Frugal Living: misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 9 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Folks, this is a real depression, protect your assets
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/cb1cc803cf7130ab?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 6 2008 10:03 pm
From: Jeffrey Turner

Dave wrote:
> <EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com> wrote in message
> news:ghbclh$4b0$3@reader1.panix.com...
>> In misc.survivalism Dave <noway1@noway2.not> wrote:
>>
>>> With a budget imbalance of trillions, how do you propose increasing
> spending
>>> without increasing taxes? Just print more money?
>> Generally, spending is increased without increasing income by borrowing
>> money.
>>
>
> OK. I'll be gentle here, and assume that you just haven't done the math.
> You speak about borrowing money like it's OK.
>
> The original $700BN bailout was actually $820 Billion (by the time it
> PASSED), borrowed from China. What's the payoff on that loan? (principle
> plus interest)
> I don't know but I'm guessing at least $1.6 Trillion dollars is a pretty
> optimistic estimate, meaning I fear it is probably a lot higher than that.
>
> 138,000,000 taxpayers in the U.S. right now.
>
> It will cost my family at least $23,000 in extra (note EXTRA) taxes. How
> much will it cost your family?
>
> That much is DONE already. That was long before all these other bailout
> proposals, currently totalling about 8 Trillion (borrowed principle amount),
> last I heard. It seems to be increasing by hundreds of billions a week
> though. How much will your family have to pay for say, 10 trillion
> principle, which will cost about 20 trillion or more with interest? HAVE
> YOU DONE THE MATH???????????????????????????????????????????? -Dave

Oscar Wilde said a cynic is someone who knows the price of everything
and the value of nothing. That mantle has been passed to the
mouth-breathing conservatroids.

--Jeff

--
I learned that ... the most grinding
poverty is a trifling evil compared
with the inequality of classes.
--William Morris

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 1:55 am
From: Gunner Asch

On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 22:17:59 -0500, "Dave" <noway1@noway2.not> wrote:

>A rail system is a vacuum which sucks up all the commuters' money to
>subsidize cheap tickets for the very few people who want to use it.
>
>> What if people could drive 5 miles to a depot and then ride
>> in comfort to a central location?
>
>The people would do exactly what they do now...they'd drive to work. Even
>$5/gallon gas won't stop people from driving to work...what makes you think
>you can build a rail system that people will actually want to ride? Because
>virtually nobody wants to ride it now.

I live 42 miles from the closest railroad. Doesnt seem like mass transit
would do me much good.

I do however work in So. Cal. As a service tech, I may hit 3-5 clients a
day, many 40 miles apart or more

Rail wont do me much good either.

Gunner

"They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist..."
Maj. Gen. John Sedgewick, killed by a sniper in 1864 at the battle of Spotsylvania

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 1:56 am
From: Gunner Asch

On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 00:57:01 -0500, Jeffrey Turner
<jturner@localnet.com> wrote:

>Dave wrote:
>>> Not to mention that all that "unskilled labor" with a few more bucks in
>>> their pockets would buy more stuff, which would generate private sector
>>> jobs making and selling that stuff. Dave might want to learn something
>>> about the multiplier effect.
>>>
>>> --Jeff
>>
>> Jeff - Marxism does not work. -Dave
>
>Dave,
>
>Your brain doesn't work, apparently. If you've got economic facts to
>argue with, show 'em. Or shut up and learn.
>
>--Jeff

Deff appears to be in denial.

Heads up..Marxism DOESNT work. Never has, never will.

Gunner

"They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist..."
Maj. Gen. John Sedgewick, killed by a sniper in 1864 at the battle of Spotsylvania

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 1:58 am
From: Gunner Asch

On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 01:03:30 -0500, Jeffrey Turner
<jturner@localnet.com> wrote:

>
>Oscar Wilde said a cynic is someone who knows the price of everything
>and the value of nothing. That mantle has been passed to the
>mouth-breathing conservatroids.
>
>--Jeff

And knowing nothing is stock in trade with the far leftwing extremist
fringe kooks. Not only stock in trade..,but their life style, and their
pride and joy.

Gunner

"They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist..."
Maj. Gen. John Sedgewick, killed by a sniper in 1864 at the battle of Spotsylvania

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 4:17 am
From: aemeijers

Gunner Asch wrote:
> On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 22:17:59 -0500, "Dave" <noway1@noway2.not> wrote:
>
>> A rail system is a vacuum which sucks up all the commuters' money to
>> subsidize cheap tickets for the very few people who want to use it.
>>
>>> What if people could drive 5 miles to a depot and then ride
>>> in comfort to a central location?
>> The people would do exactly what they do now...they'd drive to work. Even
>> $5/gallon gas won't stop people from driving to work...what makes you think
>> you can build a rail system that people will actually want to ride? Because
>> virtually nobody wants to ride it now.
>
>
> I live 42 miles from the closest railroad. Doesnt seem like mass transit
> would do me much good.
>
> I do however work in So. Cal. As a service tech, I may hit 3-5 clients a
> day, many 40 miles apart or more
>
> Rail wont do me much good either.
>
> Gunner
>
> "They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist..."
> Maj. Gen. John Sedgewick, killed by a sniper in 1864 at the battle of Spotsylvania

Oh, this has been discussed to death on here (and in
transportation-related groups) multiple times. Light Rail does make
sense in certain areas, like the big east coast urban areas, Chicago, SF
Bay area, and other densely-packed places with natural choke points
limiting how many cars can get in and out during the day. The rest of
North America, not so much. People (and their work locations) are simply
too spread out and distant from existing or plausible rail lines. Almost
nobody will spend an hour plus commuting each way, if they can drive it
in 15-20 minutes. The New Urban utopians can prattle all they want- most
people don't want to live in a high-rise, a row house, or on a 40x80
urban lot- they want room and privacy, and as soon as they can afford
it, they go for it. (Or avoid the Big City experience in the first
place, if they weren't born and raised there.)

I'll leave for another day the discussion of why cities over a couple
hundred thousand in population are a Bad Idea. Companies (but sadly, not
the government and the beltway bandits that feed on them) are starting
to realize that it is cheaper to locate new operations pretty much
anyplace that isn't a big city, and that it is easier to get qualified
employees in areas with lower costs of living.

--
aem sends...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 533,000 Jobs Lost While Feds Import 140,000 Foreign Workers!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a1526898a9ebc1d2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 12:20 am
From: Michael Coburn

On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 07:15:19 -0600, John Galt wrote:

> HeyBub wrote:
>> John Galt wrote:
>>> Or teaching math, for that matter. Gene Green (D-Houston) has
>>> sponsored a bill to waive the immigrant worker visa filing fees for
>>> elementary
>>> and secondary schoools; Rep. Green is a pro-labor Democrat. What's
>>> responsible for that dissonance?
>>>
>>> Well, something like 40% of Texas math teachers and 20% of science
>>> teachers aren't certified to teach those subjects -- they do so under
>>> temporary certification programs which give them a year or two to make
>>> up their educational deficiency, but in fact the majority of those
>>> teaching under temp certificates have neither the ability nor the
>>> interest to make up that deficiency, preferring to simply wait until a
>>> position in their field comes available. But, the larger problem is
>>> that there simply aren't enough math certified teachers to fill the
>>> jobs.
>>> The school districts wish to solve that problem by importing math
>>> teachers. (Many campuses already go WITHOUT a school nurse, btw,
>>> because of the aforementioned shortage.)
>>>
>>> One cannot assume that the only reason for an immigrant work visa
>>> filing is wage.
>>
>> You're right. That's not the only reason. The following are NOT
>> qualified to teach in the public schools of Texas.
>>
>> * All living Nobel Laureates
>> * All living winners of the Pulitzer, Hugo, or Edgar prizes. Most
>> winners of the Newberry.
>> * Almost all members of Congress and all living ex-presidents. * Almost
>> all members of the federal judiciary. * Virtually all retired
>> physicians, nurses, and engineers.
>>
>> Do you have any doubt that a retired civil engineer couldn't teach
>> plane geometry off the top of this head, or that a retired chemical
>> engineer couldn't do the same thing for high school chemistry?
>
> There's no question that they could, and if that was the only reason for
> needing training in pedagogy, preventing them from doing so is indeed
> silly. However, that's not the entire story. There is actual skill
> involved in managing 30 kids in order to achieve an academic objective,
> and that skill is almost always assumed to be simplistic by those who
> have never been in a classroom situation. It's not.
>
> But, why would a retired engineer want to get up at 6AM and be grading
> papers in front of the TV at night for 30K per year?

Perhaps we have unraveled the reason for the shortage!!!!!!!!

> Our current unemployment problem is not with the professional groups you
> mention. They either have jobs or are enjoying comfortable retirements
> from which they are unlikely to want to pull themselves out of bed at
> 6AM each day. Our current unemployment problem are predominately people
> who are NOT qualified by educational background to teach in the schools.
> The number of people with sufficient education to teach that are without
> work isn't large enough to address the problem.

If the role of "teacher" paid better and commanded more respect we would
not have a shortage.

>>
>> No, the reason these people are unqualified by law to teach in the
>> public schools is that they lack the requisite education courses! A
>> retired PhD has at least 18 years experience as a student and probably
>> two or three years teaching undergraduate courses - much more
>> experience than your typical beginning public school teacher!
>
> Yes, but no experience in teaching and motivating students who don't
> want to be in the classroom. And therein lies the reason that we do have
> teacher training. I'd agree with you that there is some unnecessary
> bureaucracy there, but it's not ALL unnecessary.
>
> JG
>
>
>
>> Bah!
>>
>> The inmates are in charge of the asylum.
>>
>> On the plus side, a degree in education does tend to weed out the
>> unmotivated...
>>
>>

== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 1:20 am
From: patmpowers@gmail.com

On Dec 7, 11:41 am, John Galt <kady...@gmail.com> wrote:
> patmpow...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Dec 6, 7:34 pm, John Galt <kady...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>> On Fri, 5 Dec 2008 21:20:24 -0800 (PST),
> >>> obamao.sux.donki.dix...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>> With the federal government reporting another giant loss of jobs for
> >>>> November, isn't it time to stop the massive importation of foreign
> >>>> workers?
> >>>>http://www.numbersusa.com/content/nusablog/beckr/december-5-2008/5330...
> >>> Does anyone still support this frigging government"
> >>> ted
> >> The article, quite unfortunately, says nothing about what the imported
> >> workers do. For example, there is a huge mismatch in the number of RN
> >> jobs in this country vs the number of RNs available to fill them. (It
> >> also uses the term "the feds imported" when in fact the "feds" don't
> >> import anybody; they simply provide authorization for other employers to
> >> recruit them.)
>
> >> You can be losing jobs at whatever rate you like, but if there's not
> >> enough RNs coming out of nursing schools to fill the openings, you
> >> either bring them in from elsewhere or go without. You don't want people
> >> who don't know what the hell they're doing administering meds to patients.
>
> > According to a friend in the health care business, the reason they
> > can't get enough health care workers is that the wages are too low.
> > Think $8 hour. Instead workers are being imported from overseas,
> > particularly the Philippines, and they may not provide good care.
>
> I can tell you that in Houston, the starting wage for an RN is about 50K
> - 60K , and there's not enough to go around. Nursing wages are regional,
> and your part of the country may differ. But down here, they are *not*
> being brought to save money -- they're being brought because there's not
> enough coming out of the nursing schools to meet demand.
>
> JG

Note that I carefully wrote "health care worker" not RN. My friend
didn't have any fancy credentials. He was from Chevy Chase, Maryland.

== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 2:55 am
From: Kurt Ullman

In article <nuI_k.392484$3I2.191356@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com>,
John Galt <kady101@gmail.com> wrote:

> I can tell you that in Houston, the starting wage for an RN is about 50K
> - 60K , and there's not enough to go around. Nursing wages are regional,
> and your part of the country may differ. But down here, they are *not*
> being brought to save money -- they're being brought because there's not
> enough coming out of the nursing schools to meet demand.
>
> JG

The nursing shortage probably isn't at that end. Studies have
consistently shown that between 15% and 20% of RNs under 65 are no
longer in nursing. You get even half of those back and you are in good
shape. Even at the height of my youthful powers, I couldn't take more
than 3 years at a time before I had to get out at least for awhile.

== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 5:36 am
From: harry

On Dec 6, 4:25 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Fri, 5 Dec 2008 21:20:24 -0800 (PST),
>
> obamao.sux.donki.dix...@gmail.com wrote:
> >With the federal government reporting another giant loss of jobs for
> >November, isn't it time to stop the massive importation of foreign
> >workers?
>
> >http://www.numbersusa.com/content/nusablog/beckr/december-5-2008/5330...
>
> Does anyone still support this frigging government"
>
> ted

>
>

Hello ted,

If youwill go to Hal Turner's site at www.halturnershow.blogspot.com
youwill find a most interesting answer to your question.

Truly

Truth will set you free John 8:32

Must Reads---->
http://www.judicial-inc.biz
http://www.jewwatch.com
Good Read:
www.tinyurl.com/lbgov

== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 6:14 am
From: harry

On Dec 6, 7:34 am, John Galt <kady...@gmail.com> wrote:
> wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Fri, 5 Dec 2008 21:20:24 -0800 (PST),
> > obamao.sux.donki.dix...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >> With the federal government reporting another giant loss of jobs for
> >> November, isn't it time to stop the massive importation of foreign
> >> workers?
>
> >>http://www.numbersusa.com/content/nusablog/beckr/december-5-2008/5330...
>
> > Does anyone still support this frigging government"
>
> > ted
>
> The article, quite unfortunately, says nothing about what the imported
> workers do. For example, there is a huge mismatch in the number of RN
> jobs in this country vs the number of RNs available to fill them. (It
> also uses the term "the feds imported" when in fact the "feds" don't
> import anybody; they simply provide authorization for other employers to
> recruit them.)
>
> You can be losing jobs at whatever rate you like, but if there's not
> enough RNs coming out of nursing schools to fill the openings, you
> either bring them in from elsewhere or go without. You don't want people
> who don't know what the hell they're doing administering meds to patients.
>
> Or teaching math, for that matter. Gene Green (D-Houston) has sponsored
> a bill to waive the immigrant worker visa filing fees for elementary and
> secondary schoools; Rep. Green is a pro-labor Democrat. What's
> responsible for that dissonance?
>
> Well, something like 40% of Texas math teachers and 20% of science
> teachers aren't certified to teach those subjects -- they do so under
> temporary certification programs which give them a year or two to make
> up their educational deficiency, but in fact the majority of those
> teaching under temp certificates have neither the ability nor the
> interest to make up that deficiency, preferring to simply wait until a
> position in their field comes available. But, the larger problem is that
> there simply aren't enough math certified teachers to fill the jobs.
>
> The school districts wish to solve that problem by importing math
> teachers. (Many campuses already go WITHOUT a school nurse, btw, because
> of the aforementioned shortage.)
>
> One cannot assume that the only reason for an immigrant work visa filing
> is wage.
>
> JG

>
>
Hello JG,

You sound quite sure of yourself:

When i was a little girl, my family was quarantined because our duplex
neighbor had suspect polio. When i was doing HHA work, not only were
AIDS patients not quarantined, but there was some kind of "law" that
stated no HHA was allowed to know whether or not the patient had AIDS.
I quit the field, and went back to sitting behind a desk. A lot of
people did similar.

The public schools are full of jungle treachery and fear: no one from
an organized, civilized, Christian society wants to live like that,
and even many cannot, because of their breeding and upbringing.

Now then for the replacements: Third-world mentality (The dumbing down
of America)[please remember: you can even teach a horse to count, and
"You can take the bunny out of the jungle, but you cannot take the
jungle out of the bunny"] is replacing the organized, civilized,
American Christian here in The United States Of America, while our
young men are being killed off in pagan nations (genocide), where her
leader (Oil-slick Bush, Just another one of the Jew's lackeys) calls
her The Constitution Of The United States Of America, "Just a piece of
paper", while stealing from and slaughtering anyone Jew tells him to.

That, JG, is the big picture, now for the nitty-gritty:

Truly

Truth will set you free according to Jesus in John 8:32

Wisdom [is] better than weapons of war: . . . Ecc 9:18

Must Reads---->
http://www.judicial-inc.biz
http://www.jewwatch.com

The Truth About the Khazar: tinyurl.com/697m21
No Such Thing As "Jew": http://tinyurl.com/88y27
Monarch Slave Abusers: http://www.heart7.net/programmers.html
See Poor, Needy Jew Spend Your Hard-earned Wages (Foreign Aid):
http://tinyurl.com/yx4d7r
See Jew Murder USA Military Boys(USS LIBERTY): http://www.gtr5.com/
See Jew Destroy Your Nation: http://www.judicial-inc.biz
This proves America is in fact a Christian nation open to the
oppressed and persecuted no matter what religion:
http://www.tinyurl.com/lbgov
"Christian" isnot a religion; itis a proven fact of/by prophecies
culminated.

http://tinyurl.com/yw9x9c
http://tinyurl.com/4td7bw
http://tinyurl.com/ywfdbn
http://www.cdlreport.com/
http://www.rense.com/
http://benfrank.net/
http://www.whodidit.org/cocon.html
http://www.nsm88.org/index2.html

These are the "chosen": Rev. 17:14
"Jew" are the "chosen" of Satan: John 8:44
Jew Must Pay Up For Death of Our Saviour: Math. 27:25

== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 6:21 am
From: Nate Nagel

harry wrote:
> On Dec 6, 7:34 am, John Galt <kady...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> On Fri, 5 Dec 2008 21:20:24 -0800 (PST),
>>> obamao.sux.donki.dix...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> With the federal government reporting another giant loss of jobs for
>>>> November, isn't it time to stop the massive importation of foreign
>>>> workers?
>>>> http://www.numbersusa.com/content/nusablog/beckr/december-5-2008/5330...
>>> Does anyone still support this frigging government"
>>> ted
>> The article, quite unfortunately, says nothing about what the imported
>> workers do. For example, there is a huge mismatch in the number of RN
>> jobs in this country vs the number of RNs available to fill them. (It
>> also uses the term "the feds imported" when in fact the "feds" don't
>> import anybody; they simply provide authorization for other employers to
>> recruit them.)
>>
>> You can be losing jobs at whatever rate you like, but if there's not
>> enough RNs coming out of nursing schools to fill the openings, you
>> either bring them in from elsewhere or go without. You don't want people
>> who don't know what the hell they're doing administering meds to patients.
>>
>> Or teaching math, for that matter. Gene Green (D-Houston) has sponsored
>> a bill to waive the immigrant worker visa filing fees for elementary and
>> secondary schoools; Rep. Green is a pro-labor Democrat. What's
>> responsible for that dissonance?
>>
>> Well, something like 40% of Texas math teachers and 20% of science
>> teachers aren't certified to teach those subjects -- they do so under
>> temporary certification programs which give them a year or two to make
>> up their educational deficiency, but in fact the majority of those
>> teaching under temp certificates have neither the ability nor the
>> interest to make up that deficiency, preferring to simply wait until a
>> position in their field comes available. But, the larger problem is that
>> there simply aren't enough math certified teachers to fill the jobs.
>>
>> The school districts wish to solve that problem by importing math
>> teachers. (Many campuses already go WITHOUT a school nurse, btw, because
>> of the aforementioned shortage.)
>>
>> One cannot assume that the only reason for an immigrant work visa filing
>> is wage.
>>
>> JG
>
>>
> Hello JG,
>
> You sound quite sure of yourself:
>
> When i was a little girl, my family was quarantined because our duplex
> neighbor had suspect polio. When i was doing HHA work, not only were
> AIDS patients not quarantined, but there was some kind of "law" that
> stated no HHA was allowed to know whether or not the patient had AIDS.
> I quit the field, and went back to sitting behind a desk. A lot of
> people did similar.
>
> The public schools are full of jungle treachery and fear: no one from
> an organized, civilized, Christian society wants to live like that,
> and even many cannot, because of their breeding and upbringing.
>
> Now then for the replacements: Third-world mentality (The dumbing down
> of America)[please remember: you can even teach a horse to count, and
> "You can take the bunny out of the jungle, but you cannot take the
> jungle out of the bunny"] is replacing the organized, civilized,
> American Christian here in The United States Of America,

Or we could encourage measures that would increase the standards of
living in "third world" countries and help their populations expect the
same kind of civil rights and safety regulations that we enjoy here.
This would likely increase wages overseas, making the economic component
of imported labor less of a factor.

> while our
> young men are being killed off in pagan nations (genocide), where her
> leader (Oil-slick Bush, Just another one of the Jew's lackeys) calls
> her The Constitution Of The United States Of America, "Just a piece of
> paper", while stealing from and slaughtering anyone Jew tells him to...

(poster goes completely off the rails)

That'll learn me to start a reply before reading the whole post.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 4:30 am
From: John Galt

Michael Coburn wrote:
> On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 07:15:19 -0600, John Galt wrote:
>
>> HeyBub wrote:
>>> John Galt wrote:
>>>> Or teaching math, for that matter. Gene Green (D-Houston) has
>>>> sponsored a bill to waive the immigrant worker visa filing fees for
>>>> elementary
>>>> and secondary schoools; Rep. Green is a pro-labor Democrat. What's
>>>> responsible for that dissonance?
>>>>
>>>> Well, something like 40% of Texas math teachers and 20% of science
>>>> teachers aren't certified to teach those subjects -- they do so under
>>>> temporary certification programs which give them a year or two to make
>>>> up their educational deficiency, but in fact the majority of those
>>>> teaching under temp certificates have neither the ability nor the
>>>> interest to make up that deficiency, preferring to simply wait until a
>>>> position in their field comes available. But, the larger problem is
>>>> that there simply aren't enough math certified teachers to fill the
>>>> jobs.
>>>> The school districts wish to solve that problem by importing math
>>>> teachers. (Many campuses already go WITHOUT a school nurse, btw,
>>>> because of the aforementioned shortage.)
>>>>
>>>> One cannot assume that the only reason for an immigrant work visa
>>>> filing is wage.
>>> You're right. That's not the only reason. The following are NOT
>>> qualified to teach in the public schools of Texas.
>>>
>>> * All living Nobel Laureates
>>> * All living winners of the Pulitzer, Hugo, or Edgar prizes. Most
>>> winners of the Newberry.
>>> * Almost all members of Congress and all living ex-presidents. * Almost
>>> all members of the federal judiciary. * Virtually all retired
>>> physicians, nurses, and engineers.
>>>
>>> Do you have any doubt that a retired civil engineer couldn't teach
>>> plane geometry off the top of this head, or that a retired chemical
>>> engineer couldn't do the same thing for high school chemistry?
>> There's no question that they could, and if that was the only reason for
>> needing training in pedagogy, preventing them from doing so is indeed
>> silly. However, that's not the entire story. There is actual skill
>> involved in managing 30 kids in order to achieve an academic objective,
>> and that skill is almost always assumed to be simplistic by those who
>> have never been in a classroom situation. It's not.
>>
>> But, why would a retired engineer want to get up at 6AM and be grading
>> papers in front of the TV at night for 30K per year?
>
> Perhaps we have unraveled the reason for the shortage!!!!!!!!

Yep. Free market for labor. If you need a job to be filled, increase the
pay until it's filled. If it were the private sector, that's what would
happen. BUT, because it's the public sector where substantial wage
increases require substantial tax increases (or decreases in the status
quo bureacracy) wages are stagnant.

>
>> Our current unemployment problem is not with the professional groups you
>> mention. They either have jobs or are enjoying comfortable retirements
>> from which they are unlikely to want to pull themselves out of bed at
>> 6AM each day. Our current unemployment problem are predominately people
>> who are NOT qualified by educational background to teach in the schools.
>> The number of people with sufficient education to teach that are without
>> work isn't large enough to address the problem.
>
> If the role of "teacher" paid better and commanded more respect we would
> not have a shortage.

Agreed. The job needs more pay, that pay should largely come from a
decrease in local bureacracy (a national curriculum, of which NCLB is a
first start, can help get us there) and a teaching environment which
supports teachers rather than makes unrealistic expectations of them
(that's a long story....) would get us to both of the objectives you cite.

>
>>> No, the reason these people are unqualified by law to teach in the
>>> public schools is that they lack the requisite education courses! A
>>> retired PhD has at least 18 years experience as a student and probably
>>> two or three years teaching undergraduate courses - much more
>>> experience than your typical beginning public school teacher!
>> Yes, but no experience in teaching and motivating students who don't
>> want to be in the classroom. And therein lies the reason that we do have
>> teacher training. I'd agree with you that there is some unnecessary
>> bureaucracy there, but it's not ALL unnecessary.
>>
>> JG
>>
>>
>>
>>> Bah!
>>>
>>> The inmates are in charge of the asylum.
>>>
>>> On the plus side, a degree in education does tend to weed out the
>>> unmotivated...
>>>
>>>
>

== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 4:36 am
From: John Galt

Smitty Two wrote:
> In article <upslj4p7u9prr542q512qsf1btskdngj3a@4ax.com>,
> KLS <xymergy@suds.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 09:18:38 -0800 (PST), hpope@lycos.com wrote:
>>
>>> By the way, the 140,00 foreign workers does not include the horde of
>>> low-IQ welfare leeching
>>> illegal immigrants. Deport those 15 million (conservative estimate)
>>> and an economic boom would
>>> sweep this nation.
>> Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing all the white legal citizens pick
>> up the migrant worker agricultural jobs in New York State, 2nd largest
>> agricultural producer in the US. Will we be seeing you out in the
>> apple orchards in the Finger Lakes soon?
>
> I grew up in Wisconsin, in a small farm community. We weren't farmers
> but many of our friends were. No hispanics, no blacks, no asians in the
> area. No immigrants at all, legal or illegal. Guess what? The crops got
> harvested. I worked seasonally detassling corn to make a few bucks as a
> teenager.
>
> When I was 21, and again when I was 22, I took the freight trains with
> friends out to Washington State for the apple harvest. We worked for six
> or eight weeks, picking apples. There were no Mexicans doing it back
> then, just born-in-America caucasians. (The guy who drove the tractor
> was black, though.)
>
> We got paid $8 per bin. A bin holds roughly 2500 apples. My first
> ten-hour day, I picked almost one bin. After a month of practice, I was
> up to 3 - 4 bins per day. We came home with several hundred dollars in
> our pockets, and glad of it.
>
> I have only one thing to say to those who believe the crops would rot in
> the fields without illegal aliens on the job -- "bullshit."

I agree. There are probably some kinds of fruits and vegetables that
would become much more expensive if the pickers had to be paid in the
minimum-to-$10 per hour area. The average family, acting as rational
consumers, would slow or end their purchase of those products and pick
others instead, whereupon the farmers would make rational choices, based
on the shift in demand, to grow something else.

Supply and demand shift has been happening for millenia. No reason to
suddenly be afraid of it.

== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 4:25 am
From: John Galt

Kurt Ullman wrote:
> In article <nuI_k.392484$3I2.191356@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com>,
> John Galt <kady101@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> I can tell you that in Houston, the starting wage for an RN is about 50K
>> - 60K , and there's not enough to go around. Nursing wages are regional,
>> and your part of the country may differ. But down here, they are *not*
>> being brought to save money -- they're being brought because there's not
>> enough coming out of the nursing schools to meet demand.
>>
>> JG
>
> The nursing shortage probably isn't at that end. Studies have
> consistently shown that between 15% and 20% of RNs under 65 are no
> longer in nursing. You get even half of those back and you are in good
> shape. Even at the height of my youthful powers, I couldn't take more
> than 3 years at a time before I had to get out at least for awhile.

Yea, that's the other issue. Since the consolidation of private hospital
chains (you probably know this better than I do) floor nurse/patient
ratios have skyrocketed, making the job a crappy one. (Doesn't explain
why the schools are short on nurses, but the entire "job satisfaction"
thing is obviously playing in.

== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 4:32 am
From: John Galt

patmpowers@gmail.com wrote:
> On Dec 7, 11:41 am, John Galt <kady...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> patmpow...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Dec 6, 7:34 pm, John Galt <kady...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 5 Dec 2008 21:20:24 -0800 (PST),
>>>>> obamao.sux.donki.dix...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> With the federal government reporting another giant loss of jobs for
>>>>>> November, isn't it time to stop the massive importation of foreign
>>>>>> workers?
>>>>>> http://www.numbersusa.com/content/nusablog/beckr/december-5-2008/5330...
>>>>> Does anyone still support this frigging government"
>>>>> ted
>>>> The article, quite unfortunately, says nothing about what the imported
>>>> workers do. For example, there is a huge mismatch in the number of RN
>>>> jobs in this country vs the number of RNs available to fill them. (It
>>>> also uses the term "the feds imported" when in fact the "feds" don't
>>>> import anybody; they simply provide authorization for other employers to
>>>> recruit them.)
>>>> You can be losing jobs at whatever rate you like, but if there's not
>>>> enough RNs coming out of nursing schools to fill the openings, you
>>>> either bring them in from elsewhere or go without. You don't want people
>>>> who don't know what the hell they're doing administering meds to patients.
>>> According to a friend in the health care business, the reason they
>>> can't get enough health care workers is that the wages are too low.
>>> Think $8 hour. Instead workers are being imported from overseas,
>>> particularly the Philippines, and they may not provide good care.
>> I can tell you that in Houston, the starting wage for an RN is about 50K
>> - 60K , and there's not enough to go around. Nursing wages are regional,
>> and your part of the country may differ. But down here, they are *not*
>> being brought to save money -- they're being brought because there's not
>> enough coming out of the nursing schools to meet demand.
>>
>> JG
>
> Note that I carefully wrote "health care worker" not RN. My friend
> didn't have any fancy credentials. He was from Chevy Chase, Maryland.

OK. Obviously, the allied health professions vary in training and
compensation. The low end of the wage totem pole, usually inhabited by
med techs and EMTs, are not particularly well paid.

== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 6:43 am
From: Kurt Ullman

In article <grP_k.392690$3I2.296167@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com>,
John Galt <kady101@gmail.com> wrote:

> S
> I agree. There are probably some kinds of fruits and vegetables that
> would become much more expensive if the pickers had to be paid in the
> minimum-to-$10 per hour area. The average family, acting as rational
> consumers, would slow or end their purchase of those products and pick
> others instead, whereupon the farmers would make rational choices, based
> on the shift in demand, to grow something else.
>
Some permutations of three things would happen (1) prices would rise,
(2) pay would rise (3) mechanization would increase.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why not a holiday from auto buying?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9e36c73bdf3daf50?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 12:59 am
From: "Rod Speed"

zzbunker <zzbunker@netscape.net> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>> wis...@yahoo.com wrote

>>> For the next 6 months, at least, think about refraining from buying
>>> a new vehicle. If yours totally fails buy a used car or truck.

>> Great way to fuck the economy very comprehensively indeed.

>>> (By the way, a new car is a crummy investment i.e. instant depreciation)

>> True of anything except houses, stupid.

> Houses are such a horrible investment,

Thats just plain wrong. Hordes have found that they make a hell of
a lot more sense than pouring the rent money down a rat hole for life.

I cant think of anyone who has had enough of a clue to buy a house thats ever regretted doing that.

> that's why they even let people like Congress and New Orleans invest in them.

>>> Or have yours repaired. The current cars and trucks can easily run
>>> for 200,000 or more miles. This "holiday" will give us a chance to
>>> see if the Big 3 can make satisfactory progress i.e. restructuring.
>>
>> Or flush them down the tubes, cretin.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 3:09 am
From: Anonymous Infidel - the anti-political talking head

> they flushed themselves. For years they've been manufacturing cars no
> one wants
And yet, 75% of the cars on the road are theirs.
>
> and did not have the ability to transition to more practical vehicles.
???? It's not like the foreign autos are doing any better. All the car
companies are in the shitter due to the fact that consumer confidence
is dead...Killed by Democrats who bashed our economy into submission
and then gave us Fannie/Freddie.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hello Everyone
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/aadd28a9b8682e15?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 2:30 am
From: Salford1

My name's Pete (from UK). Just joined the group & thought i'd
introduce myself.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Execution and Expropriation of all Jews, effective as of 08.08.08 (www.
grishenkoff.com)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/fe2bd7bda3dfe136?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 4:58 am
From: Prime Minister of the Kingdom of God Serge Grishenkoff

Execution and Expropriation of all Jews, effective as of 08.08.08
(www.grishenkoff.com)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Next Bank Heist: DEBIT CARDS
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/535b1a94bef90ab2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 5:11 am
From: Shawn Hirn

In article
<7aa20bf5-f45e-4c5f-bc4a-cd774c4ab79f@o4g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
tweeny90655@mypacks.net wrote:

> On Dec 4, 12:48 pm, ric...@panix.com (Rich Greenberg) wrote:
>
> > I suspect that a major factor in the decision not to take cash is to
> > make the office less of a target for being held up/robbed.
>
>
> It also saves thenm the time and effort to write out a receipt for
> cash. I collect money for an organization and always encourage
> checks. It's proof for both of us.
>
> As to using credit cards, I'll still use mine whenever possible to
> get that reward credit. My debit card pays zilch.

I agree. I use my Visa card as much as possible. I pay it off in full
each month and I collect points toward air mileage. It also lets me
avoid the need to carry around as much cash with me, which makes it less
likely that I will be robbed of my money.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 6:24 am
From: "hallerb@aol.com"

> > As to using credit cards, �I'll still use mine whenever possible to
> > get that reward credit. �My debit card pays zilch.
>
> I agree. I use my Visa card as much as possible. I pay it off in full
> each month and I collect points toward air mileage. It also lets me
> avoid the need to carry around as much cash with me, which makes it less
> likely that I will be robbed of my money.

after doing a multi year look at reward cards I decided they arent
worth the bother.

plus a robber has no idea how much money your carrying.

I have heard of people with no cash getting robbed, and beat up
because thewy had no cash

==============================================================================
TOPIC: UGG Boot
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c261fce831dcf40e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 5:25 am
From: fdgerfe@126.com

We supply UGG boots , please click it :

http://www.nice110.com/Show.Asp?ClassId=188&id=547

Top quality, lowest price, safely shipping, Perfectly after service
and
Good public praise. Paypal is accepted. In interested, please dont
hesitate to contact with us.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Need Opinions on Ordering Magazine Subscriptions Online
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f670bbbba293e2c2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 5:32 am
From: fdgerfe@126.com

On 12月6日, 上午5时59分, Scruff <Scruffy...@aol.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Has anyone had any luck (good OR bad) ordering cheap magazines online,
> lately? If so, could you suggest a reliable site? I was going to
> give magazine subscriptions as gifts this Christmas, but I don't want
> the hassle of them not showing up.
>
> I saw a couple of sites with pretty cheap prices (maybe too cheap?)--
> anyone had any experience with these?
>
> MagazineDealsNow.com
> BestDealMagazines.com
> DeltaMagazines.com
>
> Thanks a bunch for any advice you can offer.

www.nice110.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How dare the whoreish maggots of Congress talk about unemployment when
20 million illegal aliens feed off the system.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/232c6485be398328?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 7 2008 3:15 am
From: wismel@yahoo.com

Insanity. And they want the American Sheeple to idly stand by while
they pump money into a doomed Detroit. Email your folks in Congres
suggesting small loans to enable Big 3 to file Chapter 11. Maybe they
can rebuild, maybe not.

http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/

ted

http://www.wvwnews.net/ Western Voices World News

http://www.numbersusa.com/ Numbers USA

==============================================================================

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "misc.consumers.frugal-living"
group.

To post to this group, visit http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to misc.consumers.frugal-living+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

To change the way you get mail from this group, visit:
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/subscribe?hl=en

To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to abuse@googlegroups.com

==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

Frugal Living

Sunday, December 7, 2008

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

No comments:

Post a Comment