http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en
misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* A1 Business Opportunity:) - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/0bd690221574884b?hl=en
* Purchase All Available US Autos - 22 messages, 9 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/8da7acb0e572db51?hl=en
* Wealth Management is the key - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/ee0a5003b9b3e613?hl=en
* Tracfone analog question. - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/76554cc728d7e996?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: A1 Business Opportunity:)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/0bd690221574884b?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 13 2008 11:27 pm
From: charoo21
Hello to all,
Greetings!
I personally invite you all to the money making site. Just need to
click the provided link
http://1milliondollarpyramid.com/index.php?posted=1&id=milka@nobulk.com*4
and start earning. Trust me it works :)
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Purchase All Available US Autos
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/8da7acb0e572db51?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 22 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 1:39 am
From: Alan Baker
In article
<f1c3f75e-142c-43a1-bc9c-43f7d2f99ab8@i24g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
lorad <lorad474@cs.com> wrote:
> On Dec 13, 4:43 pm, "Dave" <no...@nohow.not> wrote:
> > "lorad" <lorad...@cs.com> wrote in message
> >
> > news:1632a96d-2982-4282-8688-7248db34659d@t39g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> > On Dec 13, 7:20 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> > >Asian auto-maker propaganda [snipped]
> > >Rather than sending your dollars to Tokyo or Seoul, try to help your
> > >neighbors and yourself by buying a US made automobile.
> >
> > OK, I'll go buy a 2009 Toyota Camry. I'll get my wife a 2009 Acura RDX.
> > I'll buy my son a 2009 Hyundai Sonata. All made with pride by U.S. workers
> > in U.S. factories. :) -Dave
>
> You have already been informed that those are not US cars.
> They are jap and korean cars.
> When will that sink into your brainwashed traitorous yuppy head?
So your fellow citizens who make Hondas, Toyotas, and Hyundais are
somehow worth less than the ones who make Fords (for instance).
Face it: the big three had *decades* to start producing decent products
and they *chose* not to.
No bailout.
--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
<http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg>
== 2 of 22 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 1:40 am
From: Alan Baker
In article
<d81917a8-1c6d-4a9e-a0d3-bb252bf5036e@z6g2000pre.googlegroups.com>,
lorad <lorad474@cs.com> wrote:
> On Dec 13, 5:18 pm, clams_casino <PeterGrif...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
> > lorad wrote:
> >
> > >If we lose the auto industry in America, we also lose 1/7th of all US
> > >jobs.
> > >Think about that.
> >
> > I am - Does that include all the US plants run by Honda, Toyota, BMW,
> > Mercedes, etc? Does that figure also include all the car dealers who
> > provide more jobs than the car companies?
>
> Those are all foreign cars.. All of the benefits of manufacturing go
> back to their parent countries - not the US.
I'm sure the people who work in the plants will be glad to hear you
think they don't matter.
--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
<http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg>
== 3 of 22 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 3:07 am
From: Dave Head
On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 16:13:54 -0800 (PST), lorad <lorad474@cs.com> wrote:
>On Dec 13, 7:20 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>Asian auto-maker propaganda [snipped]
>
>Rather than sending your dollars to Tokyo or Seoul, try to help your
>neighbors and yourself by buying a US made automobile. As is well
>known.. keeping one dollar in your local economy, generates even more
>dollars as that money recirculates creating compounded wealth.
>
>The PRIMARY reason that the US economy is failing is due to the
>reduction of US manufacturing capability which results in fewer
>exports and more imports over the last 15 years.
>The US's wealth has been drained away.
>
>If we lose the auto industry in America, we also lose 1/7th of all US
>jobs.
>Think about that.
>
>The wall-street giveaway of 800 BILLION to a crook business sector
>might keep the house of cards aloft (and the super-rich richer) for a
>year or two... but ultimately matters will become EVEN WORSE when that
>money runs out.
>
>We will never solve our current economic problem by shuffling paper
>and pretending that paper shuffling actually creates wealth.. it
>doesn't.. it just re-distributes wealth upward to a select few.
>
>America needs to re-industrialize itself. It's the only way out.
>And there's no time start but NOW.. and by saving the US auto
>industry.
Everyone is into either hating the auto workers or hating the corporate
executives. They seem to forget we're all Americans, and hurting either of
these groups hurts the country.
I just did a price compare between a Jeep Liberty configured the way I would
buy it at $25,300 MSRP with a $750 factory rebate, and a Toyota FJ Cruiser, the
nearst thing to the liberty, that starts at $24,635 before options. They
don't seem to quote the options on their site. But... how does Jeep do that
with all those "incredibly expensive" auto workers? Maybe because the labor
rate thing, and its significance to the prices of the cars, is a myth? Hmmmm???
Yeah, I think so. I saw an article that quotes the _real_ paycheck-labor
average for the big 3 - $29.87 an hour. Toyota, when asked about their
American labor rate, said, "about $30."
And the supposed Japanese car fuel mileage advantage? Nope - Liberty gets 22
mpg, Toyota 20 mpg.
I have to be careful. When I go doing things like that price compare, I start
thinking about actually buying one. Damn car shopping is like crack -
addictive as hell.
== 4 of 22 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 3:16 am
From: necromancer <55_sux@worldofnecromancer_NO-SPAM_NO-WAY.com>
On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 16:13:54 -0800 (PST), lorad <lorad474@cs.com>
wrote:
>
>Rather than sending your dollars to Tokyo or Seoul, try to help your
>neighbors and yourself by buying a US made automobile. As is well
>known.. keeping one dollar in your local economy, generates even more
>dollars as that money recirculates creating compounded wealth.
Kia is spending US$1.2 Billion of its own money (not DC bailout,
"loans," that the big 3 are asking for) to bulid a major manufacturing
facility in West Point, GA that is estimated to employ up to 6000 of
my neighbors. This a few years after FORD bailed out of Georgia by
closing its Atlanta assembly line.
Fuck Detroit. Fuck Wall Street. And Fuck Bush.
--
"I don't want kids."
--Levi Johnston - biological father of
Sarah Palin's bastard grandchild.
== 5 of 22 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 3:15 am
From: Dave Head
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 01:39:44 -0800, Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> wrote:
>In article
><f1c3f75e-142c-43a1-bc9c-43f7d2f99ab8@i24g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> lorad <lorad474@cs.com> wrote:
>
>> On Dec 13, 4:43 pm, "Dave" <no...@nohow.not> wrote:
>> > "lorad" <lorad...@cs.com> wrote in message
>> >
>> > news:1632a96d-2982-4282-8688-7248db34659d@t39g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>> > On Dec 13, 7:20 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >
>> > >Asian auto-maker propaganda [snipped]
>> > >Rather than sending your dollars to Tokyo or Seoul, try to help your
>> > >neighbors and yourself by buying a US made automobile.
>> >
>> > OK, I'll go buy a 2009 Toyota Camry. I'll get my wife a 2009 Acura RDX.
>> > I'll buy my son a 2009 Hyundai Sonata. All made with pride by U.S. workers
>> > in U.S. factories. :) -Dave
>>
>> You have already been informed that those are not US cars.
>> They are jap and korean cars.
>> When will that sink into your brainwashed traitorous yuppy head?
>
>So your fellow citizens who make Hondas, Toyotas, and Hyundais are
>somehow worth less than the ones who make Fords (for instance).
>
>Face it: the big three had *decades* to start producing decent products
>and they *chose* not to.
They've _been_ producing great cars for quite a while now. I bought my '98
Jeep Cherokee used, at 45,000 miles (it was a leased car, someone else leased
it) and it has been a great car for as long as I've had it. At 11 years old,
it needs the air conditioner charged, but otherwise, it's great. I drove it
800 miles to a hunting cabin up by Traverse City, Mi from Virginia last month,
no problems at all. And there isn't much that goes thru snow the way it does -
I pull _other_ cars and trucks off of snowdrifts, etc. that my Jeep just laughs
at.
I'm _really_ gonna miss the option of buying a Jeep if our maufacturers go
away.
>No bailout.
It's a freakin loan, fer cryin' out loud...
== 6 of 22 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 3:15 am
From: Nate Nagel
Dave Head wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 01:39:44 -0800, Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> wrote:
>
>> In article
>> <f1c3f75e-142c-43a1-bc9c-43f7d2f99ab8@i24g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>> lorad <lorad474@cs.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Dec 13, 4:43 pm, "Dave" <no...@nohow.not> wrote:
>>>> "lorad" <lorad...@cs.com> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> news:1632a96d-2982-4282-8688-7248db34659d@t39g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On Dec 13, 7:20 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Asian auto-maker propaganda [snipped]
>>>>> Rather than sending your dollars to Tokyo or Seoul, try to help your
>>>>> neighbors and yourself by buying a US made automobile.
>>>> OK, I'll go buy a 2009 Toyota Camry. I'll get my wife a 2009 Acura RDX.
>>>> I'll buy my son a 2009 Hyundai Sonata. All made with pride by U.S. workers
>>>> in U.S. factories. :) -Dave
>>> You have already been informed that those are not US cars.
>>> They are jap and korean cars.
>>> When will that sink into your brainwashed traitorous yuppy head?
>> So your fellow citizens who make Hondas, Toyotas, and Hyundais are
>> somehow worth less than the ones who make Fords (for instance).
>>
>> Face it: the big three had *decades* to start producing decent products
>> and they *chose* not to.
>
> They've _been_ producing great cars for quite a while now. I bought my '98
> Jeep Cherokee used, at 45,000 miles (it was a leased car, someone else leased
> it) and it has been a great car for as long as I've had it. At 11 years old,
> it needs the air conditioner charged, but otherwise, it's great. I drove it
> 800 miles to a hunting cabin up by Traverse City, Mi from Virginia last month,
> no problems at all. And there isn't much that goes thru snow the way it does -
> I pull _other_ cars and trucks off of snowdrifts, etc. that my Jeep just laughs
> at.
>
> I'm _really_ gonna miss the option of buying a Jeep if our maufacturers go
> away.
You've already lost that option. The new Jeeps have no resemblance to
the old. I think the little, square Cherokee was the last "real" Jeep.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
== 7 of 22 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 3:20 am
From: necromancer <55_sux@worldofnecromancer_NO-SPAM_NO-WAY.com>
On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 14:33:13 -0800, The Real Bev
<bashley101+M@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Seeing as JD Power is an "initial quality" survey, that's about all they
>> *can* tell you.
>
>And people actually pay attention to that?
Well, that is someting that the automakers tend to run in their ads
from time to time....
--
I am necromancer and I approved this poast.
== 8 of 22 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 3:21 am
From: necromancer <55_sux@worldofnecromancer_NO-SPAM_NO-WAY.com>
On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 17:01:02 -0500, edward ohare
<edward_ohare@nospam.yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
>On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 08:20:34 -0700, wismel@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>Don't buy a Big 3 vehicle in 2009?
>
>Why not? They'll be real cheap at the bankruptcy sale.
Wait untill you have to find parts for it.
--
I am necromancer and I approved this poast.
== 9 of 22 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 3:24 am
From: Dave Head
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 06:16:00 -0500, necromancer
<55_sux@worldofnecromancer_NO-SPAM_NO-WAY.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 16:13:54 -0800 (PST), lorad <lorad474@cs.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>Rather than sending your dollars to Tokyo or Seoul, try to help your
>>neighbors and yourself by buying a US made automobile. As is well
>>known.. keeping one dollar in your local economy, generates even more
>>dollars as that money recirculates creating compounded wealth.
>
>Kia is spending US$1.2 Billion of its own money (not DC bailout,
>"loans," that the big 3 are asking for) to bulid a major manufacturing
>facility in West Point, GA that is estimated to employ up to 6000 of
>my neighbors. This a few years after FORD bailed out of Georgia by
>closing its Atlanta assembly line.
Yeah, and the money made there is going right back to Korea. Talk about
myopia.
>Fuck Detroit. Fuck Wall Street. And Fuck Bush.
Why don't you start hating your own foot? Advocating the destruction of
American manufacturing capability is pretty much shooting yourself in the foot.
The less manufacturing we have here, the less prosperity we have here. Wonder
why wages have stagnated since the 70's, and studies claim that our parents in
the 70's actually had a better standard of living than we do today? Well, its
because we have lost a lot of manufactuering. There's 3 ways to make wealth -
grow something (farming), dig something (mining), and build something
(manufacturing.) Any one of these three that we lose should be done only in
spite of everyone in the country doing everything we can do retain it, as if
our own personal financial well-being depends on it, because it does.
== 10 of 22 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 3:56 am
From: BikeFan
lorad wrote:
> On Dec 13, 3:08 pm, BikeFan <mistonthelo...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> So, the question is, are all those Detroit Big three leaders part of a
>> conspiracy to kill the Unions? Have they opened their books to PROVE
>> to Congress that they are busted?
>>
>
> Get a brain, y'all.
They'd have to do it if they requested a billion dollar loan from a
bank. If they want this money from the taxpayer, they should show us
everything that they would show a bank to justify this bailout money.
--
BikeFan
To the GOP, Neocons and Bush from Oliver Cromwell:
"You have been sat too long here for any good you have been doing.
Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!"
== 11 of 22 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 4:33 am
From: "Dave"
>
> OK, I'll go buy a 2009 Toyota Camry. I'll get my wife a 2009 Acura RDX.
> I'll buy my son a 2009 Hyundai Sonata. All made with pride by U.S. workers
> in U.S. factories. :) -Dave
>You have already been informed that those are not US cars.
Let's see... they are built, sold, driven and recycled, all in the U.S.
What is NOT U.S. about them?
>They are jap and korean cars.
Oh I see, you object to good designs. What a moron.
>When will that sink into your brainwashed traitorous yuppy head?
I'm brainwashed and a traitor for supporting U.S. autoworkers with my
hard-earned money? I guess you'd rather all those U.S. autoworkers be
unemployed? -Dave
== 12 of 22 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 4:39 am
From: "Dave"
>>Kia is spending US$1.2 Billion of its own money (not DC bailout,
>>"loans," that the big 3 are asking for) to bulid a major manufacturing
>>facility in West Point, GA that is estimated to employ up to 6000 of
>>my neighbors. This a few years after FORD bailed out of Georgia by
>>closing its Atlanta assembly line.
>
> Yeah, and the money made there is going right back to Korea. Talk about
> myopia.
I take it that ONLY Korean Citizens will be working at that KIA plant in
Georgia? -Dave
== 13 of 22 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 4:59 am
From: Nate Nagel
Dave Head wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 06:16:00 -0500, necromancer
> <55_sux@worldofnecromancer_NO-SPAM_NO-WAY.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 16:13:54 -0800 (PST), lorad <lorad474@cs.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Rather than sending your dollars to Tokyo or Seoul, try to help your
>>> neighbors and yourself by buying a US made automobile. As is well
>>> known.. keeping one dollar in your local economy, generates even more
>>> dollars as that money recirculates creating compounded wealth.
>> Kia is spending US$1.2 Billion of its own money (not DC bailout,
>> "loans," that the big 3 are asking for) to bulid a major manufacturing
>> facility in West Point, GA that is estimated to employ up to 6000 of
>> my neighbors. This a few years after FORD bailed out of Georgia by
>> closing its Atlanta assembly line.
>
> Yeah, and the money made there is going right back to Korea. Talk about
> myopia.
>
>> Fuck Detroit. Fuck Wall Street. And Fuck Bush.
>
> Why don't you start hating your own foot? Advocating the destruction of
> American manufacturing capability is pretty much shooting yourself in the foot.
> The less manufacturing we have here, the less prosperity we have here. Wonder
> why wages have stagnated since the 70's, and studies claim that our parents in
> the 70's actually had a better standard of living than we do today? Well, its
> because we have lost a lot of manufactuering. There's 3 ways to make wealth -
> grow something (farming), dig something (mining), and build something
> (manufacturing.) Any one of these three that we lose should be done only in
> spite of everyone in the country doing everything we can do retain it, as if
> our own personal financial well-being depends on it, because it does.
The problem is that the Big Three feel entitled to that kind of
attention and indeed have been riding on it since the early 70's, all
the while producing new model after new model that is just as
uninspiring, overpriced, and unreliable as the one it replaces.
Goodwill only goes so far and the Big Three have made little effort to
produce appealing products.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
== 14 of 22 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 6:29 am
From: "Daniel T."
lorad <lorad474@cs.com> wrote:
> On Dec 13, 6:00 pm, "Daniel T." <danie...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > lorad <lorad...@cs.com> wrote:
> > > On Dec 13, 7:20 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> > > If we lose the auto industry in America, we also lose 1/7th of all US
> > > jobs.
> > > Think about that.
> >
> > Really? How do you figure that? What does "losing the auto industry"
> > even mean?
>
> Bumpkin,
> It means that yet more US money wiill be leaving the country..
> Which is the primary reason why the US is now in an economic
> depression.
Non-Sequitur. Let me ask another way... If GM declares bankruptcy, but
continues to build cars (just like the airlines declared bankruptcy but
continued to fly planes,) is it "lost"? And who is it lost to? and how
many jobs would that entail? I seriously doubt that 1/7th of the US
population works for three companies.
== 15 of 22 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 6:35 am
From: "Daniel T."
lorad <lorad474@cs.com> wrote:
> On Dec 13, 5:18 pm, clams_casino <PeterGrif...@DrunkinClam.com>
> wrote:
> > lorad wrote:
> >
> > > If we lose the auto industry in America, we also lose 1/7th of
> > > all US jobs. Think about that.
> >
> > I am - Does that include all the US plants run by Honda, Toyota,
> > BMW, Mercedes, etc? Does that figure also include all the car
> > dealers who provide more jobs than the car companies?
>
> Those are all foreign cars.. All of the benefits of manufacturing go
> back to their parent countries - not the US.
>
> > Does that assume all production will go overseas and no one will
> > be driving (buying cars) in the US?
>
> Don't be obtuse.. If all we have is foreign cars.. then all our
> money will also go back overseas.
And if the government borrows money to bail the big three out, who do
you think they have to borrow it from? Where do all the interest
payments go?... Overseas...
== 16 of 22 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 6:39 am
From: edward ohare
On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 22:07:28 -0800 (PST), lorad <lorad474@cs.com>
wrote:
>On Dec 13, 4:43 pm, "Dave" <no...@nohow.not> wrote:
>> "lorad" <lorad...@cs.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1632a96d-2982-4282-8688-7248db34659d@t39g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>> On Dec 13, 7:20 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>> >Asian auto-maker propaganda [snipped]
>> >Rather than sending your dollars to Tokyo or Seoul, try to help your
>> >neighbors and yourself by buying a US made automobile.
>>
>> OK, I'll go buy a 2009 Toyota Camry. I'll get my wife a 2009 Acura RDX.
>> I'll buy my son a 2009 Hyundai Sonata. All made with pride by U.S. workers
>> in U.S. factories. :) -Dave
>
>You have already been informed that those are not US cars.
>They are jap and korean cars.
>When will that sink into your brainwashed traitorous yuppy head?
Well, let's all go to the Chevy dealer and get a real America car.
That Chevy Aveo looks like the ticket.
== 17 of 22 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 6:53 am
From: "Dave"
>>> OK, I'll go buy a 2009 Toyota Camry. I'll get my wife a 2009 Acura RDX.
>>> I'll buy my son a 2009 Hyundai Sonata. All made with pride by U.S.
>>> workers
>>> in U.S. factories. :) -Dave
>>
>>You have already been informed that those are not US cars.
>>They are jap and korean cars.
>>When will that sink into your brainwashed traitorous yuppy head?
>
> Well, let's all go to the Chevy dealer and get a real America car.
> That Chevy Aveo looks like the ticket.
Then go next door to the Pontiac dealer to buy a Vibe. :) -Dave
== 18 of 22 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 6:52 am
From: Nate Nagel
Dave wrote:
>>>> OK, I'll go buy a 2009 Toyota Camry. I'll get my wife a 2009 Acura RDX.
>>>> I'll buy my son a 2009 Hyundai Sonata. All made with pride by U.S.
>>>> workers
>>>> in U.S. factories. :) -Dave
>>>
>>> You have already been informed that those are not US cars.
>>> They are jap and korean cars.
>>> When will that sink into your brainwashed traitorous yuppy head?
>>
>> Well, let's all go to the Chevy dealer and get a real America car.
>> That Chevy Aveo looks like the ticket.
>
> Then go next door to the Pontiac dealer to buy a Vibe. :) -Dave
Well, the Solstice is kind of appealing...
Actually, I do see a trend. All of the appealing GM offerings seem to
be warmed over Opels or Holdens. Sad.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
== 19 of 22 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 6:56 am
From: Dave Head
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 07:59:56 -0500, Nate Nagel <njnagel@roosters.net> wrote:
>Dave Head wrote:
>> On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 06:16:00 -0500, necromancer
>> <55_sux@worldofnecromancer_NO-SPAM_NO-WAY.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 16:13:54 -0800 (PST), lorad <lorad474@cs.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Rather than sending your dollars to Tokyo or Seoul, try to help your
>>>> neighbors and yourself by buying a US made automobile. As is well
>>>> known.. keeping one dollar in your local economy, generates even more
>>>> dollars as that money recirculates creating compounded wealth.
>>> Kia is spending US$1.2 Billion of its own money (not DC bailout,
>>> "loans," that the big 3 are asking for) to bulid a major manufacturing
>>> facility in West Point, GA that is estimated to employ up to 6000 of
>>> my neighbors. This a few years after FORD bailed out of Georgia by
>>> closing its Atlanta assembly line.
>>
>> Yeah, and the money made there is going right back to Korea. Talk about
>> myopia.
>>
>>> Fuck Detroit. Fuck Wall Street. And Fuck Bush.
>>
>> Why don't you start hating your own foot? Advocating the destruction of
>> American manufacturing capability is pretty much shooting yourself in the foot.
>> The less manufacturing we have here, the less prosperity we have here. Wonder
>> why wages have stagnated since the 70's, and studies claim that our parents in
>> the 70's actually had a better standard of living than we do today? Well, its
>> because we have lost a lot of manufactuering. There's 3 ways to make wealth -
>> grow something (farming), dig something (mining), and build something
>> (manufacturing.) Any one of these three that we lose should be done only in
>> spite of everyone in the country doing everything we can do retain it, as if
>> our own personal financial well-being depends on it, because it does.
>
>The problem is that the Big Three feel entitled to that kind of
>attention and indeed have been riding on it since the early 70's, all
>the while producing new model after new model that is just as
>uninspiring,
I dunno, the Liberty that I just investigated I fould to be fairly exciting. I
was only looking for a price comaparison with something similar from Toyota,
and ended up wanting to buy it. It looks really sweet.
>overpriced,
The Liberty was similarly priced to the Toyota equivalent.
>and unreliable as the one it replaces.
My '98 Jeep Cherokee has been pretty reilable. I've taken it on lots of long
drives, and it hasn't let me down yet. I would expect a 2008 to do no worse.
>Goodwill only goes so far and the Big Three have made little effort to
>produce appealing products.
Disagree. The Jeep Cherokee was, I think, the best answer to a snow-going SUV
that I could have bought at the time, and the Liberty looks like the answer
today. At 22 mpg, it beat the Toyota's 20 mpg as well. That's 10 percent
better than the Toyota.
>nate
== 20 of 22 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 6:57 am
From: edward ohare
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 09:29:08 -0500, "Daniel T."
<daniel_t@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Non-Sequitur. Let me ask another way... If GM declares bankruptcy, but
>continues to build cars (just like the airlines declared bankruptcy but
>continued to fly planes,) is it "lost"?
I have seen this thought several times and need to point out that GM
etc in bankruptcy reorganizations are **not** like the airlines.
Airline tickets have a short expected useful life, no need for a
supply of repair parts, no need for a warranty, no concern for resale
value, and cost comparatively little. People know reorganization
sometimes often does not work and because of the issues I've
identified, bankruptcy reorganization **does not** work for
manufacturers of duable goods.
Wagoner has said bankruptcy is not an option. He's right. But I also
think that faced with that as the only choice, he'll try it... one
idiotic last roll of the dice.
== 21 of 22 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 7:02 am
From: edward ohare
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 11:24:11 GMT, Dave Head <rally2xs@att.net> wrote:
>Why don't you start hating your own foot? Advocating the destruction of
>American manufacturing capability is pretty much shooting yourself in the foot.
Who is advocating? Its happened.
>The less manufacturing we have here, the less prosperity we have here. Wonder
>why wages have stagnated since the 70's, and studies claim that our parents in
>the 70's actually had a better standard of living than we do today? Well, its
>because we have lost a lot of manufactuering. There's 3 ways to make wealth -
>grow something (farming), dig something (mining), and build something
>(manufacturing.) Any one of these three that we lose should be done only in
>spite of everyone in the country doing everything we can do retain it, as if
>our own personal financial well-being depends on it, because it does.
Subsidizing anything is a loser. Because of world wide overcapacity
and because they are the weakest of the large automakers, Detroit
requires permanent subsidies to survive... unless capacity is reduced
by letting some of them fail.
== 22 of 22 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 7:04 am
From: clams_casino
lorad wrote:
>On Dec 13, 3:41 pm, clams_casino <PeterGrif...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Brent wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On 2008-12-13, clams_casino <PeterGrif...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Even if GM was able to provide a vehicle with equal (or even improved)
>>>>quality as Honda, Toyota & Nissan, I suspect it will take generations
>>>>before they'll be able to reverse their generally accepted reputation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>After all of this you agree, it is perceptions rather than facts that
>>>are the driving factors.
>>>
>>>
>>No - I thought I was quite clear stating I was completely WRONG using
>>the word "perception".
>>
>>Substitute "belief". A few seem to be believe (perception?) that GM is
>>making high quality vehicles, equal to better than their competition.
>>Many more "believe" they make inferior quality vehicles. The facts are
>>that they have been producing lower quality products for many years, as
>>strongly indicated by their 50% loss of market over perhaps 25 years.
>>They have a (well earned) reputation for inferior quality that will take
>>generations to overcome, assuming they are currently capable of
>>producing vehicles..
>>
>>
>
>Well then.. screw the erroneous perception/belief crap and buy a US
>made vehicle to determine reality.
>
>
I do - I buy Honda products - made in the US..
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Wealth Management is the key
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/ee0a5003b9b3e613?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 6:52 am
From: "Macuser"
Not if everything across the board falls 40%.
"Thrift is sexy."
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Tracfone analog question.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/76554cc728d7e996?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 7:05 am
From: "'nam vet."
My Tracfone uses U.S.cellular and I assume is an analog device.
When in February all services will be digital. Will my phone and minutes
be obsolete?
--
When the Power of Love,replaces the Love of Power.
that's Evolution.
==============================================================================
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "misc.consumers.frugal-living"
group.
To post to this group, visit http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to misc.consumers.frugal-living+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
To change the way you get mail from this group, visit:
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/subscribe?hl=en
To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to abuse@googlegroups.com
==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en
No comments:
Post a Comment