http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en
misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* Selling artwork in a bad market - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d3b0c99328f52aea?hl=en
* Tracfone analog question. - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/76554cc728d7e996?hl=en
* Purchase All Available US Autos - 17 messages, 7 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/8da7acb0e572db51?hl=en
* Nazi t-shirt sold at Walmart - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b367e5bdf9d178bd?hl=en
* how 'bout a "new' 1957 VW? - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f5f1ebefb4f9a6ac?hl=en
* Customer suffering diarrhea shits herself because Jo-Ann Fabrics would not
let her use the bathroom. - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3492db825691db70?hl=en
* Saving Money on Calendars - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9b326729403ee2be?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Selling artwork in a bad market
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d3b0c99328f52aea?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 11:37 am
From: "NotMe"
"Macuser" <spamisaluncheon@meat.com> wrote in message
news:ebF0l.1310$c35.137@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
: Can anybody give me tips on selling original artwork in a bad market? I
: have a whole room full of work to deal with, and could use the tips. Most
: recently, an antique painting that was accepted by the Doyle gallery in
NYC
: for auction sold for less than half the appraised price. The auction
: happened to take place on the day the stock market fell 700 points, so
this
: probably affected the outcome. Just my luck.
:
: And what have you got?
:
This is geared more to the commercial side but the principles apply
everywhere.
A heads up:
Check out www.no-spec.com for some of what you'll run into on CL and what
other creative folk are doing to address the abuse.
Check out www.gag.org their handbook ($35 at most bookstores) is a gold
mine. Especially the section on contracts.
Good luck and don't let anyone sell you short.
As to fine art: We sell only first sale right (we retain all copyrights).
done that for over 40 years.
Aside from a skill set you need a decent business plan and a commitment to
stick to it.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Tracfone analog question.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/76554cc728d7e996?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 12:06 pm
From: "NotMe"
"'nam vet." <georgewkspam@humboldt1.com> wrote in message
news:georgewkspam-1A6874.07050514122008@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...
: My Tracfone uses U.S.cellular and I assume is an analog device.
: When in February all services will be digital. Will my phone and minutes
: be obsolete?
Depends. Most phones produced today (and for may years) are all duel mode.
Some may not support analog at all.
Might mention that Net10 is basically the same service but for $0.10 per
min.
An aside 'welcome home'
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 12:58 pm
From: E Z Peaces
NotMe wrote:
>
> Depends. Most phones produced today (and for may years) are all duel mode.
> Some may not support analog at all.
>
Duel mode? Do you need a permit?
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Purchase All Available US Autos
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/8da7acb0e572db51?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 17 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 12:42 pm
From: "Dave"
>>So, what's wrong with Kia having faith in US workers and US
>>manufacturing in general by locating their operations in a state that
>>Detroit abandoned?
>
> The problem with the employment of people to produce automobiles:
> They've saturated the market with stuff that is near obsolete by the
> time the buyers drive off the sales lot.
>
> DCI
OK, tell me... of the 2009 or 2008 model years, which automobiles do you
believe are obsolete by the time the buyers drive off the sales lot? I
don't care who designed it or where it was built. Just name one model of
automobile that is obsolete by the time it is purchased. (this should be
good) -Dave
== 2 of 17 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 12:51 pm
From: never@millions.com
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 15:42:50 -0500, "Dave" <noway@nohow.not> wrote:
>>>So, what's wrong with Kia having faith in US workers and US
>>>manufacturing in general by locating their operations in a state that
>>>Detroit abandoned?
>>
>> The problem with the employment of people to produce automobiles:
>> They've saturated the market with stuff that is near obsolete by the
>> time the buyers drive off the sales lot.
>>
>> DCI
>
>OK, tell me... of the 2009 or 2008 model years, which automobiles do you
>believe are obsolete by the time the buyers drive off the sales lot? I
>don't care who designed it or where it was built. Just name one model of
>automobile that is obsolete by the time it is purchased. (this should be
>good) -Dave
All of the makes and modles. Can you name just one model that is
produced and priced exactly the same the following year?
== 3 of 17 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 12:59 pm
From: "Dave"
>>OK, tell me... of the 2009 or 2008 model years, which automobiles do you
>>believe are obsolete by the time the buyers drive off the sales lot? I
>>don't care who designed it or where it was built. Just name one model of
>>automobile that is obsolete by the time it is purchased. (this should be
>>good) -Dave
>
> All of the makes and modles. Can you name just one model that is
> produced and priced exactly the same the following year?
So let me get this straight... it is your argument that when toyota changes
the tail-light design of the Camry, the previous tail-light design meant the
previous model Camry is suddenly obsolete? Often the only change from one
model year to the next is cosmetic, such as different style tail-lights.
But other than hybrids, automobile technology hasn't changed significantly
in ummmm, over a century? That's why there are no cars released in current
model year that are obsolete. -Dave
== 4 of 17 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 1:43 pm
From: never@millions.com
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 15:59:51 -0500, "Dave" <noway@nohow.not> wrote:
>>>OK, tell me... of the 2009 or 2008 model years, which automobiles do you
>>>believe are obsolete by the time the buyers drive off the sales lot? I
>>>don't care who designed it or where it was built. Just name one model of
>>>automobile that is obsolete by the time it is purchased. (this should be
>>>good) -Dave
>>
>> All of the makes and modles. Can you name just one model that is
>> produced and priced exactly the same the following year?
>
>So let me get this straight... it is your argument that when toyota changes
>the tail-light design of the Camry, the previous tail-light design meant the
>previous model Camry is suddenly obsolete? Often the only change from one
>model year to the next is cosmetic, such as different style tail-lights.
>But other than hybrids, automobile technology hasn't changed significantly
>in ummmm, over a century? That's why there are no cars released in current
>model year that are obsolete. -Dave
That's a good start!
In regard to the echnology issue, doesn't play into the reasons the
Big three snet their CEO's via private Lear Jets to Washington to
plead for a bailout? Their products are obsolete. Play it one way or
the other, it all comes out the same. Today's cosmetic is tomorrow's
yesterdday.
DCI
== 5 of 17 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 1:46 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
hallerb@aol.com wrote:
> lets face FACTS
You wouldnt know what a real FACT was if it bit you on your lard arse.
> the US can no longer manufacture goods at a profit,
Bare faced pig ignorant lie.
> with all the health care, environmental, taxes, and other costs to
> compete with countries paying 3 bucks a hour american luxury pay..........
Have fun explaining the profitable US goods manufacturing operations.
> we are well on our way to be a 3rd class poor country...........
You wouldnt know what a real 3rd class poor country was if it bit you on your lard arse.
> our future ius all downhill.
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys.
> china is about to export cars to our country for 8 grand with 100,000 mile warranty
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys.
> that will be for big spenders
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys.
> india is about to start selling cars here for 3 grand.
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys.
> in both cases all they need is a dealer network which this auto crisis will provide..
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys.
> did you know near 40,000 chinese miners died last year in mining accidents?
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys.
> the free trade approach scred our country:(
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys.
== 6 of 17 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 1:52 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
Eeyore wrote:
> lorad wrote:
>
>> The reason that the asian cars are more competetive is that their
>> governments provide their workers with universal health care (cha-
>> ching).
> Not sure that's true actually.
Its a lie, particularly with Japan.
> Certainly for US made Hondas Nissans and Toyotas.
> Anyway, nothing stopping the USA doing the same !
> Universal health care is a fraction of the cost of private btw.
== 7 of 17 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 1:55 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
The Real Bev wrote
> Nate Nagel wrote
>> The Real Bev wrote
>>> lorad wrote
>>>> PS: For the rest of you foreign agents and economic traitors in
>>>> this thread.. american cars are just fine.. they got 2 out of 3 of
>>>> JD Powers top quality ratings. So please stop your hallucinigenic
>>>> squawking.
>>> Who answers Powers' surveys? I posit that the 'average user'
>>> figures something is high-quality if it's nice-looking and lasts a
>>> year without problems.
>> Seeing as JD Power is an "initial quality" survey, that's about all they *can* tell you.
> And people actually pay attention to that?
Yep, some do, most obviously those stupid enough to replace their car every year.
>> I'd like someone to run a survey on 10 or 20 year old cars.
> The Consumer Reports year-end guide gives ratings for older cars, but they aren't all that informative --
> "transmission" could be either a minor adjustment or a complete rebuild.
Yeah, close to useless and their readers/survey completers are a VERY biased sample anyway.
== 8 of 17 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 1:56 pm
From: edward ohare
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 18:19:51 GMT, Dave Head <rally2xs@att.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 13:02:16 -0500, edward ohare
><edward_ohare@nospam.yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>Well, repair parts will be manufactured as long as the need exists,
>>
>>
>>That is correct but most people think that isn't the case. So the
>>idea they can't get parts will keep them away.
>
>No, I think that is not correct in the cases of things that require large
>foundaries to build.
That is not correct and I'm not going to explain it again.
>>I didn't put that number out.
>>
>>As is often the case, though, people add but don't subtract, subtract
>>but don't add. The assumption in all lost employment figures I see is
>>that none of the cars that would have been sold by GM will be sold by
>>anyone. This is clearly and obviously incorrect.
>>
>>Somebody has to go because the industry is overcapacity even during
>>good times. The problem is that if they all go at once then the
>>industry is undercapacity even for current times. And its grossly
>>undercapacity for trucks and vans... even when you take out the people
>>who have been buying personal use trucks that aren't going to do that
>>in the near future.
>>
>>I have written my Representative and Senators telling them they can't
>>save them all and they will need to pick a company or two. But that's
>>too hot a decision for them.
>
>We should tell them to do everything they can to save and improve the AMERICAN
>car companies, and if some company has to leave the market, my choice is Suzuki
Sorry. The American consumers have already chosen.
>or some other or combination of other foreign makes that succumb to an
>onslaught of high quality, affordabe AMERICAN cars.
You asked for it? You got it. Toyota.
> Everyone here in this
>country should do everything they can to bring that about.
Really. All I can say is its a little to late to do that now.
== 9 of 17 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 2:06 pm
From: Dave Head
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 16:56:16 -0500, edward ohare
<edward_ohare@nospam.yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
>On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 18:19:51 GMT, Dave Head <rally2xs@att.net> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 13:02:16 -0500, edward ohare
>><edward_ohare@nospam.yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>>Well, repair parts will be manufactured as long as the need exists,
>>>
>>>
>>>That is correct but most people think that isn't the case. So the
>>>idea they can't get parts will keep them away.
>>
>>No, I think that is not correct in the cases of things that require large
>>foundaries to build.
>
>That is not correct and I'm not going to explain it again.
That's OK, 'cuz I believed your last explanation was incorrect, anyway.
>>>I didn't put that number out.
>>>
>>>As is often the case, though, people add but don't subtract, subtract
>>>but don't add. The assumption in all lost employment figures I see is
>>>that none of the cars that would have been sold by GM will be sold by
>>>anyone. This is clearly and obviously incorrect.
>>>
>>>Somebody has to go because the industry is overcapacity even during
>>>good times. The problem is that if they all go at once then the
>>>industry is undercapacity even for current times. And its grossly
>>>undercapacity for trucks and vans... even when you take out the people
>>>who have been buying personal use trucks that aren't going to do that
>>>in the near future.
>>>
>>>I have written my Representative and Senators telling them they can't
>>>save them all and they will need to pick a company or two. But that's
>>>too hot a decision for them.
>>
>>We should tell them to do everything they can to save and improve the AMERICAN
>>car companies, and if some company has to leave the market, my choice is Suzuki
>
>Sorry. The American consumers have already chosen.
Well, I'm for taking that option away from them. Its not good for our nation.
>>or some other or combination of other foreign makes that succumb to an
>>onslaught of high quality, affordabe AMERICAN cars.
>
>You asked for it? You got it. Toyota.
That ain't an American car. American cars are built by companies that have
their headquarters in the USA.
>> Everyone here in this
>>country should do everything they can to bring that about.
>
>
>Really. All I can say is its a little to late to do that now.
Only if we give up...
== 10 of 17 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 2:10 pm
From: edward ohare
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 14:00:55 -0500, "Daniel T."
<daniel_t@earthlink.net> wrote:
>edward ohare <edward_ohare@nospam.yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
>> On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 10:39:23 -0500, "Daniel T."
>> <daniel_t@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> > resale value has little/nothing to do with whether the company
>> > exists.
>>
>> Have to disagree here.
>
>We have a classic car sales dealership in my town... The fact that none
>of the cars on the showroom are made anymore doesn't seem to hurt their
>resale value...
How does the value of toys relate to the value of modern
transportation?
>
>> For starters, there will be little if any financing available.
>> Default setting for a bank is going to be "we don't loan money on
>> those". That will necessariy drive prices down.
>
>Why do you think the banks would do that?
Because that's what they've done in the past. See Daewoo.
>> They ought to announce this as part of whatever it is they're going
>> to do (if anything) rather than after the fact saying "oh, OK, GM's
>> gone, we'll cover your warranties because we feel sorry for you.
>
>IMHO, if a company is so big that the USA can't afford to let it go out
>of business, it needs to be broken up into smaller companies.
That's the way to efficiency! <G>
== 11 of 17 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 2:18 pm
From: edward ohare
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 18:25:48 GMT, Dave Head <rally2xs@att.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 13:06:00 -0500, edward ohare
><edward_ohare@nospam.yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
>>Well, maybe that's because, unlike some other coutries, we spend
>>bunches of money on useless government functions and a bloated
>>obsolete military.
>
>Heeeyyyy... that obsolete military can still kick ass all over the globe if
>the need arises.
No proof of that. Plenty to the contrary.
> Is this knee-jerk, liberal bias against the military here, or
>what are you saying is "obsolete" and "bloated?" Certainly not the personnel,
>of which there probably should be 1.5X the number there are now. Those that
>are serving are overworked / overdeployed. The deserve time at home with their
>familes. But they don't get it. That's wrong.
Fine. Bring them home. All of them. From Iraq, Afghanistan,
Germany, Japan, South Korea, and whatever other places I've forgotten
that the America Empire exists. Right now. I'm for it.
== 12 of 17 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 2:21 pm
From: Alan Baker
In article <4l91l.7672$JU5.3612@newsfe20.iad>,
clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
> lorad wrote:
>
> >On Dec 13, 2:35 pm, Alan Baker <alangba...@telus.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>In article <gi1cl1$4s...@news.motzarella.org>, "Dave" <no...@nohow.not>
> >>wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>>No. "Honda et al" have been very good at producing cars that don't
> >>>>*need* much care.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>Have you ever owned a Malibu? I have. It doesn't *need* much care to keep
> >>>it running and looking good for many years. Same as a Camry or Accord.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Not even close. The build quality, the fit and finish, the quality of
> >>components...
> >>
> >>...all are inferior to a Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Prove it... and compare prices while you are at it, bakersan.
> >
> >
>
> It's not the original price that matters - it's the original cost plus
> cost of repairs and maintainance divided by the total miles driven that
> matters.
Paying less for shit still leaves you with...
...shit.
--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
<http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg>
== 13 of 17 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 2:21 pm
From: Alan Baker
In article <gi27j1$a9h$1@news.motzarella.org>,
The Real Bev <bashley101+M@gmail.com> wrote:
> Alan Baker wrote:
> > In article <gi1l86$ppm$3@news.motzarella.org>,
> > The Real Bev <bashley101+M@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Alan Baker wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>> You're really stretching the matter to avoid reality, aren't you?
> >>>> No, just pointing out that there are vehicle types your chosen makes
> >>>> ignore.
> >>> Nope. Just trying to ignore that the S2000 is a better vehicle than
> >>> *any* american made RWD vehicle. Yes: including the Corvette.
> >> I thought that the Corvette was thought to be cheaply made and that the
> >> Camaro was an even cheaper version. Still, Camaros strike some chord
> >> deep within my soul...
> >
> > Early Lotuses strike a chord with me...
> >
> > ...but it doesn't mean that they weren't POS when it came to quality.
>
> Sometimes styling counts way more than it ought to :-(
Absolutely.
I just don't confuse it with what is actually a quality automobile. :-)
--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
<http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg>
== 14 of 17 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 2:22 pm
From: edward ohare
On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 18:29:01 GMT, Dave Head <rally2xs@att.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 13:11:08 -0500, edward ohare
><edward_ohare@nospam.yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
>>And the hidden cost of this? Subsizing a failure into success costs
>>something somewhere else.
>
>Well, whatever it was, it was obviously worth it to the French. They're about
>to run their only competition out of business, if we allow that to happen.
I don't consider a 50 50 market split to be running your competition
out of business. But maybe the French could afford to subsidize
Airbus since they we're pissing money away maintaining a huge military
80% useless against any potential enemy that's existed in the last 20
years.
>>Then what if other countires subsize their in trouble but stronger
>>automakers? At that point it isn't competition between companies
>>anymore. Its competition between government subsidies.
>
>We can win that one.
With the current US debt?
>>I haven't bought a car not assembled in North America by GM, Ford, or
>>Chrysler in 30 years. I've been happy with my purchases. Many others
>>have not. Its over for at least one, and possibly two of the Detroit
>>companies.
>
>Only if we don't try...
More "stay the course" talk.
== 15 of 17 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 2:24 pm
From: Alan Baker
In article <b0r9k4l04n8fleoqds62m9s749ida9ke83@4ax.com>,
Dave Head <rally2xs@att.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 06:16:00 -0500, necromancer
> <55_sux@worldofnecromancer_NO-SPAM_NO-WAY.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 16:13:54 -0800 (PST), lorad <lorad474@cs.com>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>Rather than sending your dollars to Tokyo or Seoul, try to help your
> >>neighbors and yourself by buying a US made automobile. As is well
> >>known.. keeping one dollar in your local economy, generates even more
> >>dollars as that money recirculates creating compounded wealth.
> >
> >Kia is spending US$1.2 Billion of its own money (not DC bailout,
> >"loans," that the big 3 are asking for) to bulid a major manufacturing
> >facility in West Point, GA that is estimated to employ up to 6000 of
> >my neighbors. This a few years after FORD bailed out of Georgia by
> >closing its Atlanta assembly line.
>
> Yeah, and the money made there is going right back to Korea. Talk about
> myopia.
Really. The money earned by those 6000 people goes back to Korea, does
it? The money made by all the local suppliers goes back to Korea, does
it?
LOL
--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
<http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg>
== 16 of 17 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 2:25 pm
From: Alan Baker
In article <3kp9k4d9g0a4h7cja87mtof46mrp53647h@4ax.com>,
Dave Head <rally2xs@att.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 16:13:54 -0800 (PST), lorad <lorad474@cs.com> wrote:
>
> >On Dec 13, 7:20 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> >Asian auto-maker propaganda [snipped]
> >
> >Rather than sending your dollars to Tokyo or Seoul, try to help your
> >neighbors and yourself by buying a US made automobile. As is well
> >known.. keeping one dollar in your local economy, generates even more
> >dollars as that money recirculates creating compounded wealth.
> >
> >The PRIMARY reason that the US economy is failing is due to the
> >reduction of US manufacturing capability which results in fewer
> >exports and more imports over the last 15 years.
> >The US's wealth has been drained away.
> >
> >If we lose the auto industry in America, we also lose 1/7th of all US
> >jobs.
> >Think about that.
> >
> >The wall-street giveaway of 800 BILLION to a crook business sector
> >might keep the house of cards aloft (and the super-rich richer) for a
> >year or two... but ultimately matters will become EVEN WORSE when that
> >money runs out.
> >
> >We will never solve our current economic problem by shuffling paper
> >and pretending that paper shuffling actually creates wealth.. it
> >doesn't.. it just re-distributes wealth upward to a select few.
> >
> >America needs to re-industrialize itself. It's the only way out.
> >And there's no time start but NOW.. and by saving the US auto
> >industry.
>
> Everyone is into either hating the auto workers or hating the corporate
> executives. They seem to forget we're all Americans, and hurting either of
> these groups hurts the country.
>
> I just did a price compare between a Jeep Liberty configured the way I would
> buy it at $25,300 MSRP with a $750 factory rebate, and a Toyota FJ Cruiser,
> the
> nearst thing to the liberty, that starts at $24,635 before options. They
> don't seem to quote the options on their site. But... how does Jeep do that
> with all those "incredibly expensive" auto workers? Maybe because the labor
> rate thing, and its significance to the prices of the cars, is a myth?
> Hmmmm???
> Yeah, I think so. I saw an article that quotes the _real_ paycheck-labor
> average for the big 3 - $29.87 an hour. Toyota, when asked about their
> American labor rate, said, "about $30."
>
> And the supposed Japanese car fuel mileage advantage? Nope - Liberty gets 22
> mpg, Toyota 20 mpg.
>
> I have to be careful. When I go doing things like that price compare, I
> start
> thinking about actually buying one. Damn car shopping is like crack -
> addictive as hell.
What are the options you added to the Jeep?
Let's see if they're not standard on the Toyota...
--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
<http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg>
== 17 of 17 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 2:46 pm
From: "hallerb@aol.com"
> Face it - in 20 years will there be any of today's (affordable) cars in
> parades & car shows, except perhaps a few Mini Coopers or a Jeep? �Does
> anyone really look back at their first car and wish they once again had
> that Civic, Caravan, Corolla, Prius, Malibu?
gee I have 2 90s caravans and am happy. will buy another someday.
caravans are great for hauling, for my business, and comfy for long
trips
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Nazi t-shirt sold at Walmart
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b367e5bdf9d178bd?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 1:03 pm
From: Topaz
Here is part of Hitler's speech at Rheinmetall-Borsig Works, Berlin,
on December 10, 1940:
"In this Anglo-French world there exists, as it were, democracy, which
means the rule of the people by the people. Now the people must
possess some means of giving expression to their thoughts or their
wishes. Examining this problem more closely, we see that the people
themselves have originally no convictions of their own. Their
convictions are formed, of course, just as everywhere else. The
decisive question is who enlightens the people, who educates them? In
those countries, it is actually capital that rules; that is, nothing
more than a clique of a few hundred men who possess untold wealth and,
as a consequence of the peculiar structure of their national life, are
more or less independent and free. They say: 'Here we have liberty.'
By this they mean, above all, an uncontrolled economy, and by an
uncontrolled economy, the freedom not only to acquire capital but to
make absolutely free use of it. That means freedom from national
control or control by the people both in the acquisition of capital
and in its employment. This is really what they mean when they speak
of liberty. These capitalists create their own press and then speak of
the 'freedom of the press.'
In reality, every one of the newspapers has a master, and in every
case this master is the capitalist, the owner. This master, not the
editor, is the one who directs the policy of the paper. If the editor
tries to write other than what suits the master, he is ousted the next
day. This press, which is the absolutely submissive and characterless
slave of the owners, molds public opinion. Public opinion thus
mobilized by them is, in its turn, split up into political parties.
The difference between these parties is as small as it formerly was in
Germany. You know them, of course - the old parties. They were always
one and the same. In Britain matters are usually so arranged that
families are divided up, one member being a conservative, another a
liberal, and a third belonging to the labor party. Actually, all three
sit together as members of the family, decide upon their common
attitude and determine it. A further point is that the 'elected
people' actually form a community which operates and controls all
these organizations. For this reason, the opposition in England is
really always the same, for on all essential matters in which the
opposition has to make itself felt, the parties are always in
agreement. They have one and the same conviction and through the
medium of the press mold public opinion along corresponding lines. One
might well believe that in these countries of liberty and riches, the
people must possess an unlimited degree of prosperity. But no! On the
contrary, it is precisely in these countries that the distress of the
masses is greater than anywhere else. Such is the case in 'rich
Britain.'
She controls sixteen million square miles. In India, for example, a
hundred million colonial workers with a wretched standard of living
must labor for her. One might think, perhaps, that at least in England
itself every person must have his share of these riches. By no means!
In that country class distinction is the crassest imaginable. There is
poverty - incredible poverty - on the one side, and equally incredible
wealth on the other. They have not solved a single problem. The
workmen of that country which possesses more than one-sixth of the
globe and of the world's natural resources dwell in misery, and the
masses of the people are poorly clad.. In a country which ought to
have more than enough bread and every sort of fruit, we find millions
of the lower classes who have not even enough to fill their stomachs,
and go about hungry. A nation which could provide work for the whole
world must acknowledge the fact that it cannot even abolish
unemployment at home. For decades this rich Britain has had two and a
half million unemployed; rich America, ten to thirteen millions, year
after year; France, six, seven, and eight hundred thousand. Well, my
fellow-countrymen - what then are we to say about ourselves?
It is self-evident that where this democracy rules, the people as such
are not taken into consideration at all. The only thing that matters
is the existence of a few hundred gigantic capitalists who own all the
factories and their stock and, through them, control the people. The
masses of the people do not interest them in the least. They are
interested in them just as were our bourgeois parties in former times
- only when elections are being held, when they need votes. Otherwise,
the life of the masses is a matter of complete indifference to them.
To this must be added the difference in education. Is it not ludicrous
to hear a member of the British Labor Party - who, of course, as a
member of the Opposition is officially paid by the government - say:
'When the war is over, we will do something in social respects'?
It is the members of Parliament who are the directors of the business
concerns - just as used to be the case with us. But we have abolished
all that. A member of the Reichstag cannot belong to a Board of
Directors, except as a purely honorary member. He is prohibited from
accepting any emolument, financial or otherwise. This is not the case
in other countries.
They reply: 'That is why our form of government is sacred to us.' I
can well believe it, for that form of government certainly pays very
well.. But whether it is sacred to the mass of the people as well is
another matter.
The people as a whole definitely suffer. I do not consider it possible
in the long run for one man to work and toil for a whole year in
return for ridiculous wages, while another jumps into an express train
once a year and pockets enormous sums. Such conditions are a disgrace.
On the other hand, we National Socialists equally oppose the theory
that all men are equals. Today, when a man of genius makes some
astounding invention and enormously benefits his country by his
brains, we pay him his due, for he has really accomplished something
and been of use to his country. However, we hope to make it impossible
for idle drones to inhabit this country.
I could continue to cite examples indefinitely. The fact remains that
two worlds are face to face with one another. Our opponents are quite
right when they say: 'Nothing can reconcile us to the National
Socialist world.' How could a narrow-minded capitalist ever agree to
my principles? It would be easier for the Devil to go to church and
cross himself with holy water than for these people to comprehend the
ideas which are accepted facts to us today. But we have solved our
problems.
To take another instance where we are condemned: They claim to be
fighting for the maintenance of the gold standard as the currency
basis. That I can well believe, for the gold is in their hands. We,
too, once had gold, but it was stolen and extorted from us. When I
came to power, it was not malice which made me abandon the gold
standard. Germany simply had no gold left. Consequently, quitting the
gold standard presented no difficulties, for it is always easy to part
with what one does not have. We had no gold. We had no foreign
exchange. They had all been stolen and extorted from us during the
previous fifteen years. But, my fellow countrymen, I did not regret
it, for we have constructed our economic system on a wholly different
basis. In our eyes, gold is not of value in itself. It is only an
agent by which nations can be suppressed and dominated.
When I took over the government, I had only one hope on which to
build, namely, the efficiency and ability of the German nation and the
German workingman; the intelligence of our inventors, engineers,
technicians, chemists, and so forth. I built on the strength which
animates our economic system. One simple question faced me: Are we to
perish because we have no gold; am I to believe in a phantom which
spells our destruction? I championed the opposite opinion: Even though
we have no gold, we have capacity for work.
The German capacity for work is our gold and our capital, and with
this gold I can compete successfully with any power in the world. We
want to live in houses which have to be built. Hence, the workers must
build them, and the raw materials required must be procured by work.
My whole economic system has been built up on the conception of work.
We have solved our problems while, amazingly enough, the capitalist
countries and their currencies have suffered bankruptcy.
Sterling can find no market today. Throw it at any one and he will
step aside to avoid being hit. But our Reichsmark, which is backed by
no gold, has remained stable. Why? It has no gold cover; it is backed
by you and by your work. You have helped me to keep the mark stable.
German currency, with no gold coverage, is worth more today than gold
itself. It signifies unceasing production. This we owe to the German
farmer, who has worked from daybreak till nightfall. This we owe to
the German worker, who has given us his whole strength. The whole
problem has been solved in one instant, as if by magic.
My dear friends, if I had stated publicly eight or nine years ago: 'In
seven or eight years the problem of how to provide work for the
unemployed will be solved, and the problem then will be where to find
workers,' I should have harmed my cause. Every one would have
declared: 'The man is mad. It is useless to talk to him, much less to
support him. Nobody should vote for him. He is a fantastic creature.'
Today, however, all this has come true. Today, the only question for
us is where to find workers. That, my fellow countrymen, is the
blessing which work brings.
Work alone can create new work; money cannot create work. Work alone
can create values, values with which to reward those who work. The
work of one man makes it possible for another to live and continue to
work. And when we have mobilized the working capacity of our people to
its utmost, each individual worker will receive more and more of the
world's goods.
We have incorporated seven million unemployed into our economic
system; we have transformed another six millions from part-time into
full-time workers; we are even working overtime. And all this is paid
for in cash in Reichsmarks which maintained their value in peacetime.
In wartime we had to ration its purchasing capacity, not in order to
devalue it, but simply to earmark a portion of our industry for war
production to guide us to victory in the struggle for the future of
Germany...
One thing is certain, my fellow-countrymen: All in all, we have today
a state with a different economic and political orientation from that
of the Western democracies.
Well, it must now be made possible for the British worker to travel.
It is remarkable that they should at last hit upon the idea that
traveling should be something not for millionaires alone, but for the
people too. In this country, the problem was solved some time ago. In
the other countries - as is shown by their whole economic structure -
the selfishness of a relatively small stratum rules under the mask of
democracy. This stratum is neither checked nor controlled by anyone.
It is therefore understandable if an Englishman says: 'We do not want
our world to be subject to any sort of collapse.' Quite so. The
English know full well that their Empire is not menaced by us. But
they say quite truthfully: 'If the ideas that are popular in Germany
are not completely eliminated, they might become popular among our own
people, and that is the danger. We do not want this.' It would do no
harm if they did become popular there, but these people are just as
narrow-minded as many once were in Germany. In this respect they
prefer to remain bound to their conservative methods. They do not wish
to depart from them, and do not conceal the fact.
They say, 'The German methods do not suit us at all.'
And what are these methods? You know, my comrades, that I have
destroyed nothing in Germany. I have always proceeded very carefully,
because I believe - as I have already said - that we cannot afford to
wreck anything. I am proud that the Revolution of 1933 was brought to
pass without breaking a single windowpane. Nevertheless, we have
wrought enormous changes.
I wish to put before you a few basic facts: The first is that in the
capitalistic democratic world the most important principle of economy
is that the people exist for trade and industry, and that these in
turn exist for capital. We have reversed this principle by making
capital exist for trade and industry, and trade and industry exist for
the people. In other words, the people come first. Everything else is
but a means to this end. When an economic system is not capable of
feeding and clothing a people, then it is bad, regardless of whether a
few hundred people say: 'As far as I am concerned it is good,
excellent; my dividends are splendid.'
However, the dividends do not interest me at all. Here we have drawn
the line. They may then retort: 'Well, look here, that is just what we
mean. You jeopardize liberty.'
Yes, certainly, we jeopardize the liberty to profiteer at the expense
of the community, and, if necessary, we even abolish it. British
capitalists, to mention only one instance, can pocket dividends of 76,
80, 95, 140, and even 160 per cent from their armament industry.
Naturally they say: 'If the German methods grow apace and should prove
victorious, this sort of thing will stop.'
They are perfectly right. I should never tolerate such a state of
affairs. In my eyes, a 6 per cent dividend is sufficient. Even from
this 6 per cent we deduct one-half and, as for the rest, we must have
definite proof that it is invested in the interest of the country as a
whole. In other words, no individual has the right to dispose
arbitrarily of money which ought to be invested for the good of the
country. If he disposes of it sensibly, well and good; if not, the
National Socialist state will intervene.
To take another instance, besides dividends there are the so-called
directors' fees. You probably have no idea how appallingly active a
board of directors is. Once a year its members have to make a journey.
They have to go to the station, get into a first-class compartment and
travel to some place or other. They arrive at an appointed office at
about 10 or 11 A.M. There they must listen to a report. When the
report has been read, they must listen to a few comments on it. They
may be kept in their seats until 1 P.M. or even 2. Shortly after 2
o'clock they rise from their chairs and set out on their homeward
journey, again, of course, traveling first class. It is hardly
surprising that they claim 3,000, 4,000, or even 5,000 as compensation
for this: Our directors formerly did the same - for what a lot of time
it costs them! Such effort had to be made worth while! Of course, we
have got rid of all this nonsense, which was merely veiled
profiteering and even bribery.
In Germany, the people, without any doubt, decide their existence.
They determine the principles of their government. In fact it has been
possible in this country to incorporate many of the broad masses into
the National Socialist party, that gigantic organization embracing
millions and having millions of officials drawn from the people
themselves. This principle is extended to the highest ranks.
For the first time in German history, we have a state which has
absolutely abolished all social prejudices in regard to political
appointments as well as in private life. I myself am the best proof of
this. Just imagine: I am not even a lawyer, and yet I am your Leader!
It is not only in ordinary life that we have succeeded in appointing
the best among the people for every position. We have
Reichsstatthalters who were formerly agricultural laborers or
locksmiths. Yes, we have even succeeded in breaking down prejudice in
a place where it was most deep-seated -in the fighting forces.
Thousands of officers are being promoted from the ranks today. We have
done away with prejudice. We have generals who were ordinary soldiers
and noncommissioned officers twenty-two and twenty-three years ago. In
this instance, too, we have overcome all social obstacles. Thus, we
are building up our life for the future.
As you know we have countless schools, national political educational
establishments, Adolf Hitler schools, and so on. To these schools we
send gifted children of the broad masses, children of working men,
farmers' sons whose parents could never have afforded a higher
education for their children. We take them in gradually. They are
educated here, sent to the Ordensburgen, to the Party, later to take
their place in the State where they will some day fill the highest
posts....
Opposed to this there stands a completely different world. In the
world the highest ideal is the struggle for wealth, for capital, for
family possessions, for personal egoism; everything else is merely a
means to such ends. Two worlds confront each other today. We know
perfectly well that if we are defeated in this war it would not only
be the end of our National Socialist work of reconstruction, but the
end of the German people as a whole. For without its powers of
coordination, the German people would starve. Today the masses
dependent on us number 120 or 130 millions, of which 85 millions alone
are our own people. We remain ever aware of this fact.
On the other hand, that other world says: 'If we lose, our world-wide
capitalistic system will collapse. For it is we who save hoarded gold.
It is lying in our cellars and will lose its value. If the idea that
work is the decisive factor spreads abroad, what will happen to us? We
shall have bought our gold in vain. Our whole claim to world dominion
can then no longer be maintained. The people will do away with their
dynasties of high finance. They will present their social claims, and
the whole world system will be overthrown.'
I can well understand that they declare: 'Let us prevent this at all
costs; it must be prevented.' They can see exactly how our nation has
been reconstructed. You see it clearly. For instance, there we see a
state ruled by a numerically small upper class. They send their sons
to their own schools, to Eton. We have Adolf Hitler schools or
national political educational establishments. On the one hand, the
sons of plutocrats, financial magnates; on the other, the children of
the people. Etonians and Harrovians exclusively in leading positions
over there; in this country, men of the people in charge of the State.
These are the two worlds. I grant that one of the two must succumb.
Yes, one or the other. But if we were to succumb, the German people
would succumb with us. If the other were to succumb, I am convinced
that the nations will become free for the first time. We are not
fighting individual Englishmen or Frenchmen. We have nothing against
them. For years I proclaimed this as the aim of my foreign policy. We
demanded nothing of them, nothing at all. When they started the war
they could not say: 'We are doing so because the Germans asked this or
that of us.' They said, on the contrary: 'We are declaring war on you
because the German system of Government does not suit us; because we
fear it might spread to our own people.' For that reason they are
carrying on this war. They wanted to blast the German nation back to
the time of Versailles, to the indescribable misery of those days. But
they have made a great mistake.
If in this war everything points to the fact that gold is fighting
against work, capitalism against peoples, and reaction against the
progress of humanity, then work, the peoples, and progress will be
victorious. Even the support of the Jewish race will not avail the
others.
I have seen all this coming for years. What did I ask of the other
world? Nothing but the right for Germans to reunite and the
restoration of all that had been taken from them - nothing which would
have meant a loss to the other nations. How often have I stretched out
my hand to them? Ever since I came into power. I had not the slightest
wish to rearm.
For what do armaments mean? They absorb so much labor. It was I who
regarded work as being of decisive importance, who wished to employ
the working capacity of Germany for other plans. I think the news is
already out that, after all, I have some fairly important plans in my
mind, vast and splendid plans for my people. It is my ambition to make
the German people rich and to make the German homeland beautiful. I
want the standard of living of the individual raised. I want us to
have the most beautiful and the finest civilization. I should like the
theater - in fact, the whole of German civilization - to benefit all
the people and not to exist only for the upper ten thousand, as is the
case in England.
The plans which we had in mind were tremendous, and I needed workers
in order to realize them. Armament only deprives me of workers. I made
proposals to limit armaments. I was ridiculed. The only answer I
received was 'No.' I proposed the limitation of certain types of
armament. That was refused. I proposed that airplanes should be
altogether eliminated from warfare. That also was refused. I suggested
that bombers should be limited. That was refused. They said: 'That is
just how we wish to force our regime upon you.' ...
http://www.ihr.org/ http://www.natvan.com
http://www.thebirdman.org http://www.nsm88.org
http://wsi.matriots.com/jews.html
==============================================================================
TOPIC: how 'bout a "new' 1957 VW?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f5f1ebefb4f9a6ac?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 1:42 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
MSfortune@mcpmail.com wrote
> 'nam vet. <georgewks...@humboldt1.com> wrote
>> http://www.jps-motorsports.com/Gallery/source/blkoutlaw.html
> It's a VW, but not a Beetle.
Correct.
> Either way, that old VW is not very functional today.
Wrong.
> It's a death trap
Wrong.
> and the mileage is not all that good as I recall. I think a Beetle got about
> 25 m.p.g.m,
Wrong.
> which was good then, but not now.
Wrong.
> I liked the idea of being able to overhaul the engine in the living
> room and the clutches were bullet proof. I can't live in the past.
You have always been, and always will be, completely and utterly irrelevant.
> I believe I could drive something much newer at a lower cost per mile.
That would be at a higher cost per mile.
> I get close to 20 M.P.G. on my GMC truck.
Pathetic.
> Parts are plentiful and fairly priced. It's a beast and people get out of my
> way.
Thats because of the rabid bloodshot eyes and flecks of foam about the lips.
> The next vehicle will probably be much smaller.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 1:57 pm
From: MSfortune@mcpmail.com
On Dec 14, 4:42 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> MSfort...@mcpmail.com wrote
>
> > 'nam vet. <georgewks...@humboldt1.com> wrote
> >>http://www.jps-motorsports.com/Gallery/source/blkoutlaw.html
> > It's a VW, but not a Beetle.
>
> Correct.
>
> > Either way, that old VW is not very functional today.
>
> Wrong.
>
> > It's a death trap
>
> Wrong.
>
> > and the mileage is not all that good as I recall. I think a Beetle got about
> > 25 m.p.g.m,
>
> Wrong.
>
> > which was good then, but not now.
>
> Wrong.
>
> > I liked the idea of being able to overhaul the engine in the living
> > room and the clutches were bullet proof. I can't live in the past.
>
> You have always been, and always will be, completely and utterly irrelevant.
>
> > I believe I could drive something much newer at a lower cost per mile.
>
> That would be at a higher cost per mile.
>
> > I get close to 20 M.P.G. on my GMC truck.
>
> Pathetic.
>
> > Parts are plentiful and fairly priced. It's a beast and people get out of my
> > way.
>
> Thats because of the rabid bloodshot eyes and flecks of foam about the lips.
>
> > The next vehicle will probably be much smaller.
All bait and no hooks!
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Customer suffering diarrhea shits herself because Jo-Ann Fabrics would
not let her use the bathroom.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3492db825691db70?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 1:47 pm
From: MSfortune@mcpmail.com
Patriot Games wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 09:05:08 -0800 (PST), ultimauw@gmail.com wrote:
> >http://consumerist.com/consumer/worst-customer-service-ever/jo+ann-fabrics-refuses-to-let-customer-use-bathroom-even-as-she-suffers-diarrhea-right-in-front-of-them-274441.php
>
> Bwahahahahahahahhahaha!!!!!
>
> I wouldn't let the beast shit up my restroom either!!
CLEANUP IN AISLES 28, 29, 30, 32, 36 AND 40.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Saving Money on Calendars
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9b326729403ee2be?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 14 2008 2:09 pm
From: Jamie
> I like the idea of saving them, but then I wouldn't find the right one
> until too late, and would have to wait another 11 years to use it.
> Maybe that works for somebody who's more organized than me.
Actually, 6 or 11 years for common years (those that aren't leap
years) As someone pointed out, the most recent identical-date year was
1998, 11 years before 2009. 1987 was 11 years before 198, but 1981
was six years before 1987. That's as far back as I know on those
dates. If you have a calendar from 2005, you can use it again in
2011, since the dates will be the same for those two years. The last
identical-date year prior to 2005 was 1994 and prior to that, 1983 and
1977.
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