could use piped in air
>> > fro
> m
>> > outside. And the further south you are the longer the ROI
>> > breakeven.
>>
>> Yes. I've been thinking of doing that for the last 40 years. It wou
> ld
>> work best if you could build the refrigerator into the house (think
>> walk-in cooler, but smaller, or the undercounter fridges found in
>> bars). You'd need a fan to circulate outside (cold) air in, and
>> dampers to close off from the outside, and a controller to regulate
>> the dampers & fan and switch to powered refrigeration when the
>> outside temperature is warmer than refrigerator-interior temperature.
>> Ditto for the freezer, though even in Minnesota there isn't that
>> long a period when outside temperature stays below 0 degrees F. (But
>> outside air could be used to cool the coils of the powered
>> refrigeration and increase its efficiency.) For that (in Minnesota)
>> you could avoid much of the refrigeration energy for maybe 3 months,
>> and get some unknown improvement most of the rest of the year.
>>
>> One side benefit is that if you're building the fridge, you're not
>> constrained to fitting insulation within a thin metal shell, you can
>> insulate as much as you want. The dampers and the door would be the
>> parts that were harder to insulate.
>>
>> But it does sound like a lot of work to accomplish.
>>
>> Dave
>
>
> About 25 years ago I read an article about the guy that built a
> supreinsulated freezer with thermal mass in it. He used a heat pipe
> to freeze it al winter and it wouel swing through the summer.
>
> Wow this is a long ways from a door bell
I have two lighted buttons. I'm gonna burn in Hell for it. I just know
it.
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 10:24 pm
From: Dave Garland
Andy Energy wrote:
> Wow this is a long ways from a door bell
Feature creep :)
==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Next Bank Heist: DEBIT CARDS
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/535b1a94bef90ab2?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 6:00 pm
From: krw
In article <c7b9465e-4696-4ae3-9677-321c3a0e8719@
13g2000yql.googlegroups.com>, rbooth9858@yahoo.com says...
> On Dec 7, 12:34 pm, Vic Smith <thismailautodele...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 10:59:34 -0800 (PST), sarge137
> >
> >
> >
> > <rbooth9...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >On Dec 7, 7:24 am, "hall...@aol.com" <hall...@aol.com> wrote:
> > >> > > As to using credit cards, I'll still use mine whenever possible to
> > >> > > get that reward credit. My debit card pays zilch.
> >
> > >> > I agree. I use my Visa card as much as possible. I pay it off in full
> > >> > each month and I collect points toward air mileage. It also lets me
> > >> > avoid the need to carry around as much cash with me, which makes it less
> > >> > likely that I will be robbed of my money.
> >
> > >> after doing a multi year look at reward cards I decided they arent
> > >> worth the bother.
> >
> > >Same here. With my clean as a whistle credit reports, and near max
> > >FICO scores, pretty much every credit card in the country has
> > >solicited me over the years, multiple times. I've carefully reviewed
> > >every "reward" program. Haven't seen one yet that would prompt me to
> > >change from the card I've been carrying since the early 70s. I see
> > >claims all the time that people net hundreds of dollars a year in
> > >rewards payments. Frankly, I don't believe them. I move thousands of
> > >dollars a year through my credit card account, and haven't found one
> > >yet that would NET me that much.
> >
> > >If anyone knows of a reward program with ALL of the following criteria
> > >please post a link. I'd love to see it:
> >
> > >1. No annual fee.
> > >2. Substantial credit line (at least 15K)
> > >3. Full 30 day grace period from date of transaction.
> > >4. No minimum average balance.
> > >5. Fix APR less than 8%.
> > >6. Includes every penny of all transactions, not just retail
> > >purchases.
> > >7. Pays rewards by check at least semi-annually.
> >
> > I pretty much felt like you did, mostly because I was too lazy to
> > switch the card I've been using for many years.
> > I think I entertained getting a CitiBank card a couple years ago, but
> > said nah.
> > Anyway, Chase started their Freedom card a while back, and I bank and
> > CC with them, so I had them send me that card. That was May.
> > Just deposited a $200 check from the rewards, and there's $45 waiting.
> > Have to hit $50 for them to cut a check.
> > So that was free money. I figure it'll end up close to $300 for the 8
> > months this year I've had it.
> > You can look up the details yourself because I hate reading that crap,
> > but I can tell you it meets or exceeds all your criteria except APR.
> > Don't know what the APR is, because it never affects me.
> >
> > --Vic
>
> I'll give'em a look - thanks for the info.
>
> The interest rate doesn't effect me directly either. Haven't paid any
> in years. But it's a point of principal.
No, it's a point of interest. ;-)
> High volume customers, on
> whom they make major transaction fees, should be charged double
> digital interest if they have to let a balance ride for a short time.
"Double digital"? Why?
--
Keith
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 9:23 pm
From: Vic Smith
On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 18:34:33 -0500, clams_casino
<PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>>
>If you wait until $150, they will send you a check for $200.
>
That's how I got the first $200 come to think of it, and how I'll get
the next.
Regarding the 30 day grace period from transaction time sarge
mentioned, I'm not sure any CC card does that.
AFAIK they all work on billing cycles.
I never carry a balance, so I'm not sure how "grace" works.
Pretty sure that when you carry a balance, most cards I've had
would figure interest on "average daily balance" within the billing
period.
What I do know is that the Freedom billing cycle is about 45 days.
Meaning a charge made at the beginning of the cycle can be
paid 45 days later before without incurring interest - if you don't
have a balance.
--Vic
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Is keeping a car 50 years frugal?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/973c7ade053ebb0f?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 6:02 pm
From: gheston@hiwaay.net (Gary Heston)
In article <georgewkspam-FF6CDA.15425507122008@news.humboldt1.com>,
'nam vet. <georgewkspam@humboldt1.com> wrote:
>It's going on 47 next year. should I keep it? What if I buy a ford and
>they go under. warrantee, parts service?
It's paid for, cheap to insure, and aftermarket parts shouldn't be a
problem if it's a major US brand (as opposed to my '72 Volvo 145).
I vote for keeping it. The biggest advantage is that you can work on
it yourself, instead of being forced to go to a dealer.
Gary
--
Gary Heston gheston@hiwaay.net http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/
"Behind every successful woman there is an astonished man"
General of the Army (four stars) Ann Dunwoody
== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 6:03 pm
From: "Daniel T."
"h" <tmclone@searchmachine.com> wrote:
> "Daniel T." <daniel_t@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > "'nam vet." <georgewkspam@humboldt1.com> wrote:
> >
> > > It's going on 47 next year. should I keep it? What if I buy a
> > > ford and they go under. warrantee, parts service?
> >
> > How much does your 47 year old car cost you over the next year?
> > Over the next 5 years? Over the next 10 years? Compare that to the
> > cost of a new car...
>
> Assuming the OP isn't trolling, I'll bet the 47 year old car was
> built to last and might very well be worth keeping on the road until
> it dies.
What does "dies" mean in this context?
> New cars, particularly anything built in the USA are not worth much.
> When my old Subaru (built in Japan) dies I will reluctantly replace
> it with one built here, but I already know they aren't built as well
> as they were when made in Japan. I've seen the Consumer Reports
> stats.
I'm not so sure about that. Also remember, it is in Consumer Reports
best interest to inflate the differences in quality between
manufactures. If the came out with a report that said that all car makes
were near the same in quality, no one would need their magizine anymore.
== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 8:03 pm
From: "Malcolm \"Mal\" Reynolds"
"'nam vet." <georgewkspam@humboldt1.com> wrote in news:georgewkspam-
FF6CDA.15425507122008@news.humboldt1.com:
> It's going on 47 next year. should I keep it? What if I buy a ford and
> they go under. warrantee, parts service?
You have a 47 year old car. How long have you had it? Does it work?
== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 11:32 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)
In article <Xns9B6DCC19918B5TBAnoonecarescom@87.106.137.111>, Malcolm
\"Mal\" Reynolds wrote:
>"'nam vet." <georgewkspam@humboldt1.com> wrote in news:georgewkspam-
>FF6CDA.15425507122008@news.humboldt1.com:
>
>> It's going on 47 next year. should I keep it? What if I buy a ford and
>> they go under. warrantee, parts service?
>
>You have a 47 year old car. How long have you had it? Does it work?
I wonder if a 47 year old car as of 2008 even has air conditioning
(including any that has conked out). I suspect more likely not, since I
found presence of air conditioning in cars to be selling points and
options for new cars about 35 years ago.
Keep in mind that A/C system in a car has the main good way to defog
windows on cool/cold humid days.
How much are you good for having your car being one without A/C and the
window defogging that is done so much better when the car has a working
A/C system?
(Yes, I am aware that most cars less than 20 years old use the
A/C system to "defrost" the front windshield and such cars that
have a feature to "defog" the rear window do so by resistance heating.)
- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)
==============================================================================
TOPIC: supreme court to determine obama presidential eligibilty
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/546a49e0512f561c?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 6:11 pm
From: "sgallagher@rogers.com"
On Dec 7, 7:44 pm, "Dave" <no...@nohow.not> wrote:
> "JR Weiss" <jrwe...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>
> news:ghhodm$fdj$1@news.motzarella.org...
>
> > "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <der...@hotmail.com> wrote ...
>
> >>>> OK, I found it. No. 08A407. But this suit accepts that Obama was born
> >>>> in the USA and was an American citizen at birth.
>
> >>> And? Again, a citizen is not eligible to be President. -Dave
>
> >> correct. american citizenship does not automatically constitutionally
> >> qualify one to be prez
>
> > However, an American citizen who achieved that citizenship by virtue of
> > being born in the US IS a "natural born" citizen, and therefore meets the
> > basic criterion!
>
> Unless you become a citizen of another country where you can not hold dual
> citizenship.
Only if that other country requires you to go to the officials of your
original country and formally renounce citizenship according to the
original country's laws, and then return to them with proof that you
really did renounce your original citizenship. Otherwise, the fact
that this other country does not allow dual citizenship would have no
effect upon a person's US citizenship.
== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 6:34 pm
From: "Daniel T."
"Dave" <noway@nohow.not> wrote:
> > > > > Different case:
> > > > > http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/12/obama-
> > > > > birth-cer.html
> > > >
> > > > OK, I found it. No. 08A407. But this suit accepts that Obama
> > > > was born in the USA and was an American citizen at birth.
> > >
> > > And? Again, a citizen is not eligible to be President. -Dave
> >
> > So only non-citizens can be President of the USA? You might want
> > to rethink your logic.
>
> You have to be a "natural born" citizen to be President. As I've
> stated before, the (well disputed) birth certificate is a red
> herring. There is a good chance Obama was a citizen of Indonesia at
> some point. If that is so (probably is, but the Supremes will rule
> on it) then Obama is not a natural born citizen of the U.S. -Dave
What do you think "natural born citizen" means if it doesn't mean they
were born in the USA?
If Marie Elizabeth Elg was a "natural born citizen" despite the fact
that both her parents were foreigners and despite the fact that she
spent most of her childhood on foreign soil, why would you think that
Obama is not?
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=307&invol=3
25
== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 9:35 pm
From: Vic Smith
On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 19:44:45 -0500, "Dave" <noway@nohow.not> wrote:
>Too many unanswered questions. We'll have to wait for the Supremes to
>ule. -Dave
There are no unanswered questions. Just bullshit.
The "case" only got to SCOTUS because the wackos pushing it have the
finances to buy lawyers to get it kicked out of every court up to
SCOTUS, where they then have to "entertain" it.
SCOTUS will kick it out too. Like swatting a fly.
But the wackos will use the fact that it got to SCOTUS to perpetuate
the bullshit. There's money to be made in books, TV interviews, etc.
Think UFO's, Bigfoot, Loch Ness monster.
Same thing. Bullshit.
Hey, some people like that stuff.
--Vic
== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 11:59 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"
<sgallagher@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:76db2928-59db-4684-8d0a-6d6a3d4f802f@j32g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 7, 7:44 pm, "Dave" <no...@nohow.not> wrote:
> "JR Weiss" <jrwe...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>
> news:ghhodm$fdj$1@news.motzarella.org...
>
> > "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <der...@hotmail.com> wrote ...
>
> >>>> OK, I found it. No. 08A407. But this suit accepts that Obama was born
> >>>> in the USA and was an American citizen at birth.
>
> >>> And? Again, a citizen is not eligible to be President. -Dave
>
> >> correct. american citizenship does not automatically constitutionally
> >> qualify one to be prez
>
> > However, an American citizen who achieved that citizenship by virtue of
> > being born in the US IS a "natural born" citizen, and therefore meets
> > the
> > basic criterion!
>
> Unless you become a citizen of another country where you can not hold dual
> citizenship.
Only if that other country requires you to go to the officials of your
original country and formally renounce citizenship according to the
original country's laws, and then return to them with proof that you
really did renounce your original citizenship. Otherwise, the fact
that this other country does not allow dual citizenship would have no
effect upon a person's US citizenship.
the u.s. didn't allow dual citizenship except with israel at that time. i
pretty sure.
i think it may have changed, but i know that when my youngest was born
overseas,
we had to take steps to register him for a u.s. state department bc. so,
even if
the other country allowed dual citizenship, i don't think the u.s. allowed
it then
and maybe not now, except for israel.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: 533,000 Jobs Lost While Feds Import 140,000 Foreign Workers!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a1526898a9ebc1d2?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 6:11 pm
From: John Galt
BobR wrote:
> On Dec 7, 5:49 pm, John Galt <kady...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> BobR wrote:
>>> On Dec 7, 6:25 am, John Galt <kady...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Kurt Ullman wrote:
>>>>> In article <nuI_k.392484$3I2.191...@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com>,
>>>>> John Galt <kady...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> I can tell you that in Houston, the starting wage for an RN is about 50K
>>>>>> - 60K , and there's not enough to go around. Nursing wages are regional,
>>>>>> and your part of the country may differ. But down here, they are *not*
>>>>>> being brought to save money -- they're being brought because there's not
>>>>>> enough coming out of the nursing schools to meet demand.
>>>>>> JG
>>>>> The nursing shortage probably isn't at that end. Studies have
>>>>> consistently shown that between 15% and 20% of RNs under 65 are no
>>>>> longer in nursing. You get even half of those back and you are in good
>>>>> shape. Even at the height of my youthful powers, I couldn't take more
>>>>> than 3 years at a time before I had to get out at least for awhile.
>>>> Yea, that's the other issue. Since the consolidation of private hospital
>>>> chains (you probably know this better than I do) floor nurse/patient
>>>> ratios have skyrocketed, making the job a crappy one. (Doesn't explain
>>>> why the schools are short on nurses, but the entire "job satisfaction"
>>>> thing is obviously playing in.
>>>> JG- Hide quoted text -
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>> With the growing uncertain future of the healthcare field, nobody sees
>>> healthcare as a good choice for a career. Who wants to spend huge
>>> sums of money on graduate and post graduate degrees along with the
>>> subsequent low paying years as a resident for a career that may only
>>> pay the equilivent of teacher pay?
>> That's one of the big question marks in the 800 lb gorilla called
>> "health care reform." It's hard to imagine any nationalized system
>> working without reducing the pay of the higher-level medical
>> professionals and the profits of hospitals.
>>
>> JG
>>
>>
>>
>> - Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Please show me where the hospitals are making all that profit. You
> want to reform healthcare then the first place you look is at
> insurance companies.
Any reform system will have to examine all the profit points in detail.
They sit in the position of screwing both the
> healthcare providers and the patients. They sole purpose is to make a
> profit and they don't give a damn how they do it. The insurance
> companies dictate what will be paid to the providers and that extends
> to what the providers can charge. Tell me one other business that
> must accept what the customer decides they will pay rather that amount
> is enough to cover their costs. If the providers don't accept, the
> insurance companies have no qualms about forcing the patients to go
> elsewhere even if the quality of the care is unacceptable.
I agree. What we've created is a bastardized system where free market
price controls have been removed.
JG
>
== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 7:21 pm
From: aemeijers
The Daring Dufas wrote:
> HeyBub wrote:
>> John Galt wrote:
>>>> I have read of teachers in the red states requiring food stamps to
>>>> get by. Thanks for sharing that piece of info.
>>> It has nothing to do with red/blue. Starting salary in Houston is 38K,
>>> Dallas 37K, and Kansas City 36K, while they're under 32K in
>>> Philadelphia and Chicago, and 34.5K in D.C. I suspect the beginning
>>> teacher in the NYC Metro Area (42K) is a lot more likely to be on
>>> food stamps than the starting teacher in Houston.
>>>
>>
>> Take that Houston $38K and wind it down to an hourly rate.
>>
>> Let's see... Texas mandates 180 days of instruction. At seven hours
>> per day, that's 1,260 hours. $38,000/1260 is a bit over $30/hour. Not
>> as much as a Detroit auto-worker, but not chump-change either.
>>
>> Here's another bit of trivia: The Houston Independent School District
>> spends about 45% of it's employee budget on teacher salaries and
>> perks. Oh, you've got to have somebody to drive the busses and print
>> the paychecks, but when less than half your personnel costs go
>> directly to your primary mission, something's amiss.
>>
>
> The administrators soak up a heck of a lot of
> money. Some of them are paid CEO like salaries.
>
> TDD
Not saying most school systems are paragons of financial efficiency,
because I know from personal experience that they are not. But in
fairness to teachers, the 1260 hours a year to base salary on is a
crock. Every teacher I have ever known had at least a couple hours prep
work at night, several hours on weekends, plus quite often various
'other duties as assigned' at their school, helping out with early or
late activities. Unless they had well-paid spouses, most of the teachers
I have known have had to take summer gigs teaching or working in other
professions to make ends meet.
Not saying teachers are saints, mind you - there are lazy ones and
stupid ones, like any profession. But the vast majority of teachers I
have known, even ones I strongly disagreed with, worked their asses off.
There is a reason the burnout rate is so high- it is a hard job. I'd put
it right up there with primary-care nursing and street police work, and
for similar reasons.
--
aem sends...
== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 7:59 pm
From: Mike
On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 17:45:38 -0600, HeyBub wrote:
> Mike wrote:
>>
>>
>> the decline in the value of computer programming careers was the
>> natural result of the rise of microsoft because the smart programmers
>> refused to be caged by the lame ass windows environment and went off to
>> find greener pastures elsewhere. another reason is that venture
>> capitalists don't like funding software projects for which, on the off
>> chance one actually becomes highly successful, the profits will all
>> wind up in the hands of a highly predatory monopolistic law firm that
>> specializes in violating antitrust (ie. msft).
>
> Quite possibly. Programmers are like dentists - technically oriented,
> scientifically trained, but also artists. Every sterotype of the beatnik
> living in a garret in Greenwich Village holds for (most) programmers,
> even if they wear three-piece suits in a commercial environment.
>
> I've seen programs that didn't work, wouldn't work, and couldn't be made
> to work, but were revered because of the style, elegance, and cleverness
> of the author.
>
> On the other hand, what's a "smart" programmer? The programmers who
> started with Microsoft in the early years, and stuck it out, are
> multimillionaires. Of course they were not true to their own natures,
> sinned against the basic beauty of the machine-man interaction, and
> degenerated into venal slugs - but they retired at age 30 on a 60-foot
> yacht.
>
> They had no shame.
there's very little evidence that msft ever had any good programmers
judging by product quality which is as bad as it gets. sure they
eventually developed an os that doesn't crash every 10 minutes but that
was written by what, one or two programmers? how many tens of $billions
of monopoly profits obtained by highly predatory monopolistic antitrust
violating activities did it take for that to happen? not to mention how
many decades behind the technology curve they were in implementing the
core of a stable system (ie. memory management), twenty years at least
behind what was standard in computer science, not to mention the plethora
of systems already using the technology. no, msft's millionaires didn't
come from technology, it came from sales/marketing and a whole lot of
antitrust violating "innovation". now that's not to say that there
weren't any msft millionaires that had the title of "programmer", but
their success is more properly attributed to being in the right place at
the right time (under the astronomically huge waterfall of antitrust
violating monopoly profits) because in the real world (outside of the
fiction created within the walls of msft) applications like talking
paperclips & "microsoft bob" just don't cut it. so the point being that
all the programmers that didn't happen to be working for msft could see
the writing on the wall, and the smart ones reacted accordingly...
== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 9:12 pm
From: Vic Smith
On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 17:45:38 -0600, "HeyBub" <heybub@NOSPAMgmail.com>
wrote:
>
>I've seen programs that didn't work, wouldn't work, and couldn't be made to
>work, but were revered because of the style, elegance, and cleverness of the
>author.
>
That's pretty funny bullshit there. Get that from Super-Nerd Comics?
Sounds like something Maxwell Maxprogrammer might say.
Just before Bad Bixby Bug injected him with a nerd anti-virus.
--Vic
== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 9:12 pm
From: patmpowers@gmail.com
On Dec 8, 7:45 am, "HeyBub" <hey...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I've seen programs that didn't work, wouldn't work, and couldn't be made to
> work, but were revered because of the style, elegance, and cleverness of the
> author.
>
That I have never seen.
== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 10:05 pm
From: "Lubow"
>
> The administrators soak up a heck of a lot of
> money. Some of them are paid CEO like salaries.
>
Got that right. After spending twenty years attending B of E meetings and
citizen budget meetings the one recurring theme is that educating the kids is
the least important part of the public education system.
For example, at one time the highest paid teacher in our system was the strength
conditioning coach who seemed to have an IQ in double digits but was the ne'er
do well son of a B of E member. The coach's dad besides being the B of E member
was also the chief of staff to our local assemlyman. When the father died, the
son was fired.
Once I attended a citizens budget workshop where spending issues were discussed
between B of E members and the public. One funny item was for two dozen SLR
cameras for a photography course. "What was wrong with the cameras we bought
last year?" I asked.
"We can't find them."
Anyway, after the workshop concluded and the residents were assured that all
budgetary issues were closed, about 200 onlookers left the auditorium. I stayed
on for the administrative part of the meeting. With only a handful of residents
remaining, one B of E member wanted an additional budget line opened so her
daughter could get a job as a "counselor." I began screaming my head off that
the member was out of order. They almost called the cops because every resident
remaining at the meeting started screaming. Finally, the president of the B of
E got the nerve to state, "All budget matters are closed."
== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 10:42 pm
From: "Bill Reid"
<patmpowers@gmail.com> wrote in message news:13d135e2-d271-4baf-b099-cb6c046af62d@40g2000prx.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 8, 7:45 am, "HeyBub" <hey...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I've seen programs that didn't work, wouldn't work, and couldn't be made to
> > work, but were revered because of the style, elegance, and cleverness of the
> > author.
> That I have never seen.
Then you haven't seen much.
You yourself just used such a program.
You wanna talk about "American engineers"? You don't
have to look any further than all the "unfairly" laid-off engineers
who have spent the last few years polluting this newsgroup.
Here's one, a guy who calls "himself" (though sometimes "he"
has posted under women's names) "millstox". Here's "his"
self-described story of his engineering career: one time he
was assigned to write a program. He decided that the available
DEBUGGER didn't meet his exacting requirements, so he
"assigned himself" the open-ended task of writing a debugger
that would meet "his needs" rather than actually writing the
program he was assigned to write.
After a couple of years of this nonsense, he expressed total
surprise and indignation that "evil know-nothing management"
decided they didn't need "his" software development services
anymore. "He"'s spent the last seven years pretending to be
an "options trader" and screaming that "Microsoft wrecked
the software industry" and blowing through his non-existent
savings and now is living in a Unabomber shack doing
hard labor (the first REAL work he's done in "his" life, a hell
of a way to END your life).
THAT'S American "engineering", in a nutshell. For a large
portion of American "engineers", their greatest accomplishment
is to have melanin-poor skin, and like Michael "Lubow" Tenenbaum
they just can't accept when somebody with a greater resistance
to skin cancer may be perceived or ACTUALLY be a more
educated, dedicated, and productive engineer than they. So
they show up here to fling their frustrated hate...
But "millstox" WAS right about one thing...the problem IS
"American management". Unfortunately for him, they should
have fired him a LONG time before the tech crash, or at least
looked him hard in the eye and put him on warning years
earlier, might have actually worked...I've had a few opportunities
to do it and it actually DID work, who knew, you really CAN
manage people "professionally", if you yourself actually know
what the hell you're doing...
---
William Ernest Reid
Post count: 1367
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cambodia TEFL - Gap Year, Travel & Study, Paid Teaching Job - http://
www.cambodiatefl.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/50e2c17f1bd0f941?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 7:21 pm
From: Jobs Teaching English in Asia
Cambodia TEFL - Gap Year, Travel & Study, Paid Teaching Job
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lght rail was Re: Folks, this is a real depression, protect your assets
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/cb1cc803cf7130ab?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 7:50 pm
From: pyotr filipivich
[Default] I missed the Staff Meeting but the Minutes record that
aemeijers <aemeijers@att.net> reported Elvis on Sun, 07 Dec 2008
12:17:02 GMT in misc.survivalism :
>Gunner Asch wrote:
>> On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 22:17:59 -0500, "Dave" <noway1@noway2.not> wrote:
>>
>>> A rail system is a vacuum which sucks up all the commuters' money to
>>> subsidize cheap tickets for the very few people who want to use it.
>>>
>>>> What if people could drive 5 miles to a depot and then ride
>>>> in comfort to a central location?
>>> The people would do exactly what they do now...they'd drive to work. Even
>>> $5/gallon gas won't stop people from driving to work...what makes you think
>>> you can build a rail system that people will actually want to ride? Because
>>> virtually nobody wants to ride it now.
>>
>>
>> I live 42 miles from the closest railroad. Doesnt seem like mass transit
>> would do me much good.
>>
>> I do however work in So. Cal. As a service tech, I may hit 3-5 clients a
>> day, many 40 miles apart or more
>>
>> Rail wont do me much good either.
>>
>> Gunner
>>
>> "They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist..."
>> Maj. Gen. John Sedgewick, killed by a sniper in 1864 at the battle of Spotsylvania
>
>Oh, this has been discussed to death on here (and in
>transportation-related groups) multiple times. Light Rail does make
>sense in certain areas, like the big east coast urban areas, Chicago, SF
>Bay area, and other densely-packed places with natural choke points
>limiting how many cars can get in and out during the day.
And for certain occupations. If your commute doesn't involve the
carrying of large or heavy items. Like groceries. Or samples. Or
plumbing supplies. or ...
And the light rail must go from where I am to where I need to be,
near the schedule I'm on. E.g. it wouldn't have worked for me to take
the Sounder (Tacoma to Seattle), as I would have first had to drive to
Tacoma, catch the train to Seattle, then a bus to where I work. It
was the getting home which was the problem. See, I got off work at
midnight, and the next train to Tacoma was at 5 pm, nineteen hours
later and a hour and forty five minutes after I was to be back at
work.
When I lived in Germany, it was a different situation. There, the
trains ran regularly (enough), and close enough to work. It was a
kilometer from the nearest station to the village I lived in, but...
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 10:37 pm
From: strabo
Dave wrote:
>>> Well let's hope not. But nobody with a brain imagines that higher taxes
> and
>>> unskilled workers building roads and bridges is going to increase
>>> non-government employment. -Dave
>> What if those roads and bridges make it cheaper to get goods to market
>> and people into their factories and office parks?
>
> Great. When unemployment goes over 50%, who is going to need roads and
> bridges to get to boarded-up factories and office parks?
>
>
>> Why wouldn't that increase efficiency?
>
> I guess it would make it easier to drive to the unemployment office to pick
> up your check maybe.
>
>
>
>> What if the rail systems were
>> modernized?
>
> A rail system is a vacuum which sucks up all the commuters' money to
> subsidize cheap tickets for the very few people who want to use it.
>
>> What if people could drive 5 miles to a depot and then ride
>> in comfort to a central location?
>
> The people would do exactly what they do now...they'd drive to work. Even
> $5/gallon gas won't stop people from driving to work...what makes you think
> you can build a rail system that people will actually want to ride? Because
> virtually nobody wants to ride it now.
>
>> Imagine if every business were in locations beset by traffic jams,
>> compared with easy direct access for workers and egress for finished
>> goods?
>
> WHAT businesses? WHAT finished goods? If you haven't noticed, the economy
> is tanking.
>
>
>> How can wise infrastructure investments fail to help foster business
>> development?
>
> Hmmmmm...let's see. All our jobs are going overseas, and the few remaining
> employers? We're going to foster their business development. Not a
> terrible idea, I guess. I mean, we want to make the few remaining employers
> as comfortable as possible while they plan to ship our jobs overseas, also.
>
> There is nothing "wrong" with improving infrastructure. But that, by
> itself, won't increase employment. And, the increased taxes required for
> the infrastructure improvements will be enough of a drain on the economy
> that the infrastructure improvements will do more harm than good.
>
Obama and his crew is governed by Marxist ideology - strong central
command and control.
Government will provide millions of jobs to work on infrastructure and
medical, but also millions of jobs for an expanded military (for the new
war) and millions of full and part time 'security' jobs.
In short, Obama plans to expand government, big time.
>
> Obama's planning to put the cart before the horse. When we don't have
> enough money to improve infrastructure, he's planning to DESTROY the economy
> in a misguided attempt to improve the infrastructure. Fix the economy
> first, then we might have money to improve the infrastructure. -Dave
>
Congressional decisions have made it clear that the powers-that-be
have no intention of fixing the problems. Spending must not be
curtailed but expanded.
Obama has inherited the plan to destroy the economy and 'reinvent'
America as a Socialist security state. All presidents since Eisenhower
have done their part.
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== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 10:47 pm
From: strabo
Dan wrote:
> Gunner Asch wrote:
>> On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 22:17:59 -0500, "Dave" <noway1@noway2.not> wrote:
>>
>>> A rail system is a vacuum which sucks up all the commuters' money to
>>> subsidize cheap tickets for the very few people who want to use it.
>>>
>>>> What if people could drive 5 miles to a depot and then ride
>>>> in comfort to a central location?
>>> The people would do exactly what they do now...they'd drive to work.
>>> Even
>>> $5/gallon gas won't stop people from driving to work...what makes you
>>> think
>>> you can build a rail system that people will actually want to ride?
>>> Because
>>> virtually nobody wants to ride it now.
>>
>>
>> I live 42 miles from the closest railroad. Doesnt seem like mass transit
>> would do me much good.
>>
>> I do however work in So. Cal. As a service tech, I may hit 3-5 clients a
>> day, many 40 miles apart or more
>>
>> Rail wont do me much good either.
>
> And, of course, it's all about you...
>
Yes, it's called self-interest and survival.
Let us know when the Kennedys begin taking the bus.
> Dan
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